You know if someone at Sony would wake up and see that there is still some interest in Vanguard and were to put some folks to work on an expansion down the road. Wonder how the gaming community would react? Food for thought.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Total 578 And only few servers on WoW can match Vanguard...
I'm glad that Vanguard does seem to have a healthy population. Still, the WoW comparison is weird... right now it's wednesday early afternoon (3PM), so very few people should be online. I checked the realm I am normally on, and it's about 700 to 800 people who are playing there right now.
I'm beginning to think that Vanguard forum is more popular that WoW's forum. In the past few weeks every topic was viewed hundreds of times per day, and response times for each post are within minutes.
Their could be several reasons :
Recent downfall of FF14.
Nothing else to look forward to.
Population of Vanguard is now stable ( only two servers, but that's still ok ).
People hate Vanguard, going off old facts.
Bugs are fixed as well as most mmo's.
Computers can now play it better than EQ2.
Why do people Hate Vanguard so much. I hate SOE too !!
The bad launch was two years ago, It's fixed, It does not need support. Many zones for all levels, the re play value is up their with WoW and EQ1 & 2. Crafting is prob the best. Max level ? Start a new toon !
On WoW's lowest population servers it *might* be comparable. On everything normal or above, 578 is pitiful in comparison.
Ok you hate Vanguard, Why ?
I hate misinformation. And I don't know why to be honest.
I have at least 6 characters on WoW. Most all on diff servers.
Last month, six months ago, and last year EVERY ZONE WAS DEAD, You play solo, or use the dungeon finder to find groups. Run thru the dungeons so fast it could make your head spin, no one waits for buffs, some are three hallways in before you load it up on your screen. MY Warlock got cornered by a mob, I asked for help. You know what the response was ? Zone out, and use the Dungeon finder to bring you back in !......What kind of immersion was that ?
I'll admit I loved WoW, some burn out but the worlds are dead. I can get people much faster to group in Vanguard than any server on WoW...........I miss it, but you can't bring back the past.
No immersion at all. WoW is not the same game it used to be.
I have at least 6 characters on WoW. Most all on diff servers.
Last month, six months ago, and last year EVERY ZONE WAS DEAD, You play solo, or use the dungeon finder to find groups. Run thru the dungeons so fast it could make your head spin, no one waits for buffs, some are three hallways in before you load it up on your screen. MY Warlock got cornered by a mob, I asked for help. You know what the response was ? Zone out, and use the Dungeon finder to bring you back in !......What kind of immersion was that ?
I'll admit I loved WoW, some burn out but the worlds are dead. I can get people much faster to group in Vanguard than any server on WoW...........I miss it, but you can't bring back the past.
No immersion at all. WoW is not the same game it used to be.
Yeah... I actually haven't played WoW for a long time. My bro still plays though. I just found it weird that you would try and compare population numbers on the Vanguard servers to WoW servers.
Are you trying to get more people to play this game by posting those server populations? I fear they might have the opposite effect.
Someone stating that 578 players is not healthy for a game with 1 server left does not in any way mean they hate vanguard.
I think most in this thread would love to see vanguard get the development it desperatly needs, but that isn't going to happen to a game with so few players. We are litterly debating the health of an MMO that is measured is hundreds of players and trying to turn that into some positive when the game used to have thousands of players on each server and even then it was considered spread out due to the landmass of the game.
I love what they've done to Vanguard. I'm an old EQ1 vet and it's the closest I've seen to the same kind of immersion. I played in beta and hated it because of all of the bugs, came back about a year ago and played for 6 months, then quit.
Unfortunately, the reason I'm not subscribed and think a lot of people aren't is related to population, but not directly. I see no future development at all. I really do not want to devote a years time to a game that most likely will have no content updates when there are several single player (or lobby based multiplayer) games available.
Without the large numbers of people coming into the game, SOE will see little reason to pump more money into development. Without development, they won't receive large numbers of people. I understand I'm "part of the problem" by not re-subscribing to the game according to some folks, but #1, I can't see 10,000 people coming back to the game and #2, Vanguard is a product...and like all products, it's the developers/designers/maintainers responsibility to promote that product. I don't see any promotions or advertisements for this game anywhere. I don't want to give money to an organization that has no faith in their game or playerbase.
