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F2P. Why is no one concerned

ArquitetoArquiteto Member Posts: 228

I like everyone else am excited for the game, but how is the cash shop going to work. What will be sold. Will armor and weapons be sold. If so like the EA F2P games it will be Pay2win.

This is not a troll. It is simply a fan wondering how they are going to make it work.

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Comments

  • LumanilLumanil Member Posts: 110

    It's way to early to discuss this.

    We should wait until we have enough infos about this game, before we can even think about being concerned about a cash shop.

  • romanator0romanator0 Member Posts: 2,382

    You should ask that question on the official forums. You will probably get a better answer there than anywhere else.

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  • DelmaiDelmai Member Posts: 15

    Would have preferred to see the game with a subscription system.

    It will be determined there better weapons and armor to buy. With with anything they must earn money.

  • serphilithserphilith Member Posts: 27

    I agree to the OP.

    F2P games earn money through several options. (besides website ads)


    • in-game ads

    • Item shop ( HOT! )

    • donations ( rare! )

    • ???

    • Profit

    Ads are no problem unless they do it wrong like making them to big and prominent


    In some (fake)pictures I saw of Age of Conan you could see a shaving company ad with the text: "Even barbarians shave."


     


    The Item shop usually destroys the balance of the game unless you do it Guild Wars style ( cosmetics only ).


    So don't add items like in Exteel (mecha game) to make your character top the free players.


     


    Donations are to rare in mmo games to explain. Maybe somebody else knows why some people do that?


     


    ???


     


    Profit !!

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  • SillyPantzSillyPantz Member UncommonPosts: 15

    "We dont want to sell anything that is going to compromise the skill base nature of the game"

    said in a interview PAX 2010

     

    If its like EA F2P games we are really screwed because in Battlefield heroes they said the same and then they ;§€§ us really well :D

  • IcemastaIcemasta Member UncommonPosts: 162

    Originally posted by Arquiteto

    I like everyone else am excited for the game, but how is the cash shop going to work. What will be sold. Will armor and weapons be sold. If so like the EA F2P games it will be Pay2win.

    This is not a troll. It is simply a fan wondering how they are going to make it work.

    Why post a near-flame post when you can already verify and answer your own question?

    The game is being published by Webzen, a company that has already 3 MMO on the market, let's analyze their item shop indivisually.

    1) Mu Online : A lot of items that boost exp/item drop, that's pretty standard for a F2P, little effect on gameplay. Unique cash shop pets, once again, standard and doesn't really affect gameplay. A lot of items that boost STATS temporarily, pretty game breaking. A lot of temporary rings/equipment that is pretty OP.

    2) S.U.N.: Premium package, which comes with standard premium boosts like exp/item drop, reduction in death penalty. Comes with one powerful ring.

    3) Archlord: No cash shop.

    So from 3 games, we gather that they like standard premium boosters, but don't hesitate in adding stat equipment in the form of rings.

    Will the same happen? I dunno.

     

    P.S.: Oh and please, don't bash on a game just because it's F2P, the freemium market is probably the best one for both the CUSTOMER and the vendor. F2P games that would use a system like Turbine's where they sell content + premium services(For people who prefer P2P instead of buying content one at a time) make it so your cash acquires you stuff permenantly and in turn goes to develop more content so that you spend more cash on the game.

    IE: Turbine released a pretty large zone with 2 dungeons around November 2010, for 7.50$. They will be releasing a new zone around end of february/start of March for 10$ with 2 raids and 4 instances. That's 3-4 months for content update, pretty much unseen in the F2P market right now.

  • r5s_Phobosr5s_Phobos Member Posts: 8

    Hey there.

     

    I just wanted to clarify a few things that I'm seeing spread around. We will have a cash shop. What will be in that cash shop? A mixture of things, but nothing is final yet. We are still working on making sure the game is fun to play and a great experience for people while keeping ideas for a store in the back of our heads. We have a huge list of things we think we can sell that don't affect the power of a particular player. No one wants to sell more powerful weapons or uber armor. Once we get to the point where we start building out the store, we'll want all of your feedback on the items and the process. And I really hope you don't hold back any honest criticism of what we're trying to do.

     

    Another thing is that Webzen is the publisher for Firefall in all global markets except for North America and Europe. Webzen is a great partner and has offered a lot through development, but they are not controlling game design or what we sell in the store.

