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In the Laptop scene, whats up?

theyalllietheyalllie Member Posts: 229

Not paying alot of attention to laptops, Ive read a few things here in passing, but have a relative asking me about them.

Yep I told him to just build a desktop, and Yep he said no, for good enough reasons.

As it is he is playing WoW, and some RTS games on his machine, and is struggling a bit.

My thoughts are that, even going to a new Laptop, he will still struggle with the RTS's, and see only small gains in WoW.

My thoughts don't matter to him, til now he wants to know what gpu etc. He is talking 460m vs mobility5870, he is impatient

and I want to really get him to wait for Jan or Feb. I know that the diference between the two is bout 5 fps, and bout 5watts, and really just a question of which is cheaper and paired with which CPU. My choice would be the ATI with an I5 in a big platform to help with heat dispersment.

As I recall there is a CPU comming out then that will help the Laptop scene, and the ATI mobility6000, along with that, would be the way to go, given that he insists on laptop.

On the off chance he might even listen to me,( yeah he asked but doesn';t mean he will listen), Can you guys give me some really good ammo to use in the discussion as to why to wait? My vague knowledge of laptops won't work against his buddy's who are of the , buy now, blame later, crowd.

He also thinks he's going to get serious performance increase for $1000, I dont. His current is a 3.0 dual core, with a geforce 240, or something very close to that, Windows 7, 64 bit, I knew but have forgotten exactly.

Comments

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    I need to learn to read OP topic fully...

    Nevermind

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,687

    Ask him whether he wants:

    a)  a Nehalem architecture Core i7 740QM with a stock clock speed of 1.73 GHz that will turbo boost a single core only up to 2.93 GHz, or

    b)  a Sandy Bridge architecture Core i7 2720QM with a stock clock speed of 2.2 GHz with turbo boost up to 3.3 GHz, better performance per clock cycle than the Nehalem, and no greater power consumption.

    Remind him that if a game is processor bound, performance really isn't helped by turning down video settings, so if a processor is inadequate for a game, you're basically stuck and the game won't run well.  If he chooses a, then tell him that he doesn't want a faster laptop and should just save the money and keep what he has.

  • theyalllietheyalllie Member Posts: 229

    Thankyou Quiz, unfortunately he went for a. But I was wrong about his current laptop, it is a 1.6 dual core with a 9600 gpu.

    He got an Asus G73 with the 740QM and 460M 1.5. 8gigs, blueray, bluetooth, fuzzy dice, and spinners,lol .

    I was hoping he would wait dangit, that sandybridge with the 6500m looks like it will be a combination to recon with, in laptops, for performance and price.

    I really wanted to build him a PC, had been following prices and was waiting for Black Friday, but .... bling won out.

    Again thanks, this is one of those days I wish I still drank.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,687

    And he didn't even get a solid state drive in it, either.  So he paid around $1700 for a computer that feels painfully slow, runs very hot, is fragile, and will be throughly obsolete to the degree of being pointless in about a month and a half.  I guess this is why they say, a fool and his money are soon parted.

    We're probably several years away from having gaming laptops that are actually pretty nice, though I do think we'll get there eventually.  Sandy Bridge was going to be a big step in the right direction, though.

  • theyalllietheyalllie Member Posts: 229

    Yeah we will see, "They" said that he could play Crysis and Bad Company, on max settings with this. Either someone told him or he read a review. The identity of "They" was not revealed.

    $1499 on time ....

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,687

    Sure, they'll run on max settings, as opposed to blue screening.  Running at a playable frame rate is a different matter, though.

  • theyalllietheyalllie Member Posts: 229

    Ha I now know why, when I was 26 and would ask my fathers opinion, he would just swirl his Scotch and look at the floor.

    lol

    PS. I will add that I hope he finds the machine to his liking. At the end of the day, I would gladly be mistaken, in lieu of his happiness

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,597

    You have as good a mind on the subject as any, as you don't really need to know the ins and outs of laptops to know that what you can get now isn't going to be dramatically better than what he's already got.  The biggest improvement would probably be that the uber-expensive laptop he's about to get will likely have a solid state drive, which will have uber-quick load times and might improve virtual memory performance; all good for fighting hitching.

    Personally I'd go build something with this:

    http://www.clearpc.ca/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=30

    build with good pc parts...and find a bag for my KVM.

    Never ever have I understood the logic of laptop gamers, at least those expecting satisfying graphic/response performance.  To pay 2-3 times as much for half the performance; I could be a millionaire and still not find that endeavor worth my money.

