Not a good thing to cut two features that players were excited about. Especially with the competition the game will have soon.
The information about that competition is not exactly "overwhelming" either.
A very slow combat paced PVE-only Asian game, a single player liniair adventure game with NPC talkies on line and a promised open world version of GW1 which was already postponed 3 times in the last 2 years, is even less impressive than what was promised back in 2007 and 2008..
Lol, talk about bias and so called "sensible".
The other MMO's arriving on the scene within the next 1, 2 years tops: Star Wars The Old Republic , Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy XIV, The Secret World, TERA, DC Universe, Rift, Blade & Soul - maybe even World of Darkness?
I can see how CATA could be way more interesting than all of those,
It stays far less impressive than what people talked about back in the beginning of 2007. A look into the future of Jan 2007 ...
Vanguard would be the "real" MMo: its designers expected around 5 million players worlwide... You read it: 5 M.
Then the "real" fantasy mmorpg would come: the game that would "rule" them all in the only real fantasy world of Middle Earth - LOTRO: YOU would walk in the lands of the books and films instructed by Gandalf and Co.
If not convinced about this: guess what? a complete new experience from the makers of Diablo ! Old Blizzard employees themselves that would delve into real MMo's with full 3D and awesome graphics: Hellgate London.
Not convinced yet? Read this : the Godfather and MAKER of Ultima Online himself, Lord British would make a complete new view of what an epic MMO would be like in 2008: Tabula Rasa, the name itself explained it all.
And the 3 biggest MMo's ever invented were not even expected till 2008 !!!/
Read NAKED women and adult manhood in the biggest ancient Lore America ever knew: Conan: it would finish off the fantasy worlds and explain how CITIES would be build and Fortresses be constructed by communities and attacked and defended by guildies having world PvP with thousands of players. All based on skills of course ! I still remember buying the CE box with shaky hands: the sheer adult content it would bring would be stupifying.
But still AoConan would pale against the biggest original War Lore ever created: Warhammer: WAR was going to be everywhere and played by 2, 3, 4 millions within 12 months of launch. WoW was nothing short for Waiting of Warhammer.
While all these would cripple WOW, the one and only final blow would surely come from .... GW2 back in ... 2007/2008.
. cut the history line right here.
I see. This time it will be different.
Of course.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Frankly I'm starting to get aggrevated with Blizz. I've been a loyal customer since "04, seen all the interations of WoW.
I was VERY much looking forward to rated BG's. But now they are just a larger version of arenas. Frankly I hate arenas. I know of a handful of ppl that actually LIKE arenas. Most ppl who particpate dont like it but they like the gear. Does that sound like fun? No.
What I cant understand is why rated BG's couldn't be rated on a individual basis not on a premade team basis. This coupled with the death of PotT, and now we're just getting more glyphs, wow, fun...
The guild stuff isn't so bad, it encourages ppl to stick with guilds and particpate in them. Thats a good thing.
But the general trend thats becoming apparent is not reassuring.
Yea this stuff JUST came out, and ppl will cry about overreacting, but Blizz should of thought about that before releasing this info.
I don't mind Path of Titans getting scrapped, I resub now and again to kill time, so since I'm not a major WoW player, lip surface revamps of the glyph / inscription skill is more than welcome and is easy for the lowest common denominator like myself to understand since I only dip in on occasion. I think the cuts were pretty much aimed for that kind of player in mind. Cataclysm gets an age of austerity era of cuts before its release, ironic.
No matter what posts, i admit i find your reasoning always entertaining.
You're seriously saying that you think a GW2, SW ToR, FFXIV, TSW, TERA and the others combined won't make a larger impact than CATA? That all those releases together are not better than AoC + WAR releases?
Rofl. I am SO going to quote you on this next year, even more, I'll make your statement a signature :-)
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It seems that what Blizzard, instead of making their content viable again, is giving the players two new races (Worgen and Goblins), a new profession (Archeology), some new dungeons and raids and precious little else. It seems to me that this is, at best, more of the same and, at worst, something that is worthy of patch content and not this long of a wait for their player base. Granted, they seem to have done a very good job in reinventing the contintents and making flight available there but the question that needs to be asked is whether or not it was worth the wait.
