I wont say I dont like Sandbox games but there are simply no good Sandbox games out there. One day a REAL company will make a TRUE sandbox game but these games that call them selves sandboxes right now are all boring and just cheap imatations.
I wont say I dont like Sandbox games but there are simply no good Sandbox games out there. One day a REAL company will make a TRUE sandbox game but these games that call them selves sandboxes right now are all boring and just cheap imatations.
I agree.
Even if a company manages to create a TRUE sandbox. You all will still find faults in it saying this and that. Face it, we all are just tired with MMOs. Give up and just walk out that front door and enjoy life.
What I am wondering is why are developers so keen on either going full sandbox or full "theme park". The fact is I do like some choice in a game, I like having many things to do and such. However I also like having some sense of direction in a game and the last thing I want to do is to be wandering around like a lost puppy thinking of something to do.
I'm just wondering why so many developers feel the need to go to the extremes. I also feel like the term "sandbox" is used as a cop-out by many developers and as a synonym for "no content".
I think what it all comes down to is that what a person finds entertaining is completely subjective.
Think about it. If a Supply Chain Manager just spent 8 or more hours trying to figure out the logistics of matching his company's demand for hard resources with a supplier offering the right price, do you think he'd spend his spare time working the market in EvE?
Would an ideas man for an advertising agency, who spent his working hours trying to come up with best multimedia marketing campaign for his client want to spend his spare time trying to make up his own fun in another sandbox game?
Sometimes, we want a little passivity. Sometimes, we just want a story to read and follow along (generally speaking). That's just fine. I enjoy a good Themepark game from time to time when I just don't feel like doing any more "work", and I tilt more towards sandbox style overall.
Personal preference shouldn't be flamed, because you may not like what I like and vice versa.
The problem is when game developers focus on one category at the expense of another. Tell them what they should be making rather than telling a peson with freedom of preference what they should be playing.
Sidenote- I don't work in supply chain, so the IMMENSE amount of fun I'm having playing the trade game in EvE is quite satisfying. Personal preference, naturally.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I like the fact in some sandbox games where the goals you achieve are the ones you set yourself. Like making a town which is one of many things one could do. Which can be set into smaller more acheivable goals which you create yourself. Purchasing land, getting the resources together (which usualy are alot and require a community effort or alot of spare time just for one building yet alone a whole town) preparing the land and resources and processing to get the finished product etc.
In some games this wouldn't be a big deal or even a viable option as it's click here, go there and it's already there etc. Which is fine and gives you a direction etc but in some cases it holds your hand and it's rather easy, boring and repetative.
The process of getting the resources together, and making a living off of non combat required trade skilling is boring to alot of people. But a game where food and water is hard and you successfuly overcome hunger feels like an accomplishment in itself which is irrelevant for games like WoW etc where hunger doesn't even exist.
It's still my favorite MMO game and the longest I played.
Having said that, I am definitely not a sandbox fan. I'm a UO fan. EvE, SWG, MO, DF, Ryzom, AC. None of them appealed to me. The game I played 2nd longest after UO was DAoC, with LOTRO catching up (although, admittedly if I didn't have a lifetime sub I would have cancelled LOTRO a long time ago but I still do play from time to time).
I'm also not a themepark fan.
What I am is a fan of games that I find fun to play. Themepark or Sandbox has nothing to do with it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I played KOD for about 3 years then Meridian 59 for about 2 years then UO came along which pretty much made everything before it crap. Played that for about 4 years. There was something Pre UO which UO copied but just did better of which the games name escape me (not the realm) but that is what everything is based on these days. Then EQ came along which again was a copy of something which wasn't EQ and from then on a new standard was set. Now there is WoW which all the games try to copy.
Think about it. If a Supply Chain Manager just spent 8 or more hours trying to figure out the logistics of matching his company's demand for hard resources with a supplier offering the right price, do you think he'd spend his spare time working the market in EvE?
Would an ideas man for an advertising agency, who spent his working hours trying to come up with best multimedia marketing campaign for his client want to spend his spare time trying to make up his own fun in another sandbox game?
