When COH came out it did not have any crafting.. thats one of the reasons why i started playing it!! i got tired of games that invloved people wanting to show off there "bigger sticks" and go " oo look im better then you!!!!" to bad they have not seen the light of day in 2 weeks cuzz they have no life..
Hmm lets see, almost 6 years later 17 free expansion issues.. and 2 major expansions. and there still here!
When COH came out it did not have any crafting.. thats one of the reasons why i started playing it!! i got tired of games that invloved people wanting to show off there "bigger sticks" and go " oo look im better then you!!!!" to bad they have not seen the light of day in 2 weeks cuzz they have no life..
Hmm lets see, almost 6 years later 17 free expansion issues.. and 2 major expansions. and there still here!
Your right, CoH didn't launch with crafting and I'm glad you brought it up. Even CoH's devs learned fast that crafting was needed and it was added. It doesn't take long for devs to discover that combat alone won't keep most people interested.
What's the point of crafting in a super hero MMO anyway? I can understand a fantasy mmo. But super heroe's don't need armor, weapons, potions, necklaces, or rings for the most part. It just wouldn't make sense to have crafting in DCU. I know there is the invention system in COH but I have used it less then a handful of times.
Noble and true, you are the hero other heroes aspire to be. You are a natural leader, selfless and kind, who will put the lives of others above your own, and are steadfast in your pursuit of justice. Take the quiz!
When last did we actually see crafting being fun, useful and integrated with the bigger game ? Like never. Almost every MMO just tacks it on just to say "we have crafting" , but it's usually utter tripe.
So i prefer they make the core game good, if your game is not going to do crafting 110% as in the "full monty" right down to Vendors,Auction Houses and such, don't add it. Most mmos lately i literally groan when i see i need to level some sort of crafting [which is never useful while you level anyway] .
Like, in Vanguard, or EQ2, or EVE.
Making a core game good means putting content in for more than just one play style. To do otherwise relegates your game to a niche market.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Good! I think crafting ruins adventuring fun. Requiring an adventurer to depend on a crafter or to craft themselves to advance adventuring is stupid.
DCUO just got a huge bump in my Hype meter
By all means yes, lets remove any play style that does not suit any players personal preferences.
Removing content from a game simply because it does not suit your personal preferences is never a good thing. Games should be offering their players a wide range of options, not restricting them. The options you personally don't enjoy, you don't have to participate in.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
To those making comments that crafting doesn't make sense in a super hero mmo, how do you feel about super heros running around collecting loot upgrades from criminals to boost their power?
The devs have said there is no crafting, fine.
The devs have said the game will be heavily based on loot upgrades.
Crafting somewhat fits the genre. I'm sure there are examples of heroes and villains struggling over items of power, but somehow I doubt they would all fight over Harley Quinns hat, which is the "reward" for doing one of the first dungeons.
Crafting could have been transformed into some cool sort of investigation type thing. It doesn't necessarily have to be about creating loot. Working on influence in sectors of society, tracking down leads, decoding messages, etc.
When was the last time you saw superman or wonder woman collecting bits/resources to make a new gadget or powerboost? Have you ever daydreamed about your favorite comic book doing that?
Or Batman, The Green Arrow, or to take a step outside the DC milieu, Spider-man, Iron Man, Reed Richards, the Tinkerer, Punisher, none of those have EVER been known to, you know, BUILD anything ever. No crafting turns Iron Man from a brilliant technical genius who designed and built his unique armour, to just some dude who knows how to pilot it. Batman invented, designed, and built EVERYTHING in his arsenal from scratch. Take that away and you pretty much have a ninja in a funky costume.
One of my favorite parts of the Batman films was when Catwoman (Michelle Feiffer) made her costume. DCUO is getting more RPG everytime I hear about it. Maybe it'll be another not-really-an- MMO like Tanks.
Most MMOS I have played crafting is pretty much useless. I know in EQ2 it is a big thing and very useful, however most mmos the only reason you craft is so that you can get to the very highest level and then make some rare drop recipe. If there was no crafting int he majority of mmos it wouldn't make a bit of difference, its just a time money sink. Like I said eq2 aside, thats crafting in most mmos, pointless.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
"the exploration part of these collections could be as addictive as hunting the orbs in Crackdown"
I'm sorry, but: no. Orb collecting in Crackdown was a horrible waste of time. It wasn't "addictive". It was dull. Follow a map to find 800 orbs, hope you don't miss one.
