SOE did the NGE to SWG right after the ToO expansion came out. WoW's new expansion has not come out yet. All it takes is for them to wait until after Cataclysm expansion releases and sells like the latest Apple product and then reimplement the RealID system and it will be the NGE-after-the-expansion all over again...but on a worse level. At first glance, Activision (Blizzard) appears doubly stupid both in even coming up with something like the RealID farce and in not waiting to do it until after the expansion released. It could almost appear that they were testing the waters just so they know what they will have to deal with if they do reimplement it after the initial expansion sales.
Major tinfoil hat there, but it is a completly possible scenario.
Well, I will just say this. Sure, majority rules. But you can look at this both ways. There was another group of people who DID want the real ID and other things in the game. And blizzard thrashed it. So in my opinion, no, they did not listen to the community. Again thoiugh that is just my opinion. That is also if you are going off the majority rules bit too.
Can people like you (OP and all you other weasels) get over NGE please?
What a bunch of freekin' drama queens. It happened YEARS AGO...and in a game no less.
My thoughts exactly.
Reminds me of when I have an argument with my wife, all of a sudden we go off topic and she is bringing up things I did wrong from 10 yrs ago!!!!! 10 freakin yrs.
Plus lets get one thing straight here, Blizzard wanted to release ppl's real names, SoE's cock-up was to change the game, not release your RL details to every Tom Dick or Harry, there's a very very real difference here.
However to the sad ppl that can't let the past go, have fun crying over a game that will never ever ever change back to it's core.
Well it would be relevant if your wife was addressing your current actions that held a pattern that related all the way back to your issues of 5 years ago. Don't you agree?
Sort of like if soe kept promising they were going to listen to their players before making changes, but then patched in something like... oh I don't know... a microtransaction cash shop into the games they promised would never have rmt in them. The first time the company announces it to the players is AFTER they patch it into the game. They promise to listen to the players feedback about the cash shop, but the very next day the lead producer of the game says in an interview that the cash shop is here to stay.
Sure the NGE happened years ago, but it is symbolic of the long history of the company that really has not changed. Thus it still has relevance.
I thought this was all covered back in '05, but whatever:
Star Wars Galaxies is the intellectual property of LucasArts. NOT Sony Online Entertainment. ALL changes made to the game (including its game engine, mechanics, questing system, classes, etc.) are at the discretion and ONLY with the approval of LucasArts.
In other words, LucasArts screwed up the game.
Lucas approved the screw up that soe designed. Plenty of former soe employees have admitted as much. That soe conceived, designed and pressed lucas arts to make the changes.
Lucas arts gets to share the blame for it becoming reality, but without soe dreaming up the idea it never would have happened.
hm did Blizzard scrap the realID completely? only read that they wont use your real name on the forum, am thinking about if you get someone on friendlist will their real name still be shown
as of real names....really do not blame the lack of identity online for "forum trolls" even if you show your real name no one or hardly any of us would meet in RL. also I used to be taught about online conduct in school - not that Id really use it, but get to wonder if anyone really is being taught this anymore.
I find it amazing how the ppl on here flame someone for bringing it up
"Get over it!" they say....
well we're OVER it, but we will NOT let them forget.
we will never keep quiet when another game company starts talking about making a game more iconic.
we think of ourselves as the protectors of future games by keeping this horrible and unacceptable crime on YOUR minds.
because as soon as everyone let's it truely go.....there will be another NGE somewhere.
the suits don't want you to bring it up, plenty of reason to keep it brought up right there.
Crime? LOL......
Seriously though, go look at the link I posted earlier. Theres a single thread on LucasArts dedicated to SWG discussion. Head on over and voice your opinion about this "crime".
Better yet, i'll supply you with a direct link to the ONLY SWG dedicated thread on LucasArts entire site to save you the hassle of finding it yourself:
Listed in the very LAST subforum, and buried yet another two levels deep under the heading of "Other Discussion" (its not even listed as one of their games, even though THEY OWN IT! LOL). Be sure to take note of the thread title. And by all means, feel free to reg up and leave them a piece of your mind
hm did Blizzard scrap the realID completely? only read that they wont use your real name on the forum, am thinking about if you get someone on friendlist will their real name still be shown
as of real names....really do not blame the lack of identity online for "forum trolls" even if you show your real name no one or hardly any of us would meet in RL. also I used to be taught about online conduct in school - not that Id really use it, but get to wonder if anyone really is being taught this anymore.
It depends on how you read it. The things that stood out to me were the creative use of the words "at this time", and the later comment about going forward in their plan to utilise RealID's "powerful" features.
The way it reads to me (and i'm not saying its actually how they mean it), is that they're going ahead with RealID's features, without the use of real names in the forums, but eventually (as soon as they find a way around the potential legal ramifications) they'll add in whatever they can legally get away with.
hm did Blizzard scrap the realID completely? only read that they wont use your real name on the forum, am thinking about if you get someone on friendlist will their real name still be shown
as of real names....really do not blame the lack of identity online for "forum trolls" even if you show your real name no one or hardly any of us would meet in RL. also I used to be taught about online conduct in school - not that Id really use it, but get to wonder if anyone really is being taught this anymore.
It depends on how you read it. The things that stood out to me were the creative use of the words "at this time", and the later comment about going forward in their plan to utilise RealID's "powerful" features.
The way it reads to me (and i'm not saying its actually how they mean it), is that they're going ahead with RealID's features, without the use of real names in the forums, but eventually (as soon as they find a way around the potential legal ramifications) they'll add in whatever they can legally get away with.
Again, thats just how it reads. To me at least.
At this time!!!! In other words after we ship out the expansion pack and have 6 million units sold. Then we will go back to our plan - --- Blizard. So in other words they want to make sure they get that sold first then let the cards fall.
At this time tells me one thing. They just put it on hold.
I thought this was all covered back in '05, but whatever:
Star Wars Galaxies is the intellectual property of LucasArts. NOT Sony Online Entertainment. ALL changes made to the game (including its game engine, mechanics, questing system, classes, etc.) are at the discretion and ONLY with the approval of LucasArts.
In other words, LucasArts screwed up the game.
Now don't get me wrong. I hold no great love for SOE (they HAVE screwed up their fair share of their own games), but what happened to SWG simply wasn't their doing. I'm certainly not saying they would, but even if they wanted to listen to SWG's playerbase at the time, they simply couldn't.
And if you think the RealID thing is over for Activision/Blizzard, you're sadly mistaken. This is just a temporary setback for their plans to merge the gaming genre into other, larger and more popular social networks (like FaceBook and MySpace) in their effort to glean even more money from their products.