I have at least 6 characters on WoW. Most all on diff servers.
Last month, six months ago, and last year EVERY ZONE WAS DEAD, You play solo, or use the dungeon finder to find groups. Run thru the dungeons so fast it could make your head spin, no one waits for buffs, some are three hallways in before you load it up on your screen. MY Warlock got cornered by a mob, I asked for help. You know what the response was ? Zone out, and use the Dungeon finder to bring you back in !......What kind of immersion was that ?
I'll admit I loved WoW, some burn out but the worlds are dead. I can get people much faster to group in Vanguard than any server on WoW...........I miss it, but you can't bring back the past.
No immersion at all. WoW is not the same game it used to be.
Yeah... I actually haven't played WoW for a long time. My bro still plays though. I just found it weird that you would try and compare population numbers on the Vanguard servers to WoW servers.
Are you trying to get more people to play this game by posting those server populations? I fear they might have the opposite effect.
I'll be honest " yes ".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not selfish, I'm not trying to increase the population to benefit me. I HAVE A FULL PROF METHOD TO FIND OTHERS ( using the social panel ).
I'm trying very hard to give others an MMO to play. I'm trying to desperately spread the word that Vanguard is fixed, and well populated.
I do regret, and I should know better here on mmorpg.com ( being a long time vet ) that it's best to never list other mmo's, as this really pisses people off.
I actually just recently cancelled my VSoH account. The game is great, but its meant to be a socially played game and I found in the last few month that I spent a lot of time playing solo. The overall game population even with 2 servers was abysmal at best and horribly pathetic most the time.
The few people that are left are the players that stuck through all the horrible times and truly appreciate the world for all it has to offer and are probably very good people to play in the MMO universe with. Unfortunately, there are so few left that the social aspect is completely lacking. The last time I signed on to the game (approx 9:30pm EST) I played for almost two full hours and only saw one other player the entire time. I started searching class by class to see how many people I could find total. Less than 200 names by count at 9:30/10:00pm EST. Again, this isnt because the game is bad, its a lack of interest by the general MMO population coupled with a lack of marketing/advertising by the publisher and developer.
VSoH doesnt have the name behind it like WoW does, and it doesnt have the history that EVE online has. For the game to become successful again SOE is going to have to drop some serious money into advertising and will probably need to look into some changes to the current system. As the game stands now it is basically a small group or solo style game set in a huge world. Flame on if you want to call me a hater, but I actually loved this game and played from beta until just recently. I am saddened by the eventual outcome of the game but will find something different to play that has more people to provide a higher level of social interaction.
General problems that people have with this game as listed to me on multiple occasions:
(1) Lack of player vs player content.
(2) General imbalance of classes and poor class interaction in raid/group play (dont ask me - I didnt see this but many people complained about it).
(3) Huge amounts of travel time (somewhat fixed with the teleport system but still get lots of complaints about this when talking to people about VSoH).
(4) Its just a bigger and prettier version of so many other games that were put out before it --- its all been done before.
Maybe SOE will give this game some love, and actually give it a new heartbeat, but I am not holding my breath on this one.
I actually just recently cancelled my VSoH account. The game is great, but its meant to be a socially played game and I found in the last few month that I spent a lot of time playing solo. The overall game population even with 2 servers was abysmal at best and horribly pathetic most the time.
The few people that are left are the players that stuck through all the horrible times and truly appreciate the world for all it has to offer and are probably very good people to play in the MMO universe with. Unfortunately, there are so few left that the social aspect is completely lacking. The last time I signed on to the game (approx 9:30pm EST) I played for almost two full hours and only saw one other player the entire time. I started searching class by class to see how many people I could find total. Less than 200 names by count at 9:30/10:00pm EST. Again, this isnt because the game is bad, its a lack of interest by the general MMO population coupled with a lack of marketing/advertising by the publisher and developer.
VSoH doesnt have the name behind it like WoW does, and it doesnt have the history that EVE online has. For the game to become successful again SOE is going to have to drop some serious money into advertising and will probably need to look into some changes to the current system. As the game stands now it is basically a small group or solo style game set in a huge world. Flame on if you want to call me a hater, but I actually loved this game and played from beta until just recently. I am saddened by the eventual outcome of the game but will find something different to play that has more people to provide a higher level of social interaction.
