Which Rodian spoke basic in the PM? I don't quite remember that, most I've seen in movies and games have spoke rodian, with subtitles. Not saying it didn't happen of course, I just don't remember that.
It was Anikans little rhodian buddy, Wald. Says something to the tune of "you did it, Ani!" I think he talks in other places, too. Also, Greedo speaks Huttese without any physical limitations, no reason to think he can't speak Basic to some extent.
I feel bad for Bioware. This game is getting to much critisizim. I almost feel like they will lose a fan base if it doesnt so so hot. But I must admit, I have high expectations as well
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
Same thing was said about Star Trek
And they did very well on initial box sales, which was a direct reflection of the IP strength alone and despite all the negative press coming from beta players.
SW:TOR will be the same although I'd be willing to bet their retention numbers will be significantly better. :P
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Which Rodian spoke basic in the PM? I don't quite remember that, most I've seen in movies and games have spoke rodian, with subtitles. Not saying it didn't happen of course, I just don't remember that.
It was Anikans little rhodian buddy, Wald. Says something to the tune of "you did it, Ani!" I think he talks in other places, too. Also, Greedo speaks Huttese without any physical limitations, no reason to think he can't speak Basic to some extent.
Yeah You're probably right, my bad.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Another Star Wars MMO once began with the legendary words: "This is the greatest story ever told: Yours!" And while it had it's flaws and while I am no sandbox purist, I find this entire concept of TOR is way too narrow and limited. And that is where it all falls together.
I support Biowares idea to bring more story to MMOs. I support Bioware's idea to bring a class story that is unique to every class. BUT: Not every freedom can and must be sacrificed for the sake of story. Story need freedom and choice, it needs identity, and not everyone's desired identity is that of a human! We have many different and diverse people with many different dreams and fanasies. Not all can be 100% added to a game. But I just find limiting it to humans is not right. You can tell me what you want. And if you are lucky and your dream is to be human in Star Wars, thats fine. But maybe you consider not all share the same dreams.
I would rather have a bit less story and a bit more freedom, than this railroad gaming. I think it is not so difficult to just make a simple variable "alien" to quit the romance plot. If you play male on a male char as Smuggler I guess they also have a gender variable to check the reaction. So how can it be so difficult just to add a second variable, alien, to also rule out the romance plot. With that many aliens could be played, thinking that prolly Bothans, Rodians, Mon Cal or Nautolans don't have such a different life than humans. (I guess the life of a Miraluka is WAY more different from ours, than say, that of a Rodian or Bothan.)
In the end WE are just as much aliens than any other race. It's just a point of view, and the imagination of people is MUCH broader than Mr. Erickson thinks.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
Same thing was said about Star Trek
And they did very well on initial box sales, which was a direct reflection of the IP strength alone and despite all the negative press coming from beta players.
SW:TOR will be the same although I'd be willing to bet their retention numbers will be significantly better. :P
Every MMO does well wit box sales, but time will tell how well it will do after the Initial box sales
could go up or down heh...no one can tell atm
Anyway I don’t want the game to do bad...would be nice to see a successful game
I am just say the game is going in a bad direction ((But that is just my personal opinion))
I feel bad for Bioware. This game is getting to much critisizim. I almost feel like they will lose a fan base if it doesnt so so hot. But I must admit, I have high expectations as well
I can't say I feel bad for them, even if I agree with your message. They took on the Star Wars license, with that one should expect such criticism. The same thing happened with SWG as well as STO and LOTRO.
With popular IP's like this, you have to expect a segment of those fanbases to be rabid haters of anything that doesn't fit into their interpretation of the lore in question. They knew this going in I'm sure.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
Same thing was said about Star Trek
STO was a rushed MMO on an 18-month development cycle that had numerous problems IN PLAY that people who tried out the beta and otherwise tested it noted before the game came out and it was notably content light. TOR will be released with about 5.5 years of development and so far everyone who plays it likes it or loves it, with the problem list being pretty short (such as they need to tweak some of the animation a little, but much of it is good). The development and kind of reaction each game generated (or is generating) is about as different as night and day.
That said, it still sold quite a lot at launch. The game sucked so it didn't keep many people. I'd bet they made money though, since they spent so little time developing the game.
Beyond that, most of the people "hating" on TOR seem to be using a number of arguments that would be even more powerful if leveled on WoW, a game which is by no stretch a financial failure. (Personally I have played WoW at released and for about 9 months last year, and while it does a lot of things well, I did find it rather repetitive and deprotagonizing -- didn't care for the strict Holy Trinity system either -- and these are things that TOR seems to avoid as well as adding more ways to express yourself.
I know but he was claiming that the game will do well on the IP alone which has been proven wrong several times in the last few years.
Lets be honest the IP alone will not make this game a success otherwise SWG would known as a success and not a failure. The only problem I have with BW's SW MMO is I am fearing too much story. Stories are a great addition to a MMO but should never be the focus. Stories by definition need to have an ending. MMO's by nature are suppose to not have an end. Don't get me wrong I love a good story. That is why all the great story games are Single player RPG's and not MMO's. You are suppose to finish/beat a single player game/story. You are not, by design, suppose to finish/beat a MMO. This my opinion, a game based on a story should be made into a single player RPG. A game based on an idea,Universe, or an entire IP should be made into a MMO with story elements but not driven by a story. When you make a game around a story, choices suffer because what I CHOOSE to do may conflict with the story. So you end up limiting my choices to fit your story. So in the end you have a great Single player story game with little choice. The Problem with that is Story games have been around since before Video Games were invented. MMO's only 12 or so years. Not sure why we want our MMO's to go back in time instead of forward. VO's and Story are great but when you start designing a MMO around those and not a Single Player RPG, is where I see the problems arising. MMO's are by design to have alot of replayability and keep you playing. Stories are put aside when done, to be remembered but not revisted to often.
