They haven't been doing that very well either. No gain in subscriptions in 2 years, even with Wrath released. Ghostcrawler said only 30% of those doing the free trial end up subscribing. Umm, 30% success rate is good in baseball not in an MMO.
woah, gotta catch ya there. are you honestly saying WoW isn't doing well? We all knew it would stop growing eventually, there is no way it could grow endlessly. however 30% of free trials joining is incredible. 30% retention for an MMO is mind blowing. look at Aion, WAR, CoH, Vanguard, AoC, Any of the AAA titles released in the last 5 years. the only one that even comes close to keeping 30% is Aion, and thats only because its still barely a year old.
I'm the first person to point out sub numbers don't make a good game. however they do point out a successful game, which WoW is by far the most successful MMO on the market... ever. If the other MMOs I played could hold onto 30% of their player base, I would be soooo happy. however the only MMO besides WoW to ever "grow" is EVE.
30% is good in baseball, 30% is freaking fantastic in MMO.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Originally posted by DrowNoble They haven't been doing that very well either. No gain in subscriptions in 2 years, even with Wrath released. Ghostcrawler said only 30% of those doing the free trial end up subscribing. Umm, 30% success rate is good in baseball not in an MMO.
Do you know what it is 30% of though?? If it is 30% of 100 players a week for example, then yes i can see your point, but if several thousand a week are taking the trial up and 30% of those are staying then we have a different story don't we?
It is all a matter of scale when you work with percentages, although i will admit that those that tend to publish percentages usually do it to hide actual numbers, but as we don't have any numbers to relate that against it is a bit of a red herring either way.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
And 70% just don't like it..... I think that says a lot as well.. It was enough of a concern that Blizzard addressed it.. However, I suspect it will remain a 30% retention rate and nothing will change.. It reminds me of the podcast by Warcraft Outsiders talking about that Mr T commercial. Who were they trying to target with the Night Elf Mohawk commercial, Adults?.. hmmmmm
As a player that when playing WoW, tends to prefer smaller PvP guilds with goofy names for the sake of flavor - I will tell you that this absolutely does not affect my game playing at all. Hence, I don't care.
There won't be guilds with those kind of perks until after Cata guilds hit 85 anyways so any exp buffs are purely for the sake of alts imo.
Edit: Oh, and the 70% leave argument is retarded too - I probably started a game you loved and left it within a day or two as I have tried a lot of games. So really... any MMORPG with a trial is subject to those numbers - 30% is probably high for you fickle trolls anyways.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
And 70% just don't like it..... I think that says a lot as well.. It was enough of a concern that Blizzard addressed it.. However, I suspect it will remain a 30% retention rate and nothing will change.. It reminds me of the podcast by Warcraft Outsiders talking about that Mr T commercial. Who were they trying to target with the Night Elf Mohawk commercial, Adults?.. hmmmmm
Yeah, because MR.T is an icon to children. So is William Shatner, Jean-Claude Vandam, Ozzy Ozbounre, etc.
And 70% just don't like it..... I think that says a lot as well.. It was enough of a concern that Blizzard addressed it.. However, I suspect it will remain a 30% retention rate and nothing will change.. It reminds me of the podcast by Warcraft Outsiders talking about that Mr T commercial. Who were they trying to target with the Night Elf Mohawk commercial, Adults?.. hmmmmm
Yeah, because MR.T is an icon to children. So is William Shatner, Jean-Claude Vandam, Ozzy Ozbounre, etc.
These are icons of the 70's-80's.
Bout to say most people have no clue who they were besides mini me.
As a player that when playing WoW, tends to prefer smaller PvP guilds with goofy names for the sake of flavor - I will tell you that this absolutely does not affect my game playing at all. Hence, I don't care.
There won't be guilds with those kind of perks until after Cata guilds hit 85 anyways so any exp buffs are purely for the sake of alts imo.
Edit: Oh, and the 70% leave argument is retarded too - I probably started a game you loved and left it within a day or two as I have tried a lot of games. So really... any MMORPG with a trial is subject to those numbers - 30% is probably high for you fickle trolls anyways.
