2D vs. 3D: which is better for PVP?

Marere

Although I know the most known 3D games, I've never felt the same PVP feeling like in 2D ones. It's just me or what?

Adamantine

Honestly ? I would prefer morsecode or smoke signals.

Sephz

Dunno about other 2D games, but for me: UO > 3D PvP games. I have yet to find a 3D PvP game that gets me as excited as UO did back in the days.

Marere

Honestly, I'm a bit surpised that such a big Community showed such a low interest about this matter. Viceversa, a n-pvper commenting PVP matters couldn't lack: I've learnt since time ago that, due to unknown reasons, it's stronger than them.

japo

Originally posted by Marere

Honestly, I'm a bit surpised that such a big Community showed such a low interest about this matter. Viceversa, a n-pvper commenting PVP matters couldn't lack: I've learnt since time ago that, due to unknown reasons, it's stronger than them.

Huh?

Marere

Huh what? Such an answer would be more than enough to make you permahunted where I play. That's the difference between a noobish PvP environment and a harsh one.

GTwander

Originally posted by Marere

Huh what? Such an answer would be more than enough to make you permahunted where I play. That's the difference between a noobish PvP environment and a harsh one.

Do you take checks or credit cards?

Because everyone here is going to want to take a lesson in cool from you.

mrcalhou

Google Translate?

Ocirusskd

Lol!

Marere

Idk from where you guys popped out, and frankly I couldn't care less, but something tells me that you're not used to deal with harsh pvp environments: no big mouth can play there.

GTwander

Originally posted by Marere

Idk from where you guys popped out, and frankly I couldn't care less, but something tells me that you're not used to deal with harsh pvp environments: no big mouth can play there.

Them's fightin' wurds!

WE MUST KUNG FU FIGHT!!!

Marere

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Originally posted by GTwander
Them's fightin' wurds!
WE MUST KUNG FU FIGHT!!!

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I suggest you to keep playing in PvE and/or soft-pvp MMOs: a true PvP environment, where people can be kicked off, would result traumatic for innocent beings like you.

GTwander

You know, we can all see your boner from here...

Ocirusskd

Originally posted by Marere

 

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Originally posted by GTwander

Them's fightin' wurds!

WE MUST KUNG FU FIGHT!!!

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I suggest you to keep playing in PvE and/or soft-pvp MMOs: a true PvP environment, where people can be kicked off, would result traumatic for innocent beings like you.

Lol, did all this start because someone said “HUH?” To your post that I’m pretty sure made no sense, and how does this make you a hardcore pvper? lol. To the OP I really can’t stand playing 2D games, guess it’s hard to de-evolve

Loktofeit

Originally posted by Marere

Idk from where you guys popped out, and frankly I couldn't care less, but something tells me that you're not used to deal with harsh pvp environments: no big mouth can play there.

I once played TF2 with a bad ping. Does that count?

kaydinv

I don't think it has anything do with 2D or 3D.

UO (an example that someone else used), didn't have good PvP because it was 2D. It had good PvP because of a) its rules and b) its camera perspective.

The rules part is obvious, but I think the part that you're getting confused about is the camera perspective. Ultima Online could be the same exact game in 3D as long as it had the same eagle-eye camera view. You could get the same type of camera view in a lot of 3D games (temporarily until you move at least), but even if the camera stayed that way, the game wouldn't be as interesting as UO unless it had good rules (spell cancellation on any hit, unable to heal through poison, etc...) and complex abilities/spells (Explosion, Mind Blast, Energy Field, etc...).

Today's games are lesser because they're designed so any moron can do well enough to feel successful and because lazy design like heavy focus on cooldowns have turned the games into shitty versions of Simon Says.

Hotkey 1...

Hotkey 2...

Hotkey 3...

Hotkey 4...

Oh look! Hotkey 1 is up again!

jaxinknight

It's not so much lazy design. Its more lazy players.

Look at all the games that try and do something different. When age of conan FIRST came on the scene and was slated for release in October of 2007, the game supported a combo system not unlike a fighting game, there were no " click this button to start your aggro generation combo" abilities, it was " up left right left up" then the aggro gen started. the more elaborate the combo the more effects you did. The goal was to allow infinite stringing together of combo abilites with " clickable" burst abilities beign used to augment strikes. 

Bow skills were like a first person shooter, want to snare someone? shoot them in the leg.

Mounted Combat was similar to mount and blade. Velocity and momentum played a part and you did damage from horseback.

Casters were a brand new thing, They didn't have superior one click spells. They had few abilities that could be used on the run save for the herald of xotli. Instead to do any damage casters had to spellweave, activating a combo system kinda like guitar hero with a keyboard. they were vulnerable in this state but powerful. Spellweave too much, if you die you went to hell and had to work your way back out.

THEN closed beta started. 

People complained that the system was to complex, the combos were too hard to remember, the casters weren't easy to play, the rangers were too twitchy. Everything needed to be more like wow.

 

Funcom pushes release date 6 months reworks the system and is forced to launch an unpolished version of their game due to taking development time that should have been used to polish content, hire voice actors, and itemize the game in order to revamp a core system that was changed because players are lazy.

Marere

I've found this William Murtog's article:

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With the market being saturated with games requiring cutting edge technology platforms and connections such as World of Warcraft, City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa, Warhammer, and Age of Conan, is there really a point to playing a 2d game? Even though the obvious answer may appear to be no, the real answer is an emphatic yes!

One of the main reasons people choose 2d mmorpgs over their 3d counterparts is because of system requirements and capabilities. To currently run World Of Warcraft one needs a pretty updated computer, not to mention graphics card; in comparison most 2d mmo's don't have strict minimum requirements and can be played by the masses, including countries that are just getting into the technology era. This is important as it allows users from all over to join in and get a true sense of community vs a game where it can only be played by the 'well-off' or richer areas of the world.

Besides a less strict requirement to play and bigger available player base, 2d games can give the user a "General's" mentality when playing the game. In 3d games one is often in first person view or very close to it and they can only see from that perspective. In a 2d mmorpg a user can see the whole screen/field and make decisions based on that. It tends to lead to a less stressful, more fullfilling experience as you see all around you.

Going back to technology, 2d games technology and artwork are pretty much mastered at this point, whereas 3d games are still evolving to become more real and less polygon like. A 2d game made today can have the best 2d graphics which could either look realistic or go for a clean/crisp/bright cartoon look; The ability to make the game as intentioned is a huge plus for 2d video games and games like diablo II, starcraft II, and revamped Ultima Online prove how great 2d graphics can now look.

Another huge advantage is movement and pvp. Currently 3d pvp is awkward and less related to movement on screen as compared with button mashing, unless you're playing a FPS. 2d games are easier to maneuver for now and give the user greater control over his character/avatar. This allows for more precision attacks and movement within the virtual world; old school ultima online is a classic example of how an easy interface, simple graphics, and movement made it one of the greatest pvp games of all time. In contrast, DAoC was laggy, buggy, and movement was very non user friendly. Five years later in World of Warcraft it has improved dramatically but the time/spatial relations in 3d have not been mastered so pvp in that environment will never be as consistent as that of a 2d game today.

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Do you agree?

Vizza

"The ability to make the game as intentioned is a huge plus for 2d video games and games like diablo II, starcraft II, and revamped Ultima Online prove how great 2d graphics can now look."

I thought starcraft 2 was 3D, but eagle-eye perspective as kaydinv  mentioned. So it's not a matter of 3d or 2d, you're just confused.

Fawarendan

I would vote for isometric perspective, since it provides more awariness of the environment around you (something good for PvP).

demonic87

The OP's second post is still causing my head to spin.