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Limited Species to Human-like because of Story.

One of the staff at BW commented about the limitations of races/species to simple human style toons:

Hey Folks,



Sorry for the confusion. Booth chat is, let's be clear, not an official information release. What you got was one line of an extended conversation that was had between me and one of the players at the booth. We started talking about what made a hero in Star Wars and then, once that was clear, there were some jokes about what the romances would look like had we gone for the toybox approach of letting you play anything in the action figure line. That's the part of the conversation the quote came from.



The first part was merely a repetition of something we've said before. Namely that lead characters in an RPG must be something the player can relate to. There has never been a movie or major Star Wars series with a complete freak job as the lead and that's because dramatically it doesn't work. We don't understand what it means to be a giant lizard or a droid or a walking ball of jelly. We love the weird characters but they are always the sidekicks, not the emotional connection in the movie. To do an RPG that way every NPC you ran into would have to react to you depending on their own cultural bias and the entire "into the strange" adventure that is Star Wars would be lost as you would be the strangest thing in the room. People would constantly be asking you for information about your weird species and their emotional content that the vast majority of players simply wouldn't have and their ability to really BE this character would be nil.



So whether it’s Dragon Age, Mass Effect or The Old Republic, PCs are near enough to humans for us to crawl into their skin. They have generally understandable facial expressions, they don't look ludicrous speaking the basic language, they can interact with the rest of the galaxy without a constant "what the heck?" reaction from the NPCs. The freaks, the droids, the weird that we get to know and learn about--that's where our companions come in.



It's okay to turn to your companions and say "What are you supposed to be?" It's not okay to look in the mirror and say that.



In the future I can see a day where we would do a Trandoshan or Wookiee type story but it would have to be just that. Not a simple graphic swap where now your smuggler is a giant lizard man and nobody notices but a full class story where you learn what it means to be this strange alien and deal with the rest of the galaxy and their reactions. For the present, however, our heroes are our projections of self, headed into a galaxy of wonders and adventures.



I know that this isn't what some people want but I hope it helps them understand that game design isn't simply throwing random features into a game because they seem cool. You have to have a goal, a final holistic ideal that you're trying to hit. The Old Republic is, and always has been, about starring in your own version of a Star Wars movie. Not playing a background character from scene 5, not about living a humdrum day to day existence in the Star Wars worlds (there are no refreshers--sorry!) and not about pulling out the extended action figure line and getting to use it as virtual costume party. None of these are, by themselves, bad goals and could absolutely be fun in a very different sort of game. But in TOR they would work directly against what we were trying to achieve.



So did we limit species choice for romances? No. Did we limit them for our goal of bringing cinematic storytelling and the dream of living the Star Wars movies to the MMO space? Absolutely.     



Hope that helps!



Daniel

Source:  http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4157987#edit4157987





As a player that avoids human toons, and goes for the Ogre, Tauren, Goblin, Ratonga, Bothan, Dwarf, etc, this is rather disappointing.

If they were going to limit the species because of story, then I wish they would have picked 5 human races (red/green/blue humans) and 4 Less Human races (Trands, Rodans, Bothans, Natolians, etc), to write the story about -- following a more WoW or GW2 racial style, than a Human-centric spread.

So it looks like we will be limited to basic humans (the current races are all simply humans with different skin colors, tattooing and head options.

 

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Comments

  • ZoeMcCloskeyZoeMcCloskey Member UncommonPosts: 1,372

    Hmm, I think Chiss for me if I ever play this.

    Sorry I have little to add to the topics post, lol.  I do agree most of the time for a good story though you need something that can be related to.

    Guess I should have elaborated to say that could be just about anything imo :P

    image
  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    (This is my open word to Mr Erickson from their forum. God I am so pissed.)

     

    Thats the BIGGEST LOAD of Bullshit I have heard in years!



