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Well this is depressing.

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  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640
    I think paying 350 million ISK per attribute respec is great! Using plex or not one respec a year kinda sucks.
    I was hoping they would do this I mean don't we already pay for the ability to change out portraits and names(i think) what's the problem? It's not like ccp is selling faction shit out a freaking cash shop lol.

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    Are you some kind of long term troll parody of an EVE fanboy or something? I prefer that hypothesis to the alternative.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • WycliffeWycliffe Member Posts: 354

    We'll see how it pans out. If they stick to fluff items and the respec, then I can stomach it. Actually, the respec thing is something I'd take advantage of potentially. I already have my account paid till '11 with PLEX so dropping some ISK on a respec isn't that farfetched for me.

     

    The moment they start selling something gamebreaking with MT though...

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Are you some kind of long term troll parody of an EVE fanboy or something? I prefer that hypothesis to the alternative.

     

    I'm just being honest dude... I think paid respecs would be great. Sorry if I'm not all doom and gloom about this. Is it really a bad thing that I enjoy the game and generally have faith In CCP?

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • WycliffeWycliffe Member Posts: 354

    Ok, I admit to just now reading the article. Honestly I don't see what the problem is, all they mentioned was the respec cards. I know it gives you an advantage but its not a bad thing IMO. The biggest complaint about EVE is permanent advantage of older players to new ones. Having started in 9/09 and just passing 20mil SP this week, I know its not as bad as detractors constantly make it out to be. However, if I had the option to pay 350m and respec when I wanted to, I would be way past 20mil right now. Even at maximum possible SP per hour it still takes over 2 decades to train every skill in EVE to V. Giving people the option to respec will just be a godsend to those starting out, since once you have a certain amount of 'core' skills its pretty easy to set a specific map past that, the problem is starting out you need mem/int for learning skills, int/mem for engineering/mechanic/electronic/science skills, mem/per for drone skills, int/per for navigation skills and per/will for spaceship command and gunnery/missile skills and if you want to train anything outside combat or just leadership skills... Its a nightmare.

     

    tl:dr I think the respec card will mostly be used by 1-2 year old characters and even then no ones catching up to '03 characters anytime soon.

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    If all this is purely about a vanity shop for Incarna, then, you know, whatever. Incarna cost them a shit-ton to develop, and it's a way to pay for that expansion without charging for the expansion. Looked at in that perspective, the thing wouldn't be wholly unreasonable. In fact a lot of people would probably be happy with that structure and thinking about it, I'd be OK with it. Incarna is basically a whole new game (whether its a good game is a seperate issue, so let's not get in to that) that we're getting for free. We're going to play it for free. It'll be free for us to play. So, microtransactions: fair enough. Kind of hard to argue against em on that basis.



    But the instant items for spaceships appear, then we're not only on the slippery slope but strapping on our skis and yelling HEY WATCH THIS.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Member Posts: 1,803

    so just thinking out loud, say i need to train for ... a carrier, and advanced spaceship command V takes 27 days to train...  with a mere 300M and a +4 implants to perception and charisma i save 8 days worth of training, 

    i know that 300M may seem like much to some people, but in 0.0, isk comes to you, 300M you can get with about 5 -10 hours of running anomalies, less if you get lucky with a dread gurista or shadow serpentis or wtv space your in, which are more common than one may think. 

    that part you cant say it wont advantage people. 1 person with 2000$US to spend on a game will be able to train skils and aford expensive shit alot faster than a say, student, who has to spend those 2000$ on books and wtv else.  hell if you can remap with plex people will actually be able to "catch up" 

    this will break the game.. is all that im saying

    i have nothing against coloring your ship, uploading your corp logo onto something, buying makeup for you toon, or a new hat, or clothes for your avatar,  but remaping for 300M? thats just gamebreaking shit.

