Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.
Maybe my experience with mmo's was limited before WoW, but every game I know of, including EQ, L2, GW, and DAOC did not have an auction house, and those games amongst many others worked perfectly well as you can well see.
True. FFXI was the first mmo that I played which had an auction house. You can probably bet you'll see one in FFXIV eventually too, SE just wanted to see how this goes. (They did the same thing with XI).
Wow, what a coincidence.. FFXI was the first MMO that I played with a Auction House as well. I remember it was one of the first things I discovered about FFXI. I was in Port Sandy, which was my very first area I started in, and I remember looking at all these people standing around just staring at the wall. I thought to myself what is so special about that damn wall. I finally figured out they were all using the AH. True story.
Here is my take. First FFXIV probably has the best crafting system that I have seen in any MMO(though EVE comes pretty close). Secondly by focusing on shops rather than an auction house you are actually forcing more community involvement and producing more competition than a standard auction house would(IMO).
Personally I think this is a good move on SE's part. FFXIV biggest appeal to me is the community aspect. That is one of its biggest pluses in my book. Honestly I think this is the MMO I have been looking for for so long.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
My biggest problem isn't with the lack of an AH, or whether or not they include one in the future. It's with the people who are going insane trying to fight off an AH because a certain MMORPG that shall not be named has one in it.
People fear that by adding an AH you take away from the community, but having an AH doesn't mean you have to kill the current bartering system. They can work together like they do in FFXI.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.
well AH prices are sooo easy to manipulate. some1 with money can buy/resell at pricess they decide, similar to ffxi. having to look for what you want is a traditional part of gameplay. Join a linkshell to help u craft the stuff you need.
In Dungeon fighter online, they never had a Ah until recently and it got really annoying looking thru stalls trying to find a certan item, now that they have an auction house, prices are cheaper, stuff is more available, prices have stablized.
i was there for the dungeon fighter ah. While what you are saying is true, it also had an adverse effect on people. people being able to see everything at one time is kinda bad imo. MASSIVE undercutting. this is a problem of the ah also. if you have to go through stalls, you wont be able to undercut as much cause u have no idea what the next man is selling his for.
Anyway I just cannot see any resonable reason to not have a auction house in a mmorpg now a days. if their is a way to search well, sorry for this post, my PC could barely hit 10 fps in the game even with everything set to min, would have been nice if I could have adjusted view range and suchthough I may have missed this setting somehow.
your retainer can search items for you so long as you have 1 of the said items on them. this is what ive heard.
Now lets move on the crafting, am I the only one who finds it stupid that to make some of the sub componnets for say a weapon, takes mutiple diff craft jobs, and sometimes 2-3x the amount of skill needed than to put the stupid item together? Would suck if after all that time you failed the final product and lost most of the stuff and had to restart from scratch.
group crafting is suppose to be in game. Also failing is also part of the game. the higher your skill lvl, the higher chance you should have for success. not failing ruins crafting imo. difficulty = great reward vs no chance of failing = great reward. take wow for example, i dont remember being able to fail crafts in that game.
Not trying to troll I just have some concerns thats all, also if you can't be constructive please don't bother posting.
No to AH please. AH's just ruin markets imo. Also it takes away from the community. talk to people, haggle a little bit, try to make trades. ask ls mates if they can help u. the game was made for groups, with an ability to solo.
I didn't try FFXIV's crafting system very much. I did some of the crafting leves but I didn't really understand the difference between using the primary tool or secondary tool (or whatever they are called) because no matter what you had to make, it let you use either one. Not only that but to get started was a pain in the ass to succeed at making any items for the leves.
Despite all of that, the crafting system is still fun and gives the player a sense of accomplishment when they succeed at crafting items.
My biggest problem isn't with the lack of an AH, or whether or not they include one in the future. It's with the people who are going insane trying to fight off an AH because a certain MMORPG that shall not be named has one in it.
People fear that by adding an AH you take away from the community, but having an AH doesn't mean you have to kill the current bartering system. They can work together like they do in FFXI.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
I hope they do not add an AH, but only because I think it would detract from their original design. I have never been a crafter, but I have always thrived on buying and reselling. I think the Bazaar lends itself to people like myself without detracting from those that just want to craft, but don't care to go through the hassle of selling.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
I would prefer an AH. I'm all for community building, immersion, etc. but when it's all said an done, I really want to find the goods I'm shopping for and then move on to my own adventuring/crafting.
