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  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    Originally posted by AG-Vuk

    Din the reason it was called dogfighting is , because it was to the death . Early 1900 Europeans still had dog fights and it was to the death as a sport. Hence these early air jousts were to the death since an error/skill/luck in combat usually led to this. It has nothing to do with  maneuvers , agility etc... if combat is to the death it's a dogfight .  STO combat is of such poor quality it's the majority of the time to the death.  The mechanic that avoids friendly fire is the main contributor to this , IMHO.  It just happens that the animal chosen to signify a duel to the death was the dog.

    And while I agree the smaller ships are and should behave better in combat .   The way the combat mechanics are set up , it seems you never miss .

    Dogfighting when applied to war and armed combat has always applied to small airplanes. It has never applied to tall-ships, navel vessels, bombers or anything of that sort.

    This is the only thing you have to know.

     Even dogfighting evolves.  The point being is understand the history and where it's headed. While I agree currently it applies to small planes , simply because for the most part they are single seat crafts, it doesn't necessarily mean that it'll stay that way.  The only real issue seems to relatethe proportions of the vehicle. Someone contended that a BoP or Defiant could dogfight , but for some reason the size of the vessel seems to be the determant factor according to these statements. All I'm stating it that the fight is relative to ones point of view. If I said that only vessels as big a shuttles can dogfight and that larger vessels are incapable . Who's correct ? Since , the very definition that you use is arbitrary.  Would you not consider this a dogfight , on the scale you'd see in the skies over Britian 1940. You see vessels of all sizes weaving, changing course , diving.  I'm just saying you need to look a thing outside of a narrow spectrum , the diffence occurs in the speed at which things occur.     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbGs93JFfb0

    image
  • DinendaeDinendae Member Posts: 1,264

    Originally posted by AG-Vuk

     Even dogfighting evolves.  The point being is understand the history and where it's headed. While I agree currently it applies to small planes , simply because for the most part they are single seat crafts, it doesn't necessarily mean that it'll stay that way.  The only real issue seems to relatethe proportions of the vehicle. Someone contended that a BoP or Defiant could dogfight , but for some reason the size of the vessel seems to be the determant factor according to these statements. All I'm stating it that the fight is relative to ones point of view. If I said that only vessels as big a shuttles can dogfight and that larger vessels are incapable . Who's correct ? Since , the very definition that you use is arbitrary.  Would you not consider this a dogfight , on the scale you'd see in the skies over Britian 1940. You see vessels of all sizes weaving, changing course , diving.  I'm just saying you need to look a thing outside of a narrow spectrum , the diffence occurs in the speed at which things occur.     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbGs93JFfb0

      Come on now, all your doing now is trying to argue what the definition of "is" is. Currently, the definition is not what you are claiming it is. Get over it and move on. Heck, even your video 'evidence' doesn't show any real examples of dogfighting; once again it is examples of tall ship combat.

    "Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan

  • Xondar123Xondar123 Member CommonPosts: 2,543

    Originally posted by raistalin69

    Originally posted by Xondar123


    Originally posted by AG-Vuk

    Din the reason it was called dogfighting is , because it was to the death . Early 1900 Europeans still had dog fights and it was to the death as a sport. Hence these early air jousts were to the death since an error/skill/luck in combat usually led to this. It has nothing to do with  maneuvers , agility etc... if combat is to the death it's a dogfight .  STO combat is of such poor quality it's the majority of the time to the death.  The mechanic that avoids friendly fire is the main contributor to this , IMHO.  It just happens that the animal chosen to signify a duel to the death was the dog.

    And while I agree the smaller ships are and should behave better in combat .   The way the combat mechanics are set up , it seems you never miss .

    Dogfighting when applied to war and armed combat has always applied to small airplanes. It has never applied to tall-ships, navel vessels, bombers or anything of that sort.

    This is the only thing you have to know.

     guys ridiculous argument, there space ships, that by the cryptics system dont have tops or bottoms. your arguing about a system that is essentially cars in space.

    doesnt matter if its dogfightning or not, you cant even shoot at the bottom or top of a ship... which would work on land or sea... but in air or space? its not possible to call it dogfighting when there is only front/back and sides to your ships because its not 3d combat to begin with.

    if they reskinned the game with cars/tanks as opposed to space ships... they really wouldnt have to  change much.

     

    argue if you want about what the definition of dogfighting is.... whatever definition you come too will not fit the sto engine, as any dogfighting includes above and below.

