Some time ago a guy wrote that MMORPG's TOR forums are the place SWG vets come to cry their eyes out and die their digital deaths. Something like the old mammoth dying grounds.
That all bounty hunters are evil and dressed like jangoo fett, all smugglers get standard issue wookies and correlian corvettes?
that troopers can only be good and dress like clones, while the sith troopers from the kotor games seem to have vanished.
why we all fight over hoth because it's a major strategic point and not just a place where a desperate semi crushed rebellion hides?
Not all BH's are evil or dressed like Jango Fett.
Smuggler's get no correlian corvettes, they do have a wookiee companion (and I don't see a reason to complain about that).
Not all troopers are good, not all troopers dress like clones, the sith troopers from the kotor games vanished because the sith from the kotor games vanished, in their place new types of sith troopers are around.
Get a clue.
Finally, you complain about similarities to the original movies and then complain that Hoth is not similar enough?
Mind blowing.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
That all bounty hunters are evil and dressed like jangoo fett, all smugglers get standard issue wookies and correlian corvettes?
that troopers can only be good and dress like clones, while the sith troopers from the kotor games seem to have vanished.
why we all fight over hoth because it's a major strategic point and not just a place where a desperate semi crushed rebellion hides?
SWTOR is a much simpler game designed for a much younger audience with much more limited objectives than SWG used to be. If it fails, and there are people who think it may, then it will finally prove to LA that they have been making a serious error since 2005 in creating SW MMOs for casual audiences rather than player audiences. A bit like the comic industry in the 80s suddenly realising that the people who were actually buying and enjoying comics weren't twelve year olds but twenty plus year olds.
And if it succeeds it will prove once and for all that SWG was stillborn garbage and that nobody cares about sandboxes.
Fair enough?
Well, SWG was certainly a game that required a bit more of an intellectual and emotional sophistication.
I am a "Vet" I guess as you wold call it. I played in beta release of SWG all the way to 1 yr after NGE without a lapse once in sub. . I can not believe that there is a comparitive between SWTOR and Galaxies. Its comparing apples to oranges. EVERYONE has thier own oppinions of how they like their games. For one to express that one game rules while another suks is all in eye of the beholder. SWTOR is not released as of yet. Nobody knows what the game will be like at release they are changing exsisting gameplay as we speak. For instance according to posts for TOR all flight combat was on a track system but people complained and now BioWare is changing that.
Beta testers have no idea about the game at all. All we were given was a crust of the pie to sample. How a tester could come up with if the game is great, good or ok is not only a un-educated opinion it is bogus. And for people to listen to beta tester on TOR is like lemming ready to be led off the cliff. Beta testers really for the most part know no more about the game then what people see on vids released by bioware. Sure they might have some small tid bits of inside info but nothing to make them all knowing and powerfull. LOL "Heed Me I am Powerfull Beta guy!" Lets all wait till Bioware releases their product and wait for an expansion, b/c there will be one and then look and then make a verdict. In the mean time dont be a fool and expose your foolish ways.
Well, SWG was certainly a game that required a bit more of an intellectual and emotional sophistication.
No it wasn't....
You had to be a genius to do melee combat, what, with all the rubber banding going on...
I'll miss the crafting, no doubt. But the race to spam trip, headshot, or other FotM, I won' t miss... or being able to wreck a star destroyer with 1 Y-wing... or having to wait 45 minutes for it to spawn...
Personally I wasn´t expecting SWG 2 from this title so no.
I wasn't either but so far the set up seems un-original, weak and limited.....It may be fun for a few months but after that mark I'm not seeing elements "so far" that will keep me interested.
You had to be a genius to do melee combat, what, with all the rubber banding going on...
I'll miss the crafting, no doubt. But the race to spam trip, headshot, or other FotM, I won' t miss... or being able to wreck a star destroyer with 1 Y-wing... or having to wait 45 minutes for it to spawn...
