A complete lack of creativity, the ability to look investors and customers in the eye and lie at will, no morals to get in the way when you inevitably cut the feature list by 75% on launch day.
However, 99% of people that want ot make games, can't produce that remaining 25% of the feature list.
Without that ability, the morals and creativity are irrelevant.
I'm beeing realistic. Since the above question is not one whitout answers - even a boot like Google can tell him all that he needs to know... That fact that he put it, is like he expects "a magic answer"... Something like "you go here (a site or an academy) and you'll be in MMO industry in no time... There is no short/easy answer for that - well, not one that he's expecting, cause I don't belive he's interested in "mopping the floor".
Just look at was he's got to give - "he likes to play MMO's".
Based on most MMO titles, I'd say 90% of MMO developers don't like to plat MMO's - since it's prety obvious the "MMO industry wouldn't be filled with so much crap and so many clones - if they did..." So getting under succesful developers "TAKES REAL SKILL" which you don't get from playing the games, but from a passion from design, programing, markering or being a good story writer".
But hey, this is my opinion - maybe I'm to old, so like to judge things based on facts not false hopes. On the other hand, he's probably real young - so at his age there's plenty of room for mistakes, he might learn something from them - yet, the way he put it (not doing any research just puting the questin outhere) I stick with with my main opinion.
May I suggest looking into Microsoft's XNA framework? It's a good way to learn how art and programming work. Start with 2d (Windows and/or Xbox). See what goes into it and which part of game development you fit into. There are many tutorials and resources and you don't need to buy anything to get started. If you aren't comfortable with going through some C# language tutorials and don't want to code, then there are forums to look for working for others. You can learn that way...be it art, story, sound, etc.
Good luck!
Disclaimer: This is not a troll post and is not here to promote any negative energy. Although this may be a criticism, it is not meant to offend anyone. If a moderator feels the post is inappropriate, please remove it immediately before it is subject to consideration for a warning. Thank you.
XH4ID3N, I agree with your statements except this one:
“Based on most MMO titles, I'd say 90% of MMO developers don't like to plat MMO's - since it's prety obvious the "MMO industry wouldn't be filled with so much crap and so many clones - if they did..."”
A game as a final product is a result of team efforts. Game developers, artists, designers represent only a part of this team: there are publishers, financial department, and others that are not directly involved in game creation. A company has a certain budget, time limits. A man should love his profession especially if it
requires certain creativity. Check video interviews with game developers: they are certainly passionate people how love what they are doing and playing their games a lot. Game studious have special groups of testers that are searching for bugs. It is not serious to expect absolute freedom in industry and RL in general. I don’t think that there is “so much crap”. Term “clone” is also very controversial: e.g. I might play a “clone” because it for instance has just better or different graphic, but would never play the “original” game. Consider also technical limitations (game engine programming, 3D modeling, networking), end-users/players/customers are usually not aware of these details/restrictions.
If your interested in programming check out http://gamedev.net I have actually talked with some people in the gaming industry there in the irc chat. Its mainly programming and they won't help you if you can't help your self. Other than that, browse the forums and hopefully you'd find something worth while there.
I should also note that Unity is a good engine and it's free. You don't have to pay a license until you make 100k I believe. That is the engine I am going to start out in soon.
First off outstanding mathematic skills and a degree in 3d art, coding stuff like that. Then you need to find a good company note: good this means no Activision, EA or Soe if you don#t want to threated like a working-slave.
Personally I wouldn't recommend working in the MMO industry with all the stupid big studios shareholders, investors not interested in deep gameplay.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I would like any information that can help me out. Im from Australia and i want to pursue the video game industry, specifically the MMORPG industry. I have a really big passion for MMO's, I have a large collection such as WAR, WOW, Aion, AoC, PWI, RoM, DDO and PWI.
So if anyone knows what qualifacations i need and how i can get there, it would be greatly apreciated!
kikan
Your priority should be to learn and hone a skill - 3D modelling, writing, level building, coding, etc. Get examples of your work out there. Work on mod teams, contribute to gaming sites, show that you not only can do great work but you work great in a team.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Thankyou for all of your help and info everyone, it is really apreciated.
Just found out a while ago that oblivion has things to do with modding. So i started with the basics and created some quests and Companiens within the game. My plan so far is to at least create a weapon in blender. I will let you know when i am complete and provide you all with a screenshot.
A lot of misinformation on this thread coupled with a few good guesses. I work in the industry, particularly on MMO's. First some basics then I'll tell you how I got into the industry after I played EQ over 10 years ago and decided it's what I wanted to do with my life.
First, the types of roles you can get in a MMO industry job:
1. Testing. Probably the most common way in. Often you just need to be really good at games, very aware of their pro's and con's and during your interview be able point to several bugs you found, bug reports you filed and testing process. Entry level jobs in testing in the game industry do NOT pay well, sometimes lower than a job at McDonalds (or on par). This job often involves long hours of tedious repeated boredom, it is NOT playing games for a living. It is testing. Very different. Once you learn the difference you're ready for this career. The upside is, you get to meet a ton of interesting people and testers can work their way up the ranks.
2. Programmer. Believe it or not, this is NOT the most common position ont he team. But if you can write and develop applications in serious programming languages and prove it by passing a skills test or submitting examples of your work, a good way in. C++, C#, Flash are all good areas to look into. Java, and web programming languages to a much lesser extent. However, a long career in application development can lead to a job in games development because you'll have experience with the SDLC (software development lifecycle).
3. Artist. This is a very common way in as well. MMO teams employ tons of artists. Modeling, texturing and animation are all areas to gain skill in and often there will be specialists on any large team. Tools of the trade tend to be 3DStudio Max or Maya. Texturing tools are varied but it wouldn't hurt to pick up ZBrush or similar tools as well. If you can build models, textures and animations and make them work in something like the Unreal engine, you're off to a good start. You'll need a very strong portfolio full of examples of your work from all kinds of genre's. Concept artists also get plenty of jobs in the MMO industry, so if you're talented at art, a good way to go. Prepare to put out a lot of resumes however, competition is fierce.
4. Audio. Probably the hardest job to get because there are so few. Audio engineers are a special breed however and good ones are hard to find. Learning how to sample and create music, make original audio affects and take advantage of things like FMOD are a big plus.
5. Content/Design: Many times when someone says they want to work in the game industry this is what they mean. They want to design games. Let me just say this, this job choice Is NOT easy. Design is the hardest to prove any kind of credibility, a position driven by opinion and belief far more than fact. Junior designers get some of the most tedious jobs in the game industry and frankly, no one wants to know you're opinion. Some day, a long way from now, you might get to design a game where your ideas matter, but your first few years as a designer are basically going to be being a slave to your seniors, working on spreadsheets, editting documents and taking notes in meetings. You CANNOT just hop on board and design your own game. In fact, even once you've got 10 years under your belt, odds are you won't be designing your own game. You get to design your own game A) If you're obscenely rich and/or connected to and control millions of dollars or you are a high up "idea man" exec for a large publishing conglomerate. That's about it.