    I guess it's just their way of prolonging their everlasting disappointment.

  • theyalllietheyalllie Member Posts: 229

    It does not have a SSD, it has a 7200 RPM HD, but it's specs say it has 1 HD and 2 HD bays. This makes me wonder if a SSD could be added, and, how simple a proceedure that is?

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,597

    Originally posted by theyalllie

    It does not have a SSD, it has a 7200 RPM HD, but it's specs say it has 1 HD and 2 HD bays. This makes me wonder if a SSD could be added, and, how simple a proceedure that is?

    It should be remarkably simple, but IMO, the SSD should most definitely be the system drive.  I'd swap 'em out.

    Pretty cool that it has two bays..

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,687

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by theyalllie

    It does not have a SSD, it has a 7200 RPM HD, but it's specs say it has 1 HD and 2 HD bays. This makes me wonder if a SSD could be added, and, how simple a proceedure that is?

    It should be remarkably simple, but IMO, the SSD should most definitely be the system drive.  I'd swap 'em out.

    You'd have to open up the laptop, but yeah, it should be easy as laptop operations go.

    By my reckoning, the first gaming laptops that are actually decently nice are due to launch in 2013.  It will be based on a 22 nm die shrink of AMD's upcoming Trinity APU.  Such a die shrink isn't yet announced, but surely it has to be coming.  It will probably use DDR4 memory, and get adequate memory bandwidth that way.  The die shrink will allow for laptop CPU performance to continue to close in on desktop performance.  Having the GPU on what is likely to be an HKMG SOI process should keep power consumption in check.  If DirectX 11 catches on by then, then aggressive use of tessellation should allow games to scale easily to low graphical settings.  For older games, that's a chance for the hardware to catch up.  That should make it so nearly any game runs smoothly on the laptop at moderate settings.  And it shouldn't run obnoxiously hot or loud, either.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    You'd have to open up the laptop, but yeah, it should be easy as laptop operations go.

    By my reckoning, the first gaming laptops that are actually decently nice are due to launch in 2013.  It will be based on a 22 nm die shrink of AMD's upcoming Trinity APU.  Such a die shrink isn't yet announced, but surely it has to be coming.  It will probably use DDR4 memory, and get adequate memory bandwidth that way.  The die shrink will allow for laptop CPU performance to continue to close in on desktop performance.  Having the GPU on what is likely to be an HKMG SOI process should keep power consumption in check.  If DirectX 11 catches on by then, then aggressive use of tessellation should allow games to scale easily to low graphical settings.  For older games, that's a chance for the hardware to catch up.  That should make it so nearly any game runs smoothly on the laptop at moderate settings.  And it shouldn't run obnoxiously hot or loud, either.

    Hmm, I think I have more faith in Intel there than AMD but whichever it will be I still have my doubts of 2013. The GPUs will still be too large and warm in 2013 to make a good gaming laptop, I would say 2015 earliest depending on what ATI and Nvidia have in store for us by then.

    To be honest are Intel, AMD/ATI and Nvidia all more interested in performance then size and particularly the GFX cards have grown a lot the last few years. 15 years ago were most GFX card small even though Matrox cards were somewhat larger, but nothing compared to a modern high end card. Eventually will nano technology get down the size again but I am doubtful 22 nm is enough there, they will work to get it faster instead of colder there. 

    I must say that I am pretty surprised that computers havn't become smaller today, but it seems that everything is about performance instead. And if that continues we might have to wait a long time for a good gaming laptop.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,687

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Hmm, I think I have more faith in Intel there than AMD but whichever it will be I still have my doubts of 2013. The GPUs will still be too large and warm in 2013 to make a good gaming laptop, I would say 2015 earliest depending on what ATI and Nvidia have in store for us by then.

    Intel has been releasing graphics products for 13 years and has yet to launch a single respectable product.  AMD has had some good processors and some bad ones, but that's a lot better than all bad ones and no good ones.  Basically, I'm betting that AMD will catch up on processors (likely as soon as this Spring with Bulldozer) before Intel will catch up on graphics.  An APU without a discrete card is how you fix the heat problems.

  • NavajNavaj Member UncommonPosts: 12

    I guess I'm one of the few has had sub-$1500 "gaming" laptops  for the last few years and had no problems.

    I will admit I am not an FPSer, so uber frame-rate isn't my major concern, but even playing such games like Mass Effect 2/Dragon Age: Origins as well as Starcraft 2 and Age of Conan/WoW , I have been very happy with the performance of my current system (Asus N61J ) that I purchased last March.

    I'd think there would be better systems availble now.

     

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