Its much more important for a MMO to make new players interested in playing the game. There will always be old veterans that leave and new players that start playing.
And if the number of new players is greater than veterans leaving the game will continue to grow. And it will be good for profits...
Even if Blizzard did everything to make those veterans happy most of them would leave anyway. Because they are bored and they are looking for a new game... And that is normal after playing the game for years.
People that dont like the new features, that the game is linear and is on rails, the virtual world is less important, you stand in a city and wait for instances and so on. They are right. And people that feel that way should try to find a new game.
But Blizzard probably think its what new players want. And the games future depend on new players.
Personally I dont like it. And prefer a less linear game with a living virtual world based on exploring and adventure. But I can also understand why Blizzard is doing it.
Also I think ghostcrawler and the dev team are making some mistakes. And the game could probably be even more successful with better developers.
WOW will have high subs as long as it can be bot farmed in China. Realistically if wow were growing that fast in the states and Europe then we would have all noticed a huge swell in subs, which I have not seen really since BC and I was on alot of servers and know people still on multiple servers. Chances are even if the US servers went dead WOW would still have about 8 to 9 million subs. Then again the Asian market makes up a large number of players on many mmorpgs most peopel wouldnt be caught dead playing becuase the asian playstyle is about grind grind grind. The only way to beat wow in that market is to have a game with more grindable eye candy.
As a game itself WOW is a mish mash of random garbage from Ghostcrawlers mind, but they still offer magical rainbow unicorn mounts, and He man mounts, not to mention the horned bunny rabbits and beer drinking goats, so their gonna be around for a while.
WOW will have high subs as long as it can be bot farmed in China. Realistically if wow were growing that fast in the states and Europe then we would have all noticed a huge swell in subs, which I have not seen really since BC and I was on alot of servers and know people still on multiple servers. Chances are even if the US servers went dead WOW would still have about 8 to 9 million subs. Then again the Asian market makes up a large number of players on many mmorpgs most peopel wouldnt be caught dead playing becuase the asian playstyle is about grind grind grind. The only way to beat wow in that market is to have a game with more grindable eye candy.
As a game itself WOW is a mish mash of random garbage from Ghostcrawlers mind, but they still offer magical rainbow unicorn mounts, and He man mounts, not to mention the horned bunny rabbits and beer drinking goats, so their gonna be around for a while.
China only has around 9 % of the above mentioned 1.4 billion dollars in 2010 (up from 1.1 billion in 2009).
This means 91% of the yearly revenue comes from us, the western world and some other parts. Some parts in the world did add servers in 2010. Like Russia.
WOW will have high subs as long as it can be bot farmed in China. Realistically if wow were growing that fast in the states and Europe then we would have all noticed a huge swell in subs, which I have not seen really since BC and I was on alot of servers and know people still on multiple servers. Chances are even if the US servers went dead WOW would still have about 8 to 9 million subs. Then again the Asian market makes up a large number of players on many mmorpgs most peopel wouldnt be caught dead playing becuase the asian playstyle is about grind grind grind. The only way to beat wow in that market is to have a game with more grindable eye candy.
As a game itself WOW is a mish mash of random garbage from Ghostcrawlers mind, but they still offer magical rainbow unicorn mounts, and He man mounts, not to mention the horned bunny rabbits and beer drinking goats, so their gonna be around for a while.
China only has around 9 % of the above mentioned 1.4 billion dollars in 2010 (up from 1.1 billion in 2009).
This means 91% of the yearly revenue comes from us, the western world and some other parts. Some parts in the world did add servers in 2010. Like Russia.
I think he was talking about subs, not revenues. Someone made a calculation a while ago that that amount of revenue could be reached with half of the total number of subs being western subs and that the Chinese subs were about 5-6 million, and growing.
As for the 1.4 billion dollars, I think that's including the 4.7 million sales of CATA.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
WOW will have high subs as long as it can be bot farmed in China. Realistically if wow were growing that fast in the states and Europe then we would have all noticed a huge swell in subs, which I have not seen really since BC and I was on alot of servers and know people still on multiple servers. Chances are even if the US servers went dead WOW would still have about 8 to 9 million subs. Then again the Asian market makes up a large number of players on many mmorpgs most peopel wouldnt be caught dead playing becuase the asian playstyle is about grind grind grind. The only way to beat wow in that market is to have a game with more grindable eye candy.
