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Alganon - seems to be moving in the right direction

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Comments

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905

    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by dsmart

    I don't particularly care what anyone else thinks or believes.


    I actually hate the way this game is attacked just for being a traditonal MMO with some nice touches by the idiot masses, I think these days its a solid title that should in a fair world do well. I actually prefer it to LotR in a lot of ways. My only issue with it really is that it's a F2P cash shop game, which I hate, but thats MY issue, not the games. I won't hate it for being what it is, just because it dosent meet my needs.

    I also hate the fact that so many come just to argue with Derek, no matter what he says, which has become a game in itself apparently over the years. To me it just seems pedantic and stupid, and it honestly scares me a little the way people maintain these vendettas on the internet for so long. 

    Saying that though, Derek, don't say stuff like this when you are the representative of your game and your company... It's just really counter productiive to your cause and serves only to alienate potentiol customers. I have no issue with you, and actually loathe hate campaigns like the one I have seen waged against you on a personal level, but when I read this I think... well, f**k you too. The game in itself, for it's target audience, is too good to be killed off by these ongoing forum battles. Think about that, because thats whats happening ... Alganon is definitly only being hurt in the crossfire this time. :/

    I'm gonna have to side with Mr. Smart on this one and this is why:

     

    Imagine you owned a bar and you put a vocal, no nonsense bar manager in charge. Now for you as the owner the bottom line is paying customers and staying in the black. Your manager's job is to serve those customers, make the tough descisions and if need be, refuse to serve belligerent, ill-mannered customers no matter if they are paying or not. It's because you're running a business not a school. The manager has the right to refuse anyone service that he doesn't not particularly care for, especially if they only snack on peanuts, not ordering any drinks and constantly demand the owners to fire the manager. But the customers that do pay are fine with the atmosphere that the manager is providing, they really don't care how many people frequent the bar, nor do they care for freeloaders who bad mouth the manager whenever he voices postitive feedback about the owners, bar and paying customers he IS working for. Makes sense to you? It doesn't matter if you like the manager, bouncer, security or police officer. They are there to provide a peaceful environment for paying/civil patrons they are not there to provide you with customer service, they hire people for that.

    Thats a really long example that basically says 'it's ok to be a pr*ck to your customer base and not to care what they think about it'.

    I actually am actually a pub manager in RL and I recognise the fact that, in the end, the customers are my boss. Without them my business is nothing. I would never stand in my paying customers faces and say what Derek says here... I might think it, but I would never say it.

    If someone is being an ass, then address that person on a personal basis if you need to (though there are more dignified ways of handling the situation tbh), but to make blanket statements like in my original quote here? That is counterproductive and alienating to a far wider public.

    But back on topic, I'm glad Alganon is making a turn for the better. I had my eye on this game since beta and was hoping to give it a spin but was disappointed by the level of familarity it had with WoW. And that turned me off to it. I'm glad to see that steps have been taken to change this issue. Maybe soon in the future I will come back. No matter how many players are actively playing...

    I hope so as well, like I say Alganon is actually a better game then, say, LotR imo. It deserves a chance.

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,803

    Originally posted by rhinok


    I'm pretty impressed with how things seem to be shaping up:

    • The team is cranking out patches and adding new PvP content

    • QO is removing chat restrictions for free players - critical, IMO.  That negates one of my concerns with the revenue model and is, frankly, the one that's most obvious so new players.

    • Derek's starting to market the game through interviews and advertising

    • The community, albeit small is nice and seems dedicated

    While I'm critical of Alganon (I believe constructively), it should be obvious from my posts that I like the game.  I just think it needs work and I have some issues with the revenue model.  That being said, I've never thought it wasn't being worked on.  It's obvious the team is dedicated and passionate about what they do.  That's a great thing.


     


    I really do hope Quest Online and the game succeed!


     


    -Ripper

     

    Wonderful to hear. I hope things work out for them.  They have made some major mis steps, but if they can recover from them, and find their niche, everyone involved wins.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Member UncommonPosts: 2,662

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by Ramonski7


    Originally posted by vesavius


    Originally posted by dsmart



    I don't particularly care what anyone else thinks or believes.


    I actually hate the way this game is attacked just for being a traditonal MMO with some nice touches by the idiot masses, I think these days its a solid title that should in a fair world do well. I actually prefer it to LotR in a lot of ways. My only issue with it really is that it's a F2P cash shop game, which I hate, but thats MY issue, not the games. I won't hate it for being what it is, just because it dosent meet my needs.

    I also hate the fact that so many come just to argue with Derek, no matter what he says, which has become a game in itself apparently over the years. To me it just seems pedantic and stupid, and it honestly scares me a little the way people maintain these vendettas on the internet for so long. 

