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We all want a WoW Killer, But is it WOW that it will really Kill, or the Genre itself?

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  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    And for everyone that likes WoW's low poly cartoon graphics, theres more that hate it. They DID make it accesible to low end computers though. 

    No there is not. Not as many people care about graphics as you like to think.

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • KaocanKaocan Member UncommonPosts: 1,270

    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    And for everyone that likes WoW's low poly cartoon graphics, theres more that hate it. They DID make it accesible to low end computers though. 

    No there is not. Not as many people care about graphics as you like to think.

     I believe that statement was correct, I do hate the low poly cartoon graphics of WoW. I did in BETA, and I did for the next 4+ years I played that game. Just because I hate it, doesn't mean I didnt play it, but I still hate thier low poly cartoon graphics. Oh and not as many people think like you believe they do either, Out of the 30+ Real life friends I play my games with, I'ld venture to say about 2/3rds of them actually dont like WoW's cartoon graphics. Which makes that true from my perspective, and without assumption.

    (DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  • apocolusterapocoluster Member UncommonPosts: 1,326
    WOW gave me erectile dysfunction. I want WOW to fail so I can have erections again.....damn you WOW. :)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    We all want a WoW Killer, but is it WOW that it will really kill, or the genre itself?

    Sorry but speak for yourself, I am a gamer and don't need one game to be killed, I want more games to satisfied the needs of the gaming community so each person can find the right game to enjoy.



    I see it daily on these forums, people asking for a so called "WoW KILLER", but time after time, it seems more new MMORPGs flop and fail to come anywhere close to those expected levels.

    I already tried and played plenty of MMORPG that I personaly felt where much better then WoW, which is personal obviously, but do agree we keep seeing people most likely new to this genre that for some reason want this WoW killer type of game.



    The majority see this "WoW Killer" as a game that would reduce WoW sub count, and have higher sub numbers than WoW itself.

    Agree, atleast in the way I feel the majority see's it.



    But in realty, would it really be WoW that this "WoW Killer" would kill, or would it really be the Genre and most of the smaller populated MMO?

    In that sense it would definitly not kill this genre.



    Just think about it. WoW is the top MMORPG in the world right now. If something came out that was better than WoW, well wouldnt WoW just simply slip into 2nd place?

    Most likely yes



    But what would happen to all the 3rd place and 4place, etc of other MMORPGs in the genre? If anything, Wouldnt a WoW Killer, basically Kill all Non WoW games as well?

    Nope, I mean have you actually seen the list of MMORPG's?



    Also I seen the argument, that the reason people want a WoW killer, would be to simply stop the WoW clones in the genre.

    WoW clones have little to do with the games called WoW Clones, it's more the limited perception people have towards games. Now there are some games that do come close to mimic World of Warcraft, but since I aint into World of Warcraft those games don't really intrest me.



    But WoW is only 6years old, yet after all of its popularity it managed to cause a mass amounts of clones, in a similar way Everquest once did with (DAoC and WoW).

    Hard for me to say, regardless that I have played/tested/tried many MMORPG I never seen a WoW-Clone.



    But with a new WoW Killer, wouldnt it be only be a short time before that new game would be cloned to death like WoW was? Then we would run into the same problem we currently are in with the WoW clone trend.

    See answer above



    And with the other lesser MMORPGs dead, this WoW killer would be an apocalypse on the MMORPG genre.

    Don't think that ever will happen, in fact in the way you state it it might even be good for this genre



    Now with Blizzcon on the way, what if Blizzard's new MMORPG turned out to be this "WOW KILLER?"

    I am really curious (do not cunfuse curious with excited) what it will be, I mean with all the money they make it has to be something truly grand. And hopefully something completely different. Although Blizzards track record does show they more of a perfect what works kinda of developing house.

    But regardles what it will be WoW most likely will continue, plenty of people keep their game that they have lots of time invested in playmode.

     

  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251

    I, for one, don't want a "WoW killer" so much as I'd like the MMO genre's audience to grow to the point that other games can be equally successful without necessarily detracting from it.  That's when we'll know the genre is truly healthy.  In the meantime, WoW's success is only making that goal more likely by drawing new entries into the mmo development ring.  If there was such a thing as a "WoW killer" and every person subbing to WoW switched to another game - the genre itself would only slightly change (assuming that game was not made by Blizzard as well).

  • SonikFlashSonikFlash Member UncommonPosts: 561

    <--- Does not particularly want a wow killer


  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    Originally posted by Kaocan

    Originally posted by Snaylor47


    And for everyone that likes WoW's low poly cartoon graphics, theres more that hate it. They DID make it accesible to low end computers though. 

    No there is not. Not as many people care about graphics as you like to think.