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  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    Originally posted by Squal'Zell

    so just thinking out loud, say i need to train for ... a carrier, and advanced spaceship command V takes 27 days to train...  with a mere 300M and a +4 implants to perception and charisma i save 8 days worth of training, 

    i know that 300M may seem like much to some people, but in 0.0, isk comes to you, 300M you can get with about 5 -10 hours of running anomalies, less if you get lucky with a dread gurista or shadow serpentis or wtv space your in, which are more common than one may think. 

    that part you cant say it wont advantage people. 1 person with 2000$US to spend on a game will be able to train skils and aford expensive shit alot faster than a say, student, who has to spend those 2000$ on books and wtv else.  hell if you can remap with plex people will actually be able to "catch up" 

    this will break the game.. is all that im saying

    i have nothing against coloring your ship, uploading your corp logo onto something, buying makeup for you toon, or a new hat, or clothes for your avatar,  but remaping for 300M? thats just gamebreaking shit.

     Reseeting a stat remap clock isn't all that huge a deal really. It doesn't increase the peak speed you can train at, it just means you can maintain that peak speed. I've been training at peak speed for the last 18 months, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. No-one is "catching me up" no matter how many remaps they buy.

    The issue is not so much that PLEX-for-remaps in and of themselves are such a big thing, it's the concept of miscro-transactions for permanent ingame advantage. ISK is ephemeral; SP are there for good.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • HYPERI0NHYPERI0N Member Posts: 3,515

    OP's basic premiss > image

     

    I want to reskin the thorax. A nice pink one with a red tip sounds fun image now i just need to find a megathron to do 'that' manouver with. image

     

    J/K i will say tho having a corp logo stamped on your ship and the option to edit your skin to add killmarkers would be nice.

     

    And for Ambulation a cool neon design for my amarrobe that barely if at all illunimates my face. Also the option to chose what colour will dramatically illinimate my face.

     

    Or an occular implant or contact lense that glows red when i am buying slaves or talking to a member of the slave race.image

     

    So many non game effecting but fun ideas.

    Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981

  • DawngreeterDawngreeter Member CommonPosts: 60

    Originally posted by Dalmont

    We'll see what incarna brings with the fluff, but anythign that can be bought with ingame money (plex's) and can be converted into something isn't bad imho.

     

    If its £14.99 to buy a ship, then I would leave and never be seen again - as this will screw up the economy

    Already a 300 million ISK ship costs you exactly 15 dollars. You might choose to not spend 15 dollars for a PLEX, sell it for 300 million ISK and then buy the ship with said ISK but you certainly can.

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640
    "paid attribute revamps will destroy the game". Come on guys don't you think your going a little overboard? I mean most of the serious players already use Evemon and train at the optimal speeds. If anything the morons that don't know how to set attributes will be sinking isk or cash into plex. This is a good thing... CCP will make more money, maybe hire a couple more devs and maybe just maybe shit will get done faster. More money for them equals a better game for me.

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,400

    It would be ironic if people so against said things in other games are suddenly now for it for EvE...

  • jrs77jrs77 Member Posts: 419

    In general there's absolutely nothing speaking against cash-shops, aslong as the items available are not influencing the game-balance.

    You can have pink dresses, pets, diet-coke etc as much as you want... that's not going to break the game in any way.

    If they start putting equiment, ships, etc into the cash-shop, which is equal to, or better then what you can craft (Tech 2), then I'll instantly stop playing the game.

    This doesn't count for EvE Online exclusively, but for all games, where there's PvP.

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776

    Originally posted by Rockgod99

    "paid attribute revamps will destroy the game". Come on guys don't you think your going a little overboard? I mean most of the serious players already use Evemon and train at the optimal speeds. If anything the morons that don't know how to set attributes will be sinking isk or cash into plex. This is a good thing... CCP will make more money, maybe hire a couple more devs and maybe just maybe shit will get done faster. More money for them equals a better game for me.

     I've always wondered why people get so concerned over the devs "making too much money" our only concern personally should be whether or not we are personally sending ourselves into the poor house by purchasing cash shop items.  For those of us out here with the personal restraint to not break ourselves will only get a better developed game in time, and for those of you who are so quick to come to the defense of the folks who have too much money on there hands just imagine they said your favorite game sucked and you will feel less of an obligation to save them from the evil devs out here.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640
    Originally posted by Swanea

    It would be ironic if people so against said things in other games are suddenly now for it for EvE...