30% is the highest mmo retention rate out there btw.
As a player that when playing WoW, tends to prefer smaller PvP guilds with goofy names for the sake of flavor - I will tell you that this absolutely does not affect my game playing at all. Hence, I don't care.
There won't be guilds with those kind of perks until after Cata guilds hit 85 anyways so any exp buffs are purely for the sake of alts imo.
Edit: Oh, and the 70% leave argument is retarded too - I probably started a game you loved and left it within a day or two as I have tried a lot of games. So really... any MMORPG with a trial is subject to those numbers - 30% is probably high for you fickle trolls anyways.
30% is the highest mmo retention rate out there btw.
Thank you for backing up my point
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Everything in any mmo has its flaws...There is not such thing as perfection when you have tens of thousands of players giving their opinion. Its just like the biggest myth in mmo gaming, class balance. There is no such thing. To have class balance you would have to have only one class. Even if the dev did all the math and thought about every eventuality, some people would still complain. The thing is that the avarage gamer does not have an overview of the whole mmo, he knows only a portion and that is not enough to judge what is or what isnt balanced, or what will or wont cause problems. Thats why even though I invest myself in the mmos I play I never take the game so serious that things, such as this Guild Leveling problem spoils the experiance for me. I say if the Pally is too strong to solo take a buddy, if thats not enough take two...thats it. To me every problem has a very simple solution. If you and your guild have a play to win mentaility and feel that you are leveling to slow becouse of the way you play, simply change things up...its alot easier and quicker than waiting for the dev to balance the game for you.
And 70% just don't like it..... I think that says a lot as well.. It was enough of a concern that Blizzard addressed it.. However, I suspect it will remain a 30% retention rate and nothing will change.. It reminds me of the podcast by Warcraft Outsiders talking about that Mr T commercial. Who were they trying to target with the Night Elf Mohawk commercial, Adults?.. hmmmmm
Hmm. lets see. WOW hit 11million subscribers, and then got cut off by the chinese gov't, which is the only reason they 'stalled' at 11 million. China is back online, Wrath is about to launch there, and Cata is about to launch in the USA. Expect to see 12 million soon. Servers are still full, and things such as PVP WG are still packed with players. On week nights, there are still servers with queues.
But even then, you are criticizing WOW for 'stalling' at 11million. How many games are even able to hold numbers after launch, let alone 6 years later? AOC sold 1 million boxes, and within 3 months was below 200k players. Warhammer has well under 100k subscribers. LOTRO and EQ2 fell apart and are going F2P after not being able to hold onto subscribers.
So as 'terrible' as you think WOW is, it is the only game that is holding subscribers, and then at 11 million ( almost 100 times as many players AOC, LOTRO and Warhammer)
Of course blizzard is improviing the leveling aspect of the game. As they say repeatedly, they have learned a lot about zone design and questing in the last 6 years, and anyone who has quested through BC and Wraith can tell you that.
This is an exciting expansion for many reasons. So many people are going to come back to see the revamp, players are going to reroll alts to see the new questlines that reference the earlier stuff. ( the CSI:miami quest in westfall haha).
I just find it hilarious that you make these posts about wow stalling when there isn't another game out there that can hold subscribers.
And back to the free-trial issue. You know, AOC, Warhammer, LOTRO et al have free trials and yet they are losing subscribers. I'm guessing they would be thrilled with a 30% retention rate for trial accounts.
So tell us, what game are you subscribed to that 'does it right'?
Originally posted by Rydeson It reminds me of the podcast by Warcraft Outsiders talking about that Mr T commercial. Who were they trying to target with the Night Elf Mohawk commercial, Adults?.. hmmmmm
As far as the advertising is concerned, that is the exact market they are aiming for, the late 20's & 30's crowds. It has always been their customer base and why wouldn't you aim your advertising there??
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I dont even play WoW anymore, but I like it when Blizz at least tried to add new things to the game. Sure, it wont all be perfect at the start, but at least they try! Most companies sell all the boxed copies and then just try to trick you to stick around it seems nowdays.
