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Nvida GTX 465, 470, 480 totally confused

cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 334

Awhile back i was inquiring about a video card. Im running  two 8800 gt 512 in sli. I wanted to buy a 260 ot 275 at one time but everyone told me to wait till the 400's come out. Now they are out and they are telling me to wait till the 480 card goes down in price cause the 465 is no good.. Yeeeesh... Is the 465 better than my 2 8800 gt in sli?

 

need some help here. just seems to be a waiting cycle and next thing you know ill have my 8800 gt 512 in sli waiting for the new 5 million cards to come out LOL

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Comments

  • Krypt-JakeKrypt-Jake Member UncommonPosts: 36

    That''s how it always is with video cards.

  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 334

    is the 465 better than the 2 x  8800 gt in sli?

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,246

    I think the world was shocked with how bad the GTX480 turned out.  As a result ATI increased their prices instead of decreasing them seeing how their competition sucked.  So now its a waiting game again until the release of the HD6xxx series in Q3/Q4 2010.  Remember 1 card is better then 2 unless a game is designed to use more then 1 which none really are at this point in time.  Even getting a gain from SLI is more the exception then the rule.  However, adopting the GTX465 or GTX470 is not a wise decision at this point since they are not well designed.  You are better off with a similarly priced or slightly cheaper ATI card.

  • orioniteorionite Member UncommonPosts: 139

    Hey, I haven't found a benchmark that directly comparss the two cards, but check out this rought chart. It doesn't look like you'd be gaining that much.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-geforce-radeon,2646-7.html

    Read the article itself to get an idea what card gives you the best bang for your budget. For the same price, I'd recommed the Radeon 5850, as it beats the 465 in most benchmarks i've seen so far.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/3745/nvidias-geforce-gtx-465/10

  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 334

    ive never used ati before, will it be good in Age of Conan?

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,246

    Age of Conan as a benchmark leans towards ATI.

  • orioniteorionite Member UncommonPosts: 139

    Cichy, without knowing your full system, I think it's fair to say this:

    If you can not run AOC on maximum settings and very high resolution, then it will not be because of the Radeon 5850 (same goes probably for the 465gtx)

    As I couldn't find an AOC benchmark that uses the 5850, I can only give you these two:

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2725/6 <-- see the Radeon 4870x2 (xfire) at the very top of the chart

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433-6.html <-- 5850 is pretty close to the 4870x2

    If you have the money, and your system supports the card, I say go for it.

  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 334

    ASUS M4N82 DELUXE 980 SLI

    G.SKILL 4 GIGS 1066 (8500)

    AMD PHENOM 945

    RAZER BARACUDA SOUND CARD

    ANTEC TRUE POWER WHISPER 650 WATT

    PNY 8800 GT 512 X 2 IN SLI

     

    THIS IS WHAT IM RUNNING

  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 334

    Originally posted by orionite

    Cichy, without knowing your full system, I think it's fair to say this:

    If you can not run AOC on maximum settings and very high resolution, then it will not be because of the Radeon 5850 (same goes probably for the 465gtx)

    As I couldn't find an AOC benchmark that uses the 5850, I can only give you these two:

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2725/6 <-- see the Radeon 4870x2 (xfire) at the very top of the chart

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433-6.html <-- 5850 is pretty close to the 4870x2

    If you have the money, and your system supports the card, I say go for it.

     

    ASUS M4N82 DELUXE 980 SLI

    G.SKILL 4 GIGS 1066 (8500)

    AMD PHENOM 945

    RAZER BARACUDA SOUND CARD

    ANTEC TRUE POWER WHISPER 650 WATT

    PNY 8800 GT 512 X 2 IN SLI

     

    THIS IS WHAT IM RUNNING

  • MehveMehve Member Posts: 487

    If you want to stay on the Nvidia side of the fence, your best bet (right now) is probably to find a 470 at a good price, but you'll want to make sure you've got a case with good airflow. The 480 is a little over-priced these days, while the 465 is something of a lame duck. There's reports of other 400-series cards in the works, but there's too much rumour and speculation right now to say anything for certain.

