Dudes dont mix up things.Vanilla wow was the reason that wow became so succesful.Not wotlk.When Vanilla wow came majority bought it,played it,liked it,the game comunity was build,and kept raising in subs.Now with wotlk u got only ppl canceling their subs and just new age players buying it 10 y old+ (the new generations of players). When BC came most of the players felt it wa bit worst than the vanilla,but arenas was added,and that was a new cool thing to keep them. When Wotlk came ppl majority of ppl have already found their home,after playing 4 years+wow they were too addicted to quit,many of them did,many others stayed.
This is my observation too, the growth appears to be mainly young gamers, many original players (like myself) left the game when it started moving away from the original warcraft plot which had a strong community.
WoW is a good game for new MMO players to try out, it is simple, yet engaging. Many people I notice move back to it for a few months each expansion as if it were a new game, but they usually end up leaving again afterwards, perhaps realising it is not the same as it once was.
I won't disagree that alot of young people play WoW, but I don't think that's all there is, or if that's a sizeable majority. For example, my guild is has about 50-60 regulars and it's an 18+ only guild. Most hardcore raiding guilds are 18+ (check Elitist Jerks). I read somewhere that the avg age of someone who plays WoW is 26. Young, but not a child either.
You are correct. The average age of a WOW player is in the mid-20s. The data is out there and has been linked and discussed before. See here is the argument that doesn't make sense to me:
WOW hater: "WOW is full of kids. WOW is only for casuals."
Think about it....who has the most time to devote to an MMO in today's society? Teenagers/college students/etc.... So if this was the majority of the WOW playerbase, wouldnt the game be more of a timesink like the games on facebook that make you login 20 times a day. This age group has the ability to do that.
But wait, WOW is casual? Why would that be? Maybe because a large portion of WOW players are not younger, they are older. The grew up on MMO's and now find themselves as professionals with jobs, careers and families. These are the former hardcore gamers who played 10 hours a day in EQ who still want to enjoy their MMO's, they just do not have the time. WOW allows them to play, get something accomplished in a small amount of time.
WOW is a casual game because its players do not have time to devote to it like they use too. Therefore, the playerbase is older. I think we did the math and the average age in our guild is like 42 or so (I am 35 and one of the younger ones). However, we do have a 25+ age requirement so it does skew things a lot.
And I can only speak for myself, but I do not know a single WOW player who plays that is under the age of 20. Most of those under that age are more enthused with things like their I-Phone or Facebook. WOW is too slow for them.
100% agree. The game is catered to player that only has 1-2 hours to play a session. This does not target the high school/college kid. In fact, it's probably more younger folks with more free time that give up on WoW because they run out of things to do that quick.
I've heard of co-workers talk about WoW, guys talk about how their girlfriends and wives play. That's the majority of the playerbase imo.
So, after 6 long years, WoW is still the best and most popular MMO out there. Why is that? Why haven't other MMOs been able to capture WoW's polish and fun factor?
Discuss you thoughts on the matter.
I'm not sure you can handle the truth..... but here goes!
WoW's success is due to the fact blizz has forced people to look like clones, everyone looks the same or they look like clown-hobo's!
Blizz has ignored the player base demand for the appearance tab or something similar, and because of this WoW has grown into the monster that it is now.
;O)
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
100% agree. The game is catered to player that only has 1-2 hours to play a session. This does not target the high school/college kid. In fact, it's probably more younger folks with more free time that give up on WoW because they run out of things to do that quick.
I've heard of co-workers talk about WoW, guys talk about how their girlfriends and wives play. That's the majority of the playerbase imo.
Yep, my wife plays and she started right before WOTLK. My best friend plays and his wife is considering it. His brother plays as does his wife and son who is a teenager. Its funny. They all came back the same day after 4.03 dropped. His son has a new character that is level 75. The father has a new charatcer that is like level 13.
Now tell me who will grow bored first and unsub?
Most players play WOW because its fun and they have little time. Its the ones who run out of stuff to do that leave. of course they come to these forums and say WOW is too easy but thats a whole other argument.
After testing Cata All i can say is people will have a very hard time powering through the content lol. Vanilla style difficulty for both 5 man and raids are back. Gonna see a lot of qq over peeps not being able to one shot bosses.
Yep, my wife plays and she started right before WOTLK. My best friend plays and his wife is considering it. His brother plays as does his wife and son who is a teenager. Its funny. They all came back the same day after 4.03 dropped. His son has a new character that is level 75. The father has a new charatcer that is like level 13.
Now tell me who will grow bored first and unsub?
Most players play WOW because its fun and they have little time. Its the ones who run out of stuff to do that leave.
That always ends up being my problem with WoW after a few months. I'm in no rush to get to the end game, but doing things that I enjoy (dungeon grinding) pushes me to the end game fairly quick and then once im there, all there really is left to do is grind the exact same dungeons I've already run over and over on a slightly higher difficulty. They are even doing it with raid content now which seems to be the largest reason many of my friends burn out and leave after a few months.
Yep, my wife plays and she started right before WOTLK. My best friend plays and his wife is considering it. His brother plays as does his wife and son who is a teenager. Its funny. They all came back the same day after 4.03 dropped. His son has a new character that is level 75. The father has a new charatcer that is like level 13.
Now tell me who will grow bored first and unsub?
Most players play WOW because its fun and they have little time. Its the ones who run out of stuff to do that leave.