Is SOE a greedy company looking to squeeze every dollar they can from their games? Absolutely. From a business point of view, theres really nothing wrong with that. They're a business, and the purpose of a business is to make money from its products for its shareholders.
Within the coming years, every game that is played online will be a part of a vast social network where gamers can socialise with their friends on FaceBook, MySpace, and even other games in various other media (cross-platform), like X-Box, PS3, Wii, etc..
Prepare yourselves. Because this IS going to happen. One way or another.
LucasArts failed in that they allowed SOE to change the game. They put their faith in a company with experience in creating and maintaining mmo's. To LA, the idea must have looked good on paper, which yeah is their fault. Problem with trying to take away blame from SOE, is that SOE is the company that presented the concepts to LA and are the one's that wrote the code. A competent company may have been able to accomplish what was attempted,but SOE wasn't talented enough to pull it off. Basically LA gave them the opportunity to create this "new and exciting" game, not to create a bug filled mess that was so horrible,most players couldn't bear to stick it out. You could have an idea for the best recipe in the world, but in the hands of a crappy chef the meal fails. It's the chef's fault (SOE), not the idea for the recipe(LA).
LucasArts failed in that they allowed SOE to change the game. They put their faith in a company with experience in creating and maintaining mmo's. To LA, the idea must have looked good on paper, which yeah is their fault. Problem with trying to take away blame from SOE, is that SOE is the company that presented the concepts to LA and are the one's that wrote the code. A competent company may have been able to accomplish what was attempted,but SOE wasn't talented enough to pull it off. Basically LA gave them the opportunity to create this "new and exciting" game, not to create a bug filled mess that was so horrible,most players couldn't bear to stick it out. You could have an idea for the best recipe in the world, but in the hands of a crappy chef the meal fails. It's the chef's fault (SOE), not the idea for the recipe(LA).
Wrong. LucasArts sent a number of "advisors" to the SOE studios in Austin to oversee the restructuring of the game. The guy in charge at the time was Rafael something, or Ray something or other..... damn I can't remember his name now.
SOE pitched some ideas, sure. But the bottom line is, the final decisions were always at the express discretion of LucasArts. NOTHING got approved unless they approved it. And if you believe for a second that SOE didn't want to react to the outcry on their forums after the NGE was announced (2 weeks prior to its actual launch), you'd have to be utterly blind (SOE watched with tied hands as a very large part of their subscriber base very publicly expressed their distatse, and could do absolutely NOTHING to stop it).
BTW, when the owner of a restaurant (LucasArts) TELLS the chef (SOE) to put dog crap on the menu, the chef could certainly quit. Unless legally binding contractual obligations force him to do as hes told.
In other words, your analogy is pretty fail, because it conveniently omits an important variable.
The game was doing fine as it was. Players were enjoying it. It had a healthy subscriber base relative to other games of its type/theme. There were some complaints, sure. But aside from the usual "vocal minority", it was a healthy and thriving game. Jeez, it had a quarter million subs! So ask yourself this:
why would SOE pitch the idea of completely redesigning a game that was doing just fine? Simple. They DIDN'T. LucasArts thought it could do better than it was. But back then, the genre was MUCH smaller than it is now. The available options were few (EQ, DAOC, AO, SWG for the most part), and sci-fi themed games were dwarfed in popularity by the fantasy themed games (about 250k subs, on par with DAOC, dwarfing AO's 60k, and about half of EQ's 500k in 2004..... fantasy was simply more popular than sci-fi and always has been. At a margin of about 3:1).
Gotta wonder tho.... whats gonna happen if/when LucasArts pushes BioWare to make radical changes to SW:TOR well after it launches, if it doesn't contend financially with say.... WoW? I can just imagine all the inevitable /wrists posts
What would having to reveal who really are on a forum page of a game would have done to you in real life. In all honesty nothing. What that you still played games. Ptfff. You peopel are sad little monkeys. Ive played both SWG before and after the CU,NGE and to be honest with you I do prefer the NGE CU version of the game. But I do like the PRE-CU-NGE version too. What I dont like about the pre version is combat is slow as hell everything else is just fine. I think LA had the right idea about giving the go ahead for the changes.
This is what I the of you whining
Ask the Blizzard guy who said it was "no big deal" how it felt to have dozens of pizza deliveries arrive at his mothers house. Or what it was like seeing his wifes name, their street address, pictures of his family, and some minor criminal arrest records from his past plastered all over the web.
Give that info to someone bearing a grudge, and the potential dangers are VERY real.
LucasArts failed in that they allowed SOE to change the game. They put their faith in a company with experience in creating and maintaining mmo's. To LA, the idea must have looked good on paper, which yeah is their fault. Problem with trying to take away blame from SOE, is that SOE is the company that presented the concepts to LA and are the one's that wrote the code. A competent company may have been able to accomplish what was attempted,but SOE wasn't talented enough to pull it off. Basically LA gave them the opportunity to create this "new and exciting" game, not to create a bug filled mess that was so horrible,most players couldn't bear to stick it out. You could have an idea for the best recipe in the world, but in the hands of a crappy chef the meal fails. It's the chef's fault (SOE), not the idea for the recipe(LA).
Wrong. LucasArts sent a number of "advisors" to the SOE studios in Austin to oversee the restructuring of the game. The guy in charge at the time was Rafael something, or Ray something or other..... damn I can't remember his name now.
SOE pitched some ideas, sure. But the bottom line is, the final decisions were always at the express discretion of LucasArts. NOTHING got approved unless they approved it. And if you believe for a second that SOE didn't want to react to the outcry on their forums after the NGE was announced (2 weeks prior to its actual launch), you'd have to be utterly blind (SOE watched with tied hands as a very large part of their subscriber base very publicly expressed their distatse, and could do absolutely NOTHING to stop it).
BTW, when the owner of a restaurant (LucasArts) TELLS the chef (SOE) to put dog crap on the menu, the chef could certainly quit. Unless legally binding contractual obligations force him to do as hes told.
In other words, your analogy is pretty fail, because it conveniently omits an important variable.
The game was doing fine as it was. Players were enjoying it. It had a healthy subscriber base relative to other games of its type/theme. There were some complaints, sure. But aside from the usual "vocal minority", it was a healthy and thriving game. Jeez, it had a quarter million subs! So ask yourself this:
why would SOE pitch the idea of completely redesigning a game that was doing just fine? Simple. They DIDN'T. LucasArts thought it could do better than it was. But back then, the genre was MUCH smaller than it is now. The available options were few (EQ, DAOC, AO, SWG for the most part), and sci-fi themed games were dwarfed in popularity by the fantasy themed games (about 250k subs, on par with DAOC, dwarfing AO's 60k, and about half of EQ's 500k in 2004..... fantasy was simply more popular than sci-fi and always has been. At a margin of about 3:1).