     

    We can already buy a plex with real life cash and convert that into isk to buy in game items.
    Shit a buddy of mine bought a few plex sold them and bought a couple tech 3 ships. That's straight up cash for items... If people had such a problem with this they should have cried about it when plex was put I'n the game.

    image

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    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • jrs77jrs77 Member Posts: 419


    Originally posted by jaxsundane

    Originally posted by Rockgod99
    "paid attribute revamps will destroy the game". Come on guys don't you think your going a little overboard? I mean most of the serious players already use Evemon and train at the optimal speeds. If anything the morons that don't know how to set attributes will be sinking isk or cash into plex. This is a good thing... CCP will make more money, maybe hire a couple more devs and maybe just maybe shit will get done faster. More money for them equals a better game for me.
     I've always wondered why people get so concerned over the devs "making too much money" our only concern personally should be whether or not we are personally sending ourselves into the poor house by purchasing cash shop items.  For those of us out here with the personal restraint to not break ourselves will only get a better developed game in time, and for those of you who are so quick to come to the defense of the folks who have too much money on there hands just imagine they said your favorite game sucked and you will feel less of an obligation to save them from the evil devs out here.

    The question is not about the Devs making money, but about game-balance.

    Fluff items aren't complained about, but stuff that gives you an advantage over other players.

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640
    Originally posted by jrs77

    Originally posted by jaxsundane

    Originally posted by Rockgod99
    "paid attribute revamps will destroy the game". Come on guys don't you think your going a little overboard? I mean most of the serious players already use Evemon and train at the optimal speeds. If anything the morons that don't know how to set attributes will be sinking isk or cash into plex. This is a good thing... CCP will make more money, maybe hire a couple more devs and maybe just maybe shit will get done faster. More money for them equals a better game for me.
     I've always wondered why people get so concerned over the devs "making too much money" our only concern personally should be whether or not we are personally sending ourselves into the poor house by purchasing cash shop items.  For those of us out here with the personal restraint to not break ourselves will only get a better developed game in time, and for those of you who are so quick to come to the defense of the folks who have too much money on there hands just imagine they said your favorite game sucked and you will feel less of an obligation to save them from the evil devs out here.

    The question is not about the Devs making money, but about game-balance.

    Fluff items aren't complained about, but stuff that gives you an advantage over other players.

     

    Well it's not like these attribute revamps are exclusively offered In a shop for cash I can easily just use In game isk and get that revamp. Believe me once CCP offers shit In a shop that I can't get with I'n game ISK I will grab my torch and pitchfork with the rest of you.

    image

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    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640
    Ok let me ask this. Let's say plex was taken out of the equation. Let's say after your yearly free revamp you had to pay 350million isk for another, would it matter? Same with fluff, if some rare fluff item was set to the market for 350 million isk would you care at all? Honestly who am I to be against some guy/gal wanting a sparkly hat and paying isk for it... Why would I care is someone wants to cross train and pays to change attributes? How does this affect me? And why would I be so upset that I would uninstall?

    image

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    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • TheHatterTheHatter Member Posts: 2,547

    The Remaps for PLEX are already in Singularity. 

    Like someone said earlier, Remaps will not be a game breaker because it won't increase the max speed you can train. Like my miner I talked about earlier in this thread. Once his next remap comes up, he will never need another one again. He's sitting at 11.5mil SP with Exhumers 5. He will be a full production/miner alt and once I get his next remap in, there is nothing he would ever have to train that would require a remap again. (there are a few skills that would benefit for a remap, but they aren't worth 600mil)

    I honestly can't believe some people would consider this a game breaker. So, some PVP character wants to keep full train speed for everything he trains. If he can afford 360mil (I think that's the price right now) every time he needs to switch up his attributes, how is this ANY freaking different than a PVP character who can afford to keep +5s plugged into his head at all times? I know I can't afford to keep +5s in my head on my main, I get popped too much. Getting popped once every other month is too much to keep +5s on anything but my high sec JC. 

     

    If anything, Remap for PLEX will somewhat balance out those who can afford to keep +5s in their head with those who can't. Did anyone who's claiming this is a game breaker, think of that?

    Of course not.  