Sometimes, we want a little passivity. Sometimes, we just want a story to read and follow along (generally speaking). That's just fine. I enjoy a good Themepark game from time to time when I just don't feel like doing any more "work", and I tilt more towards sandbox style overall.
Personal preference shouldn't be flamed, because you may not like what I like and vice versa.
The problem is when game developers focus on one category at the expense of another. Tell them what they should be making rather than telling a peson with freedom of preference what they should be playing.
Sidenote- I don't work in supply chain, so the IMMENSE amount of fun I'm having playing the trade game in EvE is quite satisfying. Personal preference, naturally.
I do work in supply chain logistics, and I find EVE tremendously absorbing and interesting to play.
Also, you have no idea how intensely satisfying it is for me to blow up Haulers
Think about it. If a Supply Chain Manager just spent 8 or more hours trying to figure out the logistics of matching his company's demand for hard resources with a supplier offering the right price, do you think he'd spend his spare time working the market in EvE?
Would an ideas man for an advertising agency, who spent his working hours trying to come up with best multimedia marketing campaign for his client want to spend his spare time trying to make up his own fun in another sandbox game?
Sometimes, we want a little passivity. Sometimes, we just want a story to read and follow along (generally speaking). That's just fine. I enjoy a good Themepark game from time to time when I just don't feel like doing any more "work", and I tilt more towards sandbox style overall.
Personal preference shouldn't be flamed, because you may not like what I like and vice versa.
The problem is when game developers focus on one category at the expense of another. Tell them what they should be making rather than telling a peson with freedom of preference what they should be playing.
Sidenote- I don't work in supply chain, so the IMMENSE amount of fun I'm having playing the trade game in EvE is quite satisfying. Personal preference, naturally.
I do work in supply chain logistics, and I find EVE tremendously absorbing and interesting to play.
Also, you have no idea how intensely satisfying it is for me to blow up Haulers
I lol'd.
Also @ jonrd. while your points is somewhat true (if you do it in RL no reason to repeat that online), the beauty of sandbox is that you can choose what you want to do. It doesnt suggest, let say you work with advertisment so you should play doing advertisement work. You can approach it from a different angle, lets say IRL you're an upstanding citizen you can be a criminal in sandbox games. It wont restrict you.
In the end of the day, MMOs are just a way so we can escape from RL.
I wont say I dont like Sandbox games but there are simply no good Sandbox games out there. One day a REAL company will make a TRUE sandbox game but these games that call them selves sandboxes right now are all boring and just cheap imatations.
Agree.. I've tried for months to get the attention of gaming companies to look at a game Iv'e been working on for years.. Nothing.. no response whatsoever.. But I figured as much, since the mmo industry is in this themepark, minimal work, maximize profit mentality.. A sandbox game takes more time and labor to make, and more time and labor to keep up once it goes live.. I honestly don't believe there is a company out there today that will choose quality over quantity.. Even Blizz that I once respected is turning into "give the least amount service".. (hype it) and maximize profit.. With the subsription numbers they have, and revenue coming in, there is no excuse why WoW doesnt' have all the sandbox features like other games, and pumping out an Xpac once a year..
Your credentials beyond your first MMO experience have nothing to do with it. If you hopped into MMO gaming during the highlight years around UO, you'd be like us.
This is patently false. I hopped into MMO gaming with UO and I'm not like you.
Granted, I do enjoy EVE, but I like themepark games, too. And having played online games for 15+ years, I still think no MMO yet measures up to the best of single player games. And to me, this is primarily about the quality of directed content.
I think thast ok, to each there own honestly i like a mix.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I have yet to see a MMO where you can truly form the world. By this I mean not placing your pitty flag on some area claiming it. I mean influencing the behaviour of major NPC factions.
