This game looks more and more like it's just going to be KOTOR3 with an online lobby.
Statements like that make it sound like you don't know what you are talking about. It has an open galaxy.
"open world" is a loosely used term these days. From the heavy emphasis on story and questing, as well as things like a supposid romance option and companion stories... and considering Bioware's latest games, I'm hard pressed to believe that much of the 'story' is going to take place in non-instanced areas. So while yes, there may be an "open world" to roam around in, but the meat and bones of the game looks like it will be packed away into neat little instances disconnected from the gameworld. Hence the use of the term lobby.
Don't get me started on the whole space flight thing either... lol.
Trust me there is no lobby. While you are out doing your quest , everyone else will be running around doing their own. The devs have said there are No lobbies, and when you travel from city to city it is ALL open world... YOu have to read some reviews of people that played it or pay more attention.
I can understand people wanting to play as whatever species, but the devs are giving us quite a few species. More so then most other games. Just because you can't be a wookie or a mon calamari does not mean it isn't in the game.
In AION you can only be human like characters and that works out fine. Nobody is asking why they can't be a Mau or a Baluar or even a kraal. Even though they are in the atreia world.
It doesn't sound too unreasonable since they have devoted this game heavily to good story that there may be limits to what they can do. See in SWG they didn't have a story line like they do here, where every character will be immersed in their own story. It was the same old generic story for everyone, and most people didn't bother reading it because it was boring to read. You just wanted to hurry up and get the grind over with so you could move on to the bigger and better things.
This game is a lot different. This game wont feel like a grind. You will not feel like you have to just rush and rush to get to end game because the game itself is so boring.. You will enjoy your leveling process and each step of the way you will be begging for more and anticipating the next scene.
I wish people would understand that.
Well see, the main complaint is that the more iconic alien races, the ones that are actually alien, aren't playable. If the majority of races you can pick from look and act the same for the most part, then what point is there in actually having so many different races when they're all nearly identical?
As per the whole story thing... honestly?
"It was the same old generic storyline for everyone"
Ironically the same applies for pretty much every bioware game lately:
XX has some unfound power, that they don't know about, until YY happens. Then the great evil ZZ comes about, that only XX can defeat with their uniqueness they learned about from YY.
This game looks more and more like it's just going to be KOTOR3 with an online lobby.
Statements like that make it sound like you don't know what you are talking about. It has an open galaxy.
"open world" is a loosely used term these days. From the heavy emphasis on story and questing, as well as things like a supposid romance option and companion stories... and considering Bioware's latest games, I'm hard pressed to believe that much of the 'story' is going to take place in non-instanced areas. So while yes, there may be an "open world" to roam around in, but the meat and bones of the game looks like it will be packed away into neat little instances disconnected from the gameworld. Hence the use of the term lobby.
Don't get me started on the whole space flight thing either... lol.
Trust me there is no lobby. While you are out doing your quest , everyone else will be running around doing their own. The devs have said there are No lobbies, and when you travel from city to city it is ALL open world... YOu have to read some reviews of people that played it or pay more attention.
I have read the reviews.
What the devs have said is all flowers and sunshine.
The reality of it may be what they promise, then again, it can be rather skewed from what they claim. The same has happened for numerous MMOs in the past, so I reserve any concrete judgement until the game is actually released.
I'm simply hard pressed to believe that Bioware would actually be able to pull off a heavily story driven MMO without heavy use of instancing, simply by their track record of how they do things.
I can understand people wanting to play as whatever species, but the devs are giving us quite a few species. More so then most other games. Just because you can't be a wookie or a mon calamari does not mean it isn't in the game.
In AION you can only be human like characters and that works out fine. Nobody is asking why they can't be a Mau or a Baluar or even a kraal. Even though they are in the atreia world.
It doesn't sound too unreasonable since they have devoted this game heavily to good story that there may be limits to what they can do. See in SWG they didn't have a story line like they do here, where every character will be immersed in their own story. It was the same old generic story for everyone, and most people didn't bother reading it because it was boring to read. You just wanted to hurry up and get the grind over with so you could move on to the bigger and better things.
This game is a lot different. This game wont feel like a grind. You will not feel like you have to just rush and rush to get to end game because the game itself is so boring.. You will enjoy your leveling process and each step of the way you will be begging for more and anticipating the next scene.
I wish people would understand that.
Well see, the main complaint is that the more iconic alien races, the ones that are actually alien, aren't playable. If the majority of races you can pick from look and act the same for the most part, then what point is there in actually having so many different races when they're all nearly identical?
As per the whole story thing... honestly?
"It was the same old generic storyline for everyone"
Ironically the same applies for pretty much every bioware game lately:
XX has some unfound power, that they don't know about, until YY happens. Then the great evil ZZ comes about, that only XX can defeat with their uniqueness they learned about from YY.
I agree. More options would be great if they could somehow fit it into the storyline. Is it gonna keep me from playing? No, it wont.
They would have to create a seperate story for the uniqe species, though. That is why it's not done. If they look fuckable then they can add them, basically. You wouldn't fuck a wookie would you? No...
I understand the situation here. They have so much in this game already and the stories were a major undertaking, that if they had to add even more stories then we may never see a realease date. I am buying this game because of the story mainly, and the IP, and also hoping that there is alot of good pvp in this game. SO I am willing to allow for some sacrafices for the greater good of the quality of the game.
Maybe they will add a few more exotic species, but you need to understand they would have to have a whole new story for those exotic species.
I understand their logic and agree with it. But I think they're being overly cautious.