General problems that people have with this game as listed to me on multiple occasions:
(1) Lack of player vs player content.
(2) General imbalance of classes and poor class interaction in raid/group play (dont ask me - I didnt see this but many people complained about it).
(3) Huge amounts of travel time (somewhat fixed with the teleport system but still get lots of complaints about this when talking to people about VSoH).
(4) Its just a bigger and prettier version of so many other games that were put out before it --- its all been done before.
Maybe SOE will give this game some love, and actually give it a new heartbeat, but I am not holding my breath on this one.
I'm not convinced of your list.
There was a pvp server but no one played on it. I really don't think lack of pvp is an issue with Vanguard. LOTRO is a pve game with a side of pvp and it does just fine.
I Can't speak to the imbalance of classes, don't really know why this is an issue in a pve game because every class can do something and offer something unique.
The travel time is part of what makes Vanguard great. But that sentiment is on a sliding scale. There are people who hate the teleport system. I personally like it. But there are people who want games to be like guildwars where you just bring up your ap and go. That tends to ruin the feeling of a world.
As far a it being done before, I also dont' think that is a huge issue. Most mmo's that are out at the moment have pretty similar game play. You do a quest or grind mobs. Etc.
Vanguard suffers from a poor launch, it still has some technical glitches, it is not as actively developed therefore players are loath to put time into it, players tend to want to play what everyone else is playing and if people aren't playing vanguard then they stay away (chicken and the egg) It's not as polished as other games out there.
if Sony put lots of money into it, polished the hell out of it and had regular content updates like EQ 2 then there would be more poeple. Not a ton because the game doesn't cater to everyone but you would get people confident in the future of the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'm trying very hard to give others an MMO to play. I'm trying to desperately spread the word that Vanguard is fixed, and well populated.
Could you please clarify how Vanguard is now fixed? I resubbed back in May/June after reading similar posts here and found some of the same bugs that were in the game when I started beta back in November 2005.
I love Telon, the unique classes, the challenging gameplay, and huge non-instanced dungeons similar to original EQ, but the game is still extremely buggy and sluggish for a game that launched almost 4 years.
I'm trying very hard to give others an MMO to play. I'm trying to desperately spread the word that Vanguard is fixed, and well populated.
Could you please clarify how Vanguard is now fixed? I resubbed back in May/June after reading similar posts here and found some of the same bugs that were in the game when I started beta back in November 2005.
I love Telon, the unique classes, the challenging gameplay, and huge non-instanced dungeons similar to original EQ, but the game is still extremely buggy and sluggish for a game that launched almost 4 years.
I would say it is more polished but there are still some odd glitches here and there. In some cases they can be very frustrating to players.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Not trying to sound arrogant, but the list is based off information gathered through community forums, so whether you think they are viable reasons people do not like the game is a matter of opinion. Those were the complaints other VSoH players stated as the reasons they left the game.
As for poor release, very few MMO games have stellar releases. I was there for the release of EQ and EQII and neither of those games had good releases. Lineage II had one server that crashed and was unplayable for almost the entire first week and the other 4 servers were so laggy it was hard to even turn at times or you would rubberband and loose about 2 minutes or more of movement. I could continue to list poor releases that have become successful games. Look at DAoC, they released the game and several zones didnt even have loot tables for the mobs encountered and it was a PVP based game with serious class imbalances. They also had latency problems at release, the crafting system was crap and had to be revamped, ect ect, but the game became extremely successful and is still playable today, and still has enough population to be fun at times. So a poor release is not an excuse for people not playing the game.
VSoH is actually one of the most polished games out, very few other games have better graphics, more detailed systems (crafting, diplo, adventuring), and almost none of the games have the great quest lines that VSoH has. I have seen more people playing Perfect World International than VSoH, and the systems there are very simplistic and the graphics are ok at best. So the spit shine on the game isnt the major factor of people not wanting to play either.
It all comes down to the lack of community and in all honesty community is fostered by having really good character systems in which each character class has a significant impact on the overall group/raid/guild or by instituting a pvp system that brings the player base together with a purpose. So if the character classes are not properly balanced and the class is easily replaced by another that can bring more to the group then people become unhappy playing their chosen class and eventually will find it almost impossible to get into a decent group. Top that off with a non existent pvp system and people start leaving the game. While some people enjoy actually moving around and seeing all the visual content in a game (I have hundreds of VSoH screenshots as it is one of the most graphically stunning worlds created), other people simply want to get to where they need to be. Time constraints of work, family, and other social interest motivates them to spend less time in game but they still want to be able to do something other than spend 30 minutes running from quest giver to quest mob and back. So now another group of people begin to leave the game, making the community even smaller.
