Aren't "hardmodes" optional? Can a player not casually do normal 10 mans and see most if not all content? If so then that's what in saying you don't truly need to raid to experience the game. Since that's the case you can still very much enjoy wow as a non-raider.
Oh yeah, totally. Regular mode raids are exactly intended for casuals. And I also agree that the vast majority of players never even enter a raid much less complete one. Most are just out having fun doing other things.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Because the PVP and daily activity is entertaining enough. Not many people just play WOW to RAID with groups of annoying power mad teenagers. Most people are in it just for the fun factor. If they just wanted hard core raiding other games offer better challenges than WOW.
Which begs the question why has GC tried to alienate everyone but the progression raiders. Everything I hear about CAT is that raiders love it and everyone else hates it.
People that hate raiding probably play for a few reasons. Their friends play and would rather be elsewhere. Their wife or husband loves the game. Their kids play. They still enjoy world pvp or arenas despite the broken classes and talents. Or they have been playing the game so long they dont really know anything else. For many people wow was their first mmorpg and they probably dont know how to quit. Alot of people are easily pleased casuals that just want more vanity pets. They dont really care about raiding as long as they can do 5 mans from time to time.
if the majority of WoW players dont like raiding, than what is keeping these players interested in WoW?
Endgame in WoW consist of nothing but Raiding. But only a small percentage of WoW players raid. Blizzard must be doing something, that is holding these "Non-raiders" interested.
More dungeons + lengthy, tiered dungeon progression
More quests + lengthy, tiered solo progression
Tiered crafting recipes/mats from the above locations (or some alternative way of having crafting provide these progression items without breaking the other forms of progression.)
Other elements (like PVP, socializing, and the AH) already keep a lot of players busy doing things they enjoy.
Raiding just waters down my gameplay too much. I don't mind taking on tough challenges, but consistently failing (unless I'm a nazi about which guild I join) due to others is not enjoyable.
However, I find that being highly successful with a group of friends due to teamwork can be exceedingly enjoyable.
Exactly, which is why small group content rocks. You discover your friends in random low-tier small groups, then you'd take those friends into the higher tier progression and have some really enjoyable gaming experiences.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
More dungeons + lengthy, tiered dungeon progression
More quests + lengthy, tiered solo progression
Tiered crafting recipes/mats from the above locations (or some alternative way of having crafting provide these progression items without breaking the other forms of progression.)
Other elements (like PVP, socializing, and the AH) already keep a lot of players busy doing things they enjoy.
Raiding just waters down my gameplay too much. I don't mind taking on tough challenges, but consistently failing (unless I'm a nazi about which guild I join) due to others is not enjoyable.
However, I find that being highly successful with a group of friends due to teamwork can be exceedingly enjoyable.
Exactly, which is why small group content rocks. You discover your friends in random low-tier small groups, then you'd take those friends into the higher tier progression and have some really enjoyable gaming experiences.
Cannot remember the last time I did a 5 man with somebody actually from my server... cannot remember the last battleground where I was not the only or perhaps 1 of 2 people from my server.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
if the majority of WoW players dont like raiding, than what is keeping these players interested in WoW?
Endgame in WoW consist of nothing but Raiding. But only a small percentage of WoW players raid. Blizzard must be doing something, that is holding these "Non-raiders" interested.
What could it be?
Most people in WoW are casual gamers who don't necessarily like MMORPGs. They probably never even make it to level cap. There's nothing worth doing in WoW, even the raiding is lack luster. The only people that stick around are those who haven't played other better MMOs.
Exactly, which is why small group content rocks. You discover your friends in random low-tier small groups, then you'd take those friends into the higher tier progression and have some really enjoyable gaming experiences.
Cannot remember the last time I did a 5 man with somebody actually from my server... cannot remember the last battleground where I was not the only or perhaps 1 of 2 people from my server.
Wow, you don't do 5 mans with friends or guildies? Well, I certainly do. I tank for randoms every once in a while and it makes me want to pull my hair out. Usually, we get some of us together so that we deal with randoms as little as possible. The only time we ever really use the finder is when we need one or two more to fill spots.
I also never PvP in BGs without at least a couple friends because it just isn't the same without them. It's amazing what the win percentage can be when you have a few of your PvP friends join up.
In my opinion, both of those activities are incredibly more enjoyable to do with friends on the server. Or even just some guildy acquaintances. MMORPGs would be a tough sell for me if I was soloing everything that was group oriented. To each their own, I suppose.