    Annnnd... That's exactly what we are saying. Cryptic screwed up the space combat system, made it small, simple and limited.

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823

    That unfortunately was never in dispute and I'll just leave it at that. It's obvious that we can go round and round , with neither willing to give and inch.

    image
  • SevenwindSevenwind Member UncommonPosts: 2,185

    Curious if the OP or anyone else tried the weekly episode Saturday and what they thought of it. I was at the movies so I missed out when it started. I may try it sometime this week. It looked interesting.

    .. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.

  • GarkanGarkan Member Posts: 552

    Annnnd... That's exactly what we are saying. Cryptic screwed up the space combat system, made it small, simple and limited.

     

    I have played EVE online for years and I can tell you pretty much that STOs space combat got a hell of a lot right, it might not be perfect but it is still very involved and here's a simple comparison,

    EVE Online ship control needs:-


    • Situational awareness

    • module management (offensive, defensive and remote assistance equipment)

    • Range control and awareness of you and your targets velocity and angle of movement relative to you

    • Capacitor management (energy)

    • Overloaded module management (increases equipment effectiveness but damages modules)

    This is basically the gist of controlling a ship in the game, also bear in mind there is no WASD control so you control your direction by right clicking in space, lots of times and only noobs "right click and orbit" try that with a Vagabond in pvp and your a 150,000,000 ISK loss looking for a place to happen


     


    STO ship control needs:-


     

    • Situational awareness

    • Weapon management

    • management of your characters abilities

    • management of your bridge officers abilities

    • maneuvering and heading tactics

    • shield management

    • energy level management

    Plus STOs UI is generally a lot friendlier and WASD frees up your mouse so you can use a combination of mouse and hot keys as well as keyboard control for movement.


     


    I wont go into some of the differences in game design between the two games like the open pvp or huge player driven market and item production and the huge fleet battles for territorial control or the fact that STO pve>EVE pve but saying that the space combat is limited and simple is just wrong it is very very good compared to the only serious space ship MMO around at the moment and is far better than older ones like Jumpgate.


     


    We will have to see how Blackprophecy and Jumpgate evolution compare but for now STO ship control is pretty much king of the hill and yes this opinion is biased, I am biased because I love EVE and STO made me very sad as it highlighted just how poor ship control and the general ship management UI really is.

    Currently playing:

    EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

    Gravity Rush,
    Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

    (Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
    Company of Heroes II.

  • kennethkkennethk Member Posts: 45

    Originally posted by Sevenwind

    Curious if the OP or anyone else tried the weekly episode Saturday and what they thought of it. I was at the movies so I missed out when it started. I may try it sometime this week. It looked interesting.

    I ran it last night. I thought it was pretty good. It actually had a feel of being an episode from a show, at least to me. It was not a quick mission to run, with several parts to it. I was surprised, usually when Cryptic hypes something, they screw it up. I was impressed and looking forward to next week's.

  • CacaphonyCacaphony Member Posts: 738

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    Originally posted by raistalin69

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    Originally posted by AG-Vuk

    Din the reason it was called dogfighting is , because it was to the death . Early 1900 Europeans still had dog fights and it was to the death as a sport. Hence these early air jousts were to the death since an error/skill/luck in combat usually led to this. It has nothing to do with  maneuvers , agility etc... if combat is to the death it's a dogfight .  STO combat is of such poor quality it's the majority of the time to the death.  The mechanic that avoids friendly fire is the main contributor to this , IMHO.  It just happens that the animal chosen to signify a duel to the death was the dog.

    And while I agree the smaller ships are and should behave better in combat .   The way the combat mechanics are set up , it seems you never miss .

    Dogfighting when applied to war and armed combat has always applied to small airplanes. It has never applied to tall-ships, navel vessels, bombers or anything of that sort.

    This is the only thing you have to know.

     guys ridiculous argument, there space ships, that by the cryptics system dont have tops or bottoms. your arguing about a system that is essentially cars in space.

    doesnt matter if its dogfightning or not, you cant even shoot at the bottom or top of a ship... which would work on land or sea... but in air or space? its not possible to call it dogfighting when there is only front/back and sides to your ships because its not 3d combat to begin with.

    if they reskinned the game with cars/tanks as opposed to space ships... they really wouldnt have to  change much.