HAHA, auto follow is your friend..err..was your friend.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
SWG sucked, get over it. The fact that people who think themselves special and call themselves "vets" hate this game is actually a good thing. If they liked it, then chances are it would suck as well.
pretty much this. I played SWG pre NGE and it was TERRIBLE. Every person has different tastes but damn I'm glad this game isn't SWG2
That all bounty hunters are evil and dressed like jangoo fett, all smugglers get standard issue wookies and correlian corvettes?
that troopers can only be good and dress like clones, while the sith troopers from the kotor games seem to have vanished.
why we all fight over hoth because it's a major strategic point and not just a place where a desperate semi crushed rebellion hides?
SWTOR is a much simpler game designed for a much younger audience with much more limited objectives than SWG used to be. If it fails, and there are people who think it may, then it will finally prove to LA that they have been making a serious error since 2005 in creating SW MMOs for casual audiences rather than player audiences. A bit like the comic industry in the 80s suddenly realising that the people who were actually buying and enjoying comics weren't twelve year olds but twenty plus year olds.
The only Mistake LucasArts ever made was trusting SOE to make a MMO without FUBAR'ing it. Im not saying that there isnt a chance that BioWare isnt biting off more than it can chew. But atleast give them a chance BioWare made 2 offline Star Wars RPG's and they won more awards separatly than SWG ever did so that means Lucas was right to ask them to make a MMO. besides who knows what they have planned after release they might add the Sith Trooper.
EQ1 wwas a great game. Number 1 in NA subs back then, and I played from 01 till 06.
SOE's mistake was letting Koster make the game. Sandboxes dont pull big audiences, and TOR is going to smash SWG sub numbers.
As far as companions....it would be nice to have unique sidekicks for everyone. Hopefully you have the ability to at least gear them up as you wish. Seeing as I enjoy immersion to a degree, and not simulation, it wont bother me. If you ever raided with 2 or more necros in EQ, you know what I mean.
eh?
#1: koster did not work on EQ1 - he worked as chief creative officer in EQ2.
#2: even if koster did work on that game, you claim it was a mistake and yet you played a game for 5 years and describe it as a "great game"?
#3: name me a themepark game aside from WoW with more paying subscriptions than EVE Online.
EQ1 wwas a great game. Number 1 in NA subs back then, and I played from 01 till 06.
SOE's mistake was letting Koster make the game. Sandboxes dont pull big audiences, and TOR is going to smash SWG sub numbers.
As far as companions....it would be nice to have unique sidekicks for everyone. Hopefully you have the ability to at least gear them up as you wish. Seeing as I enjoy immersion to a degree, and not simulation, it wont bother me. If you ever raided with 2 or more necros in EQ, you know what I mean.
eh?
#1: koster did not work on EQ1 - he worked as chief creative officer in EQ2.
#2: even if koster did work on that game, you claim it was a mistake and yet you played a game for 5 years and describe it as a "great game"?
#3: name me a themepark game aside from WoW with more paying subscriptions than EVE Online.
[mod edit]
Christ. Are you purposely trying to lure out flamewars, Troneas?
Because I have not seen one post of you that you weren't in some way trash talking SW:TOR or how 'oh so good' SWG was.
You think SW:TOR sucks and will fail and have no interest at all in how the game develops, you apparently pine away about how great SWG was. Why are you hanging around here for on the forum of a game you have no interest or hope for anyway, and not on the SWG forum??
It should be clear from reading Moaky's post and understanding the context that he was talking about Koster and SWG, as in:"Koster is widely recognized for his work as the lead designer of Ultima Online[1] and the creative director behind Star Wars Galaxies."
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Why are you hanging around here for on the forum of a game you have no interest or hope for anyway, and not on the SWG forum??
1. He secretly likes TOR and will be waiting in line with a copy day one like the rest of us.
2. He revels in negativity.
3. Jelousy
Your question can be easily answered, he's still upset about a change in a video game that took place years ago. And you're asking why he's hanging around here discussing a game he doesn't play or has no interest in? :P
#1: koster did not work on EQ1 - he worked as chief creative officer in EQ2.
#2: even if koster did work on that game, you claim it was a mistake and yet you played a game for 5 years and describe it as a "great game"?
#3: name me a themepark game aside from WoW with more paying subscriptions than EVE Online.
back to your cave moaky.