    Saying that though, Derek, don't say stuff like this when you are the representative of your game and your company... It's just really counter productiive to your cause and serves only to alienate potentiol customers. I have no issue with you, and actually loathe hate campaigns like the one I have seen waged against you on a personal level, but when I read this I think... well, f**k you too. The game in itself, for it's target audience, is too good to be killed off by these ongoing forum battles. Think about that, because thats whats happening ... Alganon is definitly only being hurt in the crossfire this time. :/

    I'm gonna have to side with Mr. Smart on this one and this is why:

     

    Imagine you owned a bar and you put a vocal, no nonsense bar manager in charge. Now for you as the owner the bottom line is paying customers and staying in the black. Your manager's job is to serve those customers, make the tough descisions and if need be, refuse to serve belligerent, ill-mannered customers no matter if they are paying or not. It's because you're running a business not a school. The manager has the right to refuse anyone service that he doesn't not particularly care for, especially if they only snack on peanuts, not ordering any drinks and constantly demand the owners to fire the manager. But the customers that do pay are fine with the atmosphere that the manager is providing, they really don't care how many people frequent the bar, nor do they care for freeloaders who bad mouth the manager whenever he voices postitive feedback about the owners, bar and paying customers he IS working for. Makes sense to you? It doesn't matter if you like the manager, bouncer, security or police officer. They are there to provide a peaceful environment for paying/civil patrons they are not there to provide you with customer service, they hire people for that.

    Thats a really long example that basically says 'it's ok to be a pr*ck to your customer base and not to care what they think about it'.

    I actually am actually a pub manager in RL and I recognise the fact that, in the end, the customers are my boss. Without them my business is nothing. I would never stand in my paying customers faces and say what Derek says here... I might think it, but I would never say it.

    If someone is being an ass, then address that person on a personal basis if you need to (though there are more dignified ways of handling the situation tbh), but to make blanket statements like in my original quote here? That is counterproductive and alienating to a far wider public.

    But back on topic, I'm glad Alganon is making a turn for the better. I had my eye on this game since beta and was hoping to give it a spin but was disappointed by the level of familarity it had with WoW. And that turned me off to it. I'm glad to see that steps have been taken to change this issue. Maybe soon in the future I will come back. No matter how many players are actively playing...

    I hope so as well, like I say Alganon is actually a better game then, say, LotR imo. It deserves a chance.

    That's the thing a lot of customers fail to understand:

    Your money only gives you the right to take you business else where.

    If you come into a establishment with a grudge on your shoulder against the person in charge and the owners haven't fired him yet, you have to realize sooner or later that you are the one with the problem...

    But so what if Alganon has 2 players on at the same time or 200. They ones that are enjoying the game enjoy it for the what it's worth to them, not because of who or how many are playing. So if you're playing a mmo based on that merit, you're playing for a really strange reason.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905

    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by dsmart

    I don't particularly care what anyone else thinks or believes.

    That's the thing a lot of customers fail to understand: Your money only gives you the right to take you business else where. If you come into a establishment with a grudge on your shoulder against the person in charge and the owners haven't fired him yet, you have to realize sooner or later that you are the one with the problem...

    You see, thats my point... I obviously, from what I have written very clearly, havent got a grudge or a chip on my shoulder about the game or Derek. You seem to not be understanding where I am coming from here.

    My simple point was that talking this way in front of potentiol customers will alienate them and in the end hurt the game.

    I have no idea why you would defend being rude to your wider customer base tbh :/

    As a pub manager I have been taught techniques in how to defuse difficult situations and handle them politley, peacefully, but firmly, rather the inflame them into running battles, and any good manager should have that same skillset.

    But so what if Alganon has 2 players on at the same time or 200. They ones that are enjoying the game enjoy it for the what it's worth to them, not because of who or how many are playing. So if you're playing a mmo based on that merit, you're playing for a really strange reason.

    I have never mentioned alganon's active player numbers... are we having the same conversation here? ;)

    You seem to think that i am looking for a fight or criticising the game in itself, when it's plain from what I written I am doing neither.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,648

    Originally posted by rhinok


    I'm pretty impressed with how things seem to be shaping up:

    • The team is cranking out patches and adding new PvP content

    • QO is removing chat restrictions for free players - critical, IMO.  That negates one of my concerns with the revenue model and is, frankly, the one that's most obvious so new players.

    • Derek's starting to market the game through interviews and advertising

    • The community, albeit small is nice and seems dedicated

    While I'm critical of Alganon (I believe constructively), it should be obvious from my posts that I like the game.  I just think it needs work and I have some issues with the revenue model.  That being said, I've never thought it wasn't being worked on.  It's obvious the team is dedicated and passionate about what they do.  That's a great thing.


     


    I really do hope Quest Online and the game succeed!


     


    -Ripper

    This is definitely not enough to attract anyone,so if this is all tha tmoves it in the right direction,it is doing very little.

    First of all ,i can tell you i spend a lot of money on gaming,so i AM one of those always looking to support a game.

    Marketing unless a game offers tons of huge changes,is something that needs to be done pre release,not after.

    I do not agree on lifting chat restrictions,i have seen this in evey game and free to play,brings out the most retarded nonsense in chat.It gets sooo bad it often makes me quit instantly,i ONLY want to see chat from those that are truly in the game to play it ,not ambush it to tell others it is crap or how great Wow is.

    Yes the size of the community is an important issue,but you need to get the community at least looking at something that will attract them.

