Another way to see it would be the profit they make selling those vanity items can be used to fund additional developers to work on new piece of content. Either way unless you work for NCSoft there is no way to know how much resource was spent on making those items or what they are doing with their profit.
This argument has been brought up by players and developers many times. Despite the theory that it may lead to more development, every game I can think of that has added a cash shop on top of a subscription model has seen a decline in content quality, quantity and/or an increase between content releases. There is just no evidence to support these claims as far as I can tell.
As for the amount of resources spent on these things, it doesn't matter. The point is that some were diverted from normal content development to create these things. No matter how it is rationalized these types of things are a net loss to the subscription player. 10 hours or 1,000 hours the result is the same isn't it? The only difference here is levels of tolerance between players towards receiving less and being charged more.
Whenever i hear reasons about why these things are positive for a game, they always seem to come across as excuses...
Want a suggestion? If you dont liek this quit MMO gaming NOW. Blizzard does this(wow $25.00 mounts), SOE(EQ2 $25.00 mounts), Cryptic, SE and many others. Its the FUTURE of the market direction. I guarantee you GW2 will have it as will SWTOR, Tera and Rift. Heaven forbid these companies try and make money other ways then the same way its been done th past 12+ years :P
You are missing the point here. The point is that these items can be traded in game for in game money.
EQ2 items can not be traded and I am pretty sure most if not all other games doesn't allow that kind of things. Usually you get copies for all your character or can trade them between them but not sell them to other players, that is why OP is upset.
Can plex be converted to in game currency their ISK by trading the plex for ISK which is in game currency so you can use real money by plex then trade it for virtual currency. Isn't that like the gold sellers buying some item off you in the auction house at inflated prices. The final result is that virtual currency is exchanged for real money. Or am I missing something here.
You got it right as far as I'm concerned.
You can buy EVE plex for real money. EVE Plex can be sold in game to other players for isk. Isk can be used to buy in game items. Just another form of RMT.
The difference being that the cash being spent only goes to buying more game time/subs for the game and isn't spent elsewhere. Also, it lets the player base participate rather than outside gold farming firms and it subsidizes many players accounts.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
CCP allows you to convert plex into isk so that is not true. So CCP are the gold traders then. They just made it legitimate. Nice spin.
The most horrible thing is they have piracy and stealing going on in Eve so people lose real money and the only people that benefit when plex get stolen is CCP.
If SOE did something like this you guys will be all over it. Oh no it is some indie developer so its okay . Let's see SOE sells station pass time for in game currency allowing you to convert station time to money in game. I wonder what all you SOE haters will say.
Can plex be converted to in game currency their ISK by trading the plex for ISK which is in game currency so you can use real money by plex then trade it for virtual currency. Isn't that like the gold sellers buying some item off you in the auction house at inflated prices. The final result is that virtual currency is exchanged for real money. Or am I missing something here.
You got it right as far as I'm concerned.
You can buy EVE plex for real money. EVE Plex can be sold in game to other players for isk. Isk can be used to buy in game items. Just another form of RMT.
The difference being that the cash being spent only goes to buying more game time/subs for the game and isn't spent elsewhere. Also, it lets the player base participate rather than outside gold farming firms and it subsidizes many players accounts.
Exactly, so many people think the problem is NCSoft selling items for money $$$. This is not the problem. Gee people are so friggin quick to defend companies selling in-game items for cash they don't see the whole picture.
The problem is, the item you bought from NCSoft with real money $$$, can be sold in-game for kinah (in-game currency) so basically NCSoft is giving you the tool to convert money into kinah.
Whether it is popular or not, the point is. The company making the game and banning RMT is giving players a tool to convert money into kinah.
Can plex be converted to in game currency their ISK by trading the plex for ISK which is in game currency so you can use real money by plex then trade it for virtual currency. Isn't that like the gold sellers buying some item off you in the auction house at inflated prices. The final result is that virtual currency is exchanged for real money. Or am I missing something here.
You got it right as far as I'm concerned.
You can buy EVE plex for real money. EVE Plex can be sold in game to other players for isk. Isk can be used to buy in game items. Just another form of RMT.
The difference being that the cash being spent only goes to buying more game time/subs for the game and isn't spent elsewhere. Also, it lets the player base participate rather than outside gold farming firms and it subsidizes many players accounts.
