Ok here's the deal if you never experienced Swg when it was a sandbox the current game is average. If you're a complete star wars fan it's above average. I personally put current Swg on the same level as eq2, vanguard, war, aoc, aion and the rest of the average wow style games.
SWG was never and has never been a sandbox it has always been EQ in space.
Take it that you never played SWG then. It was sandbox pre-NGE. Even more so pre-CU, given it was with the CU that they started added themepark elements on top. Only to remove most of the sandbox mechanics with the NGE.
Sai Cho or whatever the saber strike is 2nd from the highest has hands down the best animation especially with a dual blade lightsaber and on Bria I don't have a problem with the animations much. What killed the game was player cities which took away the key social aspect of the game. Back in the days when SWG first went live you could cruise on over to Theed and chill in the cantina with tons of people. You could go to the starport and mingle with people waiting for the transport. Then player cities showed up and the npc cities died.
for me it was never about the game design as it was $oe flat out telling bald face lies denying the launch or existence of the nge up untill the day it was released. I would have been more receptive to it then. but nge sucked anyways so what ever. Still love the game just won't pay to play it.
for me it was never about the game design as it was $oe flat out telling bald face lies denying the launch or existence of the nge up untill the day it was released. I would have been more receptive to it then. but nge sucked anyways so what ever. Still love the game just won't pay to play it.
Completely off topic, but I had to see if it was 'bold faced' or 'bald face' lies...turns out, it's both.
The original term seems to have been bald-faced (bare-faced) and refers to a face without whiskers. Beards were commonly worn by businessmen in the 18th and 19th century as an attempt to mask facial expressions when making business deals. Thus a bald-faced liar was a very good liar indeed, and was able to lie without the guilt showing on his face.
The more correct term is "bald-faced lie" or "bare-faced lie" (bare is more common in Great Britain). It refers to a "shameless" or "brazen" lie. One where the teller does not attempt to hide his face while telling it.
It's just the last 5 yrs or so that "bold" has come into usage. It refers to typeface. It is used metaphorically in speech. In the same way that a typesetter uses bold face type to highlight specific text and set it apart, a bold face lie stands out in such a way as to not be mistaken for the truth.
The phrase can either be used as bold-faced lie, as in someone with a bold enough face to lie (bold meaning daring, or brazen) or someone bold enough to lie to your face; it can also be used as bald-faced lie, where the older meaning of bald (meaning uncovered or unconcealed) - the more correct usage with this term is bare-faced lie.
for me it was never about the game design as it was $oe flat out telling bald face lies denying the launch or existence of the nge up untill the day it was released. I would have been more receptive to it then. but nge sucked anyways so what ever. Still love the game just won't pay to play it.
Completely off topic, but I had to see if it was 'bold faced' or 'bald face' lies...turns out, it's both.
The original term seems to have been bald-faced (bare-faced) and refers to a face without whiskers. Beards were commonly worn by businessmen in the 18th and 19th century as an attempt to mask facial expressions when making business deals. Thus a bald-faced liar was a very good liar indeed, and was able to lie without the guilt showing on his face.
The more correct term is "bald-faced lie" or "bare-faced lie" (bare is more common in Great Britain). It refers to a "shameless" or "brazen" lie. One where the teller does not attempt to hide his face while telling it.
It's just the last 5 yrs or so that "bold" has come into usage. It refers to typeface. It is used metaphorically in speech. In the same way that a typesetter uses bold face type to highlight specific text and set it apart, a bold face lie stands out in such a way as to not be mistaken for the truth.
The phrase can either be used as bold-faced lie, as in someone with a bold enough face to lie (bold meaning daring, or brazen) or someone bold enough to lie to your face; it can also be used as bald-faced lie, where the older meaning of bald (meaning uncovered or unconcealed) - the more correct usage with this term is bare-faced lie.
This is definitely the most interesting post in this thread, off topic or not.
You should have seen it back in the day TB, Imagine being a crafter and each week new resources would pop up for you to discover. Imagine the older crafters having stockpiles of quality resources and being able to make better weapons than new master crafters. It was awesome, people had reputations on the servers as the best weaponship, the best doctors and best pistoleers. If you wanted an awesome weapon you could fly to a remote planet and try to contact a master weaponsmith and make a deal for a one-of-a-kind weapon. I was making the FG-5 (or something like that) with scopes on them and giving them names like "the eliminator" and only making limited runs of each edition.
Imagine going into a bar and bands were playing, girls were dancing and PLAYERS were talking to each other and having a good time. You went to hunt Krayt Dragons on Tat and stopped off at the doctors office near the starport to get a buff on your way to the desert. If you killed a dragon, you looked for an organic part that could be used in making one of the components of a superior weapon. You could be a Bounty Hunter and actually hunt players in the game. I waited outside a bar for a guy for almost half an hour so I could ambush him and collect the bounty.
