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When law and order breaks down
DeepthroatAO
Member Posts: 2
Greetings!
This thread is a last resort put forward from what can only be described as a fed up and angry player-base
The community is tired of FunCom's inconsistent treatment of players, in regards to handing out bans and the lack thereof.
Recently there has been a Omni Org (Guild) situated on RK1 Atlantean, whom has been caught utilizing exploits in Notum Wars, that allows them to bypass the mechanics for when bases are open to attack.
President of said Org was also caught using an exploit to allow him to bypass the cooldown on Nanobot Shielding, allowing him to to use the single most powerful nano ingame every 5 min or less, a large number of players collected evidence, petitioned, made fraps out of him using the exploit realtime.
FunCom also acknowledged that they had logs proving he had used the mechanic, FunCom however labeled it not as a exploit, but merely a mechanic working as intended, the real fun part is when FunCom also stated that they would change the mechanic due to balance issues.
If we go back 1-2 years in time a player got banned for exploiting the very same nano.
Discussing exploits is strictly prohibited on the official Anarchy Online forums, a thread was put up to discuss this game mechanic, it was however removed shortly after with no explanation given as to why.
Recently a Clan player was banned for using speedhack, he got banned for 3 months. As he should have been.
In the same period another Clan player was banned, without any evidence other than being petitioned, he was later unbanned as FunCom discovered that he had done nothing wrong at all.
So here we have a Org President using what is clearly an exploit, FunCom acknowledge that he has used the accused mechanic, also acknowledge that the Org has been using an exploit in Notum Wars.
Yet the person goes free without any action taken against him, even tho FunCom has evidence of foul play, and we as the players are tired of this!
This is indeed the last resort, in hope to bring attention to the severe inconsistently handling of exploiting ingame.
Even a lot of the games Professionals agree that this is a clear exploit, yet FunCom seams to be protecting the person in question. Content with removing the exploits he finds, and let him continue on his merry way.
Comments
I was going to post a response here to this absurdity but I don't want to encourage this "run to other forums" thing.
You have a good day.
Colin Cragg
CPO - World of Horsecraft AB
www.starstable.com
What absurdity?
Means, I am one of many people who have followed the designated procedure for reporting exploits in AO. I emailed the exploits team last week when a group of people were using exploits to open bases up to attack at their leisure at strange hours in the morning. This is the 3rd time those particular people have committed this exploit in the last few months.
I also sent you a private message flagging up the issue, both suggesting a way to stop the exploit and asking you to take action against the people who were doing it.
I recieved absolutely no response by following the proper reporting procedure. Neither from you, nor the Funcom exploits team. I therefore have to voice my support for the OP and condemn Funcom's customer services for Anarchy Online. This is not how you run a business. You cannot offer a product to consumers and have one set of rules for one group of customers and a completely different set of rules for another.
That is what has happened here. Exploits have been reported, and not only have you failed to respond to a valid complaint, but you've let the people who perpetrated it off without any punishment. Even if you followed the link I posted to you and stop the exploit from being possible, you're basically giving those cheaters a green flag to exploit as much as they see fit until you next take the servers down and patch the client.
My subscription to AO is nearing the end of its cycle and because I feel like a second class player in my own game, because I feel that my right to report a bug and have it heard is undermined, I'm seriously considering not renewing my subscription. This game has earned years of my membership, but you may have just lost a customer.
Dear Means
We tried to bring this up on Anarchy Online's public forums, the threads got removed and some people even got 3 infractions for "Discussing exploits" this sort of behavior from the AO Custome Service team is normally only reserved for exploits, but as we all know by now FunCom has slated it as "working as intended mechanic" if you want absurdity you don't get closer than that.
Players feel violated, your staff is prohibiting us from bringing up a discussion on a "working as intended" mechanic, what option do you leave us?
We as paying customers have the right to demand fair and equal treatment, when we then get repeated failure to deal with exploits, we will fight back.
