Best article MMORPG has produced in a long time, I play MMO's a lot and have done for years (I'm nearly 40) and was raised on PnP games starting way back in the day of Fighting Fantasy gamebooks. Many of my friends have moved away and got married and now have their own family. Crowding around a tabletop with a bag'o'dice is no longer possible so we have all turned to MMO's to try and recapture the old magic.
We still roleplay light and I have never 'thee' and 'thou'ed ever, we get bashed constantly for it but it is how we enjoy playing our game. For those bashers we hit the big /ignore and carry on regardless. We adjust our play to reflect the members of the group we are in either light or heavy RPing OR switching it 'off' altogether if it doesn't work for them. But their are polite ways of doing this.
I recently started a blog on my LOTRO guild site which tells the background tale of my main character, where he was brought up, how did he become what he is etc. The guildies are loving it and even some who have never role played before can see why I RP in game (many are now trying to join in!) I am one of the players who doesn't want to 'win' or power level (its a pleasant surprise when I gain a level) I play for fun and if it means I add a little personal touch that's fine.
With reference to Shinami's post I understand what you are trying to say and until the technology is available for me to immerse myself physically and mentally into a game world I roleplay with the best tools I have available. I am still role playing and I am enjoying it and that to me is all that matters.
i hear you. "RPG" is seeing a lot of abuse as marketing gimmick. my favorite example is Diablo, "an Action RPG", but certainly not a role-playing game. on the other hand, what some have experienced as role-playing, others were experiencing as roll-playing. for any popular table-top, there were many play-styles.
imo, role-playing is personal experience. it's different thing for different people. it comes bit (at least) odd through MMOs, where a lot of stuff is shoehorned down your senses. and "massive" doesn't really help most of the time. the more people you have, less spotlight each person gets. and spotlight IS important for role-playing.
maybe we aren't there quite yet. maybe some next generation of MMORPG will focus more on single-player experience (NOT in a way of soloing content) with more tools to flesh-out characters. from there, people can reach out to similar people to form groups, and groups can reach out to other similar groups and create community.
i don't see it possible in current stream, which is basically free-for-all. RP was always about closed group sharing. and you can't completely ignore others in most MMO.
in a way it seems MMO (massive) and RPG (personal) are on the opposite sides. but it can be done. just not from piling up everyone and hoping something stucks. instead, let people find others and build up from there.
Another great read. I was thinking about this, and realised I RP less and less in MMOs as time goes on. I actually played WoW for years on an RP server and got increasingly annoyed with the RP soi-disant "enforcers" who were trying to govern the way everyone else played. The nit-picking and elitism made me ashamed to call myself a role-player: I didn't want anyone thinking I was like one of the "enforcers".
As time wore on and I went from game to game, even though I was rolling on RP servers, RP seemed harder and harder to find. Now, playing Fallen Earth, I'm in a PvP clan, but I'll merrily RP at the drop of a hat, since FE seems to lack that elitist attitude to RP. I've run over and rezzed players' horses in lowbie zones on my character who thinks he's a vet, and have had many fun conversations arise from it. My main is a wannabe tycoon (always behind on the latest thing), and I've had fun on the forums with IC postings (outside of the RP section).
A lot of it seems to come down to the average age of players, FE attracts an older crowd, many of whom are familiar with RP from TTGs and are a lot more mellow than the younger players you find in many games who seem to view RP as something bizarre and/or threatening.
I've come to terms with the fact that RP is something I'll take when I can find, and consider it a bonus when I do. I hope that SW:TOR will have a community that embraces the RP aspect more than the average game does (on a RP server in Rift through all Betas, and so far have seen zero RP, though that could have been a time-zone thing since I'm a Euro playing on US servers), and given the interest in TOR from RP-ing RL friends, I should at least be able to roll with a group of people I know to enjoy some good RP.
RP adds a whole other dimension to gaming, it's something I'm very sad to see shrinking away.
I am also a long time Roleplayer, I sill have my original A5 boxed set of D&D around here somewhere. So I appreciate your article. I think that we rp'ers online are part of that generation who learned our craft sitting around a table with people who, even if unknown to us that first time, became friends and allies over time. But we did not rp without talking OOC at the same time, there were bio breaks, snack breaks, going to the bar breaks for those of us that met in the local gaming club situated in the function room of a pub. So I was always used to external forces impacting upon the internal life of the game. In time we grew older some of us gained property of our own and we could host RP sessions in quieter and more salubrious settings but we were still playing roles. Tthere were still OOC asides but being friends we knew how to make them without breaking the immersion of the session. Like many of us I tried solo fantasy games on the computer this lead to also being early onto the internet back in '94 -'95. What was often happening there was a sort of rp.
While friends played Everquest I found Asheron's Call again there was a new evolution to the RP environment in that we were all thrown together in a world teeming with life, and even if many playing were Old School roleplayers, each brought their own playing style to the keyboard plus the new generation of youngsters who had never experienced pen and paper. so we adapted. In the end I have found that the best way to keep a Roleplaying atmosphere in an enviroment filled with many that "LOL" "WTF" "STFU" and other "OMG" heresies to the old school rp community was to accept and embrace them as part of the hustle and bustle of a busy background. Also to form a guild and have a rigorous application procedure. You need to be dedicated to get into the guild I run, on the otherhand it has meant that we have a strong community and form bonds with other rp communities. Sure things have changed but they have evolved playing on a keyboard will not for many years be like gathering together in one room to play, but in those day we did not have a cast of 10's or even 100's with whom we might interact.