As someone said earlier in this thread, they enjoyed spending most of the their Sundays just shopping and haggling the various shops. To me, that would be a nightmare scenario and a very boring and unproductive Sunday. But then I hate shopping/haggling in real life too...so yeah...
I've always liked the bazaar type shopping, as long as there is a search function for all the shops. The only difference compared to to an AH is people have to be on to sell their goods in their shops, so prices could fluctuate week to week.
I remember in EQ seeing many of the same item, so people were selling for less, but a few days later, those people weren't on to sell, and could list for a higher price and someone who wanted it bad enough would pay because they had no idea if there would be 4 people trying to sell or just 1.
Not exactly sure how ffxiv has it set up, just stating the type of bazaar I like, hehe.
Having an AH in this game still wont help with pricing as much as some might think. You'll see 15 of the same item but each will have a different quality, durability, resistances, and modifiers. Not only that but there will be +1 2 3 versions of everything. What's the difference in having to look through markets and sifting through 3 dozen of the same type of sword on the AH having to compare these factors, other than the latter seeming a bit easier? I guess some people never out grow needing to have their medicine taste like candy.
i personally believe that the current stall system is wonky but novel. the biggest problem i find is the response time of the ui is making going through bazaars tiring and irritating at best.
positives to no AH
gold farmers have harder time of controlling market due to influx of mats being hard to flood the market with.
AH brokers (im looking at you want to be stock traders) cant ruin economy by buying every mat of one item and remarking price to inflated rate
community involvement and reputations are created.
chance for wide variation in price for feast or famine style markets making rare mats much more valuable and timing and placement of listing more of a skill
price fixing and undercutting just to move product not likely to happen
Positives to an ah
ease of navigation
materials easy to locate
time investment is more valuable
my thoughts?
ah's have a tendency to create a fixed virtual economy that can truly ruin a game. though in all honesty it isn't normally the average player that ruins the the economy but the big box farmers controlling the market. i think that perhaps a market ward level ah would be the best approach to most of these issues. by making non linked AH's you can still have relative ease of use and navigation. price fixing is harder to do because ah's aren't linked not even in main city's but on ward level only you can still search per ward every ah for what you are looking for in that ward. this would solve what many enthusiasts are afraid a regional or global AH might create.
Originally posted by grafh Originally posted by scythe99 Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk. well AH prices are sooo easy to manipulate. some1 with money can buy/resell at pricess they decide, similar to ffxi. having to look for what you want is a traditional part of gameplay. Join a linkshell to help u craft the stuff you need. In Dungeon fighter online, they never had a Ah until recently and it got really annoying looking thru stalls trying to find a certan item, now that they have an auction house, prices are cheaper, stuff is more available, prices have stablized. i was there for the dungeon fighter ah. While what you are saying is true, it also had an adverse effect on people. people being able to see everything at one time is kinda bad imo. MASSIVE undercutting. this is a problem of the ah also. if you have to go through stalls, you wont be able to undercut as much cause u have no idea what the next man is selling his for. Anyway I just cannot see any resonable reason to not have a auction house in a mmorpg now a days. if their is a way to search well, sorry for this post, my PC could barely hit 10 fps in the game even with everything set to min, would have been nice if I could have adjusted view range and suchthough I may have missed this setting somehow. your retainer can search items for you so long as you have 1 of the said items on them. this is what ive heard. Now lets move on the crafting, am I the only one who finds it stupid that to make some of the sub componnets for say a weapon, takes mutiple diff craft jobs, and sometimes 2-3x the amount of skill needed than to put the stupid item together? Would suck if after all that time you failed the final product and lost most of the stuff and had to restart from scratch. group crafting is suppose to be in game. Also failing is also part of the game. the higher your skill lvl, the higher chance you should have for success. not failing ruins crafting imo. difficulty = great reward vs no chance of failing = great reward. take wow for example, i dont remember being able to fail crafts in that game. Not trying to troll I just have some concerns thats all, also if you can't be constructive please don't bother posting. No to AH please. AH's just ruin markets imo. Also it takes away from the community. talk to people, haggle a little bit, try to make trades. ask ls mates if they can help u. the game was made for groups, with an ability to solo.