That always ends up being my problem with WoW after a few months. I'm in no rush to get to the end game, but doing things that I enjoy (dungeon grinding) pushes me to the end game fairly quick and then once im there, all there really is left to do is grind the exact same dungeons I've already run over and over on a slightly higher difficulty. They are even doing it with raid content now which seems to be the largest reason many of my friends burn out and leave after a few months.
I think that's just WoW by design. I don't know anyone who has played WoW for any length of time that hasn't taken breaks (in some cases significant breaks) from time to time. Me personally I prefer it that way, gives me time to play other stuff. I think Blizzard knows this too, which may explain their reason for rolling up content upgrades piecemeal after an expansion has launched.
Who cares if they want to do it with 60 people or not? It has NO effect on you, other then it takes away our BRAGGING rights saying I"m "Kingslayer" and you're not..... Outside of bragging rights and EPEEN, tell me how you are effected that 60 people pugged to kill Arthas? I'm all ears
The content is designed to challenge 10 or 25 players respectively. It is tuned to be difficult at those levels and the rewards are also given out with this in mind.
Seeing 60 other people trivialize the content would not hurt my epeen 1 bit, but it would have an effect on the community and the content. If is became social norm to zerg everything to death it would leave a huge glut of people unrewarded and thus complain that there isn't enough loot.
More people zerging means less people to pug with in appropriate sized groups, which would have a direct affect on me.
Doing content that easy would make the game boring very quickly, regardless of the game. No challenge, no fun. Then people quit. Less people playing, less people to group with, sell to, talk to, etc.
Those are just a few reasons it might cause problems and none of them have anything to do with epeen.
You don't see those posibilities, because you seem incapable of looking beyond yourself and your what would serve you best.
Agree with Daf.
That's like saying "Why don't we throw 10 more guys in the outfield and infield at a baseball game. I mean you're only watching from home, it doesn't effect you, so why do you care?" It's how the game is played, so why do you want to cry "Aww how does it effect you?" ...just deal with it, haha. Or it's like ANY game you've played...why do they cap party sizes in single player RPG's...they ALREADY have an easy mode for you, why do you want to make it easier? Certain things are designed a certain way for a reason, and wanting to break that mold is just YOU trying to have everything you want.
Why don't you go petition to Blizzard to bring back 40-man raids? Oh wait, you don't want 40 man raids, you want to raid 25-mans with 60 people. I think the real question is why would you even want to take on a challenge made specifically for a certain amount of people with more than that amount? All it sounds like to me is raids are too hard for you and you'd rather have an easy time. Raids are designed a certain way so a certain number of people having a certain array of classes and specs can accomplish a goal not many can. How does it effect me, you wonder? Well I'd rather not even answer that, but I can. There's no sense of accomplishment for most people if it's like that. People WANT a challenge, which is why the raids exist and why hardcore players stick around. To take away that challenge would be stupid in every dev's eyes, and most eyes that play or (in my case) don't play but see the reality and fairness factor in it. Maybe they'll make a new server called PvEE (Player versus Easy Environment) where you just do whatever the hell you want with as many people you want...Until then, learn to love a challenge...or...sit around in Orgrimmar or wherever you want drinking beer. Doesn't matter. Enjoy!
I think that's just WoW by design. I don't know anyone who has played WoW for any length of time that hasn't taken breaks (in some cases significant breaks) from time to time. Me personally I prefer it that way, gives me time to play other stuff. I think Blizzard knows this too, which may explain their reason for rolling up content upgrades piecemeal after an expansion has launched.
I agree, but being a guild leader in WoW it is hard to walk away or take extended breaks. I started playing MMOs when EQ launched so I'm used to playing games with enough content to keep most players busy for the majority of the time between expansions. It took Blizzard two years to release a new expansion yet it took me less than 5 months to assemble a guild, level to 80, and clear every WotLK dungeon/encounter and we took our time.
I'm hoping with the new dungeon design that Cata will keep us a bit busier between content patches without having to constantly repeat the normal raid then hardmode raid cycle. I'm glad they offer us hardmodes, but copy and pasting another dungeon then adding a new ability to make them harder is just a boring way of keeping people busy.
Ahh im back from a days worth of Xmas shopping.. and obviously the responses pretty much prove my point.. WoW hasn't turned into a social MMO, but is now a E-sport MMO.. That was pretty much summarized by the freudian slip by one poster giving the example of a baseball team....... YEP, that is a competitive sport.. I'm glad to see you compared WoW to that.. However I look at MMO's as social games like kickball, playing charades, or just having 3 legged sack races.. My entertainment doesn't have hard rules, but I see you're does because you like competition and expect everyone else does too..
BTW to the one poster.. I never ASKED why WoW has an ID system.. I know why.. You obviously read my post wrong or fail to comprehend it.. I said WHY is it "better" then a raid system with NO ID restrictions.. I have still failed to hear a reasonable explanation on this.. So many have still gone off on a tangent like politicians and avoided the question..
The baseball comparison had nothing to do with an e-sport. I could have used any comparison, but i happen to like (and miss) baseball...but...Why can't you speak during charades or why don't you just untie the people in a 3-legged race? If it doesn't take the fun out of it for you than that doesn't make sense because it's how it's meant to be played, and if you DO speak or DO untie your legs, is it really that same game anymore? I don't think so, but that's debatable for someone who wants everything their way...There are ALWAYS rules to ANY game, competitive or not.