Not sure what about raiding turned me off. I used to raid in Everquest and did it religiously but it was never like it was in WoW Although it could take hours and hours but it was a different atmosphere. I recall the 2 day Fear camps and waiting for the mobs that drop wizard gear to appear . I think the difference was how we had to break Fear or getting into Temple of Veeshan and horror of horrors the getting out which was even harder in Veeshan since you could not gate out that might have tipped the scales.
I think WoW made it like a routine like a scheduled performance. There was no real difficulty aside from the occasional wipe from some mistakes unlike Everquest where mistakes meant many many deaths and corpse recovery. The gear was welcome but the actual breaking and keeping it and taking the place in shifts was what made the runs. It was not only for the loot.
I hardly raided in WoW but I still played it for the bgs and the levels and the quests but the journey became the interest. So I would not say I stayed in WoW for the raids because no game has ever topped raiding in Everquest.
Exactly, which is why small group content rocks. You discover your friends in random low-tier small groups, then you'd take those friends into the higher tier progression and have some really enjoyable gaming experiences.
Cannot remember the last time I did a 5 man with somebody actually from my server... cannot remember the last battleground where I was not the only or perhaps 1 of 2 people from my server.
Wow, you don't do 5 mans with friends or guildies? Well, I certainly do. I tank for randoms every once in a while and it makes me want to pull my hair out. Usually, we get some of us together so that we deal with randoms as little as possible. The only time we ever really use the finder is when we need one or two more to fill spots.
I also never PvP in BGs without at least a couple friends because it just isn't the same without them. It's amazing what the win percentage can be when you have a few of your PvP friends join up.
In my opinion, both of those activities are incredibly more enjoyable to do with friends on the server. Or even just some guildy acquaintances. MMORPGs would be a tough sell for me if I was soloing everything that was group oriented. To each their own, I suppose.
I was the only person in the guild that bought LK way back when. Only person that has logged in from the guild since before the launch of LK. I know five or so other folks from another guild I was in (a couple from back in my HLDM days)... but they are raiders...so...
...have basically played by myself since before LK.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
if the majority of WoW players dont like raiding, than what is keeping these players interested in WoW?
Endgame in WoW consist of nothing but Raiding. But only a small percentage of WoW players raid. Blizzard must be doing something, that is holding these "Non-raiders" interested.
What could it be?
Most people in WoW are casual gamers who don't necessarily like MMORPGs. They probably never even make it to level cap. There's nothing worth doing in WoW, even the raiding is lack luster. The only people that stick around are those who haven't played other better MMOs.
This is complete and uter garbage and just untrue. Just because u are a wow hater and a troll doesnt make wow players mmorpg haters. It just makes u a troll. I have 5 80s i raid i dont pvp much but i pefer pve. I have played wow for 5 years alot of the people i know and am in guild with have played wow since beta.
They love mmos. Some of them started in eq and ultima others in diffrent mmos. They love mmos and they play wow and enjoy it. Just because u dont like wow doesnt make those that do mmorpg haters. the only hater here is u.
As for end game beign able to roll alts and enjoy doing so is part of endgame and what makes a game fun to play. to many people tend to post stuff like remember when u had to walk 3 hrs to find a quest wasnt that fun. Well no it wasnt fun.
Remember when u had to write down where u died and hope u got to your body before u lost your loot wasnt that fun? Again hell no. Remember when u had to farm dungeons for gear that had resist on it and it took u 10 hrs to get 40 people together to raid wasnt that fun again no.
Look ive tried other mmos i just perfer wow. Lotro, ddo, warhammer. are 3 ive tried. I didnt play mmos before i started wow but i look at the ones out now that are supposedly so much better then wow and most of them jus tsuck.
Well, it's not a completely untrue post though I suppose one's mileage may vary as I only know of casual WoW players. However, I don't think they hate other mmo's nor do I think they have never made it to cap. But, for instance, most of the people I know who play video games play wow though none are in my circle of friends as very few of my friends play video games.
Of those I know who play wow, all are casual to moderate players and none of them have ever touched another mmo nor do they really know much about them. Actually, those are the people I know in "real life" not people I've met in games or on forums.
Of these "real life" people, I've had a "I've heard of it" when mentioning LOTRO and none ever heard of lineage 2. I mentioned those to them because those were favorite games.
Otherwise it seems they play facebook games or things like bejeweled or snood or bubba bazinga? Or some such thing?
Otherwise they all love wow and don't think that there is nothing worthwhile to do. They are however casual players who solely play wow.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
if the majority of WoW players dont like raiding, than what is keeping these players interested in WoW?
Endgame in WoW consist of nothing but Raiding. But only a small percentage of WoW players raid. Blizzard must be doing something, that is holding these "Non-raiders" interested.
What could it be?
