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Well this is depressing.

124

Comments

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230

    Originally posted by Rockgod99

    Noone has any faith huh? All of a sudden CCP is a bunch of stupid bastards willing to destroy their game with cash shop that sells op ships and modules that would totally destroy not only the economy but unbalance everything! Listen to yourselves this is CCP... These guys have delievered one of the greatest sandbox experiences the last seven years! With their plex system they've all but destroyed the gold sellers market I'n eve, something that no other mmo can do. They run one if the most advanced gaming servers and have a freaking developmental blueprint for eve for the next 15 years while developing two other mmos!!! With all that you think they will just destroy everything with a damn Cash shop???!? Really?

    Yeah its CCP alright. Nothing makes me expect anything better. If WoD is the first MMO what is the second one? -Dust will never be an MMO. What has made you worship to them so?

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • Not going to work in EVE..as long as players have some sort of control, which they currently do.  Who in their right mind is going to buy "Tiger Stripe Ship Paint Kit" and apply it to their ship if word gets out that a majority of the fan base doesn't like it. You might as well just roll a character and name it 'Killmeplease'.  Wardecs will break out like crazy over this stuff.

    Then again....wardecs will break out over this stuff.

    Cool, I'm for it.  Kind of a weird pseudo-rascism against those that buy.  You watch, it'll happen.

  • DoktorTeufelDoktorTeufel Member UncommonPosts: 413

    1.) We're never going to introduce micro-transactions, ever.


    2.) We're introducing micro-transactions, but only for vanity items.


    3.) Well, maybe we'll add a few items that offer small in-game advantages.


    4.) Perhaps we'll add a few more items with better in-game advantages.


    Two Years Later....


    5.) You can't compete in the game at all without spraying cash at the developers (on top of the subscription fee, naturally).

    Currently Playing: EVE Online
    Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR

  • NeerDoWellNeerDoWell Member Posts: 184

    The end is near, look for salvation! image

    image
    “If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1000 MPG” - Bill Gates

  • NeerDoWellNeerDoWell Member Posts: 184

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

    1.) We're never going to introduce micro-transactions, ever.



    2.) We're introducing micro-transactions, but only for vanity items.



    3.) Well, maybe we'll add a few items that offer small in-game advantages.



    4.) Perhaps we'll add a few more items with better in-game advantages.



    Two Years Later....



    5.) You can't compete in the game at all without spraying cash at the developers (on top of the subscription fee, naturally).

    Well, a lot of people I play with are dependent on PLEXs to continue their subs, so introducing pay to win in this game seems like a bad plan from my POV.

    image
    “If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1000 MPG” - Bill Gates

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,972

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

    1.) We're never going to introduce micro-transactions, ever.



    2.) We're introducing micro-transactions, but only for vanity items.



    3.) Well, maybe we'll add a few items that offer small in-game advantages.



    4.) Perhaps we'll add a few more items with better in-game advantages.



    Two Years Later....



    5.) You can't compete in the game at all without spraying cash at the developers (on top of the subscription fee, naturally).

    In a nutshell, this is why complacency can be very deadly. Waiting it out until they cross the line is not the right thing to do if you love this game.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,765

    Originally posted by DevilXaphan

    Some of you guys are worried about something that may not even affect gameplay when it comes out, when it does then you should voice your opinion to CCP.

    Agreed. 

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640
    Originally posted by Cecropia


    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

    1.) We're never going to introduce micro-transactions, ever.


    2.) We're introducing micro-transactions, but only for vanity items.


    3.) Well, maybe we'll add a few items that offer small in-game advantages.


    4.) Perhaps we'll add a few more items with better in-game advantages.


    Two Years Later....


    5.) You can't compete in the game at all without spraying cash at the developers (on top of the subscription fee, naturally).

    In a nutshell, this is why complacency can be very deadly. Waiting it out until they cross the line is not the right thing to do if you love this game.