    Rift did it with Rift's/Aion did it with flying,Wow does it with mounts and pets,you need something other than what the OP posted here.

    First of all to move in the right direction,you NEED to get away from copying the two biggest questing treadmills Wow and Eq2,you are not going to steal players from those games.So it leaves the obvious choice which is to take some great ideas from other games that offer soemthing DIFFERENT thanWow or EQ2.

    Dynamic events/cards be it mini game or whatever..examples Wiz 101/VG diplomacy/MTGO.class structure like FFXI,meaning sub class and able to play ALL class on the same player,no need to remake several players.

    How about character/player building,examples skills for each weapons,AA trees,Rank/Fame as in FFXi,ROM gear imbuing,chest drops from mobs that can be manipulated throguh cash shop ,again look at ROM for the ideas to see how it works.

    This is the kind of stuff that NEEDS to be marketed/posted to attract people to at least give the game a look.Telling me someone is marketing it,or making patches or removing chat restrictions is not going to make me try the game at all,not even a 1% chance at making me look twice.I think i am like MOST people,we need to see CONCRETE things that will entice us to play the game.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Member UncommonPosts: 2,662

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by Ramonski7


    Originally posted by vesavius


    Originally posted by Ramonski7


    Originally posted by vesavius


    Originally posted by dsmart



    I don't particularly care what anyone else thinks or believes.

    That's the thing a lot of customers fail to understand: Your money only gives you the right to take you business else where. If you come into a establishment with a grudge on your shoulder against the person in charge and the owners haven't fired him yet, you have to realize sooner or later that you are the one with the problem...

    You see, thats my point... I obviously, from what I have written very clearly, havent got a grudge or a chip on my shoulder about the game or Derek. You seem to not be understanding where I am coming from here.

    My simple point was that talking this way in front of potentiol customers will alienate them and in the end hurt the game.

    I have no idea why you would defend being rude to your wider customer base tbh :/

    As a pub manager I have been taught techniques in how to defuse difficult situations and handle them politley, peacefully, but firmly, rather the inflame them into running battles, and any good manager should have that same skillset.

    But so what if Alganon has 2 players on at the same time or 200. They ones that are enjoying the game enjoy it for the what it's worth to them, not because of who or how many are playing. So if you're playing a mmo based on that merit, you're playing for a really strange reason.

    I have never mentioned alganon's active player numbers... are we having the same conversation here? ;)

    You seem to think that i am looking for a fight or criticising the game in itself, when it's plain from what I written I am doing neither.

    Oh no, no, no don't get me wrong. It is not you with whom I'm referring to, it's the posters/customers who come in looking for a conflict. Being a pub manager I'm quite sure you can spot them a mile away. No, you strike me more as a regular who may voice concern to the pub manager in a 1/2 jokingly, 1/2 serious tone that the reason this place doesn't get more business is because he comes off as a bear to anyone who doesn't know him and tells him to lighten up.

     

    But I too have been in the business of providing customer service (retail 5+ years) and a service (department of corrections 7 years/military police 8 years). But for me Mr. Smart seems to be in a behind-the-scenes position in conflict with a "in-your-face" personality. And cannot help but "express" his opinion about the thing he's managing. Kinda like a cook who ALWAYS coming out of the kitchen when a customer makes a complaint about the food, when he should leave the PR job to more qualified individuals...

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905

    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by dsmart

    I don't particularly care what anyone else thinks or believes.

    That's the thing a lot of customers fail to understand: Your money only gives you the right to take you business else where. If you come into a establishment with a grudge on your shoulder against the person in charge and the owners haven't fired him yet, you have to realize sooner or later that you are the one with the problem...

    You see, thats my point... I obviously, from what I have written very clearly, havent got a grudge or a chip on my shoulder about the game or Derek. You seem to not be understanding where I am coming from here.

    My simple point was that talking this way in front of potentiol customers will alienate them and in the end hurt the game.

    I have no idea why you would defend being rude to your wider customer base tbh :/

    As a pub manager I have been taught techniques in how to defuse difficult situations and handle them politley, peacefully, but firmly, rather the inflame them into running battles, and any good manager should have that same skillset.

    But so what if Alganon has 2 players on at the same time or 200. They ones that are enjoying the game enjoy it for the what it's worth to them, not because of who or how many are playing. So if you're playing a mmo based on that merit, you're playing for a really strange reason.

    I have never mentioned alganon's active player numbers... are we having the same conversation here? ;)

    You seem to think that i am looking for a fight or criticising the game in itself, when it's plain from what I written I am doing neither.

    Oh no, no, no don't get me wrong. It is not you with whom I'm referring to, it's the posters/customers who come in looking for a conflict. Being a pub manager I'm quite sure you can spot them a mile away. No, you strike me more as a regular who may voice concern to the pub manager in a 1/2 jokingly, 1/2 serious tone that the reason this place doesn't get more business is because he comes off as a bear to anyone who doesn't know him and tells him to lighten up.