On my server (Tarquanis) there were weekly battles between the rebs and empire near bestine between two cities on Saturday night. I often wonder what happend to "TwentyFour" or whatever his name was. He was the guy who organized most of that. You could also train in any skill in the game. I had maxed out bounty hunter and taken a few skills in the pistoleer tree and really liked the build. Only one char per account so very few alts, people had to do business with other people. Back then not many people paid for multiple accounts.
God I loved that game... Right up until the holocron madness started and then everything turned to crap after that.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Pretty sad, my old server Bloodfin died? Are there free server transfers or what?
If you think that is sad, wait until you hear about how server transfers are handled.
Character transfers cost $25 per toon. I have heard that if you need a character transfer from an already closed server, the transfer might be free if you send in a ticket. During the FCTS (Free Character Transfer Service) period, Starsider got the lion's share of transfers, but there were still quite a few that made transfers to alternate servers like Bloodfin. A few servers that should have been closed to begin with, such as Gorath, received few transfers, so there was never any true relief from the low population problems.
Sadly, most of these alternate servers gradually dried up and died as Starsider continued to syphon active players from them via paid transfers and rerolls (not considering the frustrated players that just flat out canceled). There are no further plans for the FCTS nor have there been any plans to merge the dead servers that now exist.
Why didn't this game reach 20 million subs? Maybe the StarWars IP is really only a niche market and we may just find this out with SWTOR.
I don't think this is nearly the case. I am a die-hard SW fan and was accepted to beta 1 and 3 for this game (SWG). I thought the game sucked then.
A) SWG was never received well. It won "coaster of the year" by numerous reviews.
Those that say it was actually a good game were a very small niche...these former players claiming it was the best/perfect sandbox MMO, well they are a very small number. Simple reason the game did not last: bad reviews, poor implementation.
People tend to look back at this game with rose-tinted glasses, but it was never even remotely successful. It was criticized for complexity and lack of content initially, then for the exact opposite after the upgrades. The only thing it had going for it was the Star Wars IP. Sorry, but the studio behind it did a LOUSY job.
Not worth the sub now, not worth it then. EQ was infinitely better. Unless you wanted a cheap ripoff of EQ with Star Wars music.
-----
Yet the Star Wars IP itself is extremely marketable. Look out all the movies, spinoff cartoons, books and toys still selling in stores everywhere. You think these stores keep them in stock just for the hell of it? Think again. It has an extremely strong following. Problem is, since the original KOTOR, there had not been a decent Star Wars game since Tie Fighter before that (and don't say that wasn't received well..if so, look back at history). People lately have been cautious on picking up a new SW game brought by an unknown company with lackluster reviews. We're not talking a third-rate company here. We're talking the Spielberg/Scorsese of videogame companies here. It's Bioware.
Why didn't this game reach 20 million subs? Maybe the StarWars IP is really only a niche market and we may just find this out with SWTOR.
I don't think this is nearly the case. I am a die-hard SW fan and was accepted to beta 1 and 3 for this game (SWG). I thought the game sucked then.
A) SWG was never received well. It won "coaster of the year" by numerous reviews.
Those that say it was actually a good game were a very small niche...these former players claiming it was the best/perfect sandbox MMO, well they are a very small number. Simple reason the game did not last: bad reviews, poor implementation.
People tend to look back at this game with rose-tinted glasses, but it was never even remotely successful. It was criticized for complexity and lack of content initially, then for the exact opposite after the upgrades. The only thing it had going for it was the Star Wars IP. Sorry, but the studio behind it did a LOUSY job.
SWG was the second largest MMO in its prime. Over 350,000 players. Saying it wasn't popular is just untrue as is trying to make it seem it wasn't received well by many. No one is saying it was polished like current mmos, but many loved the game.
Sure the lack of content hurt it (not complexity), but not as much as the broken and unfinished condition the game was in. It was a great design, but poor condition and complete mismanagement by soe ruined it (yes before the NGE or the Combat Upgrade). I would say the game was more cumbersome than it was complex. The UI and broken systems made it hard to play, because they didn't function properly.
I'm not looking at the game with rose colored glasses. It was a busted mess, but soe actually made the game worse with each patch. Either shifting design focus, abandoning plans or simply breaking more than they fixed it really hurt the game and player trust. Especially through all the lies (again prior to the CU-NGE)
Underneath all of that was a very good game that was in desperate need of a real developer willing to fix it.