red is my response
Only people who dislike ah's are usually the ones who try to rip people off thru a stall system least thats what I noticed in other games, Also retainers can search for items if you have one, thats fine and dandy but if I am looking to buy a weapon, I should be able to specify what I want, quality range and price range without already having one, otherwise the search system is not exactly all that useful. I have a low end pc soo... shopping is going to be a major pain, a pain an auction house would get rid of somewhat.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Only people who dislike ah's are usually the ones who try to rip people off thru a stall system least thats what I noticed in other games, Also retainers can search for items if you have one, thats fine and dandy but if I am looking to buy a weapon, I should be able to specify what I want, quality range and price range without already having one, otherwise the search system is not exactly all that useful. I have a low end pc soo... shopping is going to be a major pain, a pain an auction house would get rid of somewhat.
Actually I hate AHs and I have no desire to rip people off. I will take an equally bias approach to show you how fun that is. I think the only people who like AHs are lazy people who only want to solo and want to max level as fast as possible, the type that don't actually like playing the game they only like to beat it, the type that are likely to exploit any balance issue or bug they find.
To me AHs take a LOT away from the feel of the game. I start with The Realm and went on to UO, EQ, AC, SWG, DAoC, WoW etc etc. The games that I enjoyed the most had no AHs. I liked going from house to house in UO and SWG looking for goods to buy and seeing what was for sale. I like the shopping at the vendors in AC after people had sold them stuff or doing trades in chat. Once AHs started showing up, a major portion of the social gameplay that made the world feel alive was ripped out. Interestingly enough I've never been able to stay with a game that has an AH more then a month or two (not just because of AH but a game that has an AH tends to have all the gameplay styles that make an MMO boring to me).
The surprising thing is this is the first thing I've heard about with FFXIV that actually makes the game sound interesting. Up to this point everything about the game sounded/looked bad. I still won't be playing it since this one feature isn't enough to make me hop in game, but it is good to see that some games are going away from the "Everything is easy, you can have everything you want right now, no down time, solo all the way through if you like" style of MMOs.
Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.
In Dungeon fighter online, they never had a Ah until recently and it got really annoying looking thru stalls trying to find a certan item, now that they have an auction house, prices are cheaper, stuff is more available, prices have stablized.
Anyway I just cannot see any resonable reason to not have a auction house in a mmorpg now a days. if their is a way to search well, sorry for this post, my PC could barely hit 10 fps in the game even with everything set to min, would have been nice if I could have adjusted view range and suchthough I may have missed this setting somehow.
Now lets move on the crafting, am I the only one who finds it stupid that to make some of the sub componnets for say a weapon, takes mutiple diff craft jobs, and sometimes 2-3x the amount of skill needed than to put the stupid item together? Would suck if after all that time you failed the final product and lost most of the stuff and had to restart from scratch.
Not trying to troll I just have some concerns thats all, also if you can't be constructive please don't bother posting.
75% of Auction house type systems are actually harmful to the economy, encouraging under cutting and monopolization of items by the first to reach max level in that craft.
86.3% of people will remember names of crafters (and their retainers) and attempt to return to them to find similiar items. 72% of people think that it is easy to find crafters if you look around the city (at the guilds, or the repair npc being popular places where they congregate to craft).
100% of FFXIV actually has an Auction House in the game which the developers have said they plan to implement at some point once they see how the players are using the economy, and how they can implement it in a way that allows more accessability while at the same time not hurting those who like to craft.
I don't like this idea either. It makes it impossible to have a set economy. Certain items should sell for roughly certain prices. When some joe bloke can sell his items for 50 times more than another guy that you will NEVER see. How does anyone know whether they are being ripped off or not? Nobody knows because theirs no "Economy"!!!
Welcome to the markets of China. This is exactly how many private retailers and street sellers work. There is this huge bazaar in Shanghai, where a lot of vendors sell the same items, but prices can vary by tenfold from one vendor to another down the street.
