Well, I am getting really tired of doing the same old thing as I did in Meridian 59 still, that was almost 15 years ago and still it was basically the same thing.
But I do have hopes for GW2 and WoDO, and maybe even TERA, anything that is a little different.
I am trying to get back into pen and paper games instead but my constant nightshift makes getting the gang together a nightmare.
I been on a break for 2 months now, I will start again as soon as I feel for it or when GW2 launches, whichever that comes first.
Eh I take it on and off. About like my obsession with animating gifs, to playing chess, to reading all the books I can get ahold of by an author I like.
I'd have been with you on this, but City of Heroes: Going Rogue has kept me entertained for 8 days or so now. That's an exhaustive amount of time for me personally in the genre lately.
The genre isn't anywhere near dying tho'. It's just a video game. Genres blow up and simmer down all the time. I thought with Doom 3 FPS were done for a bit. Then came along.. Everything else.
A little ebb and flow. You'll notice it in everything.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
This upcoming year will tell us how the genre will go. I am not currently playing any MMO's as of now and my last stint ended poorly (about 9 months ago I quit that game after playing for 2 months). I am playing some LoL and SC2 to give me my fixation of online play every now and then. If these games don't pan out in the next year, I will probably be done for quite a bit in the genre.
If everyone knew this then pretty much most everyone wouldn't be playing.
What is happening is that the genre is taking a turn that isn't very welcome from a certain demographic.
I think it is more of a dip, the era of Wow is fading but no new game has come yet to take over. It will happen pretty soon and things will get back to normal.
There have actually been stagnation of how many players the games have the last 2 years or so but I am sure that the curve will start to point upwards again as soon as a new good game is out.
My guess is that next autumn the genre should start to recover.
If everyone knew this then pretty much most everyone wouldn't be playing.
What is happening is that the genre is taking a turn that isn't very welcome from a certain demographic.
I think it is more of a dip, the era of Wow is fading but no new game has come yet to take over. It will happen pretty soon and things will get back to normal.
There have actually been stagnation of how many players the games have the last 2 years or so but I am sure that the curve will start to point upwards again as soon as a new good game is out.
My guess is that next autumn the genre should start to recover.
I think part of it is just the delivery schedule and part of it is that developers really do see that they either need to deliver a very polished product or not deliver at all.
MMO's seem to have a more, to coin/use a term, Geologic Pacing to their development. Not quite apt but it's like when you hear a geologist talk about "young" and he's talking about 1 million years.
MMO's just take a long time to develop. And the risks are high.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If everyone knew this then pretty much most everyone wouldn't be playing.
What is happening is that the genre is taking a turn that isn't very welcome from a certain demographic.
I think it is more of a dip, the era of Wow is fading but no new game has come yet to take over. It will happen pretty soon and things will get back to normal.
There have actually been stagnation of how many players the games have the last 2 years or so but I am sure that the curve will start to point upwards again as soon as a new good game is out.
My guess is that next autumn the genre should start to recover.
I think part of it is just the delivery schedule and part of it is that developers really do see that they either need to deliver a very polished product or not deliver at all.
MMO's seem to have a more, to coin/use a term, Geologic Pacing to their development. Not quite apt but it's like when you hear a geologist talk about "young" and he's talking about 1 million years.
MMO's just take a long time to develop. And the risks are high.
Good points.
For a MMO to be successful, even remotely in comparative terms, now a days they need to deilver on par with the polish and a big chunk of content to games that have already been established.
I saw quite a few new people get drawn in to AoC or Vanguard, like it enough since it's their first experience, and then join the desolate few who ride the revolving door through a bunch of other titles.
It's actually a wise move to not rush in on the market like many others have tried. The era of "you guys just wait for what we have in store for you, psst we need your 14.99 a month now to get there" is gone.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Ever since I got broadband I've been a fan of the MMORPG genre. I started with Legend Of Mir (which I played more than most newer MMOs), Runescape, Dark Age Of Camelot, and all the major MMO's after that.
Everyone knows the MMO market is going downhill fast, if not crashing completely. Personally I think the F2P model is destroying the genre alltogether, it's turning dedicated players into casual players which poisons the very core of the MMORPG gamestyle.
Over a period of months of not years I've drifted from one MMO to the next (mostly F2P), but nothing could get me hooked like the early MMO's (which are now as old as dinosaurs in computeryears), Question is, is it worth getting into at this time, years after release?
Basically I gave up on it and I find myself to have way more fun in the upcoming co-op shooter genre (L4D2, Worms reloaded,...).
Has anyone else been through these hoops ?
People make the mistake of thinking that because they personally are bored/tired of a form of entertainment then everyone else is too.
MMOs have more players across all the games out there now then they did a few years ago, which is the opposite of going downhill fast. The issue is that the users who come to this site have a significant amount of old school MMO players who don't like the new school MMOs, I happen to be one of them myself. But this does not mean all the MMO players don't like new MMOs, plenty of them love it and the numbers keep growing.