Sure. Being a huge amorphous blob would be pretty lame, a distraction, and an annoyance to other players and make the story seem silly. But I don't think that applies so much to something somewhat humanoid. For example, I think people could feel the connection with a Rodian character, and the story would work fine. My main on SWG was a Rodian, and while story elements weren't involved, I felt pretty comfortable in that skin.
Have to wait and see, but much like the OP, I'm a bit dissapointed.
This game has become more and more unappealing with every bit of news I have heard.
I really wanted this game to work out, I love Star Wars.
Problem is that this isn't George Lucas Star Wars, this is Old Republic. If you played Kotor you probaply notice that only non-human organic companion was Zaalbar wookie and in game point he was bit annoying to equip and listen in long term. And I'm glad it's not George Lucas Star Wars since the new movies was crap and SWG was total crap.
That is still no an excuse to laziness ...it is still SW in the end.
I have ready many none Lucas SW EU novels and they were more Star Warsy than this.
This is completely ridiculous. It's lazy because it's not everything you wanted? How would you know how Star Warzy it is?
The decision is based on voice overs, they want the playable characters to have VO. Love them or hate them, VO is the root cause to no playable species that can't speak Basic. Which has nothing to do with Laziness. Who wants to hear hisses and grunts all day long?
Edit- Don't feel like getting a ban or warning today.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This game looks more and more like it's just going to be KOTOR3 with an online lobby.
Statements like that make it sound like you don't know what you are talking about. It has an open galaxy.
"open world" is a loosely used term these days. From the heavy emphasis on story and questing, as well as things like a supposid romance option and companion stories... and considering Bioware's latest games, I'm hard pressed to believe that much of the 'story' is going to take place in non-instanced areas. So while yes, there may be an "open world" to roam around in, but the meat and bones of the game looks like it will be packed away into neat little instances disconnected from the gameworld. Hence the use of the term lobby.
Don't get me started on the whole space flight thing either... lol.
Trust me there is no lobby. While you are out doing your quest , everyone else will be running around doing their own. The devs have said there are No lobbies, and when you travel from city to city it is ALL open world... YOu have to read some reviews of people that played it or pay more attention.
I have read the reviews.
What the devs have said is all flowers and sunshine.
The reality of it may be what they promise, then again, it can be rather skewed from what they claim. The same has happened for numerous MMOs in the past, so I reserve any concrete judgement until the game is actually released.
I'm simply hard pressed to believe that Bioware would actually be able to pull off a heavily story driven MMO without heavy use of instancing, simply by their track record of how they do things.
From what we know so far from reviews, and experiences of players who have played the game demo or what not, we know that the game does not seem heavily instanced. It is open world, and then there are certain areas (like rooms in a building, or in a palace) where you might have a story scene. They have these see through invisible walls you walk through, and then your story initializes. Without a loading screen , mind you. People have said that they didn't feel like it was an instance, it felt just as open world as the rest of the game, you walk in get yor story scene and walk out. This is how they seem to have managed the main story line without making you feel like you are cut off from the open world. A bit hard to explain, but most people seem to have liked it.
I am just going off of reviews, demos, what the dev's have saind, and other personal experience... We know most about the starter zones, we don't know much about what happens after that, but I imagine it is the same through out the game. Flashpoints may be alot different. For the most part the game appears to be the majoriity open world.
(This is my open word to Mr Erickson from their forum. God I am so pissed.)
Thats the BIGGEST LOAD of Bullshit I have heard in years!
Human players can't play aliens because they can't identify enough? Well why did people play Bothans or Mon Calamari or Wookiee in SWG, why did people play Ratonga or Sarnath in Everquest 2, why do you many request to play Droid in SWTOR? I mean, heck even in kiddie game WOW people are playing walking COWS!
I mean WTH? This sort of explanation is just a big heap of hrosedung Sorry to be gross... but maybe THEIR imagination is so narrow. And ok, playing a blob or an intelligent ocean is difficult. But damnation, a Sci-Fi setting like STAR WARS has so many aliens which people would want to play, how in the 23 names of the devil can you get a huge, fantastic IP like STAR WARS and then produce such a frigging stream of crap! I am out of my mind in anger! Well, permaban me if you want, but I curse the day they ever allowed you to get your hands on Star Wars, because you turn is upside down! Ever thought that maybe not everyone wants to be the teenage mass market stereotype? You cut the freedom at EVERY possible corner, you set SPACE, the very empitme of freedom, on rails, and now this! Yes away with Wookiees and Lizards because in a Galaxy with millions of intelligent species it is so realistic that people would shudder over a Lizard face or anything not human. Well and thank you for declaring all your potential customers as small minded ignoramas in the sidenote.
I mean LOOK at what sort of characters people made when their imagination is free! Look at Champions Online or City of Heroes! People create ugly devils, robots, bizarre aliens, furries and whatnot! And they identify with it perfectly happy!!!
Dammit... THIS is it? We are getting HUMANS like in STAR TREK of 1960ies because you can write your ROMANCEs for everyone? I DON'T THE HELL BELIEVE IT.
I know, you all have it in your minds, you have your greandeur vision. But I tell you what Mr Smart: maybe some of your customers are not so small minded and so lack of fantasy and dreams as you think. Maybe some can identify more with lizardmen or ratmen or catmen than with game developers!