1: I think you read that wrong, it sounded to me as if he was saying their mistake was letting him create SWG.
2: I'll point to answer number 1.
3. Are you suggesting that because EVE is doing okay, it means that sandbox games are a better approach? The problem with this is that there are many different theme-park MMO's out there, meaning fans of those games are spread amongst the many options available to them.
How many decent sandbox MMO's are out there? One I know of, EVE, the rest are low budget hack jobs for the most part. Yet EVE still doesn't have even 500k subs. There are far more MMORPG players than that spread through games like WOW, LOTRO, DDO, EQ/EQ2, AOC, Aion, WAR, Fallen Earth etc.... Theme park players have so many options, and there are only so many gamers to go around, is it any surprise some aren't doing so hot?
EVE on the other hand is the king of their own genre, yet still aren't bringing in the numbers a lot of these studios are shooting for with teh next batch of MMO's.
I wouldn't be surprised if a huge portion of EVE's paying customers are more along the lines of space sim fans rather than MMO gamers, people who enjoyed games like Elite as an example. That genre has basically gone extinct over the last few years, meaning EVE would be the best option for these players.
A decently made sandbox has not been released, oh since what? The earlier part of this decade? Judging by that alone, it's hard to say how well a sandbox would be received. However judging by the release of FFxIV a game like SWG or UO in this day and age would probably be blasted by the "where's the content?" crowd.
Sandbox mechanics are lost on players like this, they don't want to create their own fun, that's why they're paying the price they are, they expect entertainment to come with that. I can't say I blame them to be honest, in 2003 I was all about sandbox designs, now I'm not so sure anymore. The most important aspect of those games has left the genre behind, that would be community.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That all bounty hunters are evil and dressed like jangoo fett, all smugglers get standard issue wookies and correlian corvettes?
that troopers can only be good and dress like clones, while the sith troopers from the kotor games seem to have vanished.
why we all fight over hoth because it's a major strategic point and not just a place where a desperate semi crushed rebellion hides?
SWTOR is a much simpler game designed for a much younger audience with much more limited objectives than SWG used to be. If it fails, and there are people who think it may, then it will finally prove to LA that they have been making a serious error since 2005 in creating SW MMOs for casual audiences rather than player audiences. A bit like the comic industry in the 80s suddenly realising that the people who were actually buying and enjoying comics weren't twelve year olds but twenty plus year olds.
And if it succeeds it will prove once and for all that SWG was stillborn garbage and that nobody cares about sandboxes.
Fair enough?
Well, SWG was certainly a game that required a bit more of an intellectual and emotional sophistication.
After playing Pre and NGE, I would say the so called intellectual and emotional sophistication completely broke down into an almost cult mass suicide seminar. And now most are lashing out at ToR because from most of the posts I've seen so far in most threads, is because it isn't a digital boxed apology and it doesn't cater to their loss of Pre.
A game is just that... a game, not an emotional crutch.
Originally posted by yabooer Originally posted by sinloi Cry....just out right cry. That all bounty hunters are evil and dressed like jangoo fett, all smugglers get standard issue wookies and correlian corvettes? that troopers can only be good and dress like clones, while the sith troopers from the kotor games seem to have vanished. why we all fight over hoth because it's a major strategic point and not just a place where a desperate semi crushed rebellion hides?
Also, if you're going to throw a rebuttal saying, "Well they will have cinematics and a HUGE story", I will simply state, that is amazing, please tell me the percentage of people that will actually go through and read all of it? You will see a number in the single digits.
I like how wrong you are.
Players only skipped 15% of ME2s dialog and cinematics, meaning the other 85% enjoyed their story.
Originally posted by agaga Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
Originally posted by agaga
Originally posted by sinloi Cry....just out right cry. That all bounty hunters are evil and dressed like jangoo fett, all smugglers get standard issue wookies and correlian corvettes? that troopers can only be good and dress like clones, while the sith troopers from the kotor games seem to have vanished. why we all fight over hoth because it's a major strategic point and not just a place where a desperate semi crushed rebellion hides?