     

    But I too have been in the business of providing customer service (retail 5+ years) and a service (department of corrections 7 years/military police 8 years). But for me Mr. Smart seems to be in a behind-the-scenes position in conflict with a "in-your-face" personality. And cannot help but "express" his opinion about the thing he's managing. Kinda like a cook who ALWAYS coming out of the kitchen when a customer makes a complaint about the food, when he should leave the PR job to more qualified individuals...

     

    lol yes :)

    He really just needs to show some self awareness and hire a mouthpiece to filter his views through, because the views themselves arnt necessarily wrong. it's just that, as you obviously know, how we say things is easily as important as what we say.

  • mad-hattermad-hatter Member UncommonPosts: 241

    Right direction or not, I tried this game a few months ago and there was literally 6 players online.  I was actually surprised by this, as it is F2P, and that at least usually brings the people who can't afford subs either way.  The game didn't seem half bad.  Sorry but can't see myself playing this one without a huge population increase.

  • japojapo Member Posts: 306

    Well....I played in beta and played for about 3 months after release. 

    I'll never play it again and I must admit...I read all of the forums about this game simply so I can see DM be a dick to people while showing everyone his lack of people skills and communication skills.

    He'll never change and it's cheap entertainment.  He falls for the troll bait every time.

  • erickdeforeserickdefores Member Posts: 161

    Originally posted by TribeofOne

    Originally posted by parrotpholk

    Originally posted by preston326

    [object Window]

     


    I have nothing against you nor am I trying to flame you. As the matter of fact I was about to try your game despite all the negative reviews and then I came to mmorpg.com forums and to my surprise I stumbled across your posts. Man, I was appalled by your arrogance. Your posts in most cases are very rude and you are a representative of your game! Let[object Window]s be honest your game doesn[object Window]t have much to offer the only thing that makes small games cool is the community. And that[object Window]s how you represent your game and thus the community? You should really proof read your posts and restrain from posting your opinion.


    P.S. Sorry for OT

    He will not care nor understand.  Look up his history and you will see what kind of man he is.  He thinks he is the end all be all but most cannot name 1 game he is known for.  You are correct though.

    he made --


    Battlecruiser 3000AD !!!

    bow down fool!

     Yah right !  He did make BATTLECRUISER 3000AD....  A game that didnt work  AT ALL when it was put on the market..  He then put out a patch that at least made it start up but was so buggy it was barely useable.  THEN HE TRIED TO SELL US A PATCH that would fixx all the buggs..  

    BOW DOWN FOOL!!!!

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Oh no, no, no don't get me wrong. It is not you with whom I'm referring to, it's the posters/customers who come in looking for a conflict. Being a pub manager I'm quite sure you can spot them a mile away. No, you strike me more as a regular who may voice concern to the pub manager in a 1/2 jokingly, 1/2 serious tone that the reason this place doesn't get more business is because he comes off as a bear to anyone who doesn't know him and tells him to lighten up.

     

    But I too have been in the business of providing customer service (retail 5+ years) and a service (department of corrections 7 years/military police 8 years). But for me Mr. Smart seems to be in a behind-the-scenes position in conflict with a "in-your-face" personality. And cannot help but "express" his opinion about the thing he's managing. Kinda like a cook who ALWAYS coming out of the kitchen when a customer makes a complaint about the food, when he should leave the PR job to more qualified individuals...

     

    lol yes :)

    He really just needs to show some self awareness and hire a mouthpiece to filter his views through, because the views themselves arnt necessarily wrong. it's just that, as you obviously know, how we say things is easily as important as what we say.

     

    I personally have no problem with Derek's "in your face", no-sugar-coating approach. I actually appreciate that. Tell it like it is instead of hiding behind a bunch of toned-down, rosey smelling PR BS.

    I also find it rather disingenuous when some people (not necessarily anyone here in particular - unless they happen to fit this description) will throw out their worst, most insulting and damning rhetoric at a developer, game, individual or what-have-you... and call out the said developer/individual for not "defending their case" to their players/followers. But then, those same poeple immediately run behind the curtain of "Politically Correct Professionalism" when someone, such as Derek Smart, does just that and they don't like what he has to say. It's like a kid bullying and name-calling someone else  on the school playground, then immediately running and hiding behind a teacher the moment the bullied kid fires back.

    In other words: Some folks can dish it out... and you know the rest of the saying.

    I mean... yes... the guy does go a bit overboard in his replies at times, but hey... I also consider his signature to be both a disclaimer and a warning... "what you see is what you get".

    My issue with Derek Smart's approach is that there's too much "me" in his responses, and not enough "we". You'd think sometimes that he's done everything entirely himself (programming, graphics, design, etc) the way he gives himself credit. Would be nice to see him give props a bit more often to the people doing the work too... the designers, artists, writers, programmers, etc..

    Otherwise... screw it. Let the man speak his mind. There are people he has to answer to for his "public behavior". It's the people signing his paycheck. They're the ones to "rein him in" if anyone's going to do it. It's kinda refreshing to see someone come into the trenches, take the hits and fire a few back himself.

    My 2 cents.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Oh no, no, no don't get me wrong. It is not you with whom I'm referring to, it's the posters/customers who come in looking for a conflict. Being a pub manager I'm quite sure you can spot them a mile away. No, you strike me more as a regular who may voice concern to the pub manager in a 1/2 jokingly, 1/2 serious tone that the reason this place doesn't get more business is because he comes off as a bear to anyone who doesn't know him and tells him to lighten up.

