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How does Blizzard Copy Cat so well, yet other Developers Copy Cat so badly?

245

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  • PapamacPapamac Member UncommonPosts: 162

    Originally posted by Razperil

    Originally posted by Rzep

    I think Blizzards track record says all you need to know. Simply they are good devs that care about the stuff they release.

     You are a true Wowwer. Blizzards devs have no idea on what they are even doing. The only concept they can create are taken from others. I hardly think that's admirable or even worthy or any grand status. I'm sure you're well known to their very own paste this and paste that theory. Afterall, they have become the Kings of it.

     For a group of people who "have no idea what they are even doing", they seem to be doing what they don't know they're doing very, very well.

     

    As another poster said, the main difference between Blizzard and its competitors is that Blizzard's products are (comparitively) rock-solid and polished at release.  There hasn't been another AAA MMORPG released in the last 7 years that comes close to WoW in that department.  WoW certainly has its flaws, but most of those flaws are based on perception and personal taste, not "fact".

     

    Blizzard knows that they can't please everyone, so they try to please the majority.  As usual, this leaves the minority feeling left out and abandoned.  The problem is that Blizzard understands that they're going to make a lot more money by appealing to "the masses" than they would by trying to appeal to "niche" groups.

     

    It's like opening a shoe store and deciding that you're only going to sell size 12eee.  You can stock every different style of shoe in that size, and you'll probably make very loyal customers of the people that wear 12eee.  Unfortunately, you'll be missing out on a lot of sales because you've limited your selection to just that size.  A successful shoe store will understand that it can't be all things to all people, and will stock the most popular styles for the most common sizes.  Sure, they may not have a size or style that's right for you, but there are specialty stores that will cater to your needs if you can't find it there.

     

    It's business.  Blizzard knows it can't be all things to all people, so it chooses a route that (it believes) will appeal to the widest range of players.  So far, it's worked out quite well for them.  Given the fact that other development companies have had 7+ years to watch and learn from Blizzard, there should be no excuses for the "steaming piles of shit" that we've seen released recently.  I can only conclude that Blizzard's competitors simply aren't smart enough (or motivated enough) to learn from their own mistakes.

     

    Or, in the case of Square Enix, from their successes.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Originally posted by Razperil

     Blizzards devs have no idea on what they are even doing.

    Lol...

    Simply amazing.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • bansanbansan Member Posts: 367

    Blizzard copies features.  They shift through features that are fun and addictive, and add them to their game in a way keeps their players playing, whether they like it or not.

    The poor game companies try to copy Blizzard's success.  There's a difference.  They are only looking at the money, and the game is an afterthought copy.

    You'll also notice Blizzard paces itself.  After they released Warcraft II, Diablo, Starcraft, they didn't immediately rush to releases the next in the series.  I know, I asked back in the day.

    Then 10 years later, they copy their own game, spiff it up a little, and make millions, ala Starcraft.

  • travdotytravdoty Member UncommonPosts: 274

    Originally posted by Rzep

    I think Blizzards track record says all you need to know. Simply they are good devs that care about the stuff they release.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

  • PapamacPapamac Member UncommonPosts: 162

    Originally posted by travdoty

    Originally posted by Rzep

    I think Blizzards track record says all you need to know. Simply they are good devs that care about the stuff they release.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

     You make a good point.  Can you expand on it?

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    This thread is rather amazing.  The levels some will go to in order to bash the company or defend it is priceless.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • SgtFrogSgtFrog Member Posts: 5,001

    Budget and Talent, Blizzard staff are talanted they just need to use their talent in making something new rather than makeing copies.

    image
    March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon

  • ShazkneeShazknee Member Posts: 81

    WoW had an amazing Dev team to create the game, alot of them are gone now, and imo it shows, luckily the original team made such a good game, that they really need to eff it up bigtime to ruin it.

     

    The game offers nothing to players who started at launch, they havent added anything really new to the game, just altered and changed slightly.

     

    Even cata shows it, they seem to realise that they're loosing the original players, and therefore reverts the game , focusing on newcomers and old bosses and the old world, they could have used their time on updating the game, but they chose to make a copy of vanilla.

     

    I think that WoW will have a large crowd for many years to come, but I don't see people beeing as dedicated to it for a long timespan, as players are to Eve f.ex. In wow you basicly do what you did 2 months after launch, and they dont' seem to wanna mess with that, where player housing and guild keeps would have been a nice addition to a game that seems to be lacking innovation.

  • PapamacPapamac Member UncommonPosts: 162

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    This thread is rather amazing.  The levels some will go to in order to bash the company or defend it is priceless.

