GW2-not getting us psyched for nothing

Karesh

I know that at least most people who have really been following Guild Wars 2 should already know this...but I just want to point out (for those people who claim that GW2 won't pull through with what they claim to have), that A-net doesn't hype us up for nothing. They have said in more than one review/article, that they almost always only release information after said information is already in the game. So for everything that A-Net claims GW2 will have, we can be pretty sure that they're going to have it.          

MMOExposed

Originally posted by Karesh

I know that at least most people who have really been following Guild Wars 2 should already know this...but I just want to point out (for those people who claim that GW2 won't pull through with what they claim to have), that A-net doesn't hype us up for nothing. They have said in more than one review/article, that they almost always only release information after said information is already in the game. So for everything that A-Net claims GW2 will have, we can be pretty sure that they're going to have it.          

Oh Yeah RIght,,,,,

 

Here we go again,,,,,,, another crazed fangirl in to hype a game they know little about.

 

GW2 is getting the hype of being a F2P game (which many people here are assuming the item shop will be vanity only like GW1 was, which wasnt even a MMO"

 

Many of the gameplay limits arent known as of yet.

 

Just go back and look at GW1 forum post here back during beta.

Many people here also thought it was a MMO from the hype alone. Many people didnt even know the World was completely Instanced..

 

Hype Means nothing until the game comes out.

I am surprised most MMO players on this Site havent realize this by now.

 

Like my History teacher said...

"History doesnt repeat History,,,, People repeat History"

Ihmotepp

If it's a cash shop game, xp potions, stuff like that, not really interested.

rahj83

Exposed:

I've come to the conclusion that I do not like you. Since you have joined the forums you have been extremely negative to pretty much everyone. So what if this person is getting excited for a new game? Does that bother you? Are people not allowed to get their hopes up?

The OP is simply stating that people shouldn't worry about the features not being in the game because ArenaNet has a good history of not disclosing information about features until they are already in the game. As you said, history does not repeat itself, people repeat history and the people at ArenaNet will repeat that history.

I've seen so many of your comments in so many threads about so many different games, and they are all almost always negative. Why would someone who is such an MMO hater be hangin out in an MMO community? What MMO games do you play? Hello Kitty? Why bash people based on their likes or dislikes? Why comment on them at all? If you can't bring useful information to a conversation, why involve yourself in it? Why, as in your "What did WoW do better" thread, do you only reply to comments you can bash easy, as opposed to comments that are well thought out and backed with facts and relavant information?

You sir, are a troll and nothing more. Do the world a favor and return to your home under the bridge.

MMOExposed

Originally posted by rahj83

Exposed:

I've come to the conclusion that I do not like you. Since you have joined the forums you have been extremely negative to pretty much everyone. So what if this person is getting excited for a new game? Does that bother you? Are people not allowed to get their hopes up?

The OP is simply stating that people shouldn't worry about the features not being in the game because ArenaNet has a good history of not disclosing information about features until they are already in the game. As you said, history does not repeat itself, people repeat history and the people at ArenaNet will repeat that history.

I've seen so many of your comments in so many threads about so many different games, and they are all almost always negative. Why would someone who is such an MMO hater be hangin out in an MMO community? What MMO games do you play? Hello Kitty? Why bash people based on their likes or dislikes? Why comment on them at all? If you can't bring useful information to a conversation, why involve yourself in it? Why, as in your "What did WoW do better" thread, do you only reply to comments you can bash easy, as opposed to comments that are well thought out and backed with facts and relavant information?

You sir, are a troll and nothing more. Do the world a favor and return to your home under the bridge.

looks like somebody struck a nerve

rahj83

Nah, not really. I'm just wondering why you bring nothing constructive to the conversation and why you hate on people...in most of the threads that you post in.

I don't feel it is needed. That's all. She shared an opinion, and you bashed her for being an over-hyped fangirl. If you don't agree with the opinion, just say so, and explain your opinion. Is that so hard?

I called you a troll because that is what you appear to be, if I am wrong, please, by all means, show me where you provide constructive replies and I will admit I'm wrong, I'll even apologize. I'm just sick of seeing poeple like you taking advantage of public forums and the freedom of speech. It's very annoying.

Fishbaitz

I'm afraid I have to agree with rahj, I havn't even seen you post much but the ones I have seen have been overly negative in a way that says to me "I'm better than all of you, you are all worms beneath my feet. I enjoy toying with you peasants."

As for GW2, yes, ArenaNet has stated on multiple occasions that they havn't been talking about anything until they are 99.99% sure it is going to make it into the game.

From here

Alright. Because I was thinking about, you brought up the bar brawl, for example Funcom had something like that planned for Age of Conan, and I'm not sure that made it in at launch. Is there any risk that something similar would happen to the activities? Or is it an integral part of the game experience in itself?

John: These are getting built into the game itself, they will be there at launch. They are not something that we will tack on later, they are part of the cities.

Eric Flannum: One of the things I can say is that we tend to, you know, we were pretty tight-lipped about the game for a long time and we tend not to talk about things unless they are actually in the game. So when we talk about activities, like when we talk about the bar brawl, or the shooting gallery, because they are actually in the game you can go in and experience them right now. And so there is actually very little chance that most things we talk about are not going to make it into the game just because we run out of time or anything like that. Because, as I said, we tend not to talk about things unless we're very, very certain that we can do them. Certain as in they are in already.