     

    But I too have been in the business of providing customer service (retail 5+ years) and a service (department of corrections 7 years/military police 8 years). But for me Mr. Smart seems to be in a behind-the-scenes position in conflict with a "in-your-face" personality. And cannot help but "express" his opinion about the thing he's managing. Kinda like a cook who ALWAYS coming out of the kitchen when a customer makes a complaint about the food, when he should leave the PR job to more qualified individuals...

     

    lol yes :)

    He really just needs to show some self awareness and hire a mouthpiece to filter his views through, because the views themselves arnt necessarily wrong. it's just that, as you obviously know, how we say things is easily as important as what we say.

     

    I personally have no problem with Derek's "in your face", no-sugar-coating approach.

    Nor do I, on a personal level, but I am aware enough to see that him doing so in the way he does is harming his otherwise valid game. For every guy like you, there are a heap of others that just see bickering and bitching and think 'screw that'. It is costing his company business.

    There may be others in charge of him and pay him, but this is a public forum and all i have done is offer my opinion based on observation of the image he is creating for his company and product.

    Otherwise... screw it. Let the man speak his mind.

    I have no power or right, or even desire (my paychack dosent rely on him in any way and I dont play his game), to stop him, but we are all allowed to give our own views on his approach.

    Alganon is a decent little game and can be grown, but these forum battles are NOT the way forward.

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    My issue with Derek Smart's approach is that there's too much "me" in his responses, and not enough "we". You'd think sometimes that he's done everything entirely himself (programming, graphics, design, etc) the way he gives himself credit. Would be nice to see him give props a bit more often to the people doing the work too... the designers, artists, writers, programmers, etc..

    You're very wrong there. Which clearly means that you either haven't read any of my interviews, blogs (as recently as this extensive one) or posts. If you had, you'd immediately see just how wrong you are.

    I have no need to take credit for stuff that has nothing to do with me. Nevertheless, I am no different than any corporate head who speaks to their leadership and with no reason to drum up the obvious. When was the last time you saw a studio or publisher lead go on and on about their team, people etc?

    When leaders speak, they speak from that position and it has absolutely nothing to do with it being "me" or "we" disposition. A lot of us actually went to seminars for stuff like that.

    The last time I checked (and I just did again), I haven't done a single interview or written a single thing [about Alganon] where I didn't point out the obvious. So there is no need to make claims that are patently false and which have absolutely no merit whatsoever. Whether you have a problem with me or not is largely irrelevant and has nothing to do with that.  It has to do with saying things that are just not true at all and thats the sort of thing that, unchallenged, tends to just end up being propagated as fact when it clearly isn't.

    As to the rest of unfounded and derogatory stuff that is written in this thread, I'm just going to ignore them and let the posts speak for themselves because nothing that I say will better articulate the ludicrousness of it all. I'm not in a battle with anyone. If someone posts something that is incorrect or which stirs my interest, I will respond -  regardless of whether or not some like my response or not. I'm not some faceless corporate shill or clown; I'm an industry vet - a game developer first and foremost - with over twenty years experience and many games under my belt. I need not defend myself because my track record speaks for itself - loudly.

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • MugHugMugHug Member Posts: 47



     I need not defend myself because my track record speaks for itself - loudly.


    Sorry Derek, but it is more of a case that you blow your own trumpet so LOUD, you do not have time or the will to listen to anyone else it seems.


    Being the so-called industry professional, I am surprised that you come across no better than a certain type of person that seems to only have the ability to communicate in a hostile, biased manner whilst directly trying to avoid answering any hard question posed to you, with whitewash or the same old answers.  Basically the worse kind you can find in a forum and clearly a kind that does not add to the community.


    Based on the majority of posts here, it does not impress people. As you have made clear, I imagine you do not actually give a damn what people think. Good first rule for a business man.


    If you also believe that your antics will not affect a current or potential customer[object Window]s view about committing time and money to Alganon, then you clearly know something that the rest of the business world does not.


    Seems like a big risk to take and it will be interesting to see what the future holds for Alganon with you at the reins.


    I have been with Alganon off and on since beta and having paid hard money in your shop whilst I wait patiently for Alganon to really take off.....


    ......I actually had hope that you might have been a good thing for Alganon, trying to believe that your arrogant attitude was acceptable if it helped Alganon.


    Now, I am honestly having doubts as to the future of Alganon and I suspect a lot of that has to do with your attitude to others in public. To think that your behavior cannot have an effect on Alganon, is in its self arrogant and short sighted.


    Well, it is time for me to leave Alganon and move on. I wish you the best and will be interested to see how you do.

    My parting thoughts to you...


    History has taught all of us (if we are bothered to listen) that even the greatest human beings fall from grace because of arrogance and I imagine you are no better protected than anyone else. Be careful.

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Originally posted by MugHug



    Now, I am honestly having doubts as to the future of Alganon and I suspect a lot of that has to do with your attitude to others in public. To think that your behavior cannot have an effect on Alganon, is in its self arrogant and short sighted.