6. Management/production. This is an important role and you can get in here at the ground level as an associate producer. Though it's far more common that you end up here after working 2 or more of teh above roles for at least 5 years a piece. This is about budgeting, planning, hiring, staff management and generally laying your neck on the line in terms of schedule and delivery. Being able to manage an MMO team is probably one of the hardest jobs in the industry. Afterall, it's your arse if the game ships and doesn't sell. Big time pressure. Big time potential rewards.
Now that you know the basic roles available here's how you get into them:
1) Get a college degree. Not necessarily the fastest way in, or the best, but a good foundation. If you want to code/program then Comp Sci is the way to go. In fact a number of the roles above have a lot of parallel degrees. Some words of wisdom: an MBA is a good management degree but probably means didly squat for production and management in the games industry. Art degrees aren't bad for art jobs, though go somewhere that focuses on 3D Modeling and concepting. There are no really good degrees for game design, certainly several schools offer them but design tends to require "experience". If you want to get a degree in college and end up in game design, I recommend programming (comp sci) along with a supplimental game studies.
2) Go to a game development school. I recommend places like Full Sail or Guildhall. Both are well known, well funded and work on job placement post graduation. Despite what's been posted here these schools are NOT shams and many game companies hire junior roles from these schools (though not all). The downsides to these schools is they don't always teach practical skills and often what you learn here as to be unlearned when you get into the industry.
3) Experience. This can be combined with any other way in. Work somewhere in the software development field. Programming, management, design or testing. All apply. Get several years of it under your belt and come highly recommend, make sure you're an adaptive learner. There's no easy way into the game industry if you're coming from another career path but a highly experienced resume will always be looked at.
Another way to build experience is as several folks said here. learn by doing. Build games for the IPhone, or XNA (Xbox). Make flash games for websites. Any of these appraoches will lead to basic skills in programming, art, and game design. If you can manage to make a good game (and if you're a good gamer you'll know what one is) you CAN get noticed and at the very least, have a great portfolio. Better yet, if you get good at this, especially IPhone game development, you can make a tidy salary (I know a few guys that LEFT the MMO industry after making just a handful of IPhone apps and started clearing $200k a year).
4) I hate to say this. But getting into the game business is often about who you know. The most dissapointing aspect here is that most game development teams will hire people they worked with before, or know personally first, even before looking at more experienced resumes. This item trumps any of the above by a large margin. If you get into the industry expect to find many examples of the "Bosses son/daughter" or the leads "best friend" etc. Sometimes these jobs come in the form of office managers, front desk workers, IT staff, or testers, but it is a VERY common occurance and way in. Get used to it. Also expect these folks to have higher positions than you, better pay and more often than not, your senior.
Boy, that's a wall of crit text, but it's the information you're looking for. Now how did I get into the industry? I went to College, I got a degree in Computer Science. I wanted to make video games since I was 12. I graduated college in 1998 with my bachelor of science and discovered A) no game company wanted to hire me (a comp sci degree meant nothing to the business back then and it doesn't mean much more now per se) and the internet was booming. So I got snapped up by a software consultancy. The next 7-8 years I built applications for big Fortune 500 companies. I learned database design and development, java web application, systems support, systems administration, testing and applicaiton performance modeling and testing. I must admit, I got quite good at what I did. I was obscenely well paid. Every 2 or 3 years I'd try to apply to MMO game companies, mostly trying to get in as a database programmer (the most relevant skill I had). I applied at Sony, EA, Origin (back in the day), etc. I did manage to get interviews at Origin for Ultima Online 2, but they decided my C++ skills weren't sharp enough (missed 1 of 6 questions on the skills test FYI, point: you must get them all right, most of the people applying will).
Time ticked on and honestly in many ways I lost a lot of hope. As time went on I went from junior programmer, to senior, to an architect, even Sr. Architect in my career. In my non-gaming profession I was considered too good at Application development to be wasted with programming. I started managing larger and larger teams, working on design, project planning and working with the client. Sometimes I'd be assigned solo (like my 2 years as a peformance analyst) for high risk engagements. Translation: I was a big deal. But to the game industry, I barely qualified for a junior position as a developer.
During this time I continued to play a lot of MMO's. And got lucky. I made a lot of friends, leading guilds and playing mmo's. Believe it or not, despite the negativity here, a LOT of game developers play games. Odds are if you've been in a top tier raiding guild in WoW, you've been guilded with a few MMO developers (yes, many of us are quite good at them too). I made friends. Real friends, the kind you talk to offline, not just online. Turns out a few of them were in the industry. They didn't tell me right away (not usually something you're keen to reveal right off the bat). One of them would often talk to me about his work technical problems and I would talk to him about mine. One day he took a new job at a startup MMO company and for giggles he submitted my resume as a DB programmer on his team. I got an interview, and, sadly, I was turned down. At least for that job, mainly because they feared they could not pay me anything close to what I was making. So they offerred me a job as their IT Director.
Director! Guess what, even at a role that was in some ways a promotion for me (higher title) I took nearly a %30 pay cut to get my first job in the game industry. I worked there for 3 years, sadly it didn't work out (ran out of money amongst other things). And my game career ended. IT Directors are not in hot demand in the games industry though while I was there I did a few things to help out. I worked on build tools for the dev team (actually developed a few nifty ones), helped design, code and build the games web site, worked on the account system design, etc. So I made some contacts. When that job ended I went back to consulting, first tried my own business but it was a bad economy. Then went back to my former employer who was ectstatic to have me back and have the experience I had from the games industry (note eexperience flows much better out of the game industry then in). A year later, an opportunity came up to work as a senior developer where I am now on network implementation. I took it in a heart beat. Thanks to my previous game industry experience I commanded a better salary, but I still ended up taking nearly a %35 pay cut.
So there it is. 22 years ago I had a dream to work in the industry when I was twelve. I went to college and got a 4 year degree in Comp Science. It took almost 7 years after that to get my first chance and foot in the door. It took another 4-5 years to get a job directly working on a game title. There are dozens of ways in the industry and despite my resume my first chance still required me to "know" someone to help give me an edge during the interview process and even then I didn't get a job working directly on the title.
If I had to do it over again, i would have spent more time in college making homemade games rather than playing them. Same with high school, though in high school I did write a lot of my own games, I should have continued it. A lot of the stuff I made then would've been a shoe-in for IPhone games now. One of my big mistakes was taking a nice paying job in consulting (it was the internet craze) rather then hunting for a low paying tester job in the games industry. That decision alone veered me off course for almost 5-7 years. Though I probably ate and lived a lot better as a result.