     A wise man once said, "Opinions are like rectums; everybody has one, and they all stink."

     

    Most people are passionate about their interests.  The people who frequent MMORPG.com tend to be passionate about computer gaming in general, and MMORPGs in particular.  I have no love for any, single developer or MMO.  I may be an avid gamer, but I wouldn't place myself in the "passionate" category.

     

    But when I see comments that are clearly expressing an opinion based on personal observation and preference, with no room for acceptance of an opposing or alternative view, it makes me a sad panda.

     

    Most pandas bite, when provoked.  ;)

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Originally posted by Papamac

     A wise man once said, "Opinions are like rectums; everybody has one, and they all stink."

     

    Most people are passionate about their interests.  The people who frequent MMORPG.com tend to be passionate about computer gaming in general, and MMORPGs in particular.  I have no love for any, single developer or MMO.  I may be an avid gamer, but I wouldn't place myself in the "passionate" category.

     

    But when I see comments that are clearly expressing an opinion based on personal observation and preference, with no room for acceptance of an opposing or alternative view, it makes me a sad panda.

     

    Most pandas bite, when provoked.  ;)

     I think most here are aware of this.  To me, it is just amazing the level some will go to when it comes to this company and generally this game.  Nothing new for sure but still amazes and amuses me even though this argument has literally at this point been going on for years now.

    Which, within itself is rather impressive.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230

    Originally posted by Loke666

    The features the other games usually are using is as fine as Blizzard, it is not a matter of copying but of Coding.

    Blizzard and Arenanet are the only ones with really good programmers, well, Bioware have some people that is pretty good too even if B & A have better.

    Vanguard is in many ways a brilliant game but the reason no one plays it s bad coding. Same goes for many of the MMOs.

    Some other games made the first half of the game fun but forgot the second half, like WAR. But they also suffer from bad coding.

    There is no possible way to make a best seller game with bad coding. Look on all huge games in history (Eq was never huge) like Half life, Diablo, Doom, or whatever. They all have good coding. So many games have failed because of that.

    There are also other reasons of course but this is the main reason that SOE, Turbine, Funcom and similar companies never will get a game like Wow.

    I know what you mean and I agree but I wouldn't place blame on the poor coder. More often the software design is bad. Coding errors are very cheap to fix (once they're found) in comparison to errors in the design. On average only 30% of the time/resources are spent on programming. Rest are design, testing, etc.

    But there are errors in game design aswell. Mass Effect's resource gathering would be one example where something decent (or bad) in the original went completely wrong in the sequel. Everyone makes mistakes.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    Originally posted by snappydoo

    Originally posted by Leucrotta


    Originally posted by vanu

    Blizzard are one of the best developers out there with such amazing talent, get over it.

    Copy pasting dusnt take talent, smart yes but talent no

    Yet 99% of the developers can't get it right? Can you ? Is your definition of talent = coming up wiht something new?

    talent - natural aptitude or skill in something. So Blizzard have a natural aptitude and skill in compiling good ideas and polishing them and actually making them fun. So they have talent.

    Yes, this nails it.

    The game industry produces knowledge of how to make good games.

    New companies can either ignore or use that knowledge.  Blizzard uses it -- and look at their success.


    • Would you criticize an artist for using shading or perspective?

    • Would you criticize someone who didn't invent the car or airplane for using those tools to achieve their goals?

    Over the years it's amused me more and more how crucial it is that new things build upon existing knowledge -- and yet in gaming there's so much obsession over innovation.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • RzepRzep Member UncommonPosts: 767

    Originally posted by Razperil

    Originally posted by Rzep

    I think Blizzards track record says all you need to know. Simply they are good devs that care about the stuff they release.

     You are a true Wowwer. Blizzards devs have no idea on what they are even doing. The only concept they can create are taken from others. I hardly think that's admirable or even worthy or any grand status. I'm sure you're well known to their very own paste this and paste that theory. Afterall, they have become the Kings of it.

    Oh of course I am thats why I have not touched WoW in months, but I guess you know me better than I know myself. Thank you for that insightful comment filled with pure truth and I am sure that you are a much better dev yourself.

  • WardropWardrop Member Posts: 462

    Yea blizz did  it right for the type of  content and mechanics they used.. They  cut all the cool things out of the usual mechanics offered at the time and indeed made it their own.



    Not to mention they had a following they built on over the years previously to the release of WOW that moved with blizz.



    But Blizz didn't slack over the years like EA did.. It use to be You'd see an EA game and you got excited cause you knew it was quality, now its just meh, really hit or miss. Blizz kept it clean and straight and hasn't let its fame take away from its quality and attention to detail. The games they make , one could almost guarantee a quality fun experience.





