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Cataclysm - My take on it so far

GarfunkelGarfunkel Member UncommonPosts: 224

I went into Cataclysm determined not to like it. They were messing with the map and making some pretty broad changes to the 0-60 game which didn't all sound like great decisions. However on rerolling another alt and trying it I got to say I'm loving the new feel.


 


Graphically Azeroth has had quite a boost, not just in resolution but in particle effects and atmospheric window dressing with small details such as birds, ground and atmospheric clutter, etc. which has brought the environments to life.


 


The levelling curve is certainly A LOT faster now which can be taken as both a good and a bad thing (good from my perspective).


 


With my 80's my feedback on the journey to 85 is also just as positive I'm afraid (apologies to the haters!). It's a very well done, streamlined and polished experience and I have to say I take my hat off to them. Which is kind of a kick in the teeth to me as I was wanting to really rip them apart for spoiling the game. So far this is panning out to be my favourite evolution of WoW so far.


 


A lot of people are saying the 80-85 journey is too short.  I suppose it can be if you go without sleep for 3 days. The more 'normal' majority of the player base will get from 80 to 85 in about 15-18 hours of play. it isn't about a endless journey to the level cap this time - it's about rerolling.


 


70% of the dev time and money has clearly gone on remastering Azeroth and the 0-60 experience and they've brought 2 new races to boot. Some would take that as a pretty big hint to go try the new content?   

_________________________________________
You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?

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Comments

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    15-18 hours of play for an average player really sounds short to me...

    And I think the main idea of the expansions isn't about re rolling but about getting the game attractive to new players again.

    If Wow wants to continue be the largest game in the west it needs sooner or later new blood again and the number of people trying the game for the first time and then start to sub is clearly down the last 2 years so Blizzard decided to make the game better for new players. That old players reroll is more of a side effect.

    If the expansion did well or not is something we really wont know for a while yet. 

    Blizzard are not stupid and they do need to make the game more attractive to new players once again.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Originally posted by Loke666

    15-18 hours of play for an average player really sounds short to me...

    And I think the main idea of the expansions isn't about re rolling but about getting the game attractive to new players again.

    If Wow wants to continue be the largest game in the west it needs sooner or later new blood again and the number of people trying the game for the first time and then start to sub is clearly down the last 2 years so Blizzard decided to make the game better for new players. That old players reroll is more of a side effect.

    If the expansion did well or not is something we really wont know for a while yet. 

    Blizzard are not stupid and they do need to make the game more attractive to new players once again.

         Which is interesting.. Clearly WoW has stalled the last couple years.. People are getting tired of the same game play.. grind end game to keep jumping through each new tier hoops.. Take into consideration that many players that are burned out on rerolling alts, and wish to not partake in WoW's Esport end game.. Cataclysm did spark alot of old customers to resub to see what changes took place, but it's obvious to me, this new spark will be short lived and populations per server will drop again..

        So I have to ask.. Has anyone from Blizzard ever ackowledge or released the information on the top 5 reasons why people left WoW after subbing for 6 months or longer.. Instead they focused on "immediate" satisfaction of why didn't get past the 14 day trial.. Sooner or later the number one problem will be "Why ar they leaving?".. By the time that happens, it will be too late to program any significant changes, such as player housing, mentoring, or meaningful PvE end game that isn't instanced or Esport.. Normally in the course of business, a company will last longer taking a proactive stance, then a reactive one..  But then computer games industry are a creature of their own..

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Rydeson

         Which is interesting.. Clearly WoW has stalled the last couple years.. People are getting tired of the same game play.. grind end game to keep jumping through each new tier hoops.. Take into consideration that many players that are burned out on rerolling alts, and wish to not partake in WoW's Esport end game.. Cataclysm did spark alot of old customers to resub to see what changes took place, but it's obvious to me, this new spark will be short lived and populations per server will drop again..