Most people in WoW are casual gamers who don't necessarily like MMORPGs. They probably never even make it to level cap. There's nothing worth doing in WoW, even the raiding is lack luster. The only people that stick around are those who haven't played other better MMOs.
This is complete and uter garbage and just untrue. Just because u are a wow hater and a troll doesnt make wow players mmorpg haters.when did I say they hated MMOs? Most don't know of other MMOs, and have only heard of WoW because they saw Mr. T on tv. It just makes u a troll. I have 5 80s i raid i dont pvp much but i pefer pve. ok, well then why don't you play games with better/harder/more expansive raiding systems? I have played wow for 5 years alot of the people i know and am in guild with have played wow since beta.
They love mmos. No, they love WoW, and if you look at the original concept of MMORPGs, and put WoW against it, they don't match up. WoW is hardly a real MMORPG. Some of them started in eq and ultima others in diffrent mmos. They love mmos and they play wow and enjoy it. Just because u dont like wow doesnt make those that do mmorpg haters. the only hater here is u at least I know english, and I bet you any money if EQ and UO were still running how they used to be, they'd be playing those.
As for end game beign able to roll alts and enjoy doing so is part of endgame and what makes a game fun to play. to many people tend to post stuff like remember when u had to walk 3 hrs to find a quest wasnt that fun. Well no it wasnt fun Actually, walking 3 hours to find a quest NEVER occured, but traveling long distances for some important objective important to the player is the making of great memories. They were dangerous, filled with exciting situations and interesting places. You wonder why most people can't remember things in modern MMOs, its because they're so easy linear and devoid of any danger, they don't engage the user at a mental level, and so they don't remember. Redoing the same linear content is fun in WoW? does not compute.
Remember when u had to write down where u died and hope u got to your body before u lost your loot wasnt that fun? Yeah, I was actually afraid of dungeons when there was a danger in failing. And by the way, not all games had full loot corpse runs, stop looking at ONE game as if it defines the entire genre. You're hurting your argument more than helping it by showing you have no idea what you're talking about. Clearly you didn't play older MMORPGs. So in this situation, I have the necessary data to form and opinion, you do not. I played old MMOs and new "mmos" and can judge better than you. Again hell no. Remember when u had to farm dungeons for gear that had resist on it and it took u 10 hrs to get 40 people together to raid wasnt that fun again no Haha what? 10 hours to get people together? Raids weren't necessary things in most games, like they are in WoW. If we raided we raided for fun, and they were pre scheduled so there was little to no waiting at all. Farm dungeons for gear? Sounds like WoW. The only gear I ever farmed in dungeons was a set of rather useless helmets in the Catacombs, but they looked really cool and no one else on the server had any, so I gathered them up and showed them off. The stats were awful but it was my choice, something WoW lacks..
Look ive tried other mmos i just perfer wow. Lotro, ddo, warhammer So you tried a WoW clone, a free to play MMO that failed almost right out of the gate, and a bungled high budget WoW clone with mismanaged PvP? Congrats. Not my fault you live in an age of bad MMOs that are all almost as unoriginal as WoW. But at least WAR had public quests, and LotRO had the deed system. WoW has no new ideas. . are 3 ive tried. I didnt play mmos before i started wow but i look at the ones out now that are supposedly so much better then wow and most of them jus tsuck They almost all suck, including WoW, which is what most of us have been saying for years. .
if the majority of WoW players dont like raiding, than what is keeping these players interested in WoW?
Endgame in WoW consist of nothing but Raiding. But only a small percentage of WoW players raid. Blizzard must be doing something, that is holding these "Non-raiders" interested.
What could it be?
While I was playing (on hiatus atm till cata..most likely), I did a little of everything in wow. What really drew me in was the love for the class mechanics and pvp. I definitely raided and while raiding is interesting and can be fun, it's really not something I looked forward to unless it was to get geared so I could eventually have a better chance in pvp.
My true passion was leveling the classes and thinking "Oh snap, okay so I'm going to rape in pvp now because I kick ass at this!". WoW has really interesting class mechanics. Warriors' charge and intercept, mage's blink and frost nova, rogues stealth and kidney shot, shaman's earthshield and ghostwolf, druid's multiple forms and their jack of all trade abilities, priest power-word shield and penance (not to mention shadow form), pally's judgements and light, fast heals, the list goes on. It's just cool how all the classes are pretty unique from one another and offer this little niche of gameplay.
However, since I do not feel the need to contribute to group cohesion, I never really lasted long in the multiple raiding guilds I've been in. Out of the dozens and dozens of people I have created arena teams with, I have only had 4 good partners in total and they were during Seasons 2 and 3. So, I find myself never really completing my goals in-game because I tend to just start over with a new class on a regular basis, and that's pretty okay with me.