The MMO makers just forgot about the player base that likes the challenging, long time to max, exploration not rails, death penalty, etc. No major company is making a game to tap into that market, the reason being that market isn't as profitable. That market doesn't want to spend $15 on a sparkling mount, or have a game based around an item shop. That market is the "I only spend $15 a month on an MMO but I am loyal for far longer then the burst players who spend $100 in a month and quit in two months." The issue is the loyalty doesn't matter anymore because companies want the money now. So they are focusing on casual games with extra things that players can blow their money on.
The MMO market as a whole is doing fine and new players keep showing up every day, it is just headed in a much much different direction then it originated in so all the old school players are starting to quit and move on and make sure that they are vocal about it. On a site like this you see so much of that it is easy to think that is the stance of the whole MMO market but it isn't even close.
I'm probably not the best source of information to your question, because I'm still playing one of the first MMOs I tried -- UO.
I've tried others, but nothing comes close to my experience with UO, even with all the bumps and bruises it's had over the years.
Part of the issue I see is that people MMO-hop too much. One little thing they don't like about a game and off to the next one. Its like they are looking for perfection, which simply doesn't exist. I decided a long time ago that I was going to stick it out in the game I love and pretty much ignore what people have to say and play my game. I have to admit, I've always had fun each and every time I log into UO. I don't feel like I missed a thing.
The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence, but it doesn't matter if you pay attention to what's happening on YOUR side of the fence.
I'll look for another MMO when UO closes its doors for good. Hopefully that won't be for a long time.
For the time being I am done lol, been finding it harder and harder to stick with an mmo for any length of time (hour here, an hour there, then i'm bored of it all once again).
Been going back to 10+ year old single player games i've never gotten around to finishing, playing them from start to finish and it's been a heck of a lot more enjoyable, honestly been the most fun i've had gaming in probably just as many years too.
Finally completed FF8 this morning lol, and wow it was so short (only 22 confused hours) can't believe I never finished it before haha, and that ending.. was way too Disney, that shock alone made it worth it if only just for the laughs! FF9 is next, then maybe X2 if i'm not too burnt out of the FF genre lol. Got sooo many other options it's not even funny, may even dig out the N64.
The past few weeks really makes me wonder why i've been wasting so many hours/years with the overly repetive mmo's out there ~
Old school-hardly played-single player games ftw!!
For the time being I am done lol, been finding it harder and harder to stick with an mmo for any length of time (hour here, an hour there, then i'm bored of it all once again).
Been going back to 10+ year old single player games i've never gotten around to finishing, playing them from start to finish and it's been a heck of a lot more enjoyable, honestly been the most fun i've had gaming in probably just as many years too.
Finally completed FF8 this morning lol, and wow it was so short (only 22 confused hours) can't believe I never finished it before haha, and that ending.. was way too Disney, that shock alone made it worth it if only just for the laughs! FF9 is next, then maybe X2 if i'm not too burnt out of the FF genre lol. Got sooo many other options it's not even funny, may even dig out the N64.
The past few weeks really makes me wonder why i've been wasting so many hours/years with the overly repetive mmo's out there ~
Old school-hardly played-single player games ftw!!
Two of my favorites were Wizardry and Bard's Tale on the Apple II. I still play both series occasionally (using an emulator ) and they are still really fun to play. FTW indeed.
Im not done with MMORPG's at all. I still play my first one off and on. Ive went rounds with WoW and played almost all f2p mmo's.
My favorites are usually P2P. Because the communitys are better. Period. Which is kinda why me and alot of others are worried about LOTRO. But we'll see what happens there.
The best part of an mmo for me? The mmo part. Playing with friends, either made in game or out, is awesome. And putting time into a character and watching it grow and become powerfull is awesome. PvP is awesome. I can count the ways, but most of us visiting this site already know why they like their mmos.
Im always looking for a new mmo, a company thats doing something better. They might even get a few of my dollars. But i always end up going back to the ones that made it work. I remember the feature that drew me to World of Warcraft. Seemless zones? AMAZING! I couldnt wait to run around and explore without loading screens. And its STILL a feature i wonder why more mmo's dont utilize. But I digress.
With me and most mmo players, we might take a week off. Maybe a month. Maybe a year. But every time we hear about a new mmo developing we get that itch. We start following it, then guess what? We play it. Make our decision and either stick with it till the next one, or go back to the ones we already love for our own reason.
But simply, we wanna play with other people. I want someone to look at my equipment and say, wow, where'd ya get that. Then i can tell them the story behind it. I can whisper someone and say, " Hey!, Remember running ony with our old guild? Well were trying to get a group together to run it just for the hell of it. Wanna come?" and have someone say," Hell yea i was tired of grinding mine nodes! Lets go!."
I cant do that with every game. Which is why i like my mmos. And why other people like they're mmos. And why we'll be having conversations like this in the future........
I finally found a game worth my time again. Perpetuum online beta, which can best be described as a space game very similar to Eve.
Apart from that i am playing Distant worlds, a single player game also situated in space. Quite refreshing from all the elves and dwarves i killed over times.
My best two MMO's in the past 15 or so years are UO and Daoc.
Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained. Played: almost all MMO pre 2007
i'm taking a break from them. i'll try some of the new MMO's coming up but i doubt i'll play any of them for very long. i played runescape for 6 years and loved it, can't find anything that compares. it was like a mix of sandbox and themepark. i only quit because it got to themeparkish, and that game made a terrible themepark MMO. also life's getting pretty busy now, spending hours at the computer playing games isn't something i can do anymore....sadly.
I've always said that as long as I'm enjoying myself, I have no issue paying for the game/service. I simply cannot play single player games any longer. I just feel like, what's the point? It can be enjoyable, but without friends to enjoy it with or people to show off you new items and whatnot, it's just not as fun to me.
I will be playing mmo's as long as I'm pc gaming and hopefully for the consoles..... as soon as they make a descent one...lol
This^
SNIP... then see the next cycle of MMO's start experimenting with the remaining niche of MMO players looking for SANDBOX style games and closer-knit communities. That would be some gaming that I would not just not regret, but actively build some great memories.
This ^ The problem is the games that have been coming out are not true to the MMORPG definition. They simply have forgotten or chose to not include the "R" part of the defintion, mmoROLEpg. We need games with communities, where your actions have consequences, not this on a rail noise. Yes it is possible, see the early games, DAOC, EQ - it is just not nostolgia that have most people sad at the state of things, those games actually created communities that made them so great.
Seriously stop with the 1 player theme park games. Give us a sandbox and let us run with it, you know, actually allow us to have a ROLE in the game.
I was bored of the same routine mmo had so I took a break and played many single player games like rpgs (many), action adventure and shooters.
I am enjoying them a lot (still have like 5 or more games to try but need to beat the ones installed first) but after a while you will miss that feeling were the chat bar is filled with nonsense, people running around, friends, grouping and eventually you will find some mmo that you think it's good and don't feel like your doing same thing again and again but it's like your playing your first one (feeling wise)
This is something that really happened to me and I'm again without an mmo because stupid devs taking years to update game and been at cap for more then a month with nothing more to do unless I craft which is not my thing (Neo online)
The genre has not died it's just that few have tried doing new things and either they didn't go well, company is greedy or not popular.
So go take a break and go play some games that you will enjoy there's a whole list of games you can try I'm sure you can find some you would play and spend some weeks or more playing those.
Everyone knows the MMO market is going downhill fast, if not crashing completely.
?
Who is this everyone? I don't agree with this statement at all. Matter of fact, I think the MMORPG genre is about to have the doors blasted open with titles like FFXIV, GW2, SWTOR and Rift about to descend upon us. They are offering to me what I've been craving but haven't been getting since WoW launched, which is understandable. Quality games take a good 5+ years to develop, and that's about how long it's been since, IMHO, the last "good" MMO launched.
Perhaps you are just tainted by your nostalgia of how the games you played before were. It's ok, many people are afraid of change. You can change too. Adapt, go with the flow and you will be surprised at yourself.
It all really boils down to "Perception".
No it boils down to real gameplay , something that has not really been present in recent years. Their is a big difference between how you view something and the reality that the game uses 1% or 75% of your focus and intelect.
Most current MMOs are not MMORPGs anymore have no comunity and have been turned into nothing more than whack a mole...
I have recently started replaying some games over 10 years old and gameplay wise its all their. Other than a couple of current MMOs that have something about them most these days are tired and lazily developed.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I dont think MMO's are dying, far from it, but we are getting older...Been there, done it, got the T-shirt etc etc...As mention earlier the developers are going for the money now, and it shows in the MMO's on the market.
Before i was a hardcore gamer, it was just so much more fun than beeing the casual one im now.Kids,job, wife, dog takes priority now...no regrets though .
Im looking for FFA PvP games to play, but i really cant compete in them, because it takes time and dedication to be on top.When it comes to playing single player games, either shooters or strategy, sadly it only holds my attention for a short time.Ive found i need that feeling of a "living" world to be satisfied with gaming.
What im trying to say is that its possible to have fun gaming, but not for everyone
Right now im not guilded, but i think im going to TRY find a guild with PVP oriented oldtimers in SWTOR or GW2 to see if i can get back some of that old magic.
I started out in Asherons Call 1 Darktide pvp servers, so thats my nostalgia game, but i loved Shadowbane as well.Now AC1 is dead and SB isnt running anymore.... good times that really cant come back.I think all of us oldtimer just needs to reset the hardisk and stop beeing nostalgic in the future, try finding other oldtimers to play with is my advice, ive found i cant hang with the kids on ventrilo, it has to be adults ^^
Anyway, im not done...just frustrated, like many others that have played a long time.
Favorite Games Played :Asherons Call Darktide - Shadowbane - DaOC PvP
I have been playing mmos for over 3 years now. My first mom was runescape and to be quite honest nothing beats your first mmo. Runescape will probably end my mmo phase as well. There are no more good f2p mmos out there anymore. They either died or were ruined by cash shop.
I've thought a lot about this. I'm not currently playing any MMORPGs or computer games at all right now.