I was never in the camp of those who enjoyed the good old days of pre-Burning Crusade WoW, but I can see where some of these veterans are coming from in one particular way: Blizzard just gets more and more disappointing. I genuinely hope WoW players branch out into other games and leave this one behind; money is the only thing that Blizzard understands and large numbers of players leaving would be something to make them think. Then again, this means that players would have to stop rolling over and taking anything Blizzard gives them as though it were some sort of gift: we don't have to buy MMORPG hand-me-downs.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain. (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
No matter what posts, i admit i find your reasoning always entertaining.
You're seriously saying that you think a GW2, SW ToR, FFXIV, TSW, TERA and the others combined won't make a larger impact than CATA? That all those releases together are not better than AoC + WAR releases?
Rofl. I am SO going to quote you on this next year, even more, I'll make your statement a signature :-)
History tells you that apart from including AoC + WAR ...
Don't forget to include the epic MMo's of Vanguard, Lotro, Tabula Rasa, DDO, Hellgate London, Aion, Star Trek, Champions On Line either. GW2 was already on this legendary list in 2007 and postponed twice
Like I said this was the situation back in January 2007.
They would ALL be epic new MMO's with at least half of them multi million subs.
At that time (Jan 2007) WOW had 8.5 mullion subs ... Clearly going to be less than 1 Million subs by 2009.
Been there , seen it, apparently Mr Cyphers is new in town.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
History tells you that apart from including AoC + WAR ...
Don't forget to include the epic MMo's of Vanguard, Lotro, Tabula Rasa, DDO, Hellgate London, Aion, Star Trek, Champions On Line either. GW2 was already on this legendary list in 2007 and postponed twice
Like I said this was the situation back in January 2007.
They would ALL be epic new MMO's with at least half of them multi million subs.
At that time (Jan 2007) WOW had 8.5 mullion subs ... Clearly going to be less than 1 Million subs by 2009.
Been there , seen it, apparently Mr Cyphers is new in town.
Hmm, I think apparently Mr Bobbadude is looking at the world through Blizzard-rosy tinted glasses
I've been there too, seen it, and never bought much into the hype of any of those games, not so much as others seem to be. And that includes Blizzard and its games. Always been a HUGE fan of their games, but that doesn't mean that I close my eyes as some others do for the signs that things are changing or have changed. Blizzard seems to have changed a lot from as I knew them years ago, and not in a positive sense.
That I think that it's good to not run around with any hype as a lemming with those MMO's you mentioned doesn't also mean that I didn't enjoy these MMO games, seeing the good as well as the bad. I will also buy SC2 as well for the campaign, even if I think it'll not on the same level of brilliance that I think SC and Brood War were for its time.
But we'll see who will have it more right next year, your pro-everything-that's-Blizzard look or my so-called 'being new in town' : CATA, GW2, SW ToR, FFXIV, TERA, TSW,and the others will come up within 1-1.5 year, we'll see which ones will make the most impact.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Starting to feel like they are throwing WoW on the back burner and maybe focusing on their new MMO. But I have to say its about time the game has been around for nearly 6 years so its about time for a new contender to step in considering so many people are just waiting for something. All these MMOs get hyped like AOC,AION and WAR but none of those had the kind of money or following behind them like Warcraft/Blizzard has. The next big thing imo is gonna be TOR it has the fans/dev team/money behind it to be a hit. Not saying it will be the best thing ever but I think it will be the next big thing sub numbers wise.
They removed/changed three rather lame features from a pretty big expansion and you people are doing your best Chicken Little.
None of these changes is anywhere near as big a deal as some of you are making it our to be. guild leveling is gone? oh noes! The new profession is going from a must-have to an optional secondary profession? run for your lives, the sky is falling!! Path of the Titans was overkill, the devs probably realized this and decided to remove it, who cares?
If your purchase of the expansion was based soley on the addition of any of these three features then you need help. really, you do.
They removed/changed three rather lame features from a pretty big expansion and you people are doing your best Chicken Little.
None of these changes is anywhere near as big a deal as some of you are making it our to be. guild leveling is gone? oh noes! The new profession is going from a must-have to an optional secondary profession? run for your lives, the sky is falling!! Path of the Titans was overkill, the devs probably realized this and decided to remove it, who cares?
If your purchase of the expansion was based soley on the addition of any of these three features then you need help. really, you do.
it was those features combined that made me interested in the xpac. Now it seems more like a patch rather than an entire game. Right now it seems like all we are getting is WOTLK in Azeroth. I havent put much time into the WOTLK expansion because it was boring to me but I got excited for Cata and the more and more I hear the less and less I care.