If DCUO goes down this path, at the end of week 1 there will be a YouTube video showing where all the Evidence Orbs can be found.
However, I don't think that will be the way it works - it is more likely that Evidence nodes / Evidence drops will let players collect and then turn in to get access to unique missions. Those unique missions will have a unique enemy with a unique drop.
The point of crafting is to provide players with something else to do than combat. It's an alternate advancement system. Without it, DCUO is left with combat and in-city racing.
This is the way it should be in a game like this. Yes I understand Batman built his toys and Green Arrow tweaks his own ammo and jumping to marvel that Tony Stark built the suit but would you read a comic book or watch a film about Tony just BUILDING the suit? No, probably not. You'd much rather have it in there in a montage or a quick 10 minute passing thing so you can get to the cool Iron man stuff, right?
I wish CO had kept this in mind and left out their junk crafting system. Most MMO's to date just throw in some crap byproduct and call it crafting anyhow. WoW style crafting of Gather X, hit a button and make Y is completely dull and involves almost no real thinking or interaction and face it, the odds of anyone wanting to purchase your crafted items in a game like that are 0 to none, barring a few end game potions and the like anyhow.
SWG had a FULL and rich crafting system, you had to scope out the landscape, sample the resources, set up the harvesters and then choose the resources you were going to used based on a myriad of quality options per resource to make an item that hopefully people would need to buy. FFXIV is doing something unique and fun with crafting in my opinion as well, but again in both of those games that made sense. SWG wasn't really supposed to be about being the Jedi, it was about making a life in the SW universe and its crafting system lent well to that. FFXIV seems to be mixing its crafting in seamlessly with the rest of the world, and making it so that what you craft will in FACT be needed by someone as the NPC vendors seem to offer little more than starter gear.
In a comic book game with a huge IP like DCUO, I would much rather see them focus on the gameplay and feel of the game and the world around it then having us crouch down in the middle of the road for no reason and pull out our hammers (Or bat hammers if you must) so that we can build 25 Kryptonic Nebulizers that nobody needs just to vendor them but hey at least we skilled up so now I can build adamantite undies!
Definitely a thumbs up in this choice.
It's still SOE so I'm staying as far away from it as I can and treating it as if it's something that crawled out from under the reactor in Chernobyl...but still...kudos to this choice.
One of my favorite parts of the Batman films was when Catwoman (Michelle Feiffer) made her costume. DCUO is getting more RPG everytime I hear about it. Maybe it'll be another not-really-an- MMO like Tanks.
Real roleplaying games can have pretty advanced crafting. Heck, one of the first games for AMIGA had crafting of spell by mixing components in a really advanced mechanics, the name of the game eludes me now.
MMOs don't need to have crafting (even if I prefer that). MMOs needs some none combat options, but everything from sneak missions to gambling would work as long as it is fun and slightly addictive.
Guildwars have no crafting and that work pretty fine. Still it would be fun to do a Blue beetle and build some cool stuff.
I notice in dc universe there is skills that in reality have to be built, so what i would have done is players who require tech to make them be powerful will need crafting, But heroes who dont require tech are unable to build anything.
What i would do is make a tech player skills base really weak so thay require to build to boost the strenth but a player who uses super strenth and sonic speed and any other unatual power, will have a much stronger base.
i must admit i dont really care. its a super hero game, not a fantasy game. so what do you need crafting for?? the only thing i can think of is if your super power revolves around tech or something like that, ie ironman. besides that you dont really need it. however i do like the idea of having to explore and the like to get stuff.