The ID restriction adds to the game, not takes away. Because of the restriction, you plan and calculate and devise strategies because you don't want to have to wait to complete the raid. Without an ID system and being locked out, the encounters become less engaging and overall less satisfying as a player...not only that, if you want to think magically for a bit, maybe Arthas saw you come in and...I don't know, blacklisted you for 7 days. I don't understand why anyone would want to take 100 people to ICC and kill Arthas, it destroys the essence of the game. Who cares who it effects...we all play because we like the game, the lore, the world...Honestly, if you don't like the system, there's no reason for you to want to raid or even argue about it at all as it shouldn't appeal to your sense of fun.
it add's to the game? Really? So if you have a guild of 13 for example.. How fun is it tell 3 to stay home, there is no room for them? How fun is it to try and pug 12 other slots and end up not doing anything becuause too many people are already ID'd to other raids..
please explain to me about all that fun..
edit ps.. obviously you never did raids like the ones in EQ1 or other similar games.. tisk tisk.. you don't know what you're missing..
Haha and I'm sure you had no idea there were only 10 and 25 man raids. No one is telling you to have a guild of 13, but you knew there were set limits, and if you didn't, that's just too bad I guess...it allows you to make new friends and strategize. I didn't say it was always going to be fun for everyone, but it ADDS to the game...not your sense of the game. It's like you set yourself up to not have fun. It's still all about playstyles. If you loves EQ1 or whatever MMO and their raid system of zerging or whatever you're talking about, why are you here complaining about WoW when you could be there praising them for it? And out of curiosity, did you ever fight an outdoor raid boss? And ever fight Archimonde? Some raids and dungeons could get harder with the amount of [stupid] people you bring...just asking/saying (PUGS are comprised of at least a few idiots and kiddies).
It's not like they're not trying to help people like you who hate being locked out or can't get 12 pugs. 10 and 25-mans are now going to drop same gear or something...and they're adding more raids with less bosses so it's more to do and less of things you can't do.
it add's to the game? Really? So if you have a guild of 13 for example.. How fun is it tell 3 to stay home, there is no room for them? How fun is it to try and pug 12 other slots and end up not doing anything becuause too many people are already ID'd to other raids..
please explain to me about all that fun..
edit ps.. obviously you never did raids like the ones in EQ1 or other similar games.. tisk tisk.. you don't know what you're missing..
You recruit more to your guild to make two teams. You're only looking at it from your unique situation (having only 13 guild members) instead of looking at it from a game wide perspective. Having an open system would bastardize what already exists in WoW because it WOULD get exploited. Pugs would zerg 25m hardmodes and that is exactly what Blizzard does not want. You are wanting to bring a style of gameplay that existed in EQ1 to a game that was never designed for that mechanic from day one. It's an old archaic way of running raids, there is a reason it's not designed like that today in any game (not just WoW).
Cataclysm does change the way you are ID'd to raids now. It's now on a per boss basis vs the entire instance.
Originally posted by Rydeson it add's to the game? Really? So if you have a guild of 13 for example.. How fun is it tell 3 to stay home, there is no room for them? How fun is it to try and pug 12 other slots and end up not doing anything becuause too many people are already ID'd to other raids.. please explain to me about all that fun.. edit ps.. obviously you never did raids like the ones in EQ1 or other similar games.. tisk tisk.. you don't know what you're missing..
This is probably a shock but Blizzard owns the game. They engineer it as they see fit, to please the highest number of people they can. If you're not pleased with how it works, and it's something they obviously aren't going to change (like Raid lockouts), then they didn't write the game for you and you shouldn't play it.
EQ1 started eleven years ago. Let it go...or go back and play it...see how much fun it is now.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ahh im back from a days worth of Xmas shopping.. and obviously the responses pretty much prove my point.. WoW hasn't turned into a social MMO, but is now a E-sport MMO.. That was pretty much summarized by the freudian slip by one poster giving the example of a baseball team....... YEP, that is a competitive sport.. I'm glad to see you compared WoW to that.. However I look at MMO's as social games like kickball, playing charades, or just having 3 legged sack races.. My entertainment doesn't have hard rules, but I see you're does because you like competition and expect everyone else does too..
BTW to the one poster.. I never ASKED why WoW has an ID system.. I know why.. You obviously read my post wrong or fail to comprehend it.. I said WHY is it "better" then a raid system with NO ID restrictions.. I have still failed to hear a reasonable explanation on this.. So many have still gone off on a tangent like politicians and avoided the question..
Happy Holidays
I love how you (and only you) think everything somehow proves your point in every other post you make. Someone mentions baseball and NOW your point is that wow is an esport? It only took you taking a word out of context and performing internet pyschology of someone you know nothing about to prove your point. Strawman attack. Read it ok?
Your question about the raid id system was answered by a few people, but as normal you chose to ignore anything that exposes the flaws in your statements. The raid id system isn't broken and it works just fine. You are not seeing that it is just different. For your desires the open zerg raid system is better, but for most peoples desires it is not.
Honestly there is a reason most companies got away from the EQ raid mechanic. It breed hatred, but that is a different topic all together.
Maybe you should get some inside knowledge from Blizzard, or use a lil common sense.. The number 1 reason.. I repeat.. The NUMBER 1 reason, why Blizzard has a problem with people guild hopping is because too many players are trying to find guilds that will give them raid time.. THIS is exactly why Blizzard is trying to "sorta" fix their guild hopping problem with their upcomming adjustments wtih guild status.. They know it's broke and know the cause, but I can tell you right now, there is no way on this Earthy they will admit to that problem in fear it will open a pandora's box.. However, you are welcome to keep dreaming of green pastures through rose colored glasses.. This will be interesting to see how this new raid ID works and guild status.. I suspect that it will only make problems worse, but we'll see.. I sure as hell dont' see the problem getting better..