As a game itself WOW is a mish mash of random garbage from Ghostcrawlers mind, but they still offer magical rainbow unicorn mounts, and He man mounts, not to mention the horned bunny rabbits and beer drinking goats, so their gonna be around for a while.
China only has around 9 % of the above mentioned 1.4 billion dollars in 2010 (up from 1.1 billion in 2009).
This means 91% of the yearly revenue comes from us, the western world and some other parts. Some parts in the world did add servers in 2010. Like Russia.
I think he was talking about subs, not revenues. Someone made a calculation a while ago that that amount of revenue could be reached with half of the total number of subs being western subs and that the Chinese subs were about 5-6 million, and growing.
As for the 1.4 billion dollars, I think that's including the 4.7 million sales of CATA.
I see no point of difference. If you would take roughly 12 dollars per month X times 7.000.000 X 12 = 1080 million dollars per year for the western part.
China has around 10% or our salaries in the west/ So add 100 million dollars, thats around 1200 million dollars.
The rest of the 1.45 billion (250 million) comes from the CATA and relaunch of basic WOW box sales and shop items. Blizzard made over 1.6 billion for all their games (wow - sc2 - older ones).
No one is disagreeing.
Perhaps a small downward correction as for the subscription cards because they are sold through retail and such countries as Russia etc they are cheaper. I guess a subscription card is slight less than 10 dollars for Blizzard itself, if they are sold through retail.
So the bill fits: 7.000.000 outside of China and 5.000.000 on China mainland. First month sales only ( financial report closed Dec 31) were 4.700.000 and that for an expansion that's not even needed for new players and in some parts are not sold (Korea café internets).
Except it isn't 12 dollar, but iirc 13-15 dollar in the US and 15-17.5 dollar in Europe (euro > dollar) for a subscription, which would mean that with 6 million subs you already have 1080 million. But you're right, the differences aren't that much.
A better check will be the Q1 report, when there isn't any added sales of expansions or other games.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Except it isn't 12 dollar, but iirc 13-15 dollar in the US and 15-17.5 dollar in Europe (euro > dollar) for a subscription, which would mean that with 6 million subs you already have 1080 million. But you're right, the differences aren't that much.
A better check will be the Q1 report, when there isn't any added sales of expansions or other games.
And what do you do with South America and Russia and the 50 % sales though retail of those cards ?
Retail consumes as much as 40% of what Blizzard gets for these cards. So even a western EU card sold through retail brings in hardly 12 dollars for Blizzard's revenue...
So my guess of 12 dollars worldwide for a sub was VERY generous wasn't it ?
Edit: My honest guess? I think Blizzard already overshot 13 M players, but they are playing it on safe to avoid a downward trend in the coming year.
Why? Because China got already ICC 3 weeks ago. That was the final battle of Wotlk already. But they play it "safe".
Revenue was simply too big - analists had a shot at 1.4+billion instead of 1.6billion (btw they already deferred 250 M to next year to "spread out" for taxes).
Lol. The topic has you really riled up, eh? Relax, no one is attacking your favorite game, it's just reflecting upon it.
In the end, few people really care about sub numbers or not, it doesn't influence their gameplay. I do find it interesting to speculate about figures and from what they consist, but not to the point to end up in an unending debate about 'who is more right', especially since there are no hard figures to prove anything solid so it remains nothing but speculating. You can't prove that I'm wrong, and I can't prove that you're wrong. To keep a discussion running with the same guesswork, not really my thing.
I leave that to the real haters, trolls and fan(boi)s
edit: if they reached the 13m, I guess we'll find out in the months ahead, it wouldn't be a thing they'd keep silent about. Also, we should see it reflected in the Q1 figures. So it'll be interesting to compare then with former figures and speculate with new info.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Lol. The topic has you really riled up, eh? Relax, no one is attacking your favorite game, it's just reflecting upon it.