Add in all the other little problems that you find in almost all MMO games and more people leave, then you add in the boredom of the fact that the game brought nothing truly new to the table, more people leave.... and here we are.... magic formula for what is happing to VSoH solved.
VSoH did not start with the client base of WoW or LOTRO due to the number of fanboys those two games have, and even LOTRO has gone F2P with cashshop/premium status system because it was failing as P2P. SOE will need to do something intense and attention holding to get VSoH back up and going strong again.
Not trying to sound arrogant, but the list is based off information gathered through community forums, so whether you think they are viable reasons people do not like the game is a matter of opinion. Those were the complaints other VSoH players stated as the reasons they left the game.
As for poor release, very few MMO games have stellar releases. I was there for the release of EQ and EQII and neither of those games had good releases. Lineage II had one server that crashed and was unplayable for almost the entire first week and the other 4 servers were so laggy it was hard to even turn at times or you would rubberband and loose about 2 minutes or more of movement. I could continue to list poor releases that have become successful games. Look at DAoC, they released the game and several zones didnt even have loot tables for the mobs encountered and it was a PVP based game with serious class imbalances. They also had latency problems at release, the crafting system was crap and had to be revamped, ect ect, but the game became extremely successful and is still playable today, and still has enough population to be fun at times. So a poor release is not an excuse for people not playing the game.
VSoH is actually one of the most polished games out, very few other games have better graphics, more detailed systems (crafting, diplo, adventuring), and almost none of the games have the great quest lines that VSoH has. I have seen more people playing Perfect World International than VSoH, and the systems there are very simplistic and the graphics are ok at best. So the spit shine on the game isnt the major factor of people not wanting to play either.
It all comes down to the lack of community and in all honesty community is fostered by having really good character systems in which each character class has a significant impact on the overall group/raid/guild or by instituting a pvp system that brings the player base together with a purpose. So if the character classes are not properly balanced and the class is easily replaced by another that can bring more to the group then people become unhappy playing their chosen class and eventually will find it almost impossible to get into a decent group. Top that off with a non existent pvp system and people start leaving the game. While some people enjoy actually moving around and seeing all the visual content in a game (I have hundreds of VSoH screenshots as it is one of the most graphically stunning worlds created), other people simply want to get to where they need to be. Time constraints of work, family, and other social interest motivates them to spend less time in game but they still want to be able to do something other than spend 30 minutes running from quest giver to quest mob and back. So now another group of people begin to leave the game, making the community even smaller.
Add in all the other little problems that you find in almost all MMO games and more people leave, then you add in the boredom of the fact that the game brought nothing truly new to the table, more people leave.... and here we are.... magic formula for what is happing to VSoH solved.
VSoH did not start with the client base of WoW or LOTRO due to the number of fanboys those two games have, and even LOTRO has gone F2P with cashshop/premium status system because it was failing as P2P. SOE will need to do something intense and attention holding to get VSoH back up and going strong again.
Is anyone of an opion that there could be a " Vanguard II "
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
I would say it is more polished but there are still some odd glitches here and there. In some cases they can be very frustrating to players.
This I can fully believe and actually felt the same way when I returned to VG. The problem is, just about every other MMO on the market either has fewer bugs and glitches or has a development team to fix them. SOE couldn't fix all those bugs when it had a full development team working on the project so most of us have accepted that they will never get fixed with the small skeleton crew they have maintaining the game now.
It really is a shame too. People want to play this game, me included, but SOEs lack of support for it, prevent the majority of players from subscribing after the trial.
Not trying to sound arrogant, but the list is based off information gathered through community forums, so whether you think they are viable reasons people do not like the game is a matter of opinion. Those were the complaints other VSoH players stated as the reasons they left the game.
