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Am I the only one who found this mmo lacking variety of skills to use and unstylish?

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  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by Tyrrhon

    ...

    The combat is arguably LOTRO biggest issue. It makes them lose players before they get hooked enough. People are not stupid, they feel when something is amiss, but most are not smart enough to pinpoint what is actually amiss. It may be lack of response, crucial skills postponed for too late, classes that do not have well defined identity, may be the combat is even *too fast* so it all blurs together, maybe the travel between mobs is too long. Turbine had years to find the reason and nothing happened.

    You indeed do have to stick to 30 or in some cases past 40. Some issues fix itself, to the rest you just get used to.

    Just because you personally don't like LotrOs combat doesn't mean it's bad. I prefer LotrO combat over WoW or any other similar MMO, Turbine made a design choice with the combat and changing it would piss of alot of players.

    People on this forum take their own opinions way to seriouse...

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  • ElderRatElderRat Member CommonPosts: 899

    Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

    Part of the problem is the classes do need to fit into the lore so your not going to get a Lotro version of a deathknight etc . Having said that the classes that are there are for the most part pretty good . I've played a hunter , a minstral and a lore master over the past two years and I've not found them unstylish as such but it depends what you compare them too or whichever game you've just come from . The combat is certainly slower than WoW but on the other hand the pve questing is more challenging and interesting . The toons are a little stiff but the landscape is far better than what wow has to offer . The variety of skills in each class as the game progresses are good enough for me . I would say maybe WoW has a slight edge in this regard but if I were to compare the two games as they are now . Lotro offers interesting rpg storyline elements and superior pve in terms of both quests and instances (and challenge) WoW still offers some of the best pvp in an mmo anywhere but the pve is watered down now to the point its virtually unplayable to any but the most novice gamers . Both games have pluses and minuses .

     I have no problem with the classes in LOTRO.  In other games I do play Necro's and classes not found in LOTRO but I think having a Necro in this game would be wrong.  I think a similiar argument to this thread would be "Why are there no Wookies in EVE",  you got to go with the IP.  I also think that those who are not happy with this game are, as was said earlier, familiar with the movies not the books.

    Currently bored with MMO's.

  • RocketeerRocketeer Member UncommonPosts: 1,303

    I think one of the things people have trouble putting to words is that LotRO doesn't really have a lot of subclasses, and thus you can easily get bored if you don't find that perfect class.

    For example in WoW, you decide you want to play a class cursing people with black magic and slowly killing them with dots. Fine take the warlock. Oh you hate petclasses? Fine take the shadow priest. You want to go dual wield madness slinging around a sword in each hand? Take the Warrior. You don't like the rage mechanic? Fine, go combat rogue. Same for tanking, magic DD or healing. The subclasses in WoW can change your play experience greatly, while the customisation in LotRO just isn't there apart from the RK.

    If you want to play a tank its either Guard or Warden, if your not comfortable with the guards mechanics, and the warden is too far out there for you your out of luck, no tanking for you in LotRO. Same for ranged DD, either "magical" RK or plain hunter. Thats it. Melee DD? Champion. You have less choice in LotRO, and you can not tailor your class of choice into what you personally enjoy, and people might call that lack of variety.

     

    This is especially hard pre 50 and LIs, as a very big chunk of customisation only arives around higher levels via the skills and traits there, and if you give up before that you never know.

  • arebareb Member Posts: 144

    I always thought combat, specifically group combat was one of Lotro's strengths.  In fact I like Lotro combat more than any game.  Especially at the level cap in groups is where things are interesting.  I have 3 65s and combat is interesting for each one.

    I assume most people complaining about combat are F2Pers who are fairly low level and haven't done much group content, because end-game group combat really offers a lot.

    Captain:

    DPS chain is fairly simple, but it's not a DPS class.  You have to spend time buffing your shield brother, popping defeat response skills, and tossing heals/fear removal.  And you don't want to be a captain who lets his buffs expire of his banner to fade.  The result is a lot of skills, and a good challenge when things get hairy.

    Burglar:

    Quite a lot of DPS skills, plus debuffs and CC.  The pace of combat is quicker than most classes as well.  A good challenge when you need to be keeping something riddled, another mob interrupted with adle, all while DPSing.

    Champion:

    As far as pure DPS classes go this is a good one.  You have to manage your fervour.  You also have several buffs skill which make a difference when you use them correctly (flurry, exchange of blows, fighting dirty, red haze).  Red haze is a skill you use a TON and you don't even get it until around lvl 50.  Honestly anyone can play a champ, but not many can properly balance, AoE vs. single target skills, buffs, and manage your stance properly.