        So I have to ask.. Has anyone from Blizzard ever ackowledge or released the information on the top 5 reasons why people left WoW after subbing for 6 months or longer.. Instead they focused on "immediate" satisfaction of why didn't get past the 14 day trial.. Sooner or later the number one problem will be "Why ar they leaving?".. By the time that happens, it will be too late to program any significant changes, such as player housing, mentoring, or meaningful PvE end game that isn't instanced or Esport.. Normally in the course of business, a company will last longer taking a proactive stance, then a reactive one..  But then computer games industry are a creature of their own..

    Good question. Another good one is why some people stay for 6 years (some of my friends been in since launch) while other get tired pretty fast.

    I think Wow would need to offer more things to do in the endgame. The players who solo can't do anything at all in the endgame, and the crafters have very little to do as well.

    I am not saying that it is something wrong with the endgame but I do think since the game is so more focused on it now than in vanilla it needs to have more options. If you don't like raids and battleground you have very little to do.

    Among my buddies who play or have played Wow are most of the raiders and many of the battleground fans still playing. The ones that prefer other part of the game have quit. That should tell us something.

    Of course is this not just about Wow but the other similar games as well.

  • SquishydewSquishydew Member UncommonPosts: 1,107

    While i dont think Cataclysm is bad, i didn't like it anymore then the other expansions.

    I leveled a Shadow priest up to 85, got him geared for heroics, and quit short after.

     

    Dont get me wrong, the new difficulty in heroics is great, but PuGs hardly stand a chance against it - I always seem to get those tanks who've never heard of CC and just charge through HC's as if the healer has infinite mana.

    This lead to my decision to quit for a month or so, until I'm able to play with my guildies in the hope they'll have dinged by then.

     

    I absolutely loved Azeroth - But leveling is to fast.

    Thats right, to fast.

     

    Doing a single instance can sometimes mean skipping half a zone, which is terrible.. You miss out on so much content its not even fun anymore, heirlooms are pretty much obsolete, and in the future when guilds start leveling up, you could get up to a 50% ( might be a bit inaccurate ) XP bonus - Which is just TO MUCH.

     

    There is absolutely nothing left for the casual player, even playing a hour a day you'll level to 60 to fast to enjoy it, and then get to the burning crusade which is a horrid abomination compared to the smooth ride you now get in Azeroth.

     

    I may enjoy this expansion once the majority of the players gets back in to raiding, but right now It's horrible.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Rydeson

         Which is interesting.. Clearly WoW has stalled the last couple years.. People are getting tired of the same game play.. grind end game to keep jumping through each new tier hoops.. Take into consideration that many players that are burned out on rerolling alts, and wish to not partake in WoW's Esport end game.. Cataclysm did spark alot of old customers to resub to see what changes took place, but it's obvious to me, this new spark will be short lived and populations per server will drop again..

        So I have to ask.. Has anyone from Blizzard ever ackowledge or released the information on the top 5 reasons why people left WoW after subbing for 6 months or longer.. Instead they focused on "immediate" satisfaction of why didn't get past the 14 day trial.. Sooner or later the number one problem will be "Why ar they leaving?".. By the time that happens, it will be too late to program any significant changes, such as player housing, mentoring, or meaningful PvE end game that isn't instanced or Esport.. Normally in the course of business, a company will last longer taking a proactive stance, then a reactive one..  But then computer games industry are a creature of their own..

    Good question. Another good one is why some people stay for 6 years (some of my friends been in since launch) while other get tired pretty fast.

    I think Wow would need to offer more things to do in the endgame. The players who solo can't do anything at all in the endgame, and the crafters have very little to do as well.

    I am not saying that it is something wrong with the endgame but I do think since the game is so more focused on it now than in vanilla it needs to have more options. If you don't like raids and battleground you have very little to do.

    Among my buddies who play or have played Wow are most of the raiders and many of the battleground fans still playing. The ones that prefer other part of the game have quit. That should tell us something.

