Yeah well that is a wall in itself, I rather sit on my fat ass haha...
Yes, yes I understand what you are saying about it, I am sure I would of loved them to have the mechanic in the game but since they did not arguing and complaining about it wont mean they will fix it. While the Devs of Aion are changing it so you can swim the mechanic has to be present before hand or it will be quite a challenge to fix it after they have developed it. With FFXI it was not implemented and it did not get implemented, therefore SE will most likely go the same way with XIV. While this might mean it sucks that they do not have the feature I would say enjoy the rest of the game as it is and hope that they will make that change.
These things just show that SE believes jumping, swimming, or other standard MMO character control potential is overrated according to them hence limiting the ways your character can explore/navigate the terrain. Please tell me, please explain why it isn't a step back. GIve me one good reason.
For the longest time, fighting games like Street Fighter allowed you to move forwards, backwards, and jump up. Then Soul Calibur introduced a third dimension, letting you sidestep around your opponent. This year, even though the Soul Calibur series has been out for long enough to perfect 3D fighting, Capcom released Super Street Fighter IV, in which you can still only move forward, backwards, and jump. You can't still sidestep. Geez, what a step back, right?
No, it's not. The game feels and plays different. Even though there are obviously situations where it would be helpful to have the option to sidestep around an attack, you don't feel like you have to sidestep. When you're playing Soul Calibur, you take Soul Calibur's rules and physics into account. When you're playing Street Fighter, you take Street Fighter's rules and physics into account.
Originally posted by Xavierxx
Devs need to ask themselves "why not" instead of "why" to implementing more control aka good design choices.
More control is not necessarily a good design choice. As with many things, it depends on the game.
These things just show that SE believes jumping, swimming, or other standard MMO character control potential is overrated according to them hence limiting the ways your character can explore/navigate the terrain. Please tell me, please explain why it isn't a step back. GIve me one good reason.
For the longest time, fighting games like Street Fighter allowed you to move forwards, backwards, and jump up. Then Soul Calibur introduced a third dimension, letting you sidestep around your opponent. This year, even though the Soul Calibur series has been out for long enough to perfect 3D fighting, Capcom released Super Street Fighter IV, in which you can still only move forward, backwards, and jump. You can't still sidestep. Geez, what a step back, right?
No, it's not. The game feels and plays different. Even though there are obviously situations where it would be helpful to have the option to sidestep around an attack, you don't feel like you have to sidestep. When you're playing Soul Calibur, you take Soul Calibur's rules and physics into account. When you're playing Street Fighter, you take Street Fighter's rules and physics into account.
Originally posted by Xavierxx
Devs need to ask themselves "why not" instead of "why" to implementing more control aka good design choices.
More control is not necessarily a good design choice. As with many things, it depends on the game.
None of that still explains why you have to hit a invisible wall in the water in a game that has a strong focus on exploration. Fighting games already follow established game design and are not a good comparison here. If you want your next gen mmo to succedd then you need to meet the established set bars and possibly raise them. I'll keep pointing to our last AAA attempt of an MMO - Aion. It followed some established good MMORPG design while implimenting more control with flight on top of jumping (present in just about every AAA MMORPG to come out before it). At the same time, they took away the ablitiy to swim (present in just about every AAA MMORPG to come out before it). Now why did they not imliment the feature? Either they didn't see a reason to at the time or couldn't impliment it in time for launch? I don't know but now they are working on swimming... Why? Becuase Aion players ended up wanting it (gee I wonder why). So they are making it happen and giving players a reason to explore the bodies of water. And that sound likes a good game design choice to me. GW 2 will also have swimming and a reason to do it as well from launch = MMORPG bars met/raised. Maybe its like releasing a car racing game w/o the ability to drift (present in every car racing game). LIke the devs say drifting is over rated control feature and players can still win the race w/o it....