It isn't that the games coming out are bad, they just aren't for me.
Risks in creating an MMORPG are high (as others have stated), but also a time factor is at play: the investors want a return and they want it NOW!
See, when a producer goes out to gather capital for a game or one of the "visionaries" states what he/she wants to do, there is a lot of glowy-feel good and greed going around. I can imagine the STO crew going: "WE GOT STAR TREK! It CAN'T LOSE!" and "WE CAN MAKE A GAME SUPER-FAST! YOU'LL GET WOW MONEY TOMORROW!" (Sorry for the shouts, but that's how I see it.) Then they vomit out STO. I can't really in good conscience call it a "game" unless we want to speak of children playing with a cinderblock a game.
The genre did change since we were younger (if you're an older gamer). Games don't have the same frustration level because gamers have evolved. Game developers are simply looking at what worked.
For example: UO and EQ had a high frustration factor. Neither game was "hard", they were just really frustrating because getting whacked had concequences. (In EQ you had corpse runs that could take a long while and you lost experience and you could de-level. In UO you lost massive stats (in the beginning) and lost everything you owned and got trashtalked.)
Eve still retains some of this flavor, but I don't play it because of cheating and forced-corp junk that dominates the later game. Plus I find the game itself to be rather boring. I think many of the "older" gamers play Eve.
WoW won the MMORPG internets prize because it was frustration free. I mean, a 3 year old could be set up with a 10 key keyboard and eventually make it to max level as long as someone was there to equip him. There isn't any way to lose.
I could go on about the psychology of that, but I don't wana type it and you probably either know it and/or don't want to hear it.
Like much of society, these "new" games are mostly flash with no substance. Some, like CO, fail abjectly at both.
Like a lot of you, I've played most of these games. I hate the "F2P" (it isn't anything close to free) movement and probably won't be playing any game that incorporates this model. They're trading development time and expense for an even cheaper experience and charging you more for it.
DDO doesn't count because they started out as a pay model (and I played it) and they've made back their money now. Since subscriptions were down and DDO works best as a "play as you want" game, they did the sensible thing and decided on F2P. But they really aren't F2P as they were a fully developed game that switched later in life.
The new crop of games coming out disappoint me before they're even released. Star Wars is going to suck. Badly. If they continue with what I saw of their combat model. If my trooper is blasting stuff in the face with my rifle as I'm standing toe to toe ... or a jedi is standing there whacking a "goblin" in the face 50 times with a light saber, I won't bother to play it. EQ with another skin doesn't interest me. The fact that they have a tank (trooper), cleric (counselor), thief (smuggler/bounty hunter), and wizard (jedi) turns me right off.
I was playing Free Realms for a while, and it was a fun game I could pick up and had a bunch of different things I could do. However, first they paired down the "free" portion to "extremely crippled" and then to "don't bother". Then they began to pester the everlasting shit out of you to buy stuff. (Like making the buy button sparkle constantly without a way to turn it off or flashing it on and off. Then, finally, whenever you logged in or out they would say "Hey! You got moniez in yer wallet! Buy shit NaWoZ!" I just gave up, even though I subscribed for a while. It just wasn't worth it.
So, I guess in summary, none of the current games appeal to me because:
They suck.
I've played them until they are boring. This threshold is getting shorter and shorter as time goes on.
They are a flat rip-off that offends me.
They aren't exciting enough for me to play through the free beta week (or days). CO and STO fell into this.
I don't have the free time I used to in playing these games.
And one or more of the above.
Right now, any free gaming time I have has been spent on 4x games.
were did you get your info that the mmo world is crashing. I have no interestin quiting them, if you primarly play the crap free ones thats you call, wows not to bad, I still log in if I just want o have fun screw around, my main one is and always has been eve, and I am hopefull for rift and earth rise.
I think I may be done, i'm sure i'll get flamed for this but after playing WoW for 5 years. I haven't found a mmo that can keep my interest for longer than 2 months. Its really just the same thing for any mmo, deep down they are basically all the same. I started my mmo career like 8 years ago with lineage 2 being my first, then of course like many people when WoW came out I switched and played for 5 years. I've tried 8 mmos since I quit WoW and I just generally get bored of them quite easily.
Anyways I do agree with the op.
I should also point out that the same thing pretty much happened with my fps career. I played CS competitively for like 5 years and after that I haven't been able to stick with another fps. I guess when you experience the "best" everything else is compared and falls short.
Ever since I got broadband I've been a fan of the MMORPG genre. I started with Legend Of Mir (which I played more than most newer MMOs), Runescape, Dark Age Of Camelot, and all the major MMO's after that.
Everyone knows the MMO market is going downhill fast, if not crashing completely. Personally I think the F2P model is destroying the genre alltogether, it's turning dedicated players into casual players which poisons the very core of the MMORPG gamestyle.
Over a period of months of not years I've drifted from one MMO to the next (mostly F2P), but nothing could get me hooked like the early MMO's (which are now as old as dinosaurs in computeryears), Question is, is it worth getting into at this time, years after release?