    Of course is this not just about Wow but the other similar games as well.

    it is a lot more focused than Vanilla because Vanilla had an absolute terrible end game. Yeah, logging for 24 hours to get PVP rank 1 sure sounds like fun! Or Molten Core/AQ/BWL with its 40 people raiding that was used for what? not even half of the player base at the time.

    Naxx 1.0 was seen by 1% or something that they brought it back and it was new content for 99% of its playerbase.

    I think the move to 25man then to 10/25 split was a brilliant move. Keep the players engaged, show them new stuff every few months but take the 'burden' of 'now i need to get 30+ players' out of it.

    Some like the whole 'we need 50+ players' aspect but WoW proved that majority of the player base does not want to deal with 'out of game' issues. I am playing a game, why should an out of game experience get in the way?

    Everytime they made it more easier to get into 'endgame' their subs rose; Vanilla -> TBC -> Wrath

    I think the market spoke in very definitive words and smart businesses listens to the market. :)

    They actually added in a few more 'endgame' options from Vanilla: Arenas was TBC, 5man LFD was Wrath, rated BG was Cata

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    everything begin at 85 !so i dont care for the journey to 85 take 1 hour ,getting all the lore etc will take a long while at 85.be it trough proff or dungeon and raiding,still no world raid pvp unless i havent seen it .the major issue blizzard fact is server over pop and faction over pop wich doesnt sound a big deal in rp server but is a major negative on pvp server,they should add a 10% lock on server .exemple

    if horde has 10% more player then ally then lock kick in and horde cant create new  character in any way till balance is restored (full server)for non full server you could create another character if you already have character on said server (only if its less then full)

    aside from that i got to say love the way cataclysm is.the fact that blizzard brought usefullness back to cc (rogue or other)and other various goody is a nice improvement ,oh some whine that the dungeon are too hard they re not that hard they just arent gold seller friendly.no more mindless playing .wich in my book is a good thing.you get plenty of time to react but for the spammer it will be a learning curve if they never experienced vanilla!

    i sure love cataclysm

    and the look !wow major improvement ,nono its still cartoony but better looking cartoony!

  • andrzcieiandrzciei Member Posts: 39

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Rydeson

         Which is interesting.. Clearly WoW has stalled the last couple years.. People are getting tired of the same game play.. grind end game to keep jumping through each new tier hoops.. Take into consideration that many players that are burned out on rerolling alts, and wish to not partake in WoW's Esport end game.. Cataclysm did spark alot of old customers to resub to see what changes took place, but it's obvious to me, this new spark will be short lived and populations per server will drop again..

        So I have to ask.. Has anyone from Blizzard ever ackowledge or released the information on the top 5 reasons why people left WoW after subbing for 6 months or longer.. Instead they focused on "immediate" satisfaction of why didn't get past the 14 day trial.. Sooner or later the number one problem will be "Why ar they leaving?".. By the time that happens, it will be too late to program any significant changes, such as player housing, mentoring, or meaningful PvE end game that isn't instanced or Esport.. Normally in the course of business, a company will last longer taking a proactive stance, then a reactive one..  But then computer games industry are a creature of their own..

    Good question. Another good one is why some people stay for 6 years (some of my friends been in since launch) while other get tired pretty fast.

    I think Wow would need to offer more things to do in the endgame. The players who solo can't do anything at all in the endgame, and the crafters have very little to do as well.

    I am not saying that it is something wrong with the endgame but I do think since the game is so more focused on it now than in vanilla it needs to have more options. If you don't like raids and battleground you have very little to do.

    Among my buddies who play or have played Wow are most of the raiders and many of the battleground fans still playing. The ones that prefer other part of the game have quit. That should tell us something.

    Of course is this not just about Wow but the other similar games as well.

    I no longer play WoW.  Too busy for games.

