Sooo..wait, a vast financial conspiracy which has yakuzas aiming flying stars at the heads of hapless SE executives and making them release bad games (because they have to pay off their go debts, or something) makes more sense to the OP than the simple fact (as evidenced by beta) that SE thought they were making the most brilliant MMO evar, and didn't have to listen to the silly beta testers' opinions because what do we know, eh?
Riiiiight.
FFXIV was developed by a bunch of people who never played any MMOs outside of their own previous effort and arrogantly assumed that rather than having to change their offering based on the evolving MMO market since FFXI launched, they would release FFXIV, the world would swoon at its utter awesomeness and forget about such things as....errrr....hardware support for mouse, intuitive (and easily navigable) UI and all the rest of those things we've stupidly become accustomed to. We would all have sacrificial bonfires made out of computer mice and western MMO-boxes and praise the gods of SE for showing us the one true way......
Less snarkily: they are drinking their own kool aid. It won't hurt for them to be proven wrong on a massive (pardon the pun) scale. Maybe they can get back to making good FF games again (7,8,9,10, 11....forget anything after that) - and that I would like to see.
The true effect of the disaster that was the FFXIV launch won't show up for a while in the financials of SE, at least not until investors start getting wind of possibly-lowered dividends, prob. by way of a profit warning. Then and only then will you see a relationship between bad game and stock decline - but in the opposite way to what you're positing.
I think it was actually 26 million dollars worth of shares not 26 million shares.
1. USD 26 Million are 2.1 Billion Yen.
2. At a price of 1750 Yen per share that would be the equal to 1.2Million shares.
3. LOOKING AT THE #$@% CHART YOU POSTED YOU SEE THAT AT THE DROP 50,000 SHARES WHERE TRADED NOT 2.1 MILLION SHARES.
Do you understand the chart now? Is that clear enough for you?
I don't immediately assume that the chart is a singular representation of one man's buy/sell habits. I'm not sure if you are assuming that or not but it seems like you might be. That chart represents a lot of people doing a lot of different things on a particular timescale so a 1:1 equivalent drop isn't going to happen. It will however show an overall trend within a certain timeframe. If the market were a 1:1 representation they would be much easier to read and I would be a much richer fellow than I am currently. xD
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I don't think SE is dying but they do need some new talents.
FF has gone downhill after VII and every game now seems worse than the game before so they need to either try something different with them or put the series on ice until they get some better ideas.
So it is no wonder they wont sell as many games now as 10 years ago, but OP should realized that SEs stocks follows the general stock market pretty fine.
SE will be fine even if FF XIV could have done a lot better.
The stock price and those charts are completely useless without additional information such as the Earning Per Share (EPS) how many additional shares have been issued or bought back by the company. Surprising thing when a company issues additional stock to employees and investors the average price goes down, just imagine that.
Now, I don't have a clue as to how the company is doing either good nor bad and if I cared to invest in the company I would take the time to find out but this is just totally bogus.
Sooo..wait, a vast financial conspiracy which has yakuzas aiming flying stars at the heads of hapless SE executives and making them release bad games (because they have to pay off their go debts, or something) makes more sense to the OP than the simple fact (as evidenced by beta) that SE thought they were making the most brilliant MMO evar, and didn't have to listen to the silly beta testers' opinions because what do we know, eh?
Well, one theory could be that the profit margin for SE and it's gaming division had dropped far enough that the "bossman" just decided to let it go despite clear warnings that failure was a real possibility. In the act of "letting it go" they accomplished a singular goal of cashing in on the initial early adopters. It's all theory at this point but that's the fun of a discussion forum. It's just an alternate explanation other than the fact that the dev team are all to lazy to put in the effort to create a real game. Cold hard money is a pretty powerful driving force in this industry.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I think it was actually 26 million dollars worth of shares not 26 million shares.
1. USD 26 Million are 2.1 Billion Yen.
2. At a price of 1750 Yen per share that would be the equal to 1.2Million shares.
3. LOOKING AT THE #$@% CHART YOU POSTED YOU SEE THAT AT THE DROP 50,000 SHARES WHERE TRADED NOT 2.1 MILLION SHARES.
Do you understand the chart now? Is that clear enough for you?