With the number of reports and petitions regarding said players activities, is it that far fetched to think you would actually commit resources to the situation?
Instead we get treatment of the symptoms, instead of the cause.
FunCom has failed in this issue, and the actions within FunCom/FunCom Customer Service is gravely contradictory.
We will scream loud til you deal with the issue at hand.
Yep. Unfortunately posting this here is the only way to have any discussion about this, as official AO forums lose the posts rather fast. Discussing exploits is not allowed as per rules, but this can't be an exploit right - why else is the guy not punished
Been playing Anarchy Online for years, and one of the biggest reasons for staying this long has been the community and, not sure how to describe it... friendly and fair attitude of the people behind it - despite some disagreements with new additions to game during the years. Compared to a certain spaceship mmo with rather cold atmosphere and where I heard even some of the "staff" was cheating... it's been quite different.
Things like this tho... we've been watching this organisation and particular player continuing his doings for months, maybe a year soon. Hacks and exploits have changed, but they/him keep going. Petitions seem to have no effect, posts on forums get moderated or removed. What else is there we can do?
AO is a great game and hopefully with the new engine will draw many new (and old) faces to the game. But people need, and deserve, equal treatment. These kind of things just make people sad and frustrated, unlikely to stay in the game.
It does get absurd when the game director claims it is working as intended, and not an exploit. But people start receiving warnings and threads are removed for discussing an exploit, which according to the GD is not an exploit.
The bottom line is that players are exploiting repeatedly, and getting away with it. And since we cannot discuss this on the official forums, taking it to a third party forum is the only choice we are left with.
Bump!
For everyone that missed the original conversation (that Funcom deleted!), here it is;
http://arandomdayinao.b0x.com/forums/showthread1cf4.html?t=577680
Wow. So many one post wonders agreeing with each other, it must be true.
I'll definitely take all of your words over the Game Director.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
What they are saying is still true, there is a simple reason for the "one hit wonders" and that's because people have never needed to go to a 3rd party site to deal with incidents like this.
Peoples voices are being silenced and punished on the offical forums, what would you do?
Ad astra per astrada
This is true! There have even been cases where players have been banned before for doing the same thing this said character has done. And now its "working as intended", how is this fair? People are breaking the rules and no announcement, or message from FC on this topic has been posted, or god forbid an actual pacth in a timley manner to fix this issue. I have been a paying customer in this game since 2001, and i have always had high reguards on how cheating was taken care of in this game, but that is sure fading faster and faster on a daily basis. At the rate things keep going, i will not be re subscribing my account when it comes time unless something is done about this. If your worried about banning people to loose money, then you better be ready to have a lot of pissed of players quitting on your game very fast.
All I can say is lol I played ao for 5.5 years as one of the founding member of Tranquility.I won't even bother posting all the exploits clan have and do use on a regular basis and where never banned for it Storm was one of the dirtiest clan orgs in the game who constantly exploited even had gms tp omni out of tara when they couldn't get control of it years ago/
So sorry I have no sympathy if clan gets a lil taste of what they have abused and exploiited for years.
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
Tranquility was a great Org, and I do miss it and some members I'd call friends. All I can say is that your reasoning falls prey to it's own fallacy.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Ad astra per astrada
@eyeswideopen/pepsi1028
If you bothered to read the AO thread posted above. You'd see 82 posts in less than 8 hours, from alot of AO old timers. There would have been alot more if FC hadn't deleted it. Expect more one post wonders as this issue can't be talked about on AO's forums.
@rznkain
Not sure what your point is tbh. You're saying exploits are rife in Anarchy-Online. That they have been for years and still are. In a negative way you're agreeing with the OP.
I find it incredibly disheartening that this person has not been banned yet.
Or maybe its possible that these things are actually happening and it is a problem. Im sure all these people came and made their accounts here because all this stuff said above is an outright lie, and everyone just happens to say the same thing, now that sounds very reasonable.