    On top of your class skills, every class in Lotro has to look out for a few things:

    1) The 4 debuff types: fear, poison, disease and wound.  I always found it took players a while to realize that these are bad, and you have to pay attention to them and remove them when you are in important situations.

    2) Corruptions: these can also be nasty and are something to look out for, and removed when appropriate.

    3) Interrupts: Certain class have to pay attention more than others, but if you are a burglar/champ, you'd be paying attention.

    Of course, you can play the game without really optimizing your play, but that's the difference between the average player and the good player.

  • OkhamsRazorOkhamsRazor Member Posts: 1,047

    Originally posted by ElderRat

    Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

    Part of the problem is the classes do need to fit into the lore so your not going to get a Lotro version of a deathknight etc . Having said that the classes that are there are for the most part pretty good . I've played a hunter , a minstral and a lore master over the past two years and I've not found them unstylish as such but it depends what you compare them too or whichever game you've just come from . The combat is certainly slower than WoW but on the other hand the pve questing is more challenging and interesting . The toons are a little stiff but the landscape is far better than what wow has to offer . The variety of skills in each class as the game progresses are good enough for me . I would say maybe WoW has a slight edge in this regard but if I were to compare the two games as they are now . Lotro offers interesting rpg storyline elements and superior pve in terms of both quests and instances (and challenge) WoW still offers some of the best pvp in an mmo anywhere but the pve is watered down now to the point its virtually unplayable to any but the most novice gamers . Both games have pluses and minuses .

     I have no problem with the classes in LOTRO.  In other games I do play Necro's and classes not found in LOTRO but I think having a Necro in this game would be wrong.  I think a similiar argument to this thread would be "Why are there no Wookies in EVE",  you got to go with the IP.  I also think that those who are not happy with this game are, as was said earlier, familiar with the movies not the books.

     Actually I've been thinking about it there is a necromancer in the hobbit i recall . When Gandolf leaves Bilbo and the dwarves he goes off to fight him . Its only hinted at what happens as the book simply follows the story of smaugs treasure etc . I guess some variation of a necromancer would fit into monster play at a push .

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Member UncommonPosts: 697

    Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

    Originally posted by ElderRat

    Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

    Part of the problem is the classes do need to fit into the lore so your not going to get a Lotro version of a deathknight etc . Having said that the classes that are there are for the most part pretty good . I've played a hunter , a minstral and a lore master over the past two years and I've not found them unstylish as such but it depends what you compare them too or whichever game you've just come from . The combat is certainly slower than WoW but on the other hand the pve questing is more challenging and interesting . The toons are a little stiff but the landscape is far better than what wow has to offer . The variety of skills in each class as the game progresses are good enough for me . I would say maybe WoW has a slight edge in this regard but if I were to compare the two games as they are now . Lotro offers interesting rpg storyline elements and superior pve in terms of both quests and instances (and challenge) WoW still offers some of the best pvp in an mmo anywhere but the pve is watered down now to the point its virtually unplayable to any but the most novice gamers . Both games have pluses and minuses .

     I have no problem with the classes in LOTRO.  In other games I do play Necro's and classes not found in LOTRO but I think having a Necro in this game would be wrong.  I think a similiar argument to this thread would be "Why are there no Wookies in EVE",  you got to go with the IP.  I also think that those who are not happy with this game are, as was said earlier, familiar with the movies not the books.

     Actually I've been thinking about it there is a necromancer in the hobbit i recall . When Gandolf leaves Bilbo and the dwarves he goes off to fight him . Its only hinted at what happens as the book simply follows the story of smaugs treasure etc . I guess some variation of a necromancer would fit into monster play at a push .

     It turns out that Gandalf went to Dol Guldur where he discovered that the Necromancer was Sauron returned.

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  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Member UncommonPosts: 1,592

    I think the classes and their abilitiies are fine. It's the lackluster animations and tinny sound effects thta make it seem boring. DDO has the exact same problem.

    <3

  • TyrrhonTyrrhon Member Posts: 412

    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    I think the classes and their abilitiies are fine. It's the lackluster animations and tinny sound effects thta make it seem boring. DDO has the exact same problem.

    Ha ha, did you know all wardens are animated the same, based on human male, even female hobbits? No wonder it feels lackluster. (No idea about rest but this is confirmed by Turbine.)

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,966

    Originally posted by Angelbound

    I know there are lore rules, I really understand that but the only real reason I quit was not enough skills to play around with in this game, and lack of visual effects, the only one I saw where any good was the warden but not the classes I liked, like the captain, the runekeeper, and the loremaster, ok the loremaster was cool but considering his main damage spell was fire it was a bit repetitive and never been a fan of fire.

     

    Anyways I am just wondering who else feels the same way, the content is amazing the mmorpg is fine nothing new but polished and fine but the classes felt to boring to me.

    Well, if you are talking about "flashy stuff" then I can't really be on the same page as you. Though there is a way to enable more "effects" in lotro, all these effects in these games, with the exception of mages, always seem gratutious and unecessary.

    I don't see why there should be light shows for melee or archers with the exception of some of the eastern games as it fits the style.

    However, if you are talking about animations then yet, they really can leave something to be desired. Even some of the more mundane animations can be atrocious.

    For instance, take an elf female and put her in "walk" mode and tell me that anyone really walks that way. It's like they fused the spine and she can't move her body an inch for fear of cracking in half.

    I actually enjoy the warden animations but swinging a two handed sword also leaves a lot to be desired.

    Edit, don't get me started on how the hair is just a solid chunk of clay. Look at some of the asian games and the hair, regardless of whether one likes the styles, looks and feels like hair.

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  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    No, can't say it ever bothered me.  The only things that get on my nerves about LotR gameplay combat are:

    1.  Combat in general terms just seems slower paced than other mmos.  It takes some getting used to and once you do it isn't noticeable at all but always takes me a bit to get used to how "delayed" things feel.

    2. The amount of warcries, yells, screams, etc. different classes have is annoying if you have that audible.  Just gets really old after a while.

    Rather enjoy the classes myself.  Especially the ones that are more of a hybrid because to me it is fun using them in different roles and spices up gameplay a bit.  More than I've found in some other mmos.  Especially the loremaster and captain classes.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ElderRatElderRat Member CommonPosts: 899

    Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

    Originally posted by ElderRat

    Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

    Part of the problem is the classes do need to fit into the lore so your not going to get a Lotro version of a deathknight etc . Having said that the classes that are there are for the most part pretty good . I've played a hunter , a minstral and a lore master over the past two years and I've not found them unstylish as such but it depends what you compare them too or whichever game you've just come from . The combat is certainly slower than WoW but on the other hand the pve questing is more challenging and interesting . The toons are a little stiff but the landscape is far better than what wow has to offer . The variety of skills in each class as the game progresses are good enough for me . I would say maybe WoW has a slight edge in this regard but if I were to compare the two games as they are now . Lotro offers interesting rpg storyline elements and superior pve in terms of both quests and instances (and challenge) WoW still offers some of the best pvp in an mmo anywhere but the pve is watered down now to the point its virtually unplayable to any but the most novice gamers . Both games have pluses and minuses .

     I have no problem with the classes in LOTRO.  In other games I do play Necro's and classes not found in LOTRO but I think having a Necro in this game would be wrong.  I think a similiar argument to this thread would be "Why are there no Wookies in EVE",  you got to go with the IP.  I also think that those who are not happy with this game are, as was said earlier, familiar with the movies not the books.

     Actually I've been thinking about it there is a necromancer in the hobbit i recall . When Gandolf leaves Bilbo and the dwarves he goes off to fight him . Its only hinted at what happens as the book simply follows the story of smaugs treasure etc . I guess some variation of a necromancer would fit into monster play at a push .

     It was Sauron in disguise if I recall.

    Currently bored with MMO's.

  • AngelboundAngelbound Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,437

    Hmmm lots of replies here, ok first I am not into anime games espically ones with stupid item malls, second there is a differance between flashy light show and magical flashy light show therefor should not be a problem if not a light show then you need some nice physics its a game I play games not to remind me of real life and many others do, you may not but that is how I enjoy games.

    There are no options to change special effects I had it all at max settings but your not going to see nothing but subtle effects in lotro except maybe the warden and somewhat runekeeper. Maybe I should try it more maybe I can open my mind some more, and I am smart enough to figure it out I am perfectly aware the content is amazing compared to other mmorpgs, I hope I can see the classes differantly so far all I have really tried is hunter found them major lacking in attacks filled with ports I love archer classes but I find this one to little attacks to spam

     

    Tried runekeeper 10 levels was dissapointed with the elemental side of the class I need to see more flashy effects then that, the lightning was fine though, loremaster got him to about level 18 not bad but still boring, I enjoy the animations there great except the fire one, but it is a late blooming class I need a class that feels more fun each level, I do not wish to play a class and go omg cannot wait until level 40 to get this powerful ability to turn the tide in battles the grind to 40 is so boring etc.

     

    Atleast not until I already have a max toon then I might be able to do it, tried the captain so dissapointed, in the special effects, and the 2h slow melee style not my thing on paper it is perfect for me just as versatile as my personality and my most usual main classes in mmorpgs but in the end got him to 28 havent played him since, he was still fun in groups but I need to be into my class not into only some of the abilities.

     

    Others I barely tried to 5 levels, never got around to it.

     

     

  • hanshotfirsthanshotfirst Member UncommonPosts: 712

    Ironically, after playing several classes up to and beyond level 30, I'm having the exact opposite reaction. There's too many skills: I literally have 5 skill bars visible and most are nearly full. Additionally, many (though certainly not all) have a bit too much stylish "flash" for my tastes. I appreciate game designers want to give visual feedback to help distinguish the abilities, but some of it goes a bit over the top.



    That said, I'd agree (particularly at lower levels) there's not a ton of variety or distinction between many of the classes. A Captain, a Guardian and a Champion (and to some extent, even a Burglar) all feel *very* similar. It's to be expected I suppose, given that they're all just subtle variations of whacking something with a sword.



    My biggest gripe with the game however (which is relatively minor; I think LotRO is a great overall value) is with the character models and textures. In my opinion, they just aren't of the same caliber/quality as the breathtaking landscapes. There's also very little variety in the armor/clothing.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    Originally posted by hanshotfirst

    My biggest gripe with the game however (which is relatively minor; I think LotRO is a great overall value) is with the character models and textures. In my opinion, they just aren't of the same caliber/quality as the breathtaking landscapes. There's also very little variety in the armor/clothing.

     Yep, never quite understood that. 

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • gauge2k3gauge2k3 Member Posts: 442

    Like the OP I tried very hard to like this game.

    The armor is very uninpsireing.  You don't look very heroic in this game unless you pay money for armor graphics.  The skill effects are very very bland.  Even WoW beats this game on skill effects.

    The quests I found very bland and unexciting.  Suprising for a game that gets rave reviews about lore.  I just found the entire game very bland.

    Also, no one liked the D&D gfx engine so why did they use it on their MMO?  Texturing in this graphics engine is just aweful.  How much horsepower you need for what you get is just bad.  Look at lineage 2, it's still beautiful, and it does all that on textures and bump mapping.

    I wish I could see what people love in this game but I just couldn't.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,966

    Originally posted by Angelbound

     

    There are no options to change special effects I had it all at max settings but your not going to see nothing but subtle effects in lotro except maybe the warden and somewhat runekeeper

     

    Under UI there are special effects options. They might not be what you want them to be but they allow you to add some special effects. therefore there are options to change special effects.

    Also, under combat options you can add optional response indicators as well as optional combat animations. But again, they might not be what you want but they are there. I am still confused as to what you are actually lookjng for as I do think you are looking for more of a light show. Perhaps you can share a game that you think does it "right" so that we may understand more of where you are coming from?

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  • Krky7Krky7 Member UncommonPosts: 50

    I've been playing LOTRO on and off for three years, and there are two major things that fascinate me about this awesome game.

    1) The number of things you can tweak, tune, micromanage and min/max - from your character's equipment, to cosmetic looks, the legendary weapons, horse collection, skirmish soldiers, monster play char, deeds, skills, house and kinhouse and so on... I can safely say that I've never seen such depth and versatility of content in any MMO, and I've played pretty much all of them. 

    2) The amount of fun you actually get from tweaking and tuning all of the above. As soon as one thing starts to get old, you jump to another, and by the time you tweak them all you can hardly wait to once more sink your teeth in the one that seemed a bit dull on the first glance. This game is constantly evolving and changing for the better. I'm not saying it's TOTALLY devoid of grind, but there are tons of fun ways around it.   

  • AngelboundAngelbound Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,437

    All the combat animations does is smooth out auto attack between skills or something along those lines is what I heard I will look into the ui settings do not think there is anything that will change special effects though.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,966

    Originally posted by Angelbound

    All the combat animations does is smooth out auto attack between skills or something along those lines is what I heard I will look into the ui settings do not think there is anything that will change special effects though.

    I had the game open and was reading off the what I saw in the window.

    As I said it might not be what you want but it's there. Maybe it's already enabled and it's just not as thrilling as you'd like.

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  • AngelboundAngelbound Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,437

    Well I am giving it another shot, trying a warden soon and maybe if im more patient with the loremaster i will enjoy it more.

  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,167

    Originally posted by Angelbound

    All the combat animations does is smooth out auto attack between skills or something along those lines is what I heard I will look into the ui settings do not think there is anything that will change special effects though.

