Let the speculators speculate. Let BioWare market their game. They certainly don't need a rabid fanboi out there bashing people for 'misinformation'. That's only damaging the 'cause'.
Like I said in another thread, I'm not sold on what BioWare has delivered as far as information of the game, but I can reserve my judgement for when they really start to market the game. The one thing that has me quite concerned about TOR at this moment is the rabid overzealous community and it's inability to handle alternative points of view.
Let the trollers troll. It's not your job to refute them. (and if they're being douchy about it, they just end up looking like douches)
What a horrible community indeed. "Anyone who likes the game leave all forums now, we don't need your input." That about sums up how this post reads.
"anyone who likes the game..."
have you played it? has the OP played it?
you see, some people here are too quick to resort to that argument when an opinion about the game feature's is negative, but then these same people are entitled to like the game because....?
I can answer. Nope never played it. I have stated multiple times that when I get my hands on this game, if it is not a fun game, then I will be the first to bash it. You would also know that I have repeatedly said that UNTIL I get my hands on it, I won't draw conclusions such as...this game is all about voiceovers and is a single player MMO when so much of the published content out their contradicts that. I can speculate as other do. For example, I know that I will be EXTREMELY disappointed if they don't improve the running animations. However, Bioware said they have a whole team working on it, so I give them the benefit of the doubt.
well thats reasonable.
and in the same manner you don't like the running animation, i don't like the fact that we have a space tunnel shooter or that being a smugger = having a wookiee companion or that playable races are limited to humanoids with different coloured skin.
but that doesn't make me a hater or someone with an agenda. i voice what i don't like - some will agree, some won't . if you like, you can too. try it, i won't tell anyone.
I actually agree with you. The "if the space is on rails" which it appears it will be and somebody is disappointed that it is, thats a legitimate opinion. In addition, regarding the races, that is also a legitimate opinion based on what is known. I am more referring to the far gone conclusions of others recycling statements such as, this is all about voiceovers and a single player MMO (just one example) when clearly this game is much more then that.
I actually agree with you. The "if the space is on rails" which it appears it will be and somebody is disappointed that it is, thats a legitimate opinion. In addition, regarding the races, that is also a legitimate opinion based on what is known. I am more referring to the far gone conclusions of others recycling statements such as, this is all about voiceovers and a single player MMO (just one example) when clearly this game is much more then that.
This is exactly why I took a stance against Bobs post. As not once have I seen someone tear into another over their opinions. Not once, we are all aware people will not always like or approve of the same things. The only time I've seen this type of behavior, is when a poster posts hyperbole, unfounded rumors, or simply makes an ass out of themselves over and over.
There's no bad community here, and this community is in no way, shape or form, a representation of TORs community, this is MMORPG.com, and we are all a part of it's community. I can't even say whether I'll actually be playing TOR at launch, or after as it all depends on what happens after launch with the game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Let the speculators speculate. Let BioWare market their game. They certainly don't need a rabid fanboi out there bashing people for 'misinformation'. That's only damaging the 'cause'.
Like I said in another thread, I'm not sold on what BioWare has delivered as far as information of the game, but I can reserve my judgement for when they really start to market the game. The one thing that has me quite concerned about TOR at this moment is the rabid overzealous community and it's inability to handle alternative points of view.
Let the trollers troll. It's not your job to refute them. (and if they're being douchy about it, they just end up looking like douches)
What a horrible community indeed. "Anyone who likes the game leave all forums now, we don't need your input." That about sums up how this post reads.
"anyone who likes the game..."
have you played it? has the OP played it?
you see, some people here are too quick to resort to that argument when an opinion about the game feature's is negative, but then these same people are entitled to like the game because....?
I can answer. Nope never played it. I have stated multiple times that when I get my hands on this game, if it is not a fun game, then I will be the first to bash it. You would also know that I have repeatedly said that UNTIL I get my hands on it, I won't draw conclusions such as...this game is all about voiceovers and is a single player MMO when so much of the published content out their contradicts that. I can speculate as other do. For example, I know that I will be EXTREMELY disappointed if they don't improve the running animations. However, Bioware said they have a whole team working on it, so I give them the benefit of the doubt.
well thats reasonable.
and in the same manner you don't like the running animation, i don't like the fact that we have a space tunnel shooter or that being a smugger = having a wookiee companion or that playable races are limited to humanoids with different coloured skin.
but that doesn't make me a hater or someone with an agenda. i voice what i don't like - some will agree, some won't . if you like, you can too. try it, i won't tell anyone.
I actually agree with you. The "if the space is on rails" which it appears it will be and somebody is disappointed that it is, thats a legitimate opinion. In addition, regarding the races, that is also a legitimate opinion based on what is known. I am more referring to the far gone conclusions of others recycling statements such as, this is all about voiceovers and a single player MMO (just one example) when clearly this game is much more then that.
your opinion is as good as any other.
it depends whether you see the glass half full, or half empty.
those that see it half empty have on their favour that bioware keeps insisting to talk about their now becoming "infamous" story that is being beaten to death instead of discussing what plans they've got to fill the gaps in the skeleton (read: gaps in between the quest lines).
it doesn't help when erickson goes on record to repeat himself time and again and go as far as saying that re-rolling a character is a form of end game content.
in addition, the system they've got in place appears to leave little room for much else (my opinion here.)
so you can't blame people for being suspicious.
on the other hand, this game appears to be a great investment and it would seem logical that they've got all spaces covered; and they've also hinted that some form of high end content would be available.
but that doesn't make me a hater or someone with an agenda. i voice what i don't like - some will agree, some won't . if you like, you can too. try it, i won't tell anyone.
