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If people dont like Raiding, then why do they play wow, and what would be keeping them playing?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,387
if the majority of WoW players dont like raiding, than what is keeping these players interested in WoW?
Endgame in WoW consist of nothing but Raiding. But only a small percentage of WoW players raid. Blizzard must be doing something, that is holding these "Non-raiders" interested.
What could it be?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
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I'd say its combination of pvp,and the social aspect of just being where their friends are. The dungeon finder seems to keep a lot of peple busy as well. Then you have the masses who just play because "its what everyone else plays".
There is also PvP, group instances and daily quests.
But there are many people who start from scratch as soon as they maxed out a char instead of moving to raids.
I have nothing against raiding myself but I think there should be more kinds of endgames. AoCs guildcity is something that could be evolved into something really fun to mention one.
another is for guilds to be able to hold tournaments, a third is gambling in taverns.
Basicaly anything that is fun to do besides raiding, battlegrounds, arenas, dailys and group instances would make the endgame better.
personaly i'm one of those people that hates raiding, but i do like pvp.
when i used to play WoW i pretty much had to force myself to raid only to be able to get gear which i coudn't get with my low arena rating.
that's about it. i really liked to pvp in WoW and especially arena even though i sucked at it. i found raiding extremely boring but sometimes necessary in order to get some of the gear i needed. i have to admit that sometimes i just wanted to see a new dungeons, just to say i'v been there sort of thing. curiosity if you will, but raiding the same place ove and over has always been a chore for me.
As has been stated, PvP. Though because of the way WoW is setup, you basically end up with players using PvE gear instead of PvP gear.. and you cannot earn PvP weapons outside of Arena. So even with that PvP only lasts so long before gear becomes an issue again. It is cyclic in that sense - there are periods where you can enjoy it and periods where you cannot.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I quit wow a few years ago after doing full on raiding. Couldn't really get into the PVP as I am old school FPS player and it doesnt work for me.
What I would like to see is something more like exploration and high end crafting/gathering such as extensive player housing etc. in an MMO. Not to say it would have to be restricted to those things. Only having gear and maybe mounts is to little to work with IMO
Achievements and the way they are implemented: giving status through titles and mounts.
I find the Gladiator flying mount fantastic.
Going for these achievements in very specific playing sessions.
ATM: Battle Master. But also doing the last bits of Wintergrasp battles and become Master of Wintergrasp.
You can't play many alts when you go for achievements. In whatever direction (like tracing rare spawns in Northrend).
@Virusdancer: oh yes you can buy PvP weapons with honor since patch 4.01. As it also will be in the rated BG in Cata.
Learn to play the game as it unfolds with every new patch. Comment that should apply to the guy above too.
I haven't raided in a long time, this is what I do:
-Play BG's
-gather, craft and play AH
-Do non-raid, or low raid instances.
-Explore
-Collect Mounts, Companion Pets, tabards
- Arena's
-Duel
-Hunt Rares
-Try to complete Achievements
-Help lowbies
-try to get world pvp going LOL
-Listen a talk in Chat
-Level a new Character
-I want a Platformer MMO
I think the majority of people do raid in wow. They raid for one reason and one reason only (well most of them anyway), gear.
More dungeons + lengthy, tiered dungeon progression
More quests + lengthy, tiered solo progression
Tiered crafting recipes/mats from the above locations (or some alternative way of having crafting provide these progression items without breaking the other forms of progression.)
WOW already supports several important other elements (like PVP, socializing, and the AH), and those would naturally stay around. Heck even raiding can stay around; the important thing is simply to have enough progression along dungeon/quest content.
Raiding just waters down my gameplay too much. I don't mind taking on tough challenges, but consistently failing (unless I'm a nazi about which guild I join) due to others is not enjoyable.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Not everybody rush to endgame.
However, I find that being highly successful with a group of friends due to teamwork can be exceedingly enjoyable.
I'm surprised World of Warcraft doesn't have a housing system in place yet.
Most of the players are casual and don't even make it to end-game. The same is true in any of the big budget themepark titles, Joe Blow shouldn't care about end-game because he'll probably play the game for a total of 80 hours and never get there.
Most people who leave games due to "lack of end-game content" never even make it to end-level (why should I bother if when I get there, there's nothing to do?). Therefore, the end-game has importance far beyond the fraction of players that get there, having a strong end-game is part of the general package that many casual players care about it, even though realistically they will never get there or play it.
I raided in Vanilla and the start of BC. Little return for effort invested, now i just roll alts do battlegrounds, and pick up the occasional raid.
It provides me more than enough entertainment, although admittdley i get bored with it.
For every 'raider' that blows through content as quickly as possible to prepare for the endgame, there are 90 other people who may only play 5-10 hours per week. I'd be willing to bet that a large percentage of characters in their database are no where near cap. There is a huge amount of sub-80 content.
Hey Arnie, once again - I am playing the game. You really are a trip with your endless WoW love (and a myriad of comments that would severely violate the RoC)...
...even more a trip since you are wrong.
Wrathful weapons still require a rating starting at least 1700 (wands), 1800 others, up to 2200 for the top "PvP" weapons.