Let's be real, usually when a game comes out there are a lot of people who are going to zip through it in like the first month or so and potentially be done. Crafting, if it's done right can prolong that period for those types of gamers. Yeah it slows down the progression, but that isn't necessarily a horrible thing to do in a mmo. Why would a developer want their playerbase to zip through the game and be bored of it before they have time to add new content or an expansion to a game? I think a lot people are assuming that DC Online will have loads and loads of content upon release that will offset the effect of no crafting in game. Well they better hope so. I really would like to see DCUO make a positive impact on the genre, because I am a fan of the super hero genre in general. Making a MMO (with a MMO budget) that has the lifespan of a console game is a failure in my opinion. But hey what do I know...
MMORPG played in order played: Sims Online, WoW, CoX, EQ2, LinksRealm, LOTRO,TOR...and counting
I think its inevitable that this game will be compared to CoH.. and given that so far, DCUO doesnt seem to measure up to COH etc, its hard to see how this is a positive thing, currently there are 2 existing Superhero MMO's .. Champions and CoH, about the only thing i see that DCUO will have going for it, is that it will be playable on a console, though the restrictions this places on the game because of it, may well be one of the major factors for why there is a low takeup for PC players, Console players only have DCUO, PC players get to choose, and out of the 3.. im not even sure it will be in 2nd place... without some radical improvements, i just don't see it.
I dont really see the point of crafting in a game unless you can play a class of character who only does crafting. Superman doesnt collect resources and build stuff. He doesnt buy and sell stuff with fellow superheroes. He doesnt need gadgets or potions.
But I can see a personal crafting like mini game system for gadget characters like Batman. But dont make him collect resources. Just give him a crafting station in his bat cave with preset resources and schematics, and then have Batman choose what he builds or researches to enhance his character. Give him research points as he levels to spend on more gear. Kind of like Batman: AA game.
I dont really see the point of crafting in a game unless you can play a class of character who only does crafting.
Just because its a superhero game, does every character need to be a superhero? What about supporting characters that don't actually do the crimefighting thing themselves? Could be characters that are meant to be played as alts, making and researching gadgets and arcana for their mains, as well as other players who don't like the crafting thing, and would still add some depth to the game. Might also be nice to offset the silliness of a world populated entirely by superheroes.
Obviously, not going to change, but just saying. I don't know why people have such a narrow view of what a superhero MMO should be. Comics aren't just about the central characters, but the rest of the world they take place in, as well.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Who cares about crafting in a superhero game? If that's not your power, cuz you're a scientist or like Forge (I know that he is a Marvel character, I'm still using him as an example), then you should not be able to make crazy gadgets, period.
Well..... what about if your a batman type hero? Ironman (You used marvel so I will as well oO)? Braniac? Gizmo? Cyborg? Lex Luther? I mean especially in DC many hero and villain powers stem from technology and gadgets. Without a decent crafting type of system in place for people to at least make gadgets and what not they've essentially killed the potential of ton of hero and villain types.
This is just one example of how no crafting will impact the game.
All of the characters you cite implicitly have invention as part of their "power set," so you have proven my point. The number of heroes/villians who don't engage in invention far outstrips the number who do. Cyborg and Brainiac are inventions themselves of characters who are not heroes. Batman and Iron Man wouldn't be able to do much of their R&D if it weren't for their vast wealth, which I have always felt, means that part of their "power set" is being rich. Being rich, in my mind, is not a heroic attribute.
I think that it would make sense to have crafter characters who can supply their inventions to others, but would have to sacrifice something in the way of combat powers. I don't believe that every character should be able to potentially "invent" the same things as characters whose abilities incorporate the concept of inventor.
What's the point of crafting in a super hero MMO anyway? I can understand a fantasy mmo. But super heroe's don't need armor, weapons, potions, necklaces, or rings for the most part. It just wouldn't make sense to have crafting in DCU. I know there is the invention system in COH but I have used it less then a handful of times.
And whats the point of loot drops in a Super Hero anyway? Super Heroes are supposed to be the "good guys", not criminals looting people they just beat down. Historicly looting was rarelly associated to the "good guys".
Like it or not, Crafting IS content. like PvE is content and like PvP is content.
YOU may not like Crafting, I may not like PvP and that other guy may not like PvE, but neverthenless it IS content. True, it should never be forced on anyone but rather being an Alternative way to play the game.
Saying "I don't like it so it shouldn't have it!" is just idiotic and leads to very shallow (and eventually) failed games.