    If you're vendor-agnostic, ATI's 5850/70 are both excellent options, depends on what kind of prices you can find.

    Just remember: You will NEVER get the latest and greatest at a good price - lowered prices just mean vendors need to clear their stuff out for something bigger and better to replace it. And the less powerful the card, the better it's price/performance ratio - the last little bit of performance always costs the most. Just the nature of the beast.

    A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
    That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170

    Apparenlty some of the 465's are actually 470's with a bios lock on them to operate as 465's, I think some people have been able to load up the 470 bios on a 465 to unlock the shaders and such. So a 465 could be a decent deal if it can be modded up to a 470 so you might want to google some info on that.

  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 334

    damn 465 or 470.... cant seem to make up my mind and i know nothing about ati...

    even after reviews on the ati's i still cant seem to convince myself to buy one.

  • stayontargetstayontarget Member RarePosts: 6,514

    For some reason Nvida loves to repackage there cards with different numbers.  Most of the time the only difference is the clock speeds.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Cleffy

    Age of Conan as a benchmark leans towards ATI.

    There have been a lot of complains from ATI owners about AoC and Far cry 2. AoC leans towards Nvidia, not ATI. 

    Back to SLI: MMOs generally doesn't support SLI. I had 2 8800 cards in AoC myself and the difference between that a single 8800 was rather pathetic. A single card will give you more there.

    SLI usually just give you 5-20% boost in performance, it is only a great idea if you already have the state of the art card and still have too much cash.

    Either buy the 470 card or ATI 5970, both those cards should give you a considerable boost in performance.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by noquarter

    Apparenlty some of the 465's are actually 470's with a bios lock on them to operate as 465's, I think some people have been able to load up the 470 bios on a 465 to unlock the shaders and such. So a 465 could be a decent deal if it can be modded up to a 470 so you might want to google some info on that.

    Duh. You didn't think Nvidia and ATI use a different processor for all their cards? It is cheaper to use the same, but sometimes they use second sorting for the cheapest cards.

    What usually differs is the cooling, so if you clock up and unlock things you should be very careful about temperature. They also put slower memories on low budget cards.

    I used to clock my old 8800 GTS cards as 8800 Ultra, increased the performance a bit. But don't do such things if you don't know what you are doing, it is easy to burn out a card. 

  • rivalzrivalz Member Posts: 9

    just get a 5850. the 400 series nvidia cards will cause house fires

  • Shatter30Shatter30 Member UncommonPosts: 487

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Cleffy

    Age of Conan as a benchmark leans towards ATI.

    There have been a lot of complains from ATI owners about AoC and Far cry 2. AoC leans towards Nvidia, not ATI. 

    Back to SLI: MMOs generally doesn't support SLI. I had 2 8800 cards in AoC myself and the difference between that a single 8800 was rather pathetic. A single card will give you more there.

    SLI usually just give you 5-20% boost in performance, it is only a great idea if you already have the state of the art card and still have too much cash.

    Either buy the 470 card or ATI 5970, both those cards should give you a considerable boost in performance.

     Most of them dont have to support it, Nvidia provides game support through driver updates.  Take for example Aion which I play in SLI, I can setup to run in SLI through the control panel and Im good to go.  SLI support was added 1 month after the game came by Nvidia and it works well even though Aion doesnt "support it".  I have played AOC, WAR, WOW, Aion and other MMO's in SLI and there is always a nice performance difference with SLI vs not. 

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by Loke666


    Originally posted by noquarter
    Apparenlty some of the 465's are actually 470's with a bios lock on them to operate as 465's, I think some people have been able to load up the 470 bios on a 465 to unlock the shaders and such. So a 465 could be a decent deal if it can be modded up to a 470 so you might want to google some info on that.