Gotta wonder tho.... whats gonna happen if/when LucasArts pushes BioWare to make radical changes to SW:TOR well after it launches, if it doesn't contend financially with say.... WoW? I can just imagine all the inevitable /wrists posts
I suggest you go read the original Rubenfeld blog at mmofringe to get some more background on some of your assumptions. Get it from the horse's... umm... mouth so to speak.
SOE were the creators of the NGE, not LA. Yes, LA approved the changes, but it was very clear from that blog entry and things that various SOE toadies have said since then that it was SOE in the driver's seat.
Smed got WoW fever and that is the long and the short of it.
I suggest you go read the original Rubenfeld blog at mmofringe to get some more background on some of your assumptions. Get it from the horse's... umm... mouth so to speak.
SOE were the creators of the NGE, not LA. Yes, LA approved the changes, but it was very clear from that blog entry and things that various SOE toadies have said since then that it was SOE in the driver's seat.
Smed got WoW fever and that is the long and the short of it.
“Is it hard to develop a game such SWG with so much interferences from Lucasarts? ”
Lucasarts was the most pleasant IP owner I have ever worked with. Professional, fast, concise, and willing to bend over backwards to make sure we could do what we wanted to do.
"Plus, all of the liason’s we had on their end went out of their way to streamline the process.
Very positive relationship all-around.
“Why was there such a rush to release the NGE?”
Holiday Season.
“Who is to blame? We want Names!”
That’s not how it works.
I am proud of the work I and everyone else has done over the years since Galaxies started development.
Even though I’m not at SOE anymore I respect the work they do every single day. Some of the best game developers I have ever worked with are still at SOE.
Every day the game continues to run, every day that that SWG has someone playing is something I view as a great accomplishment, and one I’m proud to have been a part of.
So, if you want someone to blame, blame me. This isn’t about finger pointing or passing a buck."
From the "horse's mouth" back in July '08. Source here.
You think he can actually come right out and point a finger at LucasArts (even though he no longer works for SOE)? NO ONE can. "Thats not how it works" is right. Because they'd find themselves (and probably their great-grandkids) wrapped in litigation from now until the end of time. Of course SOE was in the driver's set. They were the studio contracted to build the game LucasArts wanted built.
You think he can actually come right out and point a finger at LucasArts (even though he no longer works for SOE)? NO ONE can. "Thats not how it works" is right. Because they'd find themselves (and probably their great-grandkids) wrapped in litigation from now until the end of time. Of course SOE was in the driver's set. They were the studio contracted to build the game LucasArts wanted built.
It is strange that you think making a comment like that would result in endless litgation, but don't think lucas arts wouldn't be held to ligation for forcing unwanted changes on their licensee. Changes that would negate millions of dollars invested by the licensee, risk their licensed product, risk to their brand and risk their current operations. Obviously this change didn't work and has cost soe millions of dollars and if Lucas Arts forced the change I'm pretty sure soe would expect lucas arts to pay for the losses.
Keeping that in mind I'm not sure Lucas Arts had the power to force change on the game as you seem to think they do. Lucas arts could complain all they want, but if they somehow forced a change of this magnitude they could be held responsible for the outcome and soe would have a pretty good case I think.
Lucas arts had the power of approval. I don't think they had the power to tell soe to spend their own money and developer time to redesign the game and do so in such a way that they would obviously risk their investment, product and playerbase. I'm pretty sure soe could have refused the nge (if it was pitched by lucas arts), continued to run swg as it was even if lucas arts never approved another thing (in which case LucasArts wouldn't be acting in good faith and subject to litigation) and lucas arts would be powerless to do anything about it.
Now I have zero doubt that both companies sat around a room scratching their head at the success put up by world of warcraft and wondered why a star wars game wasn't on that same level. Nor do I doubt they both wanted to get millions of players like wow had, but I don't think Lucas Arts A) forced a change of this nature forced the change in the way it was handled C) had anyone on the design team that was in a position to come up with the idea for the nge or D) had the authority to force soe to make changes this drastic.
The nge has the stink of soe all over it. All of the elements are signature moves that soe has done in their other mmos. They were really keen to the idea of "revamps" of mmos that were already years into live production. They are the kings of beta testing massive changes to their games in a live environment. They also love to drop bombshells on their playerbase with little to no warning about changes that they know will drive players away. See station exchange, station cash, livegamer, etc for examples of this. You can see the same elements from the nge repeated by soe in their other mmos where lucas arts has no control over and lucas arts can't be blamed for that.
To this day I have yet to hear anyone offer a plausible explaination of how lucas arts could have forced this change or who they had design it. The best i've heard anyone offer is "Well Lucas Arts wasn't happy with the performance of the game so they made soe change it", which is hardly compelling.
That is even possible without it. There are ways of getting that same info through pther mean.
Then by all means.....
present it.
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for, but maybe it is?
We were asked to imagine something new and unique. To push it to the next level. Originally, it was specced as a tutorial. A tutorial paired with a new marketing push, new and grandiose relaunch that would recapture the magic that we missed when we first released.
But a tutorial wasn’t enough. We scrambled to come up with something more impressive.
We tested out a new combat system on a whim. I did a quick prototype and we discussed it internally.
The difference was the control scheme, not the rules. You clicked, You shot.
When we demonstrated it, the first comment was “Wooooah….”
And the producer left the room.
He came back shortly and was torn. He knew that we had to make the change. It was THAT much better.
We did a side by side comparison. We tried to play the old system. We couldn’t.
However, we made a mistake.
Somewhere during the discussions it was strongly recommended that we streamline our characters.
People wanted something simpler, more direct, more accessible.
We told them. “If you do this, you will lose all 200k subscribers. It is that significant.”
It was explained that we would gain more due to the marketing push and relaunch.
That is from Dan Rubenfields drunken rantings on his own blog.
They keys to note are
that the SWG design team was tasked to make a new tutorial for the game to go along with a marketing push.
the soe staff pressed for the tutorial to be something more than they were asked to do
on a whim they created a new game system and discussed it INTERNALLY
soe demoed it to the producer (not the executive producer, but the producer which would be an soe employee)
the rest is history
Obviously lucas arts got on board with the idea, so they are just as much to blame for it happening, but you can clearly see that the NGE was not forced on soe. It was something dreamed up by soe.