SWTOR is a much simpler game designed for a much younger audience with much more limited objectives than SWG used to be. If it fails, and there are people who think it may, then it will finally prove to LA that they have been making a serious error since 2005 in creating SW MMOs for casual audiences rather than player audiences. A bit like the comic industry in the 80s suddenly realising that the people who were actually buying and enjoying comics weren't twelve year olds but twenty plus year olds.
And if it succeeds it will prove once and for all that SWG was stillborn garbage and that nobody cares about sandboxes. Fair enough? Well, SWG was certainly a game that required a bit more of an intellectual and emotional sophistication.
#1: koster did not work on EQ1 - he worked as chief creative officer in EQ2.
#2: even if koster did work on that game, you claim it was a mistake and yet you played a game for 5 years and describe it as a "great game"?
#3: name me a themepark game aside from WoW with more paying subscriptions than EVE Online.
back to your cave moaky.
1: I think you read that wrong, it sounded to me as if he was saying their mistake was letting him create SWG.
SWG was not out in 2001.
2: I'll point to answer number 1.
Refer to above.
3. Are you suggesting that because EVE is doing okay, it means that sandbox games are a better approach? The problem with this is that there are many different theme-park MMO's out there, meaning fans of those games are spread amongst the many options available to them.
you are putting words in my mouth. i am not saying one is better than the other. moaky, however, did suggest that one is better than the other and he went as far as saying that all sandbox games are failed. i corrected him.
How many decent sandbox MMO's are out there? One I know of, EVE, the rest are low budget hack jobs for the most part. Yet EVE still doesn't have even 500k subs. There are far more MMORPG players than that spread through games like WOW, LOTRO, DDO, EQ/EQ2, AOC, Aion, WAR, Fallen Earth etc.... Theme park players have so many options, and there are only so many gamers to go around, is it any surprise some aren't doing so hot?
yes, themepark is the trend. so? WoW was successful and everyone wanted a piece of the pie.
i am not saying its bad, or that they are to be avoided. not my cup of tea but hey...
and to argue your point:
LOTRO: arguably not as successful as a Lord of the Rings title could have been. I've read reports that it could be quite empty before it went f2p. Its growing now that its free.
DDO: omg, this game was all but burried until they made it f2p, and still, a very popular franchise.
EQ: incorporated many sandboxy elements from UO.
EQ2: successful.
WAR: eh? this game was dead after the a couple of months, and still is. read the reviews.
AoC: similar to WAR, but it lasted more. I actually played AoC for many months, and enjoyed some aspects of it. best combat animations and mechanics i've seen.
Fallen Earth: sandbox game.
WoW: 10 million subs. you telling me that a single game managed to attract 10 million subscribers and the rest suffer from extreme competition?
EVE on the other hand is the king of their own genre, yet still aren't bringing in the numbers a lot of these studios are shooting for with teh next batch of MMO's.
I wouldn't be surprised if a huge portion of EVE's paying customers are more along the lines of space sim fans rather than MMO gamers, people who enjoyed games like Elite as an example. That genre has basically gone extinct over the last few years, meaning EVE would be the best option for these players.
yes, and how do you explain that it started with a weak player base and steadily grew over time?
besides, many former SWG players went to eve.
A decently made sandbox has not been released, oh since what? The earlier part of this decade? Judging by that alone, it's hard to say how well a sandbox would be received. However judging by the release of FFxIV a game like SWG or UO in this day and age would probably be blasted by the "where's the content?" crowd.
of course a decent sandbox game has not been released in a decade. they are all making WoW clones!!!
Sandbox mechanics are lost on players like this, they don't want to create their own fun, that's why they're paying the price they are, they expect entertainment to come with that. I can't say I blame them to be honest, in 2003 I was all about sandbox designs, now I'm not so sure anymore. The most important aspect of those games has left the genre behind, that would be community.
thats your opinion, and fine, i respect it, even though i dont agree with it.
EQ1 wwas a great game. Number 1 in NA subs back then, and I played from 01 till 06.
SOE's mistake was letting Koster make the game. Sandboxes dont pull big audiences, and TOR is going to smash SWG sub numbers.