 

So I could go point by point and put up every feature we know about the game, but that would be futility at its best. The least I can do is try to help get across the dev's passion for the game. I leave you with a post by Martin Kerstein on GW2G addressing a comment made by one of our more tediose members.

cguiao

I think she is very hopefull for gw2, i am too, but im tired of being deceived ><

Nailzzz

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Karesh

I know that at least most people who have really been following Guild Wars 2 should already know this...but I just want to point out (for those people who claim that GW2 won't pull through with what they claim to have), that A-net doesn't hype us up for nothing. They have said in more than one review/article, that they almost always only release information after said information is already in the game. So for everything that A-Net claims GW2 will have, we can be pretty sure that they're going to have it.          

Oh Yeah RIght,,,,,

 

Here we go again,,,,,,, another crazed fangirl in to hype a game they know little about.

 

GW2 is getting the hype of being a F2P game (which many people here are assuming the item shop will be vanity only like GW1 was, which wasnt even a MMO"

 

Many of the gameplay limits arent known as of yet.

 

Just go back and look at GW1 forum post here back during beta.

Many people here also thought it was a MMO from the hype alone. Many people didnt even know the World was completely Instanced..

 

Hype Means nothing until the game comes out.

I am surprised most MMO players on this Site havent realize this by now.

 

Like my History teacher said...

"History doesnt repeat History,,,, People repeat History"

      Now i admit when i first saw the op's post i also found it to be a bit much in terms of fanboi-ism(and this coming from someone who will proudly admit to being a fanboy), but i really cant argue with the points made since there were paraphrased from an arenanet developer in the first place.

     You on the other hand seem to have some reason to believe that the item shop will be the typical F2P mmo cash shop money grab. Even you were able to come up with her reasoning for believing otherwise. So i must ask, What makes you believe that it will be worse then the current GW1 cash shop given that the company has established that they know how to make one without involving undue greed?

     As to the gameplay limits being known yet, you could just as easily say that about any game coming out in the future which makes that a pretty worthless statement.

     As for GW1 in beta, i was among the many people playing during the beta. Frankly i never saw anything during the beta that made me not want to play, quite the opposite in fact. I could care less about people's definition of game types which in terms of mmo's has become alot more varied since GW1. They could have told me it was an fps-racing-rts hybrid and my responce would have still been "when can i purchase this?" Thousands of us were playing those beta's. Somehow i dont think the fact that the game was instanced went unnoticed.

      Ill never understand what everyone has against instances. There are certain advantages to instancing and not just for the developers but for the players. With instances i dont have to wait in line to kill a boss, or worry about getting kill stealed, or ganked, and being able to actually affect the game world around me in a way that actually changes the game world. At the time when GW1 came out instancing was the easiest way to accomplish all these things. It was a simple tradeoff which, after playing my previous mmo's where these had all been common problems, sounded awesome. 

     You want to know why thise game is getting hyped? Its because Arenanet has always acted with integrity when it came to its customers. They rarely make empty promises. On the rare occasion where they were unable to add something to there game when they were trying put in (like dual classing or the henchmen in GW2), they didnt BS about it or dodge the question. They were straight up and honest with us as to why. Personally i cant help but respect that. As far as im concerned they have Earned there hype.

     In light of all that they have been giving us in depth info on various innovative features in GW2 that are all currently in the playable version of the game. More innovative features in fact than any other upcoming mmo including the aforementioned advantages that you get with an instanced game, but in a persistant open world game. And with Arenanet's precedence for honesty, i see no reason at all to think its just hype. If anything, i just dont see how anyone can really be so negative with such little basis. Only possible negative i can see anyone pointing to is the NCSoft logo, but that didnt stop the first GW from being a success.

MMOExposed

Originally posted by rahj83

Nah, not really. I'm just wondering why you bring nothing constructive to the conversation and why you hate on people...in most of the threads that you post in.

I don't feel it is needed. That's all. She shared an opinion, and you bashed her for being an over-hyped fangirl. If you don't agree with the opinion, just say so, and explain your opinion. Is that so hard?

I called you a troll because that is what you appear to be, if I am wrong, please, by all means, show me where you provide constructive replies and I will admit I'm wrong, I'll even apologize. I'm just sick of seeing poeple like you taking advantage of public forums and the freedom of speech. It's very annoying.

WHich if you read my post, I displayed my disagreement with the OP, and I explained my opinion.

 

You just had a problem with that, because you are a fangirl.

 

And calling me a troll for applying my opinion, makes you a troll as well. So it goes both ways.

 

And I am tired of fanboys hyping up MMO games, when they know little about the gameplay. See this same logic goes both ways. You dont like my

Criticism, so why are you on a site with MMO Reviews and Discussions?



Not everybody is going to agree that a game is perfect in every way.



And Numbers speak louder then any forum post can. And clearly from our current charts, most MMOs subs are dropping instead of rising, except a small handful.