    When other developers copy what blizz did they  not only copy a dated mechanic system, but they make the user want to play WOW or what ever they copy. i mean really if it plays, looks and feels like WOW why not play WOW and be done with it, no worries.



    WOW for example has ended its genre. It cant get any better then it is plain and simple... don't fool yourself.. the markets saturated with 7 year old game mechanics, trying to pretend they are in the same league as WOW but they arnt nor will they be... WOW has closed the door to it.



    Now developers have to do some old school thinking and go to the drawing board and invent themselves and their titles and jump in with their boots on. The markets stale and everything trying to copy WOW is and has failed.





    Its time for developers to forge the road ahead with something new and exciting, and basically reinvent the genre. And really.. stand on their own two feet and not on the shoulders of another developer.





    When they do that they will find success maybe as big as WOWs success and we will be talking about them for years to come.



    This goes for any game really i mean why go for a copycat when you can have the real thing.  I mean seriously.

  • KryptyKrypty Member UncommonPosts: 454

    Originally posted by Rzep

    I think Blizzards track record says all you need to know. Simply they are good devs that care about the stuff they release.

    This. And Blizzard actually listens carefully to their fanbase and makes mayny decisions based on that. Yes - their decisions are based on appealing to the masses, but thats what any smart game company needs to do - unless it knows it cant compete with the big boys. When Blizzard releases a product, people have 100% confidence that it will be released in a truly FINISHED state. Whereas you get games like FFXIV that are released that are a solid year of patches/updates away from being even close to finished (if ever). Let's face it, Blizz would never release a game like FFXIV.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    At one time Blizzard had great developers working for them 10 years ago but that time is long past now and they have not done anything new since that time. Other developers are just simply not as good, lets be honest about that.

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  • Clubmaster22Clubmaster22 Member Posts: 279

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    At one time Blizzard had great developers working for them 10 years ago but that time is long past now and they have not done anything new since that time. Other developers are just simply not as good, lets be honest about that.

    That again is bull. Blzzard is pure professionalism and it shows. Sure individual developers turned their back on Blizzard. Take for example Bill Roper. This man was the driving force behind Diablo and when he quit Blizzard everyone thought that the "talent" had gone and everyone eagerly awaited what he'd do next. Well he founded Flagship and made Hellgate: London. Evere played that?

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    New companies can either ignore or use that knowledge.  Blizzard uses it -- and look at their success.


    • Would you criticize an artist for using shading or perspective?

    • Would you criticize someone who didn't invent the car or airplane for using those tools to achieve their goals?

    Over the years it's amused me more and more how crucial it is that new things build upon existing knowledge -- and yet in gaming there's so much obsession over innovation.

    I beg to differ.  Comparing a painting or whatever the hell you're trying to compare in your second example doesn't make a lot of sense to me because they are completely different venues with different expectations.

    If this was really true then Turbine's LotR would be right up there with WoW.  Which it isn't and in fact one of the biggest complaints you hear from those that don't care for the game is that it is too much of a WoW clone. 

    Which I personally don't agree with but you know that's one of their biggest snipes at the game.  Utilising gameplay techniques or some basic concepts is all fine and dandy but the moment a game tries to be too much like its predecessor is the moment you'll lose the bulk of players out there because they'll simply look at the game and ask themselves, "Why in the hell would I want to play this game when I can play 'Game X' that trumps it in content, gameplay, etc."

    You have to have something that will draw in players and keep them coming back for more. 

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by Leucrotta

    Originally posted by vanu

    Blizzard are one of the best developers out there with such amazing talent, get over it.

    Copy pasting dusnt take talent, smart yes but talent no

    I agree and to prove how right you are let us look at all the other mmos that just copied other games and achieved huge success.  Oh wait...

  • Malefic00xMalefic00x Member Posts: 18

    Pretty sure bliz just made a game with concepts from older games, that had a low computer requirements, due to graphics on the lower side of the spectrum. And also had alot more advertising on mediums that mattered like tv when it first came out. So it just got alot more people involved and alot more people saw what a mmo actually was.

    Yeah they didn't do anything innovative in game, however, they did market an mmo like it never had been before. even when it first released i seen commercials on tv for an mmo I thought all mmo's would follow blizzards marketing path. The game did have quite a few bugs at release and continues to have bugs now, but they are nothing major, its just people tend to freak out when they see any bugs anywhere.

    All in all Bliz did release a decently polished game with better marketing that set the genre foward in terms of people and didnt move the genre in terms of innovation. At least thats how I see it.