Ah, but do you also voice what you like?
Some forum visitors are more prone to voice what they like than what they dislike, that doesn't make them a fanboi or someone with an agenda as well.
Some people voice their likes and dislikes equally, some voice more their likes and less their dislikes, some voice more their dislikes and less their likes, some people voice only their dislikes or only their likes. I'd say that the last 2 groups are the least balanced in viewpoint, and the most onesidedly biased. It's still their opinion which they're entitled to voice of course, there's little "right" or "wrong" when it comes to opinions. But the last two groups usually are most regarded as being on the extreme ends of ongoing debates: 'hater', 'troll' and 'fanboi' territory.
Originally posted by Troneas
those that see it half empty have on their favour that bioware keeps insisting to talk about their now becoming "infamous" story that is being beaten to death instead of discussing what plans they've got to fill the gaps in the skeleton (read: gaps in between the quest lines).
it doesn't help when erickson goes on record to repeat himself time and again and go as far as saying that re-rolling a character is a form of end game content.
Actually, they have talked about a LOT of other stuff besides story, only a glance at the large info compilation thread will show that. It's just that a number of critics refuse to acknowledge that other information and purely focus on their gripe, the story.
The problem that most SWTOR proponents here have isn't as much the fact that people are posting their doubts and criticisms, it is that some do so continually making uninformed statements resulting in wildly farfetched and unreasonable conclusions.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Let the speculators speculate. Let BioWare market their game. They certainly don't need a rabid fanboi out there bashing people for 'misinformation'. That's only damaging the 'cause'.
Like I said in another thread, I'm not sold on what BioWare has delivered as far as information of the game, but I can reserve my judgement for when they really start to market the game. The one thing that has me quite concerned about TOR at this moment is the rabid overzealous community and it's inability to handle alternative points of view.
Let the trollers troll. It's not your job to refute them. (and if they're being douchy about it, they just end up looking like douches)
What a horrible community indeed. "Anyone who likes the game leave all forums now, we don't need your input." That about sums up how this post reads.
"anyone who likes the game..."
have you played it? has the OP played it?
you see, some people here are too quick to resort to that argument when an opinion about the game feature's is negative, but then these same people are entitled to like the game because....?
Maybe I mis-spoke? I meant like, as in, what they see so far, and disagree when people write things they don't see as exactly true or as negatives. As in discussing opinions, it would appear that makes people like me ignorant fanbois who ruin the community.
not sure i understand your clarification.
bob didnt say it.
i think he was very clear and spot on on his post.
but that doesn't make me a hater or someone with an agenda. i voice what i don't like - some will agree, some won't . if you like, you can too. try it, i won't tell anyone.
Ah, but do you also voice what you like?
Some forum visitors are more prone to voice what they like than what they dislike, that doesn't make them a fanboi or someone with an agenda as well.
Some people voice their likes and dislikes equally, some voice more their likes and less their dislikes, some voice more their dislikes and less their likes, some people voice only their dislikes or only their likes. I'd say that the last 2 groups are the least balanced in viewpoint, and the most onesidedly biased. It's still their opinion which they're entitled to voice of course, there's little "right" or "wrong" when it comes to opinions. But the last two groups usually are most regarded as being on the extreme ends of ongoing debates: 'hater', 'troll' and 'fanboi' territory.
no, i don't voice what i like unless a particular feature i liked was being discussed or if someone asks me.
i would't come in here to say: OMG! I LOVE X, Y or Z.
why?
personally, because i see no point in doing so. the feature is there, i'm glad is there, so i wouldn't start a discussion on it. also, if i like it, there isn't much i can contribute with opinions since, well, i'm happy.
additionally, because at this point, in this game, not much information and detail has been released that interests me.
such as how the economy, guilds, end-game, crafting, socialisation, etc.
but i like what they've done to the player space ships and their interiors. looks promising.
i voice what i dont like because i'm not happy, and i try to provide alternative ideas or suggestions. i know that chances that my ideas or suggestions get implemented or changed are close to null, but what are forums for?
Personally I can understand people getting bent of of shape by smug know-it-all jackasses that present idle speculation as fact. And by the way this behavior is equally rampant in both the "hater" and "fanboi" factions.
That said I actually blame these afrementioned "know-it-all jackasses" less than I blame Bioware themselves for helping to conjour this *beep* storm of controversey. Maybe if Bioware would stop giving out information drop by drop like chinese water torture, and at least give people concrete answers to some of the more worrying questions, they could quell a lot of this hubris.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
those that see it half empty have on their favour that bioware keeps insisting to talk about their now becoming "infamous" story that is being beaten to death instead of discussing what plans they've got to fill the gaps in the skeleton (read: gaps in between the quest lines).
it doesn't help when erickson goes on record to repeat himself time and again and go as far as saying that re-rolling a character is a form of end game content.