Obviously there is a linked issue with most MMO out there. And I try to expose that linked issue plaguing the genre.



I cant help the fact that it will be negative. But thats what happens with all Issues/Problems in life. They will be negative.



If you are not willing to accept criticism because of ego fanboyism, then you likely shouldnt be developing nor supporting a product on a economical market.

BlahTeeb

Exposed is probably one of those guys who think all MMO needs either a sub or a "required" cash shop to run. It's a new decade man... MMO's don't cost a gazillion to run, just do a bit of research.

Vaultar

Originally posted by Karesh

I know that at least most people who have really been following Guild Wars 2 should already know this...but I just want to point out (for those people who claim that GW2 won't pull through with what they claim to have), that A-net doesn't hype us up for nothing. They have said in more than one review/article, that they almost always only release information after said information is already in the game. So for everything that A-Net claims GW2 will have, we can be pretty sure that they're going to have it.          

I soo feel for ya! Same thoughts here too. More people should understand this. Where possible, ArenaNet replies with straight, clear and honest answers that both, reveal the ways in which the mechanics under question are evolutionary from other traditional mmo games while at the same time, reveal the limitations of these systems. As a result of such direct  and revealing answers, players are not left feeling hyped up groundlessly unless they turn the given answers around in their heads and hope for something larger than wat the answers are really saying.

Again, like u pointed out, they could only provide all this information because the mechanics under question are already in game, have been tested out and are almost guranteed to end up in the final game.

GTwander

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

Exposed is probably one of those guys who think all MMO needs either a sub or a "required" cash shop to run. It's a new decade man... MMO's don't cost a gazillion to run, just do a bit of research.

I don't quite understand what you are getting at.

Is there a third financial method being used that doesn't involve subs or microtransactions?

 

 

As for MMO's not costing a gazillion to run? Correct, they only take a gazillion to make. After that, they only spend a fraction of their income on the game itself, especially when publishers have their greasy hands in the pot. Companies like CCP, who reinvest in their own games, are inspiring to me - but don't call me a fanboi just yet, because I still think they are prone to make mistakes while riding all their money on a gamble like that.

rahj83

Your opinion was the fact that she was an over-hyped fangirl who knows nothing about the game.

Awesome. Real constructive.

She seems to be well informed, getting her information straight from the source. I'd imagine she knows something about the game.

Fanboys and girls will hype up their game of choice because they like it, they enjoy and would like it to be successful. Word of mouth is the ultimate tool in sales. World of Warcraft has the most fanboys and girls of any game, probably ever, and as such has done very well. You play WoW, you should know.

Current charts and numbers mean nothing. Before WoW how many people subscribed to MMORPGs? Now that WoW and other games are losing some subs, all of a sudden the MMORPG is a dying genre? A maximum of one million people were subbed to games before WoW...now there are literally millions of people playing MMORPGs...they're just getting bored and looking for something new to play. New content, new storylines, new quests...expansions take forver in some games, so people move on to find what they crave. It's not like before WoW where you only had three choices...

There are so many issues as to why games are unsuccessful. The one major linked issue is community. WoW invited millions of the dregs of society into our genre. They still linger because they have found the genre appealing. That's fine, I don't mind, but I have a difficult time playing games with poor community. I stopped playing WoW due to the constant amount of gibberish and "leet" speak and people comparing e-peens. Where would you rather live, the ghetto or a nice gated community?

The problem there, developers and publishers don't want to make a gated community. They want to make money, so they open up their doors to everyone and then we get another ghetto.

Being negative about a game and about a person are too totally different things, though. Again, it's not needed.

I said prove me wrong and I would apologize...you still have not provided a contructive response...all you did was say that I am a fangirl and and a troll. I read your post...you failed. Again.

 

rahj83

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

Exposed is probably one of those guys who think all MMO needs either a sub or a "required" cash shop to run. It's a new decade man... MMO's don't cost a gazillion to run, just do a bit of research.

I don't quite understand what you are getting at.

Is there a third financial method being used that doesn't involve subs or microtransactions?

 

I believe he is talking about how GW2 plans on making their money through having multiple expansions released every 3-6 months. Instead of forcing a subscription fee or forcing people to buy items from a cash shop.

Nailzzz

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

Exposed is probably one of those guys who think all MMO needs either a sub or a "required" cash shop to run. It's a new decade man... MMO's don't cost a gazillion to run, just do a bit of research.

I don't quite understand what you are getting at.

Is there a third financial method being used that doesn't involve subs or microtransactions?

 

 

As for MMO's not costing a gazillion to run? Correct, they only take a gazillion to make. After that, they only spend a fraction of their income on the game itself, especially when publishers have their greasy hands in the pot. Companies like CCP, who reinvest in their own games, are inspiring to me - but don't call me a fanboi just yet, because I still think they are prone to make mistakes while riding all their money on a gamble like that.

      I believe that BlahTeeb may be reffering to the GW method which is simply B2P, meaning you purchase the product for a 1 time fee like you would a single player game($50) and play for as long as you like. Back during the earlier beta events, i remember reading an interview with an arenanet developer where they explained that if the game had 250-350k players then GW would be a success and be able to be maintained well into the forseeable future. And then of course there were also the B2P expansions that were immense in terms of content that would come out once or twice a year (that you never had to buy as there was no increase in lvl cap or gear power creep) for another $50 each.