I won't lie, entry level jobs in the game business are not glamorous. They are hard, difficult jobs. They pay extremely poorly. You do NOT get to do what you want to do. In return, you're working on games! Probably one of the coolest jobs in the world in terms of what you get to do. The only other bad news is, well, there are more bad games then good. Your career in the business will be based on how many titles you've shipped. You may have to suffer through a lot of bad teams int he process. Bad teams = bad games every time. And as I said, there are more bad games then good. Every bad game has an equally bad story behind it. Every great game oten has some of the scariest career/job moments behind them too. Great teams though, perservere and deliver great product. But even great teams can fall apart for the silliest reasons.
To those I worked with in the past at the first job, who know me and read these forums (yes game developers read these forums, even MMORPG's negative as all hell ones), I miss you guys and while I'm happy with where I'm at, not a day doesn't go by where I didn't wish that first stint worked out better than it did.
I've done QA and they do take apprenticeships quite often, but they don't just take anyone (unless they like you enough, see above point). If you went to college, that's an in. If you didn't but show initiiative in learning on your own and having a few lesser flash games under your belt, just as good. Having a ton of great ideas for games and lots of footnotes to show for it, get lost.
Design may be one tacet of the business, but the industry's no. 1 calling card is over software development. Having zero to little knowledge in that department will get you nowhere. QA is not going to give you any practical skills, but it will give you analytical skills that help in that department. I didn't know jack about games until I did a run on a project.
These are all things you can figure out on your own by unlocking the dev tools in any released game and fudging around with it. Though it makes more sense with context wrapped around it, like knowing what to look for.
My question to the above poster, because he seems even more knowledgeable than I, is "what is the best route for a writer/game designer to get into the industy?". I plan to try and get published for stuff that isn't even software-related, things from books to board games, but wonder if there's any hope of getting into the software realm with very few practical skills. I need to make an effort to take baby steps into flash, but don't know where to start either. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
A lot of misinformation on this thread coupled with a few good guesses. I work in the industry, particularly on MMO's. First some basics then I'll tell you how I got into the industry after I played EQ over 10 years ago and decided it's what I wanted to do with my life. First, the types of roles you can get in a MMO industry job: 1. Testing. Probably the most common way in. Often you just need to be really good at games, very aware of their pro's and con's and during your interview be able point to several bugs you found, bug reports you filed and testing process. Entry level jobs in testing in the game industry do NOT pay well, sometimes lower than a job at McDonalds (or on par). This job often involves long hours of tedious repeated boredom, it is NOT playing games for a living. It is testing. Very different. Once you learn the difference you're ready for this career. The upside is, you get to meet a ton of interesting people and testers can work their way up the ranks. 2. Programmer. Believe it or not, this is NOT the most common position ont he team. But if you can write and develop applications in serious programming languages and prove it by passing a skills test or submitting examples of your work, a good way in. C++, C#, Flash are all good areas to look into. Java, and web programming languages to a much lesser extent. However, a long career in application development can lead to a job in games development because you'll have experience with the SDLC (software development lifecycle). 3. Artist. This is a very common way in as well. MMO teams employ tons of artists. Modeling, texturing and animation are all areas to gain skill in and often there will be specialists on any large team. Tools of the trade tend to be 3DStudio Max or Maya. Texturing tools are varied but it wouldn't hurt to pick up ZBrush or similar tools as well. If you can build models, textures and animations and make them work in something like the Unreal engine, you're off to a good start. You'll need a very strong portfolio full of examples of your work from all kinds of genre's. Concept artists also get plenty of jobs in the MMO industry, so if you're talented at art, a good way to go. Prepare to put out a lot of resumes however, competition is fierce. 4. Audio. Probably the hardest job to get because there are so few. Audio engineers are a special breed however and good ones are hard to find. Learning how to sample and create music, make original audio affects and take advantage of things like FMOD are a big plus. 5. Content/Design: Many times when someone says they want to work in the game industry this is what they mean. They want to design games. Let me just say this, this job choice Is NOT easy. Design is the hardest to prove any kind of credibility, a position driven by opinion and belief far more than fact. Junior designers get some of the most tedious jobs in the game industry and frankly, no one wants to know you're opinion. Some day, a long way from now, you might get to design a game where your ideas matter, but your first few years as a designer are basically going to be being a slave to your seniors, working on spreadsheets, editting documents and taking notes in meetings. You CANNOT just hop on board and design your own game. In fact, even once you've got 10 years under your belt, odds are you won't be designing your own game. You get to design your own game A) If you're obscenely rich and/or connected to and control millions of dollars or you are a high up "idea man" exec for a large publishing conglomerate. That's about it. 6. Management/production. This is an important role and you can get in here at the ground level as an associate producer. Though it's far more common that you end up here after working 2 or more of teh above roles for at least 5 years a piece. This is about budgeting, planning, hiring, staff management and generally laying your neck on the line in terms of schedule and delivery. Being able to manage an MMO team is probably one of the hardest jobs in the industry. Afterall, it's your arse if the game ships and doesn't sell. Big time pressure. Big time potential rewards. Now that you know the basic roles available here's how you get into them: 1) Get a college degree. Not necessarily the fastest way in, or the best, but a good foundation. If you want to code/program then Comp Sci is the way to go. In fact a number of the roles above have a lot of parallel degrees. Some words of wisdom: an MBA is a good management degree but probably means didly squat for production and management in the games industry. Art degrees aren't bad for art jobs, though go somewhere that focuses on 3D Modeling and concepting. There are no really good degrees for game design, certainly several schools offer them but design tends to require "experience". If you want to get a degree in college and end up in game design, I recommend programming (comp sci) along with a supplimental game studies. 2) Go to a game development school. I recommend places like Full Sail or Guildhall. Both are well known, well funded and work on job placement post graduation. Despite what's been posted here these schools are NOT shams and many game companies hire junior roles from these schools (though not all). The downsides to these schools is they don't always teach practical skills and often what you learn here as to be unlearned when you get into the industry. 3) Experience. This can be combined with any other way in. Work somewhere in the software development field. Programming, management, design or testing. All apply. Get several years of it under your belt and come highly recommend, make sure you're an adaptive learner. There's no easy way into the game industry if you're coming from another career path but a highly experienced resume will always be looked at. Another way to build experience is as several folks said here. learn by doing. Build games for the IPhone, or XNA (Xbox). Make flash games for websites. Any of these appraoches will lead to basic skills in programming, art, and game design. If you can manage to make a good game (and if you're a good gamer you'll know what one is) you CAN get noticed and at the very least, have a great portfolio. Better yet, if you get good at this, especially IPhone game development, you can make a tidy salary (I know a few guys that LEFT the MMO industry after making just a handful of IPhone apps and started clearing $200k a year). 4) I hate to say this. But getting into the game business is often about who you know. The most dissapointing aspect here is that most game development teams will hire people they worked with before, or know personally first, even before looking at more experienced resumes. This item trumps any of the above by a large margin. If you get into the industry expect to find many examples of the "Bosses son/daughter" or the leads "best friend" etc. Sometimes these jobs come in the form of office managers, front desk workers, IT staff, or testers, but it is a VERY common occurance and way in. Get used to it. Also expect these folks to have higher positions than you, better pay and more often than not, your senior.