It's silly and ridiculous. I think the SE people have some romantic idea of bazaars, bartering, and haggling, and while that's acceptable for a little boy dreaming big, it's rather immature for a company because they should know that romantic ideas lose to reality. The game DOES need an AH to improve the liquidity and efficiency of the entire in game economy, and liquidity and efficiency is demonstrably, mathematically, rationally desirable and condition improving.
I guess some people enjoy the hunt for items. They see a warehouse of 1,000 barrels (lets call them "retainers") and think it's fun to check each and every one in hopes of finding that great deal. They try to haggle with the barrel, but apparently it isn't a talking barrel. No immersion. But they feel satisfied because this isn't WoW...
Tell that to East Commonlands / North Freeport. /ooc WTS bag of goods in KOS tunnel!
<wipes tear from eyes> ah those were the days /shout Slate to tunnel or /shout Griffin to tunnel.
Man, a time when people not only generally had manners, but should they train to zone they had the decency to shout that was the case. Kind of like living in another time...
Comments
Wow, what a coincidence.. FFXI was the first MMO that I played with a Auction House as well. I remember it was one of the first things I discovered about FFXI. I was in Port Sandy, which was my very first area I started in, and I remember looking at all these people standing around just staring at the wall. I thought to myself what is so special about that damn wall. I finally figured out they were all using the AH. True story.
LOL
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Here is my take. First FFXIV probably has the best crafting system that I have seen in any MMO(though EVE comes pretty close). Secondly by focusing on shops rather than an auction house you are actually forcing more community involvement and producing more competition than a standard auction house would(IMO).
Personally I think this is a good move on SE's part. FFXIV biggest appeal to me is the community aspect. That is one of its biggest pluses in my book. Honestly I think this is the MMO I have been looking for for so long.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
My biggest problem isn't with the lack of an AH, or whether or not they include one in the future. It's with the people who are going insane trying to fight off an AH because a certain MMORPG that shall not be named has one in it.
People fear that by adding an AH you take away from the community, but having an AH doesn't mean you have to kill the current bartering system. They can work together like they do in FFXI.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
To early to tell.
--John Ruskin
red is my response
I didn't try FFXIV's crafting system very much. I did some of the crafting leves but I didn't really understand the difference between using the primary tool or secondary tool (or whatever they are called) because no matter what you had to make, it let you use either one. Not only that but to get started was a pain in the ass to succeed at making any items for the leves.
Despite all of that, the crafting system is still fun and gives the player a sense of accomplishment when they succeed at crafting items.
I hope they do not add an AH, but only because I think it would detract from their original design. I have never been a crafter, but I have always thrived on buying and reselling. I think the Bazaar lends itself to people like myself without detracting from those that just want to craft, but don't care to go through the hassle of selling.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
I would prefer an AH. I'm all for community building, immersion, etc. but when it's all said an done, I really want to find the goods I'm shopping for and then move on to my own adventuring/crafting.
As someone said earlier in this thread, they enjoyed spending most of the their Sundays just shopping and haggling the various shops. To me, that would be a nightmare scenario and a very boring and unproductive Sunday. But then I hate shopping/haggling in real life too...so yeah...
I've always liked the bazaar type shopping, as long as there is a search function for all the shops. The only difference compared to to an AH is people have to be on to sell their goods in their shops, so prices could fluctuate week to week.
I remember in EQ seeing many of the same item, so people were selling for less, but a few days later, those people weren't on to sell, and could list for a higher price and someone who wanted it bad enough would pay because they had no idea if there would be 4 people trying to sell or just 1.
Not exactly sure how ffxiv has it set up, just stating the type of bazaar I like, hehe.
Having an AH in this game still wont help with pricing as much as some might think. You'll see 15 of the same item but each will have a different quality, durability, resistances, and modifiers. Not only that but there will be +1 2 3 versions of everything. What's the difference in having to look through markets and sifting through 3 dozen of the same type of sword on the AH having to compare these factors, other than the latter seeming a bit easier? I guess some people never out grow needing to have their medicine taste like candy.
I think SWG had one of the most fun systems for selling items. Searching the player-housed shops was fun, only game that made shopping fun for me.