Take the pretty simple example of in a medieval setting having to either support the marriage of prince and princess of two opposing factions or taking sides of one of their snotty fathers. Hence you either cause peace or war between the houses. Other players that enter the area later wont get this option anymore. They wont be present at a meeting between the leaders discussing the marriage like the previous player was. The new player would observe the houses being in war together now. He then could be given the option to further support one side or initiate efforts to a peace treaty again. Or in case the earlier player initiated peace already decide to support some treacherous new elements on one side to cause havoc again.
By some faction system the player's alignment could then lead to the area being mostly hostile or mostly peaceful towards him. This Id call shaping the world which is the most important thing Id expect from a sandbox.
Originally posted by madeux Originally posted by GTwander Your credentials beyond your first MMO experience have nothing to do with it. If you hopped into MMO gaming during the highlight years around UO, you'd be like us. Nobody can get on your case for being presented structured games from the beginning and desiring more of it, but they will.
I hopped into gaming during these so called "highlight" years, and I am not like you. These "sandbox" guys come from an era that only ever existed in their heads.
There was a time when mmo games like Ultima were highly interactive. You could do things like trapping a bag with a poison potion in it, leaving it on the ground and waiting for someone too curious to prey upon. Build your own house (or guild hall) wherever you want choosing from many shapes and many things to put in. Placing a book in your house so your guests could sign it, or have an *actual* library made of ingame books with real information stored in it. Get drunk and vomit in the middle of the street leaving an unpleasant "gift" to bypassers. Organise a fishing challenge onboard your own ship.
Nowadays you can't do any single one of these things in any game less than 4-5 years old that i know of.
Well, Ryzom is half-finished and empty. And as it's a thankless task soloing that makes it pretty hopeless for a newbie. I like Eve a lot apart from the timebased levelling. I agree that most MMOs aren't really sandbox by strict definition (if there is one) The only true sandbox I've played is Second Life. A lot of gamers seem to mean PvP when they say sandbox, hence the carebear comment by one user.
I wont say I dont like Sandbox games but there are simply no good Sandbox games out there. One day a REAL company will make a TRUE sandbox game but these games that call them selves sandboxes right now are all boring and just cheap imatations.
I find that I like both types of games for different reasons, or perhaps what I enjoy is elements from both.
I like my games to have quests, I just don't want my character progression to be tied completely to them.
I like my game to offer specialized builds, but I don't like the idea of a single class per character limit. Dual classing or no classes is preferable.
I like games that provide territory for players to control and dominate, both DAOC (more of a themepark) and EVE (more of a sandbox) have provided me this.
I like games that have PVP, however I like PVP to have limits and consequences. Once again, DAOC and EVE both game this to me without being FFA gankfests which I don't feel is a defining characteristic of a sandbox game (screw the concept of 'player freedom', its a myth set up to justify creating a gankers paradise)
I currently play EVE and Earth Ethernal, which are both on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as I'm concerned and yet I enjoy both equally.
I do think that outside of EVE (which appeals to a very small niche) there are no good, modern sandbox games so its not really fair to judge them based on available offerings. I still think a well made rantasy style sandbox game could easily draw in 500K subs but it has to stay away from the FFA full loot mechanic that recent titles have tried to incorporate.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Recently Yahtzee did a review on Red Dead Redemption where he said that many of the things one can do in the game can pretty much be done for their own sake.
His point was that he was the type of person who wanted some "game" in his game.
I think a similar feeling probably pervades the themepark crowd over the sandbox crowd.
There are people who would like to play a game and there are people who would like to experience a world. The unfortunate thing about the "world" idea is that it can devolve into the drudgery of actual life. As a friend of mine remarked with regards to SWG "it was like having a second job that I didn't get paid for".
The sandbox people seem to like the idea of tapping the world's resources and interacting with the players in a way that is plausible in a world. The thempark players like the idea of playing a game.
and this is where you have the schism. Not to say there isn't overlap.
when I played Lineage 2 and then tried WoW at launch, it was like a breath of fresh air. Instead of going into a field and grinding for hours waiting for some sort of player interaction, I could instead embark upon a quest and actually have meaning to my actions. At least meaning to killing mobs.