Actually, they have talked about a LOT of other stuff besides story, only a glance at the large info compilation thread will show that. It's just that a number of critics refuse to acknowledge that other information and purely focus on their gripe, the story.
The problem that most SWTOR proponents here have isn't as much the fact that people are posting their doubts and criticisms, it is that some do so continually making uninformed statements resulting in wildly farfetched and unreasonable conclusions.
ya but not stuff that really impact a game. stuff that matters.
how will the economy work?
how will socialisation work?
how will guilds work?
how will end-game work?
how will housing work?
how will crafting work?
how will travel work?
how will instancing work?
how will factional wars work?
will there actually be any faction control / wars?
THAT is what people want to know.
Bioware has talked about
combat (and some of its mechanics).
classes
the story component.
some spaceships and space tunnel shooter.
the setting (planets).
some playable races.
...
?
so if you look at that list, you see that, aside from how combat and space combat works, the rest is all game components that do not address the question of what can people do or experience in said game when not questing (following the story).
so its obvious people are always going back to story, because, at this point, no one knows what else is there (combat being part of that "story" of course).
and for a game that will supposedly release in less than a year, thats quite weird.
those that see it half empty have on their favour that bioware keeps insisting to talk about their now becoming "infamous" story that is being beaten to death instead of discussing what plans they've got to fill the gaps in the skeleton (read: gaps in between the quest lines).
it doesn't help when erickson goes on record to repeat himself time and again and go as far as saying that re-rolling a character is a form of end game content.
Actually, they have talked about a LOT of other stuff besides story, only a glance at the large info compilation thread will show that. It's just that a number of critics refuse to acknowledge that other information and purely focus on their gripe, the story.
The problem that most SWTOR proponents here have isn't as much the fact that people are posting their doubts and criticisms, it is that some do so continually making uninformed statements resulting in wildly farfetched and unreasonable conclusions.
ya but not stuff that really impact a game. stuff that matters.
how will the economy work?
how will socialisation work?
how will guilds work?
how will end-game work?
how will housing work?
how will crafting work?
how will travel work?
how will instancing work?
how will factional wars work?
will there actually be any faction control / wars?
THAT is what people want to know.
Bioware has talked about
combat (and some of its mechanics).
classes
the story component.
some spaceships and space tunnel shooter.
planets.
some playable races.
...
?
so if you look at that list, you see that, aside from how combat and space combat works, the rest is all game components that do not address the question of what can people do or experience in said game when not questing (following the story).
so its obvious people are always going back to story, because, at this point, no one knows what else is there (combat being part of that "story" of course).
Not that I agree with the comparison to why people go back to story, but your list of what people want to know more about is exactly why I created a thread a couple of weeks ago as to why I'm not sure if I am a true fan boi when I don't care for most of what is posted each Friday regarding topics like the timeline. I want actual game play to answer those questions and its frustrating that we will have to wait until early next year to probably see any of it. If things weren't so boring in the MMO world as of late, I wouldn't even be on these forums lol. I'm playing console games right now...and I AM NOT buying The Force Unleased II which is getting horrible reviews.
This was just posted on the official forums gathered and posted within the last 24 hrs. Its meant to counter the agenda that certain others have here such as the 4Player thread that no one has ever heard of except the OP of that thread and some people who may live in Berlin.--->http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=218598
There is nothing to "counter". The OP for the 4player thread completely misinterpreted the information and translation. Pointing at a "good" rating which is in the 80%+ percentile range and trying to make that a bad thing doesn't actually work. The reviewer wasn't even bashing the game his words were twisted to mean more negativity than what is intended in his native language. With any balanced opinion there has to be likes and dislikes and that's all that the preview review was discussing. The rating he gave it still reflected his overall "very good" [sehr gut] score. More to the point, it wasn't the game he was reviewing, it was just the limited demo that was given to him and most of his remarks were directed at the state of the preview and not the game itself. His main complaint with the game itself was that he prefers lifelike shaders on his models instead of the artistic representation type.
It is pointless to attempt to use a "good" rating for a demo as something to fuel negative hype. In reality it is probably a very good sign that someone that found the demo extremely limiting would give it an overall good - very good score. Good = Good Good = = Bad - Even within the magical confines of MMORPG.com.
The dude who posted the 4players review is a notorious troll here who constantly bashes TOR because it iosn't want he wanted in the game (i.e. the second coming of SWG pre-NGE.) You can't trust anything that dude says, and now he's even ruining the reviews other people write to spread his negativity.
those that see it half empty have on their favour that bioware keeps insisting to talk about their now becoming "infamous" story that is being beaten to death instead of discussing what plans they've got to fill the gaps in the skeleton (read: gaps in between the quest lines).
it doesn't help when erickson goes on record to repeat himself time and again and go as far as saying that re-rolling a character is a form of end game content.