     I believe that statement was correct, I do hate the low poly cartoon graphics of WoW. I did in BETA, and I did for the next 4+ years I played that game. Just because I hate it, doesn't mean I didnt play it, but I still hate thier low poly cartoon graphics. Oh and not as many people think like you believe they do either, Out of the 30+ Real life friends I play my games with, I'ld venture to say about 2/3rds of them actually dont like WoW's cartoon graphics. Which makes that true from my perspective, and without assumption.

    No its not about liking the graphics its about not caring. I play heroes of might and magic 3 not because of the graphics but the game itself.

     

    I have never heard any of my gaming friends ever say. "Wow this game is really fun.... But I won't play it because of the graphics". Even your proof of this. 

     

    WoW (and I guess WAR and SWTOR to a lesser extent.) are not going for realism as say GW and EvE. If you ever study art (starting to study game design here.) You'll find out that WoW's graphics for what it is trying do is some what nice. It also runs on old computer so that means more customers, and more money.

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387

    Originally posted by endersshadow

    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    I don't want a WoW killer, I just want WoW to quit dominating the genre so thoroughly that game publishers insist on copying everything it does and that I'm tired of, rather than trying new and unique gameplay and game design.

    I agree.

     

    But heres the rub, until game designers try building a mmo with unique gameplay and game design, WoW will dominate the genre. 

    Warhammer wasnt Unique?

    AoC wasnt Unique?

    Everquest 2 wasnt Unique?

    Eve wasnt Unique?

    MO wasnt Unique?

    Darkfall wasnt Unique?

     

    where have you been?

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • blutm8blutm8 Member UncommonPosts: 86

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by endersshadow


    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    I don't want a WoW killer, I just want WoW to quit dominating the genre so thoroughly that game publishers insist on copying everything it does and that I'm tired of, rather than trying new and unique gameplay and game design.

    I agree.

     

    But heres the rub, until game designers try building a mmo with unique gameplay and game design, WoW will dominate the genre. 

    Warhammer wasnt Unique?

    AoC wasnt Unique?

    Everquest 2 wasnt Unique?

    Eve wasnt Unique?

    MO wasnt Unique?

    Darkfall wasnt Unique?

     

    where have you been?

     

    and WoW isnt really a unique game design. it is just a copy of several other mmo's that exists befor. the unique thing is the world and the story and the talent system.. but its not wow that made the genre / game so popular, it was warcaft. because warcraft 3 was a really good game and was played a lot. than blizzard anounced wow and everyone wanted to play warcraft...

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387

    Originally posted by blutm8

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by endersshadow


    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    I don't want a WoW killer, I just want WoW to quit dominating the genre so thoroughly that game publishers insist on copying everything it does and that I'm tired of, rather than trying new and unique gameplay and game design.

    I agree.

     

    But heres the rub, until game designers try building a mmo with unique gameplay and game design, WoW will dominate the genre. 

    Warhammer wasnt Unique?

    AoC wasnt Unique?

    Everquest 2 wasnt Unique?

    Eve wasnt Unique?

    MO wasnt Unique?

    Darkfall wasnt Unique?

     

    where have you been?

     

    and WoW isnt really a unique game design. it is just a copy of several other mmo's that exists befor. the unique thing is the world and the story and the talent system.. but its not wow that made the genre / game so popular, it was warcaft. because warcraft 3 was a really good game and was played a lot. than blizzard anounced wow and everyone wanted to play warcraft...

    By that logic,

    STO

    Warhammer

    SWG

     

    should have all had that same effect.

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    We all want a WoW Killer, but is it WOW that it will really kill, or the genre itself?

    Btw, who is this "we" you're talking about?

    From your posts I didn't get the impression you were really looking for a WoW killer, you usually sound pretty comfortable with WoW and its gameplay mechanics and don't have much care for the new upcoming MMO's.

    But I could've misunderstood it.

     

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • orlacorlac Member Posts: 549

    What you mean...we?

  • LerchplusLerchplus Member Posts: 6

    Exposed sparked a good discussion here i think.

    What seem to me to be the most prevalent responses were:

    "I don't want a wow killer, i just want good games to play"

    Hear, hear!

    Are you listening Gaming Industry?

    Much Respect,

    Lerch

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223




    WoW made MMORPGs accessible to more players, simplified the UI, made the game visually appealing to a wider audience and made the overall play friendlier.   When they did it, they weren't as huge as they are now and didn't have near the budget. You may not like WoW, but I feel it's partly the reason so many MMOs exist today, why websites like mmorpg.com and massively.com exist, etc.. Without that giant elephant in the room, the industry would be very, very different...