I have two subs to EVE. I think it is one of the best MMORPGs that we will ever see. But if you aren't able to see this as straight developer supported RMT, then you aren't looking hard enough.
For whatever reason, you interpreted what I said as implying that this is a bad thing. It also seems that you think I said that this is the same as companies selling gold or items illegally. I didn't say either of those things.
What I did say is that EVE uses just another form of RMT. Which is true.
Edit: I would also like to add that what this company is doing is essentially the same as what CCP is doing. It really makes no difference what the items are used for. All that matter is that the items are bought for real money and then traded to players for in game money. That is exactly the same as what EVE is doing. Whether or not it is used for game time makes no difference. These are vanity items, not game changers.
And CM's are deleting any threads that explain how you convert your $$$ into kinah.
-Buy skin on NCSoft store. 9.95$
-Apply skin to a low lvl cheap white item (tradeable items)
-Put the item on broker for 3mil up to 20mil depending on your server. Mileage may vary.
-Check broker click "collect kinah"
Done.
And as time will pass more and more items will be available. So the broker won't be saturated and items will flow with the rest naturally and retain its value.
9.95$ for 3-20 mil kinah is a deal, farmers sell kinah for 5-12$ for 2 mil. The big picture? NCSoft is just slowly working to monopolize RMT before they go F2P with cash shop. TBH it's a good plan.
CCP allows you to convert plex into isk so that is not true. So CCP are the gold traders then. They just made it legitimate. Nice spin.
The most horrible thing is they have piracy and stealing going on in Eve so people lose real money and the only people that benefit when plex get stolen is CCP.
If SOE did something like this you guys will be all over it. Oh no it is some indie developer so its okay . Let's see SOE sells station pass time for in game currency allowing you to convert station time to money in game. I wonder what all you SOE haters will say.
The difference is that CCP made this change to combat currency sales in the game and has had some success with it. No content is removed from access to players and then "resold" to them. It doesn't require new content to continuosly be developed to keep interest in cash sales high and thus be a steady drain on the designers. Also there is a set limit on how many plex can be sold, since everyone only pays 1 subscription fee per month (for each account that is).
CCP doesn't sell the plex for ingame currency, they sell it for that standard sub fee, but allow players to trade them for ingame currency. As far as RMT goes it is a fairly balanced system. Players with lots of time can benefit from players with lots of money. No one is being denied content unless they pay cash for it and it discourages 3rd party currency sales. It really doesn't exploit any of the norms that most cash shops try to. Looking cool, getting power, etc. It struck a decent balance between the two without causing much (if any) harm.
Most other cash shops change the nature of game design. Every item now has to go through some sort of review. Do they give it to players as content update or put it in the cash shop for resale.
It is all slippery slopes, but some are more dangerous than others.
How would it play out in a fantasy game that has little to no control over the game economy is hard to tell. Maybe it would be awesome or maybe it would ruin the gameplay, regardless of who tried to do it.
This argument has been brought up by players and developers many times. Despite the theory that it may lead to more development, every game I can think of that has added a cash shop on top of a subscription model has seen a decline in content quality, quantity and/or an increase between content releases. There is just no evidence to support these claims as far as I can tell.
As for the amount of resources spent on these things, it doesn't matter. The point is that some were diverted from normal content development to create these things. No matter how it is rationalized these types of things are a net loss to the subscription player. 10 hours or 1,000 hours the result is the same isn't it? The only difference here is levels of tolerance between players towards receiving less and being charged more.
I saw examples where it happened in both ways, so I don't see such correlation as you do. In AOC, the quality of the game increased as they added their packages with experience pots. On another hand, WoW has gotten bad with fewer content release than ever since WotLK.
But I think it has much more to do with lack of competition than the addition of cash shops. It is so expensive and risky to try and reach a good spot in the MMO genre that one company can do as it please to milk as much money as possible once it gets there. And the players keep buying those fluff items or paying their subscription.
Also, keep in mind that in the case of Aion, the game was built for a Pay-as-you-go market where it is easier for their customers to accept keeping active accounts for multiple shallow games.
This argument has been brought up by players and developers many times. Despite the theory that it may lead to more development, every game I can think of that has added a cash shop on top of a subscription model has seen a decline in content quality, quantity and/or an increase between content releases. There is just no evidence to support these claims as far as I can tell.