Actually, they have talked about a LOT of other stuff besides story, only a glance at the large info compilation thread will show that. It's just that a number of critics refuse to acknowledge that other information and purely focus on their gripe, the story.
The problem that most SWTOR proponents here have isn't as much the fact that people are posting their doubts and criticisms, it is that some do so continually making uninformed statements resulting in wildly farfetched and unreasonable conclusions.
ya but not stuff that really impact a game. stuff that matters.
how will the economy work?
how will socialisation work?
how will guilds work?
how will end-game work?
how will housing work?
how will crafting work?
how will travel work?
how will instancing work?
how will factional wars work?
will there actually be any faction control / wars?
THAT is what people want to know.
Bioware has talked about
combat (and some of its mechanics).
classes
the story component.
some spaceships and space tunnel shooter.
planets.
some playable races.
...
?
so if you look at that list, you see that, aside from how combat and space combat works, the rest is all game components that do not address the question of what can people do or experience in said game when not questing (following the story).
so its obvious people are always going back to story, because, at this point, no one knows what else is there (combat being part of that "story" of course).
Not that I agree with the comparison to why people go back to story, but your list of what people want to know more about is exactly why I created a thread a couple of weeks ago as to why I'm not sure if I am a true fan boi when I don't care for most of what is posted each Friday regarding topics like the timeline. I want actual game play to answer those questions and its frustrating that we will have to wait until early next year to probably see any of it. If things weren't so boring in the MMO world as of late, I wouldn't even be on these forums lol. I'm playing console games right now...and I AM NOT buying The Force Unleased II which is getting horrible reviews.
and then you have games like earthrise (which has not ETA for release or perhaps around the same time as swotor), than in a SINGLE box of fewer than 1000 words, tell you what you can expect from the game:
-A unique post-apocalyptic setting where the cloned remnants of mankind battle to survive and rebuild. Yet while humanity may have evolved, human nature remains as treacherous as ever…
-Highly customizable characters with over 100 different skills, abilities, and tactics. No artificial "class" restrictions get in the way of making the character you want.
-Fast-paced action combat featuring dynamic targeting, customizable power armor, huge mechanized exoskeletons, and hundreds of high-tech weapons.
-Sophisticated Player versus Player (PvP) mechanics that let you fight for the established order, join the revolutionary underground, or carve your own bloody path as an independent criminal.
-Territorial conquest and defense that matters. In your domain, you create your own rules – or let anarchy reign.
-Character progression that keeps you advancing in your career even when you’re not logged in.
-An advanced market-based economy with in-game supply and demand based on player activities. Deep crafting mechanics that let you design and manufacture unique items from customizable blueprints and raw resources.
it doesn't need to take fancy cinematographic videos to explain to your audience what your INTENTIONS and PLANS are for your game.
so naturally, and again, when all we listen to is story, well perhaps its time bioware ends this soapy and go out and say: "folks, story is all there is to it, like it, don't like it, thats what it is".
and thats fine.
but as long as they keep this mystery people will either think thats all there is to it, or that there is more to come.
i voice what i dont like because i'm not happy, and i try to provide alternative ideas or suggestions. i know that chances that my ideas or suggestions get implemented or changed are close to null, but what are forums for?
Good point, fair enough.
Originally posted by farginwar
SWTOR .. IS MADE .. FROM ........ PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
I think that was only Soylent Green cookies
Originally posted by Troneas
so if you look at that list, you see that, aside from how combat and space combat works, the rest is all game components that do not address the question of what can people do or experience in said game when not questing (following the story).
so its obvious people are always going back to story, because, at this point, no one knows what else is there (combat being part of that "story" of course).
and for a game that will supposedly release in less than a year, thats quite weird.
Well, there's more info revealed than only what's on the list you mentioned, at least enough for me to get an impression of what SW:TOR is besides story, reading the info compilation thread and the demo reviews.
But I agree, I don't like BW's PR & communication policy at all, in my opinion their PR & communication division deserves a good trashing, the way that information is released and what information isn't released (is it that hard to show off a dev diary that showcases large scale PvP scenes or wide, open worlds or to react quicker on forums to correct or refute rumors like the ANet people did with the "selling Dungeons" rumor?) is unnerving and annoying.
Unless they're using an intricate, masterful communication strategy that's beyond my ken. But so far, I'm not impressed with their PR & communication style.
Originally posted by Troneas
and then you have games like earthrise (which has not ETA for release or perhaps around the same time as swotor), than in a SINGLE box of fewer than 1000 words, tell you what you can expect from the game:
Not to be a cynic on purpose, but to play a devil's advocate, there have been quite some MMORPG companies that showed and promised an impressive feature list before the launch of their MMORPG, that in the end only proved to be partially true if at all.
There's the examples of a WAR, AoC, and I believe even SWG had quite a feature list promised before its launch of which only a part of it made it ingame.
Although I'd like more news regarding SW:TOR too, I actually like ANet's and BW's approach of only announcing stuff when they're absolutely sure it'll make it ingame, in contrast to the bold announcements that former MMO companies made only to be proven false. Not saying that this is the case for Earthrise, but past experiences should make people wary in any case.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
and then you have games like earthrise (which has not ETA for release or perhaps around the same time as swotor), than in a SINGLE box of fewer than 1000 words, tell you what you can expect from the game:
Not to be a cynic on purpose, but to play a devil's advocate, there have been quite some MMORPG companies that showed and promised an impressive feature list before the launch of their MMORPG, that in the end only proved to be partially true if at all.
