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WH 40K big disappointment

After seeing the trailer for this game, I was so incredibly pumped.  I've been a fan of 40k since I was in middle school.  To finally see it come to the MMO scene is something i've been patiently waiting for for a long time.

I'm also someone who's played a lot of MMOs and got sucked into the WAR hype and was incredibly pissed to see the franchise turn into the order v destruction formula among many other insults to MMO gaming and the warhammer fanbase.

 

That said, I expect THQ to put together a really good game.  And we all know that it is a couple years out.  But I need to bring this to the attention of anyone willing to play this game and to see it succeed.

I stumbled upon their teaser site of the THQ website and saw something disturbing:

http://www.darkmillenniumonline.com/

After you click on the "Game Info" tab, it pops up an introduction story, and you'll see in the third paragraph:

"Side with the forces of Order, or the vile hosts of Destruction,"

This is clear indication they intend for this game to be a 2 faction shitty pvp failboat as seen in WAR.

Please, community, we have to let the developers know that this is not the way to treat the next generation of pvp games.  I think it has become increasingly apparent that the 2 faction model no longer works in this genre, and it's games like DaoC that have shown a 3+ faction pvp game is what the players want. 

Personally I'd rather see a more open faction style where no race sides together, except for certain scenarios as the IP allows, but that's a different story altogether.

 

Please tell me someone else agrees.

MMOs played: Horizons, Auto Assault, Ryzom, EVE, WAR, WoW, EQ2, LotRO, GW, DAoC, Aion, Requiem, Atlantica, DDO, Allods, Earth Eternal, Fallen Earth, Rift
Willing to try anything new

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Comments

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,383

    There are many people agreeing, but I think there were 5 or so threads as soon as the trailer showed up about this same subject.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759

    Theres already like a dozen threads about this on these forums, 1 of the threads also contains links to petitions and Facebook groups and stuff for Anti-2 Faction people, and one of the staff members here has also passed it along to the devs at E3 that that is one of the most important things we want info on, what sort fo PvP & Faction system theyre doing. You're far from the only one, and I think THQ have been made pretty aware of our concerns by now... hopefully they actually listen and take these things into consideration as they get further along.

  • fitzzerlefoufitzzerlefou Member UncommonPosts: 22

     

    I hope that there will be only 2 faction just to piss you guys!:D

    And 3 faction could be really lame if 70% is space marine.

  • CallsignVegaCallsignVega Member UncommonPosts: 286

    I agree, 2-faction system is fail.

  • ironhelixironhelix Member Posts: 448

    Originally posted by CallsignVega

    I agree, 2-faction system is fail.

    It's not just fail, it completely violates the lore that makes the entire franchise so successful. How Games Workshop is even allowing this is beyond me.

  • IchmenIchmen Member UncommonPosts: 1,228

    i plan to wait and see how it plays out... i dont agree with making 40k 2 sides.. 

     

    if anyone is a fluff buff would know.. imperials dont fight along side xeno races. the only ONLY Time they fight beside anyone is eldar, and thats simply do to a greater evil. as well as the lack of forces. 

     

    generally when an alien walks up to a spacemarine its shot in the face then walked over... same for gaurd.. unless its a weak gaurd commander soo this 2 side race war is going to be epiclly STUPID. 

    chaos doesnt work with anyone, they just convert everyone to chaos.. so you cant have tau or nids or necron working with chaos... (not only do those 3 not help anyone... well nid and necron pull a Borg ideal of eat/kill everything.. lmao) soo i really dont see how this game will work..

     

    if they stick to chaos/marine/ork its going to be FKING stupid.. while orks are good.. they dont work with any race that isnt ork...its not in their fluff... fantasy orks its easier to bend the fluff but 40k races its like bending concrete with a plastic spoon..

    but as i havent actually played the game or seen actual game play video (outside of trailer) ill wait and see just how good/bad this will be...

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  • twstdstrangetwstdstrange Member Posts: 474

    I believe, unless there's some sort of freaky miracle, that THQ isn't going to change a damn thing, unfortunately. I, too, tend to dislike the 2-faction system, of course, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to change it. Unless....

    Unless we mobilize! We must march to the steps of their building and DEMAND justice!

    We ride at dawn, my brothers....

    ... We ride at dawn.

     

     

    ... But seriously, in all likelihood it's just going to stay a 2-faction game.

  • rozenblade1rozenblade1 Member CommonPosts: 501

    Two factions just doesnt work with 40k...

    If they go two factions....I'll still try it...just because it's 40k, but...I'll be...........sad...

    And another thing that was dissappointing......the graphics...they're not...grim and morbid enough.

    I mean it's Warhammer 40k!!!!  the "Grim darkness of the far future"!!!!!!!!!!