     

    I've already posted I'n the official forums that I would leave if CCP ever offered items directly from a cash shop without the ability to also buy them In game with isk. I've voiced my opinion I don't need to post a constant doom and gloom campaign like everyone else on here.

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • TheHatterTheHatter Member Posts: 2,547

    Originally posted by Nussbaum

    Originally posted by TheHatter

    Shorter Post, maybe I'll get a reply this time.

     

    To those of you who are against the PLEX for Remap.

    Can any of you explain to me why this is any less balancing than a PVP char who can afford to have +5s stuck in at all times?

    A full head of +5s, is around 700 to 800mil, take out Charm and you're still looking at 600-700mil. An average heavy PVP player, who plays at least 12hrs a week, is going to get podded around once a month (sometimes more, sometimes less, once a month is a safe bet). That's 700mil per month. A remap would need to be much less frequent than that, and is alot cheaper. 

    If anything, it will be a better balance between those who can afford +5s and those who can't. At least people like me who can't afford +5s in my PVP JCs, won't be completely lost. 

     

    My problem with selling PLEXs for remap is that it keeps an idiotic game mechanic alive. In  games attributes normaly give you modifiers, like dodge and hitchance. In EVE the only thing they're good for is training speed.  Most advanced players will always have either perception/willpower or int/mem maxed. Which means attributes are just something meaningless, and giving you more remaps per year just makes attributes even more meaningless. What they should do is get rid of attributes all together. But with that change they're not going to because they can make money of it. And then we will always be stuck with this needless and artificial game mechanic.

    lol I completely agree with you. 

    But, they're there and they're pretty interwoven into the entire game as it is. To get rid of attributes all together, would be a massive undertaking. 

    At least they haven't deviated away from getting rid of Learning Skills. Attributes may be stupid, but Learning Skills are stupidity *5^2. 

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

    1.) We're never going to introduce micro-transactions, ever.



    2.) We're introducing micro-transactions, but only for vanity items.



    3.) Well, maybe we'll add a few items that offer small in-game advantages.



    4.) Perhaps we'll add a few more items with better in-game advantages.



    Two Years Later....



    5.) You can't compete in the game at all without spraying cash at the developers (on top of the subscription fee, naturally).

    while you're looking into the future, you think you can get me the powerball numbers for the lottery as well? It amazes me that people actually think this, like i said before it isn't in the strictest form of the word; RMT. You can buy remaps with isk as well not just $$$. I agree on the fact that any unbalancing RMT would definetly make me quit, but this post is just silly. I think i'll start getting a little scared once they do actually implement some ACTUAL RMT, but atm the worst part about this is what someone else said, it devalues attributes.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • DoktorTeufelDoktorTeufel Member UncommonPosts: 413



    Originally posted by tvalentine

    while you're looking into the future, you think you can get me the powerball numbers for the lottery as well? It amazes me that people actually think this, like i said before it isn't in the strictest form of the word; RMT. You can buy remaps with isk as well not just $$$. I agree on the fact that any unbalancing RMT would definetly make me quit, but this post is just silly. I think i'll start getting a little scared once they do actually implement some ACTUAL RMT, but atm the worst part about this is what someone else said, it devalues attributes.


    I don't have to be an astrologer to recognize a slippery slope when I see one, particularly when there are numerous examples of exactly what I've described in the industry.


    And where did you get the idea that this is all JUST about PLEX for remaps? It isn't just about PLEX for remaps. If you've been reading this thread at all, you should know that the developers are discussing micro-transactions that go above and beyond PLEX for remaps. Read the quote I posted.

    Currently Playing: EVE Online
    Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

     






    Originally posted by tvalentine



    while you're looking into the future, you think you can get me the powerball numbers for the lottery as well? It amazes me that people actually think this, like i said before it isn't in the strictest form of the word; RMT. You can buy remaps with isk as well not just $$$. I agree on the fact that any unbalancing RMT would definetly make me quit, but this post is just silly. I think i'll start getting a little scared once they do actually implement some ACTUAL RMT, but atm the worst part about this is what someone else said, it devalues attributes.