     

    I realize that you're not going to be satisfied with any promises until you're able to get into the nitty gritty of what we are going to offer. Promises aren't worth anything. I do hope that you'll at least reserve judgement until we have a chance to present everything as a cohesive package though. If you're still not happy when that day comes, please feel free to rail away and provide as much feedback as you possibly can.

     

    I said this on our forums, but perhaps you guys aren't reading there... We realize that we're not creating a product, we're creating a service. In a service based industry, your customer is what matters most.



    Community is extremely important at Red 5 and we will always be striving to make sure that there is an open dialogue. If you have any suggestions or feedback, please let me know.

  • FadernFadern Member Posts: 37

    Originally posted by r5s_Phobos

    Hey there.

     

    I just wanted to clarify a few things that I'm seeing spread around. We will have a cash shop. What will be in that cash shop? A mixture of things, but nothing is final yet. We are still working on making sure the game is fun to play and a great experience for people while keeping ideas for a store in the back of our heads. We have a huge list of things we think we can sell that don't affect the power of a particular player. No one wants to sell more powerful weapons or uber armor. Once we get to the point where we start building out the store, we'll want all of your feedback on the items and the process. And I really hope you don't hold back any honest criticism of what we're trying to do.

     

    Another thing is that Webzen is the publisher for Firefall in all global markets except for North America and Europe. Webzen is a great partner and has offered a lot through development, but they are not controlling game design or what we sell in the store.

     

    I realize that you're not going to be satisfied with any promises until you're able to get into the nitty gritty of what we are going to offer. Promises aren't worth anything. I do hope that you'll at least reserve judgement until we have a chance to present everything as a cohesive package though. If you're still not happy when that day comes, please feel free to rail away and provide as much feedback as you possibly can.

     

    I said this on our forums, but perhaps you guys aren't reading there... We realize that we're not creating a product, we're creating a service. In a service based industry, your customer is what matters most.



    Community is extremely important at Red 5 and we will always be striving to make sure that there is an open dialogue. If you have any suggestions or feedback, please let me know.

     Would you say that your game will live up other mmorpgs that some people refer to as "triple A" ? Games like Wow, Aion and Rift for example.

    The game looks really cool and I would have no problem paying 15 £ each month if the game is fun and have a big content. I just don't see how a new game will have the cash = manpower, to offer as mutch content to other games that have p2p.

  • SevenOmaticSevenOmatic Member UncommonPosts: 176

    They are not going to make their game pay to play because they know it does not stand a chance as a sub based AAA game.

  • QuandriQuandri Member Posts: 11

    Originally posted by ANDRIOD

    They are not going to make their game pay to play because they know it does not stand a chance as a sub based AAA game.

    please elaborate as to how firefall will not be able to stack up against a sub based game. i'm curious. 

  • r5s_Phobosr5s_Phobos Member Posts: 8

    Originally posted by Fadern

     Would you say that your game will live up other mmorpgs that some people refer to as "triple A" ? Games like Wow, Aion and Rift for example.

    The game looks really cool and I would have no problem paying 15 £ each month if the game is fun and have a big content. I just don't see how a new game will have the cash = manpower, to offer as mutch content to other games that have p2p.

     

    I believe that we are creating an amazing triple-a quality game. In regards to polish, art, gameplay, etc. When you say "content", do you mean quests, raids, etc? If so, we're not trying to be that game. We have a persistent, open-world, co-operative campaign that you can share with hundreds of other players that will have hours of content for you, but this is not a "go kill 10 rats" kind of game. On top of the co-op campaign, there's a rich competitive multiplayer component pitting player vs player and army (our clan or guild) vs army.

     

    We're showing off some arena-based combat at PAX East in just a few weeks. If anyone is going, be sure to stop by and give us some feedback. As for your concern about business model, there are tons of games that do not have a subscription fee that do plenty well for themselves and we think we have a product that will succeed. Think of it this way... You play the game for free, you like it, you spend a few bucks and it's totally worth it to you. You don't like it, all you've lost is a little time. Risk factor is real low.

     

    In any case, as I said before, there's nothing I can say that will change anyone's mind as to what they think is the best business model or what we're doing will succeed. We'll all just have to wait and see and hopefully together we can build something great.

  • FadernFadern Member Posts: 37

    Originally posted by r5s_Phobos

    Originally posted by Fadern

     Would you say that your game will live up other mmorpgs that some people refer to as "triple A" ? Games like Wow, Aion and Rift for example.