BTW.. when you say "it's not broken", you should think about that before making that statement, as Blizzard is about to FIX the problem.. or attempt to.. You think the changes in classes and guilds in Cataclysm is because they are improving it?.. LOL The is precious.. classes changes were to dumb it down even more IMO, and the guild changes are to address ID system that causes problems amongst guilds..
Maybe you should get some inside knowledge from Blizzard, or use a lil common sense.. The number 1 reason.. I repeat.. The NUMBER 1 reason, why Blizzard has a problem with people guild hopping is because too many players are trying to find guilds that will give them raid time.. THIS is exactly why Blizzard is trying to "sorta" fix their guild hopping problem with their upcomming adjustments wtih guild status.. They know it's broke and know the cause, but I can tell you right now, there is no way on this Earthy they will admit to that problem in fear it will open a pandora's box.. However, you are welcome to keep dreaming of green pastures through rose colored glasses.. This will be interesting to see how this new raid ID works and guild status.. I suspect that it will only make problems worse, but we'll see.. I sure as hell dont' see the problem getting better..
BTW.. when you say "it's not broken", you should think about that before making that statement, as Blizzard is about to FIX the problem.. or attempt to.. You think the changes in classes and guilds in Cataclysm is because they are improving it?.. LOL The is precious.. classes changes were to dumb it down even more IMO, and the guild changes are to address ID system that causes problems amongst guilds..
Have a great Holiday Ho Ho Ho
Why do you bring stuff up when people bring out valid points to debate with you and you just casually ignore them. Numerous posters have explained why the raid ID system is better in WoW but you don't even address them. Do you really think it's 'better' than an end game raid instance is made to be irrelevant because 60 people can just jam in there and zerg the bosses? Outside of instant gratification of everyone killing Arthas, what does Blizzard gain from that other than more people unsubbing because there is no accomplishment in the game anymore? I guarantee you that you would burn out twice as fast as you do now if that was the case. Lets take your hypothetical situation of having only 13 guild members. If this same scenario existed in EQ, what would you have done? You not running raids in EQ with only 13 people. You're joining another guild or getting more people. How is that any different in WoW?
If you really believe in an open system for WoW, I challange you to defend your stance against what I just posted. You probably won't, since that's not as much fun as trolling up every WoW thread.
Maybe you should get some inside knowledge from Blizzard, or use a lil common sense.. The number 1 reason.. I repeat.. The NUMBER 1 reason, why Blizzard has a problem with people guild hopping is because too many players are trying to find guilds that will give them raid time.. THIS is exactly why Blizzard is trying to "sorta" fix their guild hopping problem with their upcomming adjustments wtih guild status.. They know it's broke and know the cause, but I can tell you right now, there is no way on this Earthy they will admit to that problem in fear it will open a pandora's box.. However, you are welcome to keep dreaming of green pastures through rose colored glasses.. This will be interesting to see how this new raid ID works and guild status.. I suspect that it will only make problems worse, but we'll see.. I sure as hell dont' see the problem getting better..
BTW.. when you say "it's not broken", you should think about that before making that statement, as Blizzard is about to FIX the problem.. or attempt to.. You think the changes in classes and guilds in Cataclysm is because they are improving it?.. LOL The is precious.. classes changes were to dumb it down even more IMO, and the guild changes are to address ID system that causes problems amongst guilds..
Have a great Holiday Ho Ho Ho
Oh so now your point is that guild hopping is the real problem? Is this more of your "facts" that "prove" whatever unrealted point you happen to be making? Sorry, but with the extensive knowledge you have displayed about the rest of the game, I am going to have to just take your claims with a heavy dose of salt. I just can't take your claims serious when you say you know the number 1 problem, but blizzard will never admit it, because it will open pandoras box.
If it was such a massive problem as you paint it, people would be quitting or raging all over the place. It would be making headlines all over, but the sound of silence pretty much downs out your cries.
Well I'm sorry if you were always the 11th man left out or you have trouble finding a guild that would let you play with them or whatever your beef may be. You seem to have difficulty telling the difference between something being broken and something not being perfect. The raid id system works, but it could be improved on. I wish you could see the difference in that statement, but for your own reasons you can't.
Originally posted by Daffid011 Originally posted by Rydeson Maybe you should get some inside knowledge from Blizzard, or use a lil common sense.. The number 1 reason.. I repeat.. The NUMBER 1 reason, why Blizzard has a problem with people guild hopping is because too many players are trying to find guilds that will give them raid time.. THIS is exactly why Blizzard is trying to "sorta" fix their guild hopping problem with their upcomming adjustments wtih guild status.. They know it's broke and know the cause, but I can tell you right now, there is no way on this Earthy they will admit to that problem in fear it will open a pandora's box.. However, you are welcome to keep dreaming of green pastures through rose colored glasses.. This will be interesting to see how this new raid ID works and guild status.. I suspect that it will only make problems worse, but we'll see.. I sure as hell dont' see the problem getting better.. BTW.. when you say "it's not broken", you should think about that before making that statement, as Blizzard is about to FIX the problem.. or attempt to.. You think the changes in classes and guilds in Cataclysm is because they are improving it?.. LOL The is precious.. classes changes were to dumb it down even more IMO, and the guild changes are to address ID system that causes problems amongst guilds.. Have a great Holiday Ho Ho Ho
Oh so now your point is that guild hopping is the real problem? Is this more of your "facts" that "prove" whatever unrealted point you happen to be making? Sorry, but with the extensive knowledge you have displayed about the rest of the game, I am going to have to just take your claims with a heavy dose of salt. I just can't take your claims serious when you say you know the number 1 problem, but blizzard will never admit it, because it will open pandoras box. If it was such a massive problem as you paint it, people would be quitting or raging all over the place. It would be making headlines all over, but the sound of silence pretty much downs out your cries. Well I'm sorry if you were always the 11th man left out or you have trouble finding a guild that would let you play with them or whatever your beef may be. You seem to have difficulty telling the difference between something being broken and something not being perfect. The raid id system works, but it could be improved on. I wish you could see the difference in that statement, but for your own reasons you can't.