    Duh. You didn't think Nvidia and ATI use a different processor for all their cards? It is cheaper to use the same, but sometimes they use second sorting for the cheapest cards.
    What usually differs is the cooling, so if you clock up and unlock things you should be very careful about temperature. They also put slower memories on low budget cards.
    I used to clock my old 8800 GTS cards as 8800 Ultra, increased the performance a bit. But don't do such things if you don't know what you are doing, it is easy to burn out a card. 

    Uhm, no I think you misunderstood. I know GPU's are just iterative forms of the same chip. The 465 is a 470 with shader units locked off, which is something that is normally done at a hardware level with a laser to etch the die and cut the paths, and something you can't overcome by overclocking because the 465 and 470 are clocked the same (so any OC you apply to the 465 you could have applied to the 470).


    What is special here is some of the vendors are using *actual* GTX 470 chips, meaning the shader units haven't been lasered off and are perfectly stable, and then using a bios mod to shut them off. Which means those shader units can be turned back on unlike in a real GTX 465 where the shader units have been cut off with a laser by nVidia before distribution. Few products have been released like this, pretty much just the Radeon 9700/9700 pro and the Phenom II X3/X4 that I can think of.


    Apparently the 470 hasn't been selling well enough and the IHV's (Asus, MSI, etc) can't legally lower the price on them below Nvidia's MSRP, so they are soft modding them into 465's to sell off at lower price just to move inventory. This isn't the same as a 4890 being a faster clocked 4870 due to chip design optimizations, or a GTX 260 being a GTX 285 with shader units burned off by a laser in the die.

  • MehveMehve Member Posts: 487

    Don't be too quick to follow that 465-470 mod option. Unlike some other instances in the past, this one is looking like a high probability of resulting in a total brick. That may change in the future, if some ingenius modders manage to figure out more about it, but it's not exactly incentive for a purchase at this time.

    A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
    That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.

  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 334

    I made the plunge after 2 days of reviews, and decided that the evga 470 is what I finally decided to purchase.

    Most of the 11 reviews that i read had the the 470 beating the 5850 and up with the 5870. I paid 321.00 for it while the 5850 was about the same price give or take. The 5870 was more money.

     

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Member UncommonPosts: 1,518

    Only time to really upgrade your Video Cards is when a new Direct X version comes out. Otherwise its just usually the same as the last release just a newer name. Thats my advise and no real need to upgrade unless you just have to have every bell and whistle on and that usually will make u upgrade your CPU and RAM. If thats not your goal and ur happy playing at medium to med high settings there is no need for you to upgrade IMO.

  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 334

    unfortunately my 8800 gt 512's were sucking in Age of Conan. Med settings looked nasty to me. High settings looked fantastic but couldnt get over 12-20 fps with skipping...

     

    not a good card to have running that game.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,246

    Age of Conan does tend to favor ATI.

    You have to remember the GTX280 performs above the HD4870, yet they perform even in Age of Conan and the HD4870 performs better with 2 graphics cards.  The HD3870 also performed on par or better then the 8800GT in Age of Conan despite a 15% performance gap.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,179

    Originally posted by Cleffy

    Age of Conan does tend to favor ATI.

    You have to remember the GTX280 performs above the HD4870, yet they perform even in Age of Conan and the HD4870 performs better with 2 graphics cards.  The HD3870 also performed on par or better then the 8800GT in Age of Conan despite a 15% performance gap.

    That was two years ago though Cleff and based on that Article I went and got a 4870x2.

    Difference of two years of optimization and nvidia drivers has slightly put it ahead.

    For example with the DX10 client now with 2 years worth of fiddling, drivers, updates etc there has been several reports of a GTX 470 outing a 5870 same or near to PC specs from people - not always but it has been happening.

    I know from playing with guildies with similar PC's, standing in same spot someone on a 5870 would be getting sometimes 20FPS slower than my PC with a  GTX 480 in it everything else from CPU /clock/OS/Ram etc same. Only difference is I play on an SSD and load up faster.



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