As far as companions....it would be nice to have unique sidekicks for everyone. Hopefully you have the ability to at least gear them up as you wish. Seeing as I enjoy immersion to a degree, and not simulation, it wont bother me. If you ever raided with 2 or more necros in EQ, you know what I mean.
eh?
#1: koster did not work on EQ1 - he worked as chief creative officer in EQ2.
#2: even if koster did work on that game, you claim it was a mistake and yet you played a game for 5 years and describe it as a "great game"?
#3: name me a themepark game aside from WoW with more paying subscriptions than EVE Online.
back to your cave moaky.
Christ. Are you purposely trying to lure out flamewars, Troneas?
Because I have not seen one post of you that you weren't in some way trash talking SW:TOR or how 'oh so good' SWG was.
You think SW:TOR sucks and will fail and have no interest at all in how the game develops, you apparently pine away about how great SWG was. Why are you hanging around here for on the forum of a game you have no interest or hope for anyway, and not on the SWG forum??
It should be clear from reading Moaky's post and understanding the context that he was talking about Koster and SWG, as in:
Speaking of caves, there is one on these forums too, it's called SWG Veteran Refuge. I think you'll like it there.
ok i correct a poster's nonesense and I am attracting flamewars.
where did i post that SWTOR sucks and fails? show me where. i criticise some aspects of the game, yes. i don't like their incoherences to the timeline, or shameless relation to the PT in a game that supposedly takes place a gazillion years before.. so?
when it suits them, they preach about how 3000 BBY gives them ALL this leeway to create and invent stuff. but then, they just imitate the movies in an almost repulsive way. all they need is to name the wookiee chewbaka or something.
does that make me a omG swtor hater? because i was dissapointed the only available races are different coloured humans? or that space is in a tunnel?
or does it make you a fanboy for putting words in my mouth and yelling: "troll!, hater!, every time someone posts a criticism or corrects someone else?
"EQ1 wwas a great game. Number 1 in NA subs back then, and I played from 01 till 06.
SOE's mistake was letting Koster make the game. Sandboxes dont pull big audiences, and TOR is going to smash SWG sub numbers."
well to me it sounds that "the game" is EQ1. That is what he is talking about in his post.
How I read it was, he was replying to someone who said something in regard to what SOE's major problem was
He responded by saying they made a great game in EQ which he played from 01-06. Where they went wrong (with SWG) was allowing Koster to design it.
Refer to above.
Above
you are putting words in my mouth. i am not saying one is better than the other. moaky, however, did suggest that one is better than the other and he went as far as saying that all sandbox games are failed. i corrected him.
By saying no theme-park outside of WOW is as successful as EVE. Which is why I said the points I did.
To summarize them, I was basically saying:
There are only so many fans of a given genre. The fans of theme-park games fill up quite a huge slice of the MMORPG pie. Where as EVE is in a category of its own more or less, and still doesn't have close to the number of players who make up the theme-park base, which is mostly WOW players.
yes, and how do you explain that it started with a weak player base and steadily grew over time?besides, many former SWG players went to eve.
That's simple, it's basically the only game of it's type that could be considered at all modern and well made. It really has no competition. Considering this, are it's numbers that impressive? I like EVE as a game I like what its about, so don't take that as an EVE bash.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That all bounty hunters are evil and dressed like jangoo fett, all smugglers get standard issue wookies and correlian corvettes?
that troopers can only be good and dress like clones, while the sith troopers from the kotor games seem to have vanished.
why we all fight over hoth because it's a major strategic point and not just a place where a desperate semi crushed rebellion hides?
SWTOR is a much simpler game designed for a much younger audience with much more limited objectives than SWG used to be. If it fails, and there are people who think it may, then it will finally prove to LA that they have been making a serious error since 2005 in creating SW MMOs for casual audiences rather than player audiences. A bit like the comic industry in the 80s suddenly realising that the people who were actually buying and enjoying comics weren't twelve year olds but twenty plus year olds.
SOE has taken the trend of dumbing downs games steady,EQ2 has also been streamlind a ton.Remember death penalties,crafting it was all much harder before.Now you can just buy many items in the game rather than work for them.