    I don't have to be an astrologer to recognize a slippery slope when I see one, particularly when there are numerous examples of exactly what I've described in the industry.



    And where did you get the idea that this is all JUST about PLEX for remaps? It isn't just about PLEX for remaps. If you've been reading this thread at all, you should know that the developers are discussing micro-transactions that go above and beyond PLEX for remaps. Read the quote I posted.

     

    Name 3 mmo companies that have "gone down a slippery slope" before. I'll give you one and thats SOE. But i'm sure even you can agree the ... management quality of their games compared to CCP is much different.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • ComnitusComnitus Member Posts: 2,462

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

    The biggest problem I have with all of this is the fact that a CCP developer wrote this sentence, word for word:



    We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE.



    I didn't add the underlining or bold the text. He added that himself, for emphasis. And now we find out that CCP is quite deliberately planning to go microtransaction with EVE — not simply considering it, but making distinct plans and explaining their justifications.



    This means that they are liars. Worse, CCP constantly makes promises to its core player base about their principles — keeping EVE true to its roots, always having one server cluster, etc. Clearly this is a load of garbage, and they'll backpedal on any of these claims at any time.

    Perhaps you'll realize that people make and change plans all the time. "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE... (at this time)." That's the part you're supposed to understand without the guy having to tell you straight up, but since you can't do that, I've pointed it out for you. Companies change their minds. If it was something along the lines of "We will never have microstransactions in EVE", your claim would have some validity. Even then, they could still do whatever they wanted.

    And "slippery slope" is the name of a logical fallacy. Go figure, right? Companies would have to be relatively equal if that argument is going to work, and I think we can agree that CCP isn't like "mainstream" MMO developers. "They're an MMO company" isn't quite enough in this case.

    image

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    I give up.

    You guys wanna go all doom and gloom over this fine...

    Remember you did the same bullshit a couple months ago.

    What happened? None of you left, everything was fine.

    You guys cry about everything. From Ghost training to speed nerfs to the sov revamp to incarna and now Plex for attribute revamps.

    I honestly think you guys are just bored and need something to bitch about to occupy your time.

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • yaminsuxyaminsux Member UncommonPosts: 973

    Originally posted by TheHatter

    Originally posted by Nussbaum


    Originally posted by TheHatter

    Shorter Post, maybe I'll get a reply this time.

     

    To those of you who are against the PLEX for Remap.

    Can any of you explain to me why this is any less balancing than a PVP char who can afford to have +5s stuck in at all times?

    A full head of +5s, is around 700 to 800mil, take out Charm and you're still looking at 600-700mil. An average heavy PVP player, who plays at least 12hrs a week, is going to get podded around once a month (sometimes more, sometimes less, once a month is a safe bet). That's 700mil per month. A remap would need to be much less frequent than that, and is alot cheaper. 

    If anything, it will be a better balance between those who can afford +5s and those who can't. At least people like me who can't afford +5s in my PVP JCs, won't be completely lost. 

     

    My problem with selling PLEXs for remap is that it keeps an idiotic game mechanic alive. In  games attributes normaly give you modifiers, like dodge and hitchance. In EVE the only thing they're good for is training speed.  Most advanced players will always have either perception/willpower or int/mem maxed. Which means attributes are just something meaningless, and giving you more remaps per year just makes attributes even more meaningless. What they should do is get rid of attributes all together. But with that change they're not going to because they can make money of it. And then we will always be stuck with this needless and artificial game mechanic.

    lol I completely agree with you. 

    But, they're there and they're pretty interwoven into the entire game as it is. To get rid of attributes all together, would be a massive undertaking. 

    At least they haven't deviated away from getting rid of Learning Skills. Attributes may be stupid, but Learning Skills are stupidity *5^2. 

    Completely agree. Attribute remap is like you said, meaningless atm.