As for poor release, very few MMO games have stellar releases. I was there for the release of EQ and EQII and neither of those games had good releases. Lineage II had one server that crashed and was unplayable for almost the entire first week and the other 4 servers were so laggy it was hard to even turn at times or you would rubberband and loose about 2 minutes or more of movement. I could continue to list poor releases that have become successful games. Look at DAoC, they released the game and several zones didnt even have loot tables for the mobs encountered and it was a PVP based game with serious class imbalances. They also had latency problems at release, the crafting system was crap and had to be revamped, ect ect, but the game became extremely successful and is still playable today, and still has enough population to be fun at times. So a poor release is not an excuse for people not playing the game.
VSoH is actually one of the most polished games out, very few other games have better graphics, more detailed systems (crafting, diplo, adventuring), and almost none of the games have the great quest lines that VSoH has. I have seen more people playing Perfect World International than VSoH, and the systems there are very simplistic and the graphics are ok at best. So the spit shine on the game isnt the major factor of people not wanting to play either.
It all comes down to the lack of community and in all honesty community is fostered by having really good character systems in which each character class has a significant impact on the overall group/raid/guild or by instituting a pvp system that brings the player base together with a purpose. So if the character classes are not properly balanced and the class is easily replaced by another that can bring more to the group then people become unhappy playing their chosen class and eventually will find it almost impossible to get into a decent group. Top that off with a non existent pvp system and people start leaving the game. While some people enjoy actually moving around and seeing all the visual content in a game (I have hundreds of VSoH screenshots as it is one of the most graphically stunning worlds created), other people simply want to get to where they need to be. Time constraints of work, family, and other social interest motivates them to spend less time in game but they still want to be able to do something other than spend 30 minutes running from quest giver to quest mob and back. So now another group of people begin to leave the game, making the community even smaller.
Add in all the other little problems that you find in almost all MMO games and more people leave, then you add in the boredom of the fact that the game brought nothing truly new to the table, more people leave.... and here we are.... magic formula for what is happing to VSoH solved.
VSoH did not start with the client base of WoW or LOTRO due to the number of fanboys those two games have, and even LOTRO has gone F2P with cashshop/premium status system because it was failing as P2P. SOE will need to do something intense and attention holding to get VSoH back up and going strong again.
I'm still not convinced.
Here's why.
Sure, very few mmo's have great launches but there is a difference between an atrocious launch and what constitutes a bad launch. I've seen people claim that wow had a bad launch. from my experience that wasn't the case at all. The issues that wow had at at launch pale in comparison to Vanguard. I was there a few weeks after Lineage 2 launched and experienced some of the issue and quirks but still, vanguard had larger issues.
Aside from lots of locking up there were characters without bodies, doors that didn't have textures, glitches that would transport you elsewhere, etc. And at this time WoW was already released and was a far more polished game. Now there is an example of how polished a game can be and players then put up with less.
I don't doubt that what you've seen on the forums is true. But I've also looked at the main forum and there are players who like the large world of vanguard and hate the current teleport system. these are the players who were very invested in having a "world" over a game.
Just because a player leaves because of large travel times doesn't mean that this is a bad thing. It means the game wasn't for them. IF a player leaves because there is no pvp then it isn't a flaw in the game. It means that the game isn't for them. I don't see a large amount of hardcore pvp'ers in LOTRO either.
II'll edit this to be more clear. having multiple classes that can do multiple things is good. Are they actually so imbalanced so that no one wants "class x". well, that I don't know. Iv'e seen some crazy vanguard groupings in game and it was never an issue with me the few times I've grouped. But all that does is make players gravitate toward certain classes if that's true. Not great but I don't see that driving players off. Especially since classes are constantly balanced, nerfed, etc.
If anyting it fosters community because it takes less to make a group. Less waiting around. I'm sure players would rather have a "good" healer then wait for the most awesome healer?
Vanguard had a really bad launch at a time when the mmo industry was starting to grow and there was more choice out there. It catered to old school players and wasn't attractive to casuals as it (at the time) catered to groupers. Many of its issues persisted and drove players away.
That and not having full time love from Sony and it suddenly became less attractive. Don't get me wrong, Sony did a good job cleaning it up. But it's cleaned up. It's not getting the type of attention an EQ 2 would get.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
You know if someone at Sony would wake up and see that there is still some interest in Vanguard and were to put some folks to work on an expansion down the road. Wonder how the gaming community would react? Food for thought.