Things have changed, evolved over the years, but those who continue to enjoy breathing life into their characters still exist in great numbers, let us watch to what the hardware and software, have for us in the future. RP'ers are a bit like the military we improvise, adapt and overcome. Bright blessings to all of us.
Do what thou wilt, and harm ye none. - Witches Rede
I am a very visual person and a old school roleplayer too. But for me the issue is not, that it is visually outlined already, it is that it is outlined LIMITED and bad.
Take characters. Simply example. ALL human men in WOW have arms like a lumberjack. No place for a lean and thin mage or a rogue like person. All have these "heroic" proportions and that moment it is no longer me. And THAT means RP for me is essentially dead. I can't play a char where I always either laugh or puke over and tbh, I always hated those uber muscular men and I HATE to play them even more. Or sometimes I even love to play a "freak char" as Mr Erickson from SWTOR would call it. I loved my Ratonga and my Sarnath from EQ2 to bits. They were ugly, but not for me. I had choice, I had something to identify with, even if other people might not understand it. But when the scope is so limited visually who I can be, I can't RP.
Like the adult men physique of DCU. I NEVER EVER could rolplay a male char in THIS sort of body. Period.
For me that is why visual diversity in char design is one of the most vital things in a MMO.
EDIT: Two notes to add.
- I am still a pen and paper roleplayer, so for me it's not something of the past, I am going to be DM later today, actually
- second, D&D is not such a good example. It leads way too much only from one battle to another. A D&D char has only very few skills not centered around combat. Try a good PnP game like the German "The Dark Eye". I am sure there are others in US, which are less "dungeon crawlers" as D&D is. SO I just think even a D&D gamer is from my perspective way too focussed on combat to know all the scope of possible RP. No offense meant.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
A quick reply about how the characters look. Does it actually matter? When playing across the table or sitting around a coffee table sipping chardonay did I look at those playing with me and say to myself "hm Richard does not look like the Malkavian he is playing so well, so I can't immerse myself into this game." no it was in my imagination what was be said, the feedback to actions, I see a charcater I am interacting with on the screen but how it come across to me depends upon his or her actions and the added emotes. If you get to play with those characters in an ongoing environment they develop the histories just as in PnP, we know their strengths and their weaknesses.
Do what thou wilt, and harm ye none. - Witches Rede
Its a shame this site only has the one credible writer on staff. If the other hacks allowed to make posts here had half the talent of Isabelle this site would be 100 times better.
Eq1 was my first mmorpg and initially i tried roleplaying within the game. I quickly came to the conclusion that computer games were the wrong forum within which to roleplay. No action you take, no creature you kill, no interaction you have with an npc ever has any lasting meaning in a computer game. No matter how revered or how despised your faction is with a particular group in a game, no path will ever open other than what is already programmed into the game.
RP when referred to computer games has nothing to do with actually playing the role or whatever. It just means that you control an avatar with some attributes and stats and stuff.
RP when referred to computer games has nothing to do with actually playing the role or whatever. It just means that you control an avatar with some attributes and stats and stuff.
That is really just a part of it. Many MMOs (EQ2 to mention one) have mechanics so you actually can flag yourself a s a roleplayer.
RPing is also pretending to be your character, you say what your character would say instead of what you say. "-Crow, that orc over there is a large and ugly one. -Sin, try to enchant him. -I will distract him while the rest of you give it all you can." Instatead of "-Large boss ahead, I'll tank him, Sin do CC, The rest will do DPS".
RPing or not is just something some people prefer, others don't. But good MMOs can be played many games and some guilds only talk in character while others never do it.
Some devs also considers dialogue trees from NPCs RPing.
My RL friends and I use the word "toon" to describe our MMO characters all the time. And I suppose I do see them as vehicles to project me into the game, but more like puppets I control, certainly something more interactive than a glove.
It speaks to the point of your article that I would never refer to my tabletop characters as toons. Those I refer to by name, because they do have a wealth of experiences that differentiate them from one another. In MMOs, especially themepark ( which I prefer BTW), all my toons have nearly identical experiences on the themepatrk rides. What's to set them apart? How do you RP a clone? RPing in MMOs is just not even close to the tabletop experience or worth the time in my opinion.
Another wonderful article, Iz. I get the pleasure of reading them as I post them and love every second.
The best and only real roleplaying I've ever done was in the original Neverwinter Nights. First I played on a persistent world (HEY GLORWING PEEPS!). That was the first time I'd ever done any such thing and it was a blast. I learned how to do it right and went on to NeverwinterConnections.com and played in several months-long campaigns with a small group of players and a dynamic DM. Those were the best days ever.
After years of that, I migrated to MMOs. The closest I've found to RP in any MMO is in LOTRO. But even then, it wasn't much. It's tough to find a good, dedicated group that isn't focused on the end game and equipment acquisition. *sighs*
I'm still waiting to find a great and true roleplaying MMO. I have dim hopes, however, since there's no way to enforce OOC behavior on so-called RP servers.
Maybe we need to find a game that lots of us here at MMORPG.com love and form a guild to do it right. What do you say?
I have an entire shelf of Middle Earth Role Playing (MERP) books. I am still a bit disappointed in LOTRo when I go someplace and find things different as I spent so much time -decades!-imagining what they'ld be like.