LucasArts failed in that they allowed SOE to change the game. They put their faith in a company with experience in creating and maintaining mmo's. To LA, the idea must have looked good on paper, which yeah is their fault. Problem with trying to take away blame from SOE, is that SOE is the company that presented the concepts to LA and are the one's that wrote the code. A competent company may have been able to accomplish what was attempted,but SOE wasn't talented enough to pull it off. Basically LA gave them the opportunity to create this "new and exciting" game, not to create a bug filled mess that was so horrible,most players couldn't bear to stick it out. You could have an idea for the best recipe in the world, but in the hands of a crappy chef the meal fails. It's the chef's fault (SOE), not the idea for the recipe(LA).
BTW, when the owner of a restaurant (LucasArts) TELLS the chef (SOE) to put dog crap on the menu, the chef could certainly quit. Unless legally binding contractual obligations force him to do as hes told.
First off, if SOE quit, they would be without a game. Secondly, alot of the devs from SOE left when the NGE was announced, or got fired for being vocally against it. From what I know, some of the devs were ordered to shill how great the changes were on numerous websites and then they were allowed to keep their jobs and move on to working on other games, such as DC and Agency. The majority of the regular SWG devs were working on the Mustafar expansion, while some extra help was brought in the help work behind the scenes, unknown to the regular devs,which caused their uproar in the first place. They were hired using money SOE expected to recieve from the expansion. Well obviously that didn't work out too great due to them having to fork out returns to customers that bought the expansion before the change. Devs leaving or being fired due to disagreeing with changes is the reason the dev team started to get so small. After they left, SOE didn't have the money to hire quality replacements due to them still owing money to the hired help they pulled on to work on NGE behind the scenes. The few devs that stuck around were the one's with families that needed the money and the few stragglers that got to stick around after being hired on as temps and offered permanent positions. You can believe this or not, who cares honestly if you don't, but it was all SOE's idea.
It is strange that you think making a comment like that would result in endless litgation, but don't think lucas arts wouldn't be held to ligation for forcing unwanted changes on their licensee. Changes that would negate millions of dollars invested by the licensee, risk their licensed product, risk to their brand and risk their current operations. Obviously this change didn't work and has cost soe millions of dollars and if Lucas Arts forced the change I'm pretty sure soe would expect lucas arts to pay for the losses.
Ever heard of a "non-disclosure agreement"? Sure you have.....
You're also quick to point out the risks to and expectations of LucasArts, and equally quick in ignoring the flip side of that coin. Do you really believe that LucasArts didn't lose big money from this fiasco?
So, with all your infinite wisdom and knowledge of single-sided contract law, answer this:
With the potential millions in lost revenue this obviously cost LucasArts, AND their investors and shareholders, why has there never been litigation against SOE?
Take the blinders off.
You can try to lay the sole blame at the feet of SOE all you like. But the truth is that LucasArts didn't even make an attempt at setting things right for their investors and shareholders. Both of which come WELL before the disgruntled fans that exploded all over the web. Hell, they barely give the game any notice at all on their own website! (a single thread buried deep in their forums, and a link to the SOE site off their main page). Keep in mind that the SOE/LucasArts contract for SWG's license has already expired, and been renewed at least once. Twice if you believe the "3 year" scenario. And at those points, it was at the SOLE discretion of LucasArts whether to renew or not.
Jake Neri: I guess the true answer to that is, honestly, time will tell. We've always said that we'll support Galaxies while the fans support Galaxies. So I think that's probably the true answer. While there are still people playing it, we're still interested in having it going.
I find that a bit disingenuous considering their very minimal acknowledgement of its very existence. My guess is that once BioWares SW:TOR cannibilizes SWG's remaining fanbase to near nothing (assumng it lives up to the expectations), SOE's license for SWG will not be further renewed.
And if SW:TOR doesn't live up to the expectations? We'll certainly find out soon enough.
It is strange that you think making a comment like that would result in endless litgation, but don't think lucas arts wouldn't be held to ligation for forcing unwanted changes on their licensee. Changes that would negate millions of dollars invested by the licensee, risk their licensed product, risk to their brand and risk their current operations. Obviously this change didn't work and has cost soe millions of dollars and if Lucas Arts forced the change I'm pretty sure soe would expect lucas arts to pay for the losses.
Ever heard of a "non-disclosure agreement"? Sure you have.....
You're also quick to point out the risks to and expectations of LucasArts, and equally quick in ignoring the flip side of that coin. Do you really believe that LucasArts didn't lose big money from this fiasco?
So, with all your infinite wisdom and knowledge of single-sided contract law, answer this:
With the potential millions in lost revenue this obviously cost LucasArts, AND their investors and shareholders, why has there never been litigation against SOE?
Take the blinders off.
You can try to lay the sole blame at the feet of SOE all you like. But the truth is that LucasArts didn't even make an attempt at setting things right for their investors and shareholders. Both of which come WELL before the disgruntled fans that exploded all over the web. Hell, they barely give the game any notice at all on their own website! (a single thread buried deep in their forums, and a link to the SOE site off their main page). Keep in mind that the SOE/LucasArts contract for SWG's license has already expired, and been renewed at least once. Twice if you believe the "3 year" scenario. And at those points, it was at the SOLE discretion of LucasArts whether to renew or not.
First of all I am not laying sole blame on SOE. I blame lucas art just as much for allowing this to happen, being just as greedy and turning their back on their customers just as much as soe did. However I don't give soe a pass on initiating the nge, of creating the idea and proposing it. If soe had done their job in the first place there wouldn't be a need for either revamps of the games design. Soe dreamed up the idea and specifically stated by Dan Rubenfield. So your question was answered, correct?
My point was that lucas arts doesn't have the power to force those types of changes and they didn't as stated by developers. You have yet to offer anything to support your theory that lucas forced soe into the nge. Care to share something that has a little more proof than "people can't talk about it because of non-disclosures, so the lack of proof is proof itself"?
Second, why didn't lucas arts sue soe. Thats such an easy answer it begs if you have any understaning of the situation. Considering lucas arts has to put their stamp of approval on anything that goes into the game, I'm not sure what grounds they wound sue on? Are you trying to say soe is responsible for damages on a game change that lucas arts approved of? You can't be serious can you?
Why didn't Lucas Arts didn't try to make things right for its share holders, because it isn't publically traded? There is no need for them to address the public with their actions, because it is a private company.