Basically I gave up on it and I find myself to have way more fun in the upcoming co-op shooter genre (L4D2, Worms reloaded,...).
Has anyone else been through these hoops ?
u gotta admit tho... legend of mir was an awesome game, except for the big problem the staff caused with not keeping server maintanance. i loved it. i would still play it. i tried the new version but meh crap now starting from scratch and all those changes ugh.
as for the mmorpg genre.. for some reason i cant get into it anymore... i quit wow a while ago and definetly not planning to go back. tried a few other here and there and all i got was bored out of my mind... fps and rts seem to catch my eye lately. hopefully D3 will do it :P
If everyone knew this then pretty much most everyone wouldn't be playing.
What is happening is that the genre is taking a turn that isn't very welcome from a certain demographic.
I think it is more of a dip, the era of Wow is fading but no new game has come yet to take over. It will happen pretty soon and things will get back to normal.
There have actually been stagnation of how many players the games have the last 2 years or so but I am sure that the curve will start to point upwards again as soon as a new good game is out.
My guess is that next autumn the genre should start to recover.
Two points:
No developer is setting out to 'take over' WOW. It's an unrealistic goal.
The number of people playing MMOs has gone up each year.
I tried looking up comparative stats but couldn't find numbers for previous years. However, I came acorss this report:
and it says that US spent 3.8b on MMOs alone last year. Not on games, not on video games, not on online games, but just on MMOs.
That's some crazy cash.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am an older player, but have been playing MMOs since the launch of Everquest I. I have tried to remain optimistic about the MMO genre since then, but the last three years of bug ridden, over-hyped, under-performing MMO launches has really jaded me. I may not be completely 'done' with the MMO scene, but I am getting close. I intend to give Guild Wars 2 a decent try, but I have pretty much quit playing MMOs for the time-being.
Its not so much that I have outgrown them--its the greed of the game companies CEO's and absence of true innovation from the developers that has led to the current sad and lack-luster state of the MMO genre as a whole. (yes, this has been stated here in the forums before). Quality game play, story and decent game mechanics has taken a back-seat to revenue-streams and profit taking; this has become especially apparent with companies like Time Warner/Turbine, Funcom, EA and Cryptic, etc.
I am especially saddened that so many gamers continue to open their pocket books to some of these companies, for this only encourages and supports the current state of affairs. Until we, as MMO gamers, start making a serious vote with our hard-earned money, MMOs will continue to be over-hyped, under-whelming pixellated worlds designed to do little more than nickel and dime our wallets for as little value as 'corporate' thinks they can get away with.
In closing, I will say that if Star Trek Online, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Champions, along with some others (yes, I could go on), is the best these companies can do for the 'new generation of MMOs', then maybe it would be better for the MMO genre, as a whole, to eventually disappear. Pathetic is, I think, the most fitting adjective here.
Comments
Well, I am getting really tired of doing the same old thing as I did in Meridian 59 still, that was almost 15 years ago and still it was basically the same thing.
But I do have hopes for GW2 and WoDO, and maybe even TERA, anything that is a little different.
I am trying to get back into pen and paper games instead but my constant nightshift makes getting the gang together a nightmare.
I been on a break for 2 months now, I will start again as soon as I feel for it or when GW2 launches, whichever that comes first.
Eh I take it on and off. About like my obsession with animating gifs, to playing chess, to reading all the books I can get ahold of by an author I like.
I'd have been with you on this, but City of Heroes: Going Rogue has kept me entertained for 8 days or so now. That's an exhaustive amount of time for me personally in the genre lately.
The genre isn't anywhere near dying tho'. It's just a video game. Genres blow up and simmer down all the time. I thought with Doom 3 FPS were done for a bit. Then came along.. Everything else.
A little ebb and flow. You'll notice it in everything.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
This upcoming year will tell us how the genre will go. I am not currently playing any MMO's as of now and my last stint ended poorly (about 9 months ago I quit that game after playing for 2 months). I am playing some LoL and SC2 to give me my fixation of online play every now and then. If these games don't pan out in the next year, I will probably be done for quite a bit in the genre.
I think it is more of a dip, the era of Wow is fading but no new game has come yet to take over. It will happen pretty soon and things will get back to normal.
There have actually been stagnation of how many players the games have the last 2 years or so but I am sure that the curve will start to point upwards again as soon as a new good game is out.
My guess is that next autumn the genre should start to recover.
I think part of it is just the delivery schedule and part of it is that developers really do see that they either need to deliver a very polished product or not deliver at all.
MMO's seem to have a more, to coin/use a term, Geologic Pacing to their development. Not quite apt but it's like when you hear a geologist talk about "young" and he's talking about 1 million years.
MMO's just take a long time to develop. And the risks are high.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Good points.
For a MMO to be successful, even remotely in comparative terms, now a days they need to deilver on par with the polish and a big chunk of content to games that have already been established.
I saw quite a few new people get drawn in to AoC or Vanguard, like it enough since it's their first experience, and then join the desolate few who ride the revolving door through a bunch of other titles.