There's the examples of a WAR, AoC, and I believe even SWG had quite a feature list promised before its launch of which only a part of it made it ingame.
Although I'd like more news regarding SW:TOR too, I actually like ANet's and BW's approach of only announcing stuff when they're absolutely sure it'll make it ingame, in contrast to the bold announcements that former MMO companies made only to be proven false. Not saying that this is the case for Earthrise, but past experiences should make people wary in any case.
granted.
but i was talking about plans and intentions, not the actual result.
This was just posted on the official forums gathered and posted within the last 24 hrs. It's meant to counter the agenda that certain others have here constantly recycling the same misinformation without any hands on game play experience--->http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=218598
I see, not only did they only collect the GOOD responses (which are easy to find when a game is pre beta, as all companies hop on the publicity wagon) but you label anyone who isn't interested in this game as a troll? Way to lose credibility.
This was just posted on the official forums gathered and posted within the last 24 hrs. It's meant to counter the agenda that certain others have here constantly recycling the same misinformation without any hands on game play experience--->http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=218598
I see, not only did they only collect the GOOD responses (which are easy to find when a game is pre beta, as all companies hop on the publicity wagon) but you label anyone who isn't interested in this game as a troll? Way to lose credibility.
First of all, your view point on my credibility means nothing to me. Second, I never said that anyone who isn't interested in this game is a troll. Please show me the link where I said that before posting lies about what I didn't say.
This was just posted on the official forums gathered and posted within the last 24 hrs. It's meant to counter the agenda that certain others have here constantly recycling the same misinformation without any hands on game play experience--->http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=218598
I see, not only did they only collect the GOOD responses (which are easy to find when a game is pre beta, as all companies hop on the publicity wagon) but you label anyone who isn't interested in this game as a troll? Way to lose credibility.
First of all, your view point on my credibility means nothing to me. Second, I never said that anyone who isn't interested in this game is a troll. Please show me the link where I said that before posting lies about what I didn't say.
You claimed that the people speaking badly of this game are Trolls or that they have an agenda to bring this game down. Just because their opinion is different, doesn't meant here's a conspiracy.
This was just posted on the official forums gathered and posted within the last 24 hrs. It's meant to counter the agenda that certain others have here constantly recycling the same misinformation without any hands on game play experience--->http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=218598
I see, not only did they only collect the GOOD responses (which are easy to find when a game is pre beta, as all companies hop on the publicity wagon) but you label anyone who isn't interested in this game as a troll? Way to lose credibility.
First of all, your view point on my credibility means nothing to me. Second, I never said that anyone who isn't interested in this game is a troll. Please show me the link where I said that before posting lies about what I didn't say.
You claimed that the people speaking badly of this game are Trolls or that they have an agenda to bring this game down. Just because their opinion is different, doesn't meant here's a conspiracy.
That is not what I said so if you are going to quote, try to quote accurately. What my focus was on those individuals who draw conclusions or repeatedly post misinformation without any game play experience or with what completely contradicts numerous articles, videos, or professional opinions that are out there. I gave specific examples as to what I was referring to. I also agree in this thread with someone who had legitimate gripes. I showed a typical forum response such as this:
"Thanks for having me. I promise not to turn rabid and come back here and bash RIFT.
I will however bash SWTOR, every, chance, I GET!"
which IMO, is typical of several people here. So before you post something I didn't say, try reading the context of the whole thread.
One thing that irritates me on these forums is the constant fighting here. I’ve been here a long time and the Star Wars games always seem to bring the most drama with them. Why are you all so threatened by bad feedback? it draws people in as well.
Thing is, not everyone is trolling just because they point out things they don't like about the game. This is like a repeat of the NGE Vs people who left SWG. If you can't drool over the game daily, or think this game can't fail, or there isn't one thing about it that might just not make it fun for you then it makes you a hater, instead of a realist independent thinker.
Not even the official forums are as bad as these forums are when it comes to that. People over there actually clown on the hostility found on these forums. At least there you can actually discuss issues you might have about an announcement; and find people who agree, here you are just flame bait for people who call themselves fans and think BioWare will never make a mistake. I'm not saying they will, but to think they will make the most perfect game ever is setting yourself up for disappointment
In my opinion, instead of attacking people you think might actually really be trolling, just ignore them. They aren’t going to convince anyone but their own group not to play TOR. Heck, most likely most of them will end up trying it even though they say they won’t. The only reason I would assume trolls get so much attention here, is people like conflicts. Bored at work much?
You claimed that the people speaking badly of this game are Trolls or that they have an agenda to bring this game down. Just because their opinion is different, doesn't meant here's a conspiracy.
I claim that everybody that either only see great or really bad things with a game they never tried either got an agenda or are not realistic.