In the end, few people really care about sub numbers or not, it doesn't influence their gameplay. I do find it interesting to speculate about figures and from what they consistm but not to the point to end up in an unending debate about 'who is more right', especially since there are no hard figures to prove anything solid so it remains nothing but speculating. You can't prove that I'm wrong, and I can't prove that you're wrong. To keep a discussion running with the same guesswork, not really my thing.
I leave that to the real haters, trolls and fan(boi)s
The topic was "falling apart"'. Getting from 1.19 Billion to 1.45 Billion over 2010. is a strange conclusion...to that end.
edit: if they reached the 13m, I guess we'll find out in the months ahead, it wouldn't be a thing they'd keep silent about. Also, we should see it reflected in the Q1 figures. So it'll be interesting to compare then with former figures and speculate with new info.
ICC was launched in China 2 weeks ago (at the eve of China's New year). Just telling.
The topic was "falling apart"'. Getting from 1.19 Billion to 1.45 Billion over 2010. is a strange conclusion...to that end.
That was the topic.
Too much doomsaying, not only for WoW, other MMO's as well, it seems (some) people like talking negatively about games more than talking positively/constructively about them, whether that's WoW, Rift, TOR, DCUO, whatever.
If WoW is "falling apart" we should be able to see that retroactively in the figures of this year. If it's not to be seen in the figures, then it's not falling apart. Simple as that.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The topic was "falling apart"'. Getting from 1.19 Billion to 1.45 Billion over 2010. is a strange conclusion...to that end.
That was the topic.
Too much doomsaying, not only for WoW, other MMO's as well, it seems (some) people like talking negatively about games more than talking positively/constructively about them, whether that's WoW, Rift, TOR, DCUO, whatever.
If WoW is "falling apart" we should be able to see that retroactively in the figures of this year. If it's not to be seen in the figures, then it's not falling apart. Simple as that.
As far as we can tell anyway. We can never be 100% sure if its falling apart or not unless we work for Blizzard.
It matters very little anyway, you aren't going to be playing with 30,000 people let alone 12 million.
While it doesn't give good picture of the WoW community as a whole and the bored/anti-WoW/unsubscribed people might be louder, it still gives some kind of idea of... something. I'll follow WoW's situation with great interest when some of the upcoming high budget games hit the market. 'Falling apart' is huge overstatement though.
LOL @ last one: 2 out of 3 polls with 300 people...with a title that attracts 80% haters on auto - mode ...
If you would look at these forums you would think WOW was dead back in 2005 when it had a revenue of 500 million dollars.
Since then it tripled its revenue.
I look to the top of this website and see 188 users logged in...
When are people going to realise 12.000.000 people is something like Portugal and Ireland combined.
It is the same thing as asking one small street what they think about a community of 12.000.000 players, with a big red sign "please leave a negative feedback here".
Did you read what I wrote? Of course it doesn't say much about what all those those few million people think about the game- There's probably huge amount of people who don't read any WoW related forums at all and happily playing the game without knowing there's other similar games as well. It is few hundred votes, though, on an active WoW fansite, which many casual players read too. It may say something, but not much, and it's very possible that there's higher chance for the haters to be louder, which I already said, but you choose to ignore. Similarly the fanboys may be defending the game, but I agree that probably haters are little louder.
Some people wish it did, but for WoW to fall apart someone would need to nuke Blizzard's offices. WoW will never fall apart unless some radical change completely changes WoW. EQ did not fall apart in 11 years, WoW is the same. The big games don't suddenly die, they keep going for years.
Lots of people enjoyed the easier content in LK. Even so, most of them didn't down YS when he was current, and didn't down LK normal mode even at the 30% buff (and doing him on 10 man with 25 man gear).
For these people, the difficulty of the end game content in Cataclysm is such that that content might as well not exist for them. They have no chance to do it at their demonstrated skill level. Should they get better? They didn't get better in WotLK, even when it would have allowed them to clear content.