It is pushing the post count up and keeping this thread alive though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Rydeson Maybe you should get some inside knowledge from Blizzard, or use a lil common sense.. The number 1 reason.. I repeat.. The NUMBER 1 reason, why Blizzard has a problem with people guild hopping is because too many players are trying to find guilds that will give them raid time.. THIS is exactly why Blizzard is trying to "sorta" fix their guild hopping problem with their upcomming adjustments wtih guild status.. They know it's broke and know the cause, but I can tell you right now, there is no way on this Earthy they will admit to that problem in fear it will open a pandora's box.. However, you are welcome to keep dreaming of green pastures through rose colored glasses.. This will be interesting to see how this new raid ID works and guild status.. I suspect that it will only make problems worse, but we'll see.. I sure as hell dont' see the problem getting better.. BTW.. when you say "it's not broken", you should think about that before making that statement, as Blizzard is about to FIX the problem.. or attempt to.. You think the changes in classes and guilds in Cataclysm is because they are improving it?.. LOL The is precious.. classes changes were to dumb it down even more IMO, and the guild changes are to address ID system that causes problems amongst guilds.. Have a great Holiday Ho Ho Ho
This just strikes me as being like the arguments made for aliens building the pyramids and the how aliens obviously aided the Nazis in WWII in building some kind of dimension hopping flying saucer. "No...there's not any real evidence, but the it's the obvious conclusion, don't you see it?"
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
it add's to the game? Really? So if you have a guild of 13 for example.. How fun is it tell 3 to stay home, there is no room for them? How fun is it to try and pug 12 other slots and end up not doing anything becuause too many people are already ID'd to other raids..
please explain to me about all that fun..
edit ps.. obviously you never did raids like the ones in EQ1 or other similar games.. tisk tisk.. you don't know what you're missing..
This is probably a shock but Blizzard owns the game. They engineer it as they see fit, to please the highest number of people they can. If you're not pleased with how it works, and it's something they obviously aren't going to change (like Raid lockouts), then they didn't write the game for you and you shouldn't play it.
EQ1 started eleven years ago. Let it go...or go back and play it...see how much fun it is now.
^ this, look up the definition of the word "guild" Rydeson, actually I'll help you out. Guild - An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards. Yes there will be people that dont get to raid sometimes..OMG no what a tragedy!?! but guess what it happens and if your a part of a raid guild it will happen to you at some point in time.
Of course it sucks to not be able to raid every week but thats why you are a "guild" and you work together as a "guild", for the benefit of the "guild", to achieve mutual goals.
The whole point of a raid lockout system is so that people cant farm a boss 24/7 and get everyone geared up within a few weeks. When in a raid guild you work together to take down a boss as a "guild" if half of your guild is getting saved to other raid IDs outside of the guild I have to ask...why?
I dont see a problem with the raid lockout, WoW uses raid lockouts, while games like EQ use repawn times instead on named mobs so you cant farm them 24/7; same system different ways of going about it.
Maybe you should get some inside knowledge from Blizzard, or use a lil common sense.. The number 1 reason.. I repeat.. The NUMBER 1 reason, why Blizzard has a problem with people guild hopping is because too many players are trying to find guilds that will give them raid time.. THIS is exactly why Blizzard is trying to "sorta" fix their guild hopping problem with their upcomming adjustments wtih guild status.. They know it's broke and know the cause, but I can tell you right now, there is no way on this Earthy they will admit to that problem in fear it will open a pandora's box..
This just strikes me as being like the arguments made for aliens building the pyramids and the how aliens obviously aided the Nazis in WWII in building some kind of dimension hopping flying saucer. "No...there's not any real evidence, but the it's the obvious conclusion, don't you see it?"
LOL that is exactly what I was thinking. Thank you!
it add's to the game? Really? So if you have a guild of 13 for example.. How fun is it tell 3 to stay home, there is no room for them? How fun is it to try and pug 12 other slots and end up not doing anything becuause too many people are already ID'd to other raids..
please explain to me about all that fun..
edit ps.. obviously you never did raids like the ones in EQ1 or other similar games.. tisk tisk.. you don't know what you're missing..
This is probably a shock but Blizzard owns the game. They engineer it as they see fit, to please the highest number of people they can. If you're not pleased with how it works, and it's something they obviously aren't going to change (like Raid lockouts), then they didn't write the game for you and you shouldn't play it.
EQ1 started eleven years ago. Let it go...or go back and play it...see how much fun it is now.
^ this, look up the definition of the word "guild" Rydeson, actually I'll help you out. Guild - An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards. Yes there will be people that dont get to raid sometimes..OMG no what a tragedy!?! but guess what it happens and if your a part of a raid guild it will happen to you at some point in time.