    I use to play WoW on and off before the latest changes in life.  WoW is good for people who enjoys mild variety in gameplay under casual setting.  WoW caters to a wide spectrum, and is best served as an element in a wider basket of entertainments.  Dip into it on and off, and WoW will age slowly.

    WoW does not offer too much depth for some form of gameplay.  The raids are among the best among the major MMOs, the instanced PVP very active and reasonably balanced with little hacking, the crafted vs dropped gear balance moderately well.  But that is about all there is.  There is no huge grinder.  There is less and less exploration (no idea about cata, I never order that), there are less and less world pvp (which to me, is both good and bad).  For those dedicated to just one way of playing a game, WoW might be lacking.

    So for some WoW is a slowly aging vintage, which is nice to revisit on and off, for years.  For some others, WoW ages almost instantly.

    As for the green text, I have this as reply

    Your doomsday warning has been echoed since day 1 of WoW, after 6 years of crying wolves, I think it is time to stand down.  No other game has 6 years shelf life.  WoW sells 3million + copies in day 1 after being in the market for 6 years.  If anyone game need to worry about sub base, WoW is about the last to join this rank.

    I do not think that WoW has stalled, at least not over the years I did play.  They changed their emphasis over the course of 6 years.  That is natural.  Hell, if you look at McD and KFC in China, they are changing their menu by the week.

    I hardly see Blizz as a passive developer, quite the contrary.  The "science" behind a game can hardly be more impressive. from the statistics they collect through the servers, to the human engineering concept behind the UIs, from the GMs to the free content patches, they are about the most "productive" developer ever.  The re-programming of the entire 1-60 zones are given as a free content patch, you do not need to pay cata fees for that.  EQ1, in its hey days, would have charged us 6 xpacs just for that kind of content.

    Whether you like it or not, is a personal issue, nothing wrong or right there, just you and your personal taste.

    Me for one, has stopped playing it.  I find better use of my time now, even for the last waking minutes, I find better use than electronic games.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by jpnz

    it is a lot more focused than Vanilla because Vanilla had an absolute terrible end game. Yeah, logging for 24 hours to get PVP rank 1 sure sounds like fun! Or Molten Core/AQ/BWL with its 40 people raiding that was used for what? not even half of the player base at the time.

    Naxx 1.0 was seen by 1% or something that they brought it back and it was new content for 99% of its playerbase.

    I think the move to 25man then to 10/25 split was a brilliant move. Keep the players engaged, show them new stuff every few months but take the 'burden' of 'now i need to get 30+ players' out of it.

    Some like the whole 'we need 50+ players' aspect but WoW proved that majority of the player base does not want to deal with 'out of game' issues. I am playing a game, why should an out of game experience get in the way?

    Everytime they made it more easier to get into 'endgame' their subs rose; Vanilla -> TBC -> Wrath

    I think the market spoke in very definitive words and smart businesses listens to the market. :)

    They actually added in a few more 'endgame' options from Vanilla: Arenas was TBC, 5man LFD was Wrath, rated BG was Cata

    I don't actually think that the subs increased with Wrath, they just went up 2 months and down again when old players got into the game, leveled up. played a bit of endgame and then left again. It will in fact be very interesting to see if that will happen again now or not.

    I don't think that having a few raids like Naxx is really a problem, sure, few players see it but even the hardcore raiders deserve some content just for them.

    I think it is more than there should be both easy and hard endgame. I think 10/25/40 raids all could have place in the same game as well as I think they could add endgame even for soloplayers, crafters and all other types playing the game. I don't see how anything like that could do anything but increase the players.

    Everyone deserve an endgame no matter what playstyle they have. 

    Of course they got more players when they made the endgame available to a larger part but what I say is that they should make endgame for everyone. Soloplayers play to 85, then make alts. After the leveled up enough character they quit.

    But as paying customers they deserve their endgame as well as you do.

    And the few options you mentioned is of course good but far from enough. 