Er... in WoW? WoW is a PvE game, why would people play it for the PvP? It's years behind games that came out even in 2001, PvP wise, and since the entire game is balanced towards PvE, all PvP is thusly impacted, imbalanced, and a rather pointless exercise.
Er... in WoW? WoW is a PvE game, why would people play it for the PvP? It's years behind games that came out even in 2001, PvP wise, and since the entire game is balanced towards PvE, all PvP is thusly impacted, imbalanced, and a rather pointless exercise.
2001? Anarchy Online? Dark Age of Camelot?
Are you...you know...like kidding?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Here are a few things if you are really wondering what there is to do.
Achievements - I'd do every single achievement just to satisfy the completionist tendencies I have. A million years could be spent in this department even if you never did any group raids.
Alts - I'd have a few or more alts and experiment with the gameplay aspects of the classes. This could take an incredible amount of time. Depending on the player, it may take an incredible amount of patience as well.
PvP - I'd experiment in PvP with multiple classes in order to get a better understanding of what to expect in PvP and to try new gameplay styles. This would likely be my main outlet.
Run around Dalaran - At least 1 hour a week would be spent running around in circles in Dalaran. It's like pacing IRL when you have a lot on your mind.
Market whore - I'd be a bastard and see how high I could get my gold by manipulating the market and possibly even gather things that are expensive and sell them directly. Trying to get 100k gold might be entertaining for a while.
Quests - I'd try and do all of the quests while I chat away in guild chat. I suppose this is part of the achievements thing, but it's a part that takes a long time. Discovering all the little intricacies of the story can be fun - or at the very least, something to do.
Cyber - What I don't know won't hurt me.
Start a REAL twink - I might decide to create a character in one of the unofficial twink battlegroups. Why not? Sounds like fun to me and there is a community of players that are having fun without any kind of gear grind. True glory is likely found in those BGs. (At least until rated BGs. No idea how those will end up though).
Dungeons - These are only really fun at the beginning of an expansion. By the end, the gear just gets too monstrous to make them challenging anymore. The pitfalls of a gear based game.
World PvP - Go to a starter zone and kill all the quest NPCs with a few of your buds. Watch the tears roll and then wait for them to retaliate. This works most of the time. Sometimes it's more fun to get a massive raid going and roll over one of the main cities and see how long you can survive and to witness the mass bloodshed.
Buy/sell over trade chat - You can spend hours doing this. WTS port to Dalaran 10g. Enchanter LFW. WTS Big Purple Crafted Item of Doom 2000g. WTS Saronite 32g/stack.
Chat with guildies - Hours and hours of my time has been spent discussing the finer points of "beer before liquor makes you sicker" or some similar nonsense. If you have a solid guild or group of friends, then the rest of the game isn't really needed. It's time to talk about that study you read that says girls don't know how to do math only to be out-calculused by a mere female.
Invent a Chuck Norris joke and tell it in barrens chat - If you reuse an old one form the interwebs, prepare to be lambasted.
I'm sure there are more ways to waste your time in WoW. I like raiding and Arena personally. Soon I'll be doing rated BGs with a lock and I'm hoping their system is fun. But there are plenty of things besides raiding or doing competitive PvP if you choose to look the other way. And there are lots of nice people that are just looking to have a little fun with the game. There are tons of laid back guilds that just like to relax and play some WoW.
Er... in WoW? WoW is a PvE game, why would people play it for the PvP? It's years behind games that came out even in 2001, PvP wise, and since the entire game is balanced towards PvE, all PvP is thusly impacted, imbalanced, and a rather pointless exercise.
2001? Anarchy Online? Dark Age of Camelot?
Are you...you know...like kidding?
Dark Age of Camelot is still considered by most to be the undisputed king of PvP games. So, no, I'm not, why would I be?
It invented RvR and battlegrounds alike, and what's more, did them right. Also, you had destructible keeps, naval combat, siege weapons including catapults, trebuchets, balistas, boiling oil, several types of rams, siege towers, siege ladders, ect ect. So yeah, WoW kind of falls short. Not to mention WoW can't support that many people playing in uninstanced areas at once.
Er... in WoW? WoW is a PvE game, why would people play it for the PvP? It's years behind games that came out even in 2001, PvP wise, and since the entire game is balanced towards PvE, all PvP is thusly impacted, imbalanced, and a rather pointless exercise.
2001? Anarchy Online? Dark Age of Camelot?
Are you...you know...like kidding?
Dark Age of Camelot is still considered by most to be the undisputed king of PvP games. So, no, I'm not, why would I be?