    PLAYING: NOTHING!!!
    PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM

    WAITING FOR: Dust 514

  • Dionysus187Dionysus187 Member Posts: 302

    If you guys are going to do something about this better do it NOW. Earlier in the development cycle, the better.

     

    I don't think its out of the question if you make a big enough stink about it and keep on it. None of that petition horse shit either. Should make like a whole site dedicated to NOT having 2 factions in 40k, social network groups, all that shit. People posting up youtube videos or something pleading their case.

    image

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member Posts: 3,138

    In the Grim Darkness of the far future there is only...Order vs Destruction...

    Yeah, so, this isn't the Warhammer 40K I grew up with and after giving it a chance with WAR (despite all of WAR's other flaws) I'm not interested in doing it again. Give me a proper Warhammer universe where all factions are fighting each other (it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why Marines would be fighting IG and neither side actually has to be "tainted") and I'll sign up. Continue with this artificial alliances joke and I'll gladly pass on to one of the other MMOs launching soon(tm).

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • LotosSlayerLotosSlayer Member Posts: 247

    lol, why do so many people rave about 3 faction PvP? WAR is a bad game because it's just another shallow WoW clone quest grinder, 3 factions wouldn't have made a difference. What would be the big difference between 2 factions or 3? I don't see it. I guess I'd have to have played DaoC to know.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by LotosSlayer

    lol, why do so many people rave about 3 faction PvP? WAR is a bad game because it's just another shallow WoW clone quest grinder, 3 factions wouldn't have made a difference. What would be the big difference between 2 factions or 3? I don't see it. I guess I'd have to have played DaoC to know.

    It is more about 2 factions not fitting the game.  The same issue facing WH40K was an issue with WAR.  It is not really about there being 3, just that 2 is so wrong.  3, would be wrong as well if you honestly look at it.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • DameonkDameonk Member UncommonPosts: 1,914

    Originally posted by LotosSlayer

    I guess I'd have to have played DaoC to know.

     

    That's exactly true.  The #1 reason DAoC is considered one of the best PvP games in the genre was the fact that it had 3 factions.

    And to your other comment, I truly believe if WAR had 3 factions it would have done a lot better.

    "There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759

    Originally posted by LotosSlayer

    lol, why do so many people rave about 3 faction PvP? WAR is a bad game because it's just another shallow quest grinder, 3 factions wouldn't have made a difference. What would be the big difference between 2 factions or 3? I don't see it. I guess I'd have to have played DaoC to know.

     It's pretty simple... in WAR as well as many other  faction games, 1 side always dominated the hell out of the other due to, amongst other things like class imbalances, population imbalance. If 1 side becomes too populated, the other side can do nothing about it and they get overrun. This leads to 1 side also winning all the battles and ending up constantly getting the best rewards making the gap between the 2 sides even bigger. in WAR, the highest RR players were the players who were constantly winning due to having the bigger zerg, and onc ethey got ahead in RR it got harder and harder for the lower side to win anything. This resulted in a lot of people either switching to the dominant side because they were sick of losing 90% of the time, switching to a different server, or just plain quitting the game.

    A 3rd faction helps offset things. If 1 sde becomes too powerful, it will have to fight a 2 front war and deal with enemies from both sides giving the 2 weaker forces a better chance at leveling the playing field. In most cases, if 1 side becomes mor epowerful than the other 2, those other 2 both aim to take down the stronge rforce and become dominant themselves.... which also helps keep the wars/battles going. In 2 faction like WAR, many days ended in many players from 1 faction just giving up and saying "screw this, we're just feeding them more points. im gonna go do some PVE" because they were heavily outnumbered and outgeared. This resulted in people who were trying to PvP having a sense of PvP on their server/tier being "dead" pretty often because they happened to get on within a couple hours of 1 side giving up the battle. Nobody was out pvping anymore, and so those looking to join some pvp had nobody to do it with or against.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by kaiser3282


    Originally posted by LotosSlayer


    lol, why do so many people rave about 3 faction PvP? WAR is a bad game because it's just another shallow quest grinder, 3 factions wouldn't have made a difference. What would be the big difference between 2 factions or 3? I don't see it. I guess I'd have to have played DaoC to know.

     It's pretty simple... in WAR as well as many other  faction games, 1 side always dominated the hell out of the other due to, amongst other things like class imbalances, population imbalance. If 1 side becomes too populated, the other side can do nothing about it and they get overrun. This leads to 1 side also winning all the battles and ending up constantly getting the best rewards making the gap between the 2 sides even bigger. in WAR, the highest RR players were the players who were constantly winning due to having the bigger zerg, and onc ethey got ahead in RR it got harder and harder for the lower side to win anything. This resulted in a lot of people either switching to the dominant side because they were sick of losing 90% of the time, switching to a different server, or just plain quitting the game.

