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What is it that WoW and AION have in common that appeals in the East, but makes them vastly differen
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
What is it that WoW and AION have in common that appeals in the East, but makes them vastly different in the west?
Aion and WoW, must have some trait in common that makes these two games so appealing in the east, since both of them are very popular over there in the east.
but on the other hand. they seem to be the opposite over in the west. WoW is the top MMORPG in the west, but Aion, is a after thought in the west. What could this different between the two, that is making the West populations view of WoW being more interesting than its Aion counterpart,
but at the same time, makes both Aion and WoW popular to their East populations?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
Disclaimer before you read this , this is about average this not apply to your case , just the OP ask whats the difference .
This has to do with culture differences , in the west people are more individualistic .
Look lets go a survey here , how many guild change , guild swapped for stupid reasons .
In the east they tend to be more group mentality then west .
Aion in the east is about some kind of fair play /honor acceptance .
West pftt fair play whats that ? honor i spit on that ...
Thats a total difference in mentality , why Aion works so well in the east , and not in the west .
Sorry here most mmo players play for themself first , and remember it aint fun for me , i aint playing it .
In the east its more about group effort , similar experience , best description is like Conventions .
Conventions almost everybody is so nice , like one big family .
You are part of a convention cause you have something in common , but thats Real Life .
Once the convention is over they turn on there pc , they just back to normal act like me meself and i .
WoW is made for me meself and I and carter to that the most of any other MMO i seen .
PvP PVE RP whatever you name it , its all gathered to me meself and I .
The problem is, WoW and Aion are BOTH popular in the East. Infact last I knew, most of WoW's subscribers are Asain (Not Westerners). Also the question is why are they both popular in the East and why Aion don't appeal in the West.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
wow is just good game, proven fact, no flamewars here..
aion is just good grinder , and assian seem into those, and it sports assian themed visuals, and untill tera and those other names i forgot , there arent many assian aaa titles for them to play
westenerns arent in grind, and more into endgame, where aion isnt that strong probably
That's because it doesn't go both ways. WoW doesn't require the Asian player base to play any differently than they would in Aion. But Aion requires western players to play in a more "common goal"oriented way, which has been shown time and again not to succeed in the west.
After level 20 in Aion it becomes forced pvp if I recall. I'm not sure western games like that.
What they both have in common is forced group endgames .
You cannot do anything without a big group of people !
Why is wow forced endgame accepted in the west , other forced endgame only 5-10% participate ?
I think you can answer that one for yourself
I think what makes them vastly different in the west is the art style. I'm not saying either art style is superior. Some westerners just really don't like the Anime style. This goes for both the look and the actual animation movement. Anime characters just move different then western do in terms of animation. This holds true for video games and cartoons. It's just a culture difference, thats pretty much it.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
It depends where in the east. In Korea, WoW is the afterthought and Aion is the behemoth right now.
I suppose it is because WoW just plays very well. I'm not sure how else to explain it. The other explaination is that both games have grind, but WoW's grind is a lot more disguised so that the western audience is not as aware of it. Aion's grind is pretty much in your face.
Also, in Asian countries, which are more collectivist like explained earlier, people have quite different meaning for team work. In the West, we have this more task/goal orientation along with the fact that everyone is expecting to be rewarded individually. Team are not extended families like they are in more collectivistic countries. This affects things like loyalty etc, also well explained earlier. In the West, teams are brought together for a common task and once that is finished loyalty is seldom expected or even required. People change projects often and seldom keep in touch with their old work mates (unless personal relationship beyond the work was formed).
From childhood, people in the West are thought to think as "I" and grow up in an environment where competition is promoted and material wealth is the goal. This get reflected in the games as well, if you have played with people from more collectivist countries you would know. In East, people are thought to think as "We". To them the success of invidual is a lot less important than the success of the group. In Japan, for example, there is a saying that "A nail that stands out, gets hammered down". Individuals who promote themselves, think they deserve more, etc. simply get isolated from the group. It is not socially acceptable behaviour.
WoW simple is more rewarding on individual level than Aion. I think this is the key difference. It is often hard to get people from the West to group together when goal and material gains or chance of getting them are not clear.
Asians just play group orientated games differently due to cultural behaviour. Just take a look at the concept of "face" and compare it to argumentative and often confrontational style of conversations/debate style of the West. But like with all cultural things, remember the 51% to 49% rule, which means that not everyone from that culture behaves similarly, but generally you can expect certain behaviour when moving to from individual to group level.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I personally think the "individualism" aspects of the West are extremely exaggerated. There is a reason why fads are common in the West and it has little to do with individualism.
I think us Westerners are more isolationist than individualist.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Depends on the countries, some European countries are more collectivistic, but in general it is not exaggrated. This is actually well researched subject. The US is world's most individualitic country.
Here is an example of comparison between the US and South Korea (check meaning for those stats from below). These stats show significant cultural differences.
And another for the US and China.