It invented RvR and battlegrounds alike, and what's more, did them right. Also, you had destructible keeps, naval combat, siege weapons including catapults, trebuchets, balistas, boiling oil, several types of rams, siege towers, siege ladders, ect ect. So yeah, WoW kind of falls short. Not to mention WoW can't support that many people playing in uninstanced areas at once.
Here are a few things if you are really wondering what there is to do.
Achievements - I'd do every single achievement just to satisfy the completionist tendencies I have. A million years could be spent in this department even if you never did any group raids.
I changed servers and was not subscribed when they implemented Achievements - ie, my Achievements are broken; and I do not feel like fixing them.
Alts - I'd have a few or more alts and experiment with the gameplay aspects of the classes. This could take an incredible amount of time. Depending on the player, it may take an incredible amount of patience as well.
10 races. 10 classes.
30 race/class combinations for Alliance. 31 race/class combinations for Horde.
3 specializations for each class (though you could argue for the little variety left within this for more).
So you could have 61 characters - you could have 183 characters. To an extent, you could reduce this by utilizing the race/faction change paid services.
Course, how much difference are you going to experience between some of the races for certain classes? Yes, the mileage could vary on this - the tedium of leveling with little change could be painful. Shame the Class Change thing was an April Fool's...
PvP - I'd experiment in PvP with multiple classes in order to get a better understanding of what to expect in PvP and to try new gameplay styles. This would likely be my main outlet.
This tends to be it for many people.
Run around Dalaran - At least 1 hour a week would be spent running around in circles in Dalaran. It's like pacing IRL when you have a lot on your mind.
Ohhhhkay, lol. Course, at times I do this while waiting on something to pop - or I just pick random places to fly.
Market whore - I'd be a bastard and see how high I could get my gold by manipulating the market and possibly even gather things that are expensive and sell them directly. Trying to get 100k gold might be entertaining for a while.
The value of gold has kind of gone down over the years. Could not really see doing this in WoW. It is part of some of the most intense PvP in EVE though.
Quests - I'd try and do all of the quests while I chat away in guild chat. I suppose this is part of the achievements thing, but it's a part that takes a long time. Discovering all the little intricacies of the story can be fun - or at the very least, something to do.
To do all quests currently possible on a single character, eh? Even switching factions to hit up the other side. Aside from the exclusionary class quests, this would definitely be something the OCD completionist would be all over. I know I started doing this one with my Lock... but it is a major test of patience.
Cyber - What I don't know won't hurt me.
Nobody cybers anymore. That is what the private rooms in Vent and TS are for...lol.
Start a REAL twink - I might decide to create a character in one of the unofficial twink battlegroups. Why not? Sounds like fun to me and there is a community of players that are having fun without any kind of gear grind. True glory is likely found in those BGs. (At least until rated BGs. No idea how those will end up though).
Ugh, twinks. That is just my personal opinion on them - ugh. It is basically a gear grind, either scoring the gear with a third character or having a second account (friend) to go through bring them along. Usually it is rare for twinks to fight twinks though - you end up shooting fish in a barrel with a chaingun.
If the rated BGs stick with the guild thing, that could definitely prove interesting. It is basically an expanded Arena with the goals of the BG instead... could definitely be interesting there. Also, would definitely cut down on the annoying afkness of standard BGs.
Dungeons - These are only really fun at the beginning of an expansion. By the end, the gear just gets too monstrous to make them challenging anymore. The pitfalls of a gear based game.
Naked runs. Or runs with just non-magical common/vendor gear. See what up to what dungeon you can still run.
World PvP - Go to a starter zone and kill all the quest NPCs with a few of your buds. Watch the tears roll and then wait for them to retaliate. This works most of the time. Sometimes it's more fun to get a massive raid going and roll over one of the main cities and see how long you can survive and to witness the mass bloodshed.
It is amazing how many people just ignore this sort of thing these days. Still with all the guys there in Stormwind, would be an interesting challenge...
Buy/sell over trade chat - You can spend hours doing this. WTS port to Dalaran 10g. Enchanter LFW. WTS Big Purple Crafted Item of Doom 2000g. WTS Saronite 32g/stack.
I keep forgetting there is a /trade...lol.
Chat with guildies - Hours and hours of my time has been spent discussing the finer points of "beer before liquor makes you sicker" or some similar nonsense. If you have a solid guild or group of friends, then the rest of the game isn't really needed. It's time to talk about that study you read that says girls don't know how to do math only to be out-calculused by a mere female.
Hrmm, everybody knows the standard reply to this kind of suggestion.
Invent a Chuck Norris joke and tell it in barrens chat - If you reuse an old one form the interwebs, prepare to be lambasted.