I recreated my old MERP character on Landroval and was quickly shot down by the RP Guilds that I tried to join as none of them had even heard of it which pretty much soured me on Landroval RP- I redid a more bread and butter character. I still think 'my Middle Earth' was better.
Interesting article. I've never played table top games like that before but I did know a group of guys and a surprising healthy amount of girls who rented the apartment next door for gaming sessions. it was Interesting to hear about in thier colourfull descriptions but it wasnt for me in practice. I hope that one day the MMORPG video game evolves into something so immersive that its impossible not to role play.
MMORPG's are my second option of RPG'ing. Me and a few others, a small group, have been rping for years together - in the same "world" as MMO'ers would see it. It's been the same storyline constantly improving and progressing. All of us have multiple "characters" that we roleplay differently. There is our "GM" as some would call him, he is the sole reason this RPG exists. He is a genious to have kept it going for as long as it has been going for. He makes ALL of the main storylines, thinks of every possibility and thinks of every characters reaction to things. He alone controls over 300 characters which the rest of us see as "NPC's". There is no visual, just our imagination - aside from the artwork we all chip into. It is imense. I feel sorry for those of you who know what it's like and have lost it - a true loss. Those of you that have never done it... well, you've missed out on something amazing - no matter how others view it.
Put through the personal paces of my crippled fingers.
After reading your article I sat back, remembering some of the times of past ventures. I remember battling through the dregs of Tortage trying to earn my passage home. I found a few like minded friends, and together we fought all those who would oppose us, leaving a trail of bloodied tyranny in our wake. We won our passage, our right, and travelled back to the land of our origins.
Things were not all laden with bliss, I found I had no home left and there was much more that I had to do. My fight to travel home had only proven that I must fight once again, and there seemed no end to the oppressors before me. Luckily, there were many there to fight with me. I was brought into a guild, and they welcomed me into their fold as we held the same goals and desires. I was comforted to know that many we fighting the war with me, even if they may not hold a blade in each battle. For the first time since travelling to my homeland, did I feel like I had a home.
As I travelled from place to place, I noticed that there were many more guilds like ours, and time bred many alliances. There were many meetings between the high councils of multiple guilds, and my presence was requested more times then I would prefer, as my soul searches for the victory in battles of steel, not words. Alas, I still must not forget that I could not have walked the path I had chosen alone.
I remember meeting a strange fellow named XxXDeathMasterXxX and for obvious reasons I could not pronounce his name, so I called him Dim. He took offense to my mispronounciation of his name, to which I apoligized and called him Dum instead. His rage excalated and he swore at me in hopes that I would cower from his rage. I aptly took his head. I never was much for conversation.
Memories aside, as I don't think that I will get to have such an adventure again. Maybe I'm too old, and my adventure days are over, or maybe it's the world that has passed on. It's sad to see such glory's pass, but I will remember them fondly. Perhaps I might get to adventure again, fighting to right the wrongs of tyranny, and let my voice ring out with the battle cries of many. Perhaps, in another life.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I am a scientist and an artist in the real world. I would like to help clear things up.
First and Foremost, I will give you real definitions
The world "Roleplaying" means "To act out" and there is a field, an occupation of people who "roleplay" professionally. We call them "Actors" and their majors are in Theater Arts. This isn't an illusion, or an idiotic make-believe idea. It is not an OPINION either. It is the "actual" definition. Of course people in the U.S love to take Opinion and pass it as fact under "argumentum ad populum" which means "the belief something is true because the majority say it is true."
Acting is a physical thing. It involves emotion, expression and even some skill. Sitting in front of a computer and typing out lines means trying to make up for a "loss of voice" through smilies and other things, forcing people to learn and assume certain things...where the illusion of expression exists. Think of how we type lol to mean laughing out loud but we use it to simply show we are there and listening and are agreeable or disagreeable to something...Think of how every other expression has problems...
Paradigms may change over time as an illusion, but underneath it all its really the same thing.
You want "roleplaying?"
Go watch your favorite TV show or movie and judge if the "acting" is good or not.
If you are like me, and truly know roleplaying well, I am sure you have all read through all the volumes of "Adventures in Roleplaying" which is a series of compiled stories from different roleplaying sessions from tabletop roleplaying to freeform roleplaying and even abstract roleplaying which have been all collected into stories for roleplayers to read, try on their groups and inspire people into sharing their best moments...
Once you read any of that, you will truly learn....and though its not designed to drive you away from MMOs, you will learn that what you believe you play and what you actually "defend" are two different things.
Yeh...well....your science degree and booksmarts forgot a key ingredient in your roleplaying defintition. The word "game".
Rememeber...we're discussing "roleplaying" in games....or "roleplaying games", which alters the definition of roleplaying.
Roleplaying in a game is quite possible. You just don't understand how to do it.
In the words of Stephen Covey..."Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
Another wonderful article, Iz. I get the pleasure of reading them as I post them and love every second.
The best and only real roleplaying I've ever done was in the original Neverwinter Nights. First I played on a persistent world (HEY GLORWING PEEPS!). That was the first time I'd ever done any such thing and it was a blast. I learned how to do it right and went on to NeverwinterConnections.com and played in several months-long campaigns with a small group of players and a dynamic DM. Those were the best days ever.