You cannot blame SOE,they makedecisions based on dollars,if they see soemthing slippping away just as was case in SWG they make changes.Weather or not we like their changes,i do not personally,you just need to forget it and decide on weather or not the game is still playable.For myself i still play EQ2,sure i do not like any one of the changes,but it is still a decent game to play.I have not stepped back into SWG in a VERY long time,so i really do not know if the new game is decent,i would say on a whim that it probably is.I always mean to go back and try it,but to be honest i didn't much like the original SWG,i am not a big Star Wars fan.I prefer outright Fantasy which leaves options to create,themed games need to more or less follow a set design or hardcore fans complain too much.
Hmm.is there no way to show spelling errors before i post?I have to constantly edit posts,i sort of remember in the past,that errors would show up but now they don't,maybe it's the Firefox?Always have problems with Firefox on sites.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
ok i correct a poster's nonesense and I am attracting flamewars.
where did i post that SWTOR sucks and fails? show me where. i criticise some aspects of the game, yes. i don't like their incoherences to the timeline, or shameless relation to the PT in a game that supposedly takes place a gazillion years before.. so?
when it suits them, they preach about how 3000 BBY gives them ALL this leeway to create and invent stuff. but then, they just imitate the movies in an almost repulsive way. all they need is to name the wookiee chewbaka or something.
does that make me a omG swtor hater? because i was dissapointed the only available races are different coloured humans? or that space is in a tunnel?
I don't much care for ending up in ongoing discussions that are totally besides a topic, but here it goes:
1. You were the only one misunderstanding Moaky's words and jumping on that opportunity.
2. 'back to your cave'? Really? That is how you answer someone when you correct them? And you're saying I am the one being prejudiced?
3. I have not seen one post in these gamesection SWTOR forums where you haven't been either negative about SW:TOR or all nostalgic about SWG, and sometimes both. In fact, I haven't seen you mention even one positive aspect about SW:TOR, all your posts that I've encountered are about how bad SW:TOR is in this or that, and how great SWG was, etc. So yes, even if criticism is not a bad thing in itself at all, onesided negativity does make one wonder why you hang around on forums of a game you apparently think little of and not hang around more around the forums of the game you like.
I have no interest in a pingpong debate, so I leave it at this. If you want to go on finding and posting only negativity about SW:TOR, do all you like, but don't be as quick to misjudge others and their posts next time.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Some time ago a guy wrote that MMORPG's TOR forums are the place SWG vets come to cry their eyes out and die their digital deaths. Something like the old mammoth dying grounds.
He was spot on.
Not all BH's are evil or dressed like Jango Fett.
Smuggler's get no correlian corvettes, they do have a wookiee companion (and I don't see a reason to complain about that).
Not all troopers are good, not all troopers dress like clones, the sith troopers from the kotor games vanished because the sith from the kotor games vanished, in their place new types of sith troopers are around.
Get a clue.
Finally, you complain about similarities to the original movies and then complain that Hoth is not similar enough?
Mind blowing.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Well, SWG was certainly a game that required a bit more of an intellectual and emotional sophistication.
No it wasn't....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am a "Vet" I guess as you wold call it. I played in beta release of SWG all the way to 1 yr after NGE without a lapse once in sub. . I can not believe that there is a comparitive between SWTOR and Galaxies. Its comparing apples to oranges. EVERYONE has thier own oppinions of how they like their games. For one to express that one game rules while another suks is all in eye of the beholder. SWTOR is not released as of yet. Nobody knows what the game will be like at release they are changing exsisting gameplay as we speak. For instance according to posts for TOR all flight combat was on a track system but people complained and now BioWare is changing that.
Beta testers have no idea about the game at all. All we were given was a crust of the pie to sample. How a tester could come up with if the game is great, good or ok is not only a un-educated opinion it is bogus. And for people to listen to beta tester on TOR is like lemming ready to be led off the cliff. Beta testers really for the most part know no more about the game then what people see on vids released by bioware. Sure they might have some small tid bits of inside info but nothing to make them all knowing and powerfull. LOL "Heed Me I am Powerfull Beta guy!" Lets all wait till Bioware releases their product and wait for an expansion, b/c there will be one and then look and then make a verdict. In the mean time dont be a fool and expose your foolish ways.