PS: This was not a personal attack, was just a post about many similar oppinions posted by other ppl.
As a long time player of CoH I'm sure I'm in the demographic that SOE would like to attract with DCUO. This news tells me the game is under-developed. If they had announced some new way ot doing crafting or some innovative alternative then I would be intrigued. But this just smacks of shallowness. Granted crafting drives grinding but it also lends depth. We take the bad with the good.
My thoughts exactly. Sounds shallow and under-developed, another MMO that spent too much on shiny graphics, voice actors, and whatever else, rather than actual content. That is, a decent variety of stuff to actually do in the game.
Seems obvious to me that MMOs cost way too much to make, and they almost all end up being forced to cut corners. Even the most expensive among them. I just wish gameplay weren't the first to get cut, so as to satisfy investors who just want to see pretty screenshots and demos.
We keep hearing people say they're all imitating WoW, but the one thing none of them imitate was the way Blizzard compromised on graphics, so as to insure solid gameplay. Any decent developer has got to realize that to persue such a massive prject as an MMO, major compromises need to be made, and they'd better choose those compromises wisely. Early in development, when they're still outlining what they want the game to be, not after they've run out of time and money.
True indeed... although of late it seem the game companies have decided change from cloning WoW to follow another strategy... cloning the shallow and under-developed games.
More and more games are released with obviously lack of content but with massive PR coverage to hide the rush-jobs. What does the future hold for us? At this rate, i'm already seeing MMO titles being launched with just the name besides the promiss that it will have gameplay in the future.
But But....I wanted to play an "inspired by MacGuyver" type character to makes tactical nukes out of mayonaise and aluminum foil. Damn now what am I going to do with all this mayonaise I farmed.
Comments
When COH came out it did not have any crafting.. thats one of the reasons why i started playing it!! i got tired of games that invloved people wanting to show off there "bigger sticks" and go " oo look im better then you!!!!" to bad they have not seen the light of day in 2 weeks cuzz they have no life..
Hmm lets see, almost 6 years later 17 free expansion issues.. and 2 major expansions. and there still here!
Your right, CoH didn't launch with crafting and I'm glad you brought it up. Even CoH's devs learned fast that crafting was needed and it was added. It doesn't take long for devs to discover that combat alone won't keep most people interested.
What's the point of crafting in a super hero MMO anyway? I can understand a fantasy mmo. But super heroe's don't need armor, weapons, potions, necklaces, or rings for the most part. It just wouldn't make sense to have crafting in DCU. I know there is the invention system in COH but I have used it less then a handful of times.
Noble and true, you are the hero other heroes aspire to be. You are a natural leader, selfless and kind, who will put the lives of others above your own, and are steadfast in your pursuit of justice.
Take the quiz!
Like, in Vanguard, or EQ2, or EVE.
Making a core game good means putting content in for more than just one play style. To do otherwise relegates your game to a niche market.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
By all means yes, lets remove any play style that does not suit any players personal preferences.
Removing content from a game simply because it does not suit your personal preferences is never a good thing. Games should be offering their players a wide range of options, not restricting them. The options you personally don't enjoy, you don't have to participate in.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
To those making comments that crafting doesn't make sense in a super hero mmo, how do you feel about super heros running around collecting loot upgrades from criminals to boost their power?
The devs have said there is no crafting, fine.
The devs have said the game will be heavily based on loot upgrades.
Crafting somewhat fits the genre. I'm sure there are examples of heroes and villains struggling over items of power, but somehow I doubt they would all fight over Harley Quinns hat, which is the "reward" for doing one of the first dungeons.
Crafting could have been transformed into some cool sort of investigation type thing. It doesn't necessarily have to be about creating loot. Working on influence in sectors of society, tracking down leads, decoding messages, etc.
One of my favorite parts of the Batman films was when Catwoman (Michelle Feiffer) made her costume. DCUO is getting more RPG everytime I hear about it. Maybe it'll be another not-really-an- MMO like Tanks.
