In a few years time children will stare at a kitchen sink full of dishes not knowing what to do with it ... without a dishwasher.
Progress people, let it go allready.
Games these days are not progress lol maybe grafik wise, but all dumb down games these days simpler and simpler i dont see as progress.
rofl, better toss out your computer, as its simpler and easier to use than old computers, while your at it you better toss out every other piece of electronics you have, as every single one of them is simpler than they used to be.
Making things easier to use and simpler IS progress, the only people who cant see this are the ones who seem to think there better because they like things that are complicated for nothing more than the sake of being complicated.
And if you want to see simple games? go play games in the 80s, where all you could do was jump and if you were lucky, throw/shoot something.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Any game that actually forces players to read the manual has terrible design. We shouldn't have to research a game and follow the script the developer set out for us just to enjoy it.
In a few years time children will stare at a kitchen sink full of dishes not knowing what to do with it ... without a dishwasher.
Progress people, let it go allready.
Games these days are not progress lol maybe grafik wise, but all dumb down games these days simpler and simpler i dont see as progress.
rofl, better toss out your computer, as its simpler and easier to use than old computers, while your at it you better toss out every other piece of electronics you have, as every single one of them is simpler than they used to be.
Making things easier to use and simpler IS progress, the only people who cant see this are the ones who seem to think there better because they like things that are complicated for nothing more than the sake of being complicated.
And if you want to see simple games? go play games in the 80s, where all you could do was jump and if you were lucky, throw/shoot something.
You have no clue what you're talking about. My NES had games on it that were more complicated than many of today. I thnk it's actually good advice to throw out all these new things that are making people stupid.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Abbott believes the "gap separating today's generation of gamers from those of us who once drew maps on grid paper is nearly unbridgeable."
Yep, except I'd take out the word "nearly".
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Any game that actually forces players to read the manual has terrible design. We shouldn't have to research a game and follow the script the developer set out for us just to enjoy it.
Ah! Days of paper and pencil D&D those were good times. I guess todays gamers want a "no brainer" type of games.
Originally posted by TruthXHurts Kids are becoming exactly what they are supposed to become. Mindless consumers.
Couldn't agree more. The ruling laissez-faire capitalist-fascist class wants mindless peasants to OBEY, and nothing else. Don't think, don't question, OBEY.
In a few years time children will stare at a kitchen sink full of dishes not knowing what to do with it ... without a dishwasher.
Progress people, let it go allready.
Games these days are not progress lol maybe grafik wise, but all dumb down games these days simpler and simpler i dont see as progress.
rofl, better toss out your computer, as its simpler and easier to use than old computers, while your at it you better toss out every other piece of electronics you have, as every single one of them is simpler than they used to be.
Making things easier to use and simpler IS progress, the only people who cant see this are the ones who seem to think there better because they like things that are complicated for nothing more than the sake of being complicated.
And if you want to see simple games? go play games in the 80s, where all you could do was jump and if you were lucky, throw/shoot something.
you want to solve a problem but then you want that computer solves that problem for you,keep rolling on the floor and dont get up.
It's not just game, it's the whole internet era. All these kids born in the 90's never lived in world without internet or cell phone. How do you expect them to understand games that were made when DOS was the operating system.
Just tell me what this is.
If your 20 years old or less it's normal not to know.
Ah the good ole days
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
The conclusions in the original article don't surprise me. Every game has been dumbed down now to fit the needs of those who simply can't be bothered to do anything for themselves but insist on it all being handed to them on a plate NOW!
To see the truth of this all you need do is log into Fallen Earth and see the constant inane questions being asked on the Help Channel from players unwilling to find anything out for themselves.They can't even find the keymapping section on the options menu without asking, let alone find a harvesting node or work out how to target a mob (those are all actual examples that were asked just the other day).
Today's kids read a manual? Ur having a laff m8, innit!
It's not just game, it's the whole internet era. All these kids born in the 90's never lived in world without internet or cell phone. How do you expect them to understand games that were made when DOS was the operating system.
Just tell me what this is.
If your 20 years old or less it's normal not to know.
Ah the good ole days floppies lol. You can't even store a bargain bin cell phone pic on those anymore.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
I'm an old school PnP gamer, and I still (almost) read always read the manual.
Mainly because I play games like Hearts of Iron 3, Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin, Europa Universalis, Chess
You know the games that would give your average Halo player an nose bleed from their brain hemorrhaging, because they'd actually have to think to play the game.