    Well that's just nonsense isn't it? Anyone who followed Alganon knows what state it was in, the state it was released in etc before I even got involved. Then you look at where it is today. None of that has anything to do with longevity, my attitude or anything of the sort - but rather everything to do with the game and the install base. History has shown that you can throw millions and the best talent at a game - and company - and still fail. So I fail to see your point. I am doing my best and will continue to do so because that's what I do. At the end of the day, it is up to the people who own the company to determine what happens to it - and Alganon - in the long run. That has nothng to do with me since it is not my call. I own my own company as I have done for more than twenty years and through the debacle of my first game (Battlecruiser 3000AD) and amidst the same crap that you and your ilk are currently posting about QOL and Alganon. I'm still here doing exactly what I want, how I want etc. Nothing you say about me changes a thing because reality is far more plausible than  fiction, conjecture and the general nonsense that forum denizens tend to engage in.

    Call me arrogant all you want, I don't care. Name calling and personal attacks are always the sign of weakness; especially when someone doesn't have anything tangible to say about a topic.  It is always easy to perch on a wall and throw stones. But when the target chunks a boulder, it's time to cry foul.

    People like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about - but taking jabs at others is just par for the course even though it is inconsequental at best. So, if it makes you feel like a big man, have at it. Just remember the forum rules, post about the game and such and not about me or another person.

    A long time ago I learned that responding to crap like this is just a waste of my time, effort and energy - and is exactly the reason why devs don't even bother communicating with gamers anymore. Oh well, I'm not perfect.

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • Sogi-YaSogi-Ya Member Posts: 53

    I like you Derek, your cool.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905

    Originally posted by dsmart

    Originally posted by MugHug



    Now, I am honestly having doubts as to the future of Alganon and I suspect a lot of that has to do with your attitude to others in public. To think that your behavior cannot have an effect on Alganon, is in its self arrogant and short sighted.

    Well that's just nonsense isn't it?

     

    Well, no Derek, it isnt.

    Stop dismissing and start listening.

    Work for your game and not against it.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905

    Originally posted by dsmart

    A long time ago I learned that responding to crap like this is just a waste of my time, effort and energy - and is exactly the reason why devs don't even bother communicating with gamers anymore. Oh well, I'm not perfect.

     

     

    Well, thats weird, because when Scot Hartsman communicates with forums he gets none of this running aggro. In fact, people acually tend to listen to and like the guy on he whole.

  • AcidonAcidon Member UncommonPosts: 795

    I enjoy Alganon.  I don't play that often.  Sometimes I only log in to make sure my 2 chars are still training.  I have an insane amount of training done on 2 chars.  It's pretty fun actually.  I usually play for a little while, advance a little, maybe explore a bit, and log off. 

    I'm one of those people that don't care at whether there are other people around.  I do my own little thing and have a blast.  The client is incredibly stable now and I have had no issues at all lately.  There's a small latency issue now and then (pretty rare anymore) but that can happen anywhere.

    Derek Smart and the way he presents himself has nothing to do with my game experience.  I really don't care either way to be honest.

    If Alganon takes off at some point, which I hope it does, I will have 2 trained up chars (all free, mind you) that will be ready to conquer the world as I level.  It's a great world, and yes it IS unique. 

    I don't care for the new UI myself, the bars are too skinny for my liking.  if I could make the health and mana bars taller it would be much better for me personally.  I have a large monitor but i still have some eyesight issues.  For all I know this has been addressed in the last couple of weeks. I'm currently getting my client current again and logging in for a bit to do my little thing.

    I don't understand the hate.  Why hate on a game you are not playing and are not interested in?  What is the point, children?  Just go talk about the games you DO want to play.  I understand this is just the way of the internet these days, especially with more (new) generations involved, but I don't have to like it.

    Anyway, enough rambling.  Carry on.

     

    EDIT:  I wanted to add that I only have $20 invested in this game from buying the client when it was still sold and was half-off.  I don't regret it one bit and was compensated with store points for the investment.  Fun, whenever I feel like it, for free.  What's there to complain about?  /shrug

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905

     

    Originally posted by Acidon

    What is the point, children?  

    The point is for most people is to just incite a fight, put others down, and get their kicks from forum PvP. Exactly the same reason you added the 'children' here in fact.

    You arnt any different.

    except, if you look back, you will see how that isnt how I have posted at all. have fun.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by dsmart

    Originally posted by WSIMike



    My issue with Derek Smart's approach is that there's too much "me" in his responses, and not enough "we". You'd think sometimes that he's done everything entirely himself (programming, graphics, design, etc) the way he gives himself credit. Would be nice to see him give props a bit more often to the people doing the work too... the designers, artists, writers, programmers, etc..

    You're very wrong there. Which clearly means that you either haven't read any of my interviews, blogs (as recently as this extensive one) or posts. If you had, you'd immediately see just how wrong you are.

    I have read your interviews and your posts, Derek. And I stand by my statement.