So, no, these people (who make up most of the player population) will not get better enough to do Cata's raids. Of course they are getting bored, and increasing numbers of them are quitting. I suspect lots of them saw the writing on the wall even before Cata released and didn't bother to get the expansion.
Daeity (who looks like he has some mole feeding him internal information) reports Cata sales missed Blizzard's internal targets:
"- Cataclysm sales were supposed to push them over $600 million in revenue (for Cataclysm sales alone, excluding new subs and older WoW game purchases), but they earned $544 million instead. GAAP Revenue was $340 million for this most recent quarter, but they're deferring $204 million to next quarter. Nice way to show a constant revenue growth each quarter. =]
- Earnings basically showed those 4.7 million Cataclysm sales over 3 months [...]. Since they were expecting to earn about $320 million (if Cataclysm never launched) for the quarter, and that $544 million included all new WoW/TBC/WOTLK sales as well, there doesn't appear to be much of an increase in new subscriptions at all. Cataclysm was supposed to be the expansion pack to bring back all of the old players, but the impact has been minimal."
"In regards to new Cataclysm realms, it appears that everything was all setup internally for new realm deployments too. But, the "Cataclysm experiment" failed to meet Blizzard's expectations and it looks like it has actually resulted in a reverse flow of subscriptions unfortunately. =["
First, I heard Blizzard lost over half it’s subscriber base bringing it somewhere in the 5.5 range. Then, with Cata, I have many friends stating that their tired of the same old grind and have either canceled their subscriptions or are in the process of it. Now if all this wasn’t unsettling enough, we have entire guilds that have pre-ordered Rift.
Does anyone know if Blizzard did in fact loss a good portion of their subs? Anyone know if future WoW expansions will be anything else than level some more? Any info helpful.
You "heard"? From whom did you hear that? Probably from one of the same people you came here asking questions of that ould have no way to accuratly answer.
##Best SWTOR of 2011 Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011 Originally posted by daveospice "this game looks like crap?"
Normally I don´t want to post it but fine , here is what they have to do to fix WoW again
1 Put the technical talent tree back so what if peopel get more powerfull , now its back again to TBC game , EPICS >then all
Wotlk change that by making skill 45% epics 55% , now its back to EPICS 85% and skill 15% (since everybody is pressing the damn same buttons)
2 stop that stupid cheographic dancing of 1 seconds and 3 seconds , just ban the freaking adons that makes it easy mode.
Now you created a game that people who refuse to play without adons , are forced to play adon games .
You know what make 3D huds then possible and standard if continueing down this stupid 1 second -3 second dance routine
The game is not about skills its about memory gaming , and relfex acting in raid .
This alone shows totally no innovation from developers , no addiction with reality just developers ego pride .
IF a game is made for casuals like the target group is intended ban the freaking addons , if the game is made for hardcore
then ad the adons into the basic game . now it only shows sloppy lazy designs , that most gamers are needed to have DBM .
IF DBM is needed , then it should have been inserted into basic package of wow .
3 Stop lying to people , if game is fun it suppose to be fun , not watching stupid bars goes up , Hordir rep said it all
Now in the new expansion you get nothing but hordir rep grind .
Here these are free improvements that Blizz should have implemented and lessons learned from WOTLK the game that brought them the "12 million " why cause Wotlk was made for the casual as well as hardcore .
Now its a game thats made for the dummies and getting boring even hardcore are bored .
Normally I don´t want to post it but fine , here is what they have to do to fix WoW again
1 Put the technical talent tree back so what if peopel get more powerfull , now its back again to TBC game , EPICS >then all
Wotlk change that by making skill 45% epics 55% , now its back to EPICS 85% and skill 15% (since everybody is pressing the damn same buttons)
2 stop that stupid cheographic dancing of 1 seconds and 3 seconds , just ban the freaking adons that makes it easy mode.
Now you created a game that people who refuse to play without adons , are forced to play adon games .
You know what make 3D huds then possible and standard if continueing down this stupid 1 second -3 second dance routine
The game is not about skills its about memory gaming , and relfex acting in raid .
This alone shows totally no innovation from developers , no addiction with reality just developers ego pride .