Though once, coming from LOTRO to a siege in Lineage 2 I remarked how one could feel that the siege had far more meaning and consequence than anything I had experienced in LOTRO.
In the end I liike a bit of both but never want a game to devolve into a second job.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
*Whew! There I have finally admitted it to myself. After several years of beleiving I would prefer sandbox playstyles and after playing a few (argueably, EVE Online and Ryzom) I realize that I simply dont like the lack of direction. I want and desire some direction. I like goals being presented and I feel like I have accomplished something when I attain them. Even though those goals were provided to me as opposed to me making them up for myself.
I have a great career, I work hard, and when I get home I want to play and have some fun with my favorite hobby (Gaming, MMOs in particular). Im simply not up for sitting there wondering what Im going to do next. I tried to like EVE, Im trying to like Ryzom, they are fine games, great ideas, but I get bored quickly without some predefined goals and tasks. I suppose many others feel this way and perhaps that makes me nothing but a cog in the wheel Maybe one day someone will come out with a game that incorporates sandbox elements and scripted elements in such a way that appeals to the masses but until then, Ill stick to themepark type games.
Thanks for listening.
Your opinion makes sense. But what do you do when you achieve the goals they set for you? This is why many of us like sandbox. There is no endgame. You dont get to the end, and start over or quit.
I dont like sandbox games either and thats coming from a guy who used to play age of empire 1,2,3 , railroad tycoon 2,3 and civilization 3,4 so I dont lack any creativity or self thinking but honestly most sandbox games now are so empty they lack the sand truly, we need a structure in our games, laws that govern us and ofc NPC.
I tried liking EVE, I truly did but its a very boring game, very boring system, for sandboxes I am sorry I will stick to single player games.
They cripple the bird's wing, and then condemn it for not flying as fast as they.Malcolm X
I really don't want to sound like a fanboy or something but TERA is going to be for you OP its sandboxed styled themepark and i like it from what i read till now
Comments
Agree.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Even if a company manages to create a TRUE sandbox. You all will still find faults in it saying this and that. Face it, we all are just tired with MMOs. Give up and just walk out that front door and enjoy life.
Peace out.
I agree with the OP.
What I am wondering is why are developers so keen on either going full sandbox or full "theme park". The fact is I do like some choice in a game, I like having many things to do and such. However I also like having some sense of direction in a game and the last thing I want to do is to be wandering around like a lost puppy thinking of something to do.
I'm just wondering why so many developers feel the need to go to the extremes. I also feel like the term "sandbox" is used as a cop-out by many developers and as a synonym for "no content".
I think what it all comes down to is that what a person finds entertaining is completely subjective.
Think about it. If a Supply Chain Manager just spent 8 or more hours trying to figure out the logistics of matching his company's demand for hard resources with a supplier offering the right price, do you think he'd spend his spare time working the market in EvE?
Would an ideas man for an advertising agency, who spent his working hours trying to come up with best multimedia marketing campaign for his client want to spend his spare time trying to make up his own fun in another sandbox game?
Sometimes, we want a little passivity. Sometimes, we just want a story to read and follow along (generally speaking). That's just fine. I enjoy a good Themepark game from time to time when I just don't feel like doing any more "work", and I tilt more towards sandbox style overall.
Personal preference shouldn't be flamed, because you may not like what I like and vice versa.
The problem is when game developers focus on one category at the expense of another. Tell them what they should be making rather than telling a peson with freedom of preference what they should be playing.
Sidenote- I don't work in supply chain, so the IMMENSE amount of fun I'm having playing the trade game in EvE is quite satisfying.
Personal preference, naturally.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I like the fact in some sandbox games where the goals you achieve are the ones you set yourself. Like making a town which is one of many things one could do. Which can be set into smaller more acheivable goals which you create yourself. Purchasing land, getting the resources together (which usualy are alot and require a community effort or alot of spare time just for one building yet alone a whole town) preparing the land and resources and processing to get the finished product etc.
In some games this wouldn't be a big deal or even a viable option as it's click here, go there and it's already there etc. Which is fine and gives you a direction etc but in some cases it holds your hand and it's rather easy, boring and repetative.