    Deimos

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Originally posted by Malefic00x

    Pretty sure bliz just made a game with concepts from older games, that had a low computer requirements, due to graphics on the lower side of the spectrum. And also had alot more advertising on mediums that mattered like tv when it first came out. So it just got alot more people involved and alot more people saw what a mmo actually was.

    Yeah they didn't do anything innovative in game, however, they did market an mmo like it never had been before. even when it first released i seen commercials on tv for an mmo I thought all mmo's would follow blizzards marketing path. The game did have quite a few bugs at release and continues to have bugs now, but they are nothing major, its just people tend to freak out when they see any bugs anywhere.

    All in all Bliz did release a decently polished game with better marketing that set the genre foward in terms of people and didnt move the genre in terms of innovation. At least thats how I see it.

     It was innovative to me though.  Granted the only mmo I had played at the time was EQ but the dungeons in WoW seemed a lot more involved  and developed than what I had experienced.  Plus, unlike EQ I didn't have to wait eons to gain mana on my spellcaster.  Plus other minor improvements such as the Auction House and how quests were handled in that game seemed a vast improvement to me.  Not to mention the skill trees used in the game that allowed you to develop your character a lot smoother  than one could trying to get AAs and how viable soloing was in that game compared to others.

    They didn't reinvent the wheel but when you consider how they combined elements from other mmos and put their own spin on it - really led to quite an experience compared to other games out back then.

    Not to mention they did an excellent job from a customer service standpoint compared to most other companies when they had their launch woes.  Not sure where a lot are getting the idea they had a smooth and bug free launch but when you have customer service in place and offer free play time out the wazoo it's amazing how forgiving your customer base can be.  One aspect that for as much as other companies supposedly try to copy WoW on they conveniently forget to copy that aspect.  If they even bother to have a customer service department in place at launch at all, which amazingly some haven't and suffered the consequences because of it.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    Originally posted by Clubmaster22

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    At one time Blizzard had great developers working for them 10 years ago but that time is long past now and they have not done anything new since that time. Other developers are just simply not as good, lets be honest about that.

    That again is bull. Blzzard is pure professionalism and it shows. Sure individual developers turned their back on Blizzard. Take for example Bill Roper. This man was the driving force behind Diablo and when he quit Blizzard everyone thought that the "talent" had gone and everyone eagerly awaited what he'd do next. Well he founded Flagship and made Hellgate: London. Evere played that?

     Very bad example bcause the reason why HGL failed was due to poor business decisions not the game itself. Not everyboy is cut out to be a CEO of a gaming studio. Unfortunately for him he learned the hard way.  If you look at Stacraft 2 you will only notice all they did was give the game an improved multiplayer and graphical appearance. It ook them over 6+ years to complete the project. They must of had only 5 people work onthe project or perhaps the quality is jut not there anymore.

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  • Clubmaster22Clubmaster22 Member Posts: 279

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Very bad example bcause the reason why HGL failed was due to poor business decisions not the game itself. Not everyboy is cut out to be a CEO of a gaming studio.

    I'm sorry but the game was garbage that's the only reason it went down. It had a good idea and some nifty equipmentdesign but the rest was amateurish at best and not even on the same planet as diablo 2.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

     Very bad example bcause the reason why HGL failed was due to poor business decisions not the game itself. Not everyboy is cut out to be a CEO of a gaming studio. Unfortunately for him he learned the hard way. 

    Granted I can't speak for others but I found that game to be rather awful. It wouldn't have mattered what business model they used far as I'm concerned.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • FreddyNoNoseFreddyNoNose Member Posts: 1,558

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by Clubmaster22

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    At one time Blizzard had great developers working for them 10 years ago but that time is long past now and they have not done anything new since that time. Other developers are just simply not as good, lets be honest about that.

    That again is bull. Blzzard is pure professionalism and it shows. Sure individual developers turned their back on Blizzard. Take for example Bill Roper. This man was the driving force behind Diablo and when he quit Blizzard everyone thought that the "talent" had gone and everyone eagerly awaited what he'd do next. Well he founded Flagship and made Hellgate: London. Evere played that?

     Very bad example bcause the reason why HGL failed was due to poor business decisions not the game itself. Not everyboy is cut out to be a CEO of a gaming studio. Unfortunately for him he learned the hard way.  If you look at Stacraft 2 you will only notice all they did was give the game an improved multiplayer and graphical appearance. It ook them over 6+ years to complete the project. They must of had only 5 people work onthe project or perhaps the quality is jut not there anymore.

     I didn't enjoy HGL and thought it was not offering enough different fun gameplay.  The market spoke and look what happend.   My take is that it was a pos game but if you think it was a jewel to behold then that is a fine opinion for you to have.

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