Anyway, if people leave a smaller guild to join a bigger one so they can get the 'advantage', then its not a person I would want in my guild anyway. Smaller guilds are generally formed because they enjoy playing with EACHOTHER, not necessarily because of some advantage it gives them.
And 70% just don't like it..... I think that says a lot as well.. It was enough of a concern that Blizzard addressed it.. However, I suspect it will remain a 30% retention rate and nothing will change.. It reminds me of the podcast by Warcraft Outsiders talking about that Mr T commercial. Who were they trying to target with the Night Elf Mohawk commercial, Adults?.. hmmmmm
Hmm. lets see. WOW hit 11million subscribers, and then got cut off by the chinese gov't, which is the only reason they 'stalled' at 11 million. China is back online, Wrath is about to launch there, and Cata is about to launch in the USA. Expect to see 12 million soon. Now that is some funny stuff.. China never cut off WoW.. They only disallowed the release of WoTLK, but the rest of the game was alive and kicking.. LOL Servers are still full, and things such as PVP WG are still packed with players. On week nights, there are still servers with queues. Ha Ha Ha.. I played on 3 servers and all 3 showed NO GROWTH whatsoever NONE.. ZIPPO.. NADA.. ZILCH.. in the past year there were more that left the game after being bored to tears, then newbies on each of those 3 servers.. I only was in queue ONCE in the 5 years of playing, and that was back in 2007 or 2008..
But even then, you are criticizing WOW for 'stalling' at 11million. NO one outside of WoW, has a clue what the sub numbers are.. NOT even you.. We know they didnt' grow, but for all we know they could of dropped to under 10 million since 2008.. How many games are even able to hold numbers after launch, let alone 6 years later? AOC sold 1 million boxes, and within 3 months was below 200k players. Warhammer has well under 100k subscribers. LOTRO and EQ2 fell apart and are going F2P after not being able to hold onto subscribers. Ha Ha.. fell apart.. The way I see it.. EQ2 and LoTRO are much better MMORPG's then WoW.. Should we go back to the usual McDonald's example.
So as 'terrible' as you think WOW is, it is the only game that is holding subscribers, and then at 11 million ( almost 100 times as many players AOC, LOTRO and Warhammer) Yeah.. and McDonalds is the only fast food hole that has billions and billions served.. but that doesnt' say much, does it?
Of course blizzard is improviing the leveling aspect of the game. As they say repeatedly, they have learned a lot about zone design and questing in the last 6 years, and anyone who has quested through BC and Wraith can tell you that. Improved what? In my opinion WoW has turned into a childish e-sport game for kids.. only thing missing is the EPEENS and game tokens to feed in the machine..
This is an exciting expansion for many reasons. So many people are going to come back to see the revamp, players are going to reroll alts to see the new questlines that reference the earlier stuff. ( the CSI:miami quest in westfall haha). Uh huh.. and I'm sure when then don't stay.. you'll quickly forget this statement and ride quietly off into the sunset
I just find it hilarious that you make these posts about wow stalling when there isn't another game out there that can hold subscribers. There are quite a few games out there in the worldwide market that are doing just fine such as EVE, Dofus, FFXI Runescape Linage, LOTRO (going on 4 years).. And again you have no clue what the actual sub numbers are.. I can only assume by Blizzards LACK of bragging, that things have changed, and not for the better
And back to the free-trial issue. You know, AOC, Warhammer, LOTRO et al have free trials and yet they are losing subscribers. I'm guessing they would be thrilled with a 30% retention rate for trial accounts.
So tell us, what game are you subscribed to that 'does it right'?
Currently I enjoy EQ2 It's far more a ROLE PLAYING MMO, then WoW is WoW used to be fun in the beginning in a casual way.. however I and many others got tired of it Sorry that seems to hurt your feelings.. I'm one of the 70% that do not find WoW enjoyable to pay to play. Now if WoW would make some MASSIVE changes.. lol
Hmm. lets see. WOW hit 11million subscribers, and then got cut off by the chinese gov't, which is the only reason they 'stalled' at 11 million. China is back online, Wrath is about to launch there, and Cata is about to launch in the USA. Expect to see 12 million soon. Now that is some funny stuff.. China never cut off WoW.. They only disallowed the release of WoTLK, but the rest of the game was alive and kicking.. LOL
This is just another example of how ill informed your posts are.