As for the amount of resources spent on these things, it doesn't matter. The point is that some were diverted from normal content development to create these things. No matter how it is rationalized these types of things are a net loss to the subscription player. 10 hours or 1,000 hours the result is the same isn't it? The only difference here is levels of tolerance between players towards receiving less and being charged more.
I saw examples where it happened in both ways, so I don't see such correlation as you do. In AOC, the quality of the game increased as they added their packages with experience pots. On another hand, WoW has gotten bad with fewer content release than ever since WotLK.
I am not very familiar with AoC, but I do know it took over a year to fix something as simple as item stats, seige crashing (if even fixed). Quality alone isn't some gauge to show increase from a cash shop. Few and infrequent count just as much as quality. Was there really a marked increase in quality, quantity and frequency of content updates after they sold potions? I'm not saying the game hasn't gotten better over the last 2.5 years, but that is to be expected of a game.
I can't really look at any subscription games that have added cash sales and see a marked improvement from their content additions. This isn't related to my opinion of if they belong or not, but rather the offerings each company has given. Most have actually seen decreases or delays since their cash shops. EQ2 is a great example as it has more variations of RMT offered to players and has seen a marked decline in content during that time.
I am not very familiar with AoC, but I do know it took over a year to fix something as simple as item stats, seige crashing (if even fixed). Quality alone isn't some gauge to show increase from a cash shop. Few and infrequent count just as much as quality. Was there really a marked increase in quality, quantity and frequency of content updates after they sold potions? I'm not saying the game hasn't gotten better over the last 2.5 years, but that is to be expected of a game.
I can't really look at any subscription games that have added cash sales and see a marked improvement from their content additions. This isn't related to my opinion of if they belong or not, but rather the offerings each company has given. Most have actually seen decreases or delays since their cash shops. EQ2 is a great example as it has more variations of RMT offered to players and has seen a marked decline in content during that time.
Since they released RotGS in April, they released few patches to add a lot of quests, they did some balance (though they made Rangers completely OP) and they are now working on a new PVP mini. I might be out of date since I haven't played in the past months. I do realize that quality improvement or content update are not really quantifiable (or measurable) so I can hardly back my original statement.
I still don't think RMT is a cause of the slow down you are noticing in subscription games. I think companies are just adding RMT when they feel they can count on their loyal fanbase to increase their revenues through in-game items. Now back to EQ2, how healthy was the game when you noticed a slow down in the updates? Were the subscriptions mostly steady or was it declining. This is a honest question as I've never played EQ2, unfortunately. My theory is that the popularity of the game was on the decline, and the development was cut down as revenues were also on the decline. I might be completely wrong; This is only a speculation...
That would make 2 reasons behind the slow down in the addition of new content in a game:
Lack of competition once a game reaches a plateau, such as WoW, as stated in a previous post;
Revenues are lower than expected and the development team is being 'adjusted'.
I've stopped playing Aion a long time ago but I have to say this: If someone is not okay with vanity items and items that don't affect your gameplay directly then he needs to quit mmo gaming NOW before he gets trumpled by every mmo releasing the next year. Vanity stuff are here to stay, yes, noone likes it, but it will never change so it's time to accept it and move on.
I still don't think RMT is a cause of the slow down you are noticing in subscription games.
(Nice discussion btw)
I wasn't trying to say that the addition of RMT caused a decline in content for subscription games that added cash shops. I was pointing out that the increased revenue from those cash shops has not lead to increased development for those games as developers and some players claim might happen.
I still don't think RMT is a cause of the slow down you are noticing in subscription games.
(Nice discussion btw)
I wasn't trying to say that the addition of RMT caused a decline in content for subscription games that added cash shops. I was pointing out that the increased revenue from those cash shops has not lead to increased development for those games as developers and some players claim might happen.
Which is also speculation based on circumstantial evidence.
Which is also speculation based on circumstantial evidence.
There are actually some pretty good examples games staying the same.
EQ2 got a RMT shop for about 1 1/2 years ago or something. That really made no difference to the game whatsoever, updates are as before. The impact on Wow is also zero.
DDO however did get a lot more things added, but only stuff you will have to pay for. And since they cut P2P and made the game F2P itt probably shouldn't be counted here.