The three features they changed and remove were pretty big parts of it.
Stuff EVERYONE does. Guilds, very few people are not in guilds. New profession that everyone could get. Path of the titans sounded really cool.
They are delaying other things too.
I wonder why they would change so much? Are they trying to have it ready for when they WANT to push it out? IE right before another big game is supposed to come out, to draw people who left till the xpac back.
I can't see myself coming back. Not saying the game isn't good, but mehhh.
The three features they changed and remove were pretty big parts of it.
Stuff EVERYONE does. Guilds, very few people are not in guilds. New profession that everyone could get. Path of the titans sounded really cool.
They are delaying other things too.
I wonder why they would change so much? Are they trying to have it ready for when they WANT to push it out? IE right before another big game is supposed to come out, to draw people who left till the xpac back.
I can't see myself coming back. Not saying the game isn't good, but mehhh.
I see it the other way around I feel they are pushing to release it early to avoid competition from games like TOR and GW2. Then just keep pushing content that should have been at launch to keep a steady flow of things to do.While there is alot of content it doesnt last long and most people at this point have no desire to really experience the leveling again since the game has been out for almost 6 years. I remember leveling during BC and there were still tons of players around now it just feels like everyone is sitting in a city running in circles. But if they release a newly revamped old dungeon every month or two it gives people something to do instead of waiting 5 months between content patches.
Originally posted by Muridan They removed/changed three rather lame features from a pretty big expansion and you people are doing your best Chicken Little. guild leveling is gone? oh noes!
Guild leveling is still in. What they are changing is Guild talents.
A Guild would have a talent pane similar to a player class and the talents included such things as more gold dropped for kills or Mass Resurrection. These however, werent removed either. When you guild levels it will automatically earn benefits.
So, yes, there is a LOT of Chicken Little Syndrome going on.
I see it the other way around I feel they are pushing to release it early to avoid competition from games like TOR and GW2. Then just keep pushing content that should have been at launch to keep a steady flow of things to do.While there is alot of content it doesnt last long and most people at this point have no desire to really experience the leveling again since the game has been out for almost 6 years. I remember leveling during BC and there were still tons of players around now it just feels like everyone is sitting in a city running in circles. But if they release a newly revamped old dungeon every month or two it gives people something to do instead of waiting 5 months between content patches.
TOR & GW2 are not going to be launching at the end of the year or even the first few months of next year.
Everytime people see trailers or ad's they think the game will be launching within 3 months....they never do. It's just the hype machine getting a jump wayyy before the game.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
GW2 was already on this legendary list in 2007 and postponed twice
In 2007 Anet announced that they where dropping the third campaign and replacing it with an expansion because they decided to build GW2 instead, that expansion released in August 2007. Anet have never given a release date for GW2, so when was it postponed once, let alone twice?
I didn't really see anything truly axed. Probably a lot of PotT goodies will just be worked into new trees. Having 2 pages of clickies to cycle through would seem redundant anyway.
Plus Guild perks are there, just solid ones for everyone. CoV/H did a good job with it, and just bringing that over to WoW isn't a bad move at all. A bonus to work for as a guild is a bonus worth having I'm sure.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I didn't really see anything truly axed. Probably a lot of PotT goodies will just be worked into new trees. Having 2 pages of clickies to cycle through would seem redundant anyway.
Plus Guild perks are there, just solid ones for everyone. CoV/H did a good job with it, and just bringing that over to WoW isn't a bad move at all. A bonus to work for as a guild is a bonus worth having I'm sure.
You know why it's misleading? Because it's a troll post, meant to invite trolls. This forum is a haven for it. Blizzard could be a lemonade stand owner and there would be threads here complaining there isn't enough lemons.
It is a little disappointing that they are reworking CoT but then again, I'd prefer they annouce this stuff now then wait until the day the expansion launches.
As far as all the other games getting ready to come out in the next year, I think it would be beyond pathetic if they could not get a substantial amount of subs and compete with a 6 year old game.
I love how people just don't read and then run there mouths. These 2 features are now just implemented in a different way.
Path of the titans is implemented in the form of medium glyphs and the guild talent tree is all that was removed. There are still guild talebts, u just get them in a different way at different levels. Read people read.