     They have already stated that they will be using the same business model in GW2.

BlahTeeb

Originally posted by rahj83

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

Exposed is probably one of those guys who think all MMO needs either a sub or a "required" cash shop to run. It's a new decade man... MMO's don't cost a gazillion to run, just do a bit of research.

I don't quite understand what you are getting at.

Is there a third financial method being used that doesn't involve subs or microtransactions?

 

I believe he is talking about how GW2 plans on making their money through having multiple expansions released every 3-6 months. Instead of forcing a subscription fee or forcing people to buy items from a cash shop.

Yea, pretty much true. Though it doesn't even need to be 3-6 months. It can be yearly, maybe even bi-yearly. It's sad to see gamers come on and say, "this game won't get any updates, it doesn't have a monthly fee." They never research or bother trying to learn where their monthly money is going. Developers have come out and said that an MMORPG does not need a subscription. If it's backed by a good game or publisher, it can thrive.

MMOExposed

Originally posted by Nailzzz

      

      Now i admit when i first saw the op's post i also found it to be a bit much in terms of fanboi-ism(and this coming from someone who will proudly admit to being a fanboy), but i really cant argue with the points made since there were paraphrased from an arenanet developer in the first place.

Which every hyped up MMORPG has done. Just scroll back over the DF Forum hype threads on this forum before that game came out. It was the most hype game on this forum at that time.

     You on the other hand seem to have some reason to believe that the item shop will be the typical F2P mmo cash shop money grab. Even you were able to come up with her reasoning for believing otherwise. So i must ask, What makes you believe that it will be worse then the current GW1 cash shop given that the company has established that they know how to make one without involving undue greed?

And do you believe everything a developer of a MMO tell you, before release? "Cough" Darkfall, AoC, War "Cough" .... Sorry I have a Cold.

Anyway joke aside, Guild Wars 1 wasnt a MMO. Its a Singleplayer RPG with Co-op options and a Internet Requirement. Most single player games now days, have online shopping options. Look at Dragon Age Orgin for a modern example of this. But when it comes to a MMORPG, that will cost much more service. You looking at a much open world, with bugs and you name it. Any problem can show up, and thats when you need in game support to handle such things. Server management, is also a important factor.

 

     As to the gameplay limits being known yet, you could just as easily say that about any game coming out in the future which makes that a pretty worthless statement.

That was basically my point. This Logic applies to all upcoming MMO. They are not excluded from this criticism. And It comes with each and ever one of them as well. Again go back and read some of the Darkfall threads. There was critisim, even if the fanbase bash and flamed , and scared many of them away. IMO, had the fanbase listened to the critics, and demanded more from the developers, the game would have been in a much better shape then it is today.

 

 

 

 

     As for GW1 in beta, i was among the many people playing during the beta. Frankly i never saw anything during the beta that made me not want to play, quite the opposite in fact. I could care less about people's definition of game types which in terms of mmo's has become alot more varied since GW1. They could have told me it was an fps-racing-rts hybrid and my responce would have still been "when can i purchase this?" Thousands of us were playing those beta's. Somehow i dont think the fact that the game was instanced went unnoticed.

Yes and thats called Blind Fanboyism. just go back and read some of the early post on GW1 that linger on this forum. Most of the hype came from the fact the game was F2P. Most people moved on to their main MMO, and left GW1 behind as a alt MMO because of the fee. Had that game had a Subscription in its current form, it would have crashed. That says much about the gameplay, but thats just my speculation.

 

      Ill never understand what everyone has against instances. There are certain advantages to instancing and not just for the developers but for the players. With instances i dont have to wait in line to kill a boss, or worry about getting kill stealed, or ganked, and being able to actually affect the game world around me in a way that actually changes the game world. At the time when GW1 came out instancing was the easiest way to accomplish all these things. It was a simple tradeoff which, after playing my previous mmo's where these had all been common problems, sounded awesome. 

 

Like I told you above, Guild Wars 1 wasnt a MMO. Its a Singleplayer RPG with Co-op options and a Internet Requirement. Just think about it for a second. had Blizzard placed a Internet Connection requirement on Diablo2, without changing anything gameplay wise, would that make the game any more of a MMO as to the way it is in its current shape where it is optional?

This again here is a major hype scam exploit which I dislike about Guild Wars 1.

Arena-Net never claims GW2 as a MMO, but they do make the statement thats it is "LIKE" a MMO. Thats where the scammed exploit begins.

Ask yourself,,, Why is the "Lack of Monthly Fee" a Feature for Guild Wars, if its not even a MMORPG? Many Single player and Co-op RPG lack Monthly fee, so what makes Guild Wars the exception of this? Why did they list this as a feature, when other rpg games also lack monthly fees.

I tell you why,,,, Because the developers wanted to exploit the similarities it has to a MMO, as it be an actually MMO to unsuspecting consumers of their product. Arena-Net isnt the only developer to exploit this scam on the consumer base.



not sure if you ever heard of a video game called "Dot Hack". It is a RPG for the PS2, that is based on a Anime, that has a Story theme similar to what we know of as a MMORPG computer game. 



Well as you can guess it, the Developers of Dot Hack also exploited this scam tactic, by marketing their game as being similar to a MMORPG but without the MMO part. Why is that a feature for a RPG game?



Would or would not, all RPG, basically be a MMORPG without the MMO part? So what would make this game any different? Great Marketing scam, and there is enough scams in this genre as is. I am not going to speak for everybody here but, I am tired of this genre's scams, and I would like to see the developers come up to par with actual progression, rather then stupid marketing scamming tactics.

 

 

     You want to know why thise game is getting hyped? Its because Arenanet has always acted with integrity when it came to its customers. They rarely make empty promises. On the rare occasion where they were unable to add something to there game when they were trying put in (like dual classing or the henchmen in GW2), they didnt BS about it or dodge the question. They were straight up and honest with us as to why. Personally i cant help but respect that. As far as im concerned they have Earned there hype.

Yes and I would want that from developers as well. I mean, hey Warhammer's Developers did it as well, did they not?

Again that doesnt justifiy overhyping something you know little about, especially in a genre like this, where scamming the consumers off of box sells, is the number 1 tactic. Until the Developers can show their work (as in hands on, like release and test), then their words and hype mean little.



History doesnt repeat History, People Repeat History. "Cough" Darkfall, Warhammer, AoC "Cough"



As long as we continue to allow this marketing scam to happen, the more and more Developers will Exploit it. You Want Change, then its time for you all to make some changes yourself, and demand actually improvements rather then just blind hype.

 

     In light of all that they have been giving us in depth info on various innovative features in GW2 that are all currently in the playable version of the game. More innovative features in fact than any other upcoming mmo including the aforementioned advantages that you get with an instanced game, but in a persistant open world game. And with Arenanet's precedence for honesty, i see no reason at all to think its just hype. If anything, i just dont see how anyone can really be so negative with such little basis. Only possible negative i can see anyone pointing to is the NCSoft logo, but that didnt stop the first GW from being a success.

And once more, what innovating feature are you referring to? Event System? On paper that could sound interesting, but if you sit back and actually look at this without blind fanboyism, you would see that this too was a feature advertised for Darkfall. Oh but that sure turned out well. SOO INNOVATING!!!!

 

Persistent World is one thing, but a Seamless world is another. Once more, dont let Developer's carefully worded interviews fool you, as they have done to its consumers of this genre. Do I even need to point out Aion and AoC?

rahj83

See? Was that so hard? That was a decent reply. It was mostly opinion and lacked any facts, but it was a reply that did not bash the poster and presented a clear view of the topic at hand. I owe you an apology.

I don't agree with some of it, but, it is what it is. GW was not an MMO, ArenaNet even said that. But it still had bugs to fix, servers to maintain, etc...and did it all without added subscription costs. I agree that an open world true MMO would probably cost more in these areas, and that is why GW2 will not be instance free. They've said this, too...

BTW, Dragon Age had no online co-op at all...the comparison doesn't work...

I admit, GW was never a true MMO, and was never my number one game...but the gameplay and mechanics were not to blame. The community in GW is garbage and the henchmen AI somewhat lacking...so you needed a group to enjoy the game...and it's hard finding a group sometimes in a garbage community...

ArenaNet has claimed the GW2 will be an MMO...not "like" an MMO....but it will be an MMO. Check the webpage.

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/game-faq/#five

They never claimed a "seamless" world...EQ wasn't a "seamless" world...yet you'd probably agree that it was an MMO, yes?

The reason they are advertising the lack of a a subscription fee is because it's a sales pitch. They are targeting the audience that doesn't want to spend $180 a year in "fees" to play a game that they've purchased from a box. If they get those people to buy the box, they make money. If the game is good, those same people will buy the expansions and hey, they make money. It's a sales pitch, simple as that.

I have no idea how the game is going to play, but it sounds like it could be a great game. I'm interested to see how it turns out. I'll pre-order it to get a beta key and if I don't like it, I'll cancel the pre-order and get my $5 back from gamestop...I've done it a lot.

As to the constant referances to other games...that is completely irrelevant. DarkFall had hype because of it's supposed promises...Age of Conan had hype because it was mature rated, had boobies and a new type of combat...WarHammer is the only one that makes sense here. It was hyped because of the success of Dark Age of Camelot. The reason WarHammer is failing, or has failed, is because, imo Games Workshop had their hands in the development process too much. The game focused way too much on the PvP at first, then later switched gears to focus more on PvE (to be more WoW like) and that upset all the PvP players who had stuck it out...so they all quit because the new PvE gear that all you had to do was a dungeon run for, was equal to or more powerful than the PvP gear that they had spent countless hours collecting...that's why my entire guild quit, anyways...

GW2 has the hype it has because it has 5 million+ people that loved the original game...now that it's been stated as a true MMO they are even more excited for it. Hype happens, deal with it. If WoW 2 were launching next year, the hype would be ten times worse...

deviliscious

I think alot of people are having a hard time believing Developers because of what OTHER developers have done in the past, and they simply do not know what Arena Net is , who they are and what they are all about.