Lets face it the more we hear about SW:TOR the more the devs seem to reveal that the is a game you play but make little choice in how you play or what direction you go. It all seems like a well lit path you HAVE to take instead of several equally lit paths you can choose. Which is fine, just not what I am looking for. I guess we will all have to wait and see. I was super hyped about this game when I first heard about it. Sadly the more I hear, the less hyped i get. Forced Story and Track Space Combat shows a not just a led by the hand MMO but more of a pulled by nose ring tour through a Star Wars Story MMO.
Another Star Wars MMO once began with the legendary words: "This is the greatest story ever told: Yours!" And while it had it's flaws and while I am no sandbox purist, I find this entire concept of TOR is way too narrow and limited. And that is where it all falls together.
I support Biowares idea to bring more story to MMOs. I support Bioware's idea to bring a class story that is unique to every class. BUT: Not every freedom can and must be sacrificed for the sake of story. Story need freedom and choice, it needs identity, and not everyone's desired identity is that of a human! We have many different and diverse people with many different dreams and fanasies. Not all can be 100% added to a game. But I just find limiting it to humans is not right. You can tell me what you want. And if you are lucky and your dream is to be human in Star Wars, thats fine. But maybe you consider not all share the same dreams.
I would rather have a bit less story and a bit more freedom, than this railroad gaming. I think it is not so difficult to just make a simple variable "alien" to quit the romance plot. If you play male on a male char as Smuggler I guess they also have a gender variable to check the reaction. So how can it be so difficult just to add a second variable, alien, to also rule out the romance plot. With that many aliens could be played, thinking that prolly Bothans, Rodians, Mon Cal or Nautolans don't have such a different life than humans. (I guess the life of a Miraluka is WAY more different from ours, than say, that of a Rodian or Bothan.)
In the end WE are just as much aliens than any other race. It's just a point of view, and the imagination of people is MUCH broader than Mr. Erickson thinks.
In the end the vast majority of aliens would be played just like humans (minus a romance plot of you toss in that variable, which would hardly be fair to such players or realistic). Restrictions mean that aliens can actually seem like aliens, rather than humans in funny suits which is how races, no matter how alien, are played on MMOs most of the time. I think it makes perfect sense to restrict races to pretty much humans and near-humans, so long as they capitalize on that decision and make the alien races and cultures really seem unique and alive.
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
Same thing was said about Star Trek
And they did very well on initial box sales, which was a direct reflection of the IP strength alone and despite all the negative press coming from beta players.
SW:TOR will be the same although I'd be willing to bet their retention numbers will be significantly better. :P
Every MMO does well wit box sales, but time will tell how well it will do after the Initial box sales
could go up or down heh...no one can tell atm
Anyway I don’t want the game to do bad...would be nice to see a successful game
I am just say the game is going in a bad direction ((But that is just my personal opinion))
Exactly, only time will tell.
I don't want the game to do poorly either. For me at least, the more that's released about the game the less I find myself interested as many of the directions they are taking do not appeal to me.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Another Star Wars MMO once began with the legendary words: "This is the greatest story ever told: Yours!" And while it had it's flaws and while I am no sandbox purist, I find this entire concept of TOR is way too narrow and limited. And that is where it all falls together.
I support Biowares idea to bring more story to MMOs. I support Bioware's idea to bring a class story that is unique to every class. BUT: Not every freedom can and must be sacrificed for the sake of story. Story need freedom and choice, it needs identity, and not everyone's desired identity is that of a human! We have many different and diverse people with many different dreams and fanasies. Not all can be 100% added to a game. But I just find limiting it to humans is not right. You can tell me what you want. And if you are lucky and your dream is to be human in Star Wars, thats fine. But maybe you consider not all share the same dreams.
I would rather have a bit less story and a bit more freedom, than this railroad gaming. I think it is not so difficult to just make a simple variable "alien" to quit the romance plot. If you play male on a male char as Smuggler I guess they also have a gender variable to check the reaction. So how can it be so difficult just to add a second variable, alien, to also rule out the romance plot. With that many aliens could be played, thinking that prolly Bothans, Rodians, Mon Cal or Nautolans don't have such a different life than humans. (I guess the life of a Miraluka is WAY more different from ours, than say, that of a Rodian or Bothan.)
In the end WE are just as much aliens than any other race. It's just a point of view, and the imagination of people is MUCH broader than Mr. Erickson thinks.
You speak like all the species have been announced. You don't know what other species will be available as they haven't announced them all. Again, we don't know to what point race plays a portion in story. People seem to think that these species are just painted on humans, and if they were, you'd be okay with it as long as you can play pretend. Thats not how these things work, when you're dealing with storylines that take things like, race, sex, and choice into consideration, we don't know how something like the choices of a particular race will mesh.
Its not to say that it can't be done, before launch, or later, but its just another brush with expectation that people have a hard time curbing.
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
Same thing was said about Star Trek
And they did very well on initial box sales, which was a direct reflection of the IP strength alone and despite all the negative press coming from beta players.
SW:TOR will be the same although I'd be willing to bet their retention numbers will be significantly better. :P
Every MMO does well wit box sales, but time will tell how well it will do after the Initial box sales
could go up or down heh...no one can tell atm
Anyway I don’t want the game to do bad...would be nice to see a successful game
I am just say the game is going in a bad direction ((But that is just my personal opinion))
Exactly, only time will tell.
I don't want the game to do poorly either. For me at least, the more that's released about the game the less I find myself interested as many of the directions they are taking do not appeal to me.