So in those cases it seems like either the company keeps all the profit or they add content you pay to play. Unless you have an example where adding a cashshop actually improved a P2P game it seems to me that it is just a way to increase profit for minimal work.
RMT is fine in F2P and B2P but in monthly fee games they add nothing good, just fluff we should be getting for free. If they need more money they should raise the monthly fees or change business model.
Which is also speculation based on circumstantial evidence.
There are actually some pretty good examples games staying the same.
EQ2 got a RMT shop for about 1 1/2 years ago or something. That really made no difference to the game whatsoever, updates are as before. The impact on Wow is also zero.
DDO however did get a lot more things added, but only stuff you will have to pay for. And since they cut P2P and made the game F2P itt probably shouldn't be counted here.
So in those cases it seems like either the company keeps all the profit or they add content you pay to play. Unless you have an example where adding a cashshop actually improved a P2P game it seems to me that it is just a way to increase profit for minimal work.
RMT is fine in F2P and B2P but in monthly fee games they add nothing good, just fluff we should be getting for free. If they need more money they should raise the monthly fees or change business model.
A counter would be WoW. They added a few fluff things, some for charity, and they add a large amount of content and systems all the time.
I think overall development for some games is unaffected and for some it is affected. I think it's something to consider on a case by case basis. And there is really nothing that stops me from believing that some times it might actually "help" development. LotRO for instance appears to be making a lot more money and I'll bet it actually adds to the overall development of the game. Not just cash shop items.
A counter would be WoW. They added a few fluff things, some for charity, and they add a large amount of content and systems all the time.
I think overall development for some games is unaffected and for some it is affected. I think it's something to consider on a case by case basis. And there is really nothing that convinces me that some times it might actually "help" development. LotRO for instance appears to be making a lot more money and I'll bet it actually adds to the overall development of the game. Not just cash shop items.
Wow do not add more content now than before, they added as much before the launch of their others expansions as now. The question was if the RMT shop made any difference and it seems to be doing the same now as before.
LOTRO have changed from P2P to F2P and that is a completely different thing that worked fine for DDO as I said before, for LOTRO we will still need to wait a little longer and see since it was just 2 months ago they did the change.
But I still havn't seen any game with monthly fees that got more updates after adding a RMT shop. Blizzard give some money to charity and keep some themselves and that's about all the cash shop have added.
A counter would be WoW. They added a few fluff things, some for charity, and they add a large amount of content and systems all the time.
I think overall development for some games is unaffected and for some it is affected. I think it's something to consider on a case by case basis. And there is really nothing that convinces me that some times it might actually "help" development. LotRO for instance appears to be making a lot more money and I'll bet it actually adds to the overall development of the game. Not just cash shop items.
Wow do not add more content now than before, they added as much before the launch of their others expansions as now. The question was if the RMT shop made any difference and it seems to be doing the same now as before.
LOTRO have changed from P2P to F2P and that is a completely different thing that worked fine for DDO as I said before, for LOTRO we will still need to wait a little longer and see since it was just 2 months ago they did the change.
But I still havn't seen any game with monthly fees that got more updates after adding a RMT shop. Blizzard give some money to charity and keep some themselves and that's about all the cash shop have added.
Is it doing the same or is it adding more? How do you know? Do they have a bigger pool of money? Do they use it for development? Do they just buy bigger planes? If they didn't have cash shop items, would they not be able to hire as many people? Is time affecting the game more than cash shops?
Since no one can answer these questions, I refuse to make an assumption based on what it "seems" like the case is.
That is why it is speculation based on circumstantial evidence.
A counter would be WoW. They added a few fluff things, some for charity, and they add a large amount of content and systems all the time.
They did slow down though. WotLK is the weakest era in terms of content added post-release, with 1.5 recycled raid instances, a bunch of single room raid dungeons, 3 instances (though I enjoyed it a lot), and only 2 massive raid instances (Ulduar and ICC). We also didn't get any token Troll raid instance this time
I still don't think RMT is a cause of the slow down you are noticing in subscription games.
(Nice discussion btw)
I wasn't trying to say that the addition of RMT caused a decline in content for subscription games that added cash shops. I was pointing out that the increased revenue from those cash shops has not lead to increased development for those games as developers and some players claim might happen.