     

    argue if you want about what the definition of dogfighting is.... whatever definition you come too will not fit the sto engine, as any dogfighting includes above and below.

    Annnnd... That's exactly what we are saying. Cryptic screwed up the space combat system, made it small, simple and limited.

     I do not necessarily mind the space combat in STO, but I think its way over used.  It's the fact that there is so much space combat that bothers me.  If this game were to reflect the spirit of Star Trek it would have much much more non pew pew focused missions and content.  Even for a time of war.  Making pew pew missions is the easy way out. 

  • BurnthebedBurnthebed Member Posts: 443

    No thank you

    The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.

  • CacaphonyCacaphony Member Posts: 738

    Originally posted by Sevenwind

    Curious if the OP or anyone else tried the weekly episode Saturday and what they thought of it. I was at the movies so I missed out when it started. I may try it sometime this week. It looked interesting.

     I wanted to try it because it featured the Breen.. which is my all time favorite race from Star Trek.  I said "f it", when I had 4 server freezes and 2 disconnects on top of constant rubber banding on my way to defari space.

  • SevenwindSevenwind Member UncommonPosts: 2,185

    Originally posted by Cacaphony

    Originally posted by Sevenwind

    Curious if the OP or anyone else tried the weekly episode Saturday and what they thought of it. I was at the movies so I missed out when it started. I may try it sometime this week. It looked interesting.

     I wanted to try it because it featured the Breen.. which is my all time favorite race from Star Trek.  I said "f it", when I had 4 server freezes and 2 disconnects on top of constant rubber banding on my way to defari space.

     I wondered about that. I seem to rubber band a lot in Mill. City in CO if the zone is near max. I haven't rubber banded so much since the days of AC2. Thanks for the info, helps me decide maybe I should wait till mid-week to try the episode.

    .. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.

  • SevenwindSevenwind Member UncommonPosts: 2,185

    Originally posted by kennethk

    I ran it last night. I thought it was pretty good. It actually had a feel of being an episode from a show, at least to me. It was not a quick mission to run, with several parts to it. I was surprised, usually when Cryptic hypes something, they screw it up. I was impressed and looking forward to next week's.

     Thanks for the info. Did you run into any lag as one poster mentioned? I'm looking forward to it now when I can get some playtime in.

    .. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.

  • CacaphonyCacaphony Member Posts: 738

    Originally posted by Sevenwind

    Originally posted by kennethk

    I ran it last night. I thought it was pretty good. It actually had a feel of being an episode from a show, at least to me. It was not a quick mission to run, with several parts to it. I was surprised, usually when Cryptic hypes something, they screw it up. I was impressed and looking forward to next week's.

     Thanks for the info. Did you run into any lag as one poster mentioned? I'm looking forward to it now when I can get some playtime in.

     Today, D Stahl posted a reason for the rubber banding I was expierencing.

    We have started increasing instance limits again in order to get more people in the same zones. This usually comes at a performance cost, so if you start to notice more rubberbanding, please comment on where you were and how many people were in the zone.



    There are upcoming episodes that we are purposely setting in static zones so that we can get more people involved in the mission. We want people to enjoy teaming as well, and this will be one small addition to help.

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=177885&page=15

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,596

    Originally posted by Zap-Robo


    1.  

    2. It's Two Games in One - A game of two halves. Not only do you have the space combat flying around in your ship but you also get to go on away missions and run around battling foes, or resolving conflict without bloodshed.

    It's two games in one in about the same way that waiting for a roller coaster and riding a roller coaster are 2 rides in one.  With a few notable exceptions, the ground game is a tedious pewpewpewfest, which propels its episode by having one of your crew tell you what happened, and what to do next.  Yes, your crew member, tell you, the captain, what to do next. 

    But sure, anyone interested should trial it.  I'd just make sure everyone knows that the gameplay during the trial is pretty much EVERYTHING you will ever experience in the game from start to finish. 

  • buegurbuegur Member UncommonPosts: 456

    To get back on subject about why you might like the game, here is some reasons why I like the game:

    1. Bridge crews that can be trained to perform tasks differently from others.  Really helps with making every crew different.  I for one was glad they didn't chose the player option for manning crews.

    2. Ships that have different purposes adds to the spice of life and gives you that many more choices to chose from. The many choices to outfit your ship makes every ship a bit different.  The skills you select make that much more difference. The limited visual customization is necessary in my view as it would be difficult to determine what type of ship your fighting if there was unlimited customization.  There are enough options to chose from including colors (from yellow,blues,reds,greens etc) for detailing.