Dear god...I need to proofread before I hit the send button.
Lets be honest the IP alone will not make this game a success otherwise SWG would known as a success and not a failure. The only problem I have with BW's SW MMO is I am fearing too much story. Stories are a great addition to a MMO but should never be the focus. Stories by definition need to have an ending. MMO's by nature are suppose to not have an end. Don't get me wrong I love a good story. That is why all the great story games are Single player RPG's and not MMO's. You are suppose to finish/beat a single player game/story. You are not, by design, suppose to finish/beat a MMO. This my opinion, a game based on a story should be made into a single player RPG. A game based on an idea,Universe, or an entire IP should be made into a MMO with story elements but not driven by a story. When you make a game around a story, choices suffer because what I CHOOSE to do may conflict with the story. So you end up limiting my choices to fit your story. So in the end you have a great Single player story game with little choice. The Problem with that is Story games have been around since before Video Games were invented. MMO's only 12 or so years. Not sure why we want our MMO's to go back in time instead of forward. VO's and Story are great but when you start designing a MMO around those and not a Single Player RPG, is where I see the problems arising. MMO's are by design to have alot of replayability and keep you playing. Stories are put aside when done, to be remembered but not revisted to often.
Lets face it the more we hear about SW:TOR the more the devs seem to reveal that the is a game you play but make little choice in how you play or what direction you go. It all seems like a well lit path you HAVE to take instead of several equally lit paths you can choose. Which is fine, just not what I am looking for. I guess we will all have to wait and see. I was super hyped about this game when I first heard about it. Sadly the more I hear, the less hyped i get. Forced Story and Track Space Combat shows a not just a led by the hand MMO but more of a pulled by nose ring tour through a Star Wars Story MMO.
I don't know how you think the game is "going backwards." I find it hilarious you think being given story decisions limit choice in an MMO. Compare TOR to LoTRO or WoW and you'll see that TOR is adding a great deal of choice and decision making that hasn't existed before. You actually GET STORY CHOICES TO MAKE THAT MATTER now, and before you didn't. This doesn't change what sorts of things you can do in a game that is mostly themepark beyond adding to it. MMOs in fact have been sadly lacking in this regard for their entire lifespan, it is hardly going backwards to fix that issue.
As for stories ending, sure, but there are many, many stories to start and just because a story ends EVENTUALLY doesn't mean that it is going to end anytime soon. Eventually the TOR servers will shut down and then the story will certainly end with the last expansion/content addition. That is hardly a limiting factor.
Frankly, your post seems so grossly mis/uninformed that I am not sure what to say. Unique stories for each class somehow mean the game isn't replayable? Multiple decisions for single classes with consequences means they aren't replayable? Other MMOs are VERY replayable? Other MMOs have SOME replayability, but certainly not a lot. TOR is definitely going to have a lot more than anything else on the market.
What exactly is it your want from a Star Wars game? SWG2 where you go wash dishes in a Cantina or something? If you want drudgery in a "sci-fi" setting become a janitor in an R&D facility. I mean, I guess I can sorta...kinda see why someone might want to play Star Wars and avoid epic and awesome plots/stories/events as much as possible, but I find it rather odd. If that's what you really want though, then I have to agree that TOR isn't going to be offering that, nor has it EVER pretended it would. (Though you don't have to do the personal or group story if you don't want to...though I don't see why anyone would completely ignore both).
That said, it still surprises me how many people think that TOR offering far, far more story choices than any MMO ever has before is somehow more limiting compared to games that don't give any choices.
(This is my open word to Mr Erickson from their forum. God I am so pissed.)
Thats the BIGGEST LOAD of Bullshit I have heard in years!
Human players can't play aliens because they can't identify enough? Well why did people play Bothans or Mon Calamari or Wookiee in SWG, why did people play Ratonga or Sarnath in Everquest 2, why do you many request to play Droid in SWTOR? I mean, heck even in kiddie game WOW people are playing walking COWS!
I mean WTH? This sort of explanation is just a big heap of hrosedung Sorry to be gross... but maybe THEIR imagination is so narrow. And ok, playing a blob or an intelligent ocean is difficult. But damnation, a Sci-Fi setting like STAR WARS has so many aliens which people would want to play, how in the 23 names of the devil can you get a huge, fantastic IP like STAR WARS and then produce such a frigging stream of crap! I am out of my mind in anger! Well, permaban me if you want, but I curse the day they ever allowed you to get your hands on Star Wars, because you turn is upside down! Ever thought that maybe not everyone wants to be the teenage mass market stereotype? You cut the freedom at EVERY possible corner, you set SPACE, the very empitme of freedom, on rails, and now this! Yes away with Wookiees and Lizards because in a Galaxy with millions of intelligent species it is so realistic that people would shudder over a Lizard face or anything not human. Well and thank you for declaring all your potential customers as small minded ignoramas in the sidenote.
I mean LOOK at what sort of characters people made when their imagination is free! Look at Champions Online or City of Heroes! People create ugly devils, robots, bizarre aliens, furries and whatnot! And they identify with it perfectly happy!!!
Dammit... THIS is it? We are getting HUMANS like in STAR TREK of 1960ies because you can write your ROMANCEs for everyone? I DON'T THE HELL BELIEVE IT.
I know, you all have it in your minds, you have your greandeur vision. But I tell you what Mr Smart: maybe some of your customers are not so small minded and so lack of fantasy and dreams as you think. Maybe some can identify more with lizardmen or ratmen or catmen than with game developers!