Not that they didn't try 3 times to make the game work for their "investors"
1)release of swg
2)combat upgrade
3)nge,
At some point a company has to come to terms that their partner is incapable of making the needed changes to turn a product around. They can't revoke the license and each revamp attempt soe made only caused more harm to the game and the brand, so what is the point? Soe had three chances to make the game work and failed with each one. I completely understand why lucas arts has not allowed soe to make any more major changes to the game and they basically treat it as if it doesn't exist.
As for the length of the contract and it being resigned, prove it. Do you have a link with a press release about the renewed contract? I highly doubt soe signed a contract that only lasted a few years and risked millions building a game in such a manner.
Sony DID listen to the community. That's why the tossed out a pathetic game that only 3 people liked, and took great steps to improve it.
LOL
That is troll bait like I've never seen
Maybe so but they didn't change the game because it was doing "great". No, the truth was SWG was already in decline in it's second year. If I'm not mistaken, that whole CU / NGE thing was in developement for a pretty long time before it launched in it's second year. Let's face it, SWG capped at 300k which is nothing by todays standards. Hell, even WAR hit 900k or so at launch...No, SWG had issues from day one considering the franchise it had behind it.
I wouldn't say "great steps to improve it"...but it was very clear what they had wasn't any good and they had to do something.
Anyway, it's 2010, this happened in 2005 so what difference does it make? SWG has outlived many MMO's at this point.
Maybe so but they didn't change the game because it was doing "great". No, the truth was SWG was already in decline in it's second year. If I'm not mistaken, that whole CU / NGE thing was in developement for a pretty long time before it launched in it's second year. Let's face it, SWG capped at 300k which is nothing by todays standards. Hell, even WAR hit 900k or so at launch...No, SWG had issues from day one considering the franchise it had behind it.
I wouldn't say "great steps to improve it"...but it was very clear what they had wasn't any good and they had to do something.
Anyway, it's 2010, this happened in 2005 so what difference does it make? SWG has outlived many MMO's at this point.
SWG started to really decline about 6 months after release in a perrty big way. This was right around they time the dev team paniced and introduced the holocron grind in an attempt to give players something to do. The combat upgrade (according to some who worked on it) actually stopped the player loss and saw a small increase in population for a time at least. The NGE obviously undid that and started loosing players again in a whole new way.
SWG was pretty successful at release and it was still the second largest mmo in north america. The reason is never took off, was due to the horrid condition that the game was in. Not just at release, but continuously in a poor state of things with each major revamp only makng things worse.
It is just absurd for soe/lucas arts to expect a game that is of such poor quality to have the power to draw in more players when they couldn't even retain what they had. Not once did either company try to correct the true problem of the game and as such it never truely had a chance to live up to its potential and no amount of revamps would fix the game as long as they ignorned what was truely wrong. They simply never listened to the players which is why the game has gone to hell and back several times by repeating the same mistakes over and over.
A powerful IP can only do so much for a game and bringing up warhammer is a very appropriate example since both games pretty much share similar circumstances.
I think a lot of station pass mmos have outlived their peers at this point. Had they been independant mmos, most would have closed shop by now.
As for the length of the contract and it being resigned, prove it. Do you have a link with a press release about the renewed contract? I highly doubt soe signed a contract that only lasted a few years and risked millions building a game in such a manner.
Prove what? That the industry standard is 3 years on average? IP licenses aren't something their owners give out on a long term basis. Hell, Lucas only gives Hasbro a max license period of 10 years for actual physical products. LucasArts may not be a publicly traded corporation, but they could certainly be held accountable to the shareholders of their partners if it were ever revealed that it was them that was responsible for the loss of revenue. The fact that they weren't is certainly suspect.
Don't be so naive. LucasArts bound SOE by NDA as part of their license contract. And they'd have been fools not to. And you can bet they afforded themselves that same luxury with BioWare. So if/when THAT game goes tits-up, it won't have any effect on the next piece of crap they shovel into the market through their next partnership.
Oh, and the name I couldn't remember earlier was Julio Torres. He was LucasArts executive producer for SWG prior to, and during the NGE planning and implementation stages. (he started working on SWG with JTL)
You should read the interview he did with GameSpy back in Nov. '05, which CLEARLY shows that the NGE changes to SWG were AT LEAST as much the responsibility of LucasArts, as it was SOE (yeah, I know, you yourself aren't claiming otherwise... so that bit isn't directed at you specifically). Most notable though, is this comment:
JT: Our goal is to make Star Wars Galaxies as fun, exciting, and accessible to all current, new, and prospective players as possible. When developing these new enhancements, our focus was on making the game more fun for everyone, including our veteran/current players.
Its pretty clear that he was neck deep in the whole thing, AS it was being developed and implemented. So who really proposed and initiated the NGE may never really be known. I tend to believe it was LucasArts, mainly because mmo studios don't normally make massive changes like that to an already live game. Especially when it was obviously performing reasonably in the mmo market.
You can bet LucasArts will have a whole team of Julio Torres' sticking their hands into SW:TOR. Just hope those that buy and sub to it don't have to experience their own NGE if its suddenly decided that it needs to be "more fun" for everyone a year or more after its release.
Whats done is done, and nothing can change it. So enough of this. It certainly doesn't hold any comparison in severity to what Activision/Blizzard tried to pull on their subscribers with RealID. At least SOE never tried to offer my personal information to the general public to make money.
Comments
A couple of things we should keep in mind here...
SOE did the NGE to SWG right after the ToO expansion came out. WoW's new expansion has not come out yet. All it takes is for them to wait until after Cataclysm expansion releases and sells like the latest Apple product and then reimplement the RealID system and it will be the NGE-after-the-expansion all over again...but on a worse level. At first glance, Activision (Blizzard) appears doubly stupid both in even coming up with something like the RealID farce and in not waiting to do it until after the expansion released. It could almost appear that they were testing the waters just so they know what they will have to deal with if they do reimplement it after the initial expansion sales.
Major tinfoil hat there, but it is a completly possible scenario.
Well, I will just say this. Sure, majority rules. But you can look at this both ways. There was another group of people who DID want the real ID and other things in the game. And blizzard thrashed it. So in my opinion, no, they did not listen to the community. Again thoiugh that is just my opinion. That is also if you are going off the majority rules bit too.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
I find it amazing how the ppl on here flame someone for bringing it up
"Get over it!" they say....
well we're OVER it, but we will NOT let them forget.
we will never keep quiet when another game company starts talking about making a game more iconic.
we think of ourselves as the protectors of future games by keeping this horrible and unacceptable crime on YOUR minds.
because as soon as everyone let's it truely go.....there will be another NGE somewhere.
the suits don't want you to bring it up, plenty of reason to keep it brought up right there.