After years of that, I migrated to MMOs. The closest I've found to RP in any MMO is in LOTRO. But even then, it wasn't much. It's tough to find a good, dedicated group that isn't focused on the end game and equipment acquisition. *sighs*
I'm still waiting to find a great and true roleplaying MMO. I have dim hopes, however, since there's no way to enforce OOC behavior on so-called RP servers.
Maybe we need to find a game that lots of us here at MMORPG.com love and form a guild to do it right. What do you say?
What and awesome idea. I'd go to any game just to be a part of this.
WOW Isabellle, when you first came here I thought ok, here's hoping but you have big shoes to fill. Now I wonder if they make shoes (metaphor) big enough. I have very much enjoyed every piece you have done.
I started with pen and paper to and sometimes miss the connection with my other self . That said I do crawl into character in a good game...and just play the others. From there it was Atari, Intellevision..hmmm, remember the imp? An early 'pc' that was, in truth, a small circuit board.
One thing that struck me in reading was the need for so many to pigeonhole games as an X or Y. Hey, thats not a true MMO because.... The same mindset jumps on the flavor of the day in bashing or praising a game with 'facts' that may have held water at one time but no longer do.
One good thing about muds was my typing speed was actually decent becaause it was the only connection to the game. Gotta admit I don't miss open world PK with full looting and corpse sac permitted in many of the early ones...wopping 30 level games.
I can really relate to Isabelle's article. As a tabletop roleplayer of a decade or two, as well as someone who started single player computer RPG's in the SSI days (Eye of the Beholder!), I really enjoyed this article. I also dislike the new term "toons" but my dislike stems from the source word "cartoons" which has nothing to do with roleplaying characters.
However, despite all this, my attempt to roleplay in an MMO lasted all of a week, I think. I quickly realized that the medium was just not suited to it. And also, the communities are too diverse and fragmented in opinion to achieve much. (Unless of course you are one of the fortunate ones to find a group online that suites your style, which I am not.)
So all I really wish for in an MMO is immersion. By immersion I simply mean that everyone is following the laid out stories and quests in a manner befitting their character and race, and I don't expect anyone to actually be roleplaying in the tabletop sense. And immersion is one thing that one used to be able to get quite readily for reasons discussed in one of Isabelle's previous articles and a few others here on mmorpg.com.
Unfortunately, even that seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs. Game Designers put so much effort into the immersion factor which is all blown away by a section of players who insist on calling themselves "BiggerOne", "Dumptruck" and "IamNinja" (just to name a few). And this by the way is all happening in the much lauded LOTRO, of which I'm a long time player. And then to further that, they get all aggressive about equipment minimums, leveling efficiencies and farming / grinding.
I don't think I'll ever understand how people can get enjoyment out of such activities, in much the same way that they probably cannot understand why their activities are spoiling my fun. Heres to a dying breed.
I feel really bad for being born in a generation that missed out the Pen'n'Paper table-top RPGs, I really want that to come back and to experience it.
I find Ultima online and Baldur's Gate to be absolutely amazing games and in my collection of favorites with more modern titles such as The Elder Scrolls series.
In MMOs unless I force myself to interact socially and get a reason to stay playing for other people I don't tend to stay long.
The closest I got to 'old skool' was text-based Role Playing in Forums online. I could easily get back into that and enjoy it longer than an MMO (maybe I just don't fit into that aspect of social gaming anymore?)
A setting made by the host, various different characters written up and thrown in by the RPers and a world crafted through their activities and not completely pre-set, and no directly linear story. Perrrfection!
Nice article, I'm an old school PnP RP-er and MUD-er. My main interest in MMORPG's tends to be RPing as well. I'm fortunate enough to have fallen in with a very good RPing guild in LOTRO, so that helps alot.
I think the problem with RPing in MMORPG's isn't just with the audience, although that's certainly part of it. Most games aren't built very well to support RPing. It's not that it can't be done...it's just that the mechanics of the game aren't really built with RP as a design goal...it's something that tends to happen in spite of a game rather then because of it.
A big part of what makes the magic happen in PnP games and in MUD's is not just the interaction between the player characters but also the interaction between the player characters and the game world. The players react to the environment around them...and the environment reacts to the players actions. This later is missing from modern MMORPG's. The environments tend to be static, linear and non-interactive with very little the players do having any real effect on the environment.
The watch-word for MMORPG developers tends to be "delivering content". The thing they really seemed to miss about the old school PnP experience was that the creation of content was a COLLABORATIVE effort between the GM and the Players (and the players and each other). Content was shaped as much by the players actions as it was by the GM's imagination.
This is really whats missing from modern MMORPG's. They seem to have devolved more into an E-sport that involves racking up points by defeating mobs...or by players defeating each other. Even games like the upcoming TOR which claims to want to bring the RP back into MMORPGs.... they seem more interested in TELLING a story rather then letting the players participate in the creation of the story. Remember that in old school PnP....Role-Players weren't just Actors...they were also screen-writers...writing a large part of the story in collaboration with the GM.
Even in sandbox style games, which should have better support for RPing mechanisms, the focus seems largly on PvP gankfest E-sport...which is definately NOT what RPing is about.
What's needed, IMO, to capture a bit of the old PnP feel in MMORPG is far more Live Events and the freedom of GM's to actualy BE GM's and not glorified CSR's. That and more sophisticated automated mechanisms to make the game environment more dynamic in reaction to the players.