*psst*
And I never like the Ultima series.
Now I dont think of myself like some gaming god, or that Im just more evolved than the average gamer now-a-days.
But the simple truth is I am suffering from lack of depth and complexity in my gaming because game developers have had to dumb things down...no matter what you believe; it is the truth.
Eight years ago when I started playing EVE, I really couldnt have imagined that we'd be where we are in MMO gaming today (and that statement has more than one meaning).
The depth and diversity and vastness and the graphics (at its time it blew everyone out of the fucking ball park) and the idea of one shared world that EVE brought to the MMO gaming table...was just mindblowing (and still is, sadly).
If you would have asked me eight years ago what would MMO gaming be like today, after EVE had recast the mold...Well its sure wouldnt be what we have today.
I imagined something like WoW's large open world but with depth, a world that evolved to you, and around you. A level of interactivity with the enviroment that would pull you in and made you forget it was a game (that is now unfortunately a dream).
Instead, eight years after EVE revolutionized MMOs we got...DCUO, nothing more than a glorified single player console game with a monthly subscription. With less choices than COH, a MMO that launched four (thats FOUR) years ago.
Now all you generation-Zs(?) can point your fingers at me and claim- "I just dont get it" , but the truth is- "I get it, I just dont like it."
The sad fact is we're all suffering because game developers have to cater to a target audience that complexity and depth and...thought, is just too much of an effort.
Although Rift is fun and TOR is catching my eye, my true hope is CCP's WoD mmo.
CCPs target audience has never been the 14-16 year olds. And honestly no reason for me to think that they would change that with World of Darkness. They expect you to be able to think, and you know what? I like it.
So to sum up, I completly agree with that Escapist article. I just made it more relevant to MMO's since this is an MMO disscusion.
I think Im just gong to repost your response everytime someone tells me I just dont "get" whats going on in the MMO industry today. Get freaking what?? Shallow game play? Ya I get it. Lack of a persistant game world? Ya I get it. Character models that make me feel like taking a shower (and not a cold one). Ya I get it. That Im playing a multiplayer console port? Ya I get it. That I just need to plug a game contolller into my PC? Ya I get it. That MMO's or shipping with end game looking characters at level 1? No need to earn that shit. Ya I get it. I could go on and on but I just dont "get it:" Great post Hokie.
I am looking forward to WoD even though I was never into the P&P RPG. I hope it at least is a 3 faction to start. Hunters, Lycans, and Vampires. I'm assuming since it's CCP it will be an open world with PVP.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Lol wow. I spent months in my formative years on that game. I remember getting it for christmas for my Sega master system. Reading the manuel over breakfast and that game beeing pretty much all I thought about for how ever long it took me to beat it....well apart from boobs and cheese. So I find this a very disheartning to read.
I spent 2 straight summers on this game. By the end of the second I was killing pirates, taking their ships, and chaining bridges across the oceans so I never had to deal with slow water speeds again just for the heck of it. Well, at least until I realized there were only so many ships available in the game and then my bridges started disappearing! lol
The best part about the Ultima series was freedom. With the exception of dungeons you could do anything in any order. And you didn't have "quests" per se so you had to figure out what you needed to do as you went. I loved discovering some new npc who would say, "you need to ask this guy about x." And you'd say, "Are you serious?? I've talked to that guy 10,000 times!!" Or when you'd come across something totally new after playing the game for weeks - like Buccaneer's Den. What a great discovery that was!
Greatest game ever!!
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
As someone who still feels that Ultima IV is the greatest single-player rpg I have ever played, I could go on and on about where I think the rpg genre went wrong (at least in terms of the single player format, which is a whole different animal from the mmo format) but I'm not really certain that rpg styles is really at the heart of this problem. You could put an in-game tutorial into Ultima IV to replace the manual, but I don't believe it would help. Ultima IV required you to read a lot within the game, too. It required you to take notes. There were simply too many important conversations involving too many npc's to remember them, and there were no multiple choice answers. You might talk to some guy this week that tells you what to say to some other guy to get the info you need, but you might not run into that other guy until sometime 3 weeks down the road. If you don't have a notebook, you're hosed. Ultima IV also required you to translate glyphs. By the time I was done with my Ultima odyssey I could read the glyphs without needing the key.