    The game looks really cool and I would have no problem paying 15 £ each month if the game is fun and have a big content. I just don't see how a new game will have the cash = manpower, to offer as mutch content to other games that have p2p.

     

    I believe that we are creating an amazing triple-a quality game. In regards to polish, art, gameplay, etc. When you say "content", do you mean quests, raids, etc? If so, we're not trying to be that game. We have a persistent, open-world, co-operative campaign that you can share with hundreds of other players that will have hours of content for you, but this is not a "go kill 10 rats" kind of game. On top of the co-op campaign, there's a rich competitive multiplayer component pitting player vs player and army (our clan or guild) vs army.

     

    We're showing off some arena-based combat at PAX East in just a few weeks. If anyone is going, be sure to stop by and give us some feedback. As for your concern about business model, there are tons of games that do not have a subscription fee that do plenty well for themselves and we think we have a product that will succeed. Think of it this way... You play the game for free, you like it, you spend a few bucks and it's totally worth it to you. You don't like it, all you've lost is a little time. Risk factor is real low.

     

    In any case, as I said before, there's nothing I can say that will change anyone's mind as to what they think is the best business model or what we're doing will succeed. We'll all just have to wait and see and hopefully together we can build something great.

    Ye a big content can mean alot of different things, doesn't need to be 10 man pve raids but I mean more like if the game offers a good variaty of things to do for a long time. Not just a couple of campaigns that takes a week to complete and then pvp thats it. 

    Just as you say your combat looks awsome and I personaly really like the grafic, and those alone if you could fill the game with alot of things to do, I know alot of people would consider playing it.

    Thanks for your reply and I will definitly be paying attention to it and watching upcoming videos and if it is free I will most likly try it but I would more likley buy it if it would have costed money aswell.

  • SevenOmaticSevenOmatic Member UncommonPosts: 176


    Originally posted by Quandri

    Originally posted by ANDRIOD
    They are not going to make their game pay to play because they know it does not stand a chance as a sub based AAA game.
    please elaborate as to how firefall will not be able to stack up against a sub based game. i'm curious. 


    For the same reason Turbine made DDO and LOTR f2p cash shop games.

  • theinvadertheinvader Member UncommonPosts: 240

    No one's concerned because:

    a) We've heard nothing that should make us concerned.

    b) Everyone's got over the fact that F2P is a viable and popular business model and there are plenty of good F2P games.

    Always read the small print.

  • dleveldlevel Member UncommonPosts: 88

    I like that a member from the development stuff checks the forum and gives info to the players-customers.. i like your aproach phobos, i ll try that game :)

  • ComafComaf Member UncommonPosts: 1,150

    Originally posted by theinvader

    No one's concerned because:

    a) We've heard nothing that should make us concerned.

    b) Everyone's got over the fact that F2P is a viable and popular business model and there are plenty of good F2P games.

     

    Did Lord of the Rings go F2P?  Did Dungeons and Dragons go F2P?  Yes, and other games that were otherwise failing to reach a mature community did as well.  Titles are so busy aiming for the quick buck audience, that they end up betraying the trust of the very people that once wanted the above titles created.  LOTRO blew it on factional pvp - there were endless forum debates about it - in the end the game was a player vs artificial intelligence pixel grind.  DDO was broken from day 1 - you knew you were locked into one of the most linear games ever created.  All that being said - I believe LOTRO made 1000 percent more profits in their first year of going F2P - but when you consider the game was on life support - 1000 percent from almost nothing can be very VERY misleading.   I won't even go into the terrible mmorpg model that was Everquest 2 or the fact that Age of Conan - who has proved over the last 2 years that Funcom continues to ignore its players - will go F2P soon enough (along with Warhammer who followed the same ignorant assumption that players were not as vocally viable  as their own development team).

     

    I can see it now, "Warhammer Free to Play!"  Why pay for a game? Gosh hu hu hu, that is so dum!  You can play for free!"  God - how I hate propoganda in any form.

     

    F2P means the company does not have the confidence to assume they can create a monthly subscription model.  F2P means that the one barrier to reduce a lot of needless in game traffic is removed - this means anyone can cross the border at will and crap on your environment.  While this still occurs in p2p games - the statistical reality is that if you have to pay to play you will more likely than not try to invest in the game's community as well.  So while every pay to play has a small percentage of terrible community, EVERY Free to Play lets anyone in the door - greatly exacerbating the potential for a terrible online experience.