Of course it sucks to not be able to raid every week but thats why you are a "guild" and you work together as a "guild", for the benefit of the "guild", to achieve mutual goals.
The whole point of a raid lockout system is so that people cant farm a boss 24/7 and get everyone geared up within a few weeks. When in a raid guild you work together to take down a boss as a "guild" if half of your guild is getting saved to other raid IDs outside of the guild I have to ask...why?
I dont see a problem with the raid lockout, WoW uses raid lockouts, while games like EQ use repawn times instead on named mobs so you cant farm them 24/7; same system different ways of going about it.
Do you really think blizzard is trying to support guild ?
Honestly if they wanted to support guilds they would have done so already !!
Guildhalls , (instances with portals hurray another method to join guilds and not suddenly leave)
Guilds reward that will be removed once you guild quit , now join a guild get reward and quit .
Cause people rage against that idea , imagine all the hard work you did stripped (lol you mean all the hard you didn´t do )
Sorry guild still has no consequences , people joining you and leaving will be a bigger nightmare now .
Cause your guild might have free mounts or pets . what will happen is that it even more alienate small communities .
And cause them to withdraw into themself , lockout sorry one reason only .
TIME SINK , cause it take longer for guilds to farm epics , no other reason TIMESINK .
That is why they nerfed the ID system even more with 10/25 sharing the same lockout.. It's to keep the guilds from double dipping into the loot & token bin.. Blizzard needs more timesinks and slow down progression.. I'm surprised how many have bought into their bs that they are HELPING the players.. ha ha ha..
The entire ID system is nothing more then an anti-social timesink, but the sheep keep chasing that carrot.. and are thankful for it too.. /e SHOCKED.. It's almost scarey, like cult members defending their prophet..
So, after 6 long years, WoW is still the best and most popular MMO out there. Why is that? Why haven't other MMOs been able to capture WoW's polish and fun factor?
Discuss you thoughts on the matter.
it's pretty simple... they keep people playing and they keep them coming back. how many people have stoped playing for awhile and then came back for whatever reason.
That is why they nerfed the ID system even more with 10/25 sharing the same lockout.. It's to keep the guilds from double dipping into the loot & token bin.. Blizzard needs more timesinks and slow down progression.. I'm surprised how many have bought into their bs that they are HELPING the players.. ha ha ha..
The entire ID system is nothing more then an anti-social timesink, but the sheep keep chasing that carrot.. and are thankful for it too.. /e SHOCKED.. It's almost scarey, like cult members defending their prophet..
Comments
100% agree. The game is catered to player that only has 1-2 hours to play a session. This does not target the high school/college kid. In fact, it's probably more younger folks with more free time that give up on WoW because they run out of things to do that quick.
I've heard of co-workers talk about WoW, guys talk about how their girlfriends and wives play. That's the majority of the playerbase imo.
I'm not sure you can handle the truth..... but here goes!
WoW's success is due to the fact blizz has forced people to look like clones, everyone looks the same or they look like clown-hobo's!
Blizz has ignored the player base demand for the appearance tab or something similar, and because of this WoW has grown into the monster that it is now.
;O)
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
After testing Cata All i can say is people will have a very hard time powering through the content lol. Vanilla style difficulty for both 5 man and raids are back. Gonna see a lot of qq over peeps not being able to one shot bosses.
That always ends up being my problem with WoW after a few months. I'm in no rush to get to the end game, but doing things that I enjoy (dungeon grinding) pushes me to the end game fairly quick and then once im there, all there really is left to do is grind the exact same dungeons I've already run over and over on a slightly higher difficulty. They are even doing it with raid content now which seems to be the largest reason many of my friends burn out and leave after a few months.
I think that's just WoW by design. I don't know anyone who has played WoW for any length of time that hasn't taken breaks (in some cases significant breaks) from time to time. Me personally I prefer it that way, gives me time to play other stuff. I think Blizzard knows this too, which may explain their reason for rolling up content upgrades piecemeal after an expansion has launched.
Agree with Daf.
That's like saying "Why don't we throw 10 more guys in the outfield and infield at a baseball game. I mean you're only watching from home, it doesn't effect you, so why do you care?" It's how the game is played, so why do you want to cry "Aww how does it effect you?" ...just deal with it, haha. Or it's like ANY game you've played...why do they cap party sizes in single player RPG's...they ALREADY have an easy mode for you, why do you want to make it easier? Certain things are designed a certain way for a reason, and wanting to break that mold is just YOU trying to have everything you want.
Why don't you go petition to Blizzard to bring back 40-man raids? Oh wait, you don't want 40 man raids, you want to raid 25-mans with 60 people. I think the real question is why would you even want to take on a challenge made specifically for a certain amount of people with more than that amount? All it sounds like to me is raids are too hard for you and you'd rather have an easy time. Raids are designed a certain way so a certain number of people having a certain array of classes and specs can accomplish a goal not many can. How does it effect me, you wonder? Well I'd rather not even answer that, but I can. There's no sense of accomplishment for most people if it's like that. People WANT a challenge, which is why the raids exist and why hardcore players stick around. To take away that challenge would be stupid in every dev's eyes, and most eyes that play or (in my case) don't play but see the reality and fairness factor in it. Maybe they'll make a new server called PvEE (Player versus Easy Environment) where you just do whatever the hell you want with as many people you want...Until then, learn to love a challenge...or...sit around in Orgrimmar or wherever you want drinking beer. Doesn't matter. Enjoy!