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    speaking of end game.. I heard that some guilds have already defeated all but 1 raid boss on normal mode and Paragon guild has already down the first 3 raids bosses on 25 man heroic mode.. and the game isnt' even 2 weeks old yet.. WOW..

  • starstar Member Posts: 1,101

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    speaking of end game.. I heard that some guilds have already defeated all but 1 raid boss on normal mode and Paragon guild has already down the first 3 raids bosses on 25 man heroic mode.. and the game isnt' even 2 weeks old yet.. WOW..

    25 people [and possibly the best 25 players in the game] out of over 3.5 million, who spent many, many, many hours on the PTR learning these encounters.

    image

  • andrzcieiandrzciei Member Posts: 39

    Originally posted by star

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    speaking of end game.. I heard that some guilds have already defeated all but 1 raid boss on normal mode and Paragon guild has already down the first 3 raids bosses on 25 man heroic mode.. and the game isnt' even 2 weeks old yet.. WOW..

    25 people [and possibly the best 25 players in the game] out of over 3.5 million, who spent many, many, many hours on the PTR learning these encounters.

    Those top guilds do not play WoW, they play PTR.  They have been semi involved in tuning every new content for wow for ages, as they test out every boss for Blizz.  They have worked out every strategy and tactics during the PTR.  They only need to play out the live content to max level and getting the necessary gear to deliver the punch.  Killing the actual boss in live server is just a re-run of the already worked out strategy.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    speaking of end game.. I heard that some guilds have already defeated all but 1 raid boss on normal mode and Paragon guild has already down the first 3 raids bosses on 25 man heroic mode.. and the game isnt' even 2 weeks old yet.. WOW..

    Shouldn't a 'boss' be 'killable'?

    I mean if a boss is going to be unkillable why is it in the game? ?_?

    Even in FFXI didn't that '48 hour try to kill this boss but failed' boss cause such a negative feedback that Square-Enix said 'sorry' and fix it?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • andrzcieiandrzciei Member Posts: 39

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    speaking of end game.. I heard that some guilds have already defeated all but 1 raid boss on normal mode and Paragon guild has already down the first 3 raids bosses on 25 man heroic mode.. and the game isnt' even 2 weeks old yet.. WOW..

    Shouldn't a 'boss' be 'killable'?

    I mean if a boss is going to be unkillable why is it in the game? ?_?

    Even in FFXI didn't that '48 hour try to kill this boss but failed' boss cause such a negative feedback that Square-Enix said 'sorry' and fix it?

    Actually some of the bosses in the past (notably EQ) are so hard to kill, only a few guilds per server can manage to see him and wipe at his feet during the early months of releasing that boss.  In the old EQ1 days, it took days just to clear the way to the boss.

    WoW bosses are getting more and more killable.  Sometimes the raids are hard to start with but over time, they make "older" raid instances easier and easier, gradually letting the less "rigorous" guilds try it out.  Hell, my friend killed the Lich King in a PUG, ok it is a very well run PUG with experienced and geared players.

    I heard from my guildies that Blizz make dungeons and raids harder with cata.  No longer pull everything and aoe.  I stopped playing WoW already but I still dine with my guildies once in a while.  Never seen them after cata.  Only chat with them via online media.

  • Zookz1Zookz1 Member Posts: 629

    I got my main to 85, ran the heroics, a raid, tried out the new PVP, leveled archeology, and leveled my professions. Unfortunately for me, it's still the same old WoW that I've been playing for the last few years. It was exciting to be challenged in the new content, but that was quickly replaced by the grind for gear so that I could go grind a different color of gear and after that I'd grind the different color of gear that has higher stats. That said, I think WoW is easily the best MMO of its type ever created, and Cataclysm only added to that greatness, but WoW is still WoW, and I am looking for something new.