I do see a bit of hope for this on the horizon...with systems like GW2's dynamic events system and better tools in game engines for GM's to do stuff on the fly. What we really need now is some big budget developers who aren't afraid to experiment and see if there is enough interest in real RP...if resources are invested to truely support it.
If you have it, and you spread it around when it flares up. Other people will get it. It'll go away when the cool kids are around, but every so often it shall return with a vengence and spread forth!
Roleplaying is second nature to this blue-blood. Seeking that extra something more from my online interactions with peasants is a desire of mine.
I am not in the camp of thinkers that believes developers should create specific resources to promote role-playing. Rather, building an interesting world filled with interesting things to do should suffice. It is our job to interact accordingly to what is being presented to us.
Save your gear scores for the abicus children!
Let the King lead you to a glorious victory! Then reward you most deservingly with a bracer blessed with 15 agility.
Mmmm, yes. Tis a glorious battle we shall forge ahead.
Characters live too long in MMOs to do good RP ... after a few thousand hours, I find its not fun to be playing a persona with no connection to who I really am.
Comments
Best article MMORPG has produced in a long time, I play MMO's a lot and have done for years (I'm nearly 40) and was raised on PnP games starting way back in the day of Fighting Fantasy gamebooks. Many of my friends have moved away and got married and now have their own family. Crowding around a tabletop with a bag'o'dice is no longer possible so we have all turned to MMO's to try and recapture the old magic.
We still roleplay light and I have never 'thee' and 'thou'ed ever, we get bashed constantly for it but it is how we enjoy playing our game. For those bashers we hit the big /ignore and carry on regardless. We adjust our play to reflect the members of the group we are in either light or heavy RPing OR switching it 'off' altogether if it doesn't work for them. But their are polite ways of doing this.
I recently started a blog on my LOTRO guild site which tells the background tale of my main character, where he was brought up, how did he become what he is etc. The guildies are loving it and even some who have never role played before can see why I RP in game (many are now trying to join in!) I am one of the players who doesn't want to 'win' or power level (its a pleasant surprise when I gain a level) I play for fun and if it means I add a little personal touch that's fine.
With reference to Shinami's post I understand what you are trying to say and until the technology is available for me to immerse myself physically and mentally into a game world I roleplay with the best tools I have available. I am still role playing and I am enjoying it and that to me is all that matters.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The angel of death has been abroad throughout the land; you may almost hear the beating of his wings.
House of Commons, 23 Feb. 1855
i hear you. "RPG" is seeing a lot of abuse as marketing gimmick. my favorite example is Diablo, "an Action RPG", but certainly not a role-playing game. on the other hand, what some have experienced as role-playing, others were experiencing as roll-playing. for any popular table-top, there were many play-styles.
imo, role-playing is personal experience. it's different thing for different people. it comes bit (at least) odd through MMOs, where a lot of stuff is shoehorned down your senses. and "massive" doesn't really help most of the time. the more people you have, less spotlight each person gets. and spotlight IS important for role-playing.
maybe we aren't there quite yet. maybe some next generation of MMORPG will focus more on single-player experience (NOT in a way of soloing content) with more tools to flesh-out characters. from there, people can reach out to similar people to form groups, and groups can reach out to other similar groups and create community.
i don't see it possible in current stream, which is basically free-for-all. RP was always about closed group sharing. and you can't completely ignore others in most MMO.
in a way it seems MMO (massive) and RPG (personal) are on the opposite sides. but it can be done. just not from piling up everyone and hoping something stucks. instead, let people find others and build up from there.
Another great read. I was thinking about this, and realised I RP less and less in MMOs as time goes on. I actually played WoW for years on an RP server and got increasingly annoyed with the RP soi-disant "enforcers" who were trying to govern the way everyone else played. The nit-picking and elitism made me ashamed to call myself a role-player: I didn't want anyone thinking I was like one of the "enforcers".
As time wore on and I went from game to game, even though I was rolling on RP servers, RP seemed harder and harder to find. Now, playing Fallen Earth, I'm in a PvP clan, but I'll merrily RP at the drop of a hat, since FE seems to lack that elitist attitude to RP. I've run over and rezzed players' horses in lowbie zones on my character who thinks he's a vet, and have had many fun conversations arise from it. My main is a wannabe tycoon (always behind on the latest thing), and I've had fun on the forums with IC postings (outside of the RP section).
A lot of it seems to come down to the average age of players, FE attracts an older crowd, many of whom are familiar with RP from TTGs and are a lot more mellow than the younger players you find in many games who seem to view RP as something bizarre and/or threatening.
I've come to terms with the fact that RP is something I'll take when I can find, and consider it a bonus when I do. I hope that SW:TOR will have a community that embraces the RP aspect more than the average game does (on a RP server in Rift through all Betas, and so far have seen zero RP, though that could have been a time-zone thing since I'm a Euro playing on US servers), and given the interest in TOR from RP-ing RL friends, I should at least be able to roll with a group of people I know to enjoy some good RP.
RP adds a whole other dimension to gaming, it's something I'm very sad to see shrinking away.
If you wanna see how RP can quickly die, look at the Cimmeria server on Age of Conan. That's how quickly idiots can ruin it for others.
If you wanna see how RPers can be really bizzare and exclusionary, look on Antonia Bayle on Everquest 2.
If you wanna see a really healthy RP community (but not without quirks) look at LoTRO.