Well it would be relevant if your wife was addressing your current actions that held a pattern that related all the way back to your issues of 5 years ago. Don't you agree?
Sort of like if soe kept promising they were going to listen to their players before making changes, but then patched in something like... oh I don't know... a microtransaction cash shop into the games they promised would never have rmt in them. The first time the company announces it to the players is AFTER they patch it into the game. They promise to listen to the players feedback about the cash shop, but the very next day the lead producer of the game says in an interview that the cash shop is here to stay.
Sure the NGE happened years ago, but it is symbolic of the long history of the company that really has not changed. Thus it still has relevance.
Lucas approved the screw up that soe designed. Plenty of former soe employees have admitted as much. That soe conceived, designed and pressed lucas arts to make the changes.
Lucas arts gets to share the blame for it becoming reality, but without soe dreaming up the idea it never would have happened.
hm did Blizzard scrap the realID completely? only read that they wont use your real name on the forum, am thinking about if you get someone on friendlist will their real name still be shown
as of real names....really do not blame the lack of identity online for "forum trolls" even if you show your real name no one or hardly any of us would meet in RL. also I used to be taught about online conduct in school - not that Id really use it, but get to wonder if anyone really is being taught this anymore.
Crime? LOL......
Seriously though, go look at the link I posted earlier. Theres a single thread on LucasArts dedicated to SWG discussion. Head on over and voice your opinion about this "crime".
Better yet, i'll supply you with a direct link to the ONLY SWG dedicated thread on LucasArts entire site to save you the hassle of finding it yourself:
http://forums.lucasarts.com/thread.jspa?threadID=90820&tstart=0
Listed in the very LAST subforum, and buried yet another two levels deep under the heading of "Other Discussion" (its not even listed as one of their games, even though THEY OWN IT! LOL). Be sure to take note of the thread title. And by all means, feel free to reg up and leave them a piece of your mind
It depends on how you read it. The things that stood out to me were the creative use of the words "at this time", and the later comment about going forward in their plan to utilise RealID's "powerful" features.
Heres the whole post from the Blizz blue:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968987278&sid=1
The way it reads to me (and i'm not saying its actually how they mean it), is that they're going ahead with RealID's features, without the use of real names in the forums, but eventually (as soon as they find a way around the potential legal ramifications) they'll add in whatever they can legally get away with.
Again, thats just how it reads. To me at least.
At this time!!!! In other words after we ship out the expansion pack and have 6 million units sold. Then we will go back to our plan - --- Blizard. So in other words they want to make sure they get that sold first then let the cards fall.
At this time tells me one thing. They just put it on hold.
LucasArts failed in that they allowed SOE to change the game. They put their faith in a company with experience in creating and maintaining mmo's. To LA, the idea must have looked good on paper, which yeah is their fault. Problem with trying to take away blame from SOE, is that SOE is the company that presented the concepts to LA and are the one's that wrote the code. A competent company may have been able to accomplish what was attempted,but SOE wasn't talented enough to pull it off. Basically LA gave them the opportunity to create this "new and exciting" game, not to create a bug filled mess that was so horrible,most players couldn't bear to stick it out. You could have an idea for the best recipe in the world, but in the hands of a crappy chef the meal fails. It's the chef's fault (SOE), not the idea for the recipe(LA).
Wrong. LucasArts sent a number of "advisors" to the SOE studios in Austin to oversee the restructuring of the game. The guy in charge at the time was Rafael something, or Ray something or other..... damn I can't remember his name now.
SOE pitched some ideas, sure. But the bottom line is, the final decisions were always at the express discretion of LucasArts. NOTHING got approved unless they approved it. And if you believe for a second that SOE didn't want to react to the outcry on their forums after the NGE was announced (2 weeks prior to its actual launch), you'd have to be utterly blind (SOE watched with tied hands as a very large part of their subscriber base very publicly expressed their distatse, and could do absolutely NOTHING to stop it).
BTW, when the owner of a restaurant (LucasArts) TELLS the chef (SOE) to put dog crap on the menu, the chef could certainly quit. Unless legally binding contractual obligations force him to do as hes told.
In other words, your analogy is pretty fail, because it conveniently omits an important variable.
The game was doing fine as it was. Players were enjoying it. It had a healthy subscriber base relative to other games of its type/theme. There were some complaints, sure. But aside from the usual "vocal minority", it was a healthy and thriving game. Jeez, it had a quarter million subs! So ask yourself this:
why would SOE pitch the idea of completely redesigning a game that was doing just fine? Simple. They DIDN'T. LucasArts thought it could do better than it was. But back then, the genre was MUCH smaller than it is now. The available options were few (EQ, DAOC, AO, SWG for the most part), and sci-fi themed games were dwarfed in popularity by the fantasy themed games (about 250k subs, on par with DAOC, dwarfing AO's 60k, and about half of EQ's 500k in 2004..... fantasy was simply more popular than sci-fi and always has been. At a margin of about 3:1).
Gotta wonder tho.... whats gonna happen if/when LucasArts pushes BioWare to make radical changes to SW:TOR well after it launches, if it doesn't contend financially with say.... WoW? I can just imagine all the inevitable /wrists posts
Ask the Blizzard guy who said it was "no big deal" how it felt to have dozens of pizza deliveries arrive at his mothers house. Or what it was like seeing his wifes name, their street address, pictures of his family, and some minor criminal arrest records from his past plastered all over the web.
Give that info to someone bearing a grudge, and the potential dangers are VERY real.
I suggest you go read the original Rubenfeld blog at mmofringe to get some more background on some of your assumptions. Get it from the horse's... umm... mouth so to speak.
SOE were the creators of the NGE, not LA. Yes, LA approved the changes, but it was very clear from that blog entry and things that various SOE toadies have said since then that it was SOE in the driver's seat.
Smed got WoW fever and that is the long and the short of it.
“Is it hard to develop a game such SWG with so much interferences from Lucasarts? ”
Lucasarts was the most pleasant IP owner I have ever worked with. Professional, fast, concise, and willing to bend over backwards to make sure we could do what we wanted to do.
"Plus, all of the liason’s we had on their end went out of their way to streamline the process.
Very positive relationship all-around.
“Why was there such a rush to release the NGE?”
Holiday Season.
“Who is to blame? We want Names!”
That’s not how it works.
I am proud of the work I and everyone else has done over the years since Galaxies started development.
