November of 2005 is the day I grew to despise SOE. Thats when they implemented the NGE to Star Wars Galaxies which destroyed a once amazing game and its even more amazing community. My newest blog entry ( link in my signature ) I write about those good times I had with my old SWG friends. But me personally do not trust SOE even after all these years later. They did not listen to their community and destroyed what wasnt broken. With the new DC Universe coming out can SOE be trusted with big titles such as that? Please no flaming or nasty comments keep it civil.
Seriousl SOE flamers... LET THE NGE GO
That seems to be the whole sum of most peoples bitching about them.
Most of the rest of the people out there just jump on the bandwagon "oh we hate SOE"! Down with the corporate giant!
They're quite sucessful and deliver plenty of good products.
And guess what? Star Wars is still going despite all the bitching that people want to do.
Simple no. LOL at people claiming Soe learned from the NGE they didn't. Take Everquest 2, Vanguard both got dumbed down in order to appeal to a more stupid crowd, which resulted in pissed off veterans and declining numbers.
On top of that they've introduced cashed shops in p2p games called "station cash" so no way I'll trust this company ever again. Its easy if a game has the blatant SoE logo on it, stay the hell away from it!
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
November of 2005 is the day I grew to despise SOE. Thats when they implemented the NGE to Star Wars Galaxies which destroyed a once amazing game and its even more amazing community. My newest blog entry ( link in my signature ) I write about those good times I had with my old SWG friends. But me personally do not trust SOE even after all these years later. They did not listen to their community and destroyed what wasnt broken. With the new DC Universe coming out can SOE be trusted with big titles such as that? Please no flaming or nasty comments keep it civil.
Seriousl SOE flamers... LET THE NGE GO
That seems to be the whole sum of most peoples bitching about them.
Most of the rest of the people out there just jump on the bandwagon "oh we hate SOE"! Down with the corporate giant!
They're quite sucessful and deliver plenty of good products.
And guess what? Star Wars is still going despite all the bitching that people want to do.
Time to move on.
When you don't have much of a life to begin with, trivial matters like the NGE become absolutely life altering.
I just wish that SOE would put more developer muscle behind the projects post-release. They mostly do very good work but fall pretty hard when it comes to support after release.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Originally posted by evianwater Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by vajrav
I've never been directly burned by them, but from what I hear, old school SWG is the kind of MMO I'd be playing nowadays. The old features sound very appealing, specially in the crafting department, but I can't experience them anymore. Shame.
I feel much the same. The only question I have is: With everyone who loved old SWG making thread after thread about how much they miss it, and with so many of us who didn't get to play it but who love crafting and unusual ways to progress, why hasn't a new MMO with complex and in depth crafting and neat professions like entertainers arisen from the ashes to snap up all those subs? Are we really so few in number? It doesn't seem so, from this site. What people fail to realize is that SWG maxed out at like 300k subs...the game didn't do nearly as well as nostalgia makes people think. It had a dire lack of content, especially at high end, there were constant balance problems. Was it a fun game ? Yes, I loved it, and I miss it. But that format, was never as succesfull as EQ's or WoW's in the first place. Games that have tried to replicate it, MO, DF. Are underfunded and craptastic.
What people also fail to realise is that SWG might indeed have bene broken but SOE, with incredible stupidity, invested no time, capital and resources in the four key areas where work was needed:
Instead SOEs' resources were pumped into the creation of crap expansions that you had to buy - because Smed thought the future of MMOs came from the revenues of box sales not from subscriptions. Three expansions inside two years.
But these new expansions just placed ever more rickety structures on foundations of sand. With the NGE, everything collapsed. Nobody would buy an SWG expansion now.
Meanwhile, WOW did invest heavily in game maintenance and management. It created a strong game foundation which in turn has led to huge subscription numbers. They waited to bring out their expansion boxes - three in six years. And sales have been massive.
If SOE had treated SWG with the same longterm care as Blizzard instead of Smedley's insanely shortterm MBA 'churn and burn' approach, I believe that SWG would now have a sob base in the millions.
Considering the head developer for NGE was summarily fired and Smedley has publically admitted it was a mistake (this was around the release of Vanguard, which he said they had learned not to do that with another game.) As for EQ2 Extended..it doesn't affect the sub game eq2 at all... not sure how that can be mentioned in the same sentence as NGE.
The point?