    I didn't say you never give due credit to others. You do, however, routinely put more emphasis on the "Me" than you do on the "We". Maybe that's not how you intend for it to come across... but, to me, it's how you come across :).

    Nothing personal, I don't know what's going on inside your brain or how you really think.. I'm just making an observation based on what you actually say.

    I have no need to take credit for stuff that has nothing to do with me. Nevertheless, I am no different than any corporate head who speaks to their leadership and with no reason to drum up the obvious. When was the last time you saw a studio or publisher lead go on and on about their team, people etc?

    As it's not something that comes up often in interviews and such in general, not very.

    However, I have seen rather consistently over the years where the head spokes people and/or developers use "we" consistently and regularly refer to their team as the default. Mark Rein from Epic. John Carmack from Id. And so forth... The only time they use "me" or "I" is when they're presenting their own anecdote or personal opinion on something, or when the topic is specifically about them. Otherwise, it's all about what the team has done, and they include themselves as part of the team.

    I had the opportunity to meet Tom Hall at E3 back in 99 or 2000 (forget which time it was) when he was with Ion Storm and they were promoting Anachronox. I was quite excited about the game and got to talk to him. When I said to him "You're doing awesome work on this" - though I meant "you" collectivel as "him and his team" - he immediatly said, to paraphrase, "Well, i'm just one person. There are a lot of talented people working hard and contributing to this game". He could have said anything in response to that, including a simple "Thank you". It was important to him  to make it clear that it wasn't him, even though the game was very much his "personal" baby. It was an entire team making Anachronox happen.

    Where you use "me" or "I", others use "we", "us" and even "they". With others, it's always about "the team". With you, it more often seems to be about you. What you've done for the team. What you've done in your career. How you have turned the game around. How you...   What you... and so on.  It can tend to ring a bit like self-promotion to my eyes.

    But again... that's just my opinion on it. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I'll let others judge that for themselves.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

    Originally posted by dsmart

    You're very wrong there. Which clearly means that you either haven't read any of my interviews, blogs (as recently as this extensive one) or posts. If you had, you'd immediately see just how wrong you are.

    You know Derek, it is this attitude that makes not a whole lot of people trust you.  From what I have seen, people's opinions of Alganon are one part state of the game, two parts the fact that you arer in charge.  I would even go as far to say that several people, possibly including myself, consider you the Uwe Boll of video games (pardon any possible flaming).

     


    Originally posted by dsmart

    Call me arrogant all you want, I don't care. Name calling and personal attacks are always the sign of weakness; especially when someone doesn't have anything tangible to say about a topic.  It is always easy to perch on a wall and throw stones. But when the target chunks a boulder, it's time to cry foul.

    Ironic, given that a good portion of many of your responses are devoted to denouncing naysayers and people who disagree with you.  (again, pardon any possible flaming)

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    The comments regarding ARPPU seem perfectly reasonable to me. After all, people that are willing to spend money on the game will probably spend a decent amount.  I, too, did a double-take on the 100k numbers.  It's so contradictory  to what I've experienced in game (I last played in October), that it seems unbelievable.  I'm really curious as to what specific metrics define an active player for the sake of calculating ARPU.  Is it simply that a character on an account has been played at some point during the month?  Is there a time limit on how much time must have been played for a player account to be considered active?  Is my account, unplayed since October, considered "active"., etc...

    Regardless, none of it really matters as long as those who pay the bills are satisfied with the state of the game and it's direction as it relates to return of their initial investment and hopefully future profitability. 

    As I said in my initial post, regardless of what I or others think about "Derek Smart", the "game" is generally moving in a positive direction.  The team is fixing bugs, adding content, advertising the game, etc... That's all good.

    ~Ripper

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,418

    Originally posted by rhinok

     I, too, did a double-take on the 100k numbers.  It's so contradictory  to what I've experienced in game (I last played in October), that it seems unbelievable.  I'm really curious as to what specific metrics define an active player for the sake of calculating ARPU.  Is it simply that a character on an account has been played at some point during the month?  Is there a time limit on how much time must have been played for a player account to be considered active?  Is my account, unplayed since October, considered "active"., etc...

     

    The 100k number just doesn't make sense in relation to "active".  It's impossible for the game to have 100k members that have logged in in the past 6 months let alone the past month.  This is based on the population numbers regularly posted here.

     

    The number itself is fairly meaningless at this point, as all that matters is how many people are available to group with when you are online.  You can't bring in new customers if the old ones aren't even playing.

     

    The day Derek Smart steps down or is removed is the day I give Alganon a second chance.  I simply have no faith in anything he says or does. 

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Originally posted by rhinok

    The comments regarding ARPPU seem perfectly reasonable to me. After all, people that are willing to spend money on the game will probably spend a decent amount.  I, too, did a double-take on the 100k numbers.  It's so contradictory  to what I've experienced in game (I last played in October), that it seems unbelievable.  I'm really curious as to what specific metrics define an active player for the sake of calculating ARPU.  Is it simply that a character on an account has been played at some point during the month?  Is there a time limit on how much time must have been played for a player account to be considered active?  Is my account, unplayed since October, considered "active"., etc...