Hmm. lets see. WOW hit 11million subscribers, and then got cut off by the chinese gov't, which is the only reason they 'stalled' at 11 million. China is back online, Wrath is about to launch there, and Cata is about to launch in the USA. Expect to see 12 million soon. Now that is some funny stuff.. China never cut off WoW.. They only disallowed the release of WoTLK, but the rest of the game was alive and kicking.. LOL
This is just another example of how ill informed your posts are.
Hmm. lets see. WOW hit 11million subscribers, and then got cut off by the chinese gov't, which is the only reason they 'stalled' at 11 million. China is back online, Wrath is about to launch there, and Cata is about to launch in the USA. Expect to see 12 million soon. Now that is some funny stuff.. China never cut off WoW.. They only disallowed the release of WoTLK, but the rest of the game was alive and kicking.. LOL
This is just another example of how ill informed your posts are.
Wow China spent a good deal of 2009 offline at various times as a result of issues with the chinese government and other issues.
WoW spent more time ON, then OFFline.. BTW genius.. Even when the servers went down because of WoW's violations to China regulations, the accounts NEVER CLOSED.. The on and off again drama had no effect on WoW sub numbers.. Do you know why? Because NO ONE in China pays a subscription fee, therefore Blizzard keeps all the China accounts OPEN indefinately unless the player themself "closes" the free account. China players only pay a pro-rate pay to play.. If a player in China plays zero hours this month, he/she pays NOTHING to Blizzard.. In fact the average player in China which is half of Blizzards 11 million 2008 number pays an average of a few US dollars a month to play, which is about 10% of Blizzards income.. VERIFIED by your own link..
FYI in case you don't know.. The average Euro player, which is about 25% of Blizzards sub numbers pays an average of 10 USD a month to play, while North America market pay the full 15 USD a month to play.. Blizzard only uses China for sub bragging numbers, it's why most western game companys could care less about China and do not even try to get into that market.. I'm confident that if Blizzard used the same subscription format for north america as they do for China you could get another 500k sub instantly, million if you tossed in Euro too.. BUT then their income would drop like a brick
Hmm. lets see. WOW hit 11million subscribers, and then got cut off by the chinese gov't, which is the only reason they 'stalled' at 11 million. China is back online, Wrath is about to launch there, and Cata is about to launch in the USA. Expect to see 12 million soon. Now that is some funny stuff.. China never cut off WoW.. They only disallowed the release of WoTLK, but the rest of the game was alive and kicking.. LOL
This is just another example of how ill informed your posts are.
Wow China spent a good deal of 2009 offline at various times as a result of issues with the chinese government and other issues.
WoW spent more time ON, then OFFline.. BTW genius.. Even when the servers went down because of WoW's violations to China regulations, the accounts NEVER CLOSED.. The on and off again drama had no effect on WoW sub numbers.. Do you know why? Because NO ONE in China pays a subscription fee, therefore Blizzard keeps all the China accounts OPEN indefinately unless the player themself "closes" the free account. China players only pay a pro-rate pay to play.. If a player in China plays zero hours this month, he/she pays NOTHING to Blizzard.. In fact the average player in China which is half of Blizzards 11 million 2008 number pays an average of a few US dollars a month to play, which is about 10% of Blizzards income.. VERIFIED by your own link..
FYI in case you don't know.. The average Euro player, which is about 25% of Blizzards sub numbers pays an average of 10 USD a month to play, while North America market pay the full 15 USD a month to play.. Blizzard only uses China for sub bragging numbers, it's why most western game companys could care less about China and do not even try to get into that market.. I'm confident that if Blizzard used the same subscription format for north america as they do for China you could get another 500k sub instantly, million if you tossed in Euro too.. BUT then their income would drop like a brick
Are you trying to say that since the accounts were never closed, the game still counts as being online, even though it was offline?