    A 3rd faction helps offset things. If 1 sde becomes too powerful, it will have to fight a 2 front war and deal with enemies from both sides giving the 2 weaker forces a better chance at leveling the playing field. In most cases, if 1 side becomes mor epowerful than the other 2, those other 2 both aim to take down the stronge rforce and become dominant themselves.... which also helps keep the wars/battles going. In 2 faction like WAR, many days ended in many players from 1 faction just giving up and saying "screw this, we're just feeding them more points. im gonna go do some PVE" because they were heavily outnumbered and outgeared.

    This is odd, because the standard post against 3 factions is because 2 will team up against 1 - leading to a scenario worse than 1 side being dominant in a 2 faction system.

    WH40K and WAR should be actual factional warfare - with how many ever factions they introduce into the game from the game lore; whether it is 2, 3, 4, 5, or even 10 or more.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • EkibiogamiEkibiogami Member UncommonPosts: 2,154

    I wouldent Mind a two faction system, aslong as it is diffrent from the normal.

    I think it would be fun to have Side factions bassed off of the World / Battle map your playing in. This would also fit the Fluff because there are lots of storys where one faction puts up with a diffrent faction for the chance to win... Normaly resulting in a blood bath between the two after words.

    But please no 2 factions Like in WAR where there is Lore breaking Sides made.

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
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  • JimmacJimmac Member UncommonPosts: 1,667

    Genuine question:

     

    How can you think that the number of factions can make or break an mmo when it comes to pvp? Daoc had the best pvp because of the gameplay mechanics, not because it had 3 realms. It would have been **almost** as fun to me even if it had only 2 realms. 

     

    I said almost because 3 factions did make it a little funner, but the bottom line is that the gameplay is where 90% of the awesomeness came from. Good gameplay + only 2 factions still equals a winning formula. 

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759

    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by kaiser3282


    Originally posted by LotosSlayer

    lol, why do so many people rave about 3 faction PvP? WAR is a bad game because it's just another shallow quest grinder, 3 factions wouldn't have made a difference. What would be the big difference between 2 factions or 3? I don't see it. I guess I'd have to have played DaoC to know.

     It's pretty simple... in WAR as well as many other  faction games, 1 side always dominated the hell out of the other due to, amongst other things like class imbalances, population imbalance. If 1 side becomes too populated, the other side can do nothing about it and they get overrun. This leads to 1 side also winning all the battles and ending up constantly getting the best rewards making the gap between the 2 sides even bigger. in WAR, the highest RR players were the players who were constantly winning due to having the bigger zerg, and onc ethey got ahead in RR it got harder and harder for the lower side to win anything. This resulted in a lot of people either switching to the dominant side because they were sick of losing 90% of the time, switching to a different server, or just plain quitting the game.

    A 3rd faction helps offset things. If 1 sde becomes too powerful, it will have to fight a 2 front war and deal with enemies from both sides giving the 2 weaker forces a better chance at leveling the playing field. In most cases, if 1 side becomes mor epowerful than the other 2, those other 2 both aim to take down the stronge rforce and become dominant themselves.... which also helps keep the wars/battles going. In 2 faction like WAR, many days ended in many players from 1 faction just giving up and saying "screw this, we're just feeding them more points. im gonna go do some PVE" because they were heavily outnumbered and outgeared.

    This is odd, because the standard post against 3 factions is because 2 will team up against 1 - leading to a scenario worse than 1 side being dominant in a 2 faction system.

    WH40K and WAR should be actual factional warfare - with how many ever factions they introduce into the game from the game lore; whether it is 2, 3, 4, 5, or even 10 or more.

     Didn't mean to limit to ONLY 3, meant it more as 3+, anything besides just 2, because with 2 one side always dominates. Though you are right in some cases about the 2 V 1, in most games there is little to nothing to be gained from 2 enemies repeatedly beating 1 weaker enemy, though it does happen sometimes its not the norm. The biggest gain would be for 2 weaker forces to take out the strongest, which is why that usually happens.

    I agree wholeheartedly with you, more than 3 would be better though, as it helps eliminate the problems of both 2 sided (1 side OP) and 3 sided (2 V 1)  warfare.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member Posts: 6,690

    WoW you guys really judge a game based of a trailer ? I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry.

    30
  • JimmacJimmac Member UncommonPosts: 1,667

    Originally posted by Dameonk 
     The #1 reason DAoC is considered one of the best PvP games in the genre was the fact that it had 3 factions.

     

     

    This isn't even close to being accurate. If daoc had 3 factions but shitty wow pvp mechanics and system it would have been considered a sucky game. If daoc had 3 factions but the guild wars pvp mechanics and system it would have been considered a pretty good game. 