I see, not only did they only collect the GOOD responses (which are easy to find when a game is pre beta, as all companies hop on the publicity wagon) but you label anyone who isn't interested in this game as a troll? Way to lose credibility.
It's just a link to research resources. If people aren't posting anything on the other side of the debate then there aren't any resources to link to. If you have some cool links then share because most of us here visiting this site like to read about MMo games.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
One thing that irritates me on these forums is the constant fighting here. I’ve been here a long time and the Star Wars games always seem to bring the most drama with them. Why are you all so threatened by bad feedback? it draws people in as well.
Thing is, not everyone is trolling just because they point out things they don't like about the game. This is like a repeat of the NGE Vs people who left SWG. If you can't drool over the game daily, or think this game can't fail, or there isn't one thing about it that might just not make it fun for you then it makes you a hater, instead of a realist independent thinker.
Not even the official forums are as bad as these forums are when it comes to that. People over there actually clown on the hostility found on these forums. At least there you can actually discuss issues you might have about an announcement; and find people who agree, here you are just flame bait for people who call themselves fans and think BioWare will never make a mistake. I'm not saying they will, but to think they will make the most perfect game ever is setting yourself up for disappointment
In my opinion, instead of attacking people you think might actually really be trolling, just ignore them. They aren’t going to convince anyone but their own group not to play TOR. Heck, most likely most of them will end up trying it even though they say they won’t. The only reason I would assume trolls get so much attention here, is people like conflicts. Bored at work much?
OK, I agree with the ignore comment, so I edited again the title and original content of my thread lol. I wonder if those who post ridiculous comments posting the opposite would ever do the same lol. Yes, I am bored lol.
Let the speculators speculate. Let BioWare market their game. They certainly don't need a rabid fanboi out there bashing people for 'misinformation'. That's only damaging the 'cause'.
Like I said in another thread, I'm not sold on what BioWare has delivered as far as information of the game, but I can reserve my judgement for when they really start to market the game. The one thing that has me quite concerned about TOR at this moment is the rabid overzealous community and it's inability to handle alternative points of view.
Let the trollers troll. It's not your job to refute them. (and if they're being douchy about it, they just end up looking like douches)
What a horrible community indeed. "Anyone who likes the game leave all forums now, we don't need your input." That about sums up how this post reads.
"anyone who likes the game..."
have you played it? has the OP played it?
you see, some people here are too quick to resort to that argument when an opinion about the game feature's is negative, but then these same people are entitled to like the game because....?
I can answer. Nope never played it. I have stated multiple times that when I get my hands on this game, if it is not a fun game, then I will be the first to bash it. You would also know that I have repeatedly said that UNTIL I get my hands on it, I won't draw conclusions such as...this game is all about voiceovers and is a single player MMO when so much of the published content out their contradicts that. I can speculate as other do. For example, I know that I will be EXTREMELY disappointed if they don't improve the running animations. However, Bioware said they have a whole team working on it, so I give them the benefit of the doubt.
well thats reasonable.
and in the same manner you don't like the running animation, i don't like the fact that we have a space tunnel shooter or that being a smugger = having a wookiee companion or that playable races are limited to humanoids with different coloured skin.
but that doesn't make me a hater or someone with an agenda. i voice what i don't like - some will agree, some won't . if you like, you can too. try it, i won't tell anyone.
I recall reading that you get to choose your companions, so you're not automatically going to have a wookie for a companion as a smuggler. I haven't read thoroughly on this, but I do get the impression that you will have the opportunity to invite a number of npc's to go with you. They'll be on your ship and you can choose any one of them as a companion as you go adventuring. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get. Whether that's true or not, they have stated clearly that you will have a choice as to who will be your companions.
Comments
I actually agree with you. The "if the space is on rails" which it appears it will be and somebody is disappointed that it is, thats a legitimate opinion. In addition, regarding the races, that is also a legitimate opinion based on what is known. I am more referring to the far gone conclusions of others recycling statements such as, this is all about voiceovers and a single player MMO (just one example) when clearly this game is much more then that.
There Is Always Hope!
Interesting title. Doesn't seem trollish or flame-baitish, at all.
This is exactly why I took a stance against Bobs post. As not once have I seen someone tear into another over their opinions. Not once, we are all aware people will not always like or approve of the same things. The only time I've seen this type of behavior, is when a poster posts hyperbole, unfounded rumors, or simply makes an ass out of themselves over and over.
There's no bad community here, and this community is in no way, shape or form, a representation of TORs community, this is MMORPG.com, and we are all a part of it's community. I can't even say whether I'll actually be playing TOR at launch, or after as it all depends on what happens after launch with the game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
your opinion is as good as any other.
it depends whether you see the glass half full, or half empty.
those that see it half empty have on their favour that bioware keeps insisting to talk about their now becoming "infamous" story that is being beaten to death instead of discussing what plans they've got to fill the gaps in the skeleton (read: gaps in between the quest lines).
it doesn't help when erickson goes on record to repeat himself time and again and go as far as saying that re-rolling a character is a form of end game content.
in addition, the system they've got in place appears to leave little room for much else (my opinion here.)
so you can't blame people for being suspicious.
on the other hand, this game appears to be a great investment and it would seem logical that they've got all spaces covered; and they've also hinted that some form of high end content would be available.
and to some, its bioware - the "god off gaming".
etc. etc.
so its anyone's guess and opinion at this point.