     


    As for there being a "WoW killer", it's close to impossible.  Why?  Because so many players have so much time and money "invested" in playing WoW, that unless a new game is so good, polished and complete from launch, WoW players will simply migrate back to WoW because it's easier and more comfortable.  Why level up a new character in a game that has issues at launch  and is very much like WoW in many aspects (WAR, for example) when you already have a level 80 in WoW and there's a new expansion coming out?  In order for any new game to kill WoW, it'll have to be perfect at launch.

    By the way, mmorpg.com existed and was popular before WoW was released.

    Overall, I think WoW's success is mainly due to Blizzard's previous success with the WC, SC and Diablo series rather than any particular game element. A lot of people didn't understand MMOs before, partly because RPGs aren't a very popular game genre in comparison to things like the Sims, FPSes, and RTSes.I think it also has to do with availability of high speed internet access, with the early 2000s still seeing most people without access to broadband. A lot of people used to be put off by the idea of online games, even as recently as about 2003/2004. I think WoW was a bit of 'right place, right time' rather than that it has amazing game elements that no other MMO had before it. In the three examples you gave, I can think of previous MMOs doing things better (entirely my opinion of course), for example, I like DAoC's death penalty system over WoW's. I think it balances 'punishment' and 'being overly annoying' just perfectly, whereas WoW's is too light.

    It's true that Blizzard is ace at making pretty-to-look-at games with lots of eye-catching bling and great character animations, spell effects, etc., but they don't always produce the games with the most interesting story elements or funnest game mechanics.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image

  • Originally posted by Lerchplus

    Exposed sparked a good discussion here i think.

    What seem to me to be the most prevalent responses were:

    "I don't want a wow killer, i just want good games to play"

    Hear, hear!

    Are you listening Gaming Industry?

    Much Respect,

    Lerch

    Good work sherlock! Now I don't think you can get answers from one post. I also don't think that this rantunity (ranting community) gives a reliable outcome of a hypothesis. man i need more coffee im starting to give way to trolling lol.

  • kaliniskalinis Member Posts: 1,428

    I guess u can put me in the i dont understand all the wow hate. Im sorry i have alot of fun playing wow weather its leveling a character or raiding. Im not a pvp guy but maybe i just got ganked on pvp server leveling a guy one to many times. That said i dont want a wow killer.

    I love wow im hoping swtor is a good game cause id love to play a star wars mmorpg that was fun and enjoyable. Im hoping i like to play it because the idea of being  a sith or jedi appeal to me. I have tried other mmos like guidl wars and ddo online and a few other f 2play ones.

    In my opinion wow does it better then all of them thats why its number 1 not because it was right place right time. I dont mind the grind in wow. I dont get bored doing quests in wow i have in other games.

  • stamps79stamps79 Member Posts: 233

    Blizzard is an amazing company, bringing us a great gaming experience one after the other.

    With WOW, which wasn't perfect at the beginning, but a few patches and tweaks here and there, it was pretty exciting, something really fresh for ppl in the 2004, this was going to be the game from patches to expansions brought us some much enjoyment, we knew we were playing something bigger then we could of ever thought of, a MMO that would capture us in it's world.

    Blizzard in my book has amazed me, with what they did with WOW and I have played a large share of MMO's and I did at a time compare them to WOW and see if they matched up to what I was already enjoying.

    I think the only thing that will kill WOW is Blizzard, which I think when they released SC2 was the only thing that probably dinged them on active users, I too have put away some WOW time to enjoy SC2 through out the week.

     

    Some Upcoming MMO's that will go against the juggernaut :GW2, Star Wars TOR, DC Online, TERA and Rift

     

    GW2 is the one that looks to bring something new to the playing field,  realtime changing of events and battles that effect what's going on the world, also removing paid subscriptions is something great to hear, but with no monthly sub fee's will this hurt the game of future patch and updates, I think this is the only worry I could see.

    Star Wars TOR is going to bring story telling from Bioware, just hearing that makes me feel good inside and having a game fully voiced, a big plus as well. Story is really big for me and I do believe this game is going to have something massive when it launches and soaks up the gaming world.

    DC Online, the superhero game that calls to me, City of Heroes/Villians, COH...just didn't do it for me, but DC Online looks to fix that void and bring a fresh and exciting comic filled world to life and I will be keeping and eye on this one. The game also having PS3/PC gameplay options and the use of a gamepad for gameplay, makes it even more exciting to want to play.

    TERA  what I think about this game is, that fighting will require more strategy when fighting your oponnents which I think is great and fresh. This game has beauty and great animations, but I'm really wanting to see how the story and quest fall into place, because these are what I want to see the most.