And if the Game Director wouldnt have our discussions about it removed, we wouldnt even be here in the first place.
I used to pvp a lot a few years ago, and loved it, but I don't even bother anymore. A big part of the reason why, is because of all the rampant exploiting/hacking going on. It's no fun playing against cheaters, and it's no fun always having to wonder if that guy or the next guy was or could be cheating.
Funcom owes its players to do their best at keeping the game fair, and the exploiters out. I truely believe they aren't doing that. People on both sides exploit for months and even years with no consequences. Look how long it took the heal graft to get fixed.
Means, you can call this thread absurd and try to down-play it all you want, but the bottom line is the players came here because you left them no option. They tried everything else, but your whole "hush-hush" attitude about exploits is only detrimental to the situation. I believe they even tried the "accepted" avenues of reporting exploits and exploiters, but the exploiters continue to exploit. Name and shame them. Ban them and make examples out of them. And I don't just mean the omni that this thread is about, but the cheaters on both sides. Make it known that you won't tollerate this shit.
I also heard that you are going to fix this exploit in the next update, and that's exactly what you should do. But there's always going to be more exploits, and it's going to be the same people abusing them unless you slap them on the wrist and let them know that you're watching. Right now it seems like you can do anything you want in AO without consequence, as long as it's not talking about exploits on the forums.
Although i agree with Means on the hiding in another forum topic, he has to understand that people want to be heard, if not by an administrator then by their peers. Second of all i can assure every person who reads this topic that not only exploits, but a full-fledged hack program exists, as i currently am in posession of the program which, after several ignored emails to funcom directly, i petitioned in-game at my own risk to eliminate (thank you to the GM who listened). The program no longer works, but the problem with exploiting still exists. Funcom is going to lose more than the $15 a month from the players they decide not to ban in this instance, as i have already downloaded the World of Warcraft trial and although i have enjoyed it, it is not as good as Anarchy Online save for the fact that Blizzard does a better job at eliminating hackers and exploits, along with the people who abuse them.
I can also assure everyone that the program was indeed used by the org in question, as i raced one of the members across Perpetual Wastelands at 1.3x the maximum speed the game will allow. furthermore, an example we all can relate to is having blinded an enemy in Battlestations and having watched them run to the teleporter on their first try. this is not chance, as the program allowed immunity to the effect of blinds.
I have heard rumors about a member of the org in question being banned for having QL300 Combined Commando's armor on their 171 Martial Artist, which of course is impossible no matter how hard you twink because of the title lock. I find it strange that Playboyfixer was permanently banned for personality conflicts and such (It's an example, don't bite my head off) but that said hacker continues playing.
Means has done an excellent job in progressing the game, however previous parts still require maintinance. Several times have i petitioned and have been contacted by one particular GM (i will not mention his name, though many people probably already know) who has never once aided with the problem at hand. In one instance, where i could not open GMS, This GM told me to contact customer support, left an email, and closed the petition. On another instance i encountered a similar problem, again where i could not access GMS. the GM (a different one) instructed me to reset my preferences folder, and voila, the problem was fixed. This sounds like a simple case of laziness, but due to other issues i have had with this GM i am lead to believe it is a high-ranking ARK with a hefty dose of factionism.
At this point, many may wonder how i came into posession of the program i have spoke so much about. Yes, indeed, i obtained it from another Clanner, which means of course that there are hackers and exploiters on both factions in the game. I turned the program in so that the playing field would be level again. I do not like having to use a program to be able to survive in-game while i twinked my character from the ground up for over a year. All of these hackers and exploiters need to be taken down. I am not trying to make my side stronger. Win or lose, if my opponent fought well, they deserve the victory. Someone who fights with outside assistance does not deserve my respect.
When i turned in the program Funcom managed to dispose of it in the following patch, however despite my comment that the program leaves footprints in the Clientside Database of the hacker, there were no bans made. The problem has grown now that i do not believe funcom could ban all of the players in question, as it would probably be a good chunk of the game. Either bans need to be made or the Advisors of Rubi-Ka start listening to both factions.