Most MMOS I have played crafting is pretty much useless. I know in EQ2 it is a big thing and very useful, however most mmos the only reason you craft is so that you can get to the very highest level and then make some rare drop recipe. If there was no crafting int he majority of mmos it wouldn't make a bit of difference, its just a time money sink. Like I said eq2 aside, thats crafting in most mmos, pointless.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
"the exploration part of these collections could be as addictive as hunting the orbs in Crackdown"
I'm sorry, but: no. Orb collecting in Crackdown was a horrible waste of time. It wasn't "addictive". It was dull. Follow a map to find 800 orbs, hope you don't miss one.
If DCUO goes down this path, at the end of week 1 there will be a YouTube video showing where all the Evidence Orbs can be found.
However, I don't think that will be the way it works - it is more likely that Evidence nodes / Evidence drops will let players collect and then turn in to get access to unique missions. Those unique missions will have a unique enemy with a unique drop.
The point of crafting is to provide players with something else to do than combat. It's an alternate advancement system. Without it, DCUO is left with combat and in-city racing.
Do we really need crafting in a superhero mmo ?? If your get you powers from science sure but crafting in general..no !
This is the way it should be in a game like this. Yes I understand Batman built his toys and Green Arrow tweaks his own ammo and jumping to marvel that Tony Stark built the suit but would you read a comic book or watch a film about Tony just BUILDING the suit? No, probably not. You'd much rather have it in there in a montage or a quick 10 minute passing thing so you can get to the cool Iron man stuff, right?
I wish CO had kept this in mind and left out their junk crafting system. Most MMO's to date just throw in some crap byproduct and call it crafting anyhow. WoW style crafting of Gather X, hit a button and make Y is completely dull and involves almost no real thinking or interaction and face it, the odds of anyone wanting to purchase your crafted items in a game like that are 0 to none, barring a few end game potions and the like anyhow.
SWG had a FULL and rich crafting system, you had to scope out the landscape, sample the resources, set up the harvesters and then choose the resources you were going to used based on a myriad of quality options per resource to make an item that hopefully people would need to buy. FFXIV is doing something unique and fun with crafting in my opinion as well, but again in both of those games that made sense. SWG wasn't really supposed to be about being the Jedi, it was about making a life in the SW universe and its crafting system lent well to that. FFXIV seems to be mixing its crafting in seamlessly with the rest of the world, and making it so that what you craft will in FACT be needed by someone as the NPC vendors seem to offer little more than starter gear.
In a comic book game with a huge IP like DCUO, I would much rather see them focus on the gameplay and feel of the game and the world around it then having us crouch down in the middle of the road for no reason and pull out our hammers (Or bat hammers if you must) so that we can build 25 Kryptonic Nebulizers that nobody needs just to vendor them but hey at least we skilled up so now I can build adamantite undies!
Definitely a thumbs up in this choice.
It's still SOE so I'm staying as far away from it as I can and treating it as if it's something that crawled out from under the reactor in Chernobyl...but still...kudos to this choice.
Real roleplaying games can have pretty advanced crafting. Heck, one of the first games for AMIGA had crafting of spell by mixing components in a really advanced mechanics, the name of the game eludes me now.
MMOs don't need to have crafting (even if I prefer that). MMOs needs some none combat options, but everything from sneak missions to gambling would work as long as it is fun and slightly addictive.
Guildwars have no crafting and that work pretty fine. Still it would be fun to do a Blue beetle and build some cool stuff.
I notice in dc universe there is skills that in reality have to be built, so what i would have done is players who require tech to make them be powerful will need crafting, But heroes who dont require tech are unable to build anything.
What i would do is make a tech player skills base really weak so thay require to build to boost the strenth but a player who uses super strenth and sonic speed and any other unatual power, will have a much stronger base.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/3845509852.png
i must admit i dont really care. its a super hero game, not a fantasy game. so what do you need crafting for?? the only thing i can think of is if your super power revolves around tech or something like that, ie ironman. besides that you dont really need it. however i do like the idea of having to explore and the like to get stuff.