     

    The number of factions isn't what makes playing a game awesome. The gameplay mechanics, and in cases of mmo pvp, the pvp mechanics are what matter. Having a 3rd faction can only make a great game more fun than it already is, but the 3rd faction isn't THE reason it is great. 

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759

    Originally posted by Jimmac

    Genuine question:
     
    How can you think that the number of factions can make or break an mmo when it comes to pvp? Daoc had the best pvp because of the gameplay mechanics, not because it had 3 realms. It would have been **almost** as fun to me even if it had only 2 realms. 
     
    I said almost because 3 factions did make it a little funner, but the bottom line is that the gameplay is where 90% of the awesomeness came from. Good gameplay + only 2 factions still equals a winning formula. 

     If DAOC had been 2 factions, it would have ha dthe same exact problem as WAR being that it was such a similar RvR system. 1 side becomes overpopulated, and wins constantly because of the bigger zerg. Eventually nobody wants to fight because theyre either a) bored with having no challenge to their fights, or b) tired of being nothing but cannon fodder and getting roflstomped by 3x their numbers.

    Granted, there are measures the devs can take to prevent this, but they usually dont bother. Hell, we're lucky most of the times if devs actually fix bugs or provide any other type of support in a timely matter. Asking them to put measures to keep 2 factions balanced into place seems to be asking a bit much.

  • JimmacJimmac Member UncommonPosts: 1,667

    They don't have similar rvr systems though. The gameplay mechanics of daoc are way different than in war. Daoc was very complex (edited for spelling). War was very simplistic. 

     

    I see your point on the zerg, and like I said, 2 factions would have been slightly less fun than 3, but it certainly wouldn't have been a breaking issue. Also and more importantly, 2 factions is much easier to balance than 3, so that would have helped to alleviate the zerg problem you mentioned. 

  • slashbeastslashbeast Member Posts: 533

    Originally posted by Jimmac


    Originally posted by Dameonk 
     The #1 reason DAoC is considered one of the best PvP games in the genre was the fact that it had 3 factions.

     

     

    This isn't even close to being accurate. If daoc had 3 factions but shitty wow pvp mechanics and system it would have been considered a sucky game. If daoc had 3 factions but the guild wars pvp mechanics and system it would have been considered a pretty good game. 

     

    The number of factions isn't what makes playing a game awesome. The gameplay mechanics, and in cases of mmo pvp, the pvp mechanics are what matter. Having a 3rd faction can only make a great game more fun than it already is, but the 3rd faction isn't THE reason it is great. 

     

    I have to agree with this. It seems very short sighted to assume that " 3 factions = win "

    It's just not that simple.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759

    Originally posted by slashbeast


    Originally posted by Jimmac


    Originally posted by Dameonk 
     The #1 reason DAoC is considered one of the best PvP games in the genre was the fact that it had 3 factions.

     

     

    This isn't even close to being accurate. If daoc had 3 factions but shitty wow pvp mechanics and system it would have been considered a sucky game. If daoc had 3 factions but the guild wars pvp mechanics and system it would have been considered a pretty good game. 

     

    The number of factions isn't what makes playing a game awesome. The gameplay mechanics, and in cases of mmo pvp, the pvp mechanics are what matter. Having a 3rd faction can only make a great game more fun than it already is, but the 3rd faction isn't THE reason it is great. 

     

    I have to agree with this. It seems very short sighted to assume that " 3 factions = win "

    It's just not that simple.

     We realize it's not that simple, it seems youre trying to over simplify the point many of us are making. The only way 2 faction system works properly in a heavily PvP focused game is if there are a lot of measures put in place to do things like force population balance, gear balance, level balance, etc between the 2 sides. Then yeah sure, 2 factions works, but only after forcing it to be that way.

    With AT LEAST 3 factions, even if 1 side becomes an underdog they hav ethe chance to work against a common enemy with 1 of the other factions. In 2 faction PvP, once you're screwed (underpowered) you just keep getting screwed worse and worse, unless by some miracle the other side either loses a bunch of players or they suddenly stop getting mor epowerful (level / gear / skills).

  • giggalgiggal Member UncommonPosts: 120

    good vs evil doesnt really work in the war40k universe the imperium can be as evil as chaos i hope the developers just dont go.

     

    well eldar human and tau they are all goodies and chaos, ork and dark eldar are evil. because its ever so subtle. warhammer worked with the good vs evil because man dwarf and elf were allies.

     

    anywho we shall see remember. two factions is easier to balance mythic never did manage to balance the three separate factions for daoc there was always a slight imbalance and the only way they made it work was eventually giving the unique abilitys from each realm to each other.

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