MAGA
I'm glad that Vanguard does seem to have a healthy population. Still, the WoW comparison is weird... right now it's wednesday early afternoon (3PM), so very few people should be online. I checked the realm I am normally on, and it's about 700 to 800 people who are playing there right now.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I'm beginning to think that Vanguard forum is more popular that WoW's forum. In the past few weeks every topic was viewed hundreds of times per day, and response times for each post are within minutes.
Their could be several reasons :
Recent downfall of FF14.
Nothing else to look forward to.
Population of Vanguard is now stable ( only two servers, but that's still ok ).
People hate Vanguard, going off old facts.
Bugs are fixed as well as most mmo's.
Computers can now play it better than EQ2.
Why do people Hate Vanguard so much. I hate SOE too !!
The bad launch was two years ago, It's fixed, It does not need support. Many zones for all levels, the re play value is up their with WoW and EQ1 & 2. Crafting is prob the best. Max level ? Start a new toon !
On WoW's lowest population servers it *might* be comparable. On everything normal or above, 578 is pitiful in comparison.
Ok you hate Vanguard, Why ?
I hate misinformation. And I don't know why to be honest.
Thats easy he knows its a decent game and is protecting his game wow.
MAGA
Ok you hate WoW, Why ?
I do not hate WoW ive bought the CE for new expansion i was responding to the guy who was comparing Vanguard to WoW. I think both are decent games.
MAGA
Well then. I would like to say that I find the picture in your post hilarious.
I have at least 6 characters on WoW. Most all on diff servers.
Last month, six months ago, and last year EVERY ZONE WAS DEAD, You play solo, or use the dungeon finder to find groups. Run thru the dungeons so fast it could make your head spin, no one waits for buffs, some are three hallways in before you load it up on your screen. MY Warlock got cornered by a mob, I asked for help. You know what the response was ? Zone out, and use the Dungeon finder to bring you back in !......What kind of immersion was that ?
I'll admit I loved WoW, some burn out but the worlds are dead. I can get people much faster to group in Vanguard than any server on WoW...........I miss it, but you can't bring back the past.
No immersion at all. WoW is not the same game it used to be.
Yeah... I actually haven't played WoW for a long time. My bro still plays though. I just found it weird that you would try and compare population numbers on the Vanguard servers to WoW servers.
Are you trying to get more people to play this game by posting those server populations? I fear they might have the opposite effect.
What is with the strawman attacks?
Someone stating that 578 players is not healthy for a game with 1 server left does not in any way mean they hate vanguard.
I think most in this thread would love to see vanguard get the development it desperatly needs, but that isn't going to happen to a game with so few players. We are litterly debating the health of an MMO that is measured is hundreds of players and trying to turn that into some positive when the game used to have thousands of players on each server and even then it was considered spread out due to the landmass of the game.
I love what they've done to Vanguard. I'm an old EQ1 vet and it's the closest I've seen to the same kind of immersion. I played in beta and hated it because of all of the bugs, came back about a year ago and played for 6 months, then quit.
Unfortunately, the reason I'm not subscribed and think a lot of people aren't is related to population, but not directly. I see no future development at all. I really do not want to devote a years time to a game that most likely will have no content updates when there are several single player (or lobby based multiplayer) games available.
Without the large numbers of people coming into the game, SOE will see little reason to pump more money into development. Without development, they won't receive large numbers of people. I understand I'm "part of the problem" by not re-subscribing to the game according to some folks, but #1, I can't see 10,000 people coming back to the game and #2, Vanguard is a product...and like all products, it's the developers/designers/maintainers responsibility to promote that product. I don't see any promotions or advertisements for this game anywhere. I don't want to give money to an organization that has no faith in their game or playerbase.
I'll be honest " yes ".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not selfish, I'm not trying to increase the population to benefit me. I HAVE A FULL PROF METHOD TO FIND OTHERS ( using the social panel ).
I'm trying very hard to give others an MMO to play. I'm trying to desperately spread the word that Vanguard is fixed, and well populated.
I do regret, and I should know better here on mmorpg.com ( being a long time vet ) that it's best to never list other mmo's, as this really pisses people off.
For that I apologize
I actually just recently cancelled my VSoH account. The game is great, but its meant to be a socially played game and I found in the last few month that I spent a lot of time playing solo. The overall game population even with 2 servers was abysmal at best and horribly pathetic most the time.