IF a game is made for casuals like the target group is intended ban the freaking addons , if the game is made for hardcore
then ad the adons into the basic game . now it only shows sloppy lazy designs , that most gamers are needed to have DBM .
IF DBM is needed , then it should have been inserted into basic package of wow .
3 Stop lying to people , if game is fun it suppose to be fun , not watching stupid bars goes up , Hordir rep said it all
Now in the new expansion you get nothing but hordir rep grind .
Here these are free improvements that Blizz should have implemented and lessons learned from WOTLK the game that brought them the "12 million " why cause Wotlk was made for the casual as well as hardcore .
Now its a game thats made for the dummies and getting boring even hardcore are bored .
Allow me to sum up my collegue's rant.
World of Warcraft use to be about pure skill. As it was in Everquest back in the good ol' days. You didn't have mods/addons there and you had to learn everything as you went along. But now, there is a mod for everything. The only thing missing is the mod to get you a drink while you play World of Warcraft. The skill it took to become a healer use to add that depth to the game. The tank having to truly watch the mobs and know if they were about to peel off to attack the healer. And the DPS having to be careful to not overdo things.
But that is no longer the case where speed and purplez are now everything and the only way you win is via epics and mods, not skill.
And as far as the casuals go, yes, its seems the scales have tipped a bit too far the other way. As much of a casual as I am, even I have to admit the game has become...too dumbed down. So now the casuals are bored and the hardcore are ho-humming about the fights being too easy. Bring back the skill
Wow is fine, you are all in the minority, most players out there don't read forums or go to outside websites, they don't think "whats wrong with my game?" they just have fun. Which is why WoW is doing so very well.
The fact that you are on this website means you are in a minority of players already.
Implying WoW is having problems or that WoW needs to "fix" itself is also folly, if it were broken it wouldn't be successful which it is.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't mean that you are not alone in that sentiment, you may insist that SURELY someone else feels the same way, but that does not make it true.
Wow is fine, you are all in the minority, most players out there don't read forums or go to outside websites, they don't think "whats wrong with my game?" they just have fun. Which is why WoW is doing so very well.
The fact that you are on this website means you are in a minority of players already.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't mean that you are not alone in that sentiment, you may insist that SURELY someone else feels the same way, but that does not make it true.
Generalizing in any way is always stupid, always.
Agree. WoW seems to be doing quite alright.
An argument can be held that how the gameplay is now isn't to the taste of some groups of players, and that it was maybe better in the past. But that's no where near WoW 'falling apart'
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
An argument can be held that how the gameplay is now isn't to the taste of some groups of players, and that it was maybe better in the past. But that's no where near WoW 'falling apart'
I agree but that has been said every time they release any patch, content update, or ex pack that provides sweeping changes to the game. I mean my problem with all this doomsaying is that it happens every time anything happens at all, good or bad.
Its like we all take turns being chicken little and screaming about the latest disaster that will doom us all.
Edit: Example: LFD when it was introduced, or how about when heroic's in Wrath dropped purples? Just two off the top of my head.
Comments
Its much more important for a MMO to make new players interested in playing the game. There will always be old veterans that leave and new players that start playing.
And if the number of new players is greater than veterans leaving the game will continue to grow. And it will be good for profits...
Even if Blizzard did everything to make those veterans happy most of them would leave anyway. Because they are bored and they are looking for a new game... And that is normal after playing the game for years.
People that dont like the new features, that the game is linear and is on rails, the virtual world is less important, you stand in a city and wait for instances and so on. They are right. And people that feel that way should try to find a new game.
But Blizzard probably think its what new players want. And the games future depend on new players.
Personally I dont like it. And prefer a less linear game with a living virtual world based on exploring and adventure. But I can also understand why Blizzard is doing it.
Also I think ghostcrawler and the dev team are making some mistakes. And the game could probably be even more successful with better developers.