    3.  The variety of things you can do including Exporation, Questing, Diplomacy, Aiding the planets, Fleet defense of star bases, Aggresive NPC fleet/monster encounters in space, Ground missions, PvP , keep things from becoming stale. 

    4.  I like the main questing missions such as the portal back in time one that has you aid the Enterprise of Kirks time.  Was a really nice touch to hear Spock say he was familiar with time travel!

    5. I like the different ground combat skills and how well the Bridge crew aids in the ground combat without me having to order them around.  Many people short change themselves on ground combat skills and die repeatably especially in PvP ground combat.  Many of the ground combat group missions are a blast if you have any skills!

    6.  The new casual wear adds a bit of flair and helps in the social aspect of the game.  Now liven up the bar!

    7.    I like the new interiors and the fact you can put your trophies in them.  Can't wait to see what they do to add more functionality to them.

    8.  PvP is fun and varied, would like it to have more affect on the world.

  • ScribbleLay1ScribbleLay1 Member Posts: 177

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by Zap-Robo




    1.  

    2. It's Two Games in One - A game of two halves. Not only do you have the space combat flying around in your ship but you also get to go on away missions and run around battling foes, or resolving conflict without bloodshed.

    It's two games in one in about the same way that waiting for a roller coaster and riding a roller coaster are 2 rides in one.  With a few notable exceptions, the ground game is a tedious pewpewpewfest, which propels its episode by having one of your crew tell you what happened, and what to do next.  Yes, your crew member, tell you, the captain, what to do next. 

    But sure, anyone interested should trial it.  I'd just make sure everyone knows that the gameplay during the trial is pretty much EVERYTHING you will ever experience in the game from start to finish. 

    Yes you can say that it is two games in one, but neither game is a complete game so what you have is two uncomplete games trying to be one complete game, sorta like taking an apple and un-cooked pie crust and saying look you have an apple pie, or maybe I Just Don't Get It.

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823

    Originally posted by buegur   Is this a real post or are you reading/writing  from a script ?

    To get back on subject about why you might like the game, here is some reasons why I like the game:

    1. Bridge crews that can be trained to perform tasks differently from others.  Really helps with making every crew different.  I for one was glad they didn't chose the player option for manning crews. 

    Yes , it presents a huge balance issue in PvP , especially in KvF . Training pets is not , in my consideration a selling point . Unless as you point out your preference is playing solo. 

    2. Ships that have different purposes adds to the spice of life and gives you that many more choices to chose from. The many choices to outfit your ship makes every ship a bit different.  The skills you select make that much more difference. The limited visual customization is necessary in my view as it would be difficult to determine what type of ship your fighting if there was unlimited customization.  There are enough options to chose from including colors (from yellow,blues,reds,greens etc) for detailing.

    Really and truely this like it's out of the Cryptic sales manual . Stress the diversity and customization options. Truely they are limited , and the ship functions are limited by the class you choose.  It seems that most of the C-Store options are meant for Engineers as well since currently most of the C-Store additions were crusiers. One way Cryptic has chosen to circumvent this issue now is by making one of the B Off slots universal .

    3.  The variety of things you can do including Exporation, Questing, Diplomacy, Aiding the planets, Fleet defense of star bases, Aggresive NPC fleet/monster encounters in space, Ground missions, PvP , keep things from becoming stale. 

    Have you played the end game Solo , or have you not reached that point ? How's the repetitiveness working for you ?

    4.  I like the main questing missions such as the portal back in time one that has you aid the Enterprise of Kirks time.  Was a really nice touch to hear Spock say he was familiar with time travel!

    Granted there are some interesting parts , but equally as many lame parts. The game lacks the quality of consistency.

    5. I like the different ground combat skills and how well the Bridge crew aids in the ground combat without me having to order them around.  Many people short change themselves on ground combat skills and die repeatably especially in PvP ground combat.  Many of the ground combat group missions are a blast if you have any skills!

    Ground combat consists of spam a hold and wait for expose and exploit. Have you played any ground PvP , I'm sure if you did it would have drove you to quit.

    6.  The new casual wear adds a bit of flair and helps in the social aspect of the game.  Now liven up the bar!

    So you find the copy and paste from CO to STO acceptable ?  You do realize that this is what it is ?