Those of us who have been following Arena Net since they came to exist understand how they are actually much different than what we are accustomed to dealing with in the MMORPG industry.

The reason they have the reputation they do, is because they have earned it, it isn't a bunch of over zealous fan bots overhyping them, they actually earned their gratitude and respect from the players themselves by what they have done.

First, you have to look at who Arena Net is, They were the creators of Battlenet that broke from Blizzard over standards. YES, they left Blizzard over standards. They formed Arena Net because they didn;t like the direction Blizzard was taking and felt Blizzard was ripping players off and wanted to provide players with something more. They actually formed Arena Net because they wanted to provide the best games they could and make them playable and enjoyable for everyone.

They create their games from player feedback. They actually listen to what the players have said they wanted and set out to create games to suit the players desires.  Players have been screaming for something different, they are tired of all the clone games and A-net has set out to create new standards. If ANYONE can accomplish that, I believe Arena Net can. They do quality and provide well polished games and refuse to release a game until it is finished.

They believe in being honest with their players, treating their players with respect and try to keep things fun and interesting for their players because that is who they are and what they are about. They do not work on investor timelines, instead they tell us" you will have it when it is finished." If they had wanted to release sub par work and price gouge everyone they would have stayed with Blizzard, but that is not who they are.

Sure, there are many things I would love to see in a new MMORPG that isn;'t going to make it into Guild wars2 , but what they are including absolutely blew my mind. More than I expected, and I am looking forward to Arena Net and Guild wars 2's shaking some ground in the MMORPG industry.

Arena Net never claimed Guild wars 1 was an MMORPG.. it was players who did that. They never had thought of it as an MMORPG, no and clairified the confusion on many occasions. They never told us anything about Guild wars1 that wasn't true, and if they are not going to include something you want, they will tell you up front. They are the Most Honest developers I have ever dealt with, and I do believe when they say they are going to do something, they will do it well. 

They have told us Guild wars2 is a full MMORPG, and I for one believe them, they are the most honest company I have ever dealt with.

~ This coming from someone who gave them a terrible review the first time I played Guild Wars 1. LOL! They won me over after I had already given up on them. Persistant bastards!

Nailzzz

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Nailzzz

      

      Now i admit when i first saw the op's post i also found it to be a bit much in terms of fanboi-ism(and this coming from someone who will proudly admit to being a fanboy), but i really cant argue with the points made since there were paraphrased from an arenanet developer in the first place.

Which every hyped up MMORPG has done. Just scroll back over the DF Forum hype threads on this forum before that game came out. It was the most hype game on this forum at that time.

     yes i remember when that was going around. People tend to hype up a game over its potential. i dont have a problem with that. Yes sometimes in life we get dissapointed. A life without dissapointment is a life available to someone how has never had anything in there life to look forward to. I would rather not have that life.

     You on the other hand seem to have some reason to believe that the item shop will be the typical F2P mmo cash shop money grab. Even you were able to come up with her reasoning for believing otherwise. So i must ask, What makes you believe that it will be worse then the current GW1 cash shop given that the company has established that they know how to make one without involving undue greed?

And do you believe everything a developer of a MMO tell you, before release? "Cough" Darkfall, AoC, War "Cough" .... Sorry I have a Cold.

Anyway joke aside, Guild Wars 1 wasnt a MMO. Its a Singleplayer RPG with Co-op options and a Internet Requirement. Most single player games now days, have online shopping options. Look at Dragon Age Orgin for a modern example of this. But when it comes to a MMORPG, that will cost much more service. You looking at a much open world, with bugs and you name it. Any problem can show up, and thats when you need in game support to handle such things. Server management, is also a important factor.

    This isnt about what an arenanet dev said. It is about what arenanet DID.

      Your answer doesnt at all address the cash shop issue. Your still trying to put forth this idea it seems that servers actually cost somewhere near a significant amount of the sub money these games are generating which simply isnt the case. Even support personel are not that expensive for a game. For the amount of money that Blizzard pulls in there is no excuse for why when you try to call there support line you cant get through half the time, especially when your calling them in reguards to paying them more money. And i live down the street from them. Its isnt a lack of money that is the issue with these games. Its just laziness. MMO's are attractive to business's because you can get away with so much that you couldnt in other business's and the profit margin vs. expense/overhead is insane compared to any other venture. Most corporations get profit margins in the 15-25% bracket and are very large. mmo's can and often do have profit margins in the 200% and up bracket after operating costs. In the case of the more succesful mmo's realistically only about $1 of your monthly $15 investment goes towards the operational cost of the game. You could argue about expansions and initial development costing alot, but we often cover those costs since we have to pay extra for those as well. 

    

 

     As to the gameplay limits being known yet, you could just as easily say that about any game coming out in the future which makes that a pretty worthless statement.

That was basically my point. This Logic applies to all upcoming MMO. They are not excluded from this criticism. And It comes with each and ever one of them as well. Again go back and read some of the Darkfall threads. There was critisim, even if the fanbase bash and flamed , and scared many of them away. IMO, had the fanbase listened to the critics, and demanded more from the developers, the game would have been in a much better shape then it is today.