Even though I’m not at SOE anymore I respect the work they do every single day. Some of the best game developers I have ever worked with are still at SOE.
Every day the game continues to run, every day that that SWG has someone playing is something I view as a great accomplishment, and one I’m proud to have been a part of.
So, if you want someone to blame, blame me. This isn’t about finger pointing or passing a buck."
From the "horse's mouth" back in July '08. Source here.
You think he can actually come right out and point a finger at LucasArts (even though he no longer works for SOE)? NO ONE can. "Thats not how it works" is right. Because they'd find themselves (and probably their great-grandkids) wrapped in litigation from now until the end of time. Of course SOE was in the driver's set. They were the studio contracted to build the game LucasArts wanted built.
That is even possible without it. There are ways of getting that same info through pther mean.
Then by all means.....
present it.
It is strange that you think making a comment like that would result in endless litgation, but don't think lucas arts wouldn't be held to ligation for forcing unwanted changes on their licensee. Changes that would negate millions of dollars invested by the licensee, risk their licensed product, risk to their brand and risk their current operations. Obviously this change didn't work and has cost soe millions of dollars and if Lucas Arts forced the change I'm pretty sure soe would expect lucas arts to pay for the losses.
Keeping that in mind I'm not sure Lucas Arts had the power to force change on the game as you seem to think they do. Lucas arts could complain all they want, but if they somehow forced a change of this magnitude they could be held responsible for the outcome and soe would have a pretty good case I think.
Lucas arts had the power of approval. I don't think they had the power to tell soe to spend their own money and developer time to redesign the game and do so in such a way that they would obviously risk their investment, product and playerbase. I'm pretty sure soe could have refused the nge (if it was pitched by lucas arts), continued to run swg as it was even if lucas arts never approved another thing (in which case LucasArts wouldn't be acting in good faith and subject to litigation) and lucas arts would be powerless to do anything about it.
Now I have zero doubt that both companies sat around a room scratching their head at the success put up by world of warcraft and wondered why a star wars game wasn't on that same level. Nor do I doubt they both wanted to get millions of players like wow had, but I don't think Lucas Arts A) forced a change of this nature
forced the change in the way it was handled C) had anyone on the design team that was in a position to come up with the idea for the nge or D) had the authority to force soe to make changes this drastic.
The nge has the stink of soe all over it. All of the elements are signature moves that soe has done in their other mmos. They were really keen to the idea of "revamps" of mmos that were already years into live production. They are the kings of beta testing massive changes to their games in a live environment. They also love to drop bombshells on their playerbase with little to no warning about changes that they know will drive players away. See station exchange, station cash, livegamer, etc for examples of this. You can see the same elements from the nge repeated by soe in their other mmos where lucas arts has no control over and lucas arts can't be blamed for that.
To this day I have yet to hear anyone offer a plausible explaination of how lucas arts could have forced this change or who they had design it. The best i've heard anyone offer is "Well Lucas Arts wasn't happy with the performance of the game so they made soe change it", which is hardly compelling.
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for, but maybe it is?
We were asked to imagine something new and unique. To push it to the next level. Originally, it was specced as a tutorial. A tutorial paired with a new marketing push, new and grandiose relaunch that would recapture the magic that we missed when we first released.
But a tutorial wasn’t enough. We scrambled to come up with something more impressive.
We tested out a new combat system on a whim. I did a quick prototype and we discussed it internally.
The difference was the control scheme, not the rules. You clicked, You shot.
When we demonstrated it, the first comment was “Wooooah….”
And the producer left the room.
He came back shortly and was torn. He knew that we had to make the change. It was THAT much better.
We did a side by side comparison. We tried to play the old system. We couldn’t.
However, we made a mistake.
Somewhere during the discussions it was strongly recommended that we streamline our characters.
People wanted something simpler, more direct, more accessible.
We told them. “If you do this, you will lose all 200k subscribers. It is that significant.”
It was explained that we would gain more due to the marketing push and relaunch.
So, we pushed forward.
[link]
That is from Dan Rubenfields drunken rantings on his own blog.
They keys to note are
that the SWG design team was tasked to make a new tutorial for the game to go along with a marketing push.
the soe staff pressed for the tutorial to be something more than they were asked to do
on a whim they created a new game system and discussed it INTERNALLY
soe demoed it to the producer (not the executive producer, but the producer which would be an soe employee)
the rest is history
Obviously lucas arts got on board with the idea, so they are just as much to blame for it happening, but you can clearly see that the NGE was not forced on soe. It was something dreamed up by soe.
to the OP.....
lets see..
Manipulating MY PERSONAL information (Blizz)
Changing a game that they have full right to do so (SOE)
Wierd analogy
First off, if SOE quit, they would be without a game. Secondly, alot of the devs from SOE left when the NGE was announced, or got fired for being vocally against it. From what I know, some of the devs were ordered to shill how great the changes were on numerous websites and then they were allowed to keep their jobs and move on to working on other games, such as DC and Agency. The majority of the regular SWG devs were working on the Mustafar expansion, while some extra help was brought in the help work behind the scenes, unknown to the regular devs,which caused their uproar in the first place. They were hired using money SOE expected to recieve from the expansion. Well obviously that didn't work out too great due to them having to fork out returns to customers that bought the expansion before the change. Devs leaving or being fired due to disagreeing with changes is the reason the dev team started to get so small. After they left, SOE didn't have the money to hire quality replacements due to them still owing money to the hired help they pulled on to work on NGE behind the scenes. The few devs that stuck around were the one's with families that needed the money and the few stragglers that got to stick around after being hired on as temps and offered permanent positions. You can believe this or not, who cares honestly if you don't, but it was all SOE's idea.
Ever heard of a "non-disclosure agreement"? Sure you have.....
You're also quick to point out the risks to and expectations of LucasArts, and equally quick in ignoring the flip side of that coin. Do you really believe that LucasArts didn't lose big money from this fiasco?
So, with all your infinite wisdom and knowledge of single-sided contract law, answer this:
With the potential millions in lost revenue this obviously cost LucasArts, AND their investors and shareholders, why has there never been litigation against SOE?
Take the blinders off.
You can try to lay the sole blame at the feet of SOE all you like. But the truth is that LucasArts didn't even make an attempt at setting things right for their investors and shareholders. Both of which come WELL before the disgruntled fans that exploded all over the web. Hell, they barely give the game any notice at all on their own website! (a single thread buried deep in their forums, and a link to the SOE site off their main page). Keep in mind that the SOE/LucasArts contract for SWG's license has already expired, and been renewed at least once. Twice if you believe the "3 year" scenario. And at those points, it was at the SOLE discretion of LucasArts whether to renew or not.