Yes you will close it and ban me and you know I don't care! I don't care anymore! My hope has died slice by slice with every new limitation, with every new revelation of what we could NOT do. Back then, when you started to talk about story only, I jokingly said, maybe it's because the rest is so abysmally mediocre. And lo and behold, IT IS. Beginnging from the WOW shoulderpads (WHERE IN STAR WARS DID ANYONE EVER EVER EVER WEAR SHOULDERPADS!), over the clone wars childish graphics, to the "iconic" very standard fare classes, the all too well known combat system - everything outside your wonderful story is mediocre and done hundreds of times before. And now THIS. Is ALL sacrificed on your alter of you oh so important STORY?
You are making a BIG mistake, Mr. I tell you. Yes I am just an angry nobody, some nameless forum poster whose saying he won't buy your game you prolly will laugh about. But when a MMO has a $150 MILLION bucks to spent, I can only say: THIS IS IT? You have 150 million dollars and you are not able to make interesting alien races because of some "idea fixe" about some preset story railroad? Well what about OUR dreams? What about OUR stories? Where is the freedom to be some freak, as you call it? Well I be rather a freak and a blue skinned, four arm REPTILE than another dull humans-only club game where every little bit of freedom and extravaganza is sacrficed for your vision of telling some preset story!
I wish you are SO GOING TO SINK with that, so that the error you have done here is recited by the next TEN Generations of game developers as what NOT to do in game development!
I honestly believe that this poster means what he says and that hyper critical players such as this don't even waste their precious time by trying the game out, hell I mean what are they thinking we can't be Mon Calamari (forget the fact that the character was only seen for a total of five minutes in star wars and was never the focus of any lore of their own either).
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Ok obviously you did not read my post or better did not understand it. I never said stories were a bad thing in a game. I said making a MMO conform to a story is a bad thing. Star Wars the universe to many people is bigger than any one or group of stories. To cut choices in a game for the basis of a story is what is wrong. Many games have had epic stories and individual class quests. Individual class quests or VO is not new to SW:TOR. And if the Personal story doesn't have any effect on the game outside of your personal story why would you impact the rest of the game to cater to a story for just you. To me if you want epic story for YOU then play a Single player RPG. I play MMO's for choice and to see entire Game worlds come alive not just a personal story. The only new part is the fact they are willing to leave out choices to help keep THEIR story going. It is not the story you or your char. If it was trully a PERSONAL STORY they wouldn't need to limit your choices so they can control YOUR outcome of YOUR story.
But thanks for not reading my post and just attacking people for as i stated MY OPINION. So please re read my post an point out the part that I hate stories or that I think stories are bad for games I am still missing that part.
Ok obviously you did not read my post or better did not understand it. I never said stories were a bad thing in a game. I said making a MMO conform to a story is a bad thing. Star Wars the universe to many people is bigger than any one or group of stories. To cut choices in a game for the basis of a story is what is wrong. Many games have had epic stories and individual class quests. Individual class quests or VO is not new to SW:TOR. And if the Personal story doesn't have any effect on the game outside of your personal story why would you impact the rest of the game to cater to a story for just you. To me if you want epic story for YOU then play a Single player RPG. I play MMO's for choice and to see entire Game worlds come alive not just a personal story. The only new part is the fact they are willing to leave out choices to help keep THEIR story going. It is not the story you or your char. If it was trully a PERSONAL STORY they wouldn't need to limit your choices so they can control YOUR outcome of YOUR story.
But thanks for not reading my post and just attacking people for as i stated MY OPINION. So please re read my post an point out the part that I hate stories or that I think stories are bad for games I am still missing that part.
You are not making any sense here.
The personal stories reveal details about what is going on in the game and relate to the universe as a whole. By all accounts they'll have epic parts, but not be nearly as epic as the group stuff which is bigger in scope. Both will undoubtedly have parts that connect to bigger things and parts that are rather small in scope (like any Bioware game). They give you choices in both, of course, and those have impacts on that story and can change things down the line. You can do personal story stuff with other players, but there are lots of group things to do with them too. The devs have already said you can skip a lot/most solo-friendly content if you don't want to do it.
Now, what exactly do you want instead of this? What exactly is it you think they should do instead? Some sort of story that has ZERO limitations in choices? Something where you control the outcome? There are zero games like that. Certainly TOR is more like that than any other MMO that has ever been made. Sandboxes don't even really have story, and in such games you actually don't have a lot of creative control over YOUR story and its impact on much of scope because you are constrained a lot by other players -- they certainly don't do a good job of making the worlds seem alive and real as opposed to an artificial construct of a bunch of gamers. Themeparks before TOR/GW2 give you basically zero choices so they aren't even in the running. What TOR does is do something not all that different from real life. Events are thrust upon you; you can't decide to ignore reality or what is going on (well, you can in TOR...just don't play), but what you DO get to do is decide how you'll react. Do you have 100% freedom in how you will react? No, but no game ever made provides that. Again, the fact that you have any choice at all is a big improvement.
Seems like you are asking for something that doesn't exist, and partially misunderstanding how storylines in TOR work and partially complaining that it isn't doing more when it is already doing more than previous MMOs -- yet somehow rating it down for being innovative here (probably because of your misunderstandings, I think).
As for the part where you said you hated stories, you clearly stated it was a step backwards merely because stories in games have existed for a long time.
Lets face it the more we hear about SW:TOR the more the devs seem to reveal that the is a game you play but make little choice in how you play or what direction you go. It all seems like a well lit path you HAVE to take instead of several equally lit paths you can choose. Which is fine, just not what I am looking for. I guess we will all have to wait and see. I was super hyped about this game when I first heard about it. Sadly the more I hear, the less hyped i get. Forced Story and Track Space Combat shows a not just a led by the hand MMO but more of a pulled by nose ring tour through a Star Wars Story MMO.