Yes you will close it and ban me and you know I don't care! I don't care anymore! My hope has died slice by slice with every new limitation, with every new revelation of what we could NOT do. Back then, when you started to talk about story only, I jokingly said, maybe it's because the rest is so abysmally mediocre. And lo and behold, IT IS. Beginnging from the WOW shoulderpads (WHERE IN STAR WARS DID ANYONE EVER EVER EVER WEAR SHOULDERPADS!), over the clone wars childish graphics, to the "iconic" very standard fare classes, the all too well known combat system - everything outside your wonderful story is mediocre and done hundreds of times before. And now THIS. Is ALL sacrificed on your alter of you oh so important STORY?
You are making a BIG mistake, Mr. I tell you. Yes I am just an angry nobody, some nameless forum poster whose saying he won't buy your game you prolly will laugh about. But when a MMO has a $150 MILLION bucks to spent, I can only say: THIS IS IT? You have 150 million dollars and you are not able to make interesting alien races because of some "idea fixe" about some preset story railroad? Well what about OUR dreams? What about OUR stories? Where is the freedom to be some freak, as you call it? Well I be rather a freak and a blue skinned, four arm REPTILE than another dull humans-only club game where every little bit of freedom and extravaganza is sacrficed for your vision of telling some preset story!
I wish you are SO GOING TO SINK with that, so that the error you have done here is recited by the next TEN Generations of game developers as what NOT to do in game development!
Take a chill pill, open the window to get some fresh air in your room and read again what mr Erickson wrote. You and other haters here have serious comprehension problems. The man elaborated quite extensively about their decision to allow only humanoid races. It's their rightful choice and it may or may not have an impact on TOR's welfare. You don't agree with this decision? Fair enough, you can try to elaborate on why you think it won't work. Instead you behave like a 5 year old who had his candy taken away.
What's your malfunction? Because you clearly have serious issues. Dozens of long hate posts here and on TOR's website spitting out nothing but venom. How can anyome invest so much time on a game he clearly don't like and won't buy is something beyond my grasp. Are you on some sort of a crusade or what? Is someone pointing a gun on your head forcing you to buy TOR? By the time it goes live there will be a number of good MMO's to choose from. Just let it go already.
My POV about Bioware's race choice: well, i don't care much since i always play humanoids, they occupy the 90% of race choices in MMO's today. They are iconic enough and will help the players immersion in TOR's world. However, i do believe that Bioware could have added a couple more like Rodians, Sullustans and Mon Calamaris. I think people will be satisfied enough. Well, except some palaeolithic SWG whiners but TOR will better off without them anyways.
I understand their logic and agree with it. But I think they're being overly cautious.
Sure. Being a huge amorphous blob would be pretty lame, a distraction, and an annoyance to other players and make the story seem silly. But I don't think that applies so much to something somewhat humanoid. For example, I think people could feel the connection with a Rodian character, and the story would work fine. My main on SWG was a Rodian, and while story elements weren't involved, I felt pretty comfortable in that skin.
Have to wait and see, but much like the OP, I'm a bit dissapointed.
I think it has more to do with story delivery than looks. Such as voice-over. With aliens like Rodians, Wookies, etc...
They're only capable of their own language. They probably feel players won't have as much of a connection because of all the hisses and grunts. Which I'd agree with, remember how long it took a rodian or wookie to say something in KOTOR? Honestly, who wants to sit around listening to that all day long?
If this were a different game, or didn't contain playable VO, things would most likely be different. I'm sure we'll see trando's, rodians and wookies as NPCs, but that's about it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This game looks more and more like it's just going to be KOTOR3 with an online lobby.
Statements like that make it sound like you don't know what you are talking about. It has an open galaxy.
"open world" is a loosely used term these days. From the heavy emphasis on story and questing, as well as things like a supposid romance option and companion stories... and considering Bioware's latest games, I'm hard pressed to believe that much of the 'story' is going to take place in non-instanced areas. So while yes, there may be an "open world" to roam around in, but the meat and bones of the game looks like it will be packed away into neat little instances disconnected from the gameworld. Hence the use of the term lobby.
Don't get me started on the whole space flight thing either... lol.
Trust me there is no lobby. While you are out doing your quest , everyone else will be running around doing their own. The devs have said there are No lobbies, and when you travel from city to city it is ALL open world... YOu have to read some reviews of people that played it or pay more attention.
I have read the reviews.
What the devs have said is all flowers and sunshine.
The reality of it may be what they promise, then again, it can be rather skewed from what they claim. The same has happened for numerous MMOs in the past, so I reserve any concrete judgement until the game is actually released.
I'm simply hard pressed to believe that Bioware would actually be able to pull off a heavily story driven MMO without heavy use of instancing, simply by their track record of how they do things.
From what we know so far from reviews, and experiences of players who have played the game demo or what not, we know that the game does not seem heavily instanced. It is open world, and then there are certain areas (like rooms in a building, or in a palace) where you might have a story scene. They have these see through invisible walls you walk through, and then your story initializes. Without a loading screen , mind you. People have said that they didn't feel like it was an instance, it felt just as open world as the rest of the game, you walk in get yor story scene and walk out. This is how they seem to have managed the main story line without making you feel like you are cut off from the open world. A bit hard to explain, but most people seem to have liked it.
I am just going off of reviews, demos, what the dev's have saind, and other personal experience... We know most about the starter zones, we don't know much about what happens after that, but I imagine it is the same through out the game. Flashpoints may be alot different. For the most part the game appears to be the majoriity open world.
Indeed. I'm not sure what to say to bringing up this "it isn't an open world" nonesense. People have been reporting that it IS open for something like 4-6 months now, ever since Bioware has allowed outsiders to play the game much. I mean sure, I could go get a link to a dozen such play examples, but that's like asking me to confirm that the game has personal space ships or that you can have a companion (or guilds, or two factions). It's such basic knowledge that I'd think anyone paying attention would already know it -- especially since this comes up again and again and everytime it is disproved. As such, it seems more like something the people making this silly complaint should look up.