    7.    I like the new interiors and the fact you can put your trophies in them.  Can't wait to see what they do to add more functionality to them.

    This will be the extent of the functionality . If you want I can find a discussion , in which they basically claim the engine is the limiting factor on what's possible in the ship interiors.

    8.  PvP is fun and varied, would like it to have more affect on the world.

    I'm happy you enjoy the game , but really ?  I would expected a bit better effort, then the company line. One last question while I'm at it . Exactly how much Klingon content have you completed.  Since this is part of the game and a significant part , shouldn't it follow that his content rises to the above standard ? If it doesn't the game may and can be termed a failure.

    image
  • Aki_RossAki_Ross Member Posts: 166

    There's only one truth about STO, and that's Cryptic wanted the IP for the money. They never wanted to make a real Star Trek based game. All they did was to take the CO engine and rap it in a Star Trek skin, and they never even got that right. So in the end, Cryptic were the wrong people to give the IP to and I think Paramount should pull the rug out from under their feet.

  • raistalin69raistalin69 Member Posts: 575

    Originally posted by buegur

    To get back on subject about why you might like the game, here is some reasons why I like the game:

    1. Bridge crews that can be trained to perform tasks differently from others.  Really helps with making every crew different.  I for one was glad they didn't chose the player option for manning crews.

    2. Ships that have different purposes adds to the spice of life and gives you that many more choices to chose from. The many choices to outfit your ship makes every ship a bit different.  The skills you select make that much more difference. The limited visual customization is necessary in my view as it would be difficult to determine what type of ship your fighting if there was unlimited customization.  There are enough options to chose from including colors (from yellow,blues,reds,greens etc) for detailing.

    sorry but 3 ship types? if this were a fantasy genre its the equivalant of have fighter/mage and priest. thats not variety, and thats not a selling point.

    3.  The variety of things you can do including Exporation, Questing, Diplomacy, Aiding the planets, Fleet defense of star bases, Aggresive NPC fleet/monster encounters in space, Ground missions, PvP , keep things from becoming stale. 

    exploration- horrible system panned by critics and players.....questing- extremely reptitive, as pointed out by fans and critics.....ground missions- bad system panned by critics and players... pvp- pointless and repetitive according to fans and critics....

    keeps things from getting stale- different game, sto is extrememly repetitive and gets stale fast (especially true at end game)

    4.  I like the main questing missions such as the portal back in time one that has you aid the Enterprise of Kirks time.  Was a really nice touch to hear Spock say he was familiar with time travel!

    allthough there are a few good missions, the good missions get lost in the abundance of repetitive boring ones

    5. I like the different ground combat skills and how well the Bridge crew aids in the ground combat without me having to order them around.  Many people short change themselves on ground combat skills and die repeatably especially in PvP ground combat.  Many of the ground combat group missions are a blast if you have any skills!

    ground combat is seen as the worst part of this game by many, and your right (other than pvp) its extremely easy... therefore boring

    6.  The new casual wear adds a bit of flair and helps in the social aspect of the game.  Now liven up the bar!

    if uniforms make the game better for you thats cool, but ive never played an mmo so i can dress up my dolly.

    7.    I like the new interiors and the fact you can put your trophies in them.  Can't wait to see what they do to add more functionality to them.

    considering cryptic cant even sort out getting your captain to sit in his/her chair... be prepared for a very very long wait.

    8.  PvP is fun and varied, would like it to have more affect on the world.

    pvp is fun, for about an hour... then its just repetitive and meaningless.

     

    IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    Originally posted by raistalin69

    Originally posted by buegur

    To get back on subject about why you might like the game, here is some reasons why I like the game:

    1. Bridge crews that can be trained to perform tasks differently from others.  Really helps with making every crew different.  I for one was glad they didn't chose the player option for manning crews.

    2. Ships that have different purposes adds to the spice of life and gives you that many more choices to chose from. The many choices to outfit your ship makes every ship a bit different.  The skills you select make that much more difference. The limited visual customization is necessary in my view as it would be difficult to determine what type of ship your fighting if there was unlimited customization.  There are enough options to chose from including colors (from yellow,blues,reds,greens etc) for detailing.

    sorry but 3 ship types? if this were a fantasy genre its the equivalant of have fighter/mage and priest. thats not variety, and thats not a selling point.