I don't know how you think the game is "going backwards." I find it hilarious you think being given story decisions limit choice in an MMO. Compare TOR to LoTRO or WoW and you'll see that TOR is adding a great deal of choice and decision making that hasn't existed before. You actually GET STORY CHOICES TO MAKE THAT MATTER now, and before you didn't. This doesn't change what sorts of things you can do in a game that is mostly themepark beyond adding to it. MMOs in fact have been sadly lacking in this regard for their entire lifespan, it is hardly going backwards to fix that issue.
But what if I don't care about story driven "MMO" but want to play a MMO where I can play without a story or even create my own? You are saying that TOR is adding great deal of choice compared to Lotro and WoW, so please be more specific.
So far we know that this game will be just another Bioware story telling (instanced) and you don't even have to find other players to meet harder encounters as you can replace them with bots. So beta testers, can any of you confirm that there will be at least some free play in this so called MMO? All information released so far indicate that TOR will be an instanced story driven online game where you have an option to interact with other players.
This is my personal opinion and yes, I'm quite disappointed by the information released so far. Fanboi squad tells me to shut up and ignore this game but I have a secret for fanbois: the more people demand from devs the better the game gets. Being happy with crap is just setting your standards too low. Maybe TOR will turn out as a total success but so far I have a question - what makes it different from mediocre crap released so far? Based on information shared by Bioware.
If you don't want story, then don't play TOR.
As for more choice than LOTRO and WoW...I have to be specific? Neither game provides dialogue options, neither game lets you choose between killing or not killing an NPC and have that choice reflected in the story. This is BASIC STUFF about TOR....do you really know so little about the game that I have to explain it?
Frankly I don't have a lot of time that I wish to waste on explaining the basics of TOR to you. If you don't understand that that companions are there to make sure you can fulfill a role without kicking out a friend (encounters are balanced for a full group with compainions largely) and that you only can bring along one companion per person, then you just need to sit down and read more about the game -- further, if you need some healing they've said having the whole group picking healing companions is perhaps a bit worse than having just one player be a healer, so companions are hardly overpowering. This stuff is important to understand because what the system does is ENABLE you to play with friends rather then telling them they can't come along because their class/spec is no good.
You can find plenty of people talking about how the game world is open and you see other people playing all the time. There are plenty of devs who have commented on how there is stuff off the beaten path to find and explore. They aren't pretending it is a sandbox though and never have (though they have said it is a good bit more sandboxy than a game like WoW). Is the game going to primarily be about quests/story? Sure, and they've NEVER pretended otherwise. There will be many things that require a group to run. Again, all of this is basic stuff. If you bothered doing even cursory research into the game you'd find all this out. Instead you seem to want to sit back and make up complaints. They devs have also repeatedly talked about how they are building the game to encourage community and people working and interacting together.
Are there instanced/phased stuff? Sure, because if you decide to kill an NPC, then that has to be kept contained to an extent. This isn't really different in scope from what games like WoW or LOTRO do though by all accounts. The big difference is the fact Bioware is leveling such things to enable more player choice.
Anyhow, Timukas, I think I am going to stop responding to your posts until you actually read up on the game some. All this is basic stuff that they've been talking about FOR MONTHS.
Ok obviously you did not read my post or better did not understand it. I never said stories were a bad thing in a game. I said making a MMO conform to a story is a bad thing. Star Wars the universe to many people is bigger than any one or group of stories. To cut choices in a game for the basis of a story is what is wrong. Many games have had epic stories and individual class quests. Individual class quests or VO is not new to SW:TOR. And if the Personal story doesn't have any effect on the game outside of your personal story why would you impact the rest of the game to cater to a story for just you. To me if you want epic story for YOU then play a Single player RPG. I play MMO's for choice and to see entire Game worlds come alive not just a personal story. The only new part is the fact they are willing to leave out choices to help keep THEIR story going. It is not the story you or your char. If it was trully a PERSONAL STORY they wouldn't need to limit your choices so they can control YOUR outcome of YOUR story.
But thanks for not reading my post and just attacking people for as i stated MY OPINION. So please re read my post an point out the part that I hate stories or that I think stories are bad for games I am still missing that part.
I read your posts and it's basically what I feel as well. I welcome the addition of story, but they have done it too far and left too much freedom for the sake of their story, which just isn't what I connect with a MMO either.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Lets be honest the IP alone will not make this game a success otherwise SWG would known as a success and not a failure. The only problem I have with BW's SW MMO is I am fearing too much story. Stories are a great addition to a MMO but should never be the focus. Stories by definition need to have an ending. MMO's by nature are suppose to not have an end. Don't get me wrong I love a good story. That is why all the great story games are Single player RPG's and not MMO's. You are suppose to finish/beat a single player game/story. You are not, by design, suppose to finish/beat a MMO. This my opinion, a game based on a story should be made into a single player RPG. A game based on an idea,Universe, or an entire IP should be made into a MMO with story elements but not driven by a story. When you make a game around a story, choices suffer because what I CHOOSE to do may conflict with the story. So you end up limiting my choices to fit your story. So in the end you have a great Single player story game with little choice. The Problem with that is Story games have been around since before Video Games were invented. MMO's only 12 or so years. Not sure why we want our MMO's to go back in time instead of forward. VO's and Story are great but when you start designing a MMO around those and not a Single Player RPG, is where I see the problems arising. MMO's are by design to have alot of replayability and keep you playing. Stories are put aside when done, to be remembered but not revisted to often.