    Human players can't play aliens because they can't identify enough? Well why did people play Bothans or Mon Calamari or Wookiee in SWG, why did people play Ratonga or Sarnath in Everquest 2, why do you many request to play Droid in SWTOR? I mean, heck even in kiddie game WOW people are playing walking COWS!



    I mean WTH? This sort of explanation is just a big heap of hrosedung Sorry to be gross... but maybe THEIR imagination is so narrow. And ok, playing a blob or an intelligent ocean is difficult. But damnation, a Sci-Fi setting like STAR WARS has so many aliens which people would want to play, how in the 23 names of the devil can you get a huge, fantastic IP like STAR WARS and then produce such a frigging stream of crap! I am out of my mind in anger! Well, permaban me if you want, but I curse the day they ever allowed you to get your hands on Star Wars, because you turn is upside down! Ever thought that maybe not everyone wants to be the teenage mass market stereotype? You cut the freedom at EVERY possible corner, you set SPACE, the very empitme of freedom, on rails, and now this! Yes away with Wookiees and Lizards because in a Galaxy with millions of intelligent species it is so realistic that people would shudder over a Lizard face or anything not human. Well and thank you for declaring all your potential customers as small minded ignoramas in the sidenote.



    I mean LOOK at what sort of characters people made when their imagination is free! Look at Champions Online or City of Heroes! People create ugly devils, robots, bizarre aliens, furries and whatnot! And they identify with it perfectly happy!!!



    Dammit... THIS is it? We are getting HUMANS like in STAR TREK of 1960ies because you can write your ROMANCEs for everyone? I DON'T THE HELL BELIEVE IT.





    I know, you all have it in your minds, you have your greandeur vision. But I tell you what Mr Smart: maybe some of your customers are not so small minded and so lack of fantasy and dreams as you think. Maybe some can identify more with lizardmen or ratmen or catmen than with game developers!



    Yes you will close it and ban me and you know I don't care! I don't care anymore! My hope has died slice by slice with every new limitation, with every new revelation of what we could NOT do. Back then, when you started to talk about story only, I jokingly said, maybe it's because the rest is so abysmally mediocre. And lo and behold, IT IS. Beginnging from the WOW shoulderpads (WHERE IN STAR WARS DID ANYONE EVER EVER EVER WEAR SHOULDERPADS!), over the clone wars childish graphics, to the "iconic" very standard fare classes, the all too well known combat system - everything outside your wonderful story is mediocre and done hundreds of times before. And now THIS. Is ALL sacrificed on your alter of you oh so important STORY?



    You are making a BIG mistake, Mr. I tell you. Yes I am just an angry nobody, some nameless forum poster whose saying he won't buy your game you prolly will laugh about. But when a MMO has a $150 MILLION bucks to spent, I can only say: THIS IS IT? You have 150 million dollars and you are not able to make interesting alien races because of some "idea fixe" about some preset story railroad? Well what about OUR dreams? What about OUR stories? Where is the freedom to be some freak, as you call it? Well I be rather a freak and a blue skinned, four arm REPTILE than another dull humans-only club game where every little bit of freedom and extravaganza is sacrficed for your vision of telling some preset story!



    I wish you are SO GOING TO SINK with that, so that the error you have done here is recited by the next TEN Generations of game developers as what NOT to do in game development!

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    Going to parse what I wrote down in the official thread:

     

    Daniel, 



    why do you feel obliged to make us think you are designing a game for people that lacks imagination? 

  • spookytoothspookytooth Member Posts: 508

    Make some real starwars speices playable....and then let me decide if I want to play them. They seem most concerened with making sure people are playing their game, their way. And player choices arnt even on their radar.

  • agagaagaga Member Posts: 273

    This is just another example of the strange dishonesty of the Bioware team when it comes tom talking to the customers.

    They tell us; 'You can't have non-human lead characters because you can't relate to them as heroes'.

    What they really mean is: 'You can't have non-human lead characters because that would mean we would have to write and animate a non-human storyline in parallal with the human storylines we have written'.

    Now why couldn't they just say that? I don't think anyone would have objected.

    It's just like their excuses for the crappy rail-shooter space element.

  • RageaholRageahol Member UncommonPosts: 1,127

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Thats the BIGGEST LOAD of BULLSHIT I have heard in years!

    Human players can't play aliens because they can't identify enough? Well why did people play Bothans or Mon Calamari or Wookiee in SWG, why did people play Ratonga or Sarnath in Everquest 2, why do you many request to play Droid in SWTOR?

    I mean WTF? This sort of explanation is just a big heap of horsedung! Sorry to be gross... but maybe THEIR imagination is so narrow. And ok, playing a blob or an intelligent ocean is difficult. But damnation, a Sci-Fi setting like STAR WARS has so many aliens which people would want to play, how in the 23 names of the devil can you get a huge, fantastic IP like STAR WARS and then puke out such a frigging stream of crap!

    I mean LOOK at what sort of characters people made when their imagination is free! Look at Champions Online or City of Heroes! People create ugly devils, robots, bizarre aliens, furries and whatnot! And they identify with it perfectly happy!!!

    Dammit... THIS is it? We are getting HUMANS like in DAMN STAR TREK of 1960ies because you can write your ROMANCEs for everyone? I DON'T THE HELL BELIEVE IT.

    NAILED IT!

    This simple fact that races that have been playable in many of the other star wars games are not playable here is just plain stupid. 

    150 million dollars and i can not play a DAMN MON CALAMARI !

    it really makes me shake my head.   SAD FACE 

    image

  • agagaagaga Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Going to parse what I wrote down in the official thread:

     

    Daniel, 



    why do you feel obliged to make us think you are designing a game for people that lacks imagination? 

    Damn good question.

    The real answer, the one he can't say, is: 'Because we're making the NGE for the Clone Wars generation'.

  • agagaagaga Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by needalife214

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Thats the BIGGEST LOAD of BULLSHIT I have heard in years!

    Human players can't play aliens because they can't identify enough? Well why did people play Bothans or Mon Calamari or Wookiee in SWG, why did people play Ratonga or Sarnath in Everquest 2, why do you many request to play Droid in SWTOR?

    I mean WTF? This sort of explanation is just a big heap of horsedung! Sorry to be gross... but maybe THEIR imagination is so narrow. And ok, playing a blob or an intelligent ocean is difficult. But damnation, a Sci-Fi setting like STAR WARS has so many aliens which people would want to play, how in the 23 names of the devil can you get a huge, fantastic IP like STAR WARS and then puke out such a frigging stream of crap!

    I mean LOOK at what sort of characters people made when their imagination is free! Look at Champions Online or City of Heroes! People create ugly devils, robots, bizarre aliens, furries and whatnot! And they identify with it perfectly happy!!!

    Dammit... THIS is it? We are getting HUMANS like in DAMN STAR TREK of 1960ies because you can write your ROMANCEs for everyone? I DON'T THE HELL BELIEVE IT.

    NAILED IT!

    This simple fact that races that have been playable in many of the other star wars games are not playable here is just plain stupid. 

    150 million dollars and i can not play a DAMN MON CALAMARI !

    it really makes me shake my head.   SAD FACE 

    Funny to think that even SWG, which they turned into an absolute dog of a game, you COULD play a Mon Calamari AND you could fight and fly in space.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Thats the BIGGEST LOAD of BULLSHIT I have heard in years!

    Human players can't play aliens because they can't identify enough? Well why did people play Bothans or Mon Calamari or Wookiee in SWG, why did people play Ratonga or Sarnath in Everquest 2, why do you many request to play Droid in SWTOR?

    I mean WTF? This sort of explanation is just a big heap of horsedung! Sorry to be gross... but maybe THEIR imagination is so narrow. And ok, playing a blob or an intelligent ocean is difficult. But damnation, a Sci-Fi setting like STAR WARS has so many aliens which people would want to play, how in the 23 names of the devil can you get a huge, fantastic IP like STAR WARS and then puke out such a frigging stream of crap!