    I could afford a PLEX every 4 or 5 months when I need to actually remap to save time. That's only 360mil every 4 or 5 months. I can't afford to lose the 700mil that it costs for +5s, every month or sometimes multiple times a month though. Yeah, it gives me an advantage over someone who joins the game tomorrow. But, I want to see someone who joins tomorrow catch up with my 50mil SP in the next 5yrs. 

  • bansanbansan Member Posts: 367

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    *Snip*

    In other MMO's they are called Respec or Retcons or several other names. It's common in a pay to play and it has been a staple of the fluff and service type store that pay to play MMO's use for some time now. 

    I've never had to pay with real money to get a respec in a p2p game.  Respec scrolls are usually in f2p games.

    This is another case of a developer separating things you already get from a paid service, and making you pay additional in the name of "vanity items."

    The bottomline is that you will have to pay for features that you would have gotten anyway, and you will have to pay for things you MAY have gotten over time.  And you may get some things that would never have come without microtransactions.  In the end, you lose, even assuming they only go with vanity items.

    And as a poster mentioned above, what they have already implemented as micro transaction-ish is hardly vanity only.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,596

    Respecs and fluff have been available in MMO's for quite a while.  So long as they don't let you respec SKILLS, I'd be fine with it.

    Fluff, I could care less about.  Never bought it.  If someone else wants to pay for stuff like that, let 'em.

    Should they push further once they see the $$ rolling in, and start including advantageous stuff, then that's trouble.

  • JetrpgJetrpg Member UncommonPosts: 2,347

    Originally posted by DevilXaphan

    Some of you guys are worried about something that may not even affect gameplay when it comes out, when it does then you should voice your opinion to CCP.

    So if i removed all ships and replaced them with lag producing 2d flat images and made you pay for 3d ships, youd be cool becuase that doesn't effect gameplay right?

    Looks count also, im not sayign this is awful but if there is a $15 charge there are no mircos, imho. Otherwise make the game free like lol then you can micro away.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,802

    Doesn't CCP sell in-game currency anyway? That is probably one of the worst RMT's around, in my opinion.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Member UncommonPosts: 1,085

    I don't even play EVE and this bothers me. If you're paying a subscription, whether other MMO's having been doing it for prolonged periods or otherwise, you shouldn't have to pay anything additional to access the whole of the game's content. It's fine that there are F2P games that allow people a larger range of options in regards to payments for their title of choice, but the reason I choose to play P2P subscription games is so that I can avoid microtransactions entirely. Granted, there are things that can be overlooked, like allowing character remaps in EVE through both in-game purchases and microtransactions, but it starts to become a problem when what used to be baseline functionality begins to have price tags attached to it. Differing opinions probably derive from the expectations we each possess as individuals, and I expect to pay a flat rate in a subscription game for access to everything (read: EVERYTHING) that's available within said title.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • jrs77jrs77 Member Posts: 419

    People need to understand, that you don't need to pay anything more then the monthly subscription currently and have access to all of the game-items and content.

    The PLEX-system in it's current state is not a microtransaction, it's a system that let's other people pay for your gametime in exchange for ingame-currency. Without this system there would be 1/3 less accounts subscribed to the game and that would be way more unhealthy for the game then the PLEX-system.

    The addition that comes with the next addon (Incursion) is, that you can use these PLEX to tweak your attributes, but it's far from a real advantage or gamebreaking thing, as you can't re-allocate all of your attributes, but only 5 points. If you fire up EvEMon and go check the time-savings this allows for... it's laughable amounts of time saved for people who've maxeed the learning-skills allready. It's a mere of a week safed in training-times for a skill-play of a full year or maybe two weeks.

    So, if you're willing to pay 15$ for 7-14 faster skilltraining a year, then be my guest and give CCP more money. I've got no problem with that.

    ---

    Now to the real deal.

    If CCP should decide to implement a cash-shop, where you can buy items like ships, equipment or ammo for $$$, which are better then the craftable stuff, then we'd have a problem. But only then.

    This is the problem, why people hate cash-shops in games like RoM or the likes, as other players with more money can buy victory by buying better equipment. In EvE this isn't possible with the current system of PLEX however, so it's all fine, fi people want to give CCP more money for some fluff.

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