You're contradicting yourself here. Two posts ago, you told everyone in here that "the rest of the game was still alive and kicking".
Here's a chart showing you exactly when the chinese accounts were offline
Yes genius, they had no effect on the accounts whatsoever.. You can try and use a 3rd party estimate to verify your argument, but you have no clue what that estimate is based on.. IF it's based on gaming sources like Xfire play time, then YES, when the servers were temporary turned OFF, naturally the play time dropped, which would lead people to believe accounts were closed, then reopened.. which is far from the truth..
Good try on the strawman argument.. better luck next time..
Yes genius, they had no effect on the accounts whatsoever.. You can try and use a 3rd party estimate to verify your argument, but you have no clue what that estimate is based on.. IF it's based on gaming sources like Xfire play time, then YES, when the servers were temporary turned OFF, naturally the play time dropped, which would lead people to believe accounts were closed, then reopened.. which is far from the truth..
Good try on the strawman argument.. better luck next time..
Better luck? Why would I need more luck, when my former post trumped you're vague arguments? Do you even know where my image originates from?
Either you're trolling well, or you have a hard time explaining what you really mean.
When people can't connect to the game they want to play, because the servers are offline, the game is fricking offline. It's not "still kicking", even though everyone knows it's only temporary.
Originally posted by Rydeson Yes genius, they had no effect on the accounts whatsoever.. You can try and use a 3rd party estimate to verify your argument, but you have no clue what that estimate is based on.. IF it's based on gaming sources like Xfire play time, then YES, when the servers were temporary turned OFF, naturally the play time dropped, which would lead people to believe accounts were closed, then reopened.. which is far from the truth.. Good try on the strawman argument.. better luck next time..
Not quite right 'Genius'!
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
'Game room players' as the eastern player base would be described would be the ones that fluctuate more than others and if the servers were down for over a month then the sub drop off would be massive. This also does mean of course that any player that just logged in and played for five minutes in any given month would also be included, but then that really makes no odds because even monthly subbed accounts vary heavily in usage, so the "only played for 'x' amount of time argument is mute and to be honest any MMO running the same system counts them as well.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
FYI in case you don't know.. The average Euro player, which is about 25% of Blizzards sub numbers pays an average of 10 USD a month to play, while North America market pay the full 15 USD a month to play.. Blizzard only uses China for sub bragging numbers, it's why most western game companys could care less about China and do not even try to get into that market.. I'm confident that if Blizzard used the same subscription format for north america as they do for China you could get another 500k sub instantly, million if you tossed in Euro too.. BUT then their income would drop like a brick
To Mr Rydeson: The average cost to play Wow in EU is 13 Euro (26.99 Euro for a 2 month subs card).
That means the average cost to play in EU = 16.9 USD per month instead of 10 USD (like you claimed).
(1 EU = 1.3 USD).
China accounts only for 10% turnover, because Blizzard only gets a small % of the profits: the vast majority of direct profits goes to its China providor : Netease.
Accounts are considered non active when not actively played in the last 30 days in China (see Blizzard's definition on their website).
As long as their MMO accounts for more than 1 billion USD yearly, it tops the number 2, 3, 4, 5 MMo's worldwide combined.
I think the new guild leveling will add a new interesting twist to the game, certainly for its PvP side.
Originally posted by Claes Either you're trolling well, or you have a hard time explaining what you really mean.
Some people just seem to fall into a classic case of 'I have burned out so i will flame the game i used to love so much no matter what.' Some people loved the game so much, but somewhere along the line it all fell apart for them and now they seem to have a bitter streak against it, i mean when people used to post things like;
"I love the BC expansion.. I was fearful of buying it early on when my main character was only 55th level.. After speaking to a fellow gamer for some time I caved in.. I had convinced myself this expansion was going to be like EQ1's PoP expansion tailored for raiding guilds.. I was so wrong, when in fact this expansion was perfect IMO.. Everyone has a chance to access all parts of the game without needing to be in an elite raiding guild..
I hope Blizzard stays on course and continues to come out with good content.. I'm hoping for another expansion just as good as BC in a year or less.. I hope..
But each to their own at the end of the day, it is just a little sad to see someone always fall on the negative side no matter what evidence or positive arguments are put forward.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
FYI in case you don't know.. The average Euro player, which is about 25% of Blizzards sub numbers pays an average of 10 USD a month to play, while North America market pay the full 15 USD a month to play.. Blizzard only uses China for sub bragging numbers, it's why most western game companys could care less about China and do not even try to get into that market.. I'm confident that if Blizzard used the same subscription format for north america as they do for China you could get another 500k sub instantly, million if you tossed in Euro too.. BUT then their income would drop like a brick
To Mr Rydeson: The average cost to play Wow in EU is 13 Euro (26.99 Euro for a 2 month subs card).
That means the average cost to play in EU = 16.9 USD per month instead of 10 USD (like you claimed).
(1 EU = 1.3 USD).
China accounts only for 10% turnover, because Blizzard only gets a small % of the profits: the vast majority of direct profits goes to its China providor : Netease.
Accounts are considered non active when not actively played in the last 30 days in China (see Blizzard's definition on their website).
As long as their MMO accounts for more than 1 billion USD yearly, it tops the number 2, 3, 4, 5 MMo's worldwide combined.
I think the new guild leveling will add a new interesting twist to the game, certainly for its PvP side.
Isn't that classic.. because one of my friends hails in the UK and he pays 7 pounds per month.. which is what, about 11 USD? But then you are refering to a "game" card which is different? or the same? Not sure why a fellow guildie friend would lie about his subscription fee.. Do you?
Comments
woah, gotta catch ya there. are you honestly saying WoW isn't doing well? We all knew it would stop growing eventually, there is no way it could grow endlessly. however 30% of free trials joining is incredible. 30% retention for an MMO is mind blowing. look at Aion, WAR, CoH, Vanguard, AoC, Any of the AAA titles released in the last 5 years. the only one that even comes close to keeping 30% is Aion, and thats only because its still barely a year old.
I'm the first person to point out sub numbers don't make a good game. however they do point out a successful game, which WoW is by far the most successful MMO on the market... ever. If the other MMOs I played could hold onto 30% of their player base, I would be soooo happy. however the only MMO besides WoW to ever "grow" is EVE.
30% is good in baseball, 30% is freaking fantastic in MMO.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Do you know what it is 30% of though?? If it is 30% of 100 players a week for example, then yes i can see your point, but if several thousand a week are taking the trial up and 30% of those are staying then we have a different story don't we?
It is all a matter of scale when you work with percentages, although i will admit that those that tend to publish percentages usually do it to hide actual numbers, but as we don't have any numbers to relate that against it is a bit of a red herring either way.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
And 70% just don't like it..... I think that says a lot as well.. It was enough of a concern that Blizzard addressed it.. However, I suspect it will remain a 30% retention rate and nothing will change.. It reminds me of the podcast by Warcraft Outsiders talking about that Mr T commercial. Who were they trying to target with the Night Elf Mohawk commercial, Adults?.. hmmmmm
As a player that when playing WoW, tends to prefer smaller PvP guilds with goofy names for the sake of flavor - I will tell you that this absolutely does not affect my game playing at all. Hence, I don't care.
There won't be guilds with those kind of perks until after Cata guilds hit 85 anyways so any exp buffs are purely for the sake of alts imo.
Edit: Oh, and the 70% leave argument is retarded too - I probably started a game you loved and left it within a day or two as I have tried a lot of games. So really... any MMORPG with a trial is subject to those numbers - 30% is probably high for you fickle trolls anyways.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Yeah, because MR.T is an icon to children. So is William Shatner, Jean-Claude Vandam, Ozzy Ozbounre, etc.
These are icons of the 70's-80's.
Bout to say most people have no clue who they were besides mini me.
30% is the highest mmo retention rate out there btw.