Boy, that's a wall of crit text, but it's the information you're looking for. Now how did I get into the industry? I went to College, I got a degree in Computer Science. I wanted to make video games since I was 12. I graduated college in 1998 with my bachelor of science and discovered A) no game company wanted to hire me (a comp sci degree meant nothing to the business back then and it doesn't mean much more now per se) and the internet was booming. So I got snapped up by a software consultancy. The next 7-8 years I built applications for big Fortune 500 companies. I learned database design and development, java web application, systems support, systems administration, testing and applicaiton performance modeling and testing. I must admit, I got quite good at what I did. I was obscenely well paid. Every 2 or 3 years I'd try to apply to MMO game companies, mostly trying to get in as a database programmer (the most relevant skill I had). I applied at Sony, EA, Origin (back in the day), etc. I did manage to get interviews at Origin for Ultima Online 2, but they decided my C++ skills weren't sharp enough (missed 1 of 6 questions on the skills test FYI, point: you must get them all right, most of the people applying will). Time ticked on and honestly in many ways I lost a lot of hope. As time went on I went from junior programmer, to senior, to an architect, even Sr. Architect in my career. In my non-gaming profession I was considered too good at Application development to be wasted with programming. I started managing larger and larger teams, working on design, project planning and working with the client. Sometimes I'd be assigned solo (like my 2 years as a peformance analyst) for high risk engagements. Translation: I was a big deal. But to the game industry, I barely qualified for a junior position as a developer. During this time I continued to play a lot of MMO's. And got lucky. I made a lot of friends, leading guilds and playing mmo's. Believe it or not, despite the negativity here, a LOT of game developers play games. Odds are if you've been in a top tier raiding guild in WoW, you've been guilded with a few MMO developers (yes, many of us are quite good at them too). I made friends. Real friends, the kind you talk to offline, not just online. Turns out a few of them were in the industry. They didn't tell me right away (not usually something you're keen to reveal right off the bat). One of them would often talk to me about his work technical problems and I would talk to him about mine. One day he took a new job at a startup MMO company and for giggles he submitted my resume as a DB programmer on his team. I got an interview, and, sadly, I was turned down. At least for that job, mainly because they feared they could not pay me anything close to what I was making. So they offerred me a job as their IT Director. Director! Guess what, even at a role that was in some ways a promotion for me (higher title) I took nearly a %30 pay cut to get my first job in the game industry. I worked there for 3 years, sadly it didn't work out (ran out of money amongst other things). And my game career ended. IT Directors are not in hot demand in the games industry though while I was there I did a few things to help out. I worked on build tools for the dev team (actually developed a few nifty ones), helped design, code and build the games web site, worked on the account system design, etc. So I made some contacts. When that job ended I went back to consulting, first tried my own business but it was a bad economy. Then went back to my former employer who was ectstatic to have me back and have the experience I had from the games industry (note eexperience flows much better out of the game industry then in). A year later, an opportunity came up to work as a senior developer where I am now on network implementation. I took it in a heart beat. Thanks to my previous game industry experience I commanded a better salary, but I still ended up taking nearly a %35 pay cut.
So there it is. 22 years ago I had a dream to work in the industry when I was twelve. I went to college and got a 4 year degree in Comp Science. It took almost 7 years after that to get my first chance and foot in the door. It took another 4-5 years to get a job directly working on a game title. There are dozens of ways in the industry and despite my resume my first chance still required me to "know" someone to help give me an edge during the interview process and even then I didn't get a job working directly on the title. If I had to do it over again, i would have spent more time in college making homemade games rather than playing them. Same with high school, though in high school I did write a lot of my own games, I should have continued it. A lot of the stuff I made then would've been a shoe-in for IPhone games now. One of my big mistakes was taking a nice paying job in consulting (it was the internet craze) rather then hunting for a low paying tester job in the games industry. That decision alone veered me off course for almost 5-7 years. Though I probably ate and lived a lot better as a result. I won't lie, entry level jobs in the game business are not glamorous. They are hard, difficult jobs. They pay extremely poorly. You do NOT get to do what you want to do. In return, you're working on games! Probably one of the coolest jobs in the world in terms of what you get to do. The only other bad news is, well, there are more bad games then good. Your career in the business will be based on how many titles you've shipped. You may have to suffer through a lot of bad teams int he process. Bad teams = bad games every time. And as I said, there are more bad games then good. Every bad game has an equally bad story behind it. Every great game oten has some of the scariest career/job moments behind them too. Great teams though, perservere and deliver great product. But even great teams can fall apart for the silliest reasons. To those I worked with in the past at the first job, who know me and read these forums (yes game developers read these forums, even MMORPG's negative as all hell ones), I miss you guys and while I'm happy with where I'm at, not a day doesn't go by where I didn't wish that first stint worked out better than it did.
Wow 22 years, i must say you have a lot of patience to actully wait that long to get in the game industry. That is very helpful for me and i really apreciate what you just wrote. It seems that i havnt even a glimpse of what will happen when i finally finish school and pursue my desire for making games. Im half way through desining a sword for oblivion (blender) and when im done, i would really apreciate if you can check it out, comment and give me some points. I want to do programing, not artistic things since im not really good with art. Since you are in the gaming industry, could you give me some pointers on where i might get programs that can help me make flash and i-phone games, without spending a dime. I know i might be asking a lot, but my desire for creating something that people can get lost in, just forget about all there problems, and imagine that they are some great warrior wielding a powerful sword, or a mage with the most powerfull magic. Thats what i want people to feel, thats why i love playing games.
Thank you and everyone for all the wonderful help you have given me.
I would like any information that can help me out. Im from Australia and i want to pursue the video game industry, specifically the MMORPG industry. I have a really big passion for MMO's, I have a large collection such as WAR, WOW, Aion, AoC, PWI, RoM, DDO and PWI.
So if anyone knows what qualifacations i need and how i can get there, it would be greatly apreciated!
kikan
A willing to sacrifice your life expectancy due to the lifestyle you shall live working in the MMO industry as a developer. All those years sat down looking at computer monitors being stress and eating rubbish fast food diet with many late nights.
A lot of misinformation on this thread coupled with a few good guesses. I work in the industry, particularly on MMO's.
That's nothing to brag about right now.
It's amazing who companies will hire and put in a position of responsibility. Brad McQuaid, Furor, Raph Koster. Hell all Furor did was run a "uber" guild and act like a nerd's nerd on his webpage. I don't even know what Brad did but even after getting involved in EQ I have a feeling it was alot less than what he was given credit for.