Which is also speculation based on circumstantial evidence.
There is evidence that games which have added cash shops onto subscriptions have not seen an increase in content development. There isn't any evidence showing any of those games increasing content.
It doesn't matter why the declines happened or how they happened, just that they did. That alone disproves any speculations that RMT revenue might increase content development. It is possible that they could increase content development, but to date there is no evidence to show they have.
Is it doing the same or is it adding more? How do you know? Do they have a bigger pool of money? Do they use it for development? Do they just buy bigger planes? If they didn't have cash shop items, would they not be able to hire as many people? Is time affecting the game more than cash shops?
Since no one can answer these questions, I refuse to make an assumption based on what it "seems" like the case is.
That is why it is speculation based on circumstantial evidence.
Well, then you just have to make some kind of chart for all the stuff Wow patched in from start, or one for dungeons and zones, another one for fixes, a third for balancing and so on.
To me it seems exactly the same as before counting that a new expansion is 2 months away, no more and no less. And since you are saying that it have changed it should really be you that proves it has changed.
I know with 100% that EQ2 have done no changes, they are making exactly as many large patches and small patches between the expansions now as they did before.
Of course you can argue and say that Blizzard would otherwise cut down on the content since they are obviously putting Kaplan and the rest of their best people on Blizzards next MMO but they still have enough players to keep going with the updates, in fact they should work even harder now if they want to get old player back (and staying) with CATA.
But I am too lazy myself to actually count the number of patches and the content in them for Wow, something I did for EQ2 since we discussed when the next expansion will come out and how many patches more it would be before this late spring, we are exactly on that track now still.
They did slow down though. WotLK is the weakest era in terms of content added post-release, with 1.5 recycled raid instances, a bunch of single room raid dungeons, 3 instances (though I enjoyed it a lot), and only 2 massive raid instances (Ulduar and ICC). We also didn't get any token Troll raid instance this time
I think that is more because Blizzard are moving more people to D# and the next MMO, or at least more experienced people. It is really logical, Wow is the present for Blizz but D3 and the next MMO is the future, if they mess the next MMO up it would cost them dearly.
But eventual profit from the RMT probably go to that as well and not back to Wow.
Comments
Whenever i hear reasons about why these things are positive for a game, they always seem to come across as excuses...
You are missing the point here. The point is that these items can be traded in game for in game money.
EQ2 items can not be traded and I am pretty sure most if not all other games doesn't allow that kind of things. Usually you get copies for all your character or can trade them between them but not sell them to other players, that is why OP is upset.
The difference being that the cash being spent only goes to buying more game time/subs for the game and isn't spent elsewhere. Also, it lets the player base participate rather than outside gold farming firms and it subsidizes many players accounts.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
CCP allows you to convert plex into isk so that is not true. So CCP are the gold traders then. They just made it legitimate. Nice spin.
The most horrible thing is they have piracy and stealing going on in Eve so people lose real money and the only people that benefit when plex get stolen is CCP.
If SOE did something like this you guys will be all over it. Oh no it is some indie developer so its okay . Let's see SOE sells station pass time for in game currency allowing you to convert station time to money in game. I wonder what all you SOE haters will say.
Exactly, so many people think the problem is NCSoft selling items for money $$$. This is not the problem. Gee people are so friggin quick to defend companies selling in-game items for cash they don't see the whole picture.
The problem is, the item you bought from NCSoft with real money $$$, can be sold in-game for kinah (in-game currency) so basically NCSoft is giving you the tool to convert money into kinah.
Whether it is popular or not, the point is. The company making the game and banning RMT is giving players a tool to convert money into kinah.
There I hope people finally understand.
I have two subs to EVE. I think it is one of the best MMORPGs that we will ever see. But if you aren't able to see this as straight developer supported RMT, then you aren't looking hard enough.
For whatever reason, you interpreted what I said as implying that this is a bad thing. It also seems that you think I said that this is the same as companies selling gold or items illegally. I didn't say either of those things.
What I did say is that EVE uses just another form of RMT. Which is true.
Edit: I would also like to add that what this company is doing is essentially the same as what CCP is doing. It really makes no difference what the items are used for. All that matter is that the items are bought for real money and then traded to players for in game money. That is exactly the same as what EVE is doing. Whether or not it is used for game time makes no difference. These are vanity items, not game changers.