Previously Path of the titans looked like something exciting to play with in game. Saying path of the Titans will become medium glyphs sounds as exciting as a fart in an elevator. Even the current glyph system is pretty boring. Pick a few glpyhs and then their important fades into the background forever.
Guild leveling looks to be shaping up into exactly what I feared it would be. Just another xp grind to give meaningless bonuses.
Looking at a few bulletpoints on a features list the expansion looks good, but seeing how several things are turning out leaves me with the feeling that not much will change in the game. I didn't even like the talent previews that have leaked out so far.
Anyhow I will know more next week when I get to see it myself.
Agreed. The title of this post is troll bait. Blizzard hasn't axed MOST cataclysm features at all. The expansion is more than just the alternate advancement system which Blizzard admit wasn't suitable.
The changes to the guild talents makes sense if you read the original posts by the devs. Guilds who "talent spec" their guilds a certain way may encourage members of the guilds to quit. This is not a good thing to place in the hands of select individuals. AOC had a similar issue with its PVP guild flagging system, and they quickly removed it for the same reasons.
So now, from what I can make out, the Guild progression system is going to be more in line with "leveling up" and offering "perks" at particular milestones in that progression. Which makes sense. Guilds are formed around a social group of likeminded individuals. This system gives everyone the chance to help the guild out together. If anyone doesn't want to do that, then no one is forcing them to.
7 (i think) new level 80-85 zones (including an underwater zone) LESS.. try again
Rated battlegrounds that get players access to the same PvP gear as arenas Sorry, as I recall rated BGs only awarded you POINTS, but you still NEED a personal and team rating, which still ONLY feeds the top of the class.. everyone gets hosed
New 1-60 zonecity revamp they get tweaked in some areas.. I wouldn't cal it a revamp..
3000 new quests this remains to be seen if they are good.. or just 2,999 quest of doing the same thing as before..
2 new races plus starting zones and cities plus removal of old zones.. looks like a wash to me..
1 new battle ground - 10v10 CTF like we needed yet another bgs to disperse the population over to make queue lines EVEN longer.. ?
1 new PvP Zone (wintergrasp 2.0) Great idea, but something holds true for above.. There are only so many that PvP and spreading them out thinner and thinner isn't a great idea
2 New secondary professions Archeology and Reforging Arch like fishing will be ok I guess.. Reforging as a "profession"? I don't recall reading that..
New Race/Class combos - gnome priest anyone? Is this really something special? honestly
Flying in azeroth (something I DONT look forward to)
2 new raids If ya'll are into that.. for non raiders.. what do they get to do?
A bunch of dungeons (I don't think they have said how many) I believe the count was 5 (five) I wouldn't call that a bunch.. considering both BC and WOTLK gave you 12 each..
Guild leveling & some new guild features and managment which from what I read is going to be a drama fest.. I could write you a chapter how much BS is going to stem from that.. wait and see
Some old 1-60 dungeons get Heroic modes UM.. Only 2 and that was put on hold and delayed sometime later..
Changes to Hunter and warlock resource mechanics I call it a nerf
10man raids get the same quality of gear as 25mans (only 25man's get more) ????
Reworked raid lockout mechanics - not all of your 25man online to continue from last night? ok lets roll with 2x10man and each raid starts off where the 25man left off.
RealID and cross server chat (if ya into that) As I recall this feature currently requires you to use your real account name for your handle.... THIS is hardly a good feature.. and some parts are just plain invasion of privacy.. This is already a hot topic on the Beta boards and some 3rd party sites..
All new gear, items, mounts etc etc well duh..
Attunements are coming back - yay! Don't count on it.. LOL
I forget
New stat mastery system
Reworked talent tree's - more usful talents than required talants
Some states being removed or merged - streamlined
And some comments make by various blues that make me very happy, they want to reduce AOE in tanking and DPS, and bring the focus back to CC.
Additions to the glyph system with "medium" glyphs that change the effects of your abilities rather then just improve them as current glyphs do.
If this patch costs $40 then so be it You might want to learn to seperate what is the $40 expansion CONTENT and what will be the FREE global content.
Rydeson, I suggest you read the blue posts highlighted on mmo-champion.com because it seems that you are missing some information.