Why not find a job you like and if the opportunity to develop a game comes around, you can take it, but many people are just setting themselves up for disappointment. There aren't that many jobs in the game industry, even though the industry is gettting bigger, it's still a very small field.
A lot of misinformation on this thread coupled with a few good guesses. I work in the industry, particularly on MMO's. First some basics then I'll tell you how I got into the industry after I played EQ over 10 years ago and decided it's what I wanted to do with my life.
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Thanks for the good read Vestas. I thought I had a good idea of what it would take to get into the industry, but I can see that I saved myself a lot of pain by giving up early... I started on my computer science degree partly because I wanted to make games back in 1999. I looked into what it would take to get such a job, and started working on a portfolio. I discovered quite early on that while I liked programming, and was quite good at it, it was not something I enjoyed doing on my spare time. If anything, it made me appreciate the time I spent away from the computer more, so I just finished my education and got a regular job.
There have been times when I've wondered what it would be like to have the kind of job I dreamed of 10-15 years ago, but I think I'm happier playing games on my spare time while working 37,5 hour weeks with paid overtime. Great tips, and food for thought for those that are still dreaming, though
[quote]but I think I'm happier playing games on my spare time while working 37,5 hour weeks with paid overtime. Great tips, and food for thought for those that are still dreaming, though [/quote]
What's funny is my previous consulting job was no free ride. I was often working 80-110 hour work weeks as a consultant, not counting the travel time. And while the hours in the game industry are certainly not "40 hour work weeks" it feels like I get a lot more free time now then I did consulting. I really didn't touch on the rough sides of game development, like the long hours, always being behind schedule etc because well, that's not the focus of the response. A good chunk of the reason game devs work so hard is because they love what they do. You kind of have to in order to work in this industry as nine times out of ten, you're worth more elsewhere.
One of the craziest ways into the industry I know of,is one of the guys on my team is literally a rocket scientist. He used to consult and work for places like NASA and Lockheed Martin, doing sattelite simulations and analysis. He's now a simulation guy for our AI systems. Funny how the skills translate really well.
Another way in that I didn't mention. My current technical director got his start in the industry by giving up on his college degree. He went to work for a local game development company FOR FREE. For nearly two years. That's right, he took an unpaid internship. He worked on solitaire games and casual games long before they were popular or really revenue generating. He then worked his way through progressively better jobs, but the firs paying one he got paid minimum wage. It took him years before he got where he is now. He did it be cultivating contacts, getting better at his skillset and by being a very smart guy. So if you have the means you can always beat down the doors of local companies and offer yourself for free as an intern. Some may take you, but you'll need a resume that proves some skill. He had a portfolio of little games he'd made himself.
As for where to pick up tools to learn skills. Literally go get the IPhone SDK (it's available from apple) and/or the XNA developers suite from microsoft (you can get Visual Studio Express for free specifically for this purpose). There are dozens of websites and several good books out there to teach yourself. If you make something you want people to see, you'll need to do a lot of self advertising. It never hurts to start a blog commenting on your experiences as you design and build your own game if that's what you want to do. If you *are* going to be public about your take on game development just be careful what you say. Keep it up beat, positive and interesting. Negativity has gotten a few highly notable people some jobs, but generally it is less effective for your average joe than just informative and upbeat posting. What most people forget about those who have been negative bloggers and getting jobs is that their negative came with a huge pile of intelligence. Most negative folks on the internet are missing that key ingredient.
There are basically two ways to get into the field, particularly to the point you aspire to:
1) Go to school, learn how to code (in school or as a hobby), become a tester, and work your way up the corporate ladder. Eventually, you will be coding and designing important concepts - if you are good. This approach takes many years, but results in you being very well rounded and understanding those who work under you.
2) Make money, create a proposal, and get like-minded people together and start the project independently. You can pay for the project outright (millions of dollars), or pay for part of it, which shows good faith and would encourage outside investors to put their money on the line for you. You could make money as a real estate investor, lawyer, restaurant owner, it doesn't matter.
There are advantages to each. If you go the first route, you are almost guaranteed to have very little money and be at the mercy of the people who do have it in every project you work on. If you go the second route, you will likely not know nearly as much about coding, but will have the advantage of complete control over your project.
All of the truly groundbreaking games I know of started out as "garage games" and were developed independently. However, as MMORPGs become increasingly expensive, it is becoming more and more difficult to finance your own project. This is why putting, say, a million of your own dollars down, is a good way to show faith in your own project and encourage a large firm to give you financial backing.
I highly recommend checking out Core Talent Games, at coretalentgames.com You could probably learn a great deal at their site.
Don't let people tell you that there is only one way to do something, or that you aren't qualified without years of tedium. There are a million ways to get to any goal, and if you're driven and talented, you will get there.
Best of luck.
From just browsing over the postings on this thread it looks like you've recieved a lot of good and practical suggestions. I would highly suggest you go back and read this particular post by Andromedus again and really let sink in what he's telling you. This kind of advice is good not only for getting in the MMO industry but for ANYTHING you want to do. I believe it and can vouch for it 100%. I wish I would have had this kind of advice when I was 15! Good Luck to you.
I really didn't touch on the rough sides of game development, like the long hours, always being behind schedule etc because well, that's not the focus of the response. A good chunk of the reason game devs work so hard is because they love what they do. You kind of have to in order to work in this industry as nine times out of ten, you're worth more elsewhere.
That's probably kind of a good thing about working in the gaming industry, though? You have to be good at what you do, you have to be passionate about what you do... and if you decide you want to do something else after a while, there are plenty of options available for you because of the skills you have picked up, and already being used to working hard to get what you want. Getting into the gaming industry after getting comfortable with a well paid job that requires a completely different mindset and skills is probably a lot harder than going the other way. Then again, as you mentioned, the most unlikely backgrounds can sometimes be put to good use. If someone wants to merge an MMO with a legacy system using COBOL as middleware to create someting... unique, I'm your man!
Comments
However, 99% of people that want ot make games, can't produce that remaining 25% of the feature list.
Without that ability, the morals and creativity are irrelevant.
300 dollars. That's all it takes to get into the MMORPG industry. Not saying you'll get anywhere, but you'll be in the industry.
http://www.bigworldtech.com/games/index.php
License for Big World is only 300 bucks.
Another option is to join an open-source game development project/forum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_video_games
Try yourself in game modding. I know few RL examples when modders were hired by game development companies.
I'm beeing realistic. Since the above question is not one whitout answers - even a boot like Google can tell him all that he needs to know... That fact that he put it, is like he expects "a magic answer"... Something like "you go here (a site or an academy) and you'll be in MMO industry in no time... There is no short/easy answer for that - well, not one that he's expecting, cause I don't belive he's interested in "mopping the floor".