Chuck Norris is enough of a joke...anything said is redundant.
I'm sure there are more ways to waste your time in WoW. I like raiding and Arena personally. Soon I'll be doing rated BGs with a lock and I'm hoping their system is fun. But there are plenty of things besides raiding or doing competitive PvP if you choose to look the other way. And there are lots of nice people that are just looking to have a little fun with the game. There are tons of laid back guilds that just like to relax and play some WoW.
Yep, different people play WoW for different reasons. It is funny how the Raiders and Arena folks do not get this...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Er... in WoW? WoW is a PvE game, why would people play it for the PvP? It's years behind games that came out even in 2001, PvP wise, and since the entire game is balanced towards PvE, all PvP is thusly impacted, imbalanced, and a rather pointless exercise.
2001? Anarchy Online? Dark Age of Camelot?
Are you...you know...like kidding?
Dark Age of Camelot is still considered by most to be the undisputed king of PvP games. So, no, I'm not, why would I be?
It invented RvR and battlegrounds alike, and what's more, did them right. Also, you had destructible keeps, naval combat, siege weapons including catapults, trebuchets, balistas, boiling oil, several types of rams, siege towers, siege ladders, ect ect. So yeah, WoW kind of falls short. Not to mention WoW can't support that many people playing in uninstanced areas at once.
Yes, DAoC comes in at #2 on that list... the odd thing I noticed was mainly in the comments in the discussion where people asked where Shadowbane and Darkfall were... (as well as the suprise that WAR was on there).
My list would be Shadowbane, EVE, WoW, UO (pre Trammel)...with er, no #5.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Er... in WoW? WoW is a PvE game, why would people play it for the PvP? It's years behind games that came out even in 2001, PvP wise, and since the entire game is balanced towards PvE, all PvP is thusly impacted, imbalanced, and a rather pointless exercise.
2001? Anarchy Online? Dark Age of Camelot?
Are you...you know...like kidding?
Dark Age of Camelot is still considered by most to be the undisputed king of PvP games. So, no, I'm not, why would I be?
It invented RvR and battlegrounds alike, and what's more, did them right. Also, you had destructible keeps, naval combat, siege weapons including catapults, trebuchets, balistas, boiling oil, several types of rams, siege towers, siege ladders, ect ect. So yeah, WoW kind of falls short. Not to mention WoW can't support that many people playing in uninstanced areas at once.
How many keybindings did you use in DAoC?
Depends entirely on the class you played. Some classes only had about 15-20 skills you had to use and keep track of, others more. The ones with less skills were often difficult to play, but done right, was a powerhouse. I once defended a keep against 10 attackers for an hour just by myself as an archer.
Er... in WoW? WoW is a PvE game, why would people play it for the PvP? It's years behind games that came out even in 2001, PvP wise, and since the entire game is balanced towards PvE, all PvP is thusly impacted, imbalanced, and a rather pointless exercise.
2001? Anarchy Online? Dark Age of Camelot?
Are you...you know...like kidding?
Dark Age of Camelot is still considered by most to be the undisputed king of PvP games. So, no, I'm not, why would I be?
It invented RvR and battlegrounds alike, and what's more, did them right. Also, you had destructible keeps, naval combat, siege weapons including catapults, trebuchets, balistas, boiling oil, several types of rams, siege towers, siege ladders, ect ect. So yeah, WoW kind of falls short. Not to mention WoW can't support that many people playing in uninstanced areas at once.
Yes, DAoC comes in at #2 on that list... the odd thing I noticed was mainly in the comments in the discussion where people asked where Shadowbane and Darkfall were... (as well as the suprise that WAR was on there).
My list would be Shadowbane, EVE, WoW, UO (pre Trammel)...with er, no #5.
Eve deserves it's spot. Shadowbane might get an honorable mention, or a number 5 spot simply because it had a nice concept and slightly expanded on some of the ideas DAoC came up with, but they were horribly implemented and between the buggy game and horrible controls, the game never really had a chance. WoW got universally laughed off that list. Warhammer, eh, mixed bag. Darkfall deserves a spot there.
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Oh yeah, totally. Regular mode raids are exactly intended for casuals. And I also agree that the vast majority of players never even enter a raid much less complete one. Most are just out having fun doing other things.
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Fun Factor is what makes or breaks a game, if its not fun just play something else.
Because the PVP and daily activity is entertaining enough. Not many people just play WOW to RAID with groups of annoying power mad teenagers. Most people are in it just for the fun factor. If they just wanted hard core raiding other games offer better challenges than WOW.