To me what this boils down to is not changes in game design, but changes in our education system. 25 years ago reading, studying, and having the patience to learn a process were all fun aspects of games. Now we live in the world of multi-media and this generation of young gamers watch video and regurgitate info more than they process concepts and apply them on their own. I'm not criticizing our young people so much as stating what I see as fact. I reserve my criticism for our education system.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
Every year, there are more schools being opened, schools with even more granulated field of knowledge. That allows more students, although less talented, to gain higher education degree and diploma. Once their graduate though, some of them might have difficulty to find a job in their domain and end up as teachers at those newly opened schools with even more granulated knowledge, teaching other less talented students.
Every year, there are more schools being opened, schools with even more granulated field of knowledge. That allows more students, although less talented, to gain higher education degree and diploma. Once their graduate though, some of them might have difficulty to find a job in their domain and end up as teachers at those newly opened schools with even more granulated knowledge, teaching other less talented students.
You gotta love free market.
That's not free market, thats the accreditation, tenure, politically motivated info programming and department of Ed systems run amok. Free market would say anyone open a school and teach whatever you want and let the market decide if it has any value.
I think its a bit much to expect new players to enjoy Ultima IV the way we did back in the 80's.
But the fact that in this scenario it was kids in a class studying "The Art and History of Electronic Gaming" you would think these kids had a more open mind and could appreciate the classics.
If you went into a decent film school/course you would find kids who know and appreciate movies like The Battleship Potemkin and Birth of a Nation and take their controversial nature in stride.
The fact that these kids, who are the equivalent of film students, didn't have the intellectual flexibility and openess to find the qualities that made Ultima IV so great is saddening. But its not unexpected either. Video gaming doesn't have the tradition of appreciating the past like movies or music do.
Free market would say anyone open a school and teach whatever you want and let the market decide if it has any value.
And that is how it works... It is the market demand pushing changes, not vice versa.
Y'know I wonder if that's really true, because so many people seem so dissatisfied with the genre.I think devs ASSUME the reason WoW succeeded was because it was simple and childlike in its appearance, but nothing could be further from the truth which is why any game that attempts to emulate that paradigm fails. WoW succeeded because it was a pen and paper game for a quarter century and had millions of players. Add another 6+ million chinese gamers that got the game for free and only pay 6 cents an hour, many of which are working on behalf of chinese gold farming companies, and bang 10 Million subscribers.
Comments
rofl, better toss out your computer, as its simpler and easier to use than old computers, while your at it you better toss out every other piece of electronics you have, as every single one of them is simpler than they used to be.
Making things easier to use and simpler IS progress, the only people who cant see this are the ones who seem to think there better because they like things that are complicated for nothing more than the sake of being complicated.
And if you want to see simple games? go play games in the 80s, where all you could do was jump and if you were lucky, throw/shoot something.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Any game that actually forces players to read the manual has terrible design. We shouldn't have to research a game and follow the script the developer set out for us just to enjoy it.
You have no clue what you're talking about. My NES had games on it that were more complicated than many of today. I thnk it's actually good advice to throw out all these new things that are making people stupid.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Abbott believes the "gap separating today's generation of gamers from those of us who once drew maps on grid paper is nearly unbridgeable."
Yep, except I'd take out the word "nearly".
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Ah! Days of paper and pencil D&D those were good times. I guess todays gamers want a "no brainer" type of games.
Kids are becoming exactly what they are supposed to become. Mindless consumers.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Couldn't agree more. The ruling laissez-faire capitalist-fascist class wants mindless peasants to OBEY, and nothing else. Don't think, don't question, OBEY.
I blame Apple and rap music.
you want to solve a problem but then you want that computer solves that problem for you,keep rolling on the floor and dont get up.
Generation P
Ah the good ole days
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
The conclusions in the original article don't surprise me. Every game has been dumbed down now to fit the needs of those who simply can't be bothered to do anything for themselves but insist on it all being handed to them on a plate NOW!
To see the truth of this all you need do is log into Fallen Earth and see the constant inane questions being asked on the Help Channel from players unwilling to find anything out for themselves.They can't even find the keymapping section on the options menu without asking, let alone find a harvesting node or work out how to target a mob (those are all actual examples that were asked just the other day).
Today's kids read a manual? Ur having a laff m8, innit!