The Path of the Titans AA system was working in accordance with what Blizzard wanted, however they HAVE expressed the opinion that they do want to bring an AA system in, just only in the form that they would be happy with. So we may see it after the expansion.
A lot of the gameworld is changing and the quests with them. If I recall, a lot of the lower level quests have been redone to suit the changes in the landscape. Some are actually new too. Just how many of the 3000 new quests are low level content and which are in the expansion areas is unknown.
Also, there are changes coming in terms of 10 man and 25 man raiding. Essentially the items obtained will be the same in "potency" but 25 man raids will have more drops. The reason for the change is to facilitate the opportunity for raid leaders to "split" a 25 man raid locked instance into individual 10 man raids, thus allowing the 10 man raid to continue where the 25 man raid left off. I can certainly see the potential in this because these days its difficult getting 25 people online for a raid and PUG members are just a pain in the ass more often than not. Yes, I can remember the days whereby getting 40 people together for a raid was hard work, but times have changed.
There are a lot of changes coming in Cataclysm, the blue posts on mmo-champion do give justifications for them. Whether all that is coming in the expansion will suit everyone is a diffierent matter. But, make no mistake, even without the Path of the Titans AA system, the changes to the game are quite huge.
TOR & GW2 are not going to be launching at the end of the year or even the first few months of next year.
Everytime people see trailers or ad's they think the game will be launching within 3 months....they never do. It's just the hype machine getting a jump wayyy before the game.
As far as I know is the current theory that TOR will launch in April 2011. GW2 is still unknown but Spring or summer is likely. I don't think TOR really competes for the same players anyways, Wow is made for Blizzard fans while TOR is made for Bioware fans even if some people are both. GW2 is another matter, if it will take many players from Wow or not is hard to say.
But the beta of those games will probably come this autumn (the close one, mind you). I doubt that would affect Wows launch of Cataclysm in any way.
I guess Blizz cut out Path of the titans because they couldn't get it to work, sometimes an idea that seems great just doesn't work practically. Many games start on ideas that doesn't really work in the end even if it was kinda dumb to advertise it before they got it working.
The guild thing is probably either laziness or Activision being cheap.
I guess Blizz cut out Path of the titans because they couldn't get it to work, sometimes an idea that seems great just doesn't work practically. Many games start on ideas that doesn't really work in the end even if it was kinda dumb to advertise it before they got it working.
The guild thing is probably either laziness or Activision being cheap.
"Path of the Titans Removal
We still think it would be cool to add some kind of post-game progression to allow for player customization, but we would have to be very careful and do it right. Nobody wanted to see a feature that felt like it delivered on half its potential. Nobody wanted to be thinking about how we were going to "fix the flawed Paths system" in 5.0. If we can come up with a design we like, then we'll try again in the future.
A big part of game design is triage -- knowing when something is good enough, knowing when something can be good with just a little more work, and knowing when something is a lost cause... at least for now. There are very few WoW features that we kill outright. Most go into a design parking lot, and we get together every few months to review those features and consider what to work on next.
[...] Fortunately, one of the benefits of being Blizzard is we don't have to ship a product until we think it's ready. Our marketing department works with us on the game, but they understand that when the game is ready is ultimately up to the team. We didn't cut it because we ran out of time. We cut it because we didn't think the design we had was fun. At the high level we still like the idea, and if we can solve some of the problems we might bring it back in the future."
Guilds aren't a new feature for WoW, and we are really sensitive about imposing any kind of structure on them that might make you feel like you aren't supposed to stay with your current guildies any longer. To that end, there were flaws with guild talents that we didn't like.
Guilds are, for the most part, groups of friends. We don't want features to drive wedges between them. We don't want you to guild hop looking for the talents that suit you best; we want you to play (or in many cases keep playing) with your friends. With a talent tree, guilds would naturally have different talent trees, which creates a reason to bail or guild hop that doesn't exist today. If you didn't like the direction the guild was taking (for example, you were a PvP guy with a GM focused on raid-progression) you might feel like you should leave. That can happen today of course, but you can also stay in a PvE guild just because you like the members even if you don't participate in the same content because you're not losing out on inherent guild benefits.
Furthermore, we felt like the decision-making, for many guilds, would be up to a relatively few people, possibly as few as the guild master. Talent trees work for classes because the decision is up to you. We didn't want to create the risk of drama over choosing those talents or even not being consulted in choosing them.