  • Hekke29Hekke29 Member UncommonPosts: 102

    Originally posted by Zookz1

    I got my main to 85, ran the heroics, a raid, tried out the new PVP, leveled archeology, and leveled my professions. Unfortunately for me, it's still the same old WoW that I've been playing for the last few years. It was exciting to be challenged in the new content, but that was quickly replaced by the grind for gear so that I could go grind a different color of gear and after that I'd grind the different color of gear that has higher stats. That said, I think WoW is easily the best MMO of its type ever created, and Cataclysm only added to that greatness, but WoW is still WoW, and I am looking for something new.

    exactly that, first time since Vanilla i didnt kill a raid boss at first raid (pvp TolBarad boss we did, but that doesnt count), thats great, and possible only becouse we with purpose didnt play at PTR, but at 347ilvl we started doing hero dungeons at mainly AoE... not all ofc, but some easily, and thats not so good...

     

    not even 2 weeks from release, and i already started new alts, few friends in guild already have 3 chars at 85, 2 of them able to enter hero...

     

    and still about 5 months till new addiction...eh  ;)

     

    “Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.” Dr.Seuss

  • andrzcieiandrzciei Member Posts: 39

    Why not mix WoW with other form of entertainment.  If you play basketball for 40 hours a week you would have to go out onto the field too.

  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    It was a great idea to revamp the 1-60 areas. I tried coming back to WoW after almost two years a few months ago, but it felt old and tired. I've had a much better experience so far this time around.

    However, there is a big difference between the revamp to Kalimdor and the revamp to the Eastern Kingdoms. The Kalimdor revamp is superb. The Eastern Kingdoms? Very, very pale in comparison. I don't know if they ran out of time, or if they had two seperate teams doing the revamp and the Eastern Kingdoms team just sucked, but I find it very disappointing. It's not just the scope of the comparative changes, but the quality of the resulting play experience. If you want to get the most out of the new 1-60 experience, stick to Kalimdor. (This is from the Alliance perspective, I can't comment on Horde, although I've read similar comments about that side of the changes).

    I also have to agree with people who are disappointed by how little new content was added to support the new cap from 80-85. Blizzard has tons of money. There is no excuse not to hire as big a team as needed in order to ensure sufficient content for an expansion pack.

    Also, the fact that so many features and improvements that were hinted at or have been asked for over the years have not been implimented is just plain sad. Hero Classes? Were supposed to be a pretty big part of the future of the game. We got one in six years. Housing? There was talk of housing with in 6 to 12 months after the initial release of the game. Where did that go? Quality of armor models? The new armor you get from the main quest lines looks great, too bad almost everything else in the game that existed more than a few years ago still looks horrible. How about allowing the ability to better chose your look? Either using a system similar to LotRO, where you display items equiped to a cosmetic tab, while getting your stats from what you are wearing underneath, or Aion's system of allowing you to reskin an item with the skin of another? The horrible mish mash of armor skins has long been a black mark on the game, not to hard to hire some talented texture artists and redo the old, garish armors!

    In short, yes, I'm enjoying the somewhat refreshed WoW experience, but I still can't believe how this company, with buckets of money AND talent, continues to produce the very, very minumum when it comes to adding to and improving the game. I guess you can say that their success allows them to be unproductive and money speaks, but it's always disappointing to see something fall so darn short of it's potential. More so because even after 6 years, they still haven't figured it out. (I guess we can also blame the fact that no other Western MMO has put a real dent in WoW's numbers. Competition breeds innovation and there hasn't been anyone to really challange the financial success of WoW).

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly Member UncommonPosts: 734

    well I can't tell I'm great player, more like ok & casual.

    what I enjoyed in WoW was: I could swap activities like questing a bit, then run some dungeons, then grind reputations, then skilling etc. BG  I rarely done (not big fan of pvp) & raids were something to be planned in advance with time & such to spend on them.

    now with Cata... as lvl 85 and already superior with pve/pvp mixed gear =DD I still get BAD time in heroic dungeons, may be they should be that hard, why not, only IMO not in WoW. Imagine new player who'll fast & easily level till 80 & dropped to hell after. For my part I feel bored of waiting time for random, and/or wipes at most of mobs (depends on dungeon they are harder then LK bosses, not sure if it good for others but sure not for me). To be honest I don't feel like spend 2-3 hours in each heroic dungeon before finish it or fail at the end (very often now).