If people aren't going to pay attention to news on the game and aren't going to pay attention to discussions in this forum (or others on TOR!), then why bother make uninformed complaints? I certainly see no reason why I have to go do the extremely basic research to disprove them. The people complaining obviously don't really care enough to learn much about the game, so it is unlikely facts will disuade them. If they feel otherwise, they can go almost randomly to a TOR fansite or search the web for gameplay commentary and easily find the information they need (or look at news articles for TOR on this site).
Seems to me most of these complains are from people upset that the game isn't SWG2, even though SWG WAS a major failure of a game even before NGE (it was bleeding 10k customers a month before NGE). Well, the game has never pretended to be a pure sandbox and the devs have never said they want it to be one. That was never a possibility on the table. They have said it will have some sandbox elements, and it is certainly more sandboxy than an MMO like WoW. They've also said that more importantly they intend to make the game structured so that it fosters community and interaction (which is something a LOT of MMOs don't do). Again, this is some pretty basic stuff that has been around for 6 months or so.
Anyhow, I'm tired of constantly running into people who are paying zero attention to the game who come on here and make up false "facts" about what the game has or doesn't have. Such people don't get convinced by evidence. Provide examples of people having played the game that counter these "facts" and they'll just dismiss them as being Bioware stooges, fanboys, or make up some other excuse or loophole for why such information "doesn't count." (And if you aren't one of these many people, then you can get the facts yourself in less than 10 minutes of work. I see no reason to do that little bit of work for you anymore than I see why I should tie your shoelaces).
I understand their logic and agree with it. But I think they're being overly cautious.
Sure. Being a huge amorphous blob would be pretty lame, a distraction, and an annoyance to other players and make the story seem silly. But I don't think that applies so much to something somewhat humanoid. For example, I think people could feel the connection with a Rodian character, and the story would work fine. My main on SWG was a Rodian, and while story elements weren't involved, I felt pretty comfortable in that skin.
Have to wait and see, but much like the OP, I'm a bit dissapointed.
I think it has more to do with story delivery than looks. Such as voice-over. With aliens like Rodians, Wookies, etc...
They're only capable of their own language. They probably feel players won't have as much of a connection because of all the hisses and grunts. Which I'd agree with, remember how long it took a rodian or wookie to say something in KOTOR? Honestly, who wants to sit around listening to that all day long?
If this were a different game, or didn't contain playable VO, things would most likely be different. I'm sure we'll see trando's, rodians and wookies as NPCs, but that's about it.
Personally I don't like the whole player character voice over thing. Ruins imagination and personalization of one's own character when their voice is the same one voice that everyone of the same gender/race combination has.
But hey, that's me, I'm a roleplayer. I like to use my imagination flesh out my character's personas in my head to determine how they think, act, and other things like their voice if they were to talk. To be given a single generic voice that's unchanging kind of works towards killing personalization of one's own character.
Bioware's decision of course... like the race choices...
Doesn't mean I or others have to agree with it though.
I understand their logic and agree with it. But I think they're being overly cautious.
Sure. Being a huge amorphous blob would be pretty lame, a distraction, and an annoyance to other players and make the story seem silly. But I don't think that applies so much to something somewhat humanoid. For example, I think people could feel the connection with a Rodian character, and the story would work fine. My main on SWG was a Rodian, and while story elements weren't involved, I felt pretty comfortable in that skin.
Have to wait and see, but much like the OP, I'm a bit dissapointed.
I think it has more to do with story delivery than looks. Such as voice-over. With aliens like Rodians, Wookies, etc...
They're only capable of their own language. They probably feel players won't have as much of a connection because of all the hisses and grunts. Which I'd agree with, remember how long it took a rodian or wookie to say something in KOTOR? Honestly, who wants to sit around listening to that all day long?
If this were a different game, or didn't contain playable VO, things would most likely be different. I'm sure we'll see trando's, rodians and wookies as NPCs, but that's about it.
Personally I don't like the whole player character voice over thing. Ruins imagination and personalization of one's own character when their voice is the same one voice that everyone of the same gender/race combination has.
But hey, that's me, I'm a roleplayer. I like to use my imagination flesh out my character's personas in my head to determine how they think, act, and other things like their voice if they were to talk. To be given a single generic voice that's unchanging kind of works towards killing personalization of one's own character.
Bioware's decision of course... like the race choices...
Doesn't mean I or others have to agree with it though.
Player voices are because there are group conversations -- well, they haven't said that, but I'm pretty darn sure that's the reason as it explains the difference between this and their single player games. Hopefully we'll have a good selection of possible player voices (I'd think they would do this just so you aren't likely to have the same voice if two Jedi Knights are in your party).
Player voices are because there are group conversations -- well, they haven't said that, but I'm pretty darn sure that's the reason as it explains the difference between this and their single player games. Hopefully we'll have a good selection of possible player voices (I'd think they would do this just so you aren't likely to have the same voice if two Jedi Knights are in your party).
You need to read up more. There is one VO per race per class per sex.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I understand their logic and agree with it. But I think they're being overly cautious.
Sure. Being a huge amorphous blob would be pretty lame, a distraction, and an annoyance to other players and make the story seem silly. But I don't think that applies so much to something somewhat humanoid. For example, I think people could feel the connection with a Rodian character, and the story would work fine. My main on SWG was a Rodian, and while story elements weren't involved, I felt pretty comfortable in that skin.