Smedley had to throw someone under the bus. You think the guy who thought up the NGE did it all on his own and without running it by a whole lot of people before getting it approved?
Who cares if he admitted it was a mistake....it was probably a tactical PR move anyways.
The point I think these companies are missing, if you take care of your customers, they take care of you. If you have employees, the same idea holds true, take care of them and they will take care of you.
Its a simple concept that cant be quantified by the best accountant.
Forgive what may be a "noob" question, but I literally had almost "no" exposure to SOE games until DCU Online was annonced, thus, what did/does the OP mean by the acronym "NGE" in the original post?
Forgive what may be a "noob" question, but I literally had almost "no" exposure to SOE games until DCU Online was annonced, thus, what did/does the OP mean by the acronym "NGE" in the original post?
NGE = New Game Enhancements
An update to Star Wars Galaxies that was felt by many to have broken the game.
The following is from a WIKI
Another major update called the "New Game Enhancements" (abbreviated as NGE) was implemented on 15 November 2005, kept secret from the players until 24 hours upon release, and created huge demonstrations in game from the majority of players, and became available in retail on 22 November 2005 as the Star Wars Galaxies: Starter Kit.[39] Major changes included the reduction and simplification of professions, simplification of gameplay mechanics, and Jedi becoming a starting profession. Media outlets such as CBS News, New York Times, New York Post and Wired Magazine criticized the reduced depth and complexity of the game.[40][41][42][43][44], but John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment, defended the decision claiming it necessary to revamp the game in order to reverse the deterioration they were seeing in the subscriber base.[45] SOE offered refunds on the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion due to it being released two days before the NGE was implemented.[46] The development team affirmed this was their desired direction for the game and that they would modify parameters to address player's concerns.[47] Features such as expertise trees were later added to the game to add complexity and differentiation to characters. After the announcement that SOE had acquired the game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Smedley addressed that game's players about the perceived threat of major changes to the game:
We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.
—John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment[48]
Name me one MMO in which at least some portion of the playerbase doesn't feel cheated by the developer.
This thread isn't about rationalizing the actions of one company by painting the entire industry with broad brush strokes to make all companies act in the same manner.
Can SOE be trusted based on the actions of SOE, regardless of what other companies have done?
I think the actions and history of this company leave no choice but to answer no. For example, if John Smedley (or some other developer) makes a promise like "The combat upgrade is here to stay", "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." or maybe that soe wasn't planning on changing the business model of eq2... would you find those statements trustworthy?
Considering the head developer for NGE was summarily fired and Smedley has publically admitted it was a mistake (this was around the release of Vanguard, which he said they had learned not to do that with another game.) As for EQ2 Extended..it doesn't affect the sub game eq2 at all... not sure how that can be mentioned in the same sentence as NGE.
On an interesting side-note, what blizzard is doing with WoW is comparable to NGE, it's going to be interesting to see what happens. Rebuilding classes, changing the talent system, changing the way encounters work and the basic general principles of the game. It's going to be a fun expiriment to watch, see if it crashes and burns or if it's a success.
Who did soe fire over the NGE? As for the public statement of their mistake, it was nothing more than lip service. The only think soe considered a mistake about the nge was the results. The "mistake" was that it didn't work, not that they didn't listen to their playerbase. Just like they didn't listen to them about station cash or eq2x. Both designed in secret, without asking for input from their players and rushed onto the servers against the protests of their players. Obviously they were not very sincere about their "mistake" and have not really learned much from their history.
Cataclysm is no where near the level of what the nge changes were. My paladin will still play almost exactly like he does today. All of the items I have will still work exactly like they do. The game will not suffer massive lag and instability, because the developers speed up the gameplay 500% to make it look "actiony and fast paced". Some old zones will be revamped just like many other games have done over the years dating all the way back to asherons call.
It really is a very stupid comparison on so many levels.
November of 2005 is the day I grew to despise SOE. Thats when they implemented the NGE to Star Wars Galaxies which destroyed a once amazing game and its even more amazing community. My newest blog entry ( link in my signature ) I write about those good times I had with my old SWG friends. But me personally do not trust SOE even after all these years later. They did not listen to their community and destroyed what wasnt broken. With the new DC Universe coming out can SOE be trusted with big titles such as that? Please no flaming or nasty comments keep it civil.
I know SOE gained a few enemies for SWG, and also for how they progressed EQ.