I don't immediately assume that the chart is a singular representation of one man's buy/sell habits. I'm not sure if you are assuming that or not but it seems like you might be. That chart represents a lot of people doing a lot of different things on a particular timescale so a 1:1 equivalent drop isn't going to happen. It will however show an overall trend within a certain timeframe. If the market were a 1:1 representation they would be much easier to read and I would be a much richer fellow than I am currently. xD
What? It's a stock chart, it has nothing to do with a single person or any assumptions. IT SHOWS FACTS.
The VOLUME in that chart shows all shares traded that day by a lot of people doing a lot of different things as you put it. If someone would have sold USD 26 Million in stock it would show in the VOLUME of that drop.
You clearly have no idea about stock charts but keep posting them. Why would you do that?
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
I hate pseudo-intellectual high school nerds that think they know shit about economy (or even the stocks market at all) just because it doesn't seems to be as hard as calculus IV.
Playing: Starcraft II. Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft. Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
I used to buy Squaresoft games for my consoles, SNES, PS and PS2. Ever since Square released FF8, after doing so well with FF7, the company has been in life support. FFXI was the last straw for me and I've not bought any Square product ever since. Square as a company got lazy and as a gamer I can see that.
Enix also makes good games. I have Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile and I enjoyed playing both. But ever since it merges with Square, I stopped buying their product also.
I beta tested FFIV and that game is just horrible. The game wants you to make it your new world, where you drive the economy, and practically work to make a living - in a game. Seriously?
I am personally done with SE. If it dies, I probably won't even notice. Shame that FF-series was a great series.
SE is not dying but they havedn't produced a very good game in a while. They must get their priorities checked and try looking at the market instead of sticking their head where the sun doesn't shine and expect people to just hand over money for names. The same thing is happening with shooters kind of.
I'm not sure man, if I do what you did out of context it looks to me like we are in for a serious disaster here. 95% of the internet backbone in the US is carried on the above compaines. Without them the internet dies entirely here. Looks like thier life is coming to an end too! OMFG THE WORLD IS ENDING!! THE INTERWEBS IS DYIN!!!
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I dont find this thread very informative or even amusing. It is clear that FFXIV is a game that is dramatically lackluster and far from pristine in relation to the craftmanship of making games. All reviews have pointed out the game simply isnt ready for release. SE followed a market trend of releasing in the beta stage. I suspect this happens because of the pressure of making money. The game only sucks out money of the company and misses revenue opertunities while being in production. During the development a game is a pure investment. So when the game releases way too early I simply conclude that the company couldnt afford to invest further, and needed the potential revenue sooner rather than later. When a game is released in the state that FFXIV was, it is a statement of desperation. I'm not an economist or financial analyst, but it's common logic that it's really bad for you to be perceived as desperate in any situation where you are trying to "win people over".
So back to the graphs: I'm sure the world is filled with graphs testifying to the economic depression, but what is really interesting is how this relates to SE in this case; wether SE has the wallet to carry on with it's crippled milking cow, or not. There is a limit to everything - even SE capital. I supose the buffer size has decreased from the depression, and the early release suggest desperation. So how about some graphs and numbers clarifying that for us? How desperate are they really?
Is SE's reputation as a quality developer, and one of the "premier" development companies who's every future game is looked at as a "must buy" rapidly coming to an end? You bet your ass.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I wonder if the Japanese gov. diet would give SE a bailout?
Final Fantasy XIV sold over 250,000 copies in North America alone. They likely recouped their development budget already. The game might not have a whole lot going for it in terms of content and longevity at the moment, but that hasn't stopped Square-Enix from making a mint on brand-name appeal alone.
I wonder if the Japanese gov. diet would give SE a bailout?
Final Fantasy XIV sold over 250,000 copies in North America alone. They likely recouped their development budget already. The game might not have a whole lot going for it in terms of content and longevity at the moment, but that hasn't stopped Square-Enix from making a mint on brand-name appeal alone.
That says alot more about the people who will buy abject crap then the company that peddle it tbh.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I wonder if the Japanese gov. diet would give SE a bailout?
Final Fantasy XIV sold over 250,000 copies in North America alone. They likely recouped their development budget already. The game might not have a whole lot going for it in terms of content and longevity at the moment, but that hasn't stopped Square-Enix from making a mint on brand-name appeal alone.
games been in development for over 5 years, I doubt they recupped much of that. Remember it took FFXi almost 2 years to break even and that game was very well recieved.