    3.  The variety of things you can do including Exporation, Questing, Diplomacy, Aiding the planets, Fleet defense of star bases, Aggresive NPC fleet/monster encounters in space, Ground missions, PvP , keep things from becoming stale. 

    exploration- horrible system panned by critics and players.....questing- extremely reptitive, as pointed out by fans and critics.....ground missions- bad system panned by critics and players... pvp- pointless and repetitive according to fans and critics....

    keeps things from getting stale- different game, sto is extrememly repetitive and gets stale fast (especially true at end game)

    4.  I like the main questing missions such as the portal back in time one that has you aid the Enterprise of Kirks time.  Was a really nice touch to hear Spock say he was familiar with time travel!

    allthough there are a few good missions, the good missions get lost in the abundance of repetitive boring ones

    5. I like the different ground combat skills and how well the Bridge crew aids in the ground combat without me having to order them around.  Many people short change themselves on ground combat skills and die repeatably especially in PvP ground combat.  Many of the ground combat group missions are a blast if you have any skills!

    ground combat is seen as the worst part of this game by many, and your right (other than pvp) its extremely easy... therefore boring

    6.  The new casual wear adds a bit of flair and helps in the social aspect of the game.  Now liven up the bar!

    if uniforms make the game better for you thats cool, but ive never played an mmo so i can dress up my dolly.

    7.    I like the new interiors and the fact you can put your trophies in them.  Can't wait to see what they do to add more functionality to them.

    considering cryptic cant even sort out getting your captain to sit in his/her chair... be prepared for a very very long wait.

    8.  PvP is fun and varied, would like it to have more affect on the world.

    pvp is fun, for about an hour... then its just repetitive and meaningless.

     

    I approve of this message.

    (Sorry, political ads on the TV)

     

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776

    Originally posted by Zap-Robo

    Well, I knew trying to start a STO positive thread on MMORPG.com was a long shot, thought everyone could keep the positive in one thread, negative in another and allow people to compare and contrast the two.

    I truly recommend that people come to their own conclusions about any game and not believe the hype or hatred.

    I'm not claiming that Cryptic have made a perfect game, and yes, I know the general community here seems to be one of outright hostility to the product that they've put out into the market. But... it's here, and you know what? I find it fun despite it's flaws!

    Some of the negativity here I agree with, some I think is over-reaction, and some I reckon that the poster had their kittens murdered by Cryptic employees.

    Thanks for taking what was hoped to be a constructive post and turn it into yet another whinefest! /flameon

     Honestly this post by you was on the second page of your post and I don't think you had one single person able or willing to come in and cosign on your good feelings.  I'm not against you having them but truth be told without some of the rather honest opinions you got your thread would have been buried.

    As another poster stated you are a lifer and have a vested interest in cheerleading for this rather shallow game that is dripping in question marks even around the features you tout in a similar faction to a back of the box bullet point.

    I don't know you just seem like the one viet kong still running around the jungles thinking there is a war to fight,  it's over this game is going to at the most remain in a niche that will leave you always wishing there were more people to play with but in your defense I do say glad you enjoy STO hope you continue to enjoy STO hope they continue to add content and maybe in a year they can be somewhere around where it should have been at launch, but lastly and with guilt I hope you continue to suffer there in relative silence as far as that games population goes and maybe we can see someone with a pulse on the mmo community running Cryptic and STO.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619

    Zap,

     

    In an earlier post you said that people should come up with their own conclusions and thats right to an extent but...  Informed consumers read reviews of products and factor that in before making a purchase.  The reviews of STO average a 6 out of 10 and thats not from haters, thats from magazine and gaming sites, NOT people who hate Cryptic.  There is a reason the game has earned the 60% score and it is NOT because everyone hates Cryptic.

     

    The game has issues, real issues.  Cryptics business model has issues and so does their level of game development.  These guys have put out two MMO's and one was based on a top 5 IP and both the games have less than 100k in subs according to MMOdata.com.  Sub-100k in subs is NOT a successful game.  I dont understand how you can ask people to purchase the game to make an opinion when the reviews and most of the players have already made it clear the game is not that good.  Do you honestly feel people should ignore the large amount of data that indicates the game is not very good?

     

    I feel you homie, I'm a lifer too.  I was very busy at work and did not have time to play more than a few hours of beta so I took the chance.  I rolled the dice and I lost.  Some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you.  The day I purchased my lifetime sub, the bear ate me. 