WOW will have high subs as long as it can be bot farmed in China. Realistically if wow were growing that fast in the states and Europe then we would have all noticed a huge swell in subs, which I have not seen really since BC and I was on alot of servers and know people still on multiple servers. Chances are even if the US servers went dead WOW would still have about 8 to 9 million subs. Then again the Asian market makes up a large number of players on many mmorpgs most peopel wouldnt be caught dead playing becuase the asian playstyle is about grind grind grind. The only way to beat wow in that market is to have a game with more grindable eye candy.
As a game itself WOW is a mish mash of random garbage from Ghostcrawlers mind, but they still offer magical rainbow unicorn mounts, and He man mounts, not to mention the horned bunny rabbits and beer drinking goats, so their gonna be around for a while.
China only has around 9 % of the above mentioned 1.4 billion dollars in 2010 (up from 1.1 billion in 2009).
This means 91% of the yearly revenue comes from us, the western world and some other parts. Some parts in the world did add servers in 2010. Like Russia.
I think he was talking about subs, not revenues. Someone made a calculation a while ago that that amount of revenue could be reached with half of the total number of subs being western subs and that the Chinese subs were about 5-6 million, and growing.
As for the 1.4 billion dollars, I think that's including the 4.7 million sales of CATA.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I see no point of difference. If you would take roughly 12 dollars per month X times 7.000.000 X 12 = 1080 million dollars per year for the western part.
China has around 10% or our salaries in the west/ So add 100 million dollars, thats around 1200 million dollars.
The rest of the 1.45 billion (250 million) comes from the CATA and relaunch of basic WOW box sales and shop items. Blizzard made over 1.6 billion for all their games (wow - sc2 - older ones).
No one is disagreeing.
Perhaps a small downward correction as for the subscription cards because they are sold through retail and such countries as Russia etc they are cheaper. I guess a subscription card is slight less than 10 dollars for Blizzard itself, if they are sold through retail.
So the bill fits: 7.000.000 outside of China and 5.000.000 on China mainland. First month sales only ( financial report closed Dec 31) were 4.700.000 and that for an expansion that's not even needed for new players and in some parts are not sold (Korea café internets).
It all is very traceable.
Except it isn't 12 dollar, but iirc 13-15 dollar in the US and 15-17.5 dollar in Europe (euro > dollar) for a subscription, which would mean that with 6 million subs you already have 1080 million. But you're right, the differences aren't that much.
A better check will be the Q1 report, when there isn't any added sales of expansions or other games.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And what do you do with South America and Russia and the 50 % sales though retail of those cards ?
Retail consumes as much as 40% of what Blizzard gets for these cards. So even a western EU card sold through retail brings in hardly 12 dollars for Blizzard's revenue...
So my guess of 12 dollars worldwide for a sub was VERY generous wasn't it ?
Edit: My honest guess? I think Blizzard already overshot 13 M players, but they are playing it on safe to avoid a downward trend in the coming year.
Why? Because China got already ICC 3 weeks ago. That was the final battle of Wotlk already. But they play it "safe".
Revenue was simply too big - analists had a shot at 1.4+billion instead of 1.6billion (btw they already deferred 250 M to next year to "spread out" for taxes).
Lol. The topic has you really riled up, eh? Relax, no one is attacking your favorite game, it's just reflecting upon it.
In the end, few people really care about sub numbers or not, it doesn't influence their gameplay. I do find it interesting to speculate about figures and from what they consist, but not to the point to end up in an unending debate about 'who is more right', especially since there are no hard figures to prove anything solid so it remains nothing but speculating. You can't prove that I'm wrong, and I can't prove that you're wrong. To keep a discussion running with the same guesswork, not really my thing.
I leave that to the real haters, trolls and fan(boi)s
edit: if they reached the 13m, I guess we'll find out in the months ahead, it wouldn't be a thing they'd keep silent about. Also, we should see it reflected in the Q1 figures. So it'll be interesting to compare then with former figures and speculate with new info.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The topic was "falling apart"'. Getting from 1.19 Billion to 1.45 Billion over 2010. is a strange conclusion...to that end.
That was the topic.
ICC was launched in China 2 weeks ago (at the eve of China's New year). Just telling.