    Rift. well can't say this game really get's me too excited...,because it seems to use a lot of the same MMO layout from most MMO's out these days and that's not what I"m looking for in a game, I believe the lore of the game looks great, but is it enough.

    All 5 of these new games bring something new, something different or a lot of the same you've already played or are playing.

     

    A WOW Killer, that's a job for Blizzard and I do not see them plan on killing something so amazing, something that has changed the MMO world.  When they release there next MMO in the next few years, I can see fans playing both WOW and there upcoming Masterpiece.

    Wildstar (2013) & Elder Scroll Online (2013)

    Playing: Diablo 3, WOW, Far Cry 3 & X-Com.

    Enjoyed: WOW 5 1/2 yrs, LOTRO 3yrs, GW 1/2yr, DFO 1yr, EVE Online 3yrs, and Huxley (Beta).

    Failed to impress: GW2 3months, Tera Online 6 months (best combat system in any MMO I've played) STO 1/4yr, Aion 1/2yr, AoC 1yr, CO, Fallen Earth, DDO, EQ2 1/2yr, WAR 1/2yr, Lineage 2 and FF XI 1/2yr, FF XIV.


  • Originally posted by stamps79

    Blizzard is an amazing company, bringing us a great gaming experience one after the other.

     

    they are in many ways...but i believe that addiction marketing is a part of their success...:(

  • uquipuuquipu Member Posts: 1,516

    SWTOR with almost 3 times the budget of WoW and a studio that's known for making RPG hits has the best chance of taking away some of WoW's subs. I would think for a time at least.
    .
    If any game were to do serious harm to WoW, it would be a very awesome game indeed. We all would want to play it.
    .
    And you people would call it a WoW clone and refuse to play it.

    Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  • SonikFlashSonikFlash Member UncommonPosts: 561

    I'd rather have wow2 in the makes than a lot of games because i know I could expect popularity and longevity.  


  • DancerDancer Member Posts: 102

    I think the words " We all want a WoW Killer" in this question are harsh. It implies that none of us enjoy or like WoW which, according to their player base numbers is not accurate.  It's phrasing seems to suggest the OP doesn't like WoW him or her self and really wants WoW to fall. If this is incorrect I apologize. 

    I don't see the genre ever becoming less popular. If anything, more so. With the huge strides in technology and one day maybe being able to play in a holodeck type reality. How awesome would that be.


  • Originally posted by Dancer

     It's phrasing seems to suggest the OP doesn't like WoW him or her self and really wants WoW to fall. If this is incorrect I apologize. 

     

    dont apologize but, if Blizzard indeed involves addiction marketing then wouldn't that change perspectives to a whole new level? Isn't that what all the rants on mmorpg.com are about in the end? They all talk about gameplay. Many talk about "the grind". Outside gaming you never see such rants on details that should be minor, such as interface, graphics and all these things. To be honest i just think that if people are happy with what they do they dont come here to post about it mostly :P.

  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207

    Originally posted by uquipu

    SWTOR with almost 3 times the budget of WoW and a studio that's known for making RPG hits has the best chance of taking away some of WoW's subs. I would think for a time at least.

     

     

    I seriously doubt it. Most of the people i know that play WoW don't have the patience to sit through a voice acted cutscene. I've had this talk with some of the younger kids on my vent and they all echo the same sentiment, "can i skip all this talking and get my loot please?"

     

    I'm also disgusted by the fact that some of them have never even seen the original trilogy, which i think contribtes to the IP not being as popular with the younger growd and will hinder sales.

  • ZoulzZoulz Member Posts: 477

    Originally posted by MurlockDance

    It's true that Blizzard is ace at making pretty-to-look-at games with lots of eye-catching bling and great character animations, spell effects, etc., but they don't always produce the games with the most interesting story elements or funnest game mechanics.

    I see it the other way around. Maybe not always the most visually stunning games, but above all fun to play. Blizzard always puts gameplay first. It's even one of their internal development mantras.

  • DancerDancer Member Posts: 102

    Yes, I do agree that is the rant and if Blizzard does and even can apply that form of marketing then that is a totally different subject. The very essence of marketing is to try to appeal to the greatest demographics. If what you suggest is possible wouldn't Blizzard imply the same marketing ability with their other titles? 

    I don't know what it is about WoW that draws so any. I myself really enjoy the game. My daughter in law who is a practicing psychologist and I have had long conversations about this very subject. There is some psyc term I can't remember for what she thinks is going on with the game.. like a mass hysteria but very toned down.. sorry the term escapes me ATM. It's goes on simply because it is going on. 

    Now, the fact that Blizzard is capitalizing on this, if it is in fact happening, then they hit the the business lotto so to speak for making money is what one goes into business for.  They certainly are not a non profitable organization. 

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