Just look at was he's got to give - "he likes to play MMO's".
Based on most MMO titles, I'd say 90% of MMO developers don't like to plat MMO's - since it's prety obvious the "MMO industry wouldn't be filled with so much crap and so many clones - if they did..." So getting under succesful developers "TAKES REAL SKILL" which you don't get from playing the games, but from a passion from design, programing, markering or being a good story writer".
But hey, this is my opinion - maybe I'm to old, so like to judge things based on facts not false hopes. On the other hand, he's probably real young - so at his age there's plenty of room for mistakes, he might learn something from them - yet, the way he put it (not doing any research just puting the questin outhere) I stick with with my main opinion.
That's also a good answer.
May I suggest looking into Microsoft's XNA framework? It's a good way to learn how art and programming work. Start with 2d (Windows and/or Xbox). See what goes into it and which part of game development you fit into. There are many tutorials and resources and you don't need to buy anything to get started. If you aren't comfortable with going through some C# language tutorials and don't want to code, then there are forums to look for working for others. You can learn that way...be it art, story, sound, etc.
Good luck!
Disclaimer: This is not a troll post and is not here to promote any negative energy. Although this may be a criticism, it is not meant to offend anyone. If a moderator feels the post is inappropriate, please remove it immediately before it is subject to consideration for a warning. Thank you.
XH4ID3N, I agree with your statements except this one:
“Based on most MMO titles, I'd say 90% of MMO developers don't like to plat MMO's - since it's prety obvious the "MMO industry wouldn't be filled with so much crap and so many clones - if they did..."”
A game as a final product is a result of team efforts. Game developers, artists, designers represent only a part of this team: there are publishers, financial department, and others that are not directly involved in game creation. A company has a certain budget, time limits. A man should love his profession especially if it
requires certain creativity. Check video interviews with game developers: they are certainly passionate people how love what they are doing and playing their games a lot. Game studious have special groups of testers that are searching for bugs. It is not serious to expect absolute freedom in industry and RL in general. I don’t think that there is “so much crap”. Term “clone” is also very controversial: e.g. I might play a “clone” because it for instance has just better or different graphic, but would never play the “original” game. Consider also technical limitations (game engine programming, 3D modeling, networking), end-users/players/customers are usually not aware of these details/restrictions.
I suspect it's the same as any multi-million dollar corporation; It's not what you know, it's who you know. Hope you have some chapstick handy.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
If your interested in programming check out http://gamedev.net I have actually talked with some people in the gaming industry there in the irc chat. Its mainly programming and they won't help you if you can't help your self. Other than that, browse the forums and hopefully you'd find something worth while there.
I should also note that Unity is a good engine and it's free. You don't have to pay a license until you make 100k I believe. That is the engine I am going to start out in soon.
Personally I wouldn't recommend working in the MMO industry with all the stupid big studios shareholders, investors not interested in deep gameplay.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Your priority should be to learn and hone a skill - 3D modelling, writing, level building, coding, etc. Get examples of your work out there. Work on mod teams, contribute to gaming sites, show that you not only can do great work but you work great in a team.
Here's a site to visit as well - http://gdaa.com.au/
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Thankyou for all of your help and info everyone, it is really apreciated.
Just found out a while ago that oblivion has things to do with modding. So i started with the basics and created some quests and Companiens within the game. My plan so far is to at least create a weapon in blender. I will let you know when i am complete and provide you all with a screenshot.
More info would be helpful!
kikan
You have made it already, you have a dream and are pushing for it. Dont let anyone turn you away from what you will be happy doing. Good luck.
get a lot of time on your hands. and not much care for relationships
A lot of misinformation on this thread coupled with a few good guesses. I work in the industry, particularly on MMO's. First some basics then I'll tell you how I got into the industry after I played EQ over 10 years ago and decided it's what I wanted to do with my life.
First, the types of roles you can get in a MMO industry job:
1. Testing. Probably the most common way in. Often you just need to be really good at games, very aware of their pro's and con's and during your interview be able point to several bugs you found, bug reports you filed and testing process. Entry level jobs in testing in the game industry do NOT pay well, sometimes lower than a job at McDonalds (or on par). This job often involves long hours of tedious repeated boredom, it is NOT playing games for a living. It is testing. Very different. Once you learn the difference you're ready for this career. The upside is, you get to meet a ton of interesting people and testers can work their way up the ranks.
2. Programmer. Believe it or not, this is NOT the most common position ont he team. But if you can write and develop applications in serious programming languages and prove it by passing a skills test or submitting examples of your work, a good way in. C++, C#, Flash are all good areas to look into. Java, and web programming languages to a much lesser extent. However, a long career in application development can lead to a job in games development because you'll have experience with the SDLC (software development lifecycle).
3. Artist. This is a very common way in as well. MMO teams employ tons of artists. Modeling, texturing and animation are all areas to gain skill in and often there will be specialists on any large team. Tools of the trade tend to be 3DStudio Max or Maya. Texturing tools are varied but it wouldn't hurt to pick up ZBrush or similar tools as well. If you can build models, textures and animations and make them work in something like the Unreal engine, you're off to a good start. You'll need a very strong portfolio full of examples of your work from all kinds of genre's. Concept artists also get plenty of jobs in the MMO industry, so if you're talented at art, a good way to go. Prepare to put out a lot of resumes however, competition is fierce.
4. Audio. Probably the hardest job to get because there are so few. Audio engineers are a special breed however and good ones are hard to find. Learning how to sample and create music, make original audio affects and take advantage of things like FMOD are a big plus.
5. Content/Design: Many times when someone says they want to work in the game industry this is what they mean. They want to design games. Let me just say this, this job choice Is NOT easy. Design is the hardest to prove any kind of credibility, a position driven by opinion and belief far more than fact. Junior designers get some of the most tedious jobs in the game industry and frankly, no one wants to know you're opinion. Some day, a long way from now, you might get to design a game where your ideas matter, but your first few years as a designer are basically going to be being a slave to your seniors, working on spreadsheets, editting documents and taking notes in meetings. You CANNOT just hop on board and design your own game. In fact, even once you've got 10 years under your belt, odds are you won't be designing your own game. You get to design your own game A) If you're obscenely rich and/or connected to and control millions of dollars or
you are a high up "idea man" exec for a large publishing conglomerate. That's about it.
6. Management/production. This is an important role and you can get in here at the ground level as an associate producer. Though it's far more common that you end up here after working 2 or more of teh above roles for at least 5 years a piece. This is about budgeting, planning, hiring, staff management and generally laying your neck on the line in terms of schedule and delivery. Being able to manage an MMO team is probably one of the hardest jobs in the industry. Afterall, it's your arse if the game ships and doesn't sell. Big time pressure. Big time potential rewards.