I am also a long time Roleplayer, I sill have my original A5 boxed set of D&D around here somewhere. So I appreciate your article. I think that we rp'ers online are part of that generation who learned our craft sitting around a table with people who, even if unknown to us that first time, became friends and allies over time. But we did not rp without talking OOC at the same time, there were bio breaks, snack breaks, going to the bar breaks for those of us that met in the local gaming club situated in the function room of a pub. So I was always used to external forces impacting upon the internal life of the game. In time we grew older some of us gained property of our own and we could host RP sessions in quieter and more salubrious settings but we were still playing roles. Tthere were still OOC asides but being friends we knew how to make them without breaking the immersion of the session. Like many of us I tried solo fantasy games on the computer this lead to also being early onto the internet back in '94 -'95. What was often happening there was a sort of rp.
While friends played Everquest I found Asheron's Call again there was a new evolution to the RP environment in that we were all thrown together in a world teeming with life, and even if many playing were Old School roleplayers, each brought their own playing style to the keyboard plus the new generation of youngsters who had never experienced pen and paper. so we adapted. In the end I have found that the best way to keep a Roleplaying atmosphere in an enviroment filled with many that "LOL" "WTF" "STFU" and other "OMG" heresies to the old school rp community was to accept and embrace them as part of the hustle and bustle of a busy background. Also to form a guild and have a rigorous application procedure. You need to be dedicated to get into the guild I run, on the otherhand it has meant that we have a strong community and form bonds with other rp communities. Sure things have changed but they have evolved playing on a keyboard will not for many years be like gathering together in one room to play, but in those day we did not have a cast of 10's or even 100's with whom we might interact.
Things have changed, evolved over the years, but those who continue to enjoy breathing life into their characters still exist in great numbers, let us watch to what the hardware and software, have for us in the future. RP'ers are a bit like the military we improvise, adapt and overcome. Bright blessings to all of us.
Do what thou wilt, and harm ye none. - Witches Rede
I am a very visual person and a old school roleplayer too. But for me the issue is not, that it is visually outlined already, it is that it is outlined LIMITED and bad.
Take characters. Simply example. ALL human men in WOW have arms like a lumberjack. No place for a lean and thin mage or a rogue like person. All have these "heroic" proportions and that moment it is no longer me. And THAT means RP for me is essentially dead. I can't play a char where I always either laugh or puke over and tbh, I always hated those uber muscular men and I HATE to play them even more. Or sometimes I even love to play a "freak char" as Mr Erickson from SWTOR would call it. I loved my Ratonga and my Sarnath from EQ2 to bits. They were ugly, but not for me. I had choice, I had something to identify with, even if other people might not understand it. But when the scope is so limited visually who I can be, I can't RP.
Like the adult men physique of DCU. I NEVER EVER could rolplay a male char in THIS sort of body. Period.
For me that is why visual diversity in char design is one of the most vital things in a MMO.
EDIT: Two notes to add.
- I am still a pen and paper roleplayer, so for me it's not something of the past, I am going to be DM later today, actually
- second, D&D is not such a good example. It leads way too much only from one battle to another. A D&D char has only very few skills not centered around combat. Try a good PnP game like the German "The Dark Eye". I am sure there are others in US, which are less "dungeon crawlers" as D&D is. SO I just think even a D&D gamer is from my perspective way too focussed on combat to know all the scope of possible RP. No offense meant.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
A quick reply about how the characters look. Does it actually matter? When playing across the table or sitting around a coffee table sipping chardonay did I look at those playing with me and say to myself "hm Richard does not look like the Malkavian he is playing so well, so I can't immerse myself into this game." no it was in my imagination what was be said, the feedback to actions, I see a charcater I am interacting with on the screen but how it come across to me depends upon his or her actions and the added emotes. If you get to play with those characters in an ongoing environment they develop the histories just as in PnP, we know their strengths and their weaknesses.
Do what thou wilt, and harm ye none. - Witches Rede
Its a shame this site only has the one credible writer on staff. If the other hacks allowed to make posts here had half the talent of Isabelle this site would be 100 times better.
Eq1 was my first mmorpg and initially i tried roleplaying within the game. I quickly came to the conclusion that computer games were the wrong forum within which to roleplay. No action you take, no creature you kill, no interaction you have with an npc ever has any lasting meaning in a computer game. No matter how revered or how despised your faction is with a particular group in a game, no path will ever open other than what is already programmed into the game.
RP when referred to computer games has nothing to do with actually playing the role or whatever. It just means that you control an avatar with some attributes and stats and stuff.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Another excellent article. Roleplaying is fun if you can find the right group.
That is really just a part of it. Many MMOs (EQ2 to mention one) have mechanics so you actually can flag yourself a s a roleplayer.
RPing is also pretending to be your character, you say what your character would say instead of what you say. "-Crow, that orc over there is a large and ugly one. -Sin, try to enchant him. -I will distract him while the rest of you give it all you can." Instatead of "-Large boss ahead, I'll tank him, Sin do CC, The rest will do DPS".
RPing or not is just something some people prefer, others don't. But good MMOs can be played many games and some guilds only talk in character while others never do it.
Some devs also considers dialogue trees from NPCs RPing.
My RL friends and I use the word "toon" to describe our MMO characters all the time. And I suppose I do see them as vehicles to project me into the game, but more like puppets I control, certainly something more interactive than a glove.