Too much doomsaying, not only for WoW, other MMO's as well, it seems (some) people like talking negatively about games more than talking positively/constructively about them, whether that's WoW, Rift, TOR, DCUO, whatever.
If WoW is "falling apart" we should be able to see that retroactively in the figures of this year. If it's not to be seen in the figures, then it's not falling apart. Simple as that.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
As far as we can tell anyway. We can never be 100% sure if its falling apart or not unless we work for Blizzard.
It matters very little anyway, you aren't going to be playing with 30,000 people let alone 12 million.
Some polls from MMO-champion I stumbled on:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/850999-Has-WoW-gotten-Boring-for-you-latley
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/853842-Did-you-recently-cancel-your-subscription/page6
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/839225-Is-WoW-still-fun
While it doesn't give good picture of the WoW community as a whole and the bored/anti-WoW/unsubscribed people might be louder, it still gives some kind of idea of... something. I'll follow WoW's situation with great interest when some of the upcoming high budget games hit the market. 'Falling apart' is huge overstatement though.
LOL @ last one: 2 out of 3 polls with 300 people...with a title that attracts 80% haters on auto - mode ...
If you would look at these forums you would think WOW was dead back in 2005 when it had a revenue of 500 million dollars.
Since then it tripled its revenue.
I look to the top of this website and see 188 users logged in...
When are people going to realise 12.000.000 people is something like Portugal and Ireland combined.
It is the same thing as asking one small street what they think about a community of 12.000.000 players, with a big red sign "please leave a negative feedback here".
Did you read what I wrote? Of course it doesn't say much about what all those those few million people think about the game- There's probably huge amount of people who don't read any WoW related forums at all and happily playing the game without knowing there's other similar games as well. It is few hundred votes, though, on an active WoW fansite, which many casual players read too. It may say something, but not much, and it's very possible that there's higher chance for the haters to be louder, which I already said, but you choose to ignore. Similarly the fanboys may be defending the game, but I agree that probably haters are little louder.
@OP: Of course not.
Some people wish it did, but for WoW to fall apart someone would need to nuke Blizzard's offices. WoW will never fall apart unless some radical change completely changes WoW. EQ did not fall apart in 11 years, WoW is the same. The big games don't suddenly die, they keep going for years.
Lots of people enjoyed the easier content in LK. Even so, most of them didn't down YS when he was current, and didn't down LK normal mode even at the 30% buff (and doing him on 10 man with 25 man gear).
For these people, the difficulty of the end game content in Cataclysm is such that that content might as well not exist for them. They have no chance to do it at their demonstrated skill level. Should they get better? They didn't get better in WotLK, even when it would have allowed them to clear content.
So, no, these people (who make up most of the player population) will not get better enough to do Cata's raids. Of course they are getting bored, and increasing numbers of them are quitting. I suspect lots of them saw the writing on the wall even before Cata released and didn't bother to get the expansion.
Daeity (who looks like he has some mole feeding him internal information) reports Cata sales missed Blizzard's internal targets:
http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/activision-blizzard-announcements.html
"- Cataclysm sales were supposed to push them over $600 million in revenue (for Cataclysm sales alone, excluding new subs and older WoW game purchases), but they earned $544 million instead. GAAP Revenue was $340 million for this most recent quarter, but they're deferring $204 million to next quarter. Nice way to show a constant revenue growth each quarter. =]
- Earnings basically showed those 4.7 million Cataclysm sales over 3 months [...]. Since they were expecting to earn about $320 million (if Cataclysm never launched) for the quarter, and that $544 million included all new WoW/TBC/WOTLK sales as well, there doesn't appear to be much of an increase in new subscriptions at all. Cataclysm was supposed to be the expansion pack to bring back all of the old players, but the impact has been minimal."
http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/zulgurub-is-back.html
"In regards to new Cataclysm realms, it appears that everything was all setup internally for new realm deployments too. But, the "Cataclysm experiment" failed to meet Blizzard's expectations and it looks like it has actually resulted in a reverse flow of subscriptions unfortunately. =["
You "heard"? From whom did you hear that? Probably from one of the same people you came here asking questions of that ould have no way to accuratly answer.