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • gandalesgandales Member UncommonPosts: 472

    Originally posted by Talonsin

    Zap,

     

    In an earlier post you said that people should come up with their own conclusions and thats right to an extent but...  Informed consumers read reviews of products and factor that in before making a purchase.  The reviews of STO average a 6 out of 10 and thats not from haters, thats from magazine and gaming sites, NOT people who hate Cryptic.  There is a reason the game has earned the 60% score and it is NOT because everyone hates Cryptic.

     

    The game has issues, real issues.  Cryptics business model has issues and so does their level of game development.  These guys have put out two MMO's and one was based on a top 5 IP and both the games have less than 100k in subs according to MMOdata.com.  Sub-100k in subs is NOT a successful game.  I dont understand how you can ask people to purchase the game to make an opinion when the reviews and most of the players have already made it clear the game is not that good.  Do you honestly feel people should ignore the large amount of data that indicates the game is not very good?

     

    I feel you homie, I'm a lifer too.  I was very busy at work and did not have time to play more than a few hours of beta so I took the chance.  I rolled the dice and I lost.  Some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you.  The day I purchased my lifetime sub, the bear ate me. 

    Well, I have enjoyed a lot of game with bad reviews and dislike games rated as 9 or even 10. That's the reason I am not paying attention to magazine or sites ratings, I don't want to feel like a sheep. They are often made by gamers with similar taste, that not necesarily will be the same of other people, including myself. That's the reason for trials, free demos, etc.

    I could say that every p2p mmo under 1M (who decides the magic number?) is a failure so that leave us with ...

    Yes, I encourage people try things by themselves (unless is really harmful like poison) so they can decide on its particular case and not being a sheep that depend on ratings.

  • SevenwindSevenwind Member UncommonPosts: 2,185

    Originally posted by Talonsin

    Zap,

     

    In an earlier post you said that people should come up with their own conclusions and thats right to an extent but...  Informed consumers read reviews of products and factor that in before making a purchase.  The reviews of STO average a 6 out of 10 and thats not from haters, thats from magazine and gaming sites, NOT people who hate Cryptic.  There is a reason the game has earned the 60% score and it is NOT because everyone hates Cryptic.

     

    The game has issues, real issues.  Cryptics business model has issues and so does their level of game development.  These guys have put out two MMO's and one was based on a top 5 IP and both the games have less than 100k in subs according to MMOdata.com.  Sub-100k in subs is NOT a successful game.  I dont understand how you can ask people to purchase the game to make an opinion when the reviews and most of the players have already made it clear the game is not that good.  Do you honestly feel people should ignore the large amount of data that indicates the game is not very good?

     

    I feel you homie, I'm a lifer too.  I was very busy at work and did not have time to play more than a few hours of beta so I took the chance.  I rolled the dice and I lost.  Some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you.  The day I purchased my lifetime sub, the bear ate me. 

     I'm going to agree with Zap and argue against your first paragraph. This is because people enjoy different things. They should, if interested in STO or any other game get the trial and see for yourself no matter what forums, reviews say about the game. Millions of people play WoW I couldn't get into it. I very much enjoyed Tabula Rasa and there is a lot of people who did not. Doesn't make either game bad because people's taste vary. What a majority may find bad you may enjoy. So even if the critics, forums and what not tell you STO is bad you may like it.

    I've said it a million times if you go by the forums on this site you wouldn't be playing any game. A bad review never stopped me from trying a game out to see for myself if I liked it. Even if a game closes like TR my time in the game was fun and I enjoyed it. Worth the money I spent on it.

    If you are unsure about a game at release wait for a free trial. Several different modes to explore and try out a game and judge for yourself. Make decision by yourself, that's my opinion.

    .. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619

    There will be people that like STO, there are people into everything but statistically speaking, the chances are the average person will not like this game.  I base that on the low sub numbers (in the bottom 10% according to MMOdata.com) and the universally poor reviews. 

     

    Maybe it would be a better approach if you guys listed the things you like about the game and put a disclaimer in to warn people of portions you feel are not up to par?  Something like, if you like PvE ship combat its very fun for me but dont expect much from the crafting or Klingon faction.  I think a lot of the trolling/attacking is based on both sides only focusing on their view and not being honest about the entire content.  If the fans conceeded that the game has some serious issues and the haters conceeded that some parts were ok, the world of forums would be a more useful place.

     

    The game does have some fun content, I really enjoyed some of the episodes but it didnt have anything else to hold me.

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

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