It's actually a wise move to not rush in on the market like many others have tried. The era of "you guys just wait for what we have in store for you, psst we need your 14.99 a month now to get there" is gone.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
People make the mistake of thinking that because they personally are bored/tired of a form of entertainment then everyone else is too.
MMOs have more players across all the games out there now then they did a few years ago, which is the opposite of going downhill fast. The issue is that the users who come to this site have a significant amount of old school MMO players who don't like the new school MMOs, I happen to be one of them myself. But this does not mean all the MMO players don't like new MMOs, plenty of them love it and the numbers keep growing.
The MMO makers just forgot about the player base that likes the challenging, long time to max, exploration not rails, death penalty, etc. No major company is making a game to tap into that market, the reason being that market isn't as profitable. That market doesn't want to spend $15 on a sparkling mount, or have a game based around an item shop. That market is the "I only spend $15 a month on an MMO but I am loyal for far longer then the burst players who spend $100 in a month and quit in two months." The issue is the loyalty doesn't matter anymore because companies want the money now. So they are focusing on casual games with extra things that players can blow their money on.
The MMO market as a whole is doing fine and new players keep showing up every day, it is just headed in a much much different direction then it originated in so all the old school players are starting to quit and move on and make sure that they are vocal about it. On a site like this you see so much of that it is easy to think that is the stance of the whole MMO market but it isn't even close.
I'm probably not the best source of information to your question, because I'm still playing one of the first MMOs I tried -- UO.
I've tried others, but nothing comes close to my experience with UO, even with all the bumps and bruises it's had over the years.
Part of the issue I see is that people MMO-hop too much. One little thing they don't like about a game and off to the next one. Its like they are looking for perfection, which simply doesn't exist. I decided a long time ago that I was going to stick it out in the game I love and pretty much ignore what people have to say and play my game. I have to admit, I've always had fun each and every time I log into UO. I don't feel like I missed a thing.
The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence, but it doesn't matter if you pay attention to what's happening on YOUR side of the fence.
I'll look for another MMO when UO closes its doors for good. Hopefully that won't be for a long time.
For the time being I am done lol, been finding it harder and harder to stick with an mmo for any length of time (hour here, an hour there, then i'm bored of it all once again).
Been going back to 10+ year old single player games i've never gotten around to finishing, playing them from start to finish and it's been a heck of a lot more enjoyable, honestly been the most fun i've had gaming in probably just as many years too.
Finally completed FF8 this morning lol, and wow it was so short (only 22 confused hours) can't believe I never finished it before haha, and that ending.. was way too Disney, that shock alone made it worth it if only just for the laughs! FF9 is next, then maybe X2 if i'm not too burnt out of the FF genre lol. Got sooo many other options it's not even funny, may even dig out the N64.
The past few weeks really makes me wonder why i've been wasting so many hours/years with the overly repetive mmo's out there
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Old school-hardly played-single player games ftw!!
Two of my favorites were Wizardry and Bard's Tale on the Apple II. I still play both series occasionally (using an emulator ) and they are still really fun to play. FTW indeed.
Im not done with MMORPG's at all. I still play my first one off and on. Ive went rounds with WoW and played almost all f2p mmo's.
My favorites are usually P2P. Because the communitys are better. Period. Which is kinda why me and alot of others are worried about LOTRO. But we'll see what happens there.
The best part of an mmo for me? The mmo part. Playing with friends, either made in game or out, is awesome. And putting time into a character and watching it grow and become powerfull is awesome. PvP is awesome. I can count the ways, but most of us visiting this site already know why they like their mmos.
Im always looking for a new mmo, a company thats doing something better. They might even get a few of my dollars. But i always end up going back to the ones that made it work. I remember the feature that drew me to World of Warcraft. Seemless zones? AMAZING! I couldnt wait to run around and explore without loading screens. And its STILL a feature i wonder why more mmo's dont utilize. But I digress.
With me and most mmo players, we might take a week off. Maybe a month. Maybe a year. But every time we hear about a new mmo developing we get that itch. We start following it, then guess what? We play it. Make our decision and either stick with it till the next one, or go back to the ones we already love for our own reason.
But simply, we wanna play with other people. I want someone to look at my equipment and say, wow, where'd ya get that. Then i can tell them the story behind it. I can whisper someone and say, " Hey!, Remember running ony with our old guild? Well were trying to get a group together to run it just for the hell of it. Wanna come?" and have someone say," Hell yea i was tired of grinding mine nodes! Lets go!."
I cant do that with every game. Which is why i like my mmos. And why other people like they're mmos. And why we'll be having conversations like this in the future........
I finally found a game worth my time again. Perpetuum online beta, which can best be described as a space game very similar to Eve.
Apart from that i am playing Distant worlds, a single player game also situated in space. Quite refreshing from all the elves and dwarves i killed over times.
My best two MMO's in the past 15 or so years are UO and Daoc.
Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained.
Played: almost all MMO pre 2007
i'm taking a break from them. i'll try some of the new MMO's coming up but i doubt i'll play any of them for very long. i played runescape for 6 years and loved it, can't find anything that compares. it was like a mix of sandbox and themepark. i only quit because it got to themeparkish, and that game made a terrible themepark MMO. also life's getting pretty busy now, spending hours at the computer playing games isn't something i can do anymore....sadly.