And CM's are deleting any threads that explain how you convert your $$$ into kinah.
-Buy skin on NCSoft store. 9.95$
-Apply skin to a low lvl cheap white item (tradeable items)
-Put the item on broker for 3mil up to 20mil depending on your server. Mileage may vary.
-Check broker click "collect kinah"
Done.
And as time will pass more and more items will be available. So the broker won't be saturated and items will flow with the rest naturally and retain its value.
9.95$ for 3-20 mil kinah is a deal, farmers sell kinah for 5-12$ for 2 mil. The big picture? NCSoft is just slowly working to monopolize RMT before they go F2P with cash shop. TBH it's a good plan.
The difference is that CCP made this change to combat currency sales in the game and has had some success with it. No content is removed from access to players and then "resold" to them. It doesn't require new content to continuosly be developed to keep interest in cash sales high and thus be a steady drain on the designers. Also there is a set limit on how many plex can be sold, since everyone only pays 1 subscription fee per month (for each account that is).
CCP doesn't sell the plex for ingame currency, they sell it for that standard sub fee, but allow players to trade them for ingame currency. As far as RMT goes it is a fairly balanced system. Players with lots of time can benefit from players with lots of money. No one is being denied content unless they pay cash for it and it discourages 3rd party currency sales. It really doesn't exploit any of the norms that most cash shops try to. Looking cool, getting power, etc. It struck a decent balance between the two without causing much (if any) harm.
Most other cash shops change the nature of game design. Every item now has to go through some sort of review. Do they give it to players as content update or put it in the cash shop for resale.
It is all slippery slopes, but some are more dangerous than others.
How would it play out in a fantasy game that has little to no control over the game economy is hard to tell. Maybe it would be awesome or maybe it would ruin the gameplay, regardless of who tried to do it.
I saw examples where it happened in both ways, so I don't see such correlation as you do. In AOC, the quality of the game increased as they added their packages with experience pots. On another hand, WoW has gotten bad with fewer content release than ever since WotLK.
But I think it has much more to do with lack of competition than the addition of cash shops. It is so expensive and risky to try and reach a good spot in the MMO genre that one company can do as it please to milk as much money as possible once it gets there. And the players keep buying those fluff items or paying their subscription.
Also, keep in mind that in the case of Aion, the game was built for a Pay-as-you-go market where it is easier for their customers to accept keeping active accounts for multiple shallow games.
LOL, a Lightsaber skin, errr Aether Blade skin that is.
I am not very familiar with AoC, but I do know it took over a year to fix something as simple as item stats, seige crashing (if even fixed). Quality alone isn't some gauge to show increase from a cash shop. Few and infrequent count just as much as quality. Was there really a marked increase in quality, quantity and frequency of content updates after they sold potions? I'm not saying the game hasn't gotten better over the last 2.5 years, but that is to be expected of a game.
I can't really look at any subscription games that have added cash sales and see a marked improvement from their content additions. This isn't related to my opinion of if they belong or not, but rather the offerings each company has given. Most have actually seen decreases or delays since their cash shops. EQ2 is a great example as it has more variations of RMT offered to players and has seen a marked decline in content during that time.
Since they released RotGS in April, they released few patches to add a lot of quests, they did some balance (though they made Rangers completely OP) and they are now working on a new PVP mini. I might be out of date since I haven't played in the past months. I do realize that quality improvement or content update are not really quantifiable (or measurable) so I can hardly back my original statement.
I still don't think RMT is a cause of the slow down you are noticing in subscription games. I think companies are just adding RMT when they feel they can count on their loyal fanbase to increase their revenues through in-game items. Now back to EQ2, how healthy was the game when you noticed a slow down in the updates? Were the subscriptions mostly steady or was it declining. This is a honest question as I've never played EQ2, unfortunately. My theory is that the popularity of the game was on the decline, and the development was cut down as revenues were also on the decline. I might be completely wrong; This is only a speculation...
That would make 2 reasons behind the slow down in the addition of new content in a game:
Lack of competition once a game reaches a plateau, such as WoW, as stated in a previous post;
Revenues are lower than expected and the development team is being 'adjusted'.