Have to wait and see, but much like the OP, I'm a bit dissapointed.
I think it has more to do with story delivery than looks. Such as voice-over. With aliens like Rodians, Wookies, etc...
They're only capable of their own language. They probably feel players won't have as much of a connection because of all the hisses and grunts. Which I'd agree with, remember how long it took a rodian or wookie to say something in KOTOR? Honestly, who wants to sit around listening to that all day long?
If this were a different game, or didn't contain playable VO, things would most likely be different. I'm sure we'll see trando's, rodians and wookies as NPCs, but that's about it.
Rodians could speak common, which they did in the Phantom Menace.
Some Wookies could also speak common in the Zahn book trilogy, considered canon by Lucas.
Even if not, I don't see any terribly good in-game excuse for limiting such things.
The reality of VO expense though is another matter. I was thinking that your character responses were just text like most rpg's(you'd never hear your char's voice), but now I recall how ME's dialogue went, and I can see the issue, now.
So, I think the ingame excuse is still pretty weak. But the external reasons are pretty significant. It would add tons to the budget...
(This is my open word to Mr Erickson from their forum. God I am so pissed.)
Thats the BIGGEST LOAD of Bullshit I have heard in years!
Human players can't play aliens because they can't identify enough? Well why did people play Bothans or Mon Calamari or Wookiee in SWG, why did people play Ratonga or Sarnath in Everquest 2, why do you many request to play Droid in SWTOR? I mean, heck even in kiddie game WOW people are playing walking COWS!
I mean WTH? This sort of explanation is just a big heap of hrosedung Sorry to be gross... but maybe THEIR imagination is so narrow. And ok, playing a blob or an intelligent ocean is difficult. But damnation, a Sci-Fi setting like STAR WARS has so many aliens which people would want to play, how in the 23 names of the devil can you get a huge, fantastic IP like STAR WARS and then produce such a frigging stream of crap! I am out of my mind in anger! Well, permaban me if you want, but I curse the day they ever allowed you to get your hands on Star Wars, because you turn is upside down! Ever thought that maybe not everyone wants to be the teenage mass market stereotype? You cut the freedom at EVERY possible corner, you set SPACE, the very empitme of freedom, on rails, and now this! Yes away with Wookiees and Lizards because in a Galaxy with millions of intelligent species it is so realistic that people would shudder over a Lizard face or anything not human. Well and thank you for declaring all your potential customers as small minded ignoramas in the sidenote.
I mean LOOK at what sort of characters people made when their imagination is free! Look at Champions Online or City of Heroes! People create ugly devils, robots, bizarre aliens, furries and whatnot! And they identify with it perfectly happy!!!
Dammit... THIS is it? We are getting HUMANS like in STAR TREK of 1960ies because you can write your ROMANCEs for everyone? I DON'T THE HELL BELIEVE IT.
I know, you all have it in your minds, you have your greandeur vision. But I tell you what Mr Smart: maybe some of your customers are not so small minded and so lack of fantasy and dreams as you think. Maybe some can identify more with lizardmen or ratmen or catmen than with game developers!
Yes you will close it and ban me and you know I don't care! I don't care anymore! My hope has died slice by slice with every new limitation, with every new revelation of what we could NOT do. Back then, when you started to talk about story only, I jokingly said, maybe it's because the rest is so abysmally mediocre. And lo and behold, IT IS. Beginnging from the WOW shoulderpads (WHERE IN STAR WARS DID ANYONE EVER EVER EVER WEAR SHOULDERPADS!), over the clone wars childish graphics, to the "iconic" very standard fare classes, the all too well known combat system - everything outside your wonderful story is mediocre and done hundreds of times before. And now THIS. Is ALL sacrificed on your alter of you oh so important STORY?
You are making a BIG mistake, Mr. I tell you. Yes I am just an angry nobody, some nameless forum poster whose saying he won't buy your game you prolly will laugh about. But when a MMO has a $150 MILLION bucks to spent, I can only say: THIS IS IT? You have 150 million dollars and you are not able to make interesting alien races because of some "idea fixe" about some preset story railroad? Well what about OUR dreams? What about OUR stories? Where is the freedom to be some freak, as you call it? Well I be rather a freak and a blue skinned, four arm REPTILE than another dull humans-only club game where every little bit of freedom and extravaganza is sacrficed for your vision of telling some preset story!
I wish you are SO GOING TO SINK with that, so that the error you have done here is recited by the next TEN Generations of game developers as what NOT to do in game development!
Sungodra, someone who shares his beta experiences from SWTOR in the leakerz.net forum does NOT have the moral credibility to attack me like this. If you reply to my in this manner once more, I will make sure Bioware gets their attention of your NDA breaks. Consider yourself warned.
Are you serious? You go on and on in attack mode like above. Then take what SG said as an attack? ROFL.
Re-read what you wrote above, well, wait until you've calmed down of course. You're basically saying, you didn't design this game the way I wanted, so I hope you crash and burn. Honestly saying something like that doesn't exactly do much for your own credibility. Gutter speak like this is disrespectful, why should anyone reply respectfully to it?
You've raged over every single announcement much in the same way you did here. All because this game isn't hitting every preconceived fantasy you've had about it. Someone with high moral credibility would decide the game isn't for them and leave it at that. Someone with zero moral fiber will foam at the mouth and attack anyone who doesn't give them what they want. Yet you're the victim here?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
I understand their logic and agree with it. But I think they're being overly cautious.