But there is also the fact that, EQ still runs today with a decent active playerbase ( im still subbed myself ) EQ2 is also a solid title of thiers and again a decent playerbase, with plenty of support....i think they also recently had an exp? Then there is Vanguard, probably one of the most underrated games out there....ok not much of a userbase and a bad start, but a good game neverless.
Soe have had a few bad moments, but overall they seem to have had more "ups" than "downs" it's just a company with many different departments after all so me....i would give them a chance and judge every product as it stands alone!
Do we all boycott Blizzard on this site? as 90% of the users here seem to despise wow and all it stands for
Originally posted by evianwater Ugh..all this dogging on SOE... It's not like SOE was like "DUUUUUDE...ya know what ? Let's spend an incredible amount of money and time to screw our customer base which is actually our source of income."
10.10.11 swg EmpireDivided 26June03, NewGameEnhancement Nov 2005, Verant-beta ap May02 beta Jul02 1char/server, CombatUpgrade 27Apr05 sub cancels increase, closed 12of25 servers 16Sept-15Oct09, jedi scam: req 4 unk master lvl professions, holocrons IDed rec class sequence 4to7 needed revealed 2to4, 1st unlock 2 or 7Nov03, perm death after 3rd death (skill loss Jan04); JumptoLightspeed exp 27Oct04 space combat, ep3RageoftheWookiees 5May05 (play on sw3RevengeoftheSith 19May05); 3rd exp swgTrialsofObi-Wan 1Nov05 (play on revSith dvd) devs renig on char development users demand money back-- enmass abandonment of swg with nge 2d later; claims Aug05 +1M copies sold by early 06 ~10K playing fri night;
Comments
Seriousl SOE flamers... LET THE NGE GO
That seems to be the whole sum of most peoples bitching about them.
Most of the rest of the people out there just jump on the bandwagon "oh we hate SOE"! Down with the corporate giant!
They're quite sucessful and deliver plenty of good products.
And guess what? Star Wars is still going despite all the bitching that people want to do.
Time to move on.
Simple no. LOL at people claiming Soe learned from the NGE they didn't. Take Everquest 2, Vanguard both got dumbed down in order to appeal to a more stupid crowd, which resulted in pissed off veterans and declining numbers.
On top of that they've introduced cashed shops in p2p games called "station cash" so no way I'll trust this company ever again. Its easy if a game has the blatant SoE logo on it, stay the hell away from it!
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
When you don't have much of a life to begin with, trivial matters like the NGE become absolutely life altering.
No
In one word no
In two words Hell no
I just wish that SOE would put more developer muscle behind the projects post-release. They mostly do very good work but fall pretty hard when it comes to support after release.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
What people fail to realize is that SWG maxed out at like 300k subs...the game didn't do nearly as well as nostalgia makes people think. It had a dire lack of content, especially at high end, there were constant balance problems. Was it a fun game ? Yes, I loved it, and I miss it. But that format, was never as succesfull as EQ's or WoW's in the first place. Games that have tried to replicate it, MO, DF. Are underfunded and craptastic.
What people also fail to realise is that SWG might indeed have bene broken but SOE, with incredible stupidity, invested no time, capital and resources in the four key areas where work was needed:
Combat balancing
Content insertion
Bug fixing
Marketing
Instead SOEs' resources were pumped into the creation of crap expansions that you had to buy - because Smed thought the future of MMOs came from the revenues of box sales not from subscriptions. Three expansions inside two years.
But these new expansions just placed ever more rickety structures on foundations of sand. With the NGE, everything collapsed. Nobody would buy an SWG expansion now.
Meanwhile, WOW did invest heavily in game maintenance and management. It created a strong game foundation which in turn has led to huge subscription numbers. They waited to bring out their expansion boxes - three in six years. And sales have been massive.
If SOE had treated SWG with the same longterm care as Blizzard instead of Smedley's insanely shortterm MBA 'churn and burn' approach, I believe that SWG would now have a sob base in the millions.
The point?
Smedley had to throw someone under the bus. You think the guy who thought up the NGE did it all on his own and without running it by a whole lot of people before getting it approved?
Who cares if he admitted it was a mistake....it was probably a tactical PR move anyways.
The point I think these companies are missing, if you take care of your customers, they take care of you. If you have employees, the same idea holds true, take care of them and they will take care of you.
Its a simple concept that cant be quantified by the best accountant.
Forgive what may be a "noob" question, but I literally had almost "no" exposure to SOE games until DCU Online was annonced, thus, what did/does the OP mean by the acronym "NGE" in the original post?