Geert Hofstede™ Cultural Dimensions
Power Distance Index (PDI) that is the extent to which the less powerful members of organizations and institutions (like the family) accept and expect that power is distributed unequally. This represents inequality (more versus less), but defined from below, not from above. It suggests that a society's level of inequality is endorsed by the followers as much as by the leaders. Power and inequality, of course, are extremely fundamental facts of any society and anybody with some international experience will be aware that 'all societies are unequal, but some are more unequal than others'.
Individualism (IDV) on the one side versus its opposite, collectivism, that is the degree to which individuals are inte-grated into groups. On the individualist side we find societies in which the ties between individuals are loose: everyone is expected to look after him/herself and his/her immediate family. On the collectivist side, we find societies in which people from birth onwards are integrated into strong, cohesive in-groups, often extended families (with uncles, aunts and grandparents) which continue protecting them in exchange for unquestioning loyalty. The word 'collectivism' in this sense has no political meaning: it refers to the group, not to the state. Again, the issue addressed by this dimension is an extremely fundamental one, regarding all societies in the world.
Masculinity (MAS) versus its opposite, femininity, refers to the distribution of roles between the genders which is another fundamental issue for any society to which a range of solutions are found. The IBM studies revealed that (a) women's values differ less among societies than men's values; (b) men's values from one country to another contain a dimension from very assertive and competitive and maximally different from women's values on the one side, to modest and caring and similar to women's values on the other. The assertive pole has been called 'masculine' and the modest, caring pole 'feminine'. The women in feminine countries have the same modest, caring values as the men; in the masculine countries they are somewhat assertive and competitive, but not as much as the men, so that these countries show a gap between men's values and women's values.
Uncertainty Avoidance Index (UAI) deals with a society's tolerance for uncertainty and ambiguity; it ultimately refers to man's search for Truth. It indicates to what extent a culture programs its members to feel either uncomfortable or comfortable in unstructured situations. Unstructured situations are novel, unknown, surprising, different from usual. Uncertainty avoiding cultures try to minimize the possibility of such situations by strict laws and rules, safety and security measures, and on the philosophical and religious level by a belief in absolute Truth; 'there can only be one Truth and we have it'. People in uncertainty avoiding countries are also more emotional, and motivated by inner nervous energy. The opposite type, uncertainty accepting cultures, are more tolerant of opinions different from what they are used to; they try to have as few rules as possible, and on the philosophical and religious level they are relativist and allow many currents to flow side by side. People within these cultures are more phlegmatic and contemplative, and not expected by their environment to express emotions.
Long-Term Orientation (LTO) versus short-term orientation: this fifth dimension was found in a study among students in 23 countries around the world, using a questionnaire designed by Chinese scholars It can be said to deal with Virtue regardless of Truth. Values associated with Long Term Orientation are thrift and perseverance; values associated with Short Term Orientation are respect for tradition, fulfilling social obligations, and protecting one's 'face'. Both the positively and the negatively rated values of this dimension are found in the teachings of Confucius, the most influential Chinese philosopher who lived around 500 B.C.; however, the dimension also applies to countries without a Confucian heritage.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
+1 to the OP poster for the ongoing stream of funny WoW related topics (that strangely enough always seem to be indirectly about how awesome WoW is without triggering the trollbait alert, kudos)
AFAIK the major part of Asian WoW subscribers is in China, with 5+ million subs. It doesn't make it China's top MMORPG, I understand there are some others that have even more subs there.
Aion is I think the current top MMORPG in Korea, it's really big there, and the major part of Aion subs is situated there.
The problems that Aion had in the West was mostly the grind that was very present after L20 and that burnt people out, and secondly the endgame content and the typically sugary Asian visual style that doesn't go well in the West (chicks dug it, guys not so much)
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Well for what its worth. I have played both games. Enjoyed each of them on their own merits. However as a Westerner if I were to choose which one I prefer it would be Aion. Not trolling just stating my opinion. The reasons why?.. One I think the character models are way better. Graphically world wise it is also superior even though similiar in many ways. Game play is also similiar. However I prefer games that promote grouping.
Aion does this well. Sure in WOW you might get in a few instances while leveling up. In the earlier days of WOW this was more common. THe ability to solo your way up has ruined the game. I still think I would be playing WAR though if they had done a better job on mixing the PVE with the RVR/PVP...
No. Its a good game to some, while many like it there are many that don't. A game being good is never a fact, its all based on opinions.
An article to consider in regard to WoW Asia: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24657
Aion follows a similar payment method in Asia.
Tada...
...different payment methods in the West.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Aion's art style is probably just one of many cultural bits that Aion has which gives it an edge in an eastern audience. Asian players definitely have much less desire to play monstrous/ugly characters compared with the western audience (and it's a mystery to me the factors that make monsters more acceptable to a western audience than east.)
WOW probably has the advantage (in both audiences) in terms of gameplay.
I think I'd probably prefer Aion's art style, if it played with the same gameplay as WOW.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
There are only 4 MMORPG which use subscription model in the East. Lineage/Lineage2, Wow, and Aion.
And the impact of Lineage is huge in the East. It's like the UO/EQ in the East, with the exception it's still growing after 12 years.