The point is its just rediculous in a game nowadays for you not to be able to jump or swim.Its about immersion. Whether it has any purpose or not, it feels nice when you have full control of your character. And how does it kill immersion? Are you serious? Hmm i wonder how being rooted to the ground 24/7 and running smack into an invisible wall whenever you hit water could kill immersion...
no final fantasy game has swiming or jumping get that threw your head the ff mmos are Fianl fantasy games FIRST and MMOS second.
if you dont like it go play all the other mmos that let you jump like a damn monkey. in ffxi your eally didnt hit a wall you could stillw lak in the water that you could get to but must water was below where you could wlak so you just get stuck on the edges instead.
like this i guess 7--- top of the 7 is the ground the middle is the water
in the dunes there was a way to get itnot he water and go around the cliff tot he other side while you was under water
The point is its just rediculous in a game nowadays for you not to be able to jump or swim.Its about immersion. Whether it has any purpose or not, it feels nice when you have full control of your character. And how does it kill immersion? Are you serious? Hmm i wonder how being rooted to the ground 24/7 and running smack into an invisible wall whenever you hit water could kill immersion...
no final fantasy game has swiming or jumping get that threw your head the ff mmos are Fianl fantasy games FIRST and MMOS second.
if you dont like it go play all the other mmos that let you jump like a damn monkey. in ffxi your eally didnt hit a wall you could stillw lak in the water that you could get to but must water was below where you could wlak so you just get stuck on the edges instead.
like this i guess 7--- top of the 7 is the ground the middle is the water
in the dunes there was a way to get itnot he water and go around the cliff tot he other side while you was under water
you not play many ff games?
I guess he doesn't count FFX or XII.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
None of that still explains why you have to hit a invisible wall in the water in a game that has a strong focus on exploration.
If FFXIV's big draw was that it had a strong focus on exploration, I'd agree with you. But it really isn't.
Fighting games already follow established game design and are not a good comparison here.
How so? The two games I gave as examples differ quite a bit from one another, and are both very much unlike BlazBlue, Smash Bros, and MvC. If there is an established design for a good fighting game, it's broken by almost every fighting game out there.
If you want your next gen mmo to succedd then you need to meet the established set bars and possibly raise them. I'll keep pointing to our last AAA attempt of an MMO - Aion. It followed some established good MMORPG design while implimenting more control with flight on top of jumping (present in just about every AAA MMORPG to come out before it).
And I enjoyed the flying very much. However, I disagree that it "raised the bar". Gliding, flight, and mid-air combat are not something that I expect to see in every MMO from now on just because I enjoyed doing it in Aion.
At the same time, they took away the ablitiy to swim (present in just about every AAA MMORPG to come out before it). Now why did they not imliment the feature? Either they didn't see a reason to at the time or couldn't impliment it in time for launch? I don't know but now they are working on swimming... Why? Becuase Aion players ended up wanting it (gee I wonder why).
For what it's worth, the main reason that I left Aion was because I disliked how willing NCSoft was to change the game in response to complaints from players.
Maybe its like releasing a car racing game w/o the ability to drift (present in every car racing game). LIke the devs say drifting is over rated control feature and players can still win the race w/o it....
Um, actually I consider that a good example of why convention should be broken!
I will state first that I hate not being able to jump. It's almost as bad as Duke Nukem or Doom and no y-axis movement. Its one of the reasons I didn't like Guild Wars ultimately. Its not really about NEEDING to jump or swim, but more just having the freedom to do so. Regardless of whether or not gameplay is affected by including these elements, it adds choice which has been the main principal of MMO's from the beginning. If the only good jumping would ever do is allow players to avoid taking a flight of stairs, or to jump off a cliff to their death, then they should be able to do it. If I want to walk into water wearing full-plate and drown then I should be able to as well. Immersion in these types of games comes from including things that appear almost irrelevent and unnecessary. ala jumping/swimming. It's like the difference between living in a box with no option to leave, and living in a box with the option to leave even if you don't necessarily want to. Its a change in mentality for the player. It doesn't matter how useful it is or isn't, it should be up the player to decide, not the designer. Overall, I really think its just lazy designing. However, if the gameplay is strong enough otherwise, I would still consider giving it a shot. It's just sad and annoying actually. In a single player game - ok. In an MMO - annoying.
If you want your next gen mmo to succedd then you need to meet the established set bars and possibly raise them. I'll keep pointing to our last AAA attempt of an MMO - Aion. It followed some established good MMORPG design while implimenting more control with flight on top of jumping (present in just about every AAA MMORPG to come out before it).
And I enjoyed the flying very much. However, I disagree that it "raised the bar". Gliding, flight, and mid-air combat are not something that I expect to see in every MMO from now on just because I enjoyed doing it in Aion.
..
I agree with X here. Honestly Coh and CO both have vastly superior flying .. its not even close. Aions flight was weak, very weak. The sad thignw as it hurt its end game pvp.
Aion itself have bad movement system, stuff jumped around, and the fluid control of a character was like that of war ... just weak.
And while i can't say Ff14 will follow this the videos i have seen look ratehr poor in combat and movement. Swimning and no jumping follow in thsi direction.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I melt in water I am like the wicked witch of the west ok... so yes water scares me, besides I believe in concervation so I use very little water. But that is neither here nor there, and you are wrong, I do not believe that a person is of a certain age if they diagree with what I have to say at all. People regarless of age, could be 5 or 100 will still believe that this whole thing about no swiming and jumping is backwards and that the game will not work with out it or that it will do poorly because those mechanics are not in at all. So not about age/sex/reglion or any other thing, they have an opinion and so do I, if I disagree with them on certain points I will say that I do.
So since you believe that I am a fanboi and immature I must be what 12 or something a kid right cause normally that is what I see when I see immature, am I right?
I love that they are keeping the no jumping or swimming set up.
1. It keeps the Final Fantasy feel and I believe that this game (as well as 11) are meant to be Final Fantasy games before MMO's.
2. They aren't going to conform.
Good stuff SE.
Originally posted by Scagweed22 is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
I always liked it when any sort of video game allowed me to explore the x, the y, and the z axis'. But I've played a lot of video games that lacked one or two of those and had a great time. It'll come down to combat mechnics and if the world of FFXIV can keep us there. I can honestly say I liked some things in XI (like showing off a fashionable hat) as a mission, but I didn't like it for reasons that bunny hopping or a recreational dip in the lagoon had nothing to do with.
If it detracts from your experience, then avoid the game. Or try it and see if you can cope.
I'm going to try it because the only thing I like about MMOs is bringing me there. My pals.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
There are games that have basketball in them, is this game a step backwards because it doesnt?
I think you know the answer to this........
It's just not a focus of the content, it doesnt make it a step backwards.
Yet another bad comparison. Your missing my point here. Basketball games follow established game design, it's all just iimproved upon with each new AAA tittle release just as every previous new AAA MMO title has done so. Do I have to name them here? Have the FF14 devs seen any previous title? Jumping, swimming, navigating the long repetitive terrains with speed and ease, and just exploration in general has been a huge focus of these MMO games. Why is it that the latest one doesn't even integrate a feature that has not only been present, but even improved upon to some degree in most previous MMOs to date. Have you never noticed that in most MMO games you purchase mounts to get around quicker? Its been a barely-improved-upon standard design with the exception of a few newer MMOs like Aion.
They integrated flight mechanics. It helps players navigate the terrains easier and it's intuitive. It is an improvement on the standard design. Ill say it again. SE should ask themselves "why not" instead of "why" if they ever discuss the feature. And I am probably going to be right about this post launch. The feature will be saught after by many players and they will eventually see that there is a demand for these standard explorative features just how the Aion devs eventually got to work on the feature post launch.
Okay Tanaka should atleast take a short look at just about any previous AAA MMO and take a hint. The boundaries in them suck. And sure, FF11 didn't have it and maybe it was okay. Then... Which was a long time ago cmon guys its 2010 let me jump with space bar and go in the freaking water stop putting walls in my face or iron boots on my feet.
There are games that have basketball in them, is this game a step backwards because it doesnt?
I think you know the answer to this........
It's just not a focus of the content, it doesnt make it a step backwards.
Yet another bad comparison. Your missing my point here. Basketball games follow established game design, it's all just iimproved upon with each new AAA tittle release, just as every previous new AAA title has done so. Do I have to name them here? Have the FF14 devs seen any previous title? Jumping, swimming, navigating the long repetitive terrains with speed and ease, and just exploration in general has been a huge focus of these MMO games. Why is it that the latest one doesn't even integrate a feature that has not only been present, but even improved upon to some degree in most previous MMO to date. Have you never noticed that that most MMO games let you purchase mounts to get around quicker? Its been a barely-improved-upon standard design with the exception of a few newer MMOs like Aion.
They integrated flight mechanics. It helps players navigate the terrains easier and it's intuitive. It is an improvement on the standard design. Ill say it again. SE should ask themselves "why not" instead of "why" if they ever discuss the feature. And I am probably going to be right about this post launch. The feature will be saught after by many players and they will eventually see that there is a demand for these standard explorative features just how the Aion devs eventually got to work on the feature post launch.
Okay Tanaka should atleast take a short look at just about any previous AAA MMO and take a hint. The boundaries in them suck.
Your entire argument is moot. The game is not based off other MMO's, it's based off the Final Fantasy franchise. I can't think of any game that allowed you to swim or jump.
It's understandable to want familiar features in other games, but bitching that a game doesn't have something you feel is necessary out of design decision is just stupid and childish. And to your point that there will be such demand to add in jumping/swimming; there have been whiners for years in FFXI about this very thing and they held firm to their design.
If it's that bad that you won't even consider playing the game, then you were never interested in or following FFXIV to begin with. Not every game should be copies of others, just because it works in that particular setting.
I was playing aion from day 1 and I still have my account like 8 months in now but im putting it down. Swimming would be the last complaint an aion player had over CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT!!!! It can not ne emphasized enough how important content is above everything else. Even if the engine allows you to swim for hours its pointless if nothing is out there. You should be much more worried about having things to do in game because several hours of swimming gets old very fast. As far as aion goes no they wont implement it just because the players want it NC Soft is notorious for just feeding the players what they feel they should have. They never promised swimming they just tossed a video out of players doing things they cant do in the game and just showed off some of what you can do with cryengine1. SE is great with content and they know it. So what if you cant jump or swim atleast you wont get bored and the gameplay will be new and fresh and not some wow clone.
Actually im gonna edit this some more cause im gonna rant on this one. 2 50 toons in aion and heres the truth never compare it any other game trying to point out flaws its just unfair. Aion flight:=bad ground combat = bad PVP=really bad Content=weak Class balance = lol what balance swimming = dont have it jumping = one side has clear advantage questing=what a joke the grind is the quest. Its a pretty game but when you get down to it there is just not enuogh heart and the thing it misses the most the thing that makes it uncomparable to any FF is that there is no reall player community and they never even strived for it. Dont give SE sh*t over something as small as jumping clap you hands that they arent just gonna tosss a gimick in this game to get you to play and are gonna try something new. Comparing SE and NCsoft is really wrong. GW is arena net and those guys are awesome but anybody that knows NCSoft knows after L2 NC Soft made a major statement about themselves. The guys that played Aion from jump street know it too. wetern players have nearly 0 voice and even if they were heard no1 really gives a crap. Give SE a break last time I checked compared to their peers blizzard (bends over and compromises difficulty for popularity) & NCsoft (publishes great games made by other guys but messes up anything in house) they keep their fanbase happy and don't just copy what some1 else is doing. Rant Over.
Your entire argument is moot. The game is not based off other MMO's, it's based off the Final Fantasy franchise. I can't think of any game that allowed you to swim or jump.
Umm, Final Fantasy X and XII?
Not every game should be copies of others, just because it works in that particular setting.
Yet Final Fantasy XIV is pretty much a copy of FFXI with a few small changes.
Personally, I wish Square would have had as much creativity with their mmo as they did their single player games.
Blitzball, anyone?
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
i think its good he hasnt played any other games he wotn be copying them. like all the WoW clones
Like I said, I think that it's a good thing he hasn't played any other games. Keeps FF14 more original. The game is very superb in many ways and I will be picking it up. But at the same time. I feel that the fact that he hasn't is also bad in some ways. But, if he is aware of what's out there and what's going to be out there soon (Guild Wars 2 awesome swimming implimentation, Aion's as well, existing top AAA MMOs, and the fact that theres a demand for less boundaries in general when it comes to any MMO regardless) then none of that is any indication or influence on these devs minds????
Serious question: Do you really believe Tanaka, or anyone else on the FFXIV dev team, is not aware other MMOs have swimming and/or jumping?
SE *are* influenced by other MMOs out there in different ways. I know they cited AoC as one game they were looking at during the design of FFXIV... a game that has swimming.
Just because he isn't playing the games personally doesn't mean he's not aware of what mechanics they have.
Swimming and Jumping are two things that SE obviously felt were not necessary for FFXIV - at least at this time. Who knows what they might plan for down the road, though? If they have plans for sub-aquatic environments, then swimming would be a very likely addition at some later date. As of now, they've decided it just doesn't warrant the time and man-power to implement it, just so people can swim around "just because".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
They integrated flight mechanics. It helps players navigate the terrains easier and it's intuitive. It is an improvement on the standard design. Ill say it again. SE should ask themselves "why not" instead of "why" if they ever discuss the feature.