Oh, whats this? Co-exist? LOL.... hes kidding, right?
Jake Neri: I guess the true answer to that is, honestly, time will tell. We've always said that we'll support Galaxies while the fans support Galaxies. So I think that's probably the true answer. While there are still people playing it, we're still interested in having it going.
I find that a bit disingenuous considering their very minimal acknowledgement of its very existence. My guess is that once BioWares SW:TOR cannibilizes SWG's remaining fanbase to near nothing (assumng it lives up to the expectations), SOE's license for SWG will not be further renewed.
And if SW:TOR doesn't live up to the expectations? We'll certainly find out soon enough.
First of all I am not laying sole blame on SOE. I blame lucas art just as much for allowing this to happen, being just as greedy and turning their back on their customers just as much as soe did. However I don't give soe a pass on initiating the nge, of creating the idea and proposing it. If soe had done their job in the first place there wouldn't be a need for either revamps of the games design. Soe dreamed up the idea and specifically stated by Dan Rubenfield. So your question was answered, correct?
My point was that lucas arts doesn't have the power to force those types of changes and they didn't as stated by developers. You have yet to offer anything to support your theory that lucas forced soe into the nge. Care to share something that has a little more proof than "people can't talk about it because of non-disclosures, so the lack of proof is proof itself"?
Second, why didn't lucas arts sue soe. Thats such an easy answer it begs if you have any understaning of the situation. Considering lucas arts has to put their stamp of approval on anything that goes into the game, I'm not sure what grounds they wound sue on? Are you trying to say soe is responsible for damages on a game change that lucas arts approved of? You can't be serious can you?
Why didn't Lucas Arts didn't try to make things right for its share holders, because it isn't publically traded? There is no need for them to address the public with their actions, because it is a private company.
Not that they didn't try 3 times to make the game work for their "investors"
1)release of swg
2)combat upgrade
3)nge,
At some point a company has to come to terms that their partner is incapable of making the needed changes to turn a product around. They can't revoke the license and each revamp attempt soe made only caused more harm to the game and the brand, so what is the point? Soe had three chances to make the game work and failed with each one. I completely understand why lucas arts has not allowed soe to make any more major changes to the game and they basically treat it as if it doesn't exist.
As for the length of the contract and it being resigned, prove it. Do you have a link with a press release about the renewed contract? I highly doubt soe signed a contract that only lasted a few years and risked millions building a game in such a manner.
Maybe so but they didn't change the game because it was doing "great". No, the truth was SWG was already in decline in it's second year. If I'm not mistaken, that whole CU / NGE thing was in developement for a pretty long time before it launched in it's second year. Let's face it, SWG capped at 300k which is nothing by todays standards. Hell, even WAR hit 900k or so at launch...No, SWG had issues from day one considering the franchise it had behind it.
I wouldn't say "great steps to improve it"...but it was very clear what they had wasn't any good and they had to do something.
Anyway, it's 2010, this happened in 2005 so what difference does it make? SWG has outlived many MMO's at this point.
SWG started to really decline about 6 months after release in a perrty big way. This was right around they time the dev team paniced and introduced the holocron grind in an attempt to give players something to do. The combat upgrade (according to some who worked on it) actually stopped the player loss and saw a small increase in population for a time at least. The NGE obviously undid that and started loosing players again in a whole new way.
SWG was pretty successful at release and it was still the second largest mmo in north america. The reason is never took off, was due to the horrid condition that the game was in. Not just at release, but continuously in a poor state of things with each major revamp only makng things worse.
It is just absurd for soe/lucas arts to expect a game that is of such poor quality to have the power to draw in more players when they couldn't even retain what they had. Not once did either company try to correct the true problem of the game and as such it never truely had a chance to live up to its potential and no amount of revamps would fix the game as long as they ignorned what was truely wrong. They simply never listened to the players which is why the game has gone to hell and back several times by repeating the same mistakes over and over.
A powerful IP can only do so much for a game and bringing up warhammer is a very appropriate example since both games pretty much share similar circumstances.
I think a lot of station pass mmos have outlived their peers at this point. Had they been independant mmos, most would have closed shop by now.
Prove what? That the industry standard is 3 years on average? IP licenses aren't something their owners give out on a long term basis. Hell, Lucas only gives Hasbro a max license period of 10 years for actual physical products. LucasArts may not be a publicly traded corporation, but they could certainly be held accountable to the shareholders of their partners if it were ever revealed that it was them that was responsible for the loss of revenue. The fact that they weren't is certainly suspect.
Don't be so naive. LucasArts bound SOE by NDA as part of their license contract. And they'd have been fools not to. And you can bet they afforded themselves that same luxury with BioWare. So if/when THAT game goes tits-up, it won't have any effect on the next piece of crap they shovel into the market through their next partnership.
Oh, and the name I couldn't remember earlier was Julio Torres. He was LucasArts executive producer for SWG prior to, and during the NGE planning and implementation stages. (he started working on SWG with JTL)
You should read the interview he did with GameSpy back in Nov. '05, which CLEARLY shows that the NGE changes to SWG were AT LEAST as much the responsibility of LucasArts, as it was SOE (yeah, I know, you yourself aren't claiming otherwise... so that bit isn't directed at you specifically). Most notable though, is this comment:
JT: Our goal is to make Star Wars Galaxies as fun, exciting, and accessible to all current, new, and prospective players as possible. When developing these new enhancements, our focus was on making the game more fun for everyone, including our veteran/current players.
Here, i'll save you the search:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-galaxies-2005/667893p1.html
And maybe read the "producers letter" he posted on SOE's site:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/players/news_archive.vm?id=66857&month=112005
Its pretty clear that he was neck deep in the whole thing, AS it was being developed and implemented. So who really proposed and initiated the NGE may never really be known. I tend to believe it was LucasArts, mainly because mmo studios don't normally make massive changes like that to an already live game. Especially when it was obviously performing reasonably in the mmo market.
You can bet LucasArts will have a whole team of Julio Torres' sticking their hands into SW:TOR. Just hope those that buy and sub to it don't have to experience their own NGE if its suddenly decided that it needs to be "more fun" for everyone a year or more after its release.
Whats done is done, and nothing can change it. So enough of this. It certainly doesn't hold any comparison in severity to what Activision/Blizzard tried to pull on their subscribers with RealID. At least SOE never tried to offer my personal information to the general public to make money.