Another advantage of the perks system is that it's easily expandable. If we want to add new levels and / or perks in later patches or expansions, we can, without having to rejuggle a talent tree"
Comments
It stays far less impressive than what people talked about back in the beginning of 2007. A look into the future of Jan 2007 ...
Vanguard would be the "real" MMo: its designers expected around 5 million players worlwide... You read it: 5 M.
Then the "real" fantasy mmorpg would come: the game that would "rule" them all in the only real fantasy world of Middle Earth - LOTRO: YOU would walk in the lands of the books and films instructed by Gandalf and Co.
If not convinced about this: guess what? a complete new experience from the makers of Diablo ! Old Blizzard employees themselves that would delve into real MMo's with full 3D and awesome graphics: Hellgate London.
Not convinced yet? Read this : the Godfather and MAKER of Ultima Online himself, Lord British would make a complete new view of what an epic MMO would be like in 2008: Tabula Rasa, the name itself explained it all.
And the 3 biggest MMo's ever invented were not even expected till 2008 !!!/
Read NAKED women and adult manhood in the biggest ancient Lore America ever knew: Conan: it would finish off the fantasy worlds and explain how CITIES would be build and Fortresses be constructed by communities and attacked and defended by guildies having world PvP with thousands of players. All based on skills of course ! I still remember buying the CE box with shaky hands: the sheer adult content it would bring would be stupifying.
But still AoConan would pale against the biggest original War Lore ever created: Warhammer: WAR was going to be everywhere and played by 2, 3, 4 millions within 12 months of launch. WoW was nothing short for Waiting of Warhammer.
While all these would cripple WOW, the one and only final blow would surely come from .... GW2 back in ... 2007/2008.
. cut the history line right here.
I see. This time it will be different.
Of course.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Frankly I'm starting to get aggrevated with Blizz. I've been a loyal customer since "04, seen all the interations of WoW.
I was VERY much looking forward to rated BG's. But now they are just a larger version of arenas. Frankly I hate arenas. I know of a handful of ppl that actually LIKE arenas. Most ppl who particpate dont like it but they like the gear. Does that sound like fun? No.
What I cant understand is why rated BG's couldn't be rated on a individual basis not on a premade team basis. This coupled with the death of PotT, and now we're just getting more glyphs, wow, fun...
The guild stuff isn't so bad, it encourages ppl to stick with guilds and particpate in them. Thats a good thing.
But the general trend thats becoming apparent is not reassuring.
Yea this stuff JUST came out, and ppl will cry about overreacting, but Blizz should of thought about that before releasing this info.
Signed - A disgruntled customer...
I don't mind Path of Titans getting scrapped, I resub now and again to kill time, so since I'm not a major WoW player, lip surface revamps of the glyph / inscription skill is more than welcome and is easy for the lowest common denominator like myself to understand since I only dip in on occasion. I think the cuts were pretty much aimed for that kind of player in mind. Cataclysm gets an age of austerity era of cuts before its release, ironic.
No matter what posts, i admit i find your reasoning always entertaining.
You're seriously saying that you think a GW2, SW ToR, FFXIV, TSW, TERA and the others combined won't make a larger impact than CATA? That all those releases together are not better than AoC + WAR releases?
Rofl. I am SO going to quote you on this next year, even more, I'll make your statement a signature :-)
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It seems that what Blizzard, instead of making their content viable again, is giving the players two new races (Worgen and Goblins), a new profession (Archeology), some new dungeons and raids and precious little else. It seems to me that this is, at best, more of the same and, at worst, something that is worthy of patch content and not this long of a wait for their player base. Granted, they seem to have done a very good job in reinventing the contintents and making flight available there but the question that needs to be asked is whether or not it was worth the wait.
I was never in the camp of those who enjoyed the good old days of pre-Burning Crusade WoW, but I can see where some of these veterans are coming from in one particular way: Blizzard just gets more and more disappointing. I genuinely hope WoW players branch out into other games and leave this one behind; money is the only thing that Blizzard understands and large numbers of players leaving would be something to make them think. Then again, this means that players would have to stop rolling over and taking anything Blizzard gives them as though it were some sort of gift: we don't have to buy MMORPG hand-me-downs.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
History tells you that apart from including AoC + WAR ...
Don't forget to include the epic MMo's of Vanguard, Lotro, Tabula Rasa, DDO, Hellgