General: Fighting Words: EQ2 vs Vanguard Pt. 1

SBFord

Last week's World of Warcraft vs Lord of the Rings Online was a hit in Adam Tingle's new column, Fighting Words. This week, Adam pits two Sony Online Entertainment heavy-hitters against one another: Everquest 2 and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Adam's comparison of areas such as Player Characters, Community and "Everquest-ness" is so extensive that we've divided the fight into two rounds. Read Round One today and come back in a few days for Round Two of Everquest II vs Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

Today, dear reader, the very contents of this article will force me to go into hiding after its publication. Just which Sony Online Entertainment game is better? Just which makes use of Brad McQuaid’s imagination best? Perhaps it is the golden child EverQuest 2? Or maybe it is the slightly scruffy and under supported Vanguard? Place your hand by your mouth in preparation and I will reveal the answers you crave. Remember to leave your knives and guns at the door, and as always, don’t go for the faces. Get ready for the SOE Bloodbath!

Read more Fighting Words: EQ2 vs Vanguard.

tman5

Don't care about these games.  Just wanted to say, nice "Warriors" reference.

penandpaper

I think the OP is dead on. 

The only thing I disagree on is graphics.  The autohor didn't factor in character models.  And no offense, but Vanguard has some of the worst looking models out there.  EQ's are pretty and different, and at times stunning. 

Lobotomist

Look at Vanguard is best what old school MMO could ofer all rolled in one hugamonguos game.

Unfortunately this game was abandoned after the shaky launch. It literaly has team of 2 developers working on it. Ever since it was taken by SOE.

Which is crazy.

 

EQ2 on other hand is ugly ugly joke. The game is so bad , people are not interested in playing it even as free version.

It was just a frankenstein monster cooked up to combat WOW. In which it laughably failed.

But SOE keeps and keeps investing all its resources in it ...

Crazy. ... But thats SOE

Daakkon

it's a real shame what happened to Vanguard, it was a great game minus all the bugs at launch. I really wish I had the money to buy it off of soe and give it the support it deserves.

Ozivois

In this day and age there is no reason to go back and start playing an MMO that is more than 3 years old unless you have a bunch of friends in there wooing you.  So in other words, this discussion is in the category of "nobody cares" unless the purpose is to potentially upset those who are currently playing one of them.

 

I played both and can tell you that both "were" amazing games.  However, now they are old.  I do miss the bg music for EQ2 though.

 

Daakkon

Originally posted by Ozivois

In this day and age there is no reason to go back and start playing an MMO that is more than 3 years old unless you have a bunch of friends in there wooing you.  So in other words, this discussion is in the category of "nobody cares" unless the purpose is to potentially upset those who are currently playing one of them.

 

I played both and can tell you that both "were" amazing games.  However, now they are old.  I do miss the bg music for EQ2 though.

 

I disagree with you, older mmo's are whats good, I just recently started playing EQ1 again, still playing UO, am an alpha/beta tester for EVE and would still be playing it if I didn't get perma-banned. New mmo's suck imo

Ozivois

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

Originally posted by Ozivois

In this day and age there is no reason to go back and start playing an MMO that is more than 3 years old unless you have a bunch of friends in there wooing you.  So in other words, this discussion is in the category of "nobody cares" unless the purpose is to potentially upset those who are currently playing one of them.

 

I played both and can tell you that both "were" amazing games.  However, now they are old.  I do miss the bg music for EQ2 though.

 

I disagree with you, older mmo's are whats good, I just recently started playing EQ1 again, still playing UO, am an alpha/beta tester for EVE and would still be playing it if I didn't get perma-banned. New mmo's suck imo

 I am sure you have social reasons for going back to EQ1 - there is no way you can convince me that it's because it is the best MMO to play these days.

Daakkon

Originally posted by Ozivois

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

Originally posted by Ozivois

In this day and age there is no reason to go back and start playing an MMO that is more than 3 years old unless you have a bunch of friends in there wooing you.  So in other words, this discussion is in the category of "nobody cares" unless the purpose is to potentially upset those who are currently playing one of them.

 

I played both and can tell you that both "were" amazing games.  However, now they are old.  I do miss the bg music for EQ2 though.

 

I disagree with you, older mmo's are whats good, I just recently started playing EQ1 again, still playing UO, am an alpha/beta tester for EVE and would still be playing it if I didn't get perma-banned. New mmo's suck imo

 I am sure you have social reasons for going back to EQ1 - there is no way you can convince me that it's because it is the best MMO to play these days.

actually no I don't, I am on a private emulated server....I just missed the nostalgia of EQ that much, graphics come last to me unlike every new mmo player these days.

insanex

MMORPG.com is a neat place. It truly is. I get to read all about these older games - a good thing IMO because development moves on and new and updated content and bugfixes aren't always in the news. However, reading about these games makes me want to play them. Not an entirely bad thing, but time can only be divided so many ways and still be useful. So anyway, good article, now I'm off to distract myself as I wait patiently for LoTRO F2P.

insanex

Ozivois

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

Originally posted by Ozivois

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

Originally posted by Ozivois

In this day and age there is no reason to go back and start playing an MMO that is more than 3 years old unless you have a bunch of friends in there wooing you.  So in other words, this discussion is in the category of "nobody cares" unless the purpose is to potentially upset those who are currently playing one of them.

 

I played both and can tell you that both "were" amazing games.  However, now they are old.  I do miss the bg music for EQ2 though.

 

I disagree with you, older mmo's are whats good, I just recently started playing EQ1 again, still playing UO, am an alpha/beta tester for EVE and would still be playing it if I didn't get perma-banned. New mmo's suck imo

 I am sure you have social reasons for going back to EQ1 - there is no way you can convince me that it's because it is the best MMO to play these days.

actually no I don't, I am on a private emulated server....I just missed the nostalgia of EQ that much, graphics come last to me unlike every new mmo player these days.

 Well, I am an old mmo player and graphics/sound extremely important to me, so to each his own I guess.  My standards have been raised as the technology as improved over the last 15 years.  While EQ graphics were immersive in 1999 they now appear paper-dollish and shallow.  Also, requiring 2 minutes of auto-attack and spamming kick and bash to kill 1 level 2 rat just doesn't cut it for me anymore. 

Daakkon

Originally posted by Ozivois

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

Originally posted by Ozivois

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

Originally posted by Ozivois

In this day and age there is no reason to go back and start playing an MMO that is more than 3 years old unless you have a bunch of friends in there wooing you.  So in other words, this discussion is in the category of "nobody cares" unless the purpose is to potentially upset those who are currently playing one of them.

 

I played both and can tell you that both "were" amazing games.  However, now they are old.  I do miss the bg music for EQ2 though.

 

I disagree with you, older mmo's are whats good, I just recently started playing EQ1 again, still playing UO, am an alpha/beta tester for EVE and would still be playing it if I didn't get perma-banned. New mmo's suck imo

 I am sure you have social reasons for going back to EQ1 - there is no way you can convince me that it's because it is the best MMO to play these days.

actually no I don't, I am on a private emulated server....I just missed the nostalgia of EQ that much, graphics come last to me unlike every new mmo player these days.

 Well, I am an old mmo player and graphics/sound extremely important to me, so to each his own I guess.  My standards have been raised as the technology as improved over the last 15 years.  While EQ graphics were immersive in 1999 they now appear paper-dollish and shallow.  Also, requiring 2 minutes of auto-attack and spamming kick and bash to kill 1 level 2 rat just doesn't cut it for me anymore. 

There is alot more to EQ1 then just that, it's the experience which is what the article was talking about when describing vanguard.

Daffid011

Vanguard has quality design choices from huge open world, massive dungeons, distinctive classes, real housing, real boats and the list just goes on and on.  It may lack the quantity of expansions and employees that eq2 has, but it is a superior game design despite the poor performance.

EQ2 has nice visuals and quantity of content, classes and races, but it really lacks in the quality of its execution and design goals.  Even with more years, money and development manpower it is still a subpar game all things considered.

 

Brad may not be able to run a company to save his life, but it is clear he understands game design and players better than those who have been recycling EQ nostalgia for the last 6 years. 

KyngBills

I played and liked both Games for almost a year each...But if I had to choose between the 2 it would be Vanguard all the way...I know this article is not finished, but already a couple areas the author gave a slight edge to EQII (graphics and character models) I prefer Vanguard. I really think it's always going to be one of the biggest shames in MMO history what happened with Vanguard. If it had the financial backing and support EQII did it would be an absolutely amazing game...It's still pretty good, and that's saying something considering it was never really finished...ever...

Phry

always felt that Vanguard was the real EQ2.. but would i play it again.. no.. i did try it and it was just as bad as i remembered, but, at least for me, it wasnt as bad as EQ2.. i do wonder though what would have happened if SOE had given up on EQ2 and concentrated on Vanguard more, but as EQ2 was their own cash cow (XPACS'R'US) i guess that just wasnt on the cards, so instead we have 2 games, neither of which is going anywhere.

JerYnkFan

I am doing the trial now for VG and will be subscribing at the end of the trial.  While I agree some of the animations are a little rough around the edges, visually it's really good.  Not AOC good, but good none the less.  I love that there is more than just adventuring to do.  Crafting and diplomacy are a full feature by themselves and quite honestly I love the no instancing in the game especially after doing Tortage in AOC. 

I tried EQ2 again a couple of months ago, but just couldn't get into it.

I really wish SOE would put just 4 devs on Vanguard for 12 months and see what happens at that point.

Terranah

OP has a horrible sense what constitutes beautiful in terms of graphics.  I think he is either blind or...well...he's just blind.  To say this is one of the most beautiful games out is to stretch credulity beyond the normal limits of our physical universe. 

elocke

I'm sorry but I felt the graphics were probably closer to each other than that, as Vanguard tends to have  much better "feel" to it yet is bogged down by the engine and same with EQ2 pre spell effect nerf.  So I would have given both an 8 on graphics.

 

Character however is the BIGGEST draw to Vanguard for me and CRUSHES EQ2 in terms of sheer starting areas, UNIQUEness in each class wether fully developed or not(matter of opinion on that I think).  I made one of each character when I played VG and not once did I come across a class that made me think of another class.

 

Not so for EQ2.  I made a monk and bruiser...felt the same.  made a conjurer and necro...felt the same.  So on and So on..so for this part EQ2 gets a 1 and Vanguard a 10.  

The rest of the  points I agree with so far.

erictlewis

I am totally surprised that vanguard is still up and running. If anything vanguard needs the free to play treatment not eq2.

To be honest I only know 2 folks who are still playing vanguard.  I know I gave it up a long time ago for many reasons.

There is nothing anybody could say that would make me even compare vanguard to eq2 other than they are both hosted by soe.

I will end this by  saying this.  I would sooner play lotro before I would play vangaurd, and if any of you have ever seen my posts about lotro you know how bad I hate turbine. So that says something.

shadout00

I think for the most part this article is spot on for the most part. Graphics is a highly opinionated topic of course.

As far as EQ-ness...VG ranks either a 9 or a 10 out of 10 on my scale. I have played every MMO to date and VG was the only one that hooked me in that "way" and gave me the nostalgic feeling.

ITPalg

Grammar and content correction police here...

The game world as said is broken and never delivers that sense of fantasy immersion and one of the most outstanding and annoying features is the game’s difficulty.

Less "and"s please, more commas/periods. I also marvel at the comment saying that EQ II is difficult.

Will you role a Dwarf, Gnome, Troll, Froglok, Elf, Dark Elf, Human….the list goes on and on.

I am going to be nice(er) and assume you mean "roleplay".

EverQuest 2’s newbie experience, for me, is almost perfect. The game offers a choice of a beginner isle

You must not have been playing EQ II for the past few months. The (second...everyone misses the original) beginner isle was removed from play when the New Halas expansion came out.

hercules

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Look at Vanguard is best what old school MMO could ofer all rolled in one hugamonguos game.

Unfortunately this game was abandoned after the shaky launch. It literaly has team of 2 developers working on it. Ever since it was taken by SOE.

Which is crazy.

 

EQ2 on other hand is ugly ugly joke. The game is so bad , people are not interested in playing it even as free version.

It was just a frankenstein monster cooked up to combat WOW. In which it laughably failed.

But SOE keeps and keeps investing all its resources in it ...

Crazy. ... But thats SOE

 EQ2 still has more of a healthy population then most paid mmorpg.the free version is to attract new players similar to what lotro did,mind you i agree they did keep way too much restriction on the free version though.

teakbois

The whole 'EQness' thing is a joke. His major complaint about EQ2 was that it was too easy. Yet VG at launch was by no means a remotely difficult game. Leveling in both games is a matter of finding quests or mobs for your level, grinding them, and leveling.

What separated EQ1 from every other game on the market was that leveling solo was remarkably inefficient. VG and EQ2 both fall into the modern style of extreme ease of soloing way to cap.

Telon is in no ways the dangerous world Norrath was. There are no Hill Giants or Griffons roaming around to scare newbies. Death in VG is a minor annoyance.

Vanguard has great dungeon design. Thats perhaps its biggest strength. It sounds like the OP had a great group, but great dungeons do not make it have the 'EQness'. Telon has 1/10th the character Norrath had. It has 1/10th the danger.

Maybe it can warrant a 3/10 while Eq2 gets a 1/10. but neither game has a lot of 'EQness'.

And the bottom line is that if Vanguard were this great game, people would play it despite the little support. Its like how people look at pre-CU SWG with rose colored glasses. Both are Niche games with some likable aspects but not enough to overcoming all that is wrong with them.

SnarlingWolf

I am truly amazed either of these games got a ranking higher then a 5 or 6 in any given category.

 

I've always looked at these two games as examples of how not to make an MMO.

Eveeldour

Currently playing VG and I am having a blast. Finally reached Raid lvl and there is so much to do, to me it does feel like the old school EQ. I have tried to get into EQ2 but like many others it just didnt grab me like VG does. 2cents.

dragonbrand

I am subbed to both and find VG to be a better game in all aspects. Better, non-repetitive classes. Better graphics and visuals. Better dungeons. Better world with more immersion. Definitely not zoned. Better starting area(s). Not sure how EQII is winning any of these categories, unless you are counting number of develoeprs. EQII's visuals and graphics fall somewhere between the cartoon-nature of WOW and realism of Vanguard.