     I apologize but i dont see what this has to do with Arenanet or GW2 or anything else other than your bitter about how DF turned out. You have my condolenses but i dont see any reason why this should reflect on Arenanet seeing as how they have never set a precedent of not caring what players think. 

 

 

 

     As for GW1 in beta, i was among the many people playing during the beta. Frankly i never saw anything during the beta that made me not want to play, quite the opposite in fact. I could care less about people's definition of game types which in terms of mmo's has become alot more varied since GW1. They could have told me it was an fps-racing-rts hybrid and my responce would have still been "when can i purchase this?" Thousands of us were playing those beta's. Somehow i dont think the fact that the game was instanced went unnoticed.

Yes and thats called Blind Fanboyism. just go back and read some of the early post on GW1 that linger on this forum. Most of the hype came from the fact the game was F2P. Most people moved on to their main MMO, and left GW1 behind as a alt MMO because of the fee. Had that game had a Subscription in its current form, it would have crashed. That says much about the gameplay, but thats just my speculation.

     I would call that apreciating the game for what it is rather than critisizing it for what it isnt. I played the beta. I wasnt decived. I admit the fanboy part, but nothing about my fanboyism is blind. I dont remember anyone claiming it was F2P. They were pretty up front about there B2P business model. The "cash shop" didnt even exist for the first year or 2 (largely because they were light on expansions to purchase up to that point which is pretty much what the cash shop offers). Alot of people did play it as a secondary MMO because its business model allowed people to do so without spending a bunch of money simply to be able to log in. As for the gameplay being an issue, you will find that most of the people would play it as a side mmo due to its superiour pvp compared to everything else. If it had nothing to offer that was better than what there main mmo could provide then why would players bother with it at all?

      Ill never understand what everyone has against instances. There are certain advantages to instancing and not just for the developers but for the players. With instances i dont have to wait in line to kill a boss, or worry about getting kill stealed, or ganked, and being able to actually affect the game world around me in a way that actually changes the game world. At the time when GW1 came out instancing was the easiest way to accomplish all these things. It was a simple tradeoff which, after playing my previous mmo's where these had all been common problems, sounded awesome. 

 

Like I told you above, Guild Wars 1 wasnt a MMO. Its a Singleplayer RPG with Co-op options and a Internet Requirement. Just think about it for a second. had Blizzard placed a Internet Connection requirement on Diablo2, without changing anything gameplay wise, would that make the game any more of a MMO as to the way it is in its current shape where it is optional?

This again here is a major hype scam exploit which I dislike about Guild Wars 1.

Arena-Net never claims GW2 as a MMO, but they do make the statement thats it is "LIKE" a MMO. Thats where the scammed exploit begins.

Ask yourself,,, Why is the "Lack of Monthly Fee" a Feature for Guild Wars, if its not even a MMORPG? Many Single player and Co-op RPG lack Monthly fee, so what makes Guild Wars the exception of this? Why did they list this as a feature, when other rpg games also lack monthly fees.

I tell you why,,,, Because the developers wanted to exploit the similarities it has to a MMO, as it be an actually MMO to unsuspecting consumers of their product. Arena-Net isnt the only developer to exploit this scam on the consumer base.



not sure if you ever heard of a video game called "Dot Hack". It is a RPG for the PS2, that is based on a Anime, that has a Story theme similar to what we know of as a MMORPG computer game. 



Well as you can guess it, the Developers of Dot Hack also exploited this scam tactic, by marketing their game as being similar to a MMORPG but without the MMO part. Why is that a feature for a RPG game?



Would or would not, all RPG, basically be a MMORPG without the MMO part? So what would make this game any different? Great Marketing scam, and there is enough scams in this genre as is. I am not going to speak for everybody here but, I am tired of this genre's scams, and I would like to see the developers come up to par with actual progression, rather then stupid marketing scamming tactics.

      "The first thing you should know about Guild Wars 2 is that, this time around, there’s no question that it’s an MMORPG. It’s an enormous, persistent, living, social world, filled with a wide variety of combat and non-combat activities. There’s so much depth here that you’re never going to run out of new things to discover." This is a quote from the very first entry on the arenanet developer blog for GW2: http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto#more-1891

     As to your "scam" theory. i just dont see where the scam is. They didnt claim GW1 was an mmo in the first place, and they didnt charge more than you would pay for a single player game. For me a scam would have to include someone getting ripped off and ive seen no evidence of them attempting to rip anyone off.

 

     You want to know why thise game is getting hyped? Its because Arenanet has always acted with integrity when it came to its customers. They rarely make empty promises. On the rare occasion where they were unable to add something to there game when they were trying put in (like dual classing or the henchmen in GW2), they didnt BS about it or dodge the question. They were straight up and honest with us as to why. Personally i cant help but respect that. As far as im concerned they have Earned there hype.

Yes and I would want that from developers as well. I mean, hey Warhammer's Developers did it as well, did they not?

Again that doesnt justifiy overhyping something you know little about, especially in a genre like this, where scamming the consumers off of box sells, is the number 1 tactic. Until the Developers can show their work (as in hands on, like release and test), then their words and hype mean little.