The process of getting the resources together, and making a living off of non combat required trade skilling is boring to alot of people. But a game where food and water is hard and you successfuly overcome hunger feels like an accomplishment in itself which is irrelevant for games like WoW etc where hunger doesn't even exist.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
My first MMO was UO. I played for 6+ years.
It's still my favorite MMO game and the longest I played.
Having said that, I am definitely not a sandbox fan. I'm a UO fan. EvE, SWG, MO, DF, Ryzom, AC. None of them appealed to me. The game I played 2nd longest after UO was DAoC, with LOTRO catching up (although, admittedly if I didn't have a lifetime sub I would have cancelled LOTRO a long time ago but I still do play from time to time).
I'm also not a themepark fan.
What I am is a fan of games that I find fun to play. Themepark or Sandbox has nothing to do with it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I played KOD for about 3 years then Meridian 59 for about 2 years then UO came along which pretty much made everything before it crap. Played that for about 4 years. There was something Pre UO which UO copied but just did better of which the games name escape me (not the realm) but that is what everything is based on these days. Then EQ came along which again was a copy of something which wasn't EQ and from then on a new standard was set. Now there is WoW which all the games try to copy.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I do work in supply chain logistics, and I find EVE tremendously absorbing and interesting to play.
Also, you have no idea how intensely satisfying it is for me to blow up Haulers
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I lol'd.
Also @ jonrd. while your points is somewhat true (if you do it in RL no reason to repeat that online), the beauty of sandbox is that you can choose what you want to do. It doesnt suggest, let say you work with advertisment so you should play doing advertisement work. You can approach it from a different angle, lets say IRL you're an upstanding citizen you can be a criminal in sandbox games. It wont restrict you.
In the end of the day, MMOs are just a way so we can escape from RL.
Agree.. I've tried for months to get the attention of gaming companies to look at a game Iv'e been working on for years.. Nothing.. no response whatsoever.. But I figured as much, since the mmo industry is in this themepark, minimal work, maximize profit mentality.. A sandbox game takes more time and labor to make, and more time and labor to keep up once it goes live.. I honestly don't believe there is a company out there today that will choose quality over quantity.. Even Blizz that I once respected is turning into "give the least amount service".. (hype it) and maximize profit.. With the subsription numbers they have, and revenue coming in, there is no excuse why WoW doesnt' have all the sandbox features like other games, and pumping out an Xpac once a year..
OP: try fallen earth, thats a themepark game masked as sandbox, you could like it.
This is patently false. I hopped into MMO gaming with UO and I'm not like you.
Granted, I do enjoy EVE, but I like themepark games, too. And having played online games for 15+ years, I still think no MMO yet measures up to the best of single player games. And to me, this is primarily about the quality of directed content.
I think thast ok, to each there own honestly i like a mix.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I have yet to see a MMO where you can truly form the world. By this I mean not placing your pitty flag on some area claiming it. I mean influencing the behaviour of major NPC factions.
Take the pretty simple example of in a medieval setting having to either support the marriage of prince and princess of two opposing factions or taking sides of one of their snotty fathers. Hence you either cause peace or war between the houses. Other players that enter the area later wont get this option anymore. They wont be present at a meeting between the leaders discussing the marriage like the previous player was. The new player would observe the houses being in war together now. He then could be given the option to further support one side or initiate efforts to a peace treaty again. Or in case the earlier player initiated peace already decide to support some treacherous new elements on one side to cause havoc again.
By some faction system the player's alignment could then lead to the area being mostly hostile or mostly peaceful towards him. This Id call shaping the world which is the most important thing Id expect from a sandbox.
These "sandbox" guys come from an era that only ever existed in their heads.
There was a time when mmo games like Ultima were highly interactive. You could do things like trapping a bag with a poison potion in it, leaving it on the ground and waiting for someone too curious to prey upon. Build your own house (or guild hall) wherever you want choosing from many shapes and many things to put in. Placing a book in your house so your guests could sign it, or have an *actual* library made of ingame books with real information stored in it. Get drunk and vomit in the middle of the street leaving an unpleasant "gift" to bypassers. Organise a fishing challenge onboard your own ship.