To Means and FunCom
As you might have noticed by now, this is a topic of concern in the AO community. I wont write anything about how bad the exploiters are as its obvious in my opinion.
What I do want to write about is how you communicate with the community. The replay made by a "Means" makes my rely wish that its some one else who have registered that name and not the "real" Means. I think its actually quite simple to solve this kinds of situations. As you must have noticed, there are a few players who "leads" the PvP efforts on the Clan side, and I'm guessing its the same on the omni side. Why not just take a few minutes and explain to those what your are doing and why about the matter and have a few minutes when they can ask questions and come with suggestions. After that they can spread the word to the rest of the community about what's being done.
I would rely hate if several good players leaves the game just because an lack of communication from FunCom, because I know that more people will follow in there footsteps if the leave.
/Sword
Sometimes I think that people play more for this kind of drama then they do for any other reason.
That my friend, is right on the money.
Sadly, I agree. its unfortunate they have to choose this topic to obsess about, as typically people do not take dramawhores seriously. Both sides need to focus on the topic for anything to get done.
This doesn't surprise me in the slightest and I feel for the protestors in this thread. I quit the game back in late summer 2006 over the way they handled the debacle that errupted after banning the pvp-ers on clan side.
(For those that don't know/remember) A few months before Funcom released a pvp expansion they banned a large number of the best clan pvpers, while clan was completely dominating the pvp, and then seemed totally unprepared for or sympathetic to a very upset and vocal group of the community reacting to the abrupt and numerous bannings which were targeted entirely on the clan side. Perhaps all of the bans were legitimate but it seemed to some, myself included, like one hell'uva coincidence.
All we wanted was some simple reassurance that this wasn't a cunningly devised machiavellian plot to balance the pvp in preparation of the expansion but the CS responded in exactly the same way with thread deletions, forum bans and silence. That was all I had to see to make up my mind, I cancelled my account and havn't given Funcom a penny of my cash for any of their games ever since.
I love the game but I hold Funcom with the highest levels of contempt for their ineptitude in foresight and public relations. I'm sad to see they havn't changed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-iTNrfqZnE
That's a frapsing of the NT mentioned in the OP, somehow removing his 30 minute lockout from NBS.
I also tried finding back the website that listed the series of events that followed when FC banned pretty much every clan leader active in NW, but to no avail.
The handling of exploits and harrasment, but also of things like getting help from FC after being hacked, by FC has always been very unprofessional. Any outcome is possible, entirely dependant on who gets to handle the petition.
And since there is no definite list of exploits and some possible exploits have been around forever, telling what is an exploit and what is to be considered a "feature", is pretty much impossible.
It seems that Rhoklaw was right on the money, as Funcom just today deleted my forum thread congratulating them on successfully diffusing the AOMH program, which has been used for a rather long time to tip the balance in PvP, although i disagree that it is to hide admission of guilt. i believe it is much more like the catholic church in the middle-ages, which systematically destroyed all information which could possibly oppose it. As a result of this,
I have cancelled my subscription
At the end of this cycle i will be trying Eve Online for a change of scenery. When Means was placed in power i held him in high regards but it seems even taking credit for eliminating an outdated program would be admitting that the program existed. There is no more "unless Funcom" because Funcom won't. Hopefully another company can do a better job with their players and not be run by them like they are in this game.
Perhaps cutting Funcom's funding will force their hand? clearly they dont want to make martyrs by banning people, so why not play dirty on our side too? try different games for a change. Anarchy Online is a great game and i hope i'll be able to come back to it some day, but for now it is too unfair.
Have a good life, Funcom, as it is almost over.
AO is a game based on elitism. The elitists can get away with anything. Try posting new ideas, problems or etc against them on the ao forum and watch what happens to you and your posts. My sig and eveything is loaded full of some of the samples. need I say more....