I honeastly don't see Aion being that big now, consider all the hacks, people just give up faith. I doubt Aion will make nearly as much as Lineage for Ncsoft this year. There's a discussion on why lineage don't have speed hacks but Aion do in the Chinese forum. And people attribute to the engine.
The main reason is that after level 35+ Aion became a fairly boring grind to level.
WoW did not and does not make the leveling curve have a large or sudden increase in boringness. You may take more time as you level in WoW as you go up and you may get bored, but its always enough time between levels that you get some kind of bread crumb before you get sick of it.
Aion you had to power through levels 25-45 and many westeners got sick of it and left. This means Aion did not reach the "in thing" critical mass of people flocking it. It just had a the in and out novelty thing going.
Asians are willing and able to power through Aion. Its paritally cultural and parital because there are so many games around there where is accepted and much worse than Aion. But westeners, by and large, will no longer do this for a game. And the games that did this like EQ always had a very bad cultural reputation with very negative connotations of being a nerd with no life if you played it.
Because the MMORPG market in the east is a lot bigger. There is room for multiple huge games.
It's not that people in west don't like Aion, it's that they don't seem to like anything that's not WoW.
Surprise: Aion is not that big.
Facts: read the financial reports of NCSoft : L1 + L2 are bigger than Aion in revenue.
50% of Aion's market lays in Korea.
It is a Korean company.
Only ... 5% of Aion's revenue comes from China.
So in the end; it is a Korean success, not so much an Asian success.
So even in China Aion is very small compared to WOW.
That's because MMORPGs are a lot cheaper to play in China. WoW also makes very little in China compared to the west, even though the player base is probably slightly bigger in China.
Also, Lineage 1 and Lineagse 2 both have around a milion subscribers each.
I played both Aion (from release to about 4 months in) and played WoW at the end of TBC just before Wrath, and after Aion during Wrath for several months. In WoW, I got to level 70 within 2 months and began to work for gear, then the patch for Wrath came and my class changed. I left disguested at the homogenisation that appeared to be the new direction. After a year of wandering, I came to Aion, and played it. Within 2 months I was level 50 and having fun.
Of the two experiences, I enjoyed Aion very much more than I did WoW. My enjoyment values would be, Aion 9/10, WoW 5/10, but most of that for Aion would be the people I played with, and WoW, the community that I tolerated. In Aion I fell into a good legion of fun and encouraging people, in WoW, I havent found many people I would enjoy being around for extended periods of time, and resorting to PuG's makes WoW the single most depressing experience one can endure.
Gameplay wise, I prefer Aion, the difficulty curve of the dungeons that requires CC and punishes failure by loss of exp makes for a more commited group and spatially aware. A mistake in Aion can cost very dearly not just in currency, but in time lost from the experience loss on death. Constant communication, the ability to not just mark, but also bind keys to select those marked mobs/players, and reliance on CC and assists made for a much more enjoyable experience for me. In contrast, WoW's mechanics, or rather, in wrath, its devolution into AoE retardo mode, LFD destroying any last remaining semblence of Server community and promoting the Game lobby theme, increasing homogenisation of roles into the very basic of the Holy trinity (Yes, im still very sore about losing my Shadow Priests Utility as mana battery and being delegated to simply DPS, even if I would top the charts in DPS, im still really sore about it)
If given the same Guild/Legion in both games, I would choose Aion of the two. The mechanics of dungeoning, group synergy, focused roles (Yes irony of me complaining about Holy trinity in WoW vs the rigid class roles in Aion, but if you want a Tank, you get a Templar, or a very geared Glad, not a Holy/Ret Pally with some tanking gear that he bought with badges, but hasnt tanked since BC, a Templar will know all his abilities becuase thats all he has known) The focus on PvP is also a nice attraction to me, being of the minority of players who enjoy world PvP with all its randomness and unpredictability vs Instanced sanitized homogenised Battlegrounds of random nameless faces you will likely never meet again because they exist on a parallel universe (Battlegroup server)
I would also like to add to the sentiment that a western audience is very self oriented. Its not, what is good for the group is good for the individual, its, Whats in it for me, and how can I get the best for me.
It's an interesting (and possibly a lucrative answer) to the OP question, I'm no fan of either MMO so cannot contribute but I'd prefer to play an MMO with Western people more than Eastern, only because this is what I am from, in fact there are some very interesting players everywhere in the world, but that origins consideration I think is probably reflected a lot in players' tastes of MMOs and with China more so than other countries I'd hazard a guess, is big factor to why a lot of chinese might play certain MMOs?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I think if you're doing an analysis like this you also have to take into consideration that tastes within Asia vary widely, and it appears that what's really hot in Korea isn't necessarily as hot in Japan or China. (and for some reason, these games have almost no appeal in India, not sure why)
Figuring out what makes people like/buy a product is a career that many spend their lives in and like they always say, there's no accounting for taste sometimes.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Think India's problem is that the infrastructure is not there. India’s average internet speed is just at 256 kbps. http://www.moneymint.in/telecom/high-speed-internet-infrastructure-soon-in-india-bsnl-sheds-a-new-entity-for-internet-infra