Which begs the question why has GC tried to alienate everyone but the progression raiders. Everything I hear about CAT is that raiders love it and everyone else hates it.
People that hate raiding probably play for a few reasons. Their friends play and would rather be elsewhere. Their wife or husband loves the game. Their kids play. They still enjoy world pvp or arenas despite the broken classes and talents. Or they have been playing the game so long they dont really know anything else. For many people wow was their first mmorpg and they probably dont know how to quit. Alot of people are easily pleased casuals that just want more vanity pets. They dont really care about raiding as long as they can do 5 mans from time to time.
PvP Battlegrounds. They are fun.
Exactly, which is why small group content rocks. You discover your friends in random low-tier small groups, then you'd take those friends into the higher tier progression and have some really enjoyable gaming experiences.
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Cannot remember the last time I did a 5 man with somebody actually from my server... cannot remember the last battleground where I was not the only or perhaps 1 of 2 people from my server.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Most people in WoW are casual gamers who don't necessarily like MMORPGs. They probably never even make it to level cap. There's nothing worth doing in WoW, even the raiding is lack luster. The only people that stick around are those who haven't played other better MMOs.
arena/bg/achievements/rolling alts
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Wow, you don't do 5 mans with friends or guildies? Well, I certainly do. I tank for randoms every once in a while and it makes me want to pull my hair out. Usually, we get some of us together so that we deal with randoms as little as possible. The only time we ever really use the finder is when we need one or two more to fill spots.
I also never PvP in BGs without at least a couple friends because it just isn't the same without them. It's amazing what the win percentage can be when you have a few of your PvP friends join up.
In my opinion, both of those activities are incredibly more enjoyable to do with friends on the server. Or even just some guildy acquaintances. MMORPGs would be a tough sell for me if I was soloing everything that was group oriented. To each their own, I suppose.
Not sure what about raiding turned me off. I used to raid in Everquest and did it religiously but it was never like it was in WoW Although it could take hours and hours but it was a different atmosphere. I recall the 2 day Fear camps and waiting for the mobs that drop wizard gear to appear . I think the difference was how we had to break Fear or getting into Temple of Veeshan and horror of horrors the getting out which was even harder in Veeshan since you could not gate out that might have tipped the scales.
I think WoW made it like a routine like a scheduled performance. There was no real difficulty aside from the occasional wipe from some mistakes unlike Everquest where mistakes meant many many deaths and corpse recovery. The gear was welcome but the actual breaking and keeping it and taking the place in shifts was what made the runs. It was not only for the loot.
I hardly raided in WoW but I still played it for the bgs and the levels and the quests but the journey became the interest. So I would not say I stayed in WoW for the raids because no game has ever topped raiding in Everquest.
I was the only person in the guild that bought LK way back when. Only person that has logged in from the guild since before the launch of LK. I know five or so other folks from another guild I was in (a couple from back in my HLDM days)... but they are raiders...so...
...have basically played by myself since before LK.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Well, it's not a completely untrue post though I suppose one's mileage may vary as I only know of casual WoW players. However, I don't think they hate other mmo's nor do I think they have never made it to cap. But, for instance, most of the people I know who play video games play wow though none are in my circle of friends as very few of my friends play video games.
Of those I know who play wow, all are casual to moderate players and none of them have ever touched another mmo nor do they really know much about them. Actually, those are the people I know in "real life" not people I've met in games or on forums.
Of these "real life" people, I've had a "I've heard of it" when mentioning LOTRO and none ever heard of lineage 2. I mentioned those to them because those were favorite games.
Otherwise it seems they play facebook games or things like bejeweled or snood or bubba bazinga? Or some such thing?
Otherwise they all love wow and don't think that there is nothing worthwhile to do. They are however casual players who solely play wow.
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While I was playing (on hiatus atm till cata..most likely), I did a little of everything in wow. What really drew me in was the love for the class mechanics and pvp. I definitely raided and while raiding is interesting and can be fun, it's really not something I looked forward to unless it was to get geared so I could eventually have a better chance in pvp.
My true passion was leveling the classes and thinking "Oh snap, okay so I'm going to rape in pvp now because I kick ass at this!". WoW has really interesting class mechanics. Warriors' charge and intercept, mage's blink and frost nova, rogues stealth and kidney shot, shaman's earthshield and ghostwolf, druid's multiple forms and their jack of all trade abilities, priest power-word shield and penance (not to mention shadow form), pally's judgements and light, fast heals, the list goes on. It's just cool how all the classes are pretty unique from one another and offer this little niche of gameplay.