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
I think Im just gong to repost your response everytime someone tells me I just dont "get" whats going on in the MMO industry today. Get freaking what?? Shallow game play? Ya I get it. Lack of a persistant game world? Ya I get it. Character models that make me feel like taking a shower (and not a cold one). Ya I get it. That Im playing a multiplayer console port? Ya I get it. That I just need to plug a game contolller into my PC? Ya I get it. That MMO's or shipping with end game looking characters at level 1? No need to earn that shit. Ya I get it. I could go on and on but I just dont "get it:" Great post Hokie.
I am looking forward to WoD even though I was never into the P&P RPG. I hope it at least is a 3 faction to start. Hunters, Lycans, and Vampires. I'm assuming since it's CCP it will be an open world with PVP.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
I spent 2 straight summers on this game. By the end of the second I was killing pirates, taking their ships, and chaining bridges across the oceans so I never had to deal with slow water speeds again just for the heck of it. Well, at least until I realized there were only so many ships available in the game and then my bridges started disappearing! lol
The best part about the Ultima series was freedom. With the exception of dungeons you could do anything in any order. And you didn't have "quests" per se so you had to figure out what you needed to do as you went. I loved discovering some new npc who would say, "you need to ask this guy about x." And you'd say, "Are you serious?? I've talked to that guy 10,000 times!!" Or when you'd come across something totally new after playing the game for weeks - like Buccaneer's Den. What a great discovery that was!
Greatest game ever!!
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
As someone who still feels that Ultima IV is the greatest single-player rpg I have ever played, I could go on and on about where I think the rpg genre went wrong (at least in terms of the single player format, which is a whole different animal from the mmo format) but I'm not really certain that rpg styles is really at the heart of this problem. You could put an in-game tutorial into Ultima IV to replace the manual, but I don't believe it would help. Ultima IV required you to read a lot within the game, too. It required you to take notes. There were simply too many important conversations involving too many npc's to remember them, and there were no multiple choice answers. You might talk to some guy this week that tells you what to say to some other guy to get the info you need, but you might not run into that other guy until sometime 3 weeks down the road. If you don't have a notebook, you're hosed. Ultima IV also required you to translate glyphs. By the time I was done with my Ultima odyssey I could read the glyphs without needing the key.
To me what this boils down to is not changes in game design, but changes in our education system. 25 years ago reading, studying, and having the patience to learn a process were all fun aspects of games. Now we live in the world of multi-media and this generation of young gamers watch video and regurgitate info more than they process concepts and apply them on their own. I'm not criticizing our young people so much as stating what I see as fact. I reserve my criticism for our education system.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
People who read and have free thoughts are a threat to our world government's agenda.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Hahaha, u rock! Sadly true...though I do reserve the right to read your previous posts and turn on you like a rabid mongoose.
Every year, there are more schools being opened, schools with even more granulated field of knowledge. That allows more students, although less talented, to gain higher education degree and diploma. Once their graduate though, some of them might have difficulty to find a job in their domain and end up as teachers at those newly opened schools with even more granulated knowledge, teaching other less talented students.
You gotta love free market.
I eat rabid mongoose for breakfast, and not the animal I eat bicycles.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
That's not free market, thats the accreditation, tenure, politically motivated info programming and department of Ed systems run amok. Free market would say anyone open a school and teach whatever you want and let the market decide if it has any value.
Hahahahaha!!!
And that is how it works... It is the market demand pushing changes, not vice versa.
I think its a bit much to expect new players to enjoy Ultima IV the way we did back in the 80's.
But the fact that in this scenario it was kids in a class studying "The Art and History of Electronic Gaming" you would think these kids had a more open mind and could appreciate the classics.
If you went into a decent film school/course you would find kids who know and appreciate movies like The Battleship Potemkin and Birth of a Nation and take their controversial nature in stride.
The fact that these kids, who are the equivalent of film students, didn't have the intellectual flexibility and openess to find the qualities that made Ultima IV so great is saddening. But its not unexpected either. Video gaming doesn't have the tradition of appreciating the past like movies or music do.
Y'know I wonder if that's really true, because so many people seem so dissatisfied with the genre.I think devs ASSUME the reason WoW succeeded was because it was simple and childlike in its appearance, but nothing could be further from the truth which is why any game that attempts to emulate that paradigm fails. WoW succeeded because it was a pen and paper game for a quarter century and had millions of players. Add another 6+ million chinese gamers that got the game for free and only pay 6 cents an hour, many of which are working on behalf of chinese gold farming companies, and bang 10 Million subscribers.