Either way this FF14 release could have bolstered the company name and it's products for years and instead it's basically a deathknell. The people most effected by the release is the FF fans themselves, the ones that would buy up anything with a FF name on it regardless of the platform. After releases like this it's not much of a leap to think people aren't going to be doing that anymore.
There will be the occasional person that will defend them irrationally whether the product is good or not but for the most part people are smart enough to recognize a clear company policy change that has caused the games to suffer. People have long memories for things such as this. Just look at SOE with SWG.. wow it's been forever and people still hate them for it.
This didn't happen just this year, they've worked on this game for years and directly and purposefully guided the direction the game has gone. You can't look at what they've done here and say "woops that was a mistake lets fix it in the next 3-4 months". That seems pretty unlikely.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Comments
Sooo..wait, a vast financial conspiracy which has yakuzas aiming flying stars at the heads of hapless SE executives and making them release bad games (because they have to pay off their go debts, or something) makes more sense to the OP than the simple fact (as evidenced by beta) that SE thought they were making the most brilliant MMO evar, and didn't have to listen to the silly beta testers' opinions because what do we know, eh?
Riiiiight.
FFXIV was developed by a bunch of people who never played any MMOs outside of their own previous effort and arrogantly assumed that rather than having to change their offering based on the evolving MMO market since FFXI launched, they would release FFXIV, the world would swoon at its utter awesomeness and forget about such things as....errrr....hardware support for mouse, intuitive (and easily navigable) UI and all the rest of those things we've stupidly become accustomed to. We would all have sacrificial bonfires made out of computer mice and western MMO-boxes and praise the gods of SE for showing us the one true way......
Less snarkily: they are drinking their own kool aid. It won't hurt for them to be proven wrong on a massive (pardon the pun) scale. Maybe they can get back to making good FF games again (7,8,9,10, 11....forget anything after that) - and that I would like to see.
The true effect of the disaster that was the FFXIV launch won't show up for a while in the financials of SE, at least not until investors start getting wind of possibly-lowered dividends, prob. by way of a profit warning. Then and only then will you see a relationship between bad game and stock decline - but in the opposite way to what you're positing.
I don't immediately assume that the chart is a singular representation of one man's buy/sell habits. I'm not sure if you are assuming that or not but it seems like you might be. That chart represents a lot of people doing a lot of different things on a particular timescale so a 1:1 equivalent drop isn't going to happen. It will however show an overall trend within a certain timeframe. If the market were a 1:1 representation they would be much easier to read and I would be a much richer fellow than I am currently. xD
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
See their Facebook game, Knights of the Crystals? Maybe not because it is constantly down for maintenance.
I don't think SE is dying but they do need some new talents.
FF has gone downhill after VII and every game now seems worse than the game before so they need to either try something different with them or put the series on ice until they get some better ideas.
So it is no wonder they wont sell as many games now as 10 years ago, but OP should realized that SEs stocks follows the general stock market pretty fine.
SE will be fine even if FF XIV could have done a lot better.
The stock price and those charts are completely useless without additional information such as the Earning Per Share (EPS) how many additional shares have been issued or bought back by the company. Surprising thing when a company issues additional stock to employees and investors the average price goes down, just imagine that.
Now, I don't have a clue as to how the company is doing either good nor bad and if I cared to invest in the company I would take the time to find out but this is just totally bogus.
Well, one theory could be that the profit margin for SE and it's gaming division had dropped far enough that the "bossman" just decided to let it go despite clear warnings that failure was a real possibility. In the act of "letting it go" they accomplished a singular goal of cashing in on the initial early adopters. It's all theory at this point but that's the fun of a discussion forum. It's just an alternate explanation other than the fact that the dev team are all to lazy to put in the effort to create a real game. Cold hard money is a pretty powerful driving force in this industry.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
What? It's a stock chart, it has nothing to do with a single person or any assumptions. IT SHOWS FACTS.
The VOLUME in that chart shows all shares traded that day by a lot of people doing a lot of different things as you put it. If someone would have sold USD 26 Million in stock it would show in the VOLUME of that drop.
You clearly have no idea about stock charts but keep posting them. Why would you do that?
I hate pseudo-intellectual high school nerds that think they know shit about economy (or even the stocks market at all) just because it doesn't seems to be as hard as calculus IV.
Playing: Starcraft II.
Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft.
Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
I used to buy Squaresoft games for my consoles, SNES, PS and PS2. Ever since Square released FF8, after doing so well with FF7, the company has been in life support. FFXI was the last straw for me and I've not bought any Square product ever since. Square as a company got lazy and as a gamer I can see that.
Enix also makes good games. I have Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile and I enjoyed playing both. But ever since it merges with Square, I stopped buying their product also.
I beta tested FFIV and that game is just horrible. The game wants you to make it your new world, where you drive the economy, and practically work to make a living - in a game. Seriously?
I am personally done with SE. If it dies, I probably won't even notice. Shame that FF-series was a great series.
Ready for GW2!!!
SE is not dying but they havedn't produced a very good game in a while. They must get their priorities checked and try looking at the market instead of sticking their head where the sun doesn't shine and expect people to just hand over money for names. The same thing is happening with shooters kind of.
1784 was a pretty bad year for video game companies.
HAHAHA what?
That was inventive.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I wonder if the Japanese gov. diet would give SE a bailout?
lol
I don't even know what company people is talking about.
What does SE stands for? Square Enix? Sony entertaiment? Sony Online Entertainment?
And is that only the MMORPG branch. Or does that include other things like Sony Music Entertainment, etc.
SE = Square Enix
SOE = Sony Online Entertainment
This is in the Final Fantasy 14 forum. Square Enix made FF14. The initials for Square Enix is SE. So with this knowledge one can assume.....
AT&T
Verizon
Sprint
Level3
Frontier
I'm not sure man, if I do what you did out of context it looks to me like we are in for a serious disaster here. 95% of the internet backbone in the US is carried on the above compaines. Without them the internet dies entirely here. Looks like thier life is coming to an end too! OMFG THE WORLD IS ENDING!! THE INTERWEBS IS DYIN!!!
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I dont find this thread very informative or even amusing. It is clear that FFXIV is a game that is dramatically lackluster and far from pristine in relation to the craftmanship of making games. All reviews have pointed out the game simply isnt ready for release. SE followed a market trend of releasing in the beta stage. I suspect this happens because of the pressure of making money. The game only sucks out money of the company and misses revenue opertunities while being in production. During the development a game is a pure investment. So when the game releases way too early I simply conclude that the company couldnt afford to invest further, and needed the potential revenue sooner rather than later. When a game is released in the state that FFXIV was, it is a statement of desperation. I'm not an economist or financial analyst, but it's common logic that it's really bad for you to be perceived as desperate in any situation where you are trying to "win people over".
So back to the graphs: I'm sure the world is filled with graphs testifying to the economic depression, but what is really interesting is how this relates to SE in this case; wether SE has the wallet to carry on with it's crippled milking cow, or not. There is a limit to everything - even SE capital. I supose the buffer size has decreased from the depression, and the early release suggest desperation. So how about some graphs and numbers clarifying that for us? How desperate are they really?
Is SE as a company dying? No, not any time soon.
Is SE's reputation as a quality developer, and one of the "premier" development companies who's every future game is looked at as a "must buy" rapidly coming to an end? You bet your ass.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Final Fantasy XIV sold over 250,000 copies in North America alone. They likely recouped their development budget already. The game might not have a whole lot going for it in terms of content and longevity at the moment, but that hasn't stopped Square-Enix from making a mint on brand-name appeal alone.
That says alot more about the people who will buy abject crap then the company that peddle it tbh.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
the last 3 Final Fantasys 12,13 and 14 have been unworthy of the name.
games been in development for over 5 years, I doubt they recupped much of that. Remember it took FFXi almost 2 years to break even and that game was very well recieved.
Either way this FF14 release could have bolstered the company name and it's products for years and instead it's basically a deathknell. The people most effected by the release is the FF fans themselves, the ones that would buy up anything with a FF name on it regardless of the platform. After releases like this it's not much of a leap to think people aren't going to be doing that anymore.
There will be the occasional person that will defend them irrationally whether the product is good or not but for the most part people are smart enough to recognize a clear company policy change that has caused the games to suffer. People have long memories for things such as this. Just look at SOE with SWG.. wow it's been forever and people still hate them for it.
This didn't happen just this year, they've worked on this game for years and directly and purposefully guided the direction the game has gone. You can't look at what they've done here and say "woops that was a mistake lets fix it in the next 3-4 months". That seems pretty unlikely.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
This topic makes me chuckle.