It speaks to the point of your article that I would never refer to my tabletop characters as toons. Those I refer to by name, because they do have a wealth of experiences that differentiate them from one another. In MMOs, especially themepark ( which I prefer BTW), all my toons have nearly identical experiences on the themepatrk rides. What's to set them apart? How do you RP a clone? RPing in MMOs is just not even close to the tabletop experience or worth the time in my opinion.
Another wonderful article, Iz.
I get the pleasure of reading them as I post them and love every second.
The best and only real roleplaying I've ever done was in the original Neverwinter Nights. First I played on a persistent world (HEY GLORWING PEEPS!). That was the first time I'd ever done any such thing and it was a blast. I learned how to do it right and went on to NeverwinterConnections.com and played in several months-long campaigns with a small group of players and a dynamic DM. Those were the best days ever.
After years of that, I migrated to MMOs. The closest I've found to RP in any MMO is in LOTRO. But even then, it wasn't much. It's tough to find a good, dedicated group that isn't focused on the end game and equipment acquisition. *sighs*
I'm still waiting to find a great and true roleplaying MMO. I have dim hopes, however, since there's no way to enforce OOC behavior on so-called RP servers.
Maybe we need to find a game that lots of us here at MMORPG.com love and form a guild to do it right. What do you say?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I have an entire shelf of Middle Earth Role Playing (MERP) books. I am still a bit disappointed in LOTRo when I go someplace and find things different as I spent so much time -decades!-imagining what they'ld be like.
I recreated my old MERP character on Landroval and was quickly shot down by the RP Guilds that I tried to join as none of them had even heard of it which pretty much soured me on Landroval RP- I redid a more bread and butter character. I still think 'my Middle Earth' was better.
Interesting article. I've never played table top games like that before but I did know a group of guys and a surprising healthy amount of girls who rented the apartment next door for gaming sessions. it was Interesting to hear about in thier colourfull descriptions but it wasnt for me in practice. I hope that one day the MMORPG video game evolves into something so immersive that its impossible not to role play.
MMORPG's are my second option of RPG'ing. Me and a few others, a small group, have been rping for years together - in the same "world" as MMO'ers would see it. It's been the same storyline constantly improving and progressing. All of us have multiple "characters" that we roleplay differently. There is our "GM" as some would call him, he is the sole reason this RPG exists. He is a genious to have kept it going for as long as it has been going for. He makes ALL of the main storylines, thinks of every possibility and thinks of every characters reaction to things. He alone controls over 300 characters which the rest of us see as "NPC's". There is no visual, just our imagination - aside from the artwork we all chip into. It is imense. I feel sorry for those of you who know what it's like and have lost it - a true loss. Those of you that have never done it... well, you've missed out on something amazing - no matter how others view it.
Put through the personal paces of my crippled fingers.
After reading your article I sat back, remembering some of the times of past ventures. I remember battling through the dregs of Tortage trying to earn my passage home. I found a few like minded friends, and together we fought all those who would oppose us, leaving a trail of bloodied tyranny in our wake. We won our passage, our right, and travelled back to the land of our origins.
Things were not all laden with bliss, I found I had no home left and there was much more that I had to do. My fight to travel home had only proven that I must fight once again, and there seemed no end to the oppressors before me. Luckily, there were many there to fight with me. I was brought into a guild, and they welcomed me into their fold as we held the same goals and desires. I was comforted to know that many we fighting the war with me, even if they may not hold a blade in each battle. For the first time since travelling to my homeland, did I feel like I had a home.
As I travelled from place to place, I noticed that there were many more guilds like ours, and time bred many alliances. There were many meetings between the high councils of multiple guilds, and my presence was requested more times then I would prefer, as my soul searches for the victory in battles of steel, not words. Alas, I still must not forget that I could not have walked the path I had chosen alone.
I remember meeting a strange fellow named XxXDeathMasterXxX and for obvious reasons I could not pronounce his name, so I called him Dim. He took offense to my mispronounciation of his name, to which I apoligized and called him Dum instead. His rage excalated and he swore at me in hopes that I would cower from his rage. I aptly took his head. I never was much for conversation.
Memories aside, as I don't think that I will get to have such an adventure again. Maybe I'm too old, and my adventure days are over, or maybe it's the world that has passed on. It's sad to see such glory's pass, but I will remember them fondly. Perhaps I might get to adventure again, fighting to right the wrongs of tyranny, and let my voice ring out with the battle cries of many. Perhaps, in another life.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Yeh...well....your science degree and booksmarts forgot a key ingredient in your roleplaying defintition. The word "game".
Rememeber...we're discussing "roleplaying" in games....or "roleplaying games", which alters the definition of roleplaying.
Roleplaying in a game is quite possible. You just don't understand how to do it.
In the words of Stephen Covey..."Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
Nice try though.
What and awesome idea. I'd go to any game just to be a part of this.
WOW Isabellle, when you first came here I thought ok, here's hoping but you have big shoes to fill. Now I wonder if they make shoes (metaphor) big enough. I have very much enjoyed every piece you have done.
I started with pen and paper to and sometimes miss the connection with my other self . That said I do crawl into character in a good game...and just play the others. From there it was Atari, Intellevision..hmmm, remember the imp? An early 'pc' that was, in truth, a small circuit board.
One thing that struck me in reading was the need for so many to pigeonhole games as an X or Y. Hey, thats not a true MMO because.... The same mindset jumps on the flavor of the day in bashing or praising a game with 'facts' that may have held water at one time but no longer do.