Now that you know the basic roles available here's how you get into them:
1) Get a college degree. Not necessarily the fastest way in, or the best, but a good foundation. If you want to code/program then Comp Sci is the way to go. In fact a number of the roles above have a lot of parallel degrees. Some words of wisdom: an MBA is a good management degree but probably means didly squat for production and management in the games industry. Art degrees aren't bad for art jobs, though go somewhere that focuses on 3D Modeling and concepting. There are no really good degrees for game design, certainly several schools offer them but design tends to require "experience". If you want to get a degree in college and end up in game design, I recommend programming (comp sci) along with a supplimental game studies.
2) Go to a game development school. I recommend places like Full Sail or Guildhall. Both are well known, well funded and work on job placement post graduation. Despite what's been posted here these schools are NOT shams and many game companies hire junior roles from these schools (though not all). The downsides to these schools is they don't always teach practical skills and often what you learn here as to be unlearned when you get into the industry.
3) Experience. This can be combined with any other way in. Work somewhere in the software development field. Programming, management, design or testing. All apply. Get several years of it under your belt and come highly recommend, make sure you're an adaptive learner. There's no easy way into the game industry if you're coming from another career path but a highly experienced resume will always be looked at.
Another way to build experience is as several folks said here. learn by doing. Build games for the IPhone, or XNA (Xbox). Make flash games for websites. Any of these appraoches will lead to basic skills in programming, art, and game design. If you can manage to make a good game (and if you're a good gamer you'll know what one is) you CAN get noticed and at the very least, have a great portfolio. Better yet, if you get good at this, especially IPhone game development, you can make a tidy salary (I know a few guys that LEFT the MMO industry after making just a handful of IPhone apps and started clearing $200k a year).
4) I hate to say this. But getting into the game business is often about who you know. The most dissapointing aspect here is that most game development teams will hire people they worked with before, or know personally first, even before looking at more experienced resumes. This item trumps any of the above by a large margin. If you get into the industry expect to find many examples of the "Bosses son/daughter" or the leads "best friend" etc. Sometimes these jobs come in the form of office managers, front desk workers, IT staff, or testers, but it is a VERY common occurance and way in. Get used to it. Also expect these folks to have higher positions than you, better pay and more often than not, your senior.
Boy, that's a wall of crit text, but it's the information you're looking for. Now how did I get into the industry? I went to College, I got a degree in Computer Science. I wanted to make video games since I was 12. I graduated college in 1998 with my bachelor of science and discovered A) no game company wanted to hire me (a comp sci degree meant nothing to the business back then and it doesn't mean much more now per se) and
the internet was booming. So I got snapped up by a software consultancy. The next 7-8 years I built applications for big Fortune 500 companies. I learned database design and development, java web application, systems support, systems administration, testing and applicaiton performance modeling and testing. I must admit, I got quite good at what I did. I was obscenely well paid. Every 2 or 3 years I'd try to apply to MMO game companies, mostly trying to get in as a database programmer (the most relevant skill I had). I applied at Sony, EA, Origin (back in the day), etc. I did manage to get interviews at Origin for Ultima Online 2, but they decided my C++ skills weren't sharp enough (missed 1 of 6 questions on the skills test FYI, point: you must get them all right, most of the people applying will).
Time ticked on and honestly in many ways I lost a lot of hope. As time went on I went from junior programmer, to senior, to an architect, even Sr. Architect in my career. In my non-gaming profession I was considered too good at Application development to be wasted with programming. I started managing larger and larger teams, working on design, project planning and working with the client. Sometimes I'd be assigned solo (like my 2 years as a peformance analyst) for high risk engagements. Translation: I was a big deal. But to the game industry, I barely qualified for a junior position as a developer.
During this time I continued to play a lot of MMO's. And got lucky. I made a lot of friends, leading guilds and playing mmo's. Believe it or not, despite the negativity here, a LOT of game developers play games. Odds are if you've been in a top tier raiding guild in WoW, you've been guilded with a few MMO developers (yes, many of us are quite good at them too). I made friends. Real friends, the kind you talk to offline, not just online. Turns out a few of them were in the industry. They didn't tell me right away (not usually something you're keen to reveal right off the bat). One of them would often talk to me about his work technical problems and I would talk to him about mine. One day he took a new job at a startup MMO company and for giggles he submitted my resume as a DB programmer on his team. I got an interview, and, sadly, I was turned down. At least for that job, mainly because they feared they could not pay me anything close to what I was making. So they offerred me a job as their IT Director.
Director! Guess what, even at a role that was in some ways a promotion for me (higher title) I took nearly a %30 pay cut to get my first job in the game industry. I worked there for 3 years, sadly it didn't work out (ran out of money amongst other things). And my game career ended. IT Directors are not in hot demand in the games industry though while I was there I did a few things to help out. I worked on build tools for the dev team (actually developed a few nifty ones), helped design, code and build the games web site, worked on the account system design, etc. So I made some contacts. When that job ended I went back to consulting, first tried my own business but it was a bad economy. Then went back to my former employer who was ectstatic to have me back and have the experience I had from the games industry (note eexperience flows much better out of the game industry then in). A year later, an opportunity came up to work as a senior developer where I am now on network implementation. I took it in a heart beat. Thanks to my previous game industry experience I commanded a better salary, but I still ended up taking nearly a %35 pay cut.
So there it is. 22 years ago I had a dream to work in the industry when I was twelve. I went to college and got a 4 year degree in Comp Science. It took almost 7 years after that to get my first chance and foot in the door. It took another 4-5 years to get a job directly working on a game title. There are dozens of ways in the industry and despite my resume my first chance still required me to "know" someone to help give me an edge during the interview process and even then I didn't get a job working directly on the title.
If I had to do it over again, i would have spent more time in college making homemade games rather than playing them. Same with high school, though in high school I did write a lot of my own games, I should have continued it. A lot of the stuff I made then would've been a shoe-in for IPhone games now. One of my big mistakes was taking a nice paying job in consulting (it was the internet craze) rather then hunting for a low paying tester job in the games industry. That decision alone veered me off course for almost 5-7 years. Though I probably ate and lived a lot better as a result.
I won't lie, entry level jobs in the game business are not glamorous. They are hard, difficult jobs. They pay extremely poorly. You do NOT get to do what you want to do. In return, you're working on games! Probably one of the coolest jobs in the world in terms of what you get to do. The only other bad news is, well, there are more bad games then good. Your career in the business will be based on how many titles you've shipped. You may have to suffer through a lot of bad teams int he process. Bad teams = bad games every time. And as I said, there are more bad games then good. Every bad game has an equally bad story behind it. Every great game oten has some of the scariest career/job moments behind them too. Great teams though, perservere and deliver great product. But even great teams can fall apart for the silliest reasons.
To those I worked with in the past at the first job, who know me and read these forums (yes game developers read these forums, even MMORPG's negative as all hell ones), I miss you guys and while I'm happy with where I'm at, not a day doesn't go by where I didn't wish that first stint worked out better than it did.