Thank you for backing up my point
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Everything in any mmo has its flaws...There is not such thing as perfection when you have tens of thousands of players giving their opinion. Its just like the biggest myth in mmo gaming, class balance. There is no such thing. To have class balance you would have to have only one class. Even if the dev did all the math and thought about every eventuality, some people would still complain. The thing is that the avarage gamer does not have an overview of the whole mmo, he knows only a portion and that is not enough to judge what is or what isnt balanced, or what will or wont cause problems. Thats why even though I invest myself in the mmos I play I never take the game so serious that things, such as this Guild Leveling problem spoils the experiance for me. I say if the Pally is too strong to solo take a buddy, if thats not enough take two...thats it. To me every problem has a very simple solution. If you and your guild have a play to win mentaility and feel that you are leveling to slow becouse of the way you play, simply change things up...its alot easier and quicker than waiting for the dev to balance the game for you.
Hmm. lets see. WOW hit 11million subscribers, and then got cut off by the chinese gov't, which is the only reason they 'stalled' at 11 million. China is back online, Wrath is about to launch there, and Cata is about to launch in the USA. Expect to see 12 million soon. Servers are still full, and things such as PVP WG are still packed with players. On week nights, there are still servers with queues.
But even then, you are criticizing WOW for 'stalling' at 11million. How many games are even able to hold numbers after launch, let alone 6 years later? AOC sold 1 million boxes, and within 3 months was below 200k players. Warhammer has well under 100k subscribers. LOTRO and EQ2 fell apart and are going F2P after not being able to hold onto subscribers.
So as 'terrible' as you think WOW is, it is the only game that is holding subscribers, and then at 11 million ( almost 100 times as many players AOC, LOTRO and Warhammer)
Of course blizzard is improviing the leveling aspect of the game. As they say repeatedly, they have learned a lot about zone design and questing in the last 6 years, and anyone who has quested through BC and Wraith can tell you that.
This is an exciting expansion for many reasons. So many people are going to come back to see the revamp, players are going to reroll alts to see the new questlines that reference the earlier stuff. ( the CSI:miami quest in westfall haha).
I just find it hilarious that you make these posts about wow stalling when there isn't another game out there that can hold subscribers.
And back to the free-trial issue. You know, AOC, Warhammer, LOTRO et al have free trials and yet they are losing subscribers. I'm guessing they would be thrilled with a 30% retention rate for trial accounts.
So tell us, what game are you subscribed to that 'does it right'?
As far as the advertising is concerned, that is the exact market they are aiming for, the late 20's & 30's crowds. It has always been their customer base and why wouldn't you aim your advertising there??
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I dont even play WoW anymore, but I like it when Blizz at least tried to add new things to the game. Sure, it wont all be perfect at the start, but at least they try! Most companies sell all the boxed copies and then just try to trick you to stick around it seems nowdays.
Anyway, if people leave a smaller guild to join a bigger one so they can get the 'advantage', then its not a person I would want in my guild anyway. Smaller guilds are generally formed because they enjoy playing with EACHOTHER, not necessarily because of some advantage it gives them.
Currently I enjoy EQ2
It's far more a ROLE PLAYING MMO, then WoW is 
WoW used to be fun in the beginning in a casual way.. however I and many others got tired of it 
Sorry that seems to hurt your feelings.. I'm one of the 70% that do not find WoW enjoyable to pay to play. 
Now if WoW would make some MASSIVE changes.. lol
Have a great day
You'd make an excellent journalist for this inciteful and well researched post sir.
This is just another example of how ill informed your posts are.
LINK March 2009
LINK July 2009
LINK Nov 2009
Wow China spent a good deal of 2009 offline at various times as a result of issues with the chinese government and other issues.
You should read further into the post and see that links were provided.. lmao
You're not supposed to feed the trolls mate. Even though you are right.