The few people that are left are the players that stuck through all the horrible times and truly appreciate the world for all it has to offer and are probably very good people to play in the MMO universe with. Unfortunately, there are so few left that the social aspect is completely lacking. The last time I signed on to the game (approx 9:30pm EST) I played for almost two full hours and only saw one other player the entire time. I started searching class by class to see how many people I could find total. Less than 200 names by count at 9:30/10:00pm EST. Again, this isnt because the game is bad, its a lack of interest by the general MMO population coupled with a lack of marketing/advertising by the publisher and developer.
VSoH doesnt have the name behind it like WoW does, and it doesnt have the history that EVE online has. For the game to become successful again SOE is going to have to drop some serious money into advertising and will probably need to look into some changes to the current system. As the game stands now it is basically a small group or solo style game set in a huge world. Flame on if you want to call me a hater, but I actually loved this game and played from beta until just recently. I am saddened by the eventual outcome of the game but will find something different to play that has more people to provide a higher level of social interaction.
General problems that people have with this game as listed to me on multiple occasions:
(1) Lack of player vs player content.
(2) General imbalance of classes and poor class interaction in raid/group play (dont ask me - I didnt see this but many people complained about it).
(3) Huge amounts of travel time (somewhat fixed with the teleport system but still get lots of complaints about this when talking to people about VSoH).
(4) Its just a bigger and prettier version of so many other games that were put out before it --- its all been done before.
Maybe SOE will give this game some love, and actually give it a new heartbeat, but I am not holding my breath on this one.
I'm not convinced of your list.
There was a pvp server but no one played on it. I really don't think lack of pvp is an issue with Vanguard. LOTRO is a pve game with a side of pvp and it does just fine.
I Can't speak to the imbalance of classes, don't really know why this is an issue in a pve game because every class can do something and offer something unique.
The travel time is part of what makes Vanguard great. But that sentiment is on a sliding scale. There are people who hate the teleport system. I personally like it. But there are people who want games to be like guildwars where you just bring up your ap and go. That tends to ruin the feeling of a world.
As far a it being done before, I also dont' think that is a huge issue. Most mmo's that are out at the moment have pretty similar game play. You do a quest or grind mobs. Etc.
Vanguard suffers from a poor launch, it still has some technical glitches, it is not as actively developed therefore players are loath to put time into it, players tend to want to play what everyone else is playing and if people aren't playing vanguard then they stay away (chicken and the egg) It's not as polished as other games out there.
if Sony put lots of money into it, polished the hell out of it and had regular content updates like EQ 2 then there would be more poeple. Not a ton because the game doesn't cater to everyone but you would get people confident in the future of the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Could you please clarify how Vanguard is now fixed? I resubbed back in May/June after reading similar posts here and found some of the same bugs that were in the game when I started beta back in November 2005.
I love Telon, the unique classes, the challenging gameplay, and huge non-instanced dungeons similar to original EQ, but the game is still extremely buggy and sluggish for a game that launched almost 4 years.
I would say it is more polished but there are still some odd glitches here and there. In some cases they can be very frustrating to players.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Not trying to sound arrogant, but the list is based off information gathered through community forums, so whether you think they are viable reasons people do not like the game is a matter of opinion. Those were the complaints other VSoH players stated as the reasons they left the game.
As for poor release, very few MMO games have stellar releases. I was there for the release of EQ and EQII and neither of those games had good releases. Lineage II had one server that crashed and was unplayable for almost the entire first week and the other 4 servers were so laggy it was hard to even turn at times or you would rubberband and loose about 2 minutes or more of movement. I could continue to list poor releases that have become successful games. Look at DAoC, they released the game and several zones didnt even have loot tables for the mobs encountered and it was a PVP based game with serious class imbalances. They also had latency problems at release, the crafting system was crap and had to be revamped, ect ect, but the game became extremely successful and is still playable today, and still has enough population to be fun at times. So a poor release is not an excuse for people not playing the game.
VSoH is actually one of the most polished games out, very few other games have better graphics, more detailed systems (crafting, diplo, adventuring), and almost none of the games have the great quest lines that VSoH has. I have seen more people playing Perfect World International than VSoH, and the systems there are very simplistic and the graphics are ok at best. So the spit shine on the game isnt the major factor of people not wanting to play either.