Lets face it the more we hear about SW:TOR the more the devs seem to reveal that the is a game you play but make little choice in how you play or what direction you go. It all seems like a well lit path you HAVE to take instead of several equally lit paths you can choose. Which is fine, just not what I am looking for. I guess we will all have to wait and see. I was super hyped about this game when I first heard about it. Sadly the more I hear, the less hyped i get. Forced Story and Track Space Combat shows a not just a led by the hand MMO but more of a pulled by nose ring tour through a Star Wars Story MMO.
I have to disagree from your first point even, SWG was not a success because SOE never marketed it to be so. My time playing mmo's began with SWG, after hearing about these "online games" I decided against trying them because I didn't like the aspect of paying monthly for a game that I had already purchased and then SWG came out. While I had no familiarity with games like Ultima and Everquest here was an mmo being designed around an ip I was highly familiar with so my interest was high.
As development went on I would ask around those who were in the know and the general sentiment surrounding SWG was that they were going to go against the grain and NOT make a game they thought would please the masses but hardcore gamers and sandbox mmo players. I have to admit I was not so much into mmo's that I had read many interviews by the devs at SOE but considering how things turned out I doubt any of the folks who told be about the game lied because in essence it turned out to be the exact same way they said it would. As a highly tecnhnical sandbox that required more thought than the average gamer was willing to deal with to play a game.
You could have been right about every other point you made but to go into it saying that simply being Star wars would make a game a success is wrong especially when a company goes out of it's way to not cater to those masses which is exactly what SOE did in launching SWG.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
The personal stories reveal details about what is going on in the game and relate to the universe as a whole.
...
Just want to address this one little snippet...
If the personal stories are only there to act as story telling devices for the game universe... then why are they personal stories?
A personal story is supposed to be about a character adapting and developing due to experiencing hardship. While this is fine and dandy to do in a single player game where you only really have one or a handful of finite characters, this works. When you're slathering it over the masses... not so much, because then the masses go through the cookie cutter story you're forcing them through.
The more I read about how this "story" element is going, the less impressed I am. It sounds to me like if Bioware remade SWG, every character would start out as an orphaned teenager growing up with his or her moisture farming aunt and uncle on Tatooine.
Now, I could be wrong, but I really don't see how Bioware would concievably manage indepth story without their linear story telling ways.
I have read most I think, maybe I'm just too dumb. Anyways it won't be a solution to tell people like me to stay away. I will most probably will stay away from TOR although I was two months ago pretty certain that I'll preorder the game. Just all the news from Bioware made me to hesitate. And what if there are more idiots like me? Bioware has to get back 150 million USD plus some more so I'd like to fork out a couple of thousand but I demand a quality product for my money.
It's the same advice I'd give to someone who doesn't like shooting people regarding an FPS. If you really, really don't think you'll like a particular genre or sub-genre of game, then you shouldn't waste your time and money on it.
Comments
It was Anikans little rhodian buddy, Wald. Says something to the tune of "you did it, Ani!" I think he talks in other places, too. Also, Greedo speaks Huttese without any physical limitations, no reason to think he can't speak Basic to some extent.
I feel bad for Bioware. This game is getting to much critisizim. I almost feel like they will lose a fan base if it doesnt so so hot. But I must admit, I have high expectations as well
And they did very well on initial box sales, which was a direct reflection of the IP strength alone and despite all the negative press coming from beta players.
SW:TOR will be the same although I'd be willing to bet their retention numbers will be significantly better. :P
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Yeah You're probably right, my bad.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Another Star Wars MMO once began with the legendary words: "This is the greatest story ever told: Yours!" And while it had it's flaws and while I am no sandbox purist, I find this entire concept of TOR is way too narrow and limited. And that is where it all falls together.
I support Biowares idea to bring more story to MMOs. I support Bioware's idea to bring a class story that is unique to every class. BUT: Not every freedom can and must be sacrificed for the sake of story. Story need freedom and choice, it needs identity, and not everyone's desired identity is that of a human! We have many different and diverse people with many different dreams and fanasies. Not all can be 100% added to a game. But I just find limiting it to humans is not right. You can tell me what you want. And if you are lucky and your dream is to be human in Star Wars, thats fine. But maybe you consider not all share the same dreams.
I would rather have a bit less story and a bit more freedom, than this railroad gaming. I think it is not so difficult to just make a simple variable "alien" to quit the romance plot. If you play male on a male char as Smuggler I guess they also have a gender variable to check the reaction. So how can it be so difficult just to add a second variable, alien, to also rule out the romance plot. With that many aliens could be played, thinking that prolly Bothans, Rodians, Mon Cal or Nautolans don't have such a different life than humans. (I guess the life of a Miraluka is WAY more different from ours, than say, that of a Rodian or Bothan.)
In the end WE are just as much aliens than any other race. It's just a point of view, and the imagination of people is MUCH broader than Mr. Erickson thinks.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Every MMO does well wit box sales, but time will tell how well it will do after the Initial box sales
could go up or down heh...no one can tell atm
Anyway I don’t want the game to do bad...would be nice to see a successful game
I am just say the game is going in a bad direction ((But that is just my personal opinion))
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
I can't say I feel bad for them, even if I agree with your message. They took on the Star Wars license, with that one should expect such criticism. The same thing happened with SWG as well as STO and LOTRO.