Just to put things in perspective. SWG was perhaps one of the most broken games I have ever played at release, but look at how many years it retained players despite all the mistakes and bullshit soe put the players through. Now look at any of the other AAA flops that came since then and tell me if any of those games held their population for multiple years or were closing servers within months after release.
I'm willing to bet swg outperformed most games released after it if you compare their first few years in operation. That is saying something considering how small the market was back then.
only thing it had going for it was the Star Wars IP. Sorry, but the studio behind it did a LOUSY job.
SWG was the second largest MMO in its prime. Over 350,000 players. Saying it wasn't popular is just untrue as is trying to make it seem it wasn't received well by many. No one is saying it was polished like current mmos, but many loved the game.
Sure the lack of content hurt it (not complexity), but not as much as the broken and unfinished condition the game was in. It was a great design, but poor condition and complete mismanagement by soe ruined it (yes before the NGE or the Combat Upgrade). I would say the game was more cumbersome than it was complex. The UI and broken systems made it hard to play, because they didn't function properly.
I'm not looking at the game with rose colored glasses. It was a busted mess, but soe actually made the game worse with each patch. Either shifting design focus, abandoning plans or simply breaking more than they fixed it really hurt the game and player trust. Especially through all the lies (again prior to the CU-NGE)
Underneath all of that was a very good game that was in desperate need of a real developer willing to fix it.
Just to put things in perspective. SWG was perhaps one of the most broken games I have ever played at release, but look at how many years it retained players despite all the mistakes and bullshit soe put the players through. Now look at any of the other AAA flops that came since then and tell me if any of those games held their population for multiple years or were closing servers within months after release.
I'm willing to bet swg outperformed most games released after it if you compare their first few years in operation. That is saying something considering how small the market was back then.
Indeed. My guildies and I stuck it out until the NGE killed the games population. The game was bug ridden, clunky, and full of all sorts of other errors, but people kept playing it.
I honestly think SWG was the game that killed MMO players patience. If it doesn't launch well, and they can't fix the bugs in the first 6 months people ditch.
Comments
Game was great till the 30s for me; it is just the same thing over and over and over again.
got to this base and kill everyone inside it...also all the bases look the same.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
Take it that you never played SWG then. It was sandbox pre-NGE. Even more so pre-CU, given it was with the CU that they started added themepark elements on top. Only to remove most of the sandbox mechanics with the NGE.
Sai Cho or whatever the saber strike is 2nd from the highest has hands down the best animation especially with a dual blade lightsaber and on Bria I don't have a problem with the animations much. What killed the game was player cities which took away the key social aspect of the game. Back in the days when SWG first went live you could cruise on over to Theed and chill in the cantina with tons of people. You could go to the starport and mingle with people waiting for the transport. Then player cities showed up and the npc cities died.
for me it was never about the game design as it was $oe flat out telling bald face lies denying the launch or existence of the nge up untill the day it was released. I would have been more receptive to it then. but nge sucked anyways so what ever. Still love the game just won't pay to play it.
Completely off topic, but I had to see if it was 'bold faced' or 'bald face' lies...turns out, it's both.
(link)
The original term seems to have been bald-faced (bare-faced) and refers to a face without whiskers. Beards were commonly worn by businessmen in the 18th and 19th century as an attempt to mask facial expressions when making business deals. Thus a bald-faced liar was a very good liar indeed, and was able to lie without the guilt showing on his face.
The more correct term is "bald-faced lie" or "bare-faced lie" (bare is more common in Great Britain). It refers to a "shameless" or "brazen" lie. One where the teller does not attempt to hide his face while telling it.
It's just the last 5 yrs or so that "bold" has come into usage. It refers to typeface. It is used metaphorically in speech. In the same way that a typesetter uses bold face type to highlight specific text and set it apart, a bold face lie stands out in such a way as to not be mistaken for the truth.
The phrase can either be used as bold-faced lie, as in someone with a bold enough face to lie (bold meaning daring, or brazen) or someone bold enough to lie to your face; it can also be used as bald-faced lie, where the older meaning of bald (meaning uncovered or unconcealed) - the more correct usage with this term is bare-faced lie.
This is definitely the most interesting post in this thread, off topic or not.
You should have seen it back in the day TB, Imagine being a crafter and each week new resources would pop up for you to discover. Imagine the older crafters having stockpiles of quality resources and being able to make better weapons than new master crafters. It was awesome, people had reputations on the servers as the best weaponship, the best doctors and best pistoleers. If you wanted an awesome weapon you could fly to a remote planet and try to contact a master weaponsmith and make a deal for a one-of-a-kind weapon. I was making the FG-5 (or something like that) with scopes on them and giving them names like "the eliminator" and only making limited runs of each edition.