It all comes down to the lack of community and in all honesty community is fostered by having really good character systems in which each character class has a significant impact on the overall group/raid/guild or by instituting a pvp system that brings the player base together with a purpose. So if the character classes are not properly balanced and the class is easily replaced by another that can bring more to the group then people become unhappy playing their chosen class and eventually will find it almost impossible to get into a decent group. Top that off with a non existent pvp system and people start leaving the game. While some people enjoy actually moving around and seeing all the visual content in a game (I have hundreds of VSoH screenshots as it is one of the most graphically stunning worlds created), other people simply want to get to where they need to be. Time constraints of work, family, and other social interest motivates them to spend less time in game but they still want to be able to do something other than spend 30 minutes running from quest giver to quest mob and back. So now another group of people begin to leave the game, making the community even smaller.
Add in all the other little problems that you find in almost all MMO games and more people leave, then you add in the boredom of the fact that the game brought nothing truly new to the table, more people leave.... and here we are.... magic formula for what is happing to VSoH solved.
VSoH did not start with the client base of WoW or LOTRO due to the number of fanboys those two games have, and even LOTRO has gone F2P with cashshop/premium status system because it was failing as P2P. SOE will need to do something intense and attention holding to get VSoH back up and going strong again.
Is anyone of an opion that there could be a " Vanguard II "
MAGA
Yeah, it is called EverQuest Next.
This I can fully believe and actually felt the same way when I returned to VG. The problem is, just about every other MMO on the market either has fewer bugs and glitches or has a development team to fix them. SOE couldn't fix all those bugs when it had a full development team working on the project so most of us have accepted that they will never get fixed with the small skeleton crew they have maintaining the game now.
It really is a shame too. People want to play this game, me included, but SOEs lack of support for it, prevent the majority of players from subscribing after the trial.
I'm still not convinced.
Here's why.
Sure, very few mmo's have great launches but there is a difference between an atrocious launch and what constitutes a bad launch. I've seen people claim that wow had a bad launch. from my experience that wasn't the case at all. The issues that wow had at at launch pale in comparison to Vanguard. I was there a few weeks after Lineage 2 launched and experienced some of the issue and quirks but still, vanguard had larger issues.
Aside from lots of locking up there were characters without bodies, doors that didn't have textures, glitches that would transport you elsewhere, etc. And at this time WoW was already released and was a far more polished game. Now there is an example of how polished a game can be and players then put up with less.
I don't doubt that what you've seen on the forums is true. But I've also looked at the main forum and there are players who like the large world of vanguard and hate the current teleport system. these are the players who were very invested in having a "world" over a game.
Just because a player leaves because of large travel times doesn't mean that this is a bad thing. It means the game wasn't for them. IF a player leaves because there is no pvp then it isn't a flaw in the game. It means that the game isn't for them. I don't see a large amount of hardcore pvp'ers in LOTRO either.
II'll edit this to be more clear. having multiple classes that can do multiple things is good. Are they actually so imbalanced so that no one wants "class x". well, that I don't know. Iv'e seen some crazy vanguard groupings in game and it was never an issue with me the few times I've grouped. But all that does is make players gravitate toward certain classes if that's true. Not great but I don't see that driving players off. Especially since classes are constantly balanced, nerfed, etc.
If anyting it fosters community because it takes less to make a group. Less waiting around. I'm sure players would rather have a "good" healer then wait for the most awesome healer?
Vanguard had a really bad launch at a time when the mmo industry was starting to grow and there was more choice out there. It catered to old school players and wasn't attractive to casuals as it (at the time) catered to groupers. Many of its issues persisted and drove players away.
That and not having full time love from Sony and it suddenly became less attractive. Don't get me wrong, Sony did a good job cleaning it up. But it's cleaned up. It's not getting the type of attention an EQ 2 would get.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
According to Brad's Log, a lot of players left the game instantly again at launch, after logging in just once and only for minutes.
So they didnt left because of its properties.
They didnt played it because it had too high hardware requirements.
Personally, I prefer a game where you have lower quality of models etc, but which can manage 100 or 200 players on the screen at the same time.
And instead of some shadow magic, I prefer a game where you have extreme viewing distances.