Let's be real, usually when a game comes out there are a lot of people who are going to zip through it in like the first month or so and potentially be done. Crafting, if it's done right can prolong that period for those types of gamers. Yeah it slows down the progression, but that isn't necessarily a horrible thing to do in a mmo. Why would a developer want their playerbase to zip through the game and be bored of it before they have time to add new content or an expansion to a game? I think a lot people are assuming that DC Online will have loads and loads of content upon release that will offset the effect of no crafting in game. Well they better hope so. I really would like to see DCUO make a positive impact on the genre, because I am a fan of the super hero genre in general. Making a MMO (with a MMO budget) that has the lifespan of a console game is a failure in my opinion. But hey what do I know...
MMORPG played in order played: Sims Online, WoW, CoX, EQ2, LinksRealm, LOTRO,TOR...and counting
I think its inevitable that this game will be compared to CoH.. and given that so far, DCUO doesnt seem to measure up to COH etc, its hard to see how this is a positive thing, currently there are 2 existing Superhero MMO's .. Champions and CoH, about the only thing i see that DCUO will have going for it, is that it will be playable on a console, though the restrictions this places on the game because of it, may well be one of the major factors for why there is a low takeup for PC players, Console players only have DCUO, PC players get to choose, and out of the 3.. im not even sure it will be in 2nd place... without some radical improvements, i just don't see it.
No crafting for a super hero mmo sounds good to me.
I never did care for the crafting in CoH and the system in CO was even worse.
It's fine if your hero is a techy but for superman type? No way.
I dont really see the point of crafting in a game unless you can play a class of character who only does crafting. Superman doesnt collect resources and build stuff. He doesnt buy and sell stuff with fellow superheroes. He doesnt need gadgets or potions.
But I can see a personal crafting like mini game system for gadget characters like Batman. But dont make him collect resources. Just give him a crafting station in his bat cave with preset resources and schematics, and then have Batman choose what he builds or researches to enhance his character. Give him research points as he levels to spend on more gear. Kind of like Batman: AA game.
Just because its a superhero game, does every character need to be a superhero? What about supporting characters that don't actually do the crimefighting thing themselves? Could be characters that are meant to be played as alts, making and researching gadgets and arcana for their mains, as well as other players who don't like the crafting thing, and would still add some depth to the game. Might also be nice to offset the silliness of a world populated entirely by superheroes.
Obviously, not going to change, but just saying. I don't know why people have such a narrow view of what a superhero MMO should be. Comics aren't just about the central characters, but the rest of the world they take place in, as well.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
All of the characters you cite implicitly have invention as part of their "power set," so you have proven my point. The number of heroes/villians who don't engage in invention far outstrips the number who do. Cyborg and Brainiac are inventions themselves of characters who are not heroes. Batman and Iron Man wouldn't be able to do much of their R&D if it weren't for their vast wealth, which I have always felt, means that part of their "power set" is being rich. Being rich, in my mind, is not a heroic attribute.
I think that it would make sense to have crafter characters who can supply their inventions to others, but would have to sacrifice something in the way of combat powers. I don't believe that every character should be able to potentially "invent" the same things as characters whose abilities incorporate the concept of inventor.
I don't even believe in Jeebus.
And whats the point of loot drops in a Super Hero anyway? Super Heroes are supposed to be the "good guys", not criminals looting people they just beat down. Historicly looting was rarelly associated to the "good guys".
Like it or not, Crafting IS content. like PvE is content and like PvP is content.
YOU may not like Crafting, I may not like PvP and that other guy may not like PvE, but neverthenless it IS content. True, it should never be forced on anyone but rather being an Alternative way to play the game.
Saying "I don't like it so it shouldn't have it!" is just idiotic and leads to very shallow (and eventually) failed games.
PS: This was not a personal attack, was just a post about many similar oppinions posted by other ppl.
True indeed... although of late it seem the game companies have decided change from cloning WoW to follow another strategy... cloning the shallow and under-developed games.
More and more games are released with obviously lack of content but with massive PR coverage to hide the rush-jobs. What does the future hold for us? At this rate, i'm already seeing MMO titles being launched with just the name besides the promiss that it will have gameplay in the future.
Depressing...
Too often crafting=time sink anyway. Its one mmo mainstay I could easily do without.
Crafting also brings other activities to do in the game other then combat.
Hahahah!
nice