    You have optional animations that add some more to the fight and animation blending which will play the next combo animation before the previous is finished to make things feel faster. Neither make it spectacular but I like it. As I've said in other threads, LoTRO makes my toon feel like a common adventurer who is having to put forth some effort to accomplish unthinkable tasks with the help of friends.

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907

    Originally posted by Angelbound

    Tried a champ for a little while and to be honest the special effects where pretty meh they reminded me I was playing the game nothing of a fantasy world, I prefer special effects that actually look well mystical or flashy, some skills just showed a symbol or something I know rogues shows dice couldnt stand that reminds me of rl to much hehe.

    Ah...see, I totally disagree with that. I HATE corny effects and cheesy flashes of light. TBH, the effects in game are strikingly similar to the movies - the whole "fear" effect is done perfectly and drunk is flipping amazing. I'm very please I don't have to chase through mystical effects and annoying glows just to stay on my Mob. Too many games toss in ridiculous amounts of "effects". But, you're waiting for DCUO, so I see you prefer that kinda "flash". Just a matter of personal preference I guess.

  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907

    Originally posted by gauge2k3

    Like the OP I tried very hard to like this game.

    The armor is very uninpsireing.  You don't look very heroic in this game unless you pay money for armor graphics.  The skill effects are very very bland.  Even WoW beats this game on skill effects.

    The quests I found very bland and unexciting.  Suprising for a game that gets rave reviews about lore.  I just found the entire game very bland.

    Also, no one liked the D&D gfx engine so why did they use it on their MMO?  Texturing in this graphics engine is just aweful.  How much horsepower you need for what you get is just bad.  Look at lineage 2, it's still beautiful, and it does all that on textures and bump mapping.

    I wish I could see what people love in this game but I just couldn't.

    Have you ever seen the movies??? 1st of all, there is NO, NONE, ZERO Armor you can buy in the store. I wish there was some. I'm sorry you find it "bland" - I find it quite well done compared to the actual movies. As far as WoW beating the game in "effects"?! Perhaps. Guess it's just a matter of personal opinion. I prefer the more 'bland' style of lotro to WoW any day.

    I disagree on the quests too. There are SO many and there are a TON of variety to them all, including the EPIC line.

    No one liked the D&D gfx engine? I never played Lineage nor D&D, but I LOVE they styling in lotro. Maybe it's your rig mate?!

    To each their own. You don't need to like it. I hope you enjoy whatever game floats your boat though.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,606

    Originally posted by Angelbound

    I know there are lore rules, I really understand that but the only real reason I quit was not enough skills to play around with in this game, and lack of visual effects, the only one I saw where any good was the warden but not the classes I liked, like the captain, the runekeeper, and the loremaster, ok the loremaster was cool but considering his main damage spell was fire it was a bit repetitive and never been a fan of fire.

     

    Anyways I am just wondering who else feels the same way, the content is amazing the mmorpg is fine nothing new but polished and fine but the classes felt to boring to me.

    Sounds like the RK or Warden would have been a good fit for you.  Unfortunately, with F2P you have to buy them.

    If I remember correctly, Wardens have about 15-20 attack options by level 20 and over 40 by max level, not including toggles and deed-earned skills.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,606

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Have you ever seen the movies??? 1st of all, there is NO, NONE, ZERO Armor you can buy in the store. I wish there was some. I'm sorry you find it "bland" - I find it quite well done compared to the actual movies. As far as WoW beating the game in "effects"?! Perhaps. Guess it's just a matter of personal opinion. I prefer the more 'bland' style of lotro to WoW any day.

    I disagree on the quests too. There are SO many and there are a TON of variety to them all, including the EPIC line.

    No one liked the D&D gfx engine? I never played Lineage nor D&D, but I LOVE they styling in lotro. Maybe it's your rig mate?!

    To each their own. You don't need to like it. I hope you enjoy whatever game floats your boat though.

    I'm with ya.  matter of fact, the "power recycle" effect on my hunter, where I glow blue and there's that whooshing sound, to me, gets old pretty quick.  Yes, I know I recover power when I use my bow skills, chill out on all the "bluey" stuff!  :P

    That's one of the reasons that I liked that cooked food now increases your morale/power recovery instead of "healing".  No more "whoosh" <glow green/blue> effect.

    I much prefer the more subtle, natural effects.  And it's better for grouping as well.  I remember playing CoX grouped, then playing LotRO grouped in the same night.  WOW was it much easier to see what was going on in LotRO compared to 8 different power sound effects and blue/red/yellow glowie blasts/sheilds/auras emanating from everything!

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