History doesnt repeat History, People Repeat History. "Cough" Darkfall, Warhammer, AoC "Cough"



As long as we continue to allow this marketing scam to happen, the more and more Developers will Exploit it. You Want Change, then its time for you all to make some changes yourself, and demand actually improvements rather then just blind hype.

      Actually no, WAR's developers had no integrity at all. Paul Barnett was a clown.  Here is him blatantly lying to the asian market about having all there bugs fixed that the american/european market has had to deal with (problems the game still has):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71r5HiLa8bA. DF was a small relativley untested group who bit off more than they could chew. Warhammer was made by mythic who had already started working on dismantling DAoC and continued to take more steps in the wrong direction with WAR. Funcom has a history of bad releases with AO and then recovering the game afterwards just as they have been doing with AOC. Whether history repeats or people do, Im basing my expectations for GW2 on what they accomplished with GW1. It's based on precedent, not blind faith or hype.

     In light of all that they have been giving us in depth info on various innovative features in GW2 that are all currently in the playable version of the game. More innovative features in fact than any other upcoming mmo including the aforementioned advantages that you get with an instanced game, but in a persistant open world game. And with Arenanet's precedence for honesty, i see no reason at all to think its just hype. If anything, i just dont see how anyone can really be so negative with such little basis. Only possible negative i can see anyone pointing to is the NCSoft logo, but that didnt stop the first GW from being a success.

And once more, what innovating feature are you referring to? Event System? On paper that could sound interesting, but if you sit back and actually look at this without blind fanboyism, you would see that this too was a feature advertised for Darkfall. Oh but that sure turned out well. SOO INNOVATING!!!!

      The dynamic event system is currently in the playable version of the game so it isnt just on paper. You make it sound like there simply making this up as they go along. It is one thing to simply advertise a feature in a game and have it not ever be implemented, Its another to be able to speak in depth as to its mechanics and have people already test said features from outside the company and confirm its existence.http://www.emilysatrium.org/2009/10/arenanet-wish.html

Persistent World is one thing, but a Seamless world is another. Once more, dont let Developer's carefully worded interviews fool you, as they have done to its consumers of this genre. Do I even need to point out Aion and AoC?

     You, like many people on this forum, seem way to hung up on the idea of never seeing a load screen. Honestly i just dont get the reasoning behind why. The whole "it ruins the sense of immersion" argument is hilarious. Like not seeing a load screen is going to make me forget im sitting in front of a computer. Oh noes, this game has zones. I guess thats where the RPG in MMORPG is curently at. We are all role playing that were not actually playing a computer game. Seriously, if thats the biggest problem you can find with an mmo (the fact that the game/servers have to compensate for design limitations) then this genre has reached its peak as far as being close to perfect. Hardware for both pc's and servers have been improving at such speeds over the last several years, that these will all go away soon anyway.

uquipu

Eve makes their money by getting players to buy multiple accounts.
.
Eve is designed around getting players to buy more than one account.
.
Genius.

Unknown

I definitely agree with everything deviliscious said. A lot of people don't know much about ArenaNet.

To MMOExposed, I doubt anyone who has ever had a taste of the game would compare to a traditional MMORPG. If you google Guild Wars you are absolutely sure to find out that it's instanced. ArenaNet have stated this a gazillion times and they have always called it a CORPG. No deception here.

What I liked about Guild Wars was it's PvP. There was no game that can match GW in that respect at the time and I believe this is still the case. The limitless combinations of skills and team setups made games like WoW and Lineage ( the other 2 very popular MMORPGs at the time)  look like a handicapped feature that was only a fraction of the depth that was in GW.

While Guild Wars seems to lack the MMO aspect of MMORPGs, most other MMORPGs seem to lack the RPG part of MMORPG. The world never changes, there isn't a good coherent storyline. RPGs are all about stories, roleplaying and getting this immersive feeling and not only about blowing stuff up and increasing that little number (called level) in the corner of your screen. Most traditional MMORPGs have unrelated quests, the sole purpose of which is to give you extra experience.

Finally, let's talk about PvE. I have a few GW players who have never played other MMORPGs. When I introduced them to WoW, their reaction was 'what the hell is this??? The PvE is so boring and easy. What the hell is the purpose of this.' And when I told them that it was supposed to get fun when they hit the cap after 2 MONTHS, they said hell no way I am playing 2 months to get to level 60. My point is that GW PvE was challenging and fun even if you played solo. No MMORPGs is fun and dynamic outside of raids. Questing is just plain damn easy that ends up being 1,2,3,4 or even 1,2. GW PvE requires skill and coordination.

This is why GW was the main game I played and it was gazillion times more appealing to me than sub MMOs. I would have definitely paid a monthly sub if GW had had one.

dragowulf

The game is still unreleased, so you can't say much until the features they say they've added are there at launch.

/off topic

Gotta love the seasonal dose of spectating trainwrecks.

Karesh

why is everyone calling me a she? lol, I'm a guy XD

Warband

Originally posted by Karesh

why is everyone calling me a she? lol, I'm a guy XD

Probably the name although said out loau it doesn't sound particularily feminine when looked at quickly it does sort of look like a slightly feminine name.