    I mean LOOK at what sort of characters people made when their imagination is free! Look at Champions Online or City of Heroes! People create ugly devils, robots, bizarre aliens, furries and whatnot! And they identify with it perfectly happy!!!

    Dammit... THIS is it? We are getting HUMANS like in DAMN STAR TREK of 1960ies because you can write your ROMANCEs for everyone? I DON'T THE HELL BELIEVE IT.

    CoH has the advantage of the fact that the really strange stuff has, essentially, a unique origin.  One person's mutant lizard character isn't the same as another.  Hence if they imagine that they behave differently, that still works.

    On the other hand, a race like the Trandoshans is indeed an entire race and so some of its unique psychology should be consistant.  They should really FEEL alien in a way that human-like races don't (though they be similar in others).  If one creative team handles how they all behave, the race can be more consistent and interesting.

    That would be a good justification for it.  To do that they'd have to expand on Star Wars lore and really look into making aliens different (Mon Calamari that act in a way that reflects their aquatic and non-mammalian nature for instance, and Trandoshans that act in a way that reflects their reptilian origin).  I hope they indeed do this, but we'll have to see.

    Beyond that it does simplify certain coding (such as romances) and helps make them more sensible (otherwise half the Mon Cals would be running around with very human-looking mates...if not more than half).

  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706

    I don't really care that much, most of, if not all of the star wars aliens don't interest me. The only time I liked playing a non human in a game was with my tauren in WoW.

  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786

    Originally posted by needalife214

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Thats the BIGGEST LOAD of BULLSHIT I have heard in years!

    Human players can't play aliens because they can't identify enough? Well why did people play Bothans or Mon Calamari or Wookiee in SWG, why did people play Ratonga or Sarnath in Everquest 2, why do you many request to play Droid in SWTOR?

    I mean WTF? This sort of explanation is just a big heap of horsedung! Sorry to be gross... but maybe THEIR imagination is so narrow. And ok, playing a blob or an intelligent ocean is difficult. But damnation, a Sci-Fi setting like STAR WARS has so many aliens which people would want to play, how in the 23 names of the devil can you get a huge, fantastic IP like STAR WARS and then puke out such a frigging stream of crap!

    I mean LOOK at what sort of characters people made when their imagination is free! Look at Champions Online or City of Heroes! People create ugly devils, robots, bizarre aliens, furries and whatnot! And they identify with it perfectly happy!!!

    Dammit... THIS is it? We are getting HUMANS like in DAMN STAR TREK of 1960ies because you can write your ROMANCEs for everyone? I DON'T THE HELL BELIEVE IT.

    NAILED IT!

    This simple fact that races that have been playable in many of the other star wars games are not playable here is just plain stupid. 

    150 million dollars and i can not play a DAMN MON CALAMARI !

    it really makes me shake my head.   SAD FACE 

    I played a short fat MON CALAMAR in SWG. 

    I think it is a voice acting issue. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    i guess this is where the split is between people who favor sandbox elements above story, and those who favor story above sandbox elements.

    Those who don't care much for Bioware's direction of deepened storytelling are more interested in the largest range of freedom and flexibility, wanting to play all races possible, being able to do whatever you want, build wherever you want, and story is only restrictive in their eyes. It's clear that SW:TOR won't cater to them.

    Then there's those who like story immersion and accept the restrictions it might bring, favoring story above sandbox elements. That's the group SW:TOR will be catering for.

     

    While there are some MMO's that have very alternative races to pick from - like EQ2 for example - this doesn't apply to all MMO's: a lot of fantasy races as elf and dwarf are as humanlike as Chiss or Twi'Lek, while some MMO's as GW or Aion had only humanlike races to choose from.

    Looking at movies and series, it becomes even clearer. A lot of the alien races that feature most prominently are all basically humanlike in appearance, look at all the Star Trek series, and Star Trek wasn't even unique in it, Babylon 5, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, it's strange (well, not really) how much alien races resemble humans in appearance as well as psychology.

     

    In short: would I like to have even more choice in races? Yeah, but I also don't really care. So I don't feel it as a restriction.

    For those that do, I restate what I said earlier: if you're looking for SWG2 or for all kinds of sandbox-type elements, then SW:TOR is clearly not for you. There are other games that cater that taste better.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • Asmiroth20Asmiroth20 Member Posts: 346

        Most of the interesting characters in Star Wars were humaniods and droids.  Jabba the Hutt, while interesting, didn't get around very much...lol.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by agaga

    Funny to think that even SWG, which they turned into an absolute dog of a game, you COULD play a Mon Calamari AND you could fight and fly in space.

    Funny to think that SWG didn't have space at launch at all, that it was bleeding 10,000 subs per month before any NGE, and that all kinds of Jedi were running around in SWG in a time that only Luke and Yoda were around. Also apparently, a lot of SWG players thought the SWG ground combat and questing was even more shit than SW:TOR has already shown.

    What I'm saying is, if you like SWG so much and hate story or the direction that Bioware has chosen for their game, then SW:TOR is clearly not for you.

    SW:TOR is not SWG2, but it will be more Star Wars than SWG.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • spookytoothspookytooth Member Posts: 508

    Originally posted by cyphers

    i guess this is where the split is between people who favor sandbox elements above story, and those who favor story above sandbox elements.

    Those who don't care much for Bioware's direction of deepened storytelling are more interested in the largest range of freedom and flexibility, wanting to play all races possible, being able to do whatever you want, build wherever you want, and story is only restrictive in their eyes. It's clear that SW:TOR won't cater to them.

    Then there's those who like story immersion and accept the restrictions it might bring, favoring story above sandbox elements. That's the group SW:TOR will be catering for.

     

    While there are some MMO's that have very alternative races to pick from - like EQ2 for example - this doesn't apply to all MMO's: a lot of fantasy races as elf and dwarf are as humanlike as Chiss or Twi'Lek, while some MMO's as GW or Aion had only humanlike races to choose from.

    Looking at movies and series, it becomes even clearer. A lot of the alien races that feature most prominently are all basically humanlike in appearance, look at all the Star Trek series, and Star Trek wasn't even unique in it, Babylon 5, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, it's strange (well, not really) how much alien races resemble humans in appearance as well as psychology.

     

    In short: would I like to have even more choice in races? Yeah, but I also don't really care. So I don't feel it as a restriction.

    For those that do, I restate what I said earlier: if you're looking for SWG2 or for all kinds of sandbox-type elements, then SW:TOR is clearly not for you. There are other games that cater that taste better.

    this has nothing to do with sandbox. This also has nothing to do with story. Just because I am playing a mon-cal it would not somehow magically change the story around. If someones game immersion is somehow effected by playing an oddball race then choose to play a human or something....oh but that choice isnt there to begin with - bioware is making that choice for us.

    More races would not take anyting from the game; it could only add to it.

  • agagaagaga Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by cyphers

    i guess this is where the split is between people who favor sandbox elements above story, and those who favor story above sandbox elements.

    Those who don't care much for Bioware's direction of deepened storytelling are more interested in the largest range of freedom and flexibility, wanting to play all races possible, being able to do whatever you want, build wherever you want, and story is only restrictive in their eyes. It's clear that SW:TOR won't cater to them.

    Then there's those who like story immersion and accept the restrictions it might bring, favoring story above sandbox elements. That's the group SW:TOR will be catering for.

     

    While there are some MMO's that have very alternative races to pick from - like EQ2 for example - this doesn't apply to all MMO's: a lot of fantasy races as elf and dwarf are as humanlike as Chiss or Twi'Lek, while some MMO's as GW or Aion had only humanlike races to choose from.

    Looking at movies and series, it becomes even clearer. A lot of the alien races that feature most prominently are all basically humanlike in appearance, look at all the Star Trek series, and Star Trek wasn't even unique in it, Babylon 5, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, it's strange (well, not really) how much alien races resemble humans in appearance as well as psychology.

     

    In short: would I like to have even more choice in races? Yeah, but I also don't really care. So I don't feel it as a restriction.

    For those that do, I restate what I said earlier: if you're looking for SWG2 or for all kinds of sandbox-type elements, then SW:TOR is clearly not for you. There are other games that cater that taste better.

    Your point would be valid if they were making a movie.

    They're not. They're making a game.

  • agagaagaga Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by cyphers

    Originally posted by agaga



    Funny to think that even SWG, which they turned into an absolute dog of a game, you COULD play a Mon Calamari AND you could fight and fly in space.

    Funny to think that SWG didn't have space at launch at all, that it was bleeding 10,000 subs per month before any NGE, and that all kinds of Jedi were running around in SWG in a time that only Luke and Yoda were around. Also apparently, a lot of SWG players thought the SWG ground combat and questing was even more shit than SW:TOR has already shown.

    What I'm saying is, if you like SWG so much and hate story or the direction that Bioware has chosen for their game, then SW:TOR is clearly not for you.

    SW:TOR is not SWG2, but it will be more Star Wars than SWG.

    SW: TOR is not SWG2 and it will be even less Star Wars than the Clone Wars kiddy cartoons.

    That, I am afraid, seems inevitable.

    However, it looks like it's going to be a pretty flashy if limited srpg online, Kotor 2.5 if you like, and even though we now have to rent to pay a game we're going to have to buy anyway, I'm sure it'll be OK>

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by spookytooth

    this has nothing to do with sandbox. This also has nothing to do with story. Just because I am playing a mon-cal it would not somehow magically change the story around. If someones game immersion is somehow effected by playing an oddball race then choose to play a human or something....oh but that choice isnt there to begin with - bioware is making that choice for us.

    More races would not take anyting from the game; it could only add to it.

    Bioware is indeed making that choice for you: they've limited the number of races that you'll be able to play. There will be a number of races that you couldn't play in SWG but can play in SW:TOR, and there will be a number of races that you can't play and that you could in SWG. They've also made the choice to limit the races to humanoid in order to better suit the story aspect they intend to implement ingame. That's the trade off, less races to choose from for a deepened storytelling aspect.

     

    I can imagine that people who don't care much for story in a MMO, that they find that a bad trade off. Then again, that's the direction Bioware has chosen for their game.


    Originally posted by agaga

    Your point would be valid if they were making a movie.

    They're not. They're making a game.

    They're making a game with a deepened story component.

    Storytelling follows the same basic structures whether it's in a book, movie, series or game.

     

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • kaliniskalinis Member Posts: 1,428

    While i dont have a problem with biowares direction in sw tor. I do think mon calamari with admiral akbar, rhodians , trandoshans and wookies are all a huge part of star wars lore. I dont mind having to play human looking races i just hope in future expacs that sw tor makes wookies , rodians, mon calamari and trandoshans playable.

    They have a huge place in star wars lore from admiral akbar to chewbacca. even if he is a side kick in the movies hes a huge character. Not to mention wookies were a huge part of the war against palpatine. What with being enslaved. Bothans also.

    A bothan became chief of state in the novels so id love to have these races added in the future. Right now im just looking forward to playing a pure sith . A zabrak and a chiss.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by agaga

    SW: TOR is not SWG2 and it will be even less Star Wars than the Clone Wars kiddy cartoons.

    That, I am afraid, seems inevitable.

    Now now, now you're starting to sound ludicrous and as a disgruntled SWG vet who can't seem to let go unlike some others.

    It's 'inevitable' that SW:TOR will be less Star Wars than the Clone Star Wars kiddy cartoons?

    Lol.

     

    You're doing your case no good with coming up with statements that even braindead morons would find laughable.

    I guess the next step will be you saying that KOTOR wasn't Star Wars.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • agagaagaga Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by cyphers

    Originally posted by spookytooth



    this has nothing to do with sandbox. This also has nothing to do with story. Just because I am playing a mon-cal it would not somehow magically change the story around. If someones game immersion is somehow effected by playing an oddball race then choose to play a human or something....oh but that choice isnt there to begin with - bioware is making that choice for us.

    More races would not take anyting from the game; it could only add to it.

    Bioware is indeed making that choice for you: they've limited the number of races that you'll be able to play. There will be a number of races that you couldn't play in SWG but can play in SW:TOR, and there will be a number of races that you can't play and that you could in SWG. They've also made the choice to limit the races to humanoid in order to better suit the story aspect they intend to implement ingame. That's the trade off, less races to choose from for a deepened storytelling aspect.

     

    I can imagine that people who don't care much for story in a MMO, that they find that a bad trade off. Then again, that's the direction Bioware has chosen for their game.


    Originally posted by agaga



    Your point would be valid if they were making a movie.

    They're not. They're making a game.

    They're making a game with a deepened story component.

    Storytelling follows the same basic structures whether it's in a book, movie, series or game.

     

    'A deepend story component'? LOL

    I strongly recommend you avoid using the marketing jargon Bioware is employing. 'A deepend story component' is just PR speak for 'You must follow our path through this game by making one of three choices. Good, Bad, Neutral'.

    Storytelling absolutely does NOT follow the same basic structures. A film does net tell a story in the same way a book does for god's sake. For a start, a film is moving media within a finite timeframe... There are so many more obvious differences, it's almost pointless to list them all but, for goodness sake, think!

  • DrakxiiDrakxii Member Posts: 594

    This game is so going to be another WAR/STO/AoC.  Just just keep cutting things that both MMO and SW fans  in the name of story.  I was looking for to SWTOR when it was an MMO with story but now it's STORY!!! with other people running around that you can group with or fight. 

    I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  • agagaagaga Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by cyphers

    Originally posted by agaga



    SW: TOR is not SWG2 and it will be even less Star Wars than the Clone Wars kiddy cartoons.

    That, I am afraid, seems inevitable.

    Now now, now you're starting to sound ludicrous and as a disgruntled SWG vet who can't seem to let go unlike some others.

    It's 'inevitable' that SW:TOR will be less Star Wars than the Clone Star Wars kiddy cartoons?

    Lol.

     

    You're doing your case no good with coming up with statements that even braindead morons would find laughable.

    I guess the next step will be you saying that KOTOR wasn't Star Wars.

    A/ You say: "LOL"

    B/. Then you say: "You're doing your case no good with coming up with statements that even braindead morons would find laughable"

    Umm, can you see the conclusion to draw there?

  • agagaagaga Member Posts: 273

    Originally posted by Drakxii

    This game is so going to be another WAR/STO/AoC.  Just just keep cutting things that both MMO and SW fans  in the name of story.  I was looking for to SWTOR when it was an MMO with story but now it's STORY!!! with other people running around that you can group with or fight. 

    You're right and, once again, this industry is going to learn that nothing is too big to fail.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678

    Originally posted by spookytooth

    this has nothing to do with sandbox. This also has nothing to do with story. Just because I am playing a mon-cal it would not somehow magically change the story around. If someones game immersion is somehow effected by playing an oddball race then choose to play a human or something....oh but that choice isnt there to begin with - bioware is making that choice for us.

    More races would not take anyting from the game; it could only add to it.

    If you play a Mon Cal it SHOULD affect your story.  Your psychology should be different and that should affect a good bit of how you interact.  If it doesn't affect story then all you are is a human in a funny suit.

    Frankly, that's a problem with a lot of MMOs.  Take WoW.  Taurens, Draenei, etc....despite blatant lore differences, they all act like humans in funny suits by and large.  Any attempts Blizzard might make to undue this perception can NEVER take hold because so many players have characters of those races and don't care enough about lore to role-play differently.  This makes the world a lot less immersive.  (Despite using WoW as an example, you can easily pick any other game that has characters are far from human).

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