##Best SWTOR of 2011
Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011
Originally posted by daveospice
"this game looks like crap?"
Normally I don´t want to post it but fine , here is what they have to do to fix WoW again
1 Put the technical talent tree back so what if peopel get more powerfull , now its back again to TBC game , EPICS >then all
Wotlk change that by making skill 45% epics 55% , now its back to EPICS 85% and skill 15% (since everybody is pressing the damn same buttons)
2 stop that stupid cheographic dancing of 1 seconds and 3 seconds , just ban the freaking adons that makes it easy mode.
Now you created a game that people who refuse to play without adons , are forced to play adon games .
You know what make 3D huds then possible and standard if continueing down this stupid 1 second -3 second dance routine
The game is not about skills its about memory gaming , and relfex acting in raid .
This alone shows totally no innovation from developers , no addiction with reality just developers ego pride .
IF a game is made for casuals like the target group is intended ban the freaking addons , if the game is made for hardcore
then ad the adons into the basic game . now it only shows sloppy lazy designs , that most gamers are needed to have DBM .
IF DBM is needed , then it should have been inserted into basic package of wow .
3 Stop lying to people , if game is fun it suppose to be fun , not watching stupid bars goes up , Hordir rep said it all
Now in the new expansion you get nothing but hordir rep grind .
Here these are free improvements that Blizz should have implemented and lessons learned from WOTLK the game that brought them the "12 million " why cause Wotlk was made for the casual as well as hardcore .
Now its a game thats made for the dummies and getting boring even hardcore are bored .
Allow me to sum up my collegue's rant.
World of Warcraft use to be about pure skill. As it was in Everquest back in the good ol' days. You didn't have mods/addons there and you had to learn everything as you went along. But now, there is a mod for everything. The only thing missing is the mod to get you a drink while you play World of Warcraft. The skill it took to become a healer use to add that depth to the game. The tank having to truly watch the mobs and know if they were about to peel off to attack the healer. And the DPS having to be careful to not overdo things.
But that is no longer the case where speed and purplez are now everything and the only way you win is via epics and mods, not skill.
And as far as the casuals go, yes, its seems the scales have tipped a bit too far the other way. As much of a casual as I am, even I have to admit the game has become...too dumbed down. So now the casuals are bored and the hardcore are ho-humming about the fights being too easy. Bring back the skill
Wow is fine, you are all in the minority, most players out there don't read forums or go to outside websites, they don't think "whats wrong with my game?" they just have fun. Which is why WoW is doing so very well.
The fact that you are on this website means you are in a minority of players already.
Implying WoW is having problems or that WoW needs to "fix" itself is also folly, if it were broken it wouldn't be successful which it is.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't mean that you are not alone in that sentiment, you may insist that SURELY someone else feels the same way, but that does not make it true.
Generalizing in any way is always stupid, always.
"Nobody goes to that restaurant, it's too crowded." -Yogi Berra
Agree. WoW seems to be doing quite alright.
An argument can be held that how the gameplay is now isn't to the taste of some groups of players, and that it was maybe better in the past. But that's no where near WoW 'falling apart'
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I agree but that has been said every time they release any patch, content update, or ex pack that provides sweeping changes to the game. I mean my problem with all this doomsaying is that it happens every time anything happens at all, good or bad.
Its like we all take turns being chicken little and screaming about the latest disaster that will doom us all.
Edit: Example: LFD when it was introduced, or how about when heroic's in Wrath dropped purples? Just two off the top of my head.
Big difference is this time , that this year there are going to be real competition .
Thats the huge difference , and once people let go they notice how selfishe the wow community has become .
They don´t care anymore if you come back or stay away .
The community is killing itself is the 2011 trend , they wont welcome people back anymore .
Cause it takes too much time to train them again , we don´t want to wipe in easy content etc etc...
Its all about themself , this is whats killing wow , nothing else .
So they will do fine , but if you are a full server , those medium and lower population will get lower this year .
Thats my estimate , especially the interest in tons of other MMORPG this year .