Sure. Being a huge amorphous blob would be pretty lame, a distraction, and an annoyance to other players and make the story seem silly. But I don't think that applies so much to something somewhat humanoid. For example, I think people could feel the connection with a Rodian character, and the story would work fine. My main on SWG was a Rodian, and while story elements weren't involved, I felt pretty comfortable in that skin.
Have to wait and see, but much like the OP, I'm a bit dissapointed.
I think it has more to do with story delivery than looks. Such as voice-over. With aliens like Rodians, Wookies, etc...
They're only capable of their own language. They probably feel players won't have as much of a connection because of all the hisses and grunts. Which I'd agree with, remember how long it took a rodian or wookie to say something in KOTOR? Honestly, who wants to sit around listening to that all day long?
If this were a different game, or didn't contain playable VO, things would most likely be different. I'm sure we'll see trando's, rodians and wookies as NPCs, but that's about it.
Personally I don't like the whole player character voice over thing. Ruins imagination and personalization of one's own character when their voice is the same one voice that everyone of the same gender/race combination has.
But hey, that's me, I'm a roleplayer. I like to use my imagination flesh out my character's personas in my head to determine how they think, act, and other things like their voice if they were to talk. To be given a single generic voice that's unchanging kind of works towards killing personalization of one's own character.
Bioware's decision of course... like the race choices...
Doesn't mean I or others have to agree with it though.
You have to understand that some people like this whole voice over and story thing and that is who they are trying to appeal to. There are enough games out there that you are talking about. Can't we have our game, too?
I like the devs to provide the content, not for me to be dropped off in eisly and make my own content. Just seems all too half assed if you ask me. Laziness on a part of a dev team, tbh.
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
Why because you said it was? Sure..... They said the same thing about many other games. Get in line.
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
Like the game or not... the idea that there's "little" interest in this game is pretty much laid to waste by us being on the 100th post in an 18 hour thread, on a topic that's not terribly controversial... or any other thread for SWTOR, for that matter.
I understand their logic and agree with it. But I think they're being overly cautious.
Sure. Being a huge amorphous blob would be pretty lame, a distraction, and an annoyance to other players and make the story seem silly. But I don't think that applies so much to something somewhat humanoid. For example, I think people could feel the connection with a Rodian character, and the story would work fine. My main on SWG was a Rodian, and while story elements weren't involved, I felt pretty comfortable in that skin.
Have to wait and see, but much like the OP, I'm a bit dissapointed.
I think it has more to do with story delivery than looks. Such as voice-over. With aliens like Rodians, Wookies, etc...
They're only capable of their own language. They probably feel players won't have as much of a connection because of all the hisses and grunts. Which I'd agree with, remember how long it took a rodian or wookie to say something in KOTOR? Honestly, who wants to sit around listening to that all day long?
If this were a different game, or didn't contain playable VO, things would most likely be different. I'm sure we'll see trando's, rodians and wookies as NPCs, but that's about it.
Rodians could speak common, which they did in the Phantom Menace.
Some Wookies could also speak common in the Zahn book trilogy, considered canon by Lucas.
Even if not, I don't see any terribly good in-game excuse for limiting such things.
The reality of VO expense though is another matter. I was thinking that your character responses were just text like most rpg's(you'd never hear your char's voice), but now I recall how ME's dialogue went, and I can see the issue, now.
So, I think the ingame excuse is still pretty weak. But the external reasons are pretty significant. It would add tons to the budget...
I've read it before that wookies could not speak basic, something about their vocal chords, I think it was from the SW encyclopedia (got as a present when I was young), so my bad, didn't realize Zahn had written otherwise (long after that encyclopedia was released).
Which Rodian spoke basic in the PM? I don't quite remember that, most I've seen in movies and games have spoke rodian, with subtitles. Not saying it didn't happen of course, I just don't remember that.
I agree with the last part, the budget for it would be outlandish to add on top of what they've already spent.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
good luck with that one LOL... games terrible and your holding on to what little threads of interest you can muster about the game???yuppp
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
Same thing was said about Star Trek
STO was a rushed MMO on an 18-month development cycle that had numerous problems IN PLAY that people who tried out the beta and otherwise tested it noted before the game came out and it was notably content light. TOR will be released with about 5.5 years of development and so far everyone who plays it likes it or loves it, with the problem list being pretty short (such as they need to tweak some of the animation a little, but much of it is good). The development and kind of reaction each game generated (or is generating) is about as different as night and day.
That said, it still sold quite a lot at launch. The game sucked so it didn't keep many people. I'd bet they made money though, since they spent so little time developing the game.
Beyond that, most of the people "hating" on TOR seem to be using a number of arguments that would be even more powerful if leveled on WoW, a game which is by no stretch a financial failure. (Personally I have played WoW at released and for about 9 months last year, and while it does a lot of things well, I did find it rather repetitive and deprotagonizing -- didn't care for the strict Holy Trinity system either -- and these are things that TOR seems to avoid as well as adding more ways to express yourself.
Comments
Trust me there is no lobby. While you are out doing your quest , everyone else will be running around doing their own. The devs have said there are No lobbies, and when you travel from city to city it is ALL open world... YOu have to read some reviews of people that played it or pay more attention.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Well see, the main complaint is that the more iconic alien races, the ones that are actually alien, aren't playable. If the majority of races you can pick from look and act the same for the most part, then what point is there in actually having so many different races when they're all nearly identical?
As per the whole story thing... honestly?
"It was the same old generic storyline for everyone"
Ironically the same applies for pretty much every bioware game lately:
XX has some unfound power, that they don't know about, until YY happens. Then the great evil ZZ comes about, that only XX can defeat with their uniqueness they learned about from YY.