    Regardless, none of it really matters as long as those who pay the bills are satisfied with the state of the game and it's direction as it relates to return of their initial investment and hopefully future profitability. 

    As I said in my initial post, regardless of what I or others think about "Derek Smart", the "game" is generally moving in a positive direction.  The team is fixing bugs, adding content, advertising the game, etc... That's all good.

    ~Ripper

    One thing to remember is that back in Oct 2009, the game was a subscription game, a buggy mess of a game and with a $40 barrier of entry to boot. Now it is a very good game, improved beyond recognition, is F2P - and now has a marketing campaign behind it.

    As you know, my first order of business was to refund everyone their subscription and such. Of course giving away money is not something that investors want to hear, but I felt strongly enough about it to push  it through and make it happen.

    Plus, no matter how you look at it, when people look at the people running a game, there is some sense of trust there. I don't believe that anyone buys Activisions games because of Bobby Kotick. Yet, they make billions. Even the fools who proclaim their disdain, create fake boycotts, while buying and playing the games etc are all part of the gag. It is easy to say in public "Oh, I'm not playing or buying that game because of so and so". They are just words and usually flat out lies. At the end of the day, anyone can say anything while doing something completely different. That's the internet. WIth so many boycotts of Activision and EA games, you'd think that they would be out of business by now. Go figure. So that crap doesn't even register on my radar because if some angry internet person thinks that I go through my day worrying about whether or not he is playing my game, then he clearly has issues that are beyond comprehension.

    I don't believe that people buy and play Alganon because of me. But all things considered when you look at the track record of the person who is supposed to be leading the effort to finish and fix the game, it is hard to discount said record. After all, I have been here before in my own career and with a game that had a less than stellar release. So where we are today at QOL is only surprising to people who have no clue who I am, what I've done etc.

    I think I can answer some of your questions without breaching the NDA in my contract by revealing company info.

    First, Raph has an excellent example of what ARPU and ARPPU are, how they are calculated etc. Start there.

    We have very detailed metrics which can be as complex as we want them to be. Though they can be run at any time, each week we (incl. the investors who own the company) get three reports directly from the database. Each report is targeted at specific types of metrics as follows:

    1) Alganon accounts: created and activated per week, month, totals etc. So e.g. if 1000 people created accounts, but only 800 activated (via the email you are sent) them, then we know that something (missed email, tech glitch etc) happened to 200 accounts. We can track an account from creation, to activation to login, character creation and beyond.

    2) Gameplay stats: very detailed, but the key metrics in this report are account logins (per day, week etc), how many players entered the world etc

    3) Tribute (game currency) purchases: another detailed one which tells us who spent what, the total spent (day, week, month etc), how much revenue the game made per day, week, month etc

    All the above go beyond just normal ARPU and ARPPU calculations but all in all they give us a very detailed and accurate picture of how many people are playing (active accounts) our game, what they are spending, how many people are actually spending money etc. All the standard metrics that I'm sure all other MMO games have.

    Simply, I don't care about how much time someone spends playing the game - though we do have access to those metrics since we have access to login times, characters created per a/c etc. So, I don't care if someone plays the game 24/7, for 7 days a week. The only metrics that I care about are how many active accounts we have and how many of those active accounts are spending money.

    So even with 100K active accounts, we can have spikes where a few thousand collectively login and play that month and only some of them actually buy/spend any Tribute. You could also end up with scenarios where 15K people play in a month with spikes from week to week, but you make less money during that month than in a month where only 5K of the big spenders were actually on and thus spend money.

    This is all normal and it is no different from other MMO and social games where you can have millions of active accounts, but only thousands spending money. It is the law of averages and that is how F2P works, thus the ARPU and ARPPU metrics which determine revenue metrics.

    And since we started the marketing campaign in late Nov, our numbers have spiked as expected because, lets face it, it is a pretty good game now. I get emails, PMs and even forum posts by people who left the game while in the Beta or prior to the official April launch of the 2.0 gen when I came onboard and as you indicated, they are pretty surprised at the current results. We've had interested and potential third-party licensees play the game and give it high marks and praise as to where it is now. In fact, we don't even like to talk about the game pre- the April 2.0 launch because that would be like comparing Apples to Oranges just because they happen to live in the same fruit basket.

    We have collectively done an exceptional amount of work on this game in an effort to save it. The investors could simply have shut down the company and taken the loses on their taxes. But they opted not to do that - and simply because they wanted me to give it a shot as a last ditch effort. As I said in my recent dev blog, once the PvP phase is complete and we get localization done (by the end of Q1/11) thus concluding this 2.0 generation's schedule, I then have to sit back and figure out what I want to do with the game going forward.

    None of this means that we're out of the woods because with the millions spent on Alganon before I got to QOL, plus the money already spent, we still have quite a way to go in order to be profitable; but thats the nature of the beast. A lot of startups and even well funded ones, end up operating in the Red for many years, despite having a solid business plan, exceptional talent and a good product. Once you start talking about investments in the millions, unless you're a salesman selling snake oil and lies to investors, there really is no get-rich-quick premise when you're running a business, let alone an MMO.

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

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