This ^ The problem is the games that have been coming out are not true to the MMORPG definition. They simply have forgotten or chose to not include the "R" part of the defintion, mmoROLEpg. We need games with communities, where your actions have consequences, not this on a rail noise. Yes it is possible, see the early games, DAOC, EQ - it is just not nostolgia that have most people sad at the state of things, those games actually created communities that made them so great.
Seriously stop with the 1 player theme park games. Give us a sandbox and let us run with it, you know, actually allow us to have a ROLE in the game.
I was bored of the same routine mmo had so I took a break and played many single player games like rpgs (many), action adventure and shooters.
I am enjoying them a lot (still have like 5 or more games to try but need to beat the ones installed first) but after a while you will miss that feeling were the chat bar is filled with nonsense, people running around, friends, grouping and eventually you will find some mmo that you think it's good and don't feel like your doing same thing again and again but it's like your playing your first one (feeling wise)
This is something that really happened to me and I'm again without an mmo because stupid devs taking years to update game and been at cap for more then a month with nothing more to do unless I craft which is not my thing (Neo online)
The genre has not died it's just that few have tried doing new things and either they didn't go well, company is greedy or not popular.
So go take a break and go play some games that you will enjoy there's a whole list of games you can try I'm sure you can find some you would play and spend some weeks or more playing those.
No it boils down to real gameplay , something that has not really been present in recent years. Their is a big difference between how you view something and the reality that the game uses 1% or 75% of your focus and intelect.
Most current MMOs are not MMORPGs anymore have no comunity and have been turned into nothing more than whack a mole...
I have recently started replaying some games over 10 years old and gameplay wise its all their. Other than a couple of current MMOs that have something about them most these days are tired and lazily developed.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I dont think MMO's are dying, far from it, but we are getting older...Been there, done it, got the T-shirt etc etc...As mention earlier the developers are going for the money now, and it shows in the MMO's on the market.
Before i was a hardcore gamer, it was just so much more fun than beeing the casual one im now.Kids,job, wife, dog takes priority now...no regrets though
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Im looking for FFA PvP games to play, but i really cant compete in them, because it takes time and dedication to be on top.When it comes to playing single player games, either shooters or strategy, sadly it only holds my attention for a short time.Ive found i need that feeling of a "living" world to be satisfied with gaming.
What im trying to say is that its possible to have fun gaming, but not for everyone
Right now im not guilded, but i think im going to TRY find a guild with PVP oriented oldtimers in SWTOR or GW2 to see if i can get back some of that old magic.
I started out in Asherons Call 1 Darktide pvp servers, so thats my nostalgia game, but i loved Shadowbane as well.Now AC1 is dead and SB isnt running anymore.... good times that really cant come back.I think all of us oldtimer just needs to reset the hardisk and stop beeing nostalgic in the future, try finding other oldtimers to play with is my advice, ive found i cant hang with the kids on ventrilo, it has to be adults ^^
Anyway, im not done...just frustrated, like many others that have played a long time.
Favorite Games Played :Asherons Call Darktide - Shadowbane - DaOC PvP
I've thought a lot about this. I'm not currently playing any MMORPGs or computer games at all right now.
It isn't that the games coming out are bad, they just aren't for me.
Risks in creating an MMORPG are high (as others have stated), but also a time factor is at play: the investors want a return and they want it NOW!
See, when a producer goes out to gather capital for a game or one of the "visionaries" states what he/she wants to do, there is a lot of glowy-feel good and greed going around. I can imagine the STO crew going: "WE GOT STAR TREK! It CAN'T LOSE!" and "WE CAN MAKE A GAME SUPER-FAST! YOU'LL GET WOW MONEY TOMORROW!" (Sorry for the shouts, but that's how I see it.) Then they vomit out STO. I can't really in good conscience call it a "game" unless we want to speak of children playing with a cinderblock a game.
The genre did change since we were younger (if you're an older gamer). Games don't have the same frustration level because gamers have evolved. Game developers are simply looking at what worked.
For example: UO and EQ had a high frustration factor. Neither game was "hard", they were just really frustrating because getting whacked had concequences. (In EQ you had corpse runs that could take a long while and you lost experience and you could de-level. In UO you lost massive stats (in the beginning) and lost everything you owned and got trashtalked.)
Eve still retains some of this flavor, but I don't play it because of cheating and forced-corp junk that dominates the later game. Plus I find the game itself to be rather boring. I think many of the "older" gamers play Eve.
WoW won the MMORPG internets prize because it was frustration free. I mean, a 3 year old could be set up with a 10 key keyboard and eventually make it to max level as long as someone was there to equip him. There isn't any way to lose.
I could go on about the psychology of that, but I don't wana type it and you probably either know it and/or don't want to hear it.
Like much of society, these "new" games are mostly flash with no substance. Some, like CO, fail abjectly at both.