With popular IP's like this, you have to expect a segment of those fanbases to be rabid haters of anything that doesn't fit into their interpretation of the lore in question. They knew this going in I'm sure.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I know but he was claiming that the game will do well on the IP alone which has been proven wrong several times in the last few years.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
Lets be honest the IP alone will not make this game a success otherwise SWG would known as a success and not a failure. The only problem I have with BW's SW MMO is I am fearing too much story. Stories are a great addition to a MMO but should never be the focus. Stories by definition need to have an ending. MMO's by nature are suppose to not have an end. Don't get me wrong I love a good story. That is why all the great story games are Single player RPG's and not MMO's. You are suppose to finish/beat a single player game/story. You are not, by design, suppose to finish/beat a MMO. This my opinion, a game based on a story should be made into a single player RPG. A game based on an idea,Universe, or an entire IP should be made into a MMO with story elements but not driven by a story. When you make a game around a story, choices suffer because what I CHOOSE to do may conflict with the story. So you end up limiting my choices to fit your story. So in the end you have a great Single player story game with little choice. The Problem with that is Story games have been around since before Video Games were invented. MMO's only 12 or so years. Not sure why we want our MMO's to go back in time instead of forward. VO's and Story are great but when you start designing a MMO around those and not a Single Player RPG, is where I see the problems arising. MMO's are by design to have alot of replayability and keep you playing. Stories are put aside when done, to be remembered but not revisted to often.
Lets face it the more we hear about SW:TOR the more the devs seem to reveal that the is a game you play but make little choice in how you play or what direction you go. It all seems like a well lit path you HAVE to take instead of several equally lit paths you can choose. Which is fine, just not what I am looking for. I guess we will all have to wait and see. I was super hyped about this game when I first heard about it. Sadly the more I hear, the less hyped i get. Forced Story and Track Space Combat shows a not just a led by the hand MMO but more of a pulled by nose ring tour through a Star Wars Story MMO.
In the end the vast majority of aliens would be played just like humans (minus a romance plot of you toss in that variable, which would hardly be fair to such players or realistic). Restrictions mean that aliens can actually seem like aliens, rather than humans in funny suits which is how races, no matter how alien, are played on MMOs most of the time. I think it makes perfect sense to restrict races to pretty much humans and near-humans, so long as they capitalize on that decision and make the alien races and cultures really seem unique and alive.
Exactly, only time will tell.
I don't want the game to do poorly either. For me at least, the more that's released about the game the less I find myself interested as many of the directions they are taking do not appeal to me.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
You speak like all the species have been announced. You don't know what other species will be available as they haven't announced them all. Again, we don't know to what point race plays a portion in story. People seem to think that these species are just painted on humans, and if they were, you'd be okay with it as long as you can play pretend. Thats not how these things work, when you're dealing with storylines that take things like, race, sex, and choice into consideration, we don't know how something like the choices of a particular race will mesh.
Its not to say that it can't be done, before launch, or later, but its just another brush with expectation that people have a hard time curbing.
Dear god...I need to proofread before I hit the send button.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
I don't know how you think the game is "going backwards." I find it hilarious you think being given story decisions limit choice in an MMO. Compare TOR to LoTRO or WoW and you'll see that TOR is adding a great deal of choice and decision making that hasn't existed before. You actually GET STORY CHOICES TO MAKE THAT MATTER now, and before you didn't. This doesn't change what sorts of things you can do in a game that is mostly themepark beyond adding to it. MMOs in fact have been sadly lacking in this regard for their entire lifespan, it is hardly going backwards to fix that issue.
As for stories ending, sure, but there are many, many stories to start and just because a story ends EVENTUALLY doesn't mean that it is going to end anytime soon. Eventually the TOR servers will shut down and then the story will certainly end with the last expansion/content addition. That is hardly a limiting factor.
Frankly, your post seems so grossly mis/uninformed that I am not sure what to say. Unique stories for each class somehow mean the game isn't replayable? Multiple decisions for single classes with consequences means they aren't replayable? Other MMOs are VERY replayable? Other MMOs have SOME replayability, but certainly not a lot. TOR is definitely going to have a lot more than anything else on the market.
What exactly is it your want from a Star Wars game? SWG2 where you go wash dishes in a Cantina or something? If you want drudgery in a "sci-fi" setting become a janitor in an R&D facility. I mean, I guess I can sorta...kinda see why someone might want to play Star Wars and avoid epic and awesome plots/stories/events as much as possible, but I find it rather odd. If that's what you really want though, then I have to agree that TOR isn't going to be offering that, nor has it EVER pretended it would. (Though you don't have to do the personal or group story if you don't want to...though I don't see why anyone would completely ignore both).
That said, it still surprises me how many people think that TOR offering far, far more story choices than any MMO ever has before is somehow more limiting compared to games that don't give any choices.
I honestly believe that this poster means what he says and that hyper critical players such as this don't even waste their precious time by trying the game out, hell I mean what are they thinking we can't be Mon Calamari (forget the fact that the character was only seen for a total of five minutes in star wars and was never the focus of any lore of their own either).
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Ok obviously you did not read my post or better did not understand it. I never said stories were a bad thing in a game. I said making a MMO conform to a story is a bad thing. Star Wars the universe to many people is bigger than any one or group of stories. To cut choices in a game for the basis of a story is what is wrong. Many games have had epic stories and individual class quests. Individual class quests or VO is not new to SW:TOR. And if the Personal story doesn't have any effect on the game outside of your personal story why would you impact the rest of the game to cater to a story for just you. To me if you want epic story for YOU then play a Single player RPG. I play MMO's for choice and to see entire Game worlds come alive not just a personal story. The only new part is the fact they are willing to leave out choices to help keep THEIR story going. It is not the story you or your char. If it was trully a PERSONAL STORY they wouldn't need to limit your choices so they can control YOUR outcome of YOUR story.
But thanks for not reading my post and just attacking people for as i stated MY OPINION. So please re read my post an point out the part that I hate stories or that I think stories are bad for games I am still missing that part.
You are not making any sense here.