I agree, but being a guild leader in WoW it is hard to walk away or take extended breaks. I started playing MMOs when EQ launched so I'm used to playing games with enough content to keep most players busy for the majority of the time between expansions. It took Blizzard two years to release a new expansion yet it took me less than 5 months to assemble a guild, level to 80, and clear every WotLK dungeon/encounter and we took our time.
I'm hoping with the new dungeon design that Cata will keep us a bit busier between content patches without having to constantly repeat the normal raid then hardmode raid cycle. I'm glad they offer us hardmodes, but copy and pasting another dungeon then adding a new ability to make them harder is just a boring way of keeping people busy.
Ahh im back from a days worth of Xmas shopping.. and obviously the responses pretty much prove my point.. WoW hasn't turned into a social MMO, but is now a E-sport MMO.. That was pretty much summarized by the freudian slip by one poster giving the example of a baseball team....... YEP, that is a competitive sport.. I'm glad to see you compared WoW to that.. However I look at MMO's as social games like kickball, playing charades, or just having 3 legged sack races.. My entertainment doesn't have hard rules, but I see you're does because you like competition and expect everyone else does too..
BTW to the one poster.. I never ASKED why WoW has an ID system.. I know why.. You obviously read my post wrong or fail to comprehend it.. I said WHY is it "better" then a raid system with NO ID restrictions.. I have still failed to hear a reasonable explanation on this.. So many have still gone off on a tangent like politicians and avoided the question..
Happy Holidays
The baseball comparison had nothing to do with an e-sport. I could have used any comparison, but i happen to like (and miss) baseball...but...Why can't you speak during charades or why don't you just untie the people in a 3-legged race? If it doesn't take the fun out of it for you than that doesn't make sense because it's how it's meant to be played, and if you DO speak or DO untie your legs, is it really that same game anymore? I don't think so, but that's debatable for someone who wants everything their way...There are ALWAYS rules to ANY game, competitive or not.
The ID restriction adds to the game, not takes away. Because of the restriction, you plan and calculate and devise strategies because you don't want to have to wait to complete the raid. Without an ID system and being locked out, the encounters become less engaging and overall less satisfying as a player...not only that, if you want to think magically for a bit, maybe Arthas saw you come in and...I don't know, blacklisted you for 7 days. I don't understand why anyone would want to take 100 people to ICC and kill Arthas, it destroys the essence of the game. Who cares who it effects...we all play because we like the game, the lore, the world...Honestly, if you don't like the system, there's no reason for you to want to raid or even argue about it at all as it shouldn't appeal to your sense of fun.
it add's to the game? Really? So if you have a guild of 13 for example.. How fun is it tell 3 to stay home, there is no room for them? How fun is it to try and pug 12 other slots and end up not doing anything becuause too many people are already ID'd to other raids..
please explain to me about all that fun..
edit ps.. obviously you never did raids like the ones in EQ1 or other similar games.. tisk tisk.. you don't know what you're missing..
Haha and I'm sure you had no idea there were only 10 and 25 man raids. No one is telling you to have a guild of 13, but you knew there were set limits, and if you didn't, that's just too bad I guess...it allows you to make new friends and strategize. I didn't say it was always going to be fun for everyone, but it ADDS to the game...not your sense of the game. It's like you set yourself up to not have fun. It's still all about playstyles. If you loves EQ1 or whatever MMO and their raid system of zerging or whatever you're talking about, why are you here complaining about WoW when you could be there praising them for it? And out of curiosity, did you ever fight an outdoor raid boss? And ever fight Archimonde? Some raids and dungeons could get harder with the amount of [stupid] people you bring...just asking/saying (PUGS are comprised of at least a few idiots and kiddies).
It's not like they're not trying to help people like you who hate being locked out or can't get 12 pugs. 10 and 25-mans are now going to drop same gear or something...and they're adding more raids with less bosses so it's more to do and less of things you can't do.
You recruit more to your guild to make two teams. You're only looking at it from your unique situation (having only 13 guild members) instead of looking at it from a game wide perspective. Having an open system would bastardize what already exists in WoW because it WOULD get exploited. Pugs would zerg 25m hardmodes and that is exactly what Blizzard does not want. You are wanting to bring a style of gameplay that existed in EQ1 to a game that was never designed for that mechanic from day one. It's an old archaic way of running raids, there is a reason it's not designed like that today in any game (not just WoW).
Cataclysm does change the way you are ID'd to raids now. It's now on a per boss basis vs the entire instance.
This is probably a shock but Blizzard owns the game. They engineer it as they see fit, to please the highest number of people they can. If you're not pleased with how it works, and it's something they obviously aren't going to change (like Raid lockouts), then they didn't write the game for you and you shouldn't play it.
EQ1 started eleven years ago. Let it go...or go back and play it...see how much fun it is now.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I love how you (and only you) think everything somehow proves your point in every other post you make. Someone mentions baseball and NOW your point is that wow is an esport? It only took you taking a word out of context and performing internet pyschology of someone you know nothing about to prove your point. Strawman attack. Read it ok?
Your question about the raid id system was answered by a few people, but as normal you chose to ignore anything that exposes the flaws in your statements. The raid id system isn't broken and it works just fine. You are not seeing that it is just different. For your desires the open zerg raid system is better, but for most peoples desires it is not.
Honestly there is a reason most companies got away from the EQ raid mechanic. It breed hatred, but that is a different topic all together.