Ah, but do you also voice what you like?
Some forum visitors are more prone to voice what they like than what they dislike, that doesn't make them a fanboi or someone with an agenda as well.
Some people voice their likes and dislikes equally, some voice more their likes and less their dislikes, some voice more their dislikes and less their likes, some people voice only their dislikes or only their likes. I'd say that the last 2 groups are the least balanced in viewpoint, and the most onesidedly biased. It's still their opinion which they're entitled to voice of course, there's little "right" or "wrong" when it comes to opinions. But the last two groups usually are most regarded as being on the extreme ends of ongoing debates: 'hater', 'troll' and 'fanboi' territory.
Actually, they have talked about a LOT of other stuff besides story, only a glance at the large info compilation thread will show that. It's just that a number of critics refuse to acknowledge that other information and purely focus on their gripe, the story.
The problem that most SWTOR proponents here have isn't as much the fact that people are posting their doubts and criticisms, it is that some do so continually making uninformed statements resulting in wildly farfetched and unreasonable conclusions.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
not sure i understand your clarification.
bob didnt say it.
i think he was very clear and spot on on his post.
no, i don't voice what i like unless a particular feature i liked was being discussed or if someone asks me.
i would't come in here to say: OMG! I LOVE X, Y or Z.
why?
personally, because i see no point in doing so. the feature is there, i'm glad is there, so i wouldn't start a discussion on it. also, if i like it, there isn't much i can contribute with opinions since, well, i'm happy.
additionally, because at this point, in this game, not much information and detail has been released that interests me.
such as how the economy, guilds, end-game, crafting, socialisation, etc.
but i like what they've done to the player space ships and their interiors. looks promising.
i voice what i dont like because i'm not happy, and i try to provide alternative ideas or suggestions. i know that chances that my ideas or suggestions get implemented or changed are close to null, but what are forums for?
SWTOR .. IS MADE .. FROM ........ PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
Or not
Personally I can understand people getting bent of of shape by smug know-it-all jackasses that present idle speculation as fact. And by the way this behavior is equally rampant in both the "hater" and "fanboi" factions.
That said I actually blame these afrementioned "know-it-all jackasses" less than I blame Bioware themselves for helping to conjour this *beep* storm of controversey. Maybe if Bioware would stop giving out information drop by drop like chinese water torture, and at least give people concrete answers to some of the more worrying questions, they could quell a lot of this hubris.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
ya but not stuff that really impact a game. stuff that matters.
how will the economy work?
how will socialisation work?
how will guilds work?
how will end-game work?
how will housing work?
how will crafting work?
how will travel work?
how will instancing work?
how will factional wars work?
will there actually be any faction control / wars?
THAT is what people want to know.
Bioware has talked about
combat (and some of its mechanics).
classes
the story component.
some spaceships and space tunnel shooter.
the setting (planets).
some playable races.
...
?
so if you look at that list, you see that, aside from how combat and space combat works, the rest is all game components that do not address the question of what can people do or experience in said game when not questing (following the story).
so its obvious people are always going back to story, because, at this point, no one knows what else is there (combat being part of that "story" of course).
and for a game that will supposedly release in less than a year, thats quite weird.
Not that I agree with the comparison to why people go back to story, but your list of what people want to know more about is exactly why I created a thread a couple of weeks ago as to why I'm not sure if I am a true fan boi when I don't care for most of what is posted each Friday regarding topics like the timeline. I want actual game play to answer those questions and its frustrating that we will have to wait until early next year to probably see any of it. If things weren't so boring in the MMO world as of late, I wouldn't even be on these forums lol. I'm playing console games right now...and I AM NOT buying The Force Unleased II which is getting horrible reviews.
There Is Always Hope!
-edit answered in PM.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The dude who posted the 4players review is a notorious troll here who constantly bashes TOR because it iosn't want he wanted in the game (i.e. the second coming of SWG pre-NGE.) You can't trust anything that dude says, and now he's even ruining the reviews other people write to spread his negativity.
and then you have games like earthrise (which has not ETA for release or perhaps around the same time as swotor), than in a SINGLE box of fewer than 1000 words, tell you what you can expect from the game:
http://www.play-earthrise.com/index.php?action=showstatic&id=6
Key Features:
-A unique post-apocalyptic setting where the cloned remnants of mankind battle to survive and rebuild. Yet while humanity may have evolved, human nature remains as treacherous as ever…
-Highly customizable characters with over 100 different skills, abilities, and tactics. No artificial "class" restrictions get in the way of making the character you want.
-Fast-paced action combat featuring dynamic targeting, customizable power armor, huge mechanized exoskeletons, and hundreds of high-tech weapons.
-Sophisticated Player versus Player (PvP) mechanics that let you fight for the established order, join the revolutionary underground, or carve your own bloody path as an independent criminal.
-Territorial conquest and defense that matters. In your domain, you create your own rules – or let anarchy reign.