However, since I do not feel the need to contribute to group cohesion, I never really lasted long in the multiple raiding guilds I've been in. Out of the dozens and dozens of people I have created arena teams with, I have only had 4 good partners in total and they were during Seasons 2 and 3. So, I find myself never really completing my goals in-game because I tend to just start over with a new class on a regular basis, and that's pretty okay with me.
PVP.
Er... in WoW? WoW is a PvE game, why would people play it for the PvP? It's years behind games that came out even in 2001, PvP wise, and since the entire game is balanced towards PvE, all PvP is thusly impacted, imbalanced, and a rather pointless exercise.
2001? Anarchy Online? Dark Age of Camelot?
Are you...you know...like kidding?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Achievements - I'd do every single achievement just to satisfy the completionist tendencies I have. A million years could be spent in this department even if you never did any group raids.
Alts - I'd have a few or more alts and experiment with the gameplay aspects of the classes. This could take an incredible amount of time. Depending on the player, it may take an incredible amount of patience as well.
PvP - I'd experiment in PvP with multiple classes in order to get a better understanding of what to expect in PvP and to try new gameplay styles. This would likely be my main outlet.
Run around Dalaran - At least 1 hour a week would be spent running around in circles in Dalaran. It's like pacing IRL when you have a lot on your mind.
Market whore - I'd be a bastard and see how high I could get my gold by manipulating the market and possibly even gather things that are expensive and sell them directly. Trying to get 100k gold might be entertaining for a while.
Quests - I'd try and do all of the quests while I chat away in guild chat. I suppose this is part of the achievements thing, but it's a part that takes a long time. Discovering all the little intricacies of the story can be fun - or at the very least, something to do.
Cyber - What I don't know won't hurt me.
Start a REAL twink - I might decide to create a character in one of the unofficial twink battlegroups. Why not? Sounds like fun to me and there is a community of players that are having fun without any kind of gear grind. True glory is likely found in those BGs. (At least until rated BGs. No idea how those will end up though).
Dungeons - These are only really fun at the beginning of an expansion. By the end, the gear just gets too monstrous to make them challenging anymore. The pitfalls of a gear based game.
World PvP - Go to a starter zone and kill all the quest NPCs with a few of your buds. Watch the tears roll and then wait for them to retaliate. This works most of the time. Sometimes it's more fun to get a massive raid going and roll over one of the main cities and see how long you can survive and to witness the mass bloodshed.
Buy/sell over trade chat - You can spend hours doing this. WTS port to Dalaran 10g. Enchanter LFW. WTS Big Purple Crafted Item of Doom 2000g. WTS Saronite 32g/stack.
Chat with guildies - Hours and hours of my time has been spent discussing the finer points of "beer before liquor makes you sicker" or some similar nonsense. If you have a solid guild or group of friends, then the rest of the game isn't really needed. It's time to talk about that study you read that says girls don't know how to do math only to be out-calculused by a mere female.
Invent a Chuck Norris joke and tell it in barrens chat - If you reuse an old one form the interwebs, prepare to be lambasted.
I'm sure there are more ways to waste your time in WoW. I like raiding and Arena personally. Soon I'll be doing rated BGs with a lock and I'm hoping their system is fun. But there are plenty of things besides raiding or doing competitive PvP if you choose to look the other way. And there are lots of nice people that are just looking to have a little fun with the game. There are tons of laid back guilds that just like to relax and play some WoW.
Dark Age of Camelot is still considered by most to be the undisputed king of PvP games. So, no, I'm not, why would I be?
It invented RvR and battlegrounds alike, and what's more, did them right. Also, you had destructible keeps, naval combat, siege weapons including catapults, trebuchets, balistas, boiling oil, several types of rams, siege towers, siege ladders, ect ect. So yeah, WoW kind of falls short. Not to mention WoW can't support that many people playing in uninstanced areas at once.
How many keybindings did you use in DAoC?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/3894/page/1
Yes, DAoC comes in at #2 on that list... the odd thing I noticed was mainly in the comments in the discussion where people asked where Shadowbane and Darkfall were... (as well as the suprise that WAR was on there).
My list would be Shadowbane, EVE, WoW, UO (pre Trammel)...with er, no #5.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Depends entirely on the class you played. Some classes only had about 15-20 skills you had to use and keep track of, others more. The ones with less skills were often difficult to play, but done right, was a powerhouse. I once defended a keep against 10 attackers for an hour just by myself as an archer.
Eve deserves it's spot. Shadowbane might get an honorable mention, or a number 5 spot simply because it had a nice concept and slightly expanded on some of the ideas DAoC came up with, but they were horribly implemented and between the buggy game and horrible controls, the game never really had a chance. WoW got universally laughed off that list. Warhammer, eh, mixed bag. Darkfall deserves a spot there.