Maybe you should get some inside knowledge from Blizzard, or use a lil common sense.. The number 1 reason.. I repeat.. The NUMBER 1 reason, why Blizzard has a problem with people guild hopping is because too many players are trying to find guilds that will give them raid time.. THIS is exactly why Blizzard is trying to "sorta" fix their guild hopping problem with their upcomming adjustments wtih guild status.. They know it's broke and know the cause, but I can tell you right now, there is no way on this Earthy they will admit to that problem in fear it will open a pandora's box.. However, you are welcome to keep dreaming of green pastures through rose colored glasses.. This will be interesting to see how this new raid ID works and guild status.. I suspect that it will only make problems worse, but we'll see.. I sure as hell dont' see the problem getting better..
BTW.. when you say "it's not broken", you should think about that before making that statement, as Blizzard is about to FIX the problem.. or attempt to.. You think the changes in classes and guilds in Cataclysm is because they are improving it?.. LOL The is precious.. classes changes were to dumb it down even more IMO, and the guild changes are to address ID system that causes problems amongst guilds..
Have a great Holiday
Ho Ho Ho
Why do you bring stuff up when people bring out valid points to debate with you and you just casually ignore them. Numerous posters have explained why the raid ID system is better in WoW but you don't even address them. Do you really think it's 'better' than an end game raid instance is made to be irrelevant because 60 people can just jam in there and zerg the bosses? Outside of instant gratification of everyone killing Arthas, what does Blizzard gain from that other than more people unsubbing because there is no accomplishment in the game anymore? I guarantee you that you would burn out twice as fast as you do now if that was the case. Lets take your hypothetical situation of having only 13 guild members. If this same scenario existed in EQ, what would you have done? You not running raids in EQ with only 13 people. You're joining another guild or getting more people. How is that any different in WoW?
If you really believe in an open system for WoW, I challange you to defend your stance against what I just posted. You probably won't, since that's not as much fun as trolling up every WoW thread.
Oh so now your point is that guild hopping is the real problem? Is this more of your "facts" that "prove" whatever unrealted point you happen to be making? Sorry, but with the extensive knowledge you have displayed about the rest of the game, I am going to have to just take your claims with a heavy dose of salt. I just can't take your claims serious when you say you know the number 1 problem, but blizzard will never admit it, because it will open pandoras box.
If it was such a massive problem as you paint it, people would be quitting or raging all over the place. It would be making headlines all over, but the sound of silence pretty much downs out your cries.
Well I'm sorry if you were always the 11th man left out or you have trouble finding a guild that would let you play with them or whatever your beef may be. You seem to have difficulty telling the difference between something being broken and something not being perfect. The raid id system works, but it could be improved on. I wish you could see the difference in that statement, but for your own reasons you can't.
If it was such a massive problem as you paint it, people would be quitting or raging all over the place. It would be making headlines all over, but the sound of silence pretty much downs out your cries.
Well I'm sorry if you were always the 11th man left out or you have trouble finding a guild that would let you play with them or whatever your beef may be. You seem to have difficulty telling the difference between something being broken and something not being perfect. The raid id system works, but it could be improved on. I wish you could see the difference in that statement, but for your own reasons you can't.
It is pushing the post count up and keeping this thread alive though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This just strikes me as being like the arguments made for aliens building the pyramids and the how aliens obviously aided the Nazis in WWII in building some kind of dimension hopping flying saucer. "No...there's not any real evidence, but the it's the obvious conclusion, don't you see it?"
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
^ this, look up the definition of the word "guild" Rydeson, actually I'll help you out. Guild - An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards. Yes there will be people that dont get to raid sometimes..OMG no what a tragedy!?! but guess what it happens and if your a part of a raid guild it will happen to you at some point in time.
Of course it sucks to not be able to raid every week but thats why you are a "guild" and you work together as a "guild", for the benefit of the "guild", to achieve mutual goals.
The whole point of a raid lockout system is so that people cant farm a boss 24/7 and get everyone geared up within a few weeks. When in a raid guild you work together to take down a boss as a "guild" if half of your guild is getting saved to other raid IDs outside of the guild I have to ask...why?
I dont see a problem with the raid lockout, WoW uses raid lockouts, while games like EQ use repawn times instead on named mobs so you cant farm them 24/7; same system different ways of going about it.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
LOL that is exactly what I was thinking. Thank you!
Do you really think blizzard is trying to support guild ?
Honestly if they wanted to support guilds they would have done so already !!
Guildhalls , (instances with portals hurray another method to join guilds and not suddenly leave)
Guilds reward that will be removed once you guild quit , now join a guild get reward and quit .
Cause people rage against that idea , imagine all the hard work you did stripped (lol you mean all the hard you didn´t do )
Sorry guild still has no consequences , people joining you and leaving will be a bigger nightmare now .
Cause your guild might have free mounts or pets . what will happen is that it even more alienate small communities .
And cause them to withdraw into themself , lockout sorry one reason only .
TIME SINK , cause it take longer for guilds to farm epics , no other reason TIMESINK .
BINGO Drake..
That is why they nerfed the ID system even more with 10/25 sharing the same lockout.. It's to keep the guilds from double dipping into the loot & token bin.. Blizzard needs more timesinks and slow down progression.. I'm surprised how many have bought into their bs that they are HELPING the players.. ha ha ha..
The entire ID system is nothing more then an anti-social timesink, but the sheep keep chasing that carrot.. and are thankful for it too.. /e SHOCKED.. It's almost scarey, like cult members defending their prophet..
Don't donkeys chase carrots?
I figure sheep would chase alfalfa or something.