  • DoktorTeufelDoktorTeufel Member UncommonPosts: 413



    Originally posted by Comnitus

    Perhaps you'll realize that people make and change plans all the time. "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE... (at this time)." That's the part you're supposed to understand without the guy having to tell you straight up, but since you can't do that, I've pointed it out for you.



    Actually, I'm well aware that that particular statement leaves the door open for a change of plans somewhere down the line. I didn't need a jackass with a severely overinflated opinion of himself to explain it to me; in fact, I anticipated that someone just like you would dredge it up eventually. I already have a counter-argument prepared. (If you've thought of something, chances are excellent that I have, too — and probably long before you did.)


    Despite the loophole built into that particular statement, the overall sentiment CCP has cultivated for its most devoted player base over the years is assurance that CCP understands old-school gamers — that they wouldn't follow the latest fads, delve into micro-transactions, dumb down the game to attract a wider audience, open a new server cluster, or anything of the sort.


    In other words, they've sworn up and down that they'd never sell out. This has clearly been a lie.


    Ergo, even if you completely disregard that particular statement, I am still right, and you still have a grossly overinflated opinion of yourself. Also, you apparently don't play EVE, or I wouldn't have to be telling you all of this.

    Currently Playing: EVE Online
    Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

    [quote]

    Originally posted by Comnitus



    [b]Perhaps you'll realize that people make and change plans all the time. "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE... (at this time)." That's the part you're supposed to understand without the guy having to tell you straight up, but since you can't do that, I've pointed it out for you.[/quote]



    Actually, I'm well aware that that particular statement leaves the door open for a change of plans somewhere down the line. I didn't need a jackass with a severely overinflated opinion of himself to explain it to me; in fact, I anticipated that someone just like you would dredge it up eventually. I already have a counter-argument prepared. (If you've thought of something, chances are excellent that I have, too — and probably long before you did.)



    Despite the loophole built into that particular statement, the overall sentiment CCP has cultivated for its most devoted player base over the years is assurance that CCP understands old-school gamers — that they wouldn't follow the latest fads, delve into micro-transactions, dumb down the game to attract a wider audience, open a new server cluster, or anything of the sort.



    In other words, they've sworn up and down that they'd never sell out. This has clearly been a lie.



    Ergo, even if you completely disregard that particular statement, I am still right, and you still have a grossly overinflated opinion of yourself.

    CCP sold out? Not many people would agree with you bro.

    I recently checked out the newest Bethesda Blog and they actually name dropped Eve online as one of the most hardcore games ever created. Those guys arent just some meainingless overly negative forum lurker like you bro thats a world class AAA fucking videogame developer.

    If CCP sold out to appeal to the "FAADS" and a wider audience the actual game developers havent noticed and neither have the majority of their players.

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

     






    Originally posted by Comnitus

    Perhaps you'll realize that people make and change plans all the time. "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE... (at this time)." That's the part you're supposed to understand without the guy having to tell you straight up, but since you can't do that, I've pointed it out for you.



     grossly overinflated opinion of yourself. Also, you apparently don't play EVE, or I wouldn't have to be telling you all of this.

    Irony overload

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • DoktorTeufelDoktorTeufel Member UncommonPosts: 413

    No, they haven't sold out yet... well, unless you count devoting significant resources to a console game as selling out.


    However, they're publicly PLANNING to sell out, and citing reasons that sound suspiciously like following the latest fads. Do you understand the definition of "selling out"? An old-school, subscription-based game turning coat and selling virtual items to players is practically the poster boy for selling out, in my opinion.


    If you want to wait until it's too late to complain, feel completely free. I'd rather complain now, along with all the other EVE players vehemently speaking out against PLEX for remaps. And that's just PLEX for remaps — I'd say 90% of the player base would be against a cash shop.


    But that's exactly where this slippery slope leads.

    Currently Playing: EVE Online
    Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR

  • DoktorTeufelDoktorTeufel Member UncommonPosts: 413

    Originally posted by tvalentine

    Irony overload

     

    It's pretty much impossible to out-arrogant me. I recognized the irony as I was writing it.