Cataclysm will be released on 12/07...there are no rated BGs currently. And when they do exist, they will be guild based if the information has not changed.
...so again, you cannot get PvP weapons outside of Arena. Even there, you need the rating in 3s or 5s for the 2200 weapons.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Well you can clear 100% of all content without raiding now. I know Blizzard has brain washed you into thinking a 10 man is a real raid but it isn't. We used to run Strat, scholo, Ubrs & Lbrs in 10 mans and no one dared to call them raids.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
PvP and small group content. From about fall of 07 to summer 08 that's what kept me at the end game and sent me to level up alts fairly often.
I hate raiding against pve content constantly. I'll do it once per ecounter for story reasons or to say I've done it, but I honestly think people who repeat the same experience really often are insane. I'm talking diagnose and filled prescription insane.
10 mans are raids. Dungeons are 5mans. End of story dont like the classification cause u are an elitist jerk so be it.
10 mans are raids as are 25. geting 40 people together is a pain in the arse and very hard to coordinate. Im so glad they got rid of 40 man raids.
I raid cause its fun. not for gear gear just makes it so i can raid the next tier
I level alts. I like to level alts and so do alot of wow players. pvp for some. Although if u are using pve gear for pvp no wonder u suck. ONly weapons have a rating on them now.
U can get pvp gear in a number of diffrent ways from running randoms and using badges to other things.
It is funny to think about that. Used to do MC, Ony, BWL, AQ40... heh, never had the gear for a spot in Naxx. With BC, well... pseudo 10 man "raids" and through SSC, but then I left the guild. While there had been room to get in on the 40 man things, with the 25 man it just did not happen... and even when they did, they just did not have the feel that they did in Vanilla.
I can understand Blizzard wanting to make the content more available - hence 10 man versions of their 25 man stuff, but lol - seriously, it comes off as more of a hard heroic than a light raid.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
You aren't a raider if you only do 10 man content, your a casual in a guild not good enough to run real raids. Same shit like in lotro with 12 mans The actual raids are 24 man. Back when wow started 10 mans were just dungeons we did. Now that it's the center of wows progression you pawn off 10 mans as raids to give your poor endgame progression validity? Whatever... Oh and can the insults dude. Speaking the truth doesn't make me an elitist jerk. My answer still stands people still play wow because they can clear all content non-raid.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
To me, MMORPGs are little more than a light social activity and time-killer. I simply don't have the time/patience/interest for "hardcore" activities like raiding, but I do enjoy crafting/socializing and playing with friends and family.
Well you can clear 100% of all content without raiding now. I know Blizzard has brain washed you into thinking a 10 man is a real raid but it isn't. We used to run Strat, scholo, Ubrs & Lbrs in 10 mans and no one dared to call them raids.It is funny to think about that. Used to do MC, Ony, BWL, AQ40... heh, never had the gear for a spot in Naxx. With BC, well... pseudo 10 man "raids" and through SSC, but then I left the guild. While there had been room to get in on the 40 man things, with the 25 man it just did not happen... and even when they did, they just did not have the feel that they did in Vanilla.
I can understand Blizzard wanting to make the content more available - hence 10 man versions of their 25 man stuff, but lol - seriously, it comes off as more of a hard heroic than a light raid.
Wows progression was flawed in TBC. Going from 40 mans at 60 to 10 mans at 70 fragmented a ton of guilds then when they got to 25 man content they struggled because that fragment was small and they required multiple 10 man teams to finally field 25 mans. Once they did get there the epic raid feeling was gone because the reality of it was 25 mans were no more epic than the welfare raids in vanilla (zg,aq20). Blizzard even acknowledged this by making all raids both 10 and 25 man but still they've lost the epic feel of raiding they had in vanilla.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Some 10 man content is actually harder than the 25-man version and when people fail, it tends to stand out a lot more. 20 pretty good people can carry 5 terribles, etc.
Either way, the organizational requirement for 10 is way easier. Getting 10 solid players is a lot easier than getting 25 solid players. Which is exactly why there are so many more 25 man raid players that are so terrible. Great 10-mans in hard mode can be some of the most enjoyable raids ever exactly because you understand that everyone you are playing with is excellent, and that you are there because you are, indeed, also excellent.
I think 25 mans tend to be a worse experience for me personally because the top 10 people are just constantly sighing over and over again at the obvious lack of attention or skill. Perhaps those bottom 15 feel like they're doing a great job and that they are master raiders, but in the end, the cream rises to the top and everyone else is just barely doing their job.
I remember those 40 man raids. And I remember even further back to like 75+ man raids in EQ. The more people you have, the more people get carried. And in my opinion, the less fun it is. Better to go in with people that you KNOW are solid instead of going in with people you barely accept as legitimate players.
Get the bottom 10 people from an average 25 man hard mode raid and they will fail at the 10 man hard mode version of that raid. Same goes for a 40 man raid or a 75+ man raid. In WoW, the players that should be celebrated the most for their accomplishments are the hard mode 10-man raiders, not the hard mode 25 man raiders - because you know that every single player from the 10-man hard mode is excellent, whereas every player from the 25 may not be excellent.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP