Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

LOTRO Adds servers

124

Comments

  • MMOrUSMMOrUS Member Posts: 414

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Oddly for a dieing game (sarcasm), they are adding more servers for the FTP change. IIRCC, LOTRO has never closed a server.

    Anyway, now is your chance to help them pick a name. I don't vote for anything I can't pronounce.

    Yea, I guess that adding new servers has nothing to do with the influx of the F2P gamers who will be checking it out and most certainly is the sign of a vibrant thriving game and dispells any thought that even though the game is going F2P it is and always has been healthy! (sarcasm)

    And Btw, there are a couple of ghost town servers in the US that should of been merged long ago.

     

    People will spin this in the best possible light they can because they can not face the realities of the "hows and whys" that Lotro has ended up on the same scrap pile as the rest of the F2P fodder.

     Captain bloomin obvious, even without the sarcasm.

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    Originally posted by Philby

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth


    Originally posted by Philby


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Philby.

    Do you work for NPD?

    No, do you work for Turbine? See how stupid questions breed stupid questions?

    So you admit, you have no idea what you are talking about then.

    Why is it you do not beleave the NPD report?

    Where is your insight?

    The NPD is nothing but a pole in which you took a number, 8%, and transformed it into something you want to believe. This has been pointed out to you but you refuse accept the numbers for what they are. No one is denying that F2P saved DDO but to say it transformed it into giant among games is just ludicrous. 500% increase in revenue is a good thing for Turbine, but considering the state of DDO before the model change this number also sounds a lot better than what it actually is.

    The 8% is a diffrent article.

     

    The NPD article is a industry research firm that does market analisis that has DDO as #3, they sell this data to companies.

    How is it you know more than they do?

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    Originally posted by Redline65

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Feel free to buy the NPD report yourself.

     

    You are in denial.

    I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that a survey of 19,000 players by NPD came up with DDO as the #3 MMO. Six months ago. But how accurate is a survey of 19,000 people in determining what the #3 MMO really is? It's not a very large sample size at all. But I guess it's the best "FACT" we have to go on since Turbine doesn't release sub numbers.

    Business operate in quarters. Its accurate enough that bisnesses use data like this allthe time to study trends.

     

    Warner Interactive President Martin Tremblay told the interviewer that DDO has 8% of the market, and that that data, and the NPD data was part of why they aquired Trubine.

    Forum users know more than the man who invested missions in an aquisition based on data?

     

    Ok,


    Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited News - Third Most Popular MMO Says NPD

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by cyphers

    I don't know exactly what the proving point was of this post - haven't read the whole thread - but I recall the 8% too from the survey, I even had the link to the info in one of my posts. As far as I recall it was based upon the American market though, the same applies to the 8% share of DDO. The same survey mentioned WoW having a 30% share of MMO gamers playing it.

     

    About the DDO numbers, I thought that was accounts being  created that was 1 million+, not so much active monthly players. Regarding the servers, I thought the number was more like 25,000-30,000 accounts on average per server. I know AoC for its Korean betatest had only 7 servers to facilitate 200,00-250,000 beta testers.

    A good other verification would be the number of Aion servers at the launch last September and then compare with the number of boxes sold in that time.

    I was trying to show how LOTRO and WoW servers share similar structures and support the same number of players.  If either was tripled in population it would overwhelm the landmass, regardless of how great the instancing technology is.  Technology can't make up for crowding in the common areas which would happen.  Sort of disputing the "everyone is in instances" claims that people think make sense.  Similar applied to DDO.

    As for the 8%, I'm not disputing that NPD did a survey and 8% of their participants said they play ddo.  However nowhere in the article does it say 8% of the entire market or the survey was only for america (no offense). 

    There are far to many big games missing from that list for it to be representative of the entire mmo market.  Everquest, Everquest2, Star trek online, etc.  Even free realms and wizard 101, which both broke 10 million players siging up for their games (as compared to DDO's 1 million) are strangely missing from the list.  Obviously the list cannot represent the entire market, because there are several games that are 10 times larger than DDO missing. 

     

    Lastly, you are right that the DDO 1 million press release was just about accounts created and not subscribers.  That was part of the point I was making.  Turbine did brag about numbers when they could be painted in a positive manner.  Free to play games are always claiming millions and millions, but do not seem to have the number of servers to support those sized player bases. 

     

     

     

     

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    You are confusing things. #3 and 8% are from two different things.
     
    Also, DDO's common areas are also instanced.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Originally posted by Philby


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth


    Originally posted by Philby


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Philby.

    Do you work for NPD?

    No, do you work for Turbine? See how stupid questions breed stupid questions?

    So you admit, you have no idea what you are talking about then.

    Why is it you do not beleave the NPD report?

    Where is your insight?

    The NPD is nothing but a pole in which you took a number, 8%, and transformed it into something you want to believe. This has been pointed out to you but you refuse accept the numbers for what they are. No one is denying that F2P saved DDO but to say it transformed it into giant among games is just ludicrous. 500% increase in revenue is a good thing for Turbine, but considering the state of DDO before the model change this number also sounds a lot better than what it actually is.

    The 8% is a diffrent article.

     

    The NPD article is a industry research firm that does market analisis that has DDO as #3, they sell this data to companies.

    How is it you know more than they do?

    NPD specifically said it was 8% of their participants and not 8% of the total market.  Unless you have a link to them specifically saying total market then you are infering a conclusion that was not said. 

     

    You can link to the president of warner or articles from mmo blog sites all you want, but that doesn't show NPD to have made that specific claim.

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    Wow, you just can't admit that you do not agree with there findings because it doesn't fit your view, and no other reason, can you?

    NPD report says DDO is #3.

    Present of WB says their research found that DDO is 8% of the market, with 13% total for turbine, hence why they bought them.

    You keep mixing everything up. I also linked the artile that was listed here, on this site, where people did just what you are doing. "I play X, so this cant be true".

    Anyway, guess what. LOTRO is adding more servers.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648

    When a game is F2P, the number of players becomes less relevant to the number of dollars coming in. I mean seriously, 100 DDO players that don't pay a dime for the game does not equal even 1 P2P sub player. LOTRO wasn't dying before they went F2P, but subs were dropping. It's only a matter of time for us to find out if their new scheme works or not. And that scheme working won't be dependent on the number of F2P players, but the number of players they grab that do pay al carte or sub.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    When a game is F2P, the number of players becomes less relevant to the number of dollars coming in. I mean seriously, 100 DDO players that don't pay a dime for the game does not equal even 1 P2P sub player. LOTRO wasn't dying before they went F2P, but subs were dropping. It's only a matter of time for us to find out if their new scheme works or not. And that scheme working won't be dependent on the number of F2P players, but the number of players they grab that do pay al carte or sub.

    Very true, its sad though, that this seems to upset people.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by junzo316

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    It doesn't upset me and there is no need to try to make my presentation of information as being something personal. 

    I think DDO has found success after changing to free to play.  I think LOTRO is one of the more successful games in the market, but is making the change as it has entered into a period of decline.  Neither of which mean I hate the games, don't play them or plan on playing when they move to f2p.

    As for your industry research firm, please tell me exactly where it says DDO is 8% of the total market.  Lets just start right there ok? 

     

     

    I choose tookland.

    Do you have proof of this statement?  Or is it just more baseless "facts" thrown around on these forums?  The facts are that LotRO has never closed a server, and is now opening a new server.  If it were in decline, wouldn't they just use the so called "dead" servers that they currently have instead of opening new ones?  My belief, from these simple facts, is that LotRO wasn't in decline and that they are expecting even more people with the F2P change.  Great news indeed.

    No I don't have proof, that is why I presented that statement as my opinion.  That is why I began the sentence with "I think".  

    Sorry if that was confusing as it wasn't my intention.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Wow, you just can't admit that you do not agree with there findings because it doesn't fit your view, and no other reason, can you?

    NPD report says DDO is #3.

    Present of WB says their research found that DDO is 8% of the market, with 13% total for turbine, hence why they bought them.

    You keep mixing everything up. I also linked the artile that was listed here, on this site, where people did just what you are doing. "I play X, so this cant be true".

    Anyway, guess what. LOTRO is adding more servers.

    NPD reported the DDO was number 3 among their survey group.  Nothing more was said beyond that.  No where did they say "8% of the mmo marketplace" as you keep inferring.  

    It is painfully clear that you just cannot comprehend what is being stated and choose to replace fact with your own version of what has been said or how you want it to read. 

    For example the president of warner is talking specifically about the NPD survey and NOT their own internal research.  No where did the president say their research came up with those numbers and he is directly answering the question of "

    Have you seen the NPD numbers?".   The president of warner took that information and presented it as marketshare much like you are doing. 

     

    I play DDO, so please stop trying to make this about my personal beliefs. 

     

     

     

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Fact is, LOTRO is the third largest MMO in the west right behind DDO and WOW. Its now poised to be even stronger with with the addition of a F2P option, as well as keeping the P2P. People seem to forget, the game is not going 100% F2P, they are ADDING a free to play option.

    Maybe you should go back to saying APB never said it was an MMO.

    Yes obvioulsy the largest MMO in the west list looks like this:

    1. World of Warcraft

    2. Dungeons and Dragons Online

    3. Lord of the Rings Online

    Fact is, spaghetti grows on trees, pigs fly, monsters live under your bed and Santa is real. Fact is, switching your payment model from a subscription to free means more people will play and less will pay. Fact is, you have no idea what your talking about and use a 19,000 participant survey as proof. Last I heard WoW had over 50 percent of the market and had 11 million players. So what 22 million people play MMORPG's on average (probablly a lot more). Obviously a sample survey of 19,000 is so microscopic it makes anyone who takes it at face value, like oh I dunno Warner Interactive President Martin Tremblay, look like a tool.

    Let me put this a better way:

    5 percent of that 19,000 survey is 950 people

    5 percent of 22 million is 1,100,000

    Lord of the Rings Online has what 11 servers? Yes people with 11 servers each holding about 100,000 people Lord of the Rings Online is holding 5 percent of the market. That must be why they need another server!!

    HA HA HA!!!!

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • aikunfelcisaikunfelcis Member UncommonPosts: 8

    When F2P model will be introduced I am certainly sure that popularity of this game will be rising and rising. Have a little hope guys :P

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by nilden

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Fact is, LOTRO is the third largest MMO in the west right behind DDO and WOW. Its now poised to be even stronger with with the addition of a F2P option, as well as keeping the P2P. People seem to forget, the game is not going 100% F2P, they are ADDING a free to play option.

    Maybe you should go back to saying APB never said it was an MMO.

    Yes obvioulsy the largest MMO in the west list looks like this:

    1. World of Warcraft

    2. Dungeons and Dragons Online

    3. Lord of the Rings Online

    Fact is, spaghetti grows on trees, pigs fly, monsters live under your bed and Santa is real. Fact is, switching your payment model from a subscription to free means more people will play and less will pay.

    Fact is DDO MORE THAN DOUBLED their monthly subscibers and thats not counting premium players.

    Fact is, you have no idea what your talking about and use a 19,000 participant survey as proof. Last I heard WoW had over 50 percent of the market and had 11 million players. So what 22 million people play MMORPG's on average (probablly a lot more). Obviously a sample survey of 19,000 is so microscopic it makes anyone who takes it at face value, like oh I dunno Warner Interactive President Martin Tremblay, look like a tool.

    Let me put this a better way:

    5 percent of that 19,000 survey is 950 people

    5 percent of 22 million is 1,100,000

    Lord of the Rings Online has what 11 servers? Yes people with 11 servers each holding about 100,000 people Lord of the Rings Online is holding 5 percent of the market. That must be why they need another server!!

    HA HA HA!!!!

    Where does the 22 million come from?

    If WoW has about 50% subscribers  and from Blizzard we have that WoW US servers have about 2.5 million which would put total MMO players at 5 million and the LotrO US number at 250k and each server would then have 22k players which isnt unreasonable but maybe a bit to high,

    Math!

    The survey is not exact but its the best we have. And its alot better than the OPINIONS of a bunch of haters on a forum.

    But it feels like this is way of topic, but it seems like the haters try to spin every topic here.

    HA HA HA...

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by Papadam

    Where does the 22 million come from?

    If WoW has about 50% subscribers  and from Blizzard we have that WoW US servers have about 2.5 million which would put total MMO players at 5 million and the LotrO US number at 250k and each server would then have 22k players which isnt unreasonable but maybe a bit to high,

    Math!

    The survey is not exact but its the best we have. And its alot better than the OPINIONS of a bunch of haters on a forum.

    But it feels like this is way of topic, but it seems like the haters try to spin every topic here.

    HA HA HA...

    Several groups have speculated that wow holds more than 50% of the pay to play market, so doubling their subscriber base would put that at around 22 million.

    No where in the NPD survey do they state this is limited to the US.  It could be worlwide for all we know. 

    Wow is a subscription only game, DDO is a free to play game (with optional sub) and as the survey seems to cover free to play games, it must also consider the additional size of the free to play market.   That would make the number way way bigger than 22 million.

    Free realms and wizard 101 each have ten times more people sign up for their games than DDO has, but they are not on the list?  How does a survey like this miss games that have both gathered more than 10 million players in the same time that DDO has only gotten 1 million? 

     

    I do play DDO and you are free to label me a hater if you like, but there is obviously something lacking in that survey. To start with it never once says DDO is 8% of the entire market.  That is being inferred by everyone making that claim.  It doesn't take rocket science to figure out you can't fit that many players on 7 servers. 

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by Papadam

    Where does the 22 million come from?

    If WoW has about 50% subscribers  and from Blizzard we have that WoW US servers have about 2.5 million which would put total MMO players at 5 million and the LotrO US number at 250k and each server would then have 22k players which isnt unreasonable but maybe a bit to high,

    Math!

    The survey is not exact but its the best we have. And its alot better than the OPINIONS of a bunch of haters on a forum.

    But it feels like this is way of topic, but it seems like the haters try to spin every topic here.

    HA HA HA...

    Several groups have speculated that wow holds more than 50% of the pay to play market, so doubling their subscriber base would put that at around 22 million. No where in the NPD survey do they state this is limited to the US.  It could be worlwide for all we know.

    Well the person I quoted used US numbers from LotrO in his post (11 servers which is what LotrO US have). I think we can rule out Asia from this which will add 2 million to WoW Europe (now 4.5) and another 11 servers for LotrO (22) which will make the number look even better.

    Wow is a subscription only game, DDO is a free to play game (with optional sub) and as the survey seems to cover free to play games, it must also consider the additional size of the free to play market.   That would make the number way way bigger than 22 million.

    Free realms and wizard 101 each have ten times more people sign up for their games than DDO has, but they are not on the list?  How does a survey like this miss games that have both gathered more than 10 million players in the same time that DDO has only gotten 1 million? 

     The number of created account is irrelevant. And its 2 million for DDO btw.

    I do play DDO and you are free to label me a hater if you like, but there is obviously something lacking in that survey. To start with it never once says DDO is 8% of the entire market.  That is being inferred by everyone making that claim.  It doesn't take rocket science to figure out you can't fit that many players on 7 servers. 

    As far as I know that number comes from WB (I didnt use the number in my post). Also note that they got new hardware for the DDO servers when they released F2P which would increase the capacity by 300%. So you could say that they went from 5 "old" servers to 28.

    We dont have any exact numbers and we will never have them. But some of you just like to make up numbers based upon your opinion on how things should be and completly disregard the info we have.

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • Vagrant_ZeroVagrant_Zero Member Posts: 1,190


    Originally posted by nilden


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
    Fact is, LOTRO is the third largest MMO in the west right behind DDO and WOW. Its now poised to be even stronger with with the addition of a F2P option, as well as keeping the P2P. People seem to forget, the game is not going 100% F2P, they are ADDING a free to play option.

    Maybe you should go back to saying APB never said it was an MMO.
    Yes obvioulsy the largest MMO in the west list looks like this:
    1. World of Warcraft
    2. Dungeons and Dragons Online
    3. Lord of the Rings Online
    Fact is, spaghetti grows on trees, pigs fly, monsters live under your bed and Santa is real. Fact is, switching your payment model from a subscription to free means more people will play and less will pay. Fact is, you have no idea what your talking about and use a 19,000 participant survey as proof. Last I heard WoW had over 50 percent of the market and had 11 million players. So what 22 million people play MMORPG's on average (probablly a lot more). Obviously a sample survey of 19,000 is so microscopic it makes anyone who takes it at face value, like oh I dunno Warner Interactive President Martin Tremblay, look like a tool.
    Let me put this a better way:
    5 percent of that 19,000 survey is 950 people
    5 percent of 22 million is 1,100,000
    Lord of the Rings Online has what 11 servers? Yes people with 11 servers each holding about 100,000 people Lord of the Rings Online is holding 5 percent of the market. That must be why they need another server!!
    HA HA HA!!!!

    LotRO has 25 servers. Not 11. More if you count Russia and a few other localized clients.

    /Fail.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by Papadam

     The number of created account is irrelevant. And its 2 million for DDO btw.

    I do play DDO and you are free to label me a hater if you like, but there is obviously something lacking in that survey. To start with it never once says DDO is 8% of the entire market.  That is being inferred by everyone making that claim.  It doesn't take rocket science to figure out you can't fit that many players on 7 servers. 

    As far as I know that number comes from WB (I didnt use the number in my post). Also note that they got new hardware for the DDO servers when they released F2P which would increase the capacity by 300%. So you could say that they went from 5 "old" servers to 28.

    We dont have any exact numbers and we will never have them. But some of you just like to make up numbers based upon your opinion on how things should be and completly disregard the info we have.

    I could not find anything to say DDO went to 2 million accounts created, but you are right that it doesn't matter. 

     

    The numbers come from NPD, the inferring of marketshare comes from Warner Brothers interpretation of those statements.  As for the 300% increase in capacoity, you have something that gives that specific number?   Maybe you are right, but if you are going to call someone out for making up numbers then you should at least give reference to the numbers you present as fact.  Agreed?

    I'm not sure what numbers I have presented that you think are made up or what numbers I am disregarding, but feel free to question them and I'll do my best to give you supporting information.  I have no desire of how things should be, just an opinion of how they actually are.

  • xx19kilosoldxx19kilosold Member Posts: 209

    Love the 19000 person sample size survey that Bloddowrth cites, or should I say mis cites, as some way represents in any accurate way the industry.

    This forum is very entertaining though, regardless of opinion about the game the spin going on in here would make some 80 year old congressmen in Washington DC blush.

  • medmarijuanamedmarijuana Member Posts: 282

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Oddly for a dieing game (sarcasm), they are adding more servers for the FTP change. IIRCC, LOTRO has never closed a server.

    Anyway, now is your chance to help them pick a name. I don't vote for anything I can't pronounce.

     That's because they anticipate that once this game goes F2p that alot of people are gonna be playing it?

     

    I might even play it for a bit.

  • xx19kilosoldxx19kilosold Member Posts: 209

    Originally posted by medmarijuana

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Oddly for a dieing game (sarcasm), they are adding more servers for the FTP change. IIRCC, LOTRO has never closed a server.

    Anyway, now is your chance to help them pick a name. I don't vote for anything I can't pronounce.

     That's because they anticipate that once this game goes F2p that alot of people are gonna be playing it?

     

    I might even play it for a bit.

    Yea, Im sure that is part of it. Thing that is geting spun so badly in this thread is that some here qoute numbers when in reality all that counts for one to be considered a "player" of DDO or any F2P game is to sign up, thats it. Actual numbers as far as revenue are not anywhere near as kind to DDO or other F2P games. Player numbers in a subscription based game are a good barometer for game success and revenue, not so in a F2P game. I did find it quite funny when Turbine released it passed the 1,000,000 account mark in DDO when they have said many many times they will not relesae that kind of info.  Yes there will be more accounts, how or why anyone would even question that is beyond me, but high numbers of F2P accounts does not equal success or revenue. Spin it all you want, but Lotro and DDO ARE in the same basket as the other F2P games and thats who they need to compare to, not traditional revenue modeled games like WoW Eve or Aion.

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by Papadam


     The number of created account is irrelevant. And its 2 million for DDO btw.

    I do play DDO and you are free to label me a hater if you like, but there is obviously something lacking in that survey. To start with it never once says DDO is 8% of the entire market.  That is being inferred by everyone making that claim.  It doesn't take rocket science to figure out you can't fit that many players on 7 servers. 

    As far as I know that number comes from WB (I didnt use the number in my post). Also note that they got new hardware for the DDO servers when they released F2P which would increase the capacity by 300%. So you could say that they went from 5 "old" servers to 28.

    We dont have any exact numbers and we will never have them. But some of you just like to make up numbers based upon your opinion on how things should be and completly disregard the info we have.

    I could not find anything to say DDO went to 2 million accounts created, but you are right that it doesn't matter. 

     

    The numbers come from NPD, the inferring of marketshare comes from Warner Brothers interpretation of those statements.  As for the 300% increase in capacoity, you have something that gives that specific number?   Maybe you are right, but if you are going to call someone out for making up numbers then you should at least give reference to the numbers you present as fact.  Agreed?

    I'm not sure what numbers I have presented that you think are made up or what numbers I am disregarding, but feel free to question them and I'll do my best to give you supporting information.  I have no desire of how things should be, just an opinion of how they actually are.

    Well you were not the one I responded to in the first place, you  just jumped on my post, and I didnt refer to you specifically.

    2 million was reported here: http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=22814

    "the Turbine team notes that some incredible numbers have poured in, with almost two million new players signing up and 20% of former players actually returning to play this rejuvenated MMO."

    Cant find the 300% figure since it was posted somewhere on the forum (maybe beta)  but found this quote: "The addition of this new world comes on the heels of a major hardware upgrade that significantly increased the capacity of the existing DDO worlds," http://www.ddo.com/news/602-new-server-to-open-for-head-start

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Originally posted by medmarijuana


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Oddly for a dieing game (sarcasm), they are adding more servers for the FTP change. IIRCC, LOTRO has never closed a server.

    Anyway, now is your chance to help them pick a name. I don't vote for anything I can't pronounce.

     That's because they anticipate that once this game goes F2p that alot of people are gonna be playing it?

     

    I might even play it for a bit.

    Yea, Im sure that is part of it. Thing that is geting spun so badly in this thread is that some here qoute numbers when in reality all that counts for one to be considered a "player" of DDO or any F2P game is to sign up, thats it. Actual numbers as far as revenue are not anywhere near as kind to DDO or other F2P games. Player numbers in a subscription based game are a good barometer for game success and revenue, not so in a F2P game. I did find it quite funny when Turbine released it passed the 1,000,000 account mark in DDO when they have said many many times they will not relesae that kind of info.  Yes there will be more accounts, how or why anyone would even question that is beyond me, but high numbers of F2P accounts does not equal success or revenue. Spin it all you want, but Lotro and DDO ARE in the same basket as the other F2P games and thats who they need to compare to, not traditional revenue modeled games like WoW Eve or Aion.

    You blame others for spinning and then post this?

    Both LotrO and DDO still offers monthly subscriptions which doenst put it in "the same basket" as other F2P games. Its a hybrid model if you havent realized that yet.

    Yes Turbine have said that they dont release subsctiption numbers and they still havent so I dont understand your point.

    You only use the million number  (which is 2 million) for DDO when infact that is the least relevenat number for the success and everyone agree about that. More than Doubling monthly subscribers and increasing revenue with 500% and as of May 2010 still growing is far more relevant when discussing the success, but you keep on spinning!

    http://doublebuffered.com/2010/05/13/login-2010-how-turbine-supercharged-ddo-by-adopting-a-hybrid-business-model/

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • xx19kilosoldxx19kilosold Member Posts: 209

    Originally posted by Papadam

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold


    Originally posted by medmarijuana


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Oddly for a dieing game (sarcasm), they are adding more servers for the FTP change. IIRCC, LOTRO has never closed a server.

    Anyway, now is your chance to help them pick a name. I don't vote for anything I can't pronounce.

     That's because they anticipate that once this game goes F2p that alot of people are gonna be playing it?

     

    I might even play it for a bit.

    Yea, Im sure that is part of it. Thing that is geting spun so badly in this thread is that some here qoute numbers when in reality all that counts for one to be considered a "player" of DDO or any F2P game is to sign up, thats it. Actual numbers as far as revenue are not anywhere near as kind to DDO or other F2P games. Player numbers in a subscription based game are a good barometer for game success and revenue, not so in a F2P game. I did find it quite funny when Turbine released it passed the 1,000,000 account mark in DDO when they have said many many times they will not relesae that kind of info.  Yes there will be more accounts, how or why anyone would even question that is beyond me, but high numbers of F2P accounts does not equal success or revenue. Spin it all you want, but Lotro and DDO ARE in the same basket as the other F2P games and thats who they need to compare to, not traditional revenue modeled games like WoW Eve or Aion.

    You blame others for spinning and then post this?

    Both LotrO and DDO still offers monthly subscriptions which doenst put it in "the same basket" as other F2P games. Its a hybrid model if you havent realized that yet.

    Yes Turbine have said that they dont release subsctiption numbers and they still havent so I dont understand your point.

    You only use the million number  (which is 2 million) for DDO when infact that is the least relevenat number for the success and everyone agree about that. More than Doubling monthly subscribers and increasing revenue with 500% and as of May 2010 still growing is far more relevant when discussing the success, but you keep on spinning!

    http://doublebuffered.com/2010/05/13/login-2010-how-turbine-supercharged-ddo-by-adopting-a-hybrid-business-model/

    Having an opinion and mis representing facts when citing surveys and studies are a much different beast. 

    Oh no man, its in the same basket when they count all accounts instead of subscribers. You guys want to compare Lotro and DDO to subscription based games as far as populations but when they dont use the same basis in these counts its not the same. If Turbine counts accounts and not subscribers then they are NOT in the same category as EVE WoW Aion etc. Thats part of the pro Turbine spin I am talking about. Want to count free users and accounts that have been made, then you lump yourself with the rest of the games that do the same thing. It is not logical for you all to continue to do so, and it should be pretty obvious to more nuetral people who read these forums.

    I said it was funny that Turbine made a public statement about reaching 1 million accounts in DDO when they said they would never do so before. My point being they will release numbers only when its beneficial from a PR standpoint which begs this question, if Lotro was as wildly successful and growing as some of you here keep telling us, where are the anouncments about its GROWING subscriber base??

    See, I make no mention of exact numbers other than to show the hypocricy from Trubine over their statements out of their PR dept.. You quote numbers that are spun up my firend. 500% increase in revenue huh? 500% from what, what was the basline for these gains, Im pretty sure we can all agree DDO was not doing very well at all. 50% subscriber increase, great if you started with 300k, but we all know that to not be true.

    Spinning facts and stating opinions are two different things buddy. I am stating an opinion, you and blood spin nubers and surveys to suit your hyperbole. Thats a huge difference.

    Remember, a CEO stating "I believe our company is going to be making some nice profits this next year" to your share holders  is not the same as "cooking" with the numbers to alter the truth, just ask some of the folks at Enron.

     

     

     

     

     

  • xzyaxxzyax Member Posts: 2,459

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Love the 19000 person sample size survey that Bloddowrth cites, or should I say mis cites, as some way represents in any accurate way the industry.

    This forum is very entertaining though, regardless of opinion about the game the spin going on in here would make some 80 year old congressmen in Washington DC blush.

     


    I like threads with numbers in them... 


    I am a bit surprised by the posters that are bashing NPD's 19,000 sample size as being too small to be of any significance.


     


    Any idea of the sampling size that most news organizations use to base their poll numbers on? 


    You know organizations like: Gallop, Pew, Rasmussen, Zogby, USA Today, ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc.


     


    Here is an excerpt from an article by Gallop:


    “The current U.S. adult population in the continental United States is 187 million. The typical sample size for a Gallup poll, which is designed to represent this general population, is 1,000 national adults.”


    “Gallup and other major organizations use sample sizes of between 1,000 and 1,500 because they provide a solid balance of accuracy against the increased economic cost of larger and larger samples.”


     



     


     


    Here’s another quote from a researcher:


     


    Brad Coker, the researcher responsible for the study responded that


    "the standard sample size used by polling groups nationally is 625. It produces, as the story stated, a margin of error of plus-or-minus 4 percent. Increasing the sample size to 800 would have produced a margin of error of plus-or-minus 3.5 – more accurate, but not so much more accurate to justify the additional cost."


    "Many people do not understand how sample sizes work. They believe that, the larger the pool, the larger the sample size needs to be."


     



     


     


    A link to the sampling size formulas, and a follow-up discussion on how it relates to opinion polls:


     




     


     


    Suffice to say, a sample size from NPD (an expert on sampling) of 19,000 (who are acknowledged MMO players) is more than sufficient to represent the MMO gaming community.  


     


    A sampling size of less than 1/10th that size is usually used to represent more than 10 times the same numbers on a litany of more important topics than MMOs.  


     


    Well, that’s probably enough from me.  Sorry to interrupt... carry on with banal banter.  image

Sign In or Register to comment.