Like a lot of you, I've played most of these games. I hate the "F2P" (it isn't anything close to free) movement and probably won't be playing any game that incorporates this model. They're trading development time and expense for an even cheaper experience and charging you more for it.
DDO doesn't count because they started out as a pay model (and I played it) and they've made back their money now. Since subscriptions were down and DDO works best as a "play as you want" game, they did the sensible thing and decided on F2P. But they really aren't F2P as they were a fully developed game that switched later in life.
The new crop of games coming out disappoint me before they're even released. Star Wars is going to suck. Badly. If they continue with what I saw of their combat model. If my trooper is blasting stuff in the face with my rifle as I'm standing toe to toe ... or a jedi is standing there whacking a "goblin" in the face 50 times with a light saber, I won't bother to play it. EQ with another skin doesn't interest me. The fact that they have a tank (trooper), cleric (counselor), thief (smuggler/bounty hunter), and wizard (jedi) turns me right off.
I was playing Free Realms for a while, and it was a fun game I could pick up and had a bunch of different things I could do. However, first they paired down the "free" portion to "extremely crippled" and then to "don't bother". Then they began to pester the everlasting shit out of you to buy stuff. (Like making the buy button sparkle constantly without a way to turn it off or flashing it on and off. Then, finally, whenever you logged in or out they would say "Hey! You got moniez in yer wallet! Buy shit NaWoZ!" I just gave up, even though I subscribed for a while. It just wasn't worth it.
So, I guess in summary, none of the current games appeal to me because:
They suck.
I've played them until they are boring. This threshold is getting shorter and shorter as time goes on.
They are a flat rip-off that offends me.
They aren't exciting enough for me to play through the free beta week (or days). CO and STO fell into this.
I don't have the free time I used to in playing these games.
And one or more of the above.
Right now, any free gaming time I have has been spent on 4x games.
I think I have more fun "chatting" on MMORPG.com, than the MMOs I play nowadays.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
were did you get your info that the mmo world is crashing. I have no interestin quiting them, if you primarly play the crap free ones thats you call, wows not to bad, I still log in if I just want o have fun screw around, my main one is and always has been eve, and I am hopefull for rift and earth rise.
I think I may be done, i'm sure i'll get flamed for this but after playing WoW for 5 years. I haven't found a mmo that can keep my interest for longer than 2 months. Its really just the same thing for any mmo, deep down they are basically all the same. I started my mmo career like 8 years ago with lineage 2 being my first, then of course like many people when WoW came out I switched and played for 5 years. I've tried 8 mmos since I quit WoW and I just generally get bored of them quite easily.
Anyways I do agree with the op.
I should also point out that the same thing pretty much happened with my fps career. I played CS competitively for like 5 years and after that I haven't been able to stick with another fps. I guess when you experience the "best" everything else is compared and falls short.
u gotta admit tho... legend of mir was an awesome game, except for the big problem the staff caused with not keeping server maintanance. i loved it. i would still play it. i tried the new version but meh crap now starting from scratch and all those changes ugh.
as for the mmorpg genre.. for some reason i cant get into it anymore... i quit wow a while ago and definetly not planning to go back. tried a few other here and there and all i got was bored out of my mind... fps and rts seem to catch my eye lately. hopefully D3 will do it :P
Two points:
No developer is setting out to 'take over' WOW. It's an unrealistic goal.
The number of people playing MMOs has gone up each year.
I tried looking up comparative stats but couldn't find numbers for previous years. However, I came acorss this report:
http://www.gamesindustry.com/about-newzoo/todaysgamers_graphs_MMO
and it says that US spent 3.8b on MMOs alone last year. Not on games, not on video games, not on online games, but just on MMOs.
That's some crazy cash.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am an older player, but have been playing MMOs since the launch of Everquest I. I have tried to remain optimistic about the MMO genre since then, but the last three years of bug ridden, over-hyped, under-performing MMO launches has really jaded me. I may not be completely 'done' with the MMO scene, but I am getting close. I intend to give Guild Wars 2 a decent try, but I have pretty much quit playing MMOs for the time-being.
Its not so much that I have outgrown them--its the greed of the game companies CEO's and absence of true innovation from the developers that has led to the current sad and lack-luster state of the MMO genre as a whole. (yes, this has been stated here in the forums before). Quality game play, story and decent game mechanics has taken a back-seat to revenue-streams and profit taking; this has become especially apparent with companies like Time Warner/Turbine, Funcom, EA and Cryptic, etc.
I am especially saddened that so many gamers continue to open their pocket books to some of these companies, for this only encourages and supports the current state of affairs. Until we, as MMO gamers, start making a serious vote with our hard-earned money, MMOs will continue to be over-hyped, under-whelming pixellated worlds designed to do little more than nickel and dime our wallets for as little value as 'corporate' thinks they can get away with.
In closing, I will say that if Star Trek Online, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Champions, along with some others (yes, I could go on), is the best these companies can do for the 'new generation of MMOs', then maybe it would be better for the MMO genre, as a whole, to eventually disappear. Pathetic is, I think, the most fitting adjective here.