(Nice discussion btw)
I've stopped playing Aion a long time ago but I have to say this: If someone is not okay with vanity items and items that don't affect your gameplay directly then he needs to quit mmo gaming NOW before he gets trumpled by every mmo releasing the next year. Vanity stuff are here to stay, yes, noone likes it, but it will never change so it's time to accept it and move on.
I wasn't trying to say that the addition of RMT caused a decline in content for subscription games that added cash shops. I was pointing out that the increased revenue from those cash shops has not lead to increased development for those games as developers and some players claim might happen.
Which is also speculation based on circumstantial evidence.
There are actually some pretty good examples games staying the same.
EQ2 got a RMT shop for about 1 1/2 years ago or something. That really made no difference to the game whatsoever, updates are as before. The impact on Wow is also zero.
DDO however did get a lot more things added, but only stuff you will have to pay for. And since they cut P2P and made the game F2P itt probably shouldn't be counted here.
So in those cases it seems like either the company keeps all the profit or they add content you pay to play. Unless you have an example where adding a cashshop actually improved a P2P game it seems to me that it is just a way to increase profit for minimal work.
RMT is fine in F2P and B2P but in monthly fee games they add nothing good, just fluff we should be getting for free. If they need more money they should raise the monthly fees or change business model.
A counter would be WoW. They added a few fluff things, some for charity, and they add a large amount of content and systems all the time.
I think overall development for some games is unaffected and for some it is affected. I think it's something to consider on a case by case basis. And there is really nothing that stops me from believing that some times it might actually "help" development. LotRO for instance appears to be making a lot more money and I'll bet it actually adds to the overall development of the game. Not just cash shop items.
Wow do not add more content now than before, they added as much before the launch of their others expansions as now. The question was if the RMT shop made any difference and it seems to be doing the same now as before.
LOTRO have changed from P2P to F2P and that is a completely different thing that worked fine for DDO as I said before, for LOTRO we will still need to wait a little longer and see since it was just 2 months ago they did the change.
But I still havn't seen any game with monthly fees that got more updates after adding a RMT shop. Blizzard give some money to charity and keep some themselves and that's about all the cash shop have added.
Is it doing the same or is it adding more? How do you know? Do they have a bigger pool of money? Do they use it for development? Do they just buy bigger planes? If they didn't have cash shop items, would they not be able to hire as many people? Is time affecting the game more than cash shops?
Since no one can answer these questions, I refuse to make an assumption based on what it "seems" like the case is.
That is why it is speculation based on circumstantial evidence.
They did slow down though. WotLK is the weakest era in terms of content added post-release, with 1.5 recycled raid instances, a bunch of single room raid dungeons, 3 instances (though I enjoyed it a lot), and only 2 massive raid instances (Ulduar and ICC). We also didn't get any token Troll raid instance this time
Way to even more fail.Nice road they have chosen
There is evidence that games which have added cash shops onto subscriptions have not seen an increase in content development. There isn't any evidence showing any of those games increasing content.
It doesn't matter why the declines happened or how they happened, just that they did. That alone disproves any speculations that RMT revenue might increase content development. It is possible that they could increase content development, but to date there is no evidence to show they have.
Well, then you just have to make some kind of chart for all the stuff Wow patched in from start, or one for dungeons and zones, another one for fixes, a third for balancing and so on.
To me it seems exactly the same as before counting that a new expansion is 2 months away, no more and no less. And since you are saying that it have changed it should really be you that proves it has changed.
I know with 100% that EQ2 have done no changes, they are making exactly as many large patches and small patches between the expansions now as they did before.
Of course you can argue and say that Blizzard would otherwise cut down on the content since they are obviously putting Kaplan and the rest of their best people on Blizzards next MMO but they still have enough players to keep going with the updates, in fact they should work even harder now if they want to get old player back (and staying) with CATA.
But I am too lazy myself to actually count the number of patches and the content in them for Wow, something I did for EQ2 since we discussed when the next expansion will come out and how many patches more it would be before this late spring, we are exactly on that track now still.
I think that is more because Blizzard are moving more people to D# and the next MMO, or at least more experienced people. It is really logical, Wow is the present for Blizz but D3 and the next MMO is the future, if they mess the next MMO up it would cost them dearly.
But eventual profit from the RMT probably go to that as well and not back to Wow.