WoW spent more time ON, then OFFline.. BTW genius.. Even when the servers went down because of WoW's violations to China regulations, the accounts NEVER CLOSED.. The on and off again drama had no effect on WoW sub numbers.. Do you know why? Because NO ONE in China pays a subscription fee, therefore Blizzard keeps all the China accounts OPEN indefinately unless the player themself "closes" the free account. China players only pay a pro-rate pay to play.. If a player in China plays zero hours this month, he/she pays NOTHING to Blizzard.. In fact the average player in China which is half of Blizzards 11 million 2008 number pays an average of a few US dollars a month to play, which is about 10% of Blizzards income.. VERIFIED by your own link..
FYI in case you don't know.. The average Euro player, which is about 25% of Blizzards sub numbers pays an average of 10 USD a month to play, while North America market pay the full 15 USD a month to play.. Blizzard only uses China for sub bragging numbers, it's why most western game companys could care less about China and do not even try to get into that market.. I'm confident that if Blizzard used the same subscription format for north america as they do for China you could get another 500k sub instantly, million if you tossed in Euro too.. BUT then their income would drop like a brick
Are you trying to say that since the accounts were never closed, the game still counts as being online, even though it was offline?
You're contradicting yourself here. Two posts ago, you told everyone in here that "the rest of the game was still alive and kicking".
Here's a chart showing you exactly when the chinese accounts were offline
Yes genius, they had no effect on the accounts whatsoever.. You can try and use a 3rd party estimate to verify your argument, but you have no clue what that estimate is based on.. IF it's based on gaming sources like Xfire play time, then YES, when the servers were temporary turned OFF, naturally the play time dropped, which would lead people to believe accounts were closed, then reopened.. which is far from the truth..
Good try on the strawman argument.. better luck next time..
Better luck? Why would I need more luck, when my former post trumped you're vague arguments? Do you even know where my image originates from?
Either you're trolling well, or you have a hard time explaining what you really mean.
When people can't connect to the game they want to play, because the servers are offline, the game is fricking offline. It's not "still kicking", even though everyone knows it's only temporary.
Not quite right 'Genius'!
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
'Game room players' as the eastern player base would be described would be the ones that fluctuate more than others and if the servers were down for over a month then the sub drop off would be massive. This also does mean of course that any player that just logged in and played for five minutes in any given month would also be included, but then that really makes no odds because even monthly subbed accounts vary heavily in usage, so the "only played for 'x' amount of time argument is mute and to be honest any MMO running the same system counts them as well.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
To Mr Rydeson: The average cost to play Wow in EU is 13 Euro (26.99 Euro for a 2 month subs card).
That means the average cost to play in EU = 16.9 USD per month instead of 10 USD (like you claimed).
(1 EU = 1.3 USD).
China accounts only for 10% turnover, because Blizzard only gets a small % of the profits: the vast majority of direct profits goes to its China providor : Netease.
Accounts are considered non active when not actively played in the last 30 days in China (see Blizzard's definition on their website).
As long as their MMO accounts for more than 1 billion USD yearly, it tops the number 2, 3, 4, 5 MMo's worldwide combined.
I think the new guild leveling will add a new interesting twist to the game, certainly for its PvP side.
Some people just seem to fall into a classic case of 'I have burned out so i will flame the game i used to love so much no matter what.' Some people loved the game so much, but somewhere along the line it all fell apart for them and now they seem to have a bitter streak against it, i mean when people used to post things like;
"I love the BC expansion.. I was fearful of buying it early on when my main character was only 55th level.. After speaking to a fellow gamer for some time I caved in.. I had convinced myself this expansion was going to be like EQ1's PoP expansion tailored for raiding guilds.. I was so wrong, when in fact this expansion was perfect IMO.. Everyone has a chance to access all parts of the game without needing to be in an elite raiding guild..
I hope Blizzard stays on course and continues to come out with good content.. I'm hoping for another expansion just as good as BC in a year or less.. I hope..
But each to their own at the end of the day, it is just a little sad to see someone always fall on the negative side no matter what evidence or positive arguments are put forward.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Isn't that classic.. because one of my friends hails in the UK and he pays 7 pounds per month.. which is what, about 11 USD? But then you are refering to a "game" card which is different? or the same? Not sure why a fellow guildie friend would lie about his subscription fee.. Do you?