-Character progression that keeps you advancing in your career even when you’re not logged in.
-An advanced market-based economy with in-game supply and demand based on player activities. Deep crafting mechanics that let you design and manufacture unique items from customizable blueprints and raw resources.
it doesn't need to take fancy cinematographic videos to explain to your audience what your INTENTIONS and PLANS are for your game.
so naturally, and again, when all we listen to is story, well perhaps its time bioware ends this soapy and go out and say: "folks, story is all there is to it, like it, don't like it, thats what it is".
and thats fine.
but as long as they keep this mystery people will either think thats all there is to it, or that there is more to come.
Good point, fair enough.
I think that was only Soylent Green cookies
Well, there's more info revealed than only what's on the list you mentioned, at least enough for me to get an impression of what SW:TOR is besides story, reading the info compilation thread and the demo reviews.
But I agree, I don't like BW's PR & communication policy at all, in my opinion their PR & communication division deserves a good trashing, the way that information is released and what information isn't released (is it that hard to show off a dev diary that showcases large scale PvP scenes or wide, open worlds or to react quicker on forums to correct or refute rumors like the ANet people did with the "selling Dungeons" rumor?) is unnerving and annoying.
Unless they're using an intricate, masterful communication strategy that's beyond my ken. But so far, I'm not impressed with their PR & communication style.
Not to be a cynic on purpose, but to play a devil's advocate, there have been quite some MMORPG companies that showed and promised an impressive feature list before the launch of their MMORPG, that in the end only proved to be partially true if at all.
There's the examples of a WAR, AoC, and I believe even SWG had quite a feature list promised before its launch of which only a part of it made it ingame.
Although I'd like more news regarding SW:TOR too, I actually like ANet's and BW's approach of only announcing stuff when they're absolutely sure it'll make it ingame, in contrast to the bold announcements that former MMO companies made only to be proven false. Not saying that this is the case for Earthrise, but past experiences should make people wary in any case.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
granted.
but i was talking about plans and intentions, not the actual result.
I see, not only did they only collect the GOOD responses (which are easy to find when a game is pre beta, as all companies hop on the publicity wagon) but you label anyone who isn't interested in this game as a troll? Way to lose credibility.
First of all, your view point on my credibility means nothing to me. Second, I never said that anyone who isn't interested in this game is a troll. Please show me the link where I said that before posting lies about what I didn't say.
There Is Always Hope!
You claimed that the people speaking badly of this game are Trolls or that they have an agenda to bring this game down. Just because their opinion is different, doesn't meant here's a conspiracy.
That is not what I said so if you are going to quote, try to quote accurately. What my focus was on those individuals who draw conclusions or repeatedly post misinformation without any game play experience or with what completely contradicts numerous articles, videos, or professional opinions that are out there. I gave specific examples as to what I was referring to. I also agree in this thread with someone who had legitimate gripes. I showed a typical forum response such as this:
"Thanks for having me. I promise not to turn rabid and come back here and bash RIFT.
I will however bash SWTOR, every, chance, I GET!"
which IMO, is typical of several people here. So before you post something I didn't say, try reading the context of the whole thread.
There Is Always Hope!
One thing that irritates me on these forums is the constant fighting here. I’ve been here a long time and the Star Wars games always seem to bring the most drama with them. Why are you all so threatened by bad feedback? it draws people in as well.
Thing is, not everyone is trolling just because they point out things they don't like about the game. This is like a repeat of the NGE Vs people who left SWG. If you can't drool over the game daily, or think this game can't fail, or there isn't one thing about it that might just not make it fun for you then it makes you a hater, instead of a realist independent thinker.
Not even the official forums are as bad as these forums are when it comes to that. People over there actually clown on the hostility found on these forums. At least there you can actually discuss issues you might have about an announcement; and find people who agree, here you are just flame bait for people who call themselves fans and think BioWare will never make a mistake. I'm not saying they will, but to think they will make the most perfect game ever is setting yourself up for disappointment
In my opinion, instead of attacking people you think might actually really be trolling, just ignore them. They aren’t going to convince anyone but their own group not to play TOR. Heck, most likely most of them will end up trying it even though they say they won’t. The only reason I would assume trolls get so much attention here, is people like conflicts. Bored at work much?
I claim that everybody that either only see great or really bad things with a game they never tried either got an agenda or are not realistic.
There are both god and bad things with any game.
It's just a link to research resources. If people aren't posting anything on the other side of the debate then there aren't any resources to link to. If you have some cool links then share because most of us here visiting this site like to read about MMo games.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
OK, I agree with the ignore comment, so I edited again the title and original content of my thread lol. I wonder if those who post ridiculous comments posting the opposite would ever do the same lol. Yes, I am bored lol.
There Is Always Hope!
::deleted::
I recall reading that you get to choose your companions, so you're not automatically going to have a wookie for a companion as a smuggler. I haven't read thoroughly on this, but I do get the impression that you will have the opportunity to invite a number of npc's to go with you. They'll be on your ship and you can choose any one of them as a companion as you go adventuring. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get. Whether that's true or not, they have stated clearly that you will have a choice as to who will be your companions.