I have read the reviews.
What the devs have said is all flowers and sunshine.
The reality of it may be what they promise, then again, it can be rather skewed from what they claim. The same has happened for numerous MMOs in the past, so I reserve any concrete judgement until the game is actually released.
I'm simply hard pressed to believe that Bioware would actually be able to pull off a heavily story driven MMO without heavy use of instancing, simply by their track record of how they do things.
I agree. More options would be great if they could somehow fit it into the storyline. Is it gonna keep me from playing? No, it wont.
They would have to create a seperate story for the uniqe species, though. That is why it's not done. If they look fuckable then they can add them, basically. You wouldn't fuck a wookie would you? No...
I understand the situation here. They have so much in this game already and the stories were a major undertaking, that if they had to add even more stories then we may never see a realease date. I am buying this game because of the story mainly, and the IP, and also hoping that there is alot of good pvp in this game. SO I am willing to allow for some sacrafices for the greater good of the quality of the game.
Maybe they will add a few more exotic species, but you need to understand they would have to have a whole new story for those exotic species.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I understand their logic and agree with it. But I think they're being overly cautious.
Sure. Being a huge amorphous blob would be pretty lame, a distraction, and an annoyance to other players and make the story seem silly. But I don't think that applies so much to something somewhat humanoid. For example, I think people could feel the connection with a Rodian character, and the story would work fine. My main on SWG was a Rodian, and while story elements weren't involved, I felt pretty comfortable in that skin.
Have to wait and see, but much like the OP, I'm a bit dissapointed.
This is completely ridiculous. It's lazy because it's not everything you wanted? How would you know how Star Warzy it is?
The decision is based on voice overs, they want the playable characters to have VO. Love them or hate them, VO is the root cause to no playable species that can't speak Basic. Which has nothing to do with Laziness. Who wants to hear hisses and grunts all day long?
Edit- Don't feel like getting a ban or warning today.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
From what we know so far from reviews, and experiences of players who have played the game demo or what not, we know that the game does not seem heavily instanced. It is open world, and then there are certain areas (like rooms in a building, or in a palace) where you might have a story scene. They have these see through invisible walls you walk through, and then your story initializes. Without a loading screen , mind you. People have said that they didn't feel like it was an instance, it felt just as open world as the rest of the game, you walk in get yor story scene and walk out. This is how they seem to have managed the main story line without making you feel like you are cut off from the open world. A bit hard to explain, but most people seem to have liked it.
I am just going off of reviews, demos, what the dev's have saind, and other personal experience... We know most about the starter zones, we don't know much about what happens after that, but I imagine it is the same through out the game. Flashpoints may be alot different. For the most part the game appears to be the majoriity open world.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Take a chill pill, open the window to get some fresh air in your room and read again what mr Erickson wrote. You and other haters here have serious comprehension problems. The man elaborated quite extensively about their decision to allow only humanoid races. It's their rightful choice and it may or may not have an impact on TOR's welfare. You don't agree with this decision? Fair enough, you can try to elaborate on why you think it won't work. Instead you behave like a 5 year old who had his candy taken away.
What's your malfunction? Because you clearly have serious issues. Dozens of long hate posts here and on TOR's website spitting out nothing but venom. How can anyome invest so much time on a game he clearly don't like and won't buy is something beyond my grasp. Are you on some sort of a crusade or what? Is someone pointing a gun on your head forcing you to buy TOR? By the time it goes live there will be a number of good MMO's to choose from. Just let it go already.
My POV about Bioware's race choice: well, i don't care much since i always play humanoids, they occupy the 90% of race choices in MMO's today. They are iconic enough and will help the players immersion in TOR's world. However, i do believe that Bioware could have added a couple more like Rodians, Sullustans and Mon Calamaris. I think people will be satisfied enough. Well, except some palaeolithic SWG whiners but TOR will better off without them anyways.
I think it has more to do with story delivery than looks. Such as voice-over. With aliens like Rodians, Wookies, etc...
They're only capable of their own language. They probably feel players won't have as much of a connection because of all the hisses and grunts. Which I'd agree with, remember how long it took a rodian or wookie to say something in KOTOR? Honestly, who wants to sit around listening to that all day long?
If this were a different game, or didn't contain playable VO, things would most likely be different. I'm sure we'll see trando's, rodians and wookies as NPCs, but that's about it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Indeed. I'm not sure what to say to bringing up this "it isn't an open world" nonesense. People have been reporting that it IS open for something like 4-6 months now, ever since Bioware has allowed outsiders to play the game much. I mean sure, I could go get a link to a dozen such play examples, but that's like asking me to confirm that the game has personal space ships or that you can have a companion (or guilds, or two factions). It's such basic knowledge that I'd think anyone paying attention would already know it -- especially since this comes up again and again and everytime it is disproved. As such, it seems more like something the people making this silly complaint should look up.
If people aren't going to pay attention to news on the game and aren't going to pay attention to discussions in this forum (or others on TOR!), then why bother make uninformed complaints? I certainly see no reason why I have to go do the extremely basic research to disprove them. The people complaining obviously don't really care enough to learn much about the game, so it is unlikely facts will disuade them. If they feel otherwise, they can go almost randomly to a TOR fansite or search the web for gameplay commentary and easily find the information they need (or look at news articles for TOR on this site).