    Currently Playing: EVE Online
    Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

    No, they haven't sold out yet... well, unless you count devoting significant resources to a console game as selling out.



    However, they're publicly PLANNING to sell out, and citing reasons that sound suspiciously like following the latest fads. Do you understand the definition of "selling out"? An old-school, subscription-based game turning coat and selling virtual items to players is practically the poster boy for selling out, in my opinion.



    If you want to wait until it's too late to complain, feel completely free. I'd rather complain now, along with all the other EVE players vehemently speaking out against PLEX for remaps. And that's just PLEX for remaps — I'd say 90% of the player base would be against a cash shop.



    But that's exactly where this slippery slope leads.

    Dude my favorite rock band of all time is Metallica I know the definition of selling out... sadly.

    Honestly I just dont think CCP would put a cash shop into the game. Like you said players are already going nuts over remaps with plex. CCP isnt a stupid developer.

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • AmbassadorDvinnAmbassadorDvinn Member UncommonPosts: 339

    Originally posted by TheHatter

     

    So?

    You will be able to buy new clothes or paint your ship or something like that? Possibly, even the ability to upload your own skins to the clothes. Those things should really cost real money, as they put a significant performance strain on servers. 

    The idea of being able to remap attributes is freaking amazing. I'm sitting here with 2 chars that still have remaps 3 months out and needed to be remapped 6 months ago.

    And that is why I stopped playing EVE.  God it makes me sick I fell for their character subscription scheme.  Everyone and their mother has a 2nd character.  The fun is gone when the majority of the playerbase has multiple characters playing at the same time.  Just fail already.

    Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.

  • itchmonitchmon Member UncommonPosts: 1,953

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    I am outraged, dammit, I wanted them to start selling automatic "I-win" buttons for  my ship, instead they're going to give us pointless fluff.  image

    (how else am I ever going to win at PVP?)

     

    join circle-of-two, we win, we have crazy serbs :]

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, ESO

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    Originally posted by Vyre

    Originally posted by TheHatter

     

    So?

    You will be able to buy new clothes or paint your ship or something like that? Possibly, even the ability to upload your own skins to the clothes. Those things should really cost real money, as they put a significant performance strain on servers. 

    The idea of being able to remap attributes is freaking amazing. I'm sitting here with 2 chars that still have remaps 3 months out and needed to be remapped 6 months ago.

    And that is why I stopped playing EVE.  God it makes me sick I fell for their character subscription scheme.  Everyone and their mother has a 2nd character.  The fun is gone when the majority of the playerbase has multiple characters playing at the same time.  Just fail already.

    No they don't.

    I havent used a second account since i transfered my Pve alt to my main account.

    I have a buddy thats actually trained up three seperate characters on the same account i believe all three have over 30million sp. he's enjoying himself.

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • itchmonitchmon Member UncommonPosts: 1,953

    Originally posted by Vyre

    Originally posted by TheHatter

     

    So?

    You will be able to buy new clothes or paint your ship or something like that? Possibly, even the ability to upload your own skins to the clothes. Those things should really cost real money, as they put a significant performance strain on servers. 

    The idea of being able to remap attributes is freaking amazing. I'm sitting here with 2 chars that still have remaps 3 months out and needed to be remapped 6 months ago.

    And that is why I stopped playing EVE.  God it makes me sick I fell for their character subscription scheme.  Everyone and their mother has a 2nd character.  The fun is gone when the majority of the playerbase has multiple characters playing at the same time.  Just fail already.

    thx to plex, and to profit potential skyrocketing with a second toon, many players with a second account only pay for one account and pay for the other with checking in ISK for plex.

     

    me included: i pay my main's sub on 6 months schedule with my sub fee and my alt is paid for in game currency (and he is still profitable even with 310 mil a month getting leeched out for his sub "fee")

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, ESO

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

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