You had to be a genius to do melee combat, what, with all the rubber banding going on...
I'll miss the crafting, no doubt. But the race to spam trip, headshot, or other FotM, I won' t miss... or being able to wreck a star destroyer with 1 Y-wing... or having to wait 45 minutes for it to spawn...
I wasn't either but so far the set up seems un-original, weak and limited.....It may be fun for a few months but after that mark I'm not seeing elements "so far" that will keep me interested.
PIRATE LORDS
this is exactly how i think.
its tragic, really.
HAHA, auto follow is your friend..err..was your friend.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
his post has nothing to do with SWG or SWG 2.
its about lacking creativity in what the game proposes and basically replicating every major event or aspect of the PT and OT 3000 years before.
they did a much better job in kotor with regards to this .
pretty much this. I played SWG pre NGE and it was TERRIBLE. Every person has different tastes but damn I'm glad this game isn't SWG2
eh?
#1: koster did not work on EQ1 - he worked as chief creative officer in EQ2.
#2: even if koster did work on that game, you claim it was a mistake and yet you played a game for 5 years and describe it as a "great game"?
#3: name me a themepark game aside from WoW with more paying subscriptions than EVE Online.
[mod edit]
Christ. Are you purposely trying to lure out flamewars, Troneas?
Because I have not seen one post of you that you weren't in some way trash talking SW:TOR or how 'oh so good' SWG was.
You think SW:TOR sucks and will fail and have no interest at all in how the game develops, you apparently pine away about how great SWG was. Why are you hanging around here for on the forum of a game you have no interest or hope for anyway, and not on the SWG forum??
It should be clear from reading Moaky's post and understanding the context that he was talking about Koster and SWG, as in:"Koster is widely recognized for his work as the lead designer of Ultima Online[1] and the creative director behind Star Wars Galaxies."
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
1. He secretly likes TOR and will be waiting in line with a copy day one like the rest of us.
2. He revels in negativity.
3. Jelousy
Your question can be easily answered, he's still upset about a change in a video game that took place years ago. And you're asking why he's hanging around here discussing a game he doesn't play or has no interest in? :P
1: I think you read that wrong, it sounded to me as if he was saying their mistake was letting him create SWG.
2: I'll point to answer number 1.
3. Are you suggesting that because EVE is doing okay, it means that sandbox games are a better approach? The problem with this is that there are many different theme-park MMO's out there, meaning fans of those games are spread amongst the many options available to them.
How many decent sandbox MMO's are out there? One I know of, EVE, the rest are low budget hack jobs for the most part. Yet EVE still doesn't have even 500k subs. There are far more MMORPG players than that spread through games like WOW, LOTRO, DDO, EQ/EQ2, AOC, Aion, WAR, Fallen Earth etc.... Theme park players have so many options, and there are only so many gamers to go around, is it any surprise some aren't doing so hot?
EVE on the other hand is the king of their own genre, yet still aren't bringing in the numbers a lot of these studios are shooting for with teh next batch of MMO's.
I wouldn't be surprised if a huge portion of EVE's paying customers are more along the lines of space sim fans rather than MMO gamers, people who enjoyed games like Elite as an example. That genre has basically gone extinct over the last few years, meaning EVE would be the best option for these players.
A decently made sandbox has not been released, oh since what? The earlier part of this decade? Judging by that alone, it's hard to say how well a sandbox would be received. However judging by the release of FFxIV a game like SWG or UO in this day and age would probably be blasted by the "where's the content?" crowd.
Sandbox mechanics are lost on players like this, they don't want to create their own fun, that's why they're paying the price they are, they expect entertainment to come with that. I can't say I blame them to be honest, in 2003 I was all about sandbox designs, now I'm not so sure anymore. The most important aspect of those games has left the genre behind, that would be community.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
After playing Pre and NGE, I would say the so called intellectual and emotional sophistication completely broke down into an almost cult mass suicide seminar. And now most are lashing out at ToR because from most of the posts I've seen so far in most threads, is because it isn't a digital boxed apology and it doesn't cater to their loss of Pre.