This game just came out today and you already played 8 hours? LOL!
That's FF 11, not 14. lol.
i personally believe that the current stall system is wonky but novel. the biggest problem i find is the response time of the ui is making going through bazaars tiring and irritating at best.
positives to no AH
gold farmers have harder time of controlling market due to influx of mats being hard to flood the market with.
AH brokers (im looking at you want to be stock traders) cant ruin economy by buying every mat of one item and remarking price to inflated rate
community involvement and reputations are created.
chance for wide variation in price for feast or famine style markets making rare mats much more valuable and timing and placement of listing more of a skill
price fixing and undercutting just to move product not likely to happen
Positives to an ah
ease of navigation
materials easy to locate
time investment is more valuable
my thoughts?
ah's have a tendency to create a fixed virtual economy that can truly ruin a game. though in all honesty it isn't normally the average player that ruins the the economy but the big box farmers controlling the market. i think that perhaps a market ward level ah would be the best approach to most of these issues. by making non linked AH's you can still have relative ease of use and navigation. price fixing is harder to do because ah's aren't linked not even in main city's but on ward level only you can still search per ward every ah for what you are looking for in that ward. this would solve what many enthusiasts are afraid a regional or global AH might create.
Only people who dislike ah's are usually the ones who try to rip people off thru a stall system least thats what I noticed in other games, Also retainers can search for items if you have one, thats fine and dandy but if I am looking to buy a weapon, I should be able to specify what I want, quality range and price range without already having one, otherwise the search system is not exactly all that useful. I have a low end pc soo... shopping is going to be a major pain, a pain an auction house would get rid of somewhat.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Actually I hate AHs and I have no desire to rip people off. I will take an equally bias approach to show you how fun that is. I think the only people who like AHs are lazy people who only want to solo and want to max level as fast as possible, the type that don't actually like playing the game they only like to beat it, the type that are likely to exploit any balance issue or bug they find.
To me AHs take a LOT away from the feel of the game. I start with The Realm and went on to UO, EQ, AC, SWG, DAoC, WoW etc etc. The games that I enjoyed the most had no AHs. I liked going from house to house in UO and SWG looking for goods to buy and seeing what was for sale. I like the shopping at the vendors in AC after people had sold them stuff or doing trades in chat. Once AHs started showing up, a major portion of the social gameplay that made the world feel alive was ripped out. Interestingly enough I've never been able to stay with a game that has an AH more then a month or two (not just because of AH but a game that has an AH tends to have all the gameplay styles that make an MMO boring to me).
The surprising thing is this is the first thing I've heard about with FFXIV that actually makes the game sound interesting. Up to this point everything about the game sounded/looked bad. I still won't be playing it since this one feature isn't enough to make me hop in game, but it is good to see that some games are going away from the "Everything is easy, you can have everything you want right now, no down time, solo all the way through if you like" style of MMOs.
79% of statistics are made up. True story.
Welcome to the markets of China. This is exactly how many private retailers and street sellers work. There is this huge bazaar in Shanghai, where a lot of vendors sell the same items, but prices can vary by tenfold from one vendor to another down the street.
It's silly and ridiculous. I think the SE people have some romantic idea of bazaars, bartering, and haggling, and while that's acceptable for a little boy dreaming big, it's rather immature for a company because they should know that romantic ideas lose to reality. The game DOES need an AH to improve the liquidity and efficiency of the entire in game economy, and liquidity and efficiency is demonstrably, mathematically, rationally desirable and condition improving.
I guess some people enjoy the hunt for items. They see a warehouse of 1,000 barrels (lets call them "retainers") and think it's fun to check each and every one in hopes of finding that great deal. They try to haggle with the barrel, but apparently it isn't a talking barrel. No immersion. But they feel satisfied because this isn't WoW...
I think as a general statement, the above comment describes FF XIV to a tee.
I'm just not sure if the wonky outweighs the novel or vice versa.
<wipes tear from eyes> ah those were the days /shout Slate to tunnel or /shout Griffin to tunnel.
Man, a time when people not only generally had manners, but should they train to zone they had the decency to shout that was the case. Kind of like living in another time...