One good thing about muds was my typing speed was actually decent becaause it was the only connection to the game. Gotta admit I don't miss open world PK with full looting and corpse sac permitted in many of the early ones...wopping 30 level games.
I can really relate to Isabelle's article. As a tabletop roleplayer of a decade or two, as well as someone who started single player computer RPG's in the SSI days (Eye of the Beholder!), I really enjoyed this article. I also dislike the new term "toons" but my dislike stems from the source word "cartoons" which has nothing to do with roleplaying characters.
However, despite all this, my attempt to roleplay in an MMO lasted all of a week, I think. I quickly realized that the medium was just not suited to it. And also, the communities are too diverse and fragmented in opinion to achieve much. (Unless of course you are one of the fortunate ones to find a group online that suites your style, which I am not.)
So all I really wish for in an MMO is immersion. By immersion I simply mean that everyone is following the laid out stories and quests in a manner befitting their character and race, and I don't expect anyone to actually be roleplaying in the tabletop sense. And immersion is one thing that one used to be able to get quite readily for reasons discussed in one of Isabelle's previous articles and a few others here on mmorpg.com.
Unfortunately, even that seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs. Game Designers put so much effort into the immersion factor which is all blown away by a section of players who insist on calling themselves "BiggerOne", "Dumptruck" and "IamNinja" (just to name a few). And this by the way is all happening in the much lauded LOTRO, of which I'm a long time player. And then to further that, they get all aggressive about equipment minimums, leveling efficiencies and farming / grinding.
I don't think I'll ever understand how people can get enjoyment out of such activities, in much the same way that they probably cannot understand why their activities are spoiling my fun. Heres to a dying breed.
I feel really bad for being born in a generation that missed out the Pen'n'Paper table-top RPGs, I really want that to come back and to experience it.
I find Ultima online and Baldur's Gate to be absolutely amazing games and in my collection of favorites with more modern titles such as The Elder Scrolls series.
In MMOs unless I force myself to interact socially and get a reason to stay playing for other people I don't tend to stay long.
The closest I got to 'old skool' was text-based Role Playing in Forums online. I could easily get back into that and enjoy it longer than an MMO (maybe I just don't fit into that aspect of social gaming anymore?)
A setting made by the host, various different characters written up and thrown in by the RPers and a world crafted through their activities and not completely pre-set, and no directly linear story. Perrrfection!
Question though, am I evolving backwards?
Nice article, I'm an old school PnP RP-er and MUD-er. My main interest in MMORPG's tends to be RPing as well. I'm fortunate enough to have fallen in with a very good RPing guild in LOTRO, so that helps alot.
I think the problem with RPing in MMORPG's isn't just with the audience, although that's certainly part of it. Most games aren't built very well to support RPing. It's not that it can't be done...it's just that the mechanics of the game aren't really built with RP as a design goal...it's something that tends to happen in spite of a game rather then because of it.
A big part of what makes the magic happen in PnP games and in MUD's is not just the interaction between the player characters but also the interaction between the player characters and the game world. The players react to the environment around them...and the environment reacts to the players actions. This later is missing from modern MMORPG's. The environments tend to be static, linear and non-interactive with very little the players do having any real effect on the environment.
The watch-word for MMORPG developers tends to be "delivering content". The thing they really seemed to miss about the old school PnP experience was that the creation of content was a COLLABORATIVE effort between the GM and the Players (and the players and each other). Content was shaped as much by the players actions as it was by the GM's imagination.
This is really whats missing from modern MMORPG's. They seem to have devolved more into an E-sport that involves racking up points by defeating mobs...or by players defeating each other. Even games like the upcoming TOR which claims to want to bring the RP back into MMORPGs.... they seem more interested in TELLING a story rather then letting the players participate in the creation of the story. Remember that in old school PnP....Role-Players weren't just Actors...they were also screen-writers...writing a large part of the story in collaboration with the GM.
Even in sandbox style games, which should have better support for RPing mechanisms, the focus seems largly on PvP gankfest E-sport...which is definately NOT what RPing is about.
What's needed, IMO, to capture a bit of the old PnP feel in MMORPG is far more Live Events and the freedom of GM's to actualy BE GM's and not glorified CSR's. That and more sophisticated automated mechanisms to make the game environment more dynamic in reaction to the players.
I do see a bit of hope for this on the horizon...with systems like GW2's dynamic events system and better tools in game engines for GM's to do stuff on the fly. What we really need now is some big budget developers who aren't afraid to experiment and see if there is enough interest in real RP...if resources are invested to truely support it.
Roleplay is like herpes, the King says.
If you have it, and you spread it around when it flares up. Other people will get it. It'll go away when the cool kids are around, but every so often it shall return with a vengence and spread forth!
Roleplaying is second nature to this blue-blood. Seeking that extra something more from my online interactions with peasants is a desire of mine.
I am not in the camp of thinkers that believes developers should create specific resources to promote role-playing. Rather, building an interesting world filled with interesting things to do should suffice. It is our job to interact accordingly to what is being presented to us.
Save your gear scores for the abicus children!
Let the King lead you to a glorious victory! Then reward you most deservingly with a bracer blessed with 15 agility.
Mmmm, yes. Tis a glorious battle we shall forge ahead.
Characters live too long in MMOs to do good RP ... after a few thousand hours, I find its not fun to be playing a persona with no connection to who I really am.