     

    Finally -F2P means you pay real life currency from a cash shop in order to compete which in turn means you will get ENDLESS gold spamming on your general chat or otherwise.  That just stinks - period.  Yeah it's becoming a popular model - thank you Korean online games that have literally saturated and dummed down the genre.

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  • SandaStunnaSandaStunna Member Posts: 101

    i'm more concerned about aim botters.

  • BobHenryBobHenry Member Posts: 6

    I'm not concerned.  Just saying.

  • LeetheLeethe Member UncommonPosts: 893

    I can only sum up my feelings with: looks awesome, don't care.

     

    Every f2p game I have ever tried I have quit. Not because of the cost but because of not liking the playstyle or the game world. 

    There is NO miracle patch.

    95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

    Hope is not a stategy.
    ______________________________
    "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  • EricDanieEricDanie Member UncommonPosts: 2,238

    Originally posted by JetFusion

    "We dont want to sell anything that is going to compromise the skill base nature of the game"

    said in a interview PAX 2010

     

    If its like EA F2P games we are really screwed because in Battlefield heroes they said the same and then they ;§€§ us really well :D

    It will probably be like that.

    They said something about Battlefield Heroes on how it provided them a huge income boost when they added equipment with stat advantages for real money, despite the vocal minority complaining with 50+ pages of discussion about it on the forums.

    So it's really just a matter of choosing: catering to a vocal minority by making the cash shop cosmetic/convenience only or filling their pockets with extra revenue from players lured into instant gratification for a game they enjoy for whatever reason, this choice is pretty clear IMO and probably for anyone that is not doing charity. Which is the reason I stick with subscription games.

  • g0dl355g0dl355 Member UncommonPosts: 305

    Nobody is concerned because its a FPS. It does not matter how many l33t weapons you buy in the cash shop, a fresh player in starter gear will still curbstomp you if he comes from a FPS background. This isnt WoW where all you need is gear and the abilty to run through opponents. FPS are very different animals.

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  • Deathwing980Deathwing980 Member UncommonPosts: 80

    Originally posted by alexanys1982

    Nobody is concerned because its a FPS. It does not matter how many l33t weapons you buy in the cash shop, a fresh player in starter gear will still curbstomp you if he comes from a FPS background. This isnt WoW where all you need is gear and the abilty to run through opponents. FPS are very different animals.

    Spoken like a True Shooter ^-^

    Its amazing when there are games that say they require skill to play and yet once you purchase the next armor or weapon from the GOLD BAR shop its completely different..

     

    Firefall though (from gathered intel on the game) will definently be something else all together, and much like Huxley will rely on your intuition and skill as a player as well as your understanding of your surroundings to keep yourself on the top of the command chain (foodchain whatever xD)

     

    hell, im all for it being free.. so long as i get to blow up my friends if they decide to doublecross me in the middle of an infestation (ie run off like freaking cowards in other events where all hope is lost)

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219
    Defintely looks good. HOT TOPIC here!

    Reports from Pax East plz

    Thanks to the dev taking the time and effort to respond here. However, I would like to be clear what your revenues will be ie what are you pricing? Content: Areas, Levels, Game modes etc? Items: gear, vanity, currency in-game etc?!

    One of the few exciting titles but F2P entails what, great to check and choose before paying but a good game deserves cash to maintain success, hence the valid query

  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144

    Originally posted by alexanys1982

    Nobody is concerned because its a FPS. It does not matter how many l33t weapons you buy in the cash shop, a fresh player in starter gear will still curbstomp you if he comes from a FPS background. This isnt WoW where all you need is gear and the abilty to run through opponents. FPS are very different animals.

     

    I would like to think this is true, but what happens when a CS whore gains a bit of skill?  

     

    I don't think P2W is the best way for this game to go.  Maybe a B2P payment model similar to guildwars would be a bit more ideal. 

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,802

    Originally posted by Arquiteto

    I like everyone else am excited for the game, but how is the cash shop going to work. What will be sold. Will armor and weapons be sold. If so like the EA F2P games it will be Pay2win.

    This is not a troll. It is simply a fan wondering how they are going to make it work.

    Bites troll bait... ^^

    It all depends on how the cash shop is designed. Its way too early to start in about that at this point. Lets wait until we have more details, shall we?

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
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