NGE = New Game Enhancements
An update to Star Wars Galaxies that was felt by many to have broken the game.
The following is from a WIKI
Another major update called the "New Game Enhancements" (abbreviated as NGE) was implemented on 15 November 2005, kept secret from the players until 24 hours upon release, and created huge demonstrations in game from the majority of players, and became available in retail on 22 November 2005 as the Star Wars Galaxies: Starter Kit.[39] Major changes included the reduction and simplification of professions, simplification of gameplay mechanics, and Jedi becoming a starting profession. Media outlets such as CBS News, New York Times, New York Post and Wired Magazine criticized the reduced depth and complexity of the game.[40][41][42][43][44], but John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment, defended the decision claiming it necessary to revamp the game in order to reverse the deterioration they were seeing in the subscriber base.[45] SOE offered refunds on the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion due to it being released two days before the NGE was implemented.[46] The development team affirmed this was their desired direction for the game and that they would modify parameters to address player's concerns.[47] Features such as expertise trees were later added to the game to add complexity and differentiation to characters. After the announcement that SOE had acquired the game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Smedley addressed that game's players about the perceived threat of major changes to the game:
This thread isn't about rationalizing the actions of one company by painting the entire industry with broad brush strokes to make all companies act in the same manner.
Can SOE be trusted based on the actions of SOE, regardless of what other companies have done?
I think the actions and history of this company leave no choice but to answer no. For example, if John Smedley (or some other developer) makes a promise like "The combat upgrade is here to stay", "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." or maybe that soe wasn't planning on changing the business model of eq2... would you find those statements trustworthy?
Just for example.
Who did soe fire over the NGE? As for the public statement of their mistake, it was nothing more than lip service. The only think soe considered a mistake about the nge was the results. The "mistake" was that it didn't work, not that they didn't listen to their playerbase. Just like they didn't listen to them about station cash or eq2x. Both designed in secret, without asking for input from their players and rushed onto the servers against the protests of their players. Obviously they were not very sincere about their "mistake" and have not really learned much from their history.
Cataclysm is no where near the level of what the nge changes were. My paladin will still play almost exactly like he does today. All of the items I have will still work exactly like they do. The game will not suffer massive lag and instability, because the developers speed up the gameplay 500% to make it look "actiony and fast paced". Some old zones will be revamped just like many other games have done over the years dating all the way back to asherons call.
It really is a very stupid comparison on so many levels.
HELL NO look at SWG they screwed that up big time Game was awesome Pre-CU cant trust a company that dont listen to there community
I would trust Smed long before I would trust someone that feels the need to whine daily/weekly about changes, in a game, for 5 yrs.
The worst Smed is going to do is shut down/change/charge more for game.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I know SOE gained a few enemies for SWG, and also for how they progressed EQ.
But there is also the fact that, EQ still runs today with a decent active playerbase ( im still subbed myself ) EQ2 is also a solid title of thiers and again a decent playerbase, with plenty of support....i think they also recently had an exp? Then there is Vanguard, probably one of the most underrated games out there....ok not much of a userbase and a bad start, but a good game neverless.
Soe have had a few bad moments, but overall they seem to have had more "ups" than "downs" it's just a company with many different departments after all
so me....i would give them a chance and judge every product as it stands alone!
Do we all boycott Blizzard on this site? as 90% of the users here seem to despise wow and all it stands for
10.10.11
swg EmpireDivided 26June03, NewGameEnhancement Nov 2005, Verant-beta ap May02 beta Jul02 1char/server, CombatUpgrade 27Apr05 sub cancels increase, closed 12of25 servers 16Sept-15Oct09,
jedi scam: req 4 unk master lvl professions, holocrons IDed rec class sequence 4to7 needed revealed 2to4, 1st unlock 2 or 7Nov03, perm death after 3rd death (skill loss Jan04); JumptoLightspeed exp 27Oct04 space combat,
ep3RageoftheWookiees 5May05 (play on sw3RevengeoftheSith 19May05); 3rd exp swgTrialsofObi-Wan 1Nov05 (play on revSith dvd) devs renig on char development users demand money back-- enmass abandonment of swg with nge 2d later;
claims Aug05 +1M copies sold by early 06 ~10K playing fri night;
Why would you trust a corporation?
Can any company whose main purpose is to make a profit be trusted?