The personal stories reveal details about what is going on in the game and relate to the universe as a whole. By all accounts they'll have epic parts, but not be nearly as epic as the group stuff which is bigger in scope. Both will undoubtedly have parts that connect to bigger things and parts that are rather small in scope (like any Bioware game). They give you choices in both, of course, and those have impacts on that story and can change things down the line. You can do personal story stuff with other players, but there are lots of group things to do with them too. The devs have already said you can skip a lot/most solo-friendly content if you don't want to do it.
Now, what exactly do you want instead of this? What exactly is it you think they should do instead? Some sort of story that has ZERO limitations in choices? Something where you control the outcome? There are zero games like that. Certainly TOR is more like that than any other MMO that has ever been made. Sandboxes don't even really have story, and in such games you actually don't have a lot of creative control over YOUR story and its impact on much of scope because you are constrained a lot by other players -- they certainly don't do a good job of making the worlds seem alive and real as opposed to an artificial construct of a bunch of gamers. Themeparks before TOR/GW2 give you basically zero choices so they aren't even in the running. What TOR does is do something not all that different from real life. Events are thrust upon you; you can't decide to ignore reality or what is going on (well, you can in TOR...just don't play), but what you DO get to do is decide how you'll react. Do you have 100% freedom in how you will react? No, but no game ever made provides that. Again, the fact that you have any choice at all is a big improvement.
Seems like you are asking for something that doesn't exist, and partially misunderstanding how storylines in TOR work and partially complaining that it isn't doing more when it is already doing more than previous MMOs -- yet somehow rating it down for being innovative here (probably because of your misunderstandings, I think).
As for the part where you said you hated stories, you clearly stated it was a step backwards merely because stories in games have existed for a long time.
If you don't want story, then don't play TOR.
As for more choice than LOTRO and WoW...I have to be specific? Neither game provides dialogue options, neither game lets you choose between killing or not killing an NPC and have that choice reflected in the story. This is BASIC STUFF about TOR....do you really know so little about the game that I have to explain it?
Frankly I don't have a lot of time that I wish to waste on explaining the basics of TOR to you. If you don't understand that that companions are there to make sure you can fulfill a role without kicking out a friend (encounters are balanced for a full group with compainions largely) and that you only can bring along one companion per person, then you just need to sit down and read more about the game -- further, if you need some healing they've said having the whole group picking healing companions is perhaps a bit worse than having just one player be a healer, so companions are hardly overpowering. This stuff is important to understand because what the system does is ENABLE you to play with friends rather then telling them they can't come along because their class/spec is no good.
You can find plenty of people talking about how the game world is open and you see other people playing all the time. There are plenty of devs who have commented on how there is stuff off the beaten path to find and explore. They aren't pretending it is a sandbox though and never have (though they have said it is a good bit more sandboxy than a game like WoW). Is the game going to primarily be about quests/story? Sure, and they've NEVER pretended otherwise. There will be many things that require a group to run. Again, all of this is basic stuff. If you bothered doing even cursory research into the game you'd find all this out. Instead you seem to want to sit back and make up complaints. They devs have also repeatedly talked about how they are building the game to encourage community and people working and interacting together.
Are there instanced/phased stuff? Sure, because if you decide to kill an NPC, then that has to be kept contained to an extent. This isn't really different in scope from what games like WoW or LOTRO do though by all accounts. The big difference is the fact Bioware is leveling such things to enable more player choice.
Anyhow, Timukas, I think I am going to stop responding to your posts until you actually read up on the game some. All this is basic stuff that they've been talking about FOR MONTHS.
I read your posts and it's basically what I feel as well. I welcome the addition of story, but they have done it too far and left too much freedom for the sake of their story, which just isn't what I connect with a MMO either.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I have to disagree from your first point even, SWG was not a success because SOE never marketed it to be so. My time playing mmo's began with SWG, after hearing about these "online games" I decided against trying them because I didn't like the aspect of paying monthly for a game that I had already purchased and then SWG came out. While I had no familiarity with games like Ultima and Everquest here was an mmo being designed around an ip I was highly familiar with so my interest was high.
As development went on I would ask around those who were in the know and the general sentiment surrounding SWG was that they were going to go against the grain and NOT make a game they thought would please the masses but hardcore gamers and sandbox mmo players. I have to admit I was not so much into mmo's that I had read many interviews by the devs at SOE but considering how things turned out I doubt any of the folks who told be about the game lied because in essence it turned out to be the exact same way they said it would. As a highly tecnhnical sandbox that required more thought than the average gamer was willing to deal with to play a game.
You could have been right about every other point you made but to go into it saying that simply being Star wars would make a game a success is wrong especially when a company goes out of it's way to not cater to those masses which is exactly what SOE did in launching SWG.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Just want to address this one little snippet...
If the personal stories are only there to act as story telling devices for the game universe... then why are they personal stories?
A personal story is supposed to be about a character adapting and developing due to experiencing hardship. While this is fine and dandy to do in a single player game where you only really have one or a handful of finite characters, this works. When you're slathering it over the masses... not so much, because then the masses go through the cookie cutter story you're forcing them through.
The more I read about how this "story" element is going, the less impressed I am. It sounds to me like if Bioware remade SWG, every character would start out as an orphaned teenager growing up with his or her moisture farming aunt and uncle on Tatooine.
Now, I could be wrong, but I really don't see how Bioware would concievably manage indepth story without their linear story telling ways.
Developers have watch prject after project fail trying to be better than Wow.
They now know the only way to beat the king of MMo's is to reinvent the Genre,This is what Bioware are trying to do.
And i feel they will fail mid term yr after release in retention.
What developers cant seem to figure is that the genre had it right 10 yrs ago.
It's the same advice I'd give to someone who doesn't like shooting people regarding an FPS. If you really, really don't think you'll like a particular genre or sub-genre of game, then you shouldn't waste your time and money on it.