@above post
Perfect lowdown on how it be, should be stickied.
I've done QA and they do take apprenticeships quite often, but they don't just take anyone (unless they like you enough, see above point). If you went to college, that's an in. If you didn't but show initiiative in learning on your own and having a few lesser flash games under your belt, just as good. Having a ton of great ideas for games and lots of footnotes to show for it, get lost.
Design may be one tacet of the business, but the industry's no. 1 calling card is over software development. Having zero to little knowledge in that department will get you nowhere. QA is not going to give you any practical skills, but it will give you analytical skills that help in that department. I didn't know jack about games until I did a run on a project.
These are all things you can figure out on your own by unlocking the dev tools in any released game and fudging around with it. Though it makes more sense with context wrapped around it, like knowing what to look for.
My question to the above poster, because he seems even more knowledgeable than I, is "what is the best route for a writer/game designer to get into the industy?". I plan to try and get published for stuff that isn't even software-related, things from books to board games, but wonder if there's any hope of getting into the software realm with very few practical skills. I need to make an effort to take baby steps into flash, but don't know where to start either. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Wow 22 years, i must say you have a lot of patience to actully wait that long to get in the game industry. That is very helpful for me and i really apreciate what you just wrote. It seems that i havnt even a glimpse of what will happen when i finally finish school and pursue my desire for making games. Im half way through desining a sword for oblivion (blender) and when im done, i would really apreciate if you can check it out, comment and give me some points. I want to do programing, not artistic things since im not really good with art. Since you are in the gaming industry, could you give me some pointers on where i might get programs that can help me make flash and i-phone games, without spending a dime. I know i might be asking a lot, but my desire for creating something that people can get lost in, just forget about all there problems, and imagine that they are some great warrior wielding a powerful sword, or a mage with the most powerfull magic. Thats what i want people to feel, thats why i love playing games.Thank you and everyone for all the wonderful help you have given me.
kikan
You know, I am not the least bit interested in getting into the gaming industry, but thank you for that, purely because it was a very good read.
A willing to sacrifice your life expectancy due to the lifestyle you shall live working in the MMO industry as a developer. All those years sat down looking at computer monitors being stress and eating rubbish fast food diet with many late nights.
That's nothing to brag about right now.
It's amazing who companies will hire and put in a position of responsibility. Brad McQuaid, Furor, Raph Koster. Hell all Furor did was run a "uber" guild and act like a nerd's nerd on his webpage. I don't even know what Brad did but even after getting involved in EQ I have a feeling it was alot less than what he was given credit for.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
I think people go about this the completely wrong way.
Many many people in the games industry never thought they would end up there.
They're programmers, mathematicians, physicists, artists, designers, gamers.
Why not find a job you like and if the opportunity to develop a game comes around, you can take it, but many people are just setting themselves up for disappointment. There aren't that many jobs in the game industry, even though the industry is gettting bigger, it's still a very small field.
Thanks for the good read Vestas. I thought I had a good idea of what it would take to get into the industry, but I can see that I saved myself a lot of pain by giving up early... I started on my computer science degree partly because I wanted to make games back in 1999. I looked into what it would take to get such a job, and started working on a portfolio. I discovered quite early on that while I liked programming, and was quite good at it, it was not something I enjoyed doing on my spare time. If anything, it made me appreciate the time I spent away from the computer more, so I just finished my education and got a regular job.
There have been times when I've wondered what it would be like to have the kind of job I dreamed of 10-15 years ago, but I think I'm happier playing games on my spare time while working 37,5 hour weeks with paid overtime. Great tips, and food for thought for those that are still dreaming, though
[quote]but I think I'm happier playing games on my spare time while working 37,5 hour weeks with paid overtime. Great tips, and food for thought for those that are still dreaming, though
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What's funny is my previous consulting job was no free ride. I was often working 80-110 hour work weeks as a consultant, not counting the travel time. And while the hours in the game industry are certainly not "40 hour work weeks" it feels like I get a lot more free time now then I did consulting. I really didn't touch on the rough sides of game development, like the long hours, always being behind schedule etc because well, that's not the focus of the response. A good chunk of the reason game devs work so hard is because they love what they do. You kind of have to in order to work in this industry as nine times out of ten, you're worth more elsewhere.
One of the craziest ways into the industry I know of,is one of the guys on my team is literally a rocket scientist. He used to consult and work for places like NASA and Lockheed Martin, doing sattelite simulations and analysis. He's now a simulation guy for our AI systems. Funny how the skills translate really well.
Another way in that I didn't mention. My current technical director got his start in the industry by giving up on his college degree. He went to work for a local game development company FOR FREE. For nearly two years. That's right, he took an unpaid internship. He worked on solitaire games and casual games long before they were popular or really revenue generating. He then worked his way through progressively better jobs, but the firs paying one he got paid minimum wage. It took him years before he got where he is now. He did it be cultivating contacts, getting better at his skillset and by being a very smart guy. So if you have the means you can always beat down the doors of local companies and offer yourself for free as an intern. Some may take you, but you'll need a resume that proves some skill. He had a portfolio of little games he'd made himself.
As for where to pick up tools to learn skills. Literally go get the IPhone SDK (it's available from apple) and/or the XNA developers suite from microsoft (you can get Visual Studio Express for free specifically for this purpose). There are dozens of websites and several good books out there to teach yourself. If you make something you want people to see, you'll need to do a lot of self advertising. It never hurts to start a blog commenting on your experiences as you design and build your own game if that's what you want to do. If you *are* going to be public about your take on game development just be careful what you say. Keep it up beat, positive and interesting. Negativity has gotten a few highly notable people some jobs, but generally it is less effective for your average joe than just informative and upbeat posting. What most people forget about those who have been negative bloggers and getting jobs is that their negative came with a huge pile of intelligence. Most negative folks on the internet are missing that key ingredient.
From just browsing over the postings on this thread it looks like you've recieved a lot of good and practical suggestions. I would highly suggest you go back and read this particular post by Andromedus again and really let sink in what he's telling you. This kind of advice is good not only for getting in the MMO industry but for ANYTHING you want to do. I believe it and can vouch for it 100%. I wish I would have had this kind of advice when I was 15!
Good Luck to you.
That's probably kind of a good thing about working in the gaming industry, though? You have to be good at what you do, you have to be passionate about what you do... and if you decide you want to do something else after a while, there are plenty of options available for you because of the skills you have picked up, and already being used to working hard to get what you want. Getting into the gaming industry after getting comfortable with a well paid job that requires a completely different mindset and skills is probably a lot harder than going the other way. Then again, as you mentioned, the most unlikely backgrounds can sometimes be put to good use. If someone wants to merge an MMO with a legacy system using COBOL as middleware to create someting... unique, I'm your man!