Nowadays you can't do any single one of these things in any game less than 4-5 years old that i know of.
Well, Ryzom is half-finished and empty. And as it's a thankless task soloing that makes it pretty hopeless for a newbie. I like Eve a lot apart from the timebased levelling. I agree that most MMOs aren't really sandbox by strict definition (if there is one) The only true sandbox I've played is Second Life. A lot of gamers seem to mean PvP when they say sandbox, hence the carebear comment by one user.
Agree.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
This is how I see sandbox games.
Most peoples want to do something like this
Since the big majority lack imagination and artistic skills they end up doing this instead
So we the unimaginative peoples let the professionals do what they can do best and we take the ride. If donne properly it can be a hell of a ride.
I find that I like both types of games for different reasons, or perhaps what I enjoy is elements from both.
I like my games to have quests, I just don't want my character progression to be tied completely to them.
I like my game to offer specialized builds, but I don't like the idea of a single class per character limit. Dual classing or no classes is preferable.
I like games that provide territory for players to control and dominate, both DAOC (more of a themepark) and EVE (more of a sandbox) have provided me this.
I like games that have PVP, however I like PVP to have limits and consequences. Once again, DAOC and EVE both game this to me without being FFA gankfests which I don't feel is a defining characteristic of a sandbox game (screw the concept of 'player freedom', its a myth set up to justify creating a gankers paradise)
I currently play EVE and Earth Ethernal, which are both on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as I'm concerned and yet I enjoy both equally.
I do think that outside of EVE (which appeals to a very small niche) there are no good, modern sandbox games so its not really fair to judge them based on available offerings. I still think a well made rantasy style sandbox game could easily draw in 500K subs but it has to stay away from the FFA full loot mechanic that recent titles have tried to incorporate.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Recently Yahtzee did a review on Red Dead Redemption where he said that many of the things one can do in the game can pretty much be done for their own sake.
His point was that he was the type of person who wanted some "game" in his game.
I think a similar feeling probably pervades the themepark crowd over the sandbox crowd.
There are people who would like to play a game and there are people who would like to experience a world. The unfortunate thing about the "world" idea is that it can devolve into the drudgery of actual life. As a friend of mine remarked with regards to SWG "it was like having a second job that I didn't get paid for".
The sandbox people seem to like the idea of tapping the world's resources and interacting with the players in a way that is plausible in a world. The thempark players like the idea of playing a game.
and this is where you have the schism. Not to say there isn't overlap.
when I played Lineage 2 and then tried WoW at launch, it was like a breath of fresh air. Instead of going into a field and grinding for hours waiting for some sort of player interaction, I could instead embark upon a quest and actually have meaning to my actions. At least meaning to killing mobs.
Though once, coming from LOTRO to a siege in Lineage 2 I remarked how one could feel that the siege had far more meaning and consequence than anything I had experienced in LOTRO.
In the end I liike a bit of both but never want a game to devolve into a second job.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Your opinion makes sense. But what do you do when you achieve the goals they set for you? This is why many of us like sandbox. There is no endgame. You dont get to the end, and start over or quit.
I dont like sandbox games either and thats coming from a guy who used to play age of empire 1,2,3 , railroad tycoon 2,3 and civilization 3,4 so I dont lack any creativity or self thinking but honestly most sandbox games now are so empty they lack the sand truly, we need a structure in our games, laws that govern us and ofc NPC.
I tried liking EVE, I truly did but its a very boring game, very boring system, for sandboxes I am sorry I will stick to single player games.
They cripple the bird's wing, and then condemn it for not flying as fast as they.Malcolm X
.
Give us an example of the imagination and goals you are talking about.
.
All MMOs are very simple.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I really don't want to sound like a fanboy or something but TERA is going to be for you OP its sandboxed styled themepark and i like it from what i read till now