Imagine going into a bar and bands were playing, girls were dancing and PLAYERS were talking to each other and having a good time. You went to hunt Krayt Dragons on Tat and stopped off at the doctors office near the starport to get a buff on your way to the desert. If you killed a dragon, you looked for an organic part that could be used in making one of the components of a superior weapon. You could be a Bounty Hunter and actually hunt players in the game. I waited outside a bar for a guy for almost half an hour so I could ambush him and collect the bounty.
On my server (Tarquanis) there were weekly battles between the rebs and empire near bestine between two cities on Saturday night. I often wonder what happend to "TwentyFour" or whatever his name was. He was the guy who organized most of that. You could also train in any skill in the game. I had maxed out bounty hunter and taken a few skills in the pistoleer tree and really liked the build. Only one char per account so very few alts, people had to do business with other people. Back then not many people paid for multiple accounts.
God I loved that game... Right up until the holocron madness started and then everything turned to crap after that.
Pretty sad, my old server Bloodfin died? Are there free server transfers or what?
If you think that is sad, wait until you hear about how server transfers are handled.
Character transfers cost $25 per toon. I have heard that if you need a character transfer from an already closed server, the transfer might be free if you send in a ticket. During the FCTS (Free Character Transfer Service) period, Starsider got the lion's share of transfers, but there were still quite a few that made transfers to alternate servers like Bloodfin. A few servers that should have been closed to begin with, such as Gorath, received few transfers, so there was never any true relief from the low population problems.
Sadly, most of these alternate servers gradually dried up and died as Starsider continued to syphon active players from them via paid transfers and rerolls (not considering the frustrated players that just flat out canceled). There are no further plans for the FCTS nor have there been any plans to merge the dead servers that now exist.
I don't think this is nearly the case. I am a die-hard SW fan and was accepted to beta 1 and 3 for this game (SWG). I thought the game sucked then.
A) SWG was never received well. It won "coaster of the year" by numerous reviews.
People tend to look back at this game with rose-tinted glasses, but it was never even remotely successful. It was criticized for complexity and lack of content initially, then for the exact opposite after the upgrades. The only thing it had going for it was the Star Wars IP. Sorry, but the studio behind it did a LOUSY job.
Not worth the sub now, not worth it then. EQ was infinitely better. Unless you wanted a cheap ripoff of EQ with Star Wars music.
-----
Yet the Star Wars IP itself is extremely marketable. Look out all the movies, spinoff cartoons, books and toys still selling in stores everywhere. You think these stores keep them in stock just for the hell of it? Think again. It has an extremely strong following. Problem is, since the original KOTOR, there had not been a decent Star Wars game since Tie Fighter before that (and don't say that wasn't received well..if so, look back at history). People lately have been cautious on picking up a new SW game brought by an unknown company with lackluster reviews. We're not talking a third-rate company here. We're talking the Spielberg/Scorsese of videogame companies here. It's Bioware.
SWG was the second largest MMO in its prime. Over 350,000 players. Saying it wasn't popular is just untrue as is trying to make it seem it wasn't received well by many. No one is saying it was polished like current mmos, but many loved the game.
Sure the lack of content hurt it (not complexity), but not as much as the broken and unfinished condition the game was in. It was a great design, but poor condition and complete mismanagement by soe ruined it (yes before the NGE or the Combat Upgrade). I would say the game was more cumbersome than it was complex. The UI and broken systems made it hard to play, because they didn't function properly.
I'm not looking at the game with rose colored glasses. It was a busted mess, but soe actually made the game worse with each patch. Either shifting design focus, abandoning plans or simply breaking more than they fixed it really hurt the game and player trust. Especially through all the lies (again prior to the CU-NGE)
Underneath all of that was a very good game that was in desperate need of a real developer willing to fix it.
Just to put things in perspective. SWG was perhaps one of the most broken games I have ever played at release, but look at how many years it retained players despite all the mistakes and bullshit soe put the players through. Now look at any of the other AAA flops that came since then and tell me if any of those games held their population for multiple years or were closing servers within months after release.
I'm willing to bet swg outperformed most games released after it if you compare their first few years in operation. That is saying something considering how small the market was back then.
Pre-cu was a bug ridden mess and it still managed to be one of the best mmorpgs ever made. Thats all i have to say about that /gump
No.
All your bases are belong to us!
All your bases are belong to us!
thats what happens when you take a game with no levels and try to wow-ify it. Such a fail on soe and la.
theres was sth I remember,
"?ts over Jim its over"
Indeed. My guildies and I stuck it out until the NGE killed the games population. The game was bug ridden, clunky, and full of all sorts of other errors, but people kept playing it.
I honestly think SWG was the game that killed MMO players patience. If it doesn't launch well, and they can't fix the bugs in the first 6 months people ditch.