A game is just that... a game, not an emotional crutch.
Also, if you're going to throw a rebuttal saying, "Well they will have cinematics and a HUGE story", I will simply state, that is amazing, please tell me the percentage of people that will actually go through and read all of it? You will see a number in the single digits.
I like how wrong you are.
Players only skipped 15% of ME2s dialog and cinematics, meaning the other 85% enjoyed their story.
Like I said, I like how wrong you are.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
SWTOR is a much simpler game designed for a much younger audience with much more limited objectives than SWG used to be. If it fails, and there are people who think it may, then it will finally prove to LA that they have been making a serious error since 2005 in creating SW MMOs for casual audiences rather than player audiences. A bit like the comic industry in the 80s suddenly realising that the people who were actually buying and enjoying comics weren't twelve year olds but twenty plus year olds.
And if it succeeds it will prove once and for all that SWG was stillborn garbage and that nobody cares about sandboxes.
Fair enough?
Well, SWG was certainly a game that required a bit more of an intellectual and emotional sophistication.
It's still just mustard yo.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
ok i correct a poster's nonesense and I am attracting flamewars.
where did i post that SWTOR sucks and fails? show me where. i criticise some aspects of the game, yes. i don't like their incoherences to the timeline, or shameless relation to the PT in a game that supposedly takes place a gazillion years before.. so?
when it suits them, they preach about how 3000 BBY gives them ALL this leeway to create and invent stuff. but then, they just imitate the movies in an almost repulsive way. all they need is to name the wookiee chewbaka or something.
does that make me a omG swtor hater? because i was dissapointed the only available races are different coloured humans? or that space is in a tunnel?
or does it make you a fanboy for putting words in my mouth and yelling: "troll!, hater!, every time someone posts a criticism or corrects someone else?
"EQ1 wwas a great game. Number 1 in NA subs back then, and I played from 01 till 06.
SOE's mistake was letting Koster make the game. Sandboxes dont pull big audiences, and TOR is going to smash SWG sub numbers."
well to me it sounds that "the game" is EQ1. That is what he is talking about in his post.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
L O freaking L
You know you are dating yourself by putting this up, nonetheless hilarity ensues...
SOE has taken the trend of dumbing downs games steady,EQ2 has also been streamlind a ton.Remember death penalties,crafting it was all much harder before.Now you can just buy many items in the game rather than work for them.
You cannot blame SOE,they makedecisions based on dollars,if they see soemthing slippping away just as was case in SWG they make changes.Weather or not we like their changes,i do not personally,you just need to forget it and decide on weather or not the game is still playable.For myself i still play EQ2,sure i do not like any one of the changes,but it is still a decent game to play.I have not stepped back into SWG in a VERY long time,so i really do not know if the new game is decent,i would say on a whim that it probably is.I always mean to go back and try it,but to be honest i didn't much like the original SWG,i am not a big Star Wars fan.I prefer outright Fantasy which leaves options to create,themed games need to more or less follow a set design or hardcore fans complain too much.
Hmm.is there no way to show spelling errors before i post?I have to constantly edit posts,i sort of remember in the past,that errors would show up but now they don't,maybe it's the Firefox?Always have problems with Firefox on sites.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I don't much care for ending up in ongoing discussions that are totally besides a topic, but here it goes:
1. You were the only one misunderstanding Moaky's words and jumping on that opportunity.
2. 'back to your cave'? Really? That is how you answer someone when you correct them? And you're saying I am the one being prejudiced?
3. I have not seen one post in these gamesection SWTOR forums where you haven't been either negative about SW:TOR or all nostalgic about SWG, and sometimes both. In fact, I haven't seen you mention even one positive aspect about SW:TOR, all your posts that I've encountered are about how bad SW:TOR is in this or that, and how great SWG was, etc. So yes, even if criticism is not a bad thing in itself at all, onesided negativity does make one wonder why you hang around on forums of a game you apparently think little of and not hang around more around the forums of the game you like.
I have no interest in a pingpong debate, so I leave it at this. If you want to go on finding and posting only negativity about SW:TOR, do all you like, but don't be as quick to misjudge others and their posts next time.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."