You keep hammering home this point about "why not" instead of "why". For everything that some other MMOs do, you say that devs should say "why not put that in our game?". This is an inherantly bad design philosophy because it inevitably leads to scope creep. One of the feature articles on MMORPG.com a few months ago (I think it was by Scott Jennings) discussed scope creep and why it's so deadly for MMOs.
I'm not saying that FFXIV would be doomed if they said "why not" and implemented jumping. t's just that the reasons they have given—"you won't need to jump"—are good enough. I don't believe for a second that games where you have more total control over your character are necessarily better games.
As for the basketball comment, I direct you again to what I said about fighting games. I can believe that basketball games and racing games have an unchanging list of standard features that devs cannot deviate from. Both are unbearably dull genres that I literally have not played since NBA Jam and Top Gear on the SNES. For fighting games, it just ain't true, sister. There are tons of features that are present in a handful of excellent titles but are not present in other, more recent, more popular titles. And those features are not missed!
Comments
Yeah well that is a wall in itself, I rather sit on my fat ass haha...
Yes, yes I understand what you are saying about it, I am sure I would of loved them to have the mechanic in the game but since they did not arguing and complaining about it wont mean they will fix it. While the Devs of Aion are changing it so you can swim the mechanic has to be present before hand or it will be quite a challenge to fix it after they have developed it. With FFXI it was not implemented and it did not get implemented, therefore SE will most likely go the same way with XIV. While this might mean it sucks that they do not have the feature I would say enjoy the rest of the game as it is and hope that they will make that change.
For the longest time, fighting games like Street Fighter allowed you to move forwards, backwards, and jump up. Then Soul Calibur introduced a third dimension, letting you sidestep around your opponent. This year, even though the Soul Calibur series has been out for long enough to perfect 3D fighting, Capcom released Super Street Fighter IV, in which you can still only move forward, backwards, and jump. You can't still sidestep. Geez, what a step back, right?
No, it's not. The game feels and plays different. Even though there are obviously situations where it would be helpful to have the option to sidestep around an attack, you don't feel like you have to sidestep. When you're playing Soul Calibur, you take Soul Calibur's rules and physics into account. When you're playing Street Fighter, you take Street Fighter's rules and physics into account.
More control is not necessarily a good design choice. As with many things, it depends on the game.
None of that still explains why you have to hit a invisible wall in the water in a game that has a strong focus on exploration. Fighting games already follow established game design and are not a good comparison here. If you want your next gen mmo to succedd then you need to meet the established set bars and possibly raise them. I'll keep pointing to our last AAA attempt of an MMO - Aion. It followed some established good MMORPG design while implimenting more control with flight on top of jumping (present in just about every AAA MMORPG to come out before it). At the same time, they took away the ablitiy to swim (present in just about every AAA MMORPG to come out before it). Now why did they not imliment the feature? Either they didn't see a reason to at the time or couldn't impliment it in time for launch? I don't know but now they are working on swimming... Why? Becuase Aion players ended up wanting it (gee I wonder why). So they are making it happen and giving players a reason to explore the bodies of water. And that sound likes a good game design choice to me. GW 2 will also have swimming and a reason to do it as well from launch = MMORPG bars met/raised. Maybe its like releasing a car racing game w/o the ability to drift (present in every car racing game). LIke the devs say drifting is over rated control feature and players can still win the race w/o it....
you not play many ff games?
"why not implement 4 expansions worth of content for release"
It's a good design choice hurr durr
I guess he doesn't count FFX or XII.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I will state first that I hate not being able to jump. It's almost as bad as Duke Nukem or Doom and no y-axis movement. Its one of the reasons I didn't like Guild Wars ultimately. Its not really about NEEDING to jump or swim, but more just having the freedom to do so. Regardless of whether or not gameplay is affected by including these elements, it adds choice which has been the main principal of MMO's from the beginning. If the only good jumping would ever do is allow players to avoid taking a flight of stairs, or to jump off a cliff to their death, then they should be able to do it. If I want to walk into water wearing full-plate and drown then I should be able to as well. Immersion in these types of games comes from including things that appear almost irrelevent and unnecessary. ala jumping/swimming. It's like the difference between living in a box with no option to leave, and living in a box with the option to leave even if you don't necessarily want to. Its a change in mentality for the player. It doesn't matter how useful it is or isn't, it should be up the player to decide, not the designer. Overall, I really think its just lazy designing. However, if the gameplay is strong enough otherwise, I would still consider giving it a shot. It's just sad and annoying actually. In a single player game - ok. In an MMO - annoying.
You always hear complaints about water being used as a boundary, but never mountains.
With as open as zones already appear to be in the game, does it honestly matter if they enable swimming or not?
A wall is a wall, personally I think staring over a lake/ocean boundary is at least prettier than a bland mountain side.
I agree with X here. Honestly Coh and CO both have vastly superior flying .. its not even close. Aions flight was weak, very weak. The sad thignw as it hurt its end game pvp.
Aion itself have bad movement system, stuff jumped around, and the fluid control of a character was like that of war ... just weak.
And while i can't say Ff14 will follow this the videos i have seen look ratehr poor in combat and movement. Swimning and no jumping follow in thsi direction.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
You guys are funny.... "if you don't like it don't play!"
......and people won't. We've seen so many MMO's come out that flop and you guys still throw that line around?
From what I've seen on these forums most of the FFXIV fanbois are extremely immature. If someone disagrees with you they must be a kid am I right? lol
No jumping no swimming... here comes FFXIV - Aion Edition w/o Wings & Jumping.
PS- I'm a hero... but water scurs me.
I melt in water I am like the wicked witch of the west ok... so yes water scares me, besides I believe in concervation so I use very little water. But that is neither here nor there, and you are wrong, I do not believe that a person is of a certain age if they diagree with what I have to say at all. People regarless of age, could be 5 or 100 will still believe that this whole thing about no swiming and jumping is backwards and that the game will not work with out it or that it will do poorly because those mechanics are not in at all. So not about age/sex/reglion or any other thing, they have an opinion and so do I, if I disagree with them on certain points I will say that I do.
So since you believe that I am a fanboi and immature I must be what 12 or something a kid right cause normally that is what I see when I see immature, am I right?
I love that they are keeping the no jumping or swimming set up.
1. It keeps the Final Fantasy feel and I believe that this game (as well as 11) are meant to be Final Fantasy games before MMO's.
2. They aren't going to conform.
Good stuff SE.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
I always liked it when any sort of video game allowed me to explore the x, the y, and the z axis'. But I've played a lot of video games that lacked one or two of those and had a great time. It'll come down to combat mechnics and if the world of FFXIV can keep us there. I can honestly say I liked some things in XI (like showing off a fashionable hat) as a mission, but I didn't like it for reasons that bunny hopping or a recreational dip in the lagoon had nothing to do with.
If it detracts from your experience, then avoid the game. Or try it and see if you can cope.
I'm going to try it because the only thing I like about MMOs is bringing me there. My pals.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Wanna swim? http://swimming.freeonlinegames.name/
No monthly sub required.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
There are games that have basketball in them, is this game a step backwards because it doesnt?
I think you know the answer to this........
It's just not a focus of the content, it doesnt make it a step backwards.
Yet another bad comparison. Your missing my point here. Basketball games follow established game design, it's all just iimproved upon with each new AAA tittle release just as every previous new AAA MMO title has done so. Do I have to name them here? Have the FF14 devs seen any previous title? Jumping, swimming, navigating the long repetitive terrains with speed and ease, and just exploration in general has been a huge focus of these MMO games. Why is it that the latest one doesn't even integrate a feature that has not only been present, but even improved upon to some degree in most previous MMOs to date. Have you never noticed that in most MMO games you purchase mounts to get around quicker? Its been a barely-improved-upon standard design with the exception of a few newer MMOs like Aion.
They integrated flight mechanics. It helps players navigate the terrains easier and it's intuitive. It is an improvement on the standard design. Ill say it again. SE should ask themselves "why not" instead of "why" if they ever discuss the feature. And I am probably going to be right about this post launch. The feature will be saught after by many players and they will eventually see that there is a demand for these standard explorative features just how the Aion devs eventually got to work on the feature post launch.
Okay Tanaka should atleast take a short look at just about any previous AAA MMO and take a hint. The boundaries in them suck. And sure, FF11 didn't have it and maybe it was okay. Then... Which was a long time ago cmon guys its 2010 let me jump with space bar and go in the freaking water stop putting walls in my face or iron boots on my feet.
Your entire argument is moot. The game is not based off other MMO's, it's based off the Final Fantasy franchise. I can't think of any game that allowed you to swim or jump.
It's understandable to want familiar features in other games, but bitching that a game doesn't have something you feel is necessary out of design decision is just stupid and childish. And to your point that there will be such demand to add in jumping/swimming; there have been whiners for years in FFXI about this very thing and they held firm to their design.
If it's that bad that you won't even consider playing the game, then you were never interested in or following FFXIV to begin with. Not every game should be copies of others, just because it works in that particular setting.
To the OP
I was playing aion from day 1 and I still have my account like 8 months in now but im putting it down. Swimming would be the last complaint an aion player had over CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT!!!! It can not ne emphasized enough how important content is above everything else. Even if the engine allows you to swim for hours its pointless if nothing is out there. You should be much more worried about having things to do in game because several hours of swimming gets old very fast. As far as aion goes no they wont implement it just because the players want it NC Soft is notorious for just feeding the players what they feel they should have. They never promised swimming they just tossed a video out of players doing things they cant do in the game and just showed off some of what you can do with cryengine1. SE is great with content and they know it. So what if you cant jump or swim atleast you wont get bored and the gameplay will be new and fresh and not some wow clone.
Actually im gonna edit this some more cause im gonna rant on this one. 2 50 toons in aion and heres the truth never compare it any other game trying to point out flaws its just unfair. Aion flight:=bad ground combat = bad PVP=really bad Content=weak Class balance = lol what balance swimming = dont have it jumping = one side has clear advantage questing=what a joke the grind is the quest. Its a pretty game but when you get down to it there is just not enuogh heart and the thing it misses the most the thing that makes it uncomparable to any FF is that there is no reall player community and they never even strived for it. Dont give SE sh*t over something as small as jumping clap you hands that they arent just gonna tosss a gimick in this game to get you to play and are gonna try something new. Comparing SE and NCsoft is really wrong. GW is arena net and those guys are awesome but anybody that knows NCSoft knows after L2 NC Soft made a major statement about themselves. The guys that played Aion from jump street know it too. wetern players have nearly 0 voice and even if they were heard no1 really gives a crap. Give SE a break last time I checked compared to their peers blizzard (bends over and compromises difficulty for popularity) & NCsoft (publishes great games made by other guys but messes up anything in house) they keep their fanbase happy and don't just copy what some1 else is doing. Rant Over.
Personally, I wish Square would have had as much creativity with their mmo as they did their single player games.
Blitzball, anyone?
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Serious question: Do you really believe Tanaka, or anyone else on the FFXIV dev team, is not aware other MMOs have swimming and/or jumping?
SE *are* influenced by other MMOs out there in different ways. I know they cited AoC as one game they were looking at during the design of FFXIV... a game that has swimming.
Just because he isn't playing the games personally doesn't mean he's not aware of what mechanics they have.
Swimming and Jumping are two things that SE obviously felt were not necessary for FFXIV - at least at this time. Who knows what they might plan for down the road, though? If they have plans for sub-aquatic environments, then swimming would be a very likely addition at some later date. As of now, they've decided it just doesn't warrant the time and man-power to implement it, just so people can swim around "just because".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I have played WoW, FFXI, AoC, Warhammer, Allods, Aion, LoTRO.
I can honestly say that FFXI was the most immersive out of all them. FFXI didn't have jumping or swimming.
Go Figure.
You keep hammering home this point about "why not" instead of "why". For everything that some other MMOs do, you say that devs should say "why not put that in our game?". This is an inherantly bad design philosophy because it inevitably leads to scope creep. One of the feature articles on MMORPG.com a few months ago (I think it was by Scott Jennings) discussed scope creep and why it's so deadly for MMOs.
I'm not saying that FFXIV would be doomed if they said "why not" and implemented jumping. t's just that the reasons they have given—"you won't need to jump"—are good enough. I don't believe for a second that games where you have more total control over your character are necessarily better games.
As for the basketball comment, I direct you again to what I said about fighting games. I can believe that basketball games and racing games have an unchanging list of standard features that devs cannot deviate from. Both are unbearably dull genres that I literally have not played since NBA Jam and Top Gear on the SNES. For fighting games, it just ain't true, sister. There are tons of features that are present in a handful of excellent titles but are not present in other, more recent, more popular titles. And those features are not missed!
They need to fix the shitty controls first, before looking remotely into something else.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.