    Fishing is not fun anymore as we don't need fish for cooking (fast maxed it, no fun at all). maxed 1 skill, almost maxed 2nd & bored again.

    New second skill is just boring so far. well my level is only about 100, don't feel it like fun to do.

    All new quests are done, zones explored.

    So what I have left to do? pvp with 5-10 min waiting time till BG (not bad but as I told I'm not big fan of it), or 30-45 min waiting for HC then wipe and back to wait, or get guild tank and healer and slowly getting through which can take 2-3 hours easy...

    I guess it not my fun at all, so I finish my payed month and go play something more fun and easy.

    Beside many players are happy with idea that casual guys will stop play, as they will be alone to do show off.=D

     

     

     

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • comerbcomerb Member UncommonPosts: 944

    There are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who will play videogames... and those who won't. Of those who play videogames, there are 2 additional kinds.  Those who play MMORPGS, and those who don't.

    You generally aren't going to get people who don't play videogames to play videogames, atleast not in large numbers.  And you aren't going to get non MMORPG players to play your game w/out changing it to the point that you are alienating your current clientbase.

    What you are left with is a fairly stagnant pool of gamers who will play MMORPGS, and every single one of them has tried WoW.    You aren't expanding your horizons to an additional population pool, you are simply recycling players who are coming back to the game.

    This is why they aren't targeting new players.  They really don't exist.  Sure, you'll get a handful of people that are introduced to it by girlfriends/boyfriends... or kids that are growing up... but there isn't this vast pool of people you are going to tap into.

    To say WoW is "stalled" is kinda silly.  It maintains an extremely large percentage of a finite population pool, and that percentage isn't going down.  Their focus isn't gaining new players, its maintaining current population and regaining old players.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by andrzciei

    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by Rydeson

    speaking of end game.. I heard that some guilds have already defeated all but 1 raid boss on normal mode and Paragon guild has already down the first 3 raids bosses on 25 man heroic mode.. and the game isnt' even 2 weeks old yet.. WOW..

    Shouldn't a 'boss' be 'killable'?

    I mean if a boss is going to be unkillable why is it in the game? ?_?

    Even in FFXI didn't that '48 hour try to kill this boss but failed' boss cause such a negative feedback that Square-Enix said 'sorry' and fix it?

    Actually some of the bosses in the past (notably EQ) are so hard to kill, only a few guilds per server can manage to see him and wipe at his feet during the early months of releasing that boss.  In the old EQ1 days, it took days just to clear the way to the boss.

    WoW bosses are getting more and more killable.  Sometimes the raids are hard to start with but over time, they make "older" raid instances easier and easier, gradually letting the less "rigorous" guilds try it out.  Hell, my friend killed the Lich King in a PUG, ok it is a very well run PUG with experienced and geared players.

    I heard from my guildies that Blizz make dungeons and raids harder with cata.  No longer pull everything and aoe.  I stopped playing WoW already but I still dine with my guildies once in a while.  Never seen them after cata.  Only chat with them via online media.

    I am not sure why letting only a few % of the playerbase have a go at the boss is considered a good idea.

    I think it is an absolute horrible idea in terms of return on investments.

    'Hey, we'll spend the next 5 months designing this hard raid that only 2% can see!'

    A gamer wants to see content and if the difficulty level is so high that not many can attain that, you are going to be left with a playerbase that's going to be pretty bored.

    In wrath I think they went a bit overboard but the hardmodes held up damn well until the 'nerf' 3 weeks before Cata happened.