Seems to me most of these complains are from people upset that the game isn't SWG2, even though SWG WAS a major failure of a game even before NGE (it was bleeding 10k customers a month before NGE). Well, the game has never pretended to be a pure sandbox and the devs have never said they want it to be one. That was never a possibility on the table. They have said it will have some sandbox elements, and it is certainly more sandboxy than an MMO like WoW. They've also said that more importantly they intend to make the game structured so that it fosters community and interaction (which is something a LOT of MMOs don't do). Again, this is some pretty basic stuff that has been around for 6 months or so.
Anyhow, I'm tired of constantly running into people who are paying zero attention to the game who come on here and make up false "facts" about what the game has or doesn't have. Such people don't get convinced by evidence. Provide examples of people having played the game that counter these "facts" and they'll just dismiss them as being Bioware stooges, fanboys, or make up some other excuse or loophole for why such information "doesn't count." (And if you aren't one of these many people, then you can get the facts yourself in less than 10 minutes of work. I see no reason to do that little bit of work for you anymore than I see why I should tie your shoelaces).
Personally I don't like the whole player character voice over thing. Ruins imagination and personalization of one's own character when their voice is the same one voice that everyone of the same gender/race combination has.
But hey, that's me, I'm a roleplayer. I like to use my imagination flesh out my character's personas in my head to determine how they think, act, and other things like their voice if they were to talk. To be given a single generic voice that's unchanging kind of works towards killing personalization of one's own character.
Bioware's decision of course... like the race choices...
Doesn't mean I or others have to agree with it though.
hahaha! so much for the roleplaying! "you can't do it right, so we are not going to let you"
bravo
"P.S.: we'll take your money anyway"
Player voices are because there are group conversations -- well, they haven't said that, but I'm pretty darn sure that's the reason as it explains the difference between this and their single player games. Hopefully we'll have a good selection of possible player voices (I'd think they would do this just so you aren't likely to have the same voice if two Jedi Knights are in your party).
You need to read up more. There is one VO per race per class per sex.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Rodians could speak common, which they did in the Phantom Menace.
Some Wookies could also speak common in the Zahn book trilogy, considered canon by Lucas.
Even if not, I don't see any terribly good in-game excuse for limiting such things.
The reality of VO expense though is another matter. I was thinking that your character responses were just text like most rpg's(you'd never hear your char's voice), but now I recall how ME's dialogue went, and I can see the issue, now.
So, I think the ingame excuse is still pretty weak. But the external reasons are pretty significant. It would add tons to the budget...
Are you serious? You go on and on in attack mode like above. Then take what SG said as an attack? ROFL.
Re-read what you wrote above, well, wait until you've calmed down of course. You're basically saying, you didn't design this game the way I wanted, so I hope you crash and burn. Honestly saying something like that doesn't exactly do much for your own credibility. Gutter speak like this is disrespectful, why should anyone reply respectfully to it?
You've raged over every single announcement much in the same way you did here. All because this game isn't hitting every preconceived fantasy you've had about it. Someone with high moral credibility would decide the game isn't for them and leave it at that. Someone with zero moral fiber will foam at the mouth and attack anyone who doesn't give them what they want. Yet you're the victim here?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
anyone who actually believes they didnt add in strange alien creatures because they conflict with the player identifying with their character is retarded....
biowares REAL reason was that they wanted to use the same exact human body with different skins on it to cut down animation time, they also did not want to change their whole precious story line to accomodate alien creatures...
this game looks horrible and is going down the tubes... i dont see anything star wars about this game at all.
www.RisingSunGaming.com
#RisingSunGaming
You have to understand that some people like this whole voice over and story thing and that is who they are trying to appeal to. There are enough games out there that you are talking about. Can't we have our game, too?
I like the devs to provide the content, not for me to be dropped off in eisly and make my own content. Just seems all too half assed if you ask me. Laziness on a part of a dev team, tbh.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
After their rolling In dough and successful, which they will be, I'm gonna refer back to this post.
Why because you said it was? Sure..... They said the same thing about many other games. Get in line.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I'm no fan of how this game is turning out, but don't delude yourself.
This game will make plenty of money just because of the IP alone.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Like the game or not... the idea that there's "little" interest in this game is pretty much laid to waste by us being on the 100th post in an 18 hour thread, on a topic that's not terribly controversial... or any other thread for SWTOR, for that matter.
I've read it before that wookies could not speak basic, something about their vocal chords, I think it was from the SW encyclopedia (got as a present when I was young), so my bad, didn't realize Zahn had written otherwise (long after that encyclopedia was released).
Which Rodian spoke basic in the PM? I don't quite remember that, most I've seen in movies and games have spoke rodian, with subtitles. Not saying it didn't happen of course, I just don't remember that.
I agree with the last part, the budget for it would be outlandish to add on top of what they've already spent.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Same thing was said about Star Trek
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
STO was a rushed MMO on an 18-month development cycle that had numerous problems IN PLAY that people who tried out the beta and otherwise tested it noted before the game came out and it was notably content light. TOR will be released with about 5.5 years of development and so far everyone who plays it likes it or loves it, with the problem list being pretty short (such as they need to tweak some of the animation a little, but much of it is good). The development and kind of reaction each game generated (or is generating) is about as different as night and day.
That said, it still sold quite a lot at launch. The game sucked so it didn't keep many people. I'd bet they made money though, since they spent so little time developing the game.
Beyond that, most of the people "hating" on TOR seem to be using a number of arguments that would be even more powerful if leveled on WoW, a game which is by no stretch a financial failure. (Personally I have played WoW at released and for about 9 months last year, and while it does a lot of things well, I did find it rather repetitive and deprotagonizing -- didn't care for the strict Holy Trinity system either -- and these are things that TOR seems to avoid as well as adding more ways to express yourself.