    To be honest, I think the hard/normal modes is something that's really cool. Putting the choice back into the player's hand is always good. :)

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • andrzcieiandrzciei Member Posts: 39

    Originally posted by jpnz

    ...

    I am not sure why letting only a few % of the playerbase have a go at the boss is considered a good idea.

    I think it is an absolute horrible idea in terms of return on investments.

    'Hey, we'll spend the next 5 months designing this hard raid that only 2% can see!'

    A gamer wants to see content and if the difficulty level is so high that not many can attain that, you are going to be left with a playerbase that's going to be pretty bored.

    In wrath I think they went a bit overboard but the hardmodes held up damn well until the 'nerf' 3 weeks before Cata happened.

    To be honest, I think the hard/normal modes is something that's really cool. Putting the choice back into the player's hand is always good. :)

    100% agree

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly Member UncommonPosts: 734

    Originally posted by andrzciei

    Originally posted by jpnz


    ...

    I am not sure why letting only a few % of the playerbase have a go at the boss is considered a good idea.

    I think it is an absolute horrible idea in terms of return on investments.

    'Hey, we'll spend the next 5 months designing this hard raid that only 2% can see!'

    A gamer wants to see content and if the difficulty level is so high that not many can attain that, you are going to be left with a playerbase that's going to be pretty bored.

    In wrath I think they went a bit overboard but the hardmodes held up damn well until the 'nerf' 3 weeks before Cata happened.

    To be honest, I think the hard/normal modes is something that's really cool. Putting the choice back into the player's hand is always good. :)

    100% agree

     exactly!  so I guess many guys who don't like hard mod or use it rarely will just stop playing WoW, not sure if people would like to make alts if they knows how hard & brief end game is. at least I'll take break now & see if something get nerved, if not I guess not only WoW can be played.

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • sultharsulthar Member Posts: 298

    Originally posted by Loke666

    15-18 hours of play for an average player really sounds short to me...

    And I think the main idea of the expansions isn't about re rolling but about getting the game attractive to new players again.

    If Wow wants to continue be the largest game in the west it needs sooner or later new blood again and the number of people trying the game for the first time and then start to sub is clearly down the last 2 years so Blizzard decided to make the game better for new players. That old players reroll is more of a side effect.

    If the expansion did well or not is something we really wont know for a while yet. 

    Blizzard are not stupid and they do need to make the game more attractive to new players once again.

     We dont care about the 15-18hr to lv 85, Wow is all about endgame. None has even scratched endgame potency.

  • sultharsulthar Member Posts: 298

    Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

    Originally posted by andrzciei

    Originally posted by jpnz

    ...

    I am not sure why letting only a few % of the playerbase have a go at the boss is considered a good idea.

    I think it is an absolute horrible idea in terms of return on investments.

    'Hey, we'll spend the next 5 months designing this hard raid that only 2% can see!'

    A gamer wants to see content and if the difficulty level is so high that not many can attain that, you are going to be left with a playerbase that's going to be pretty bored.

    In wrath I think they went a bit overboard but the hardmodes held up damn well until the 'nerf' 3 weeks before Cata happened.

    To be honest, I think the hard/normal modes is something that's really cool. Putting the choice back into the player's hand is always good. :)

    100% agree

     exactly!  so I guess many guys who don't like hard mod or use it rarely will just stop playing WoW, not sure if people would like to make alts if they knows how hard & brief end game is. at least I'll take break now & see if something get nerved, if not I guess not only WoW can be played.

     Well i guess that makes 3 of you... all the people that played Wow on the last 4-6 months did like the endgame. They had no new content to play with but still enjoyed the game.

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly Member UncommonPosts: 734

     

     Well i guess that makes 3 of you... all the people that played Wow on the last 4-6 months did like the endgame. They had no new content to play with but still enjoyed the game.

     just wonder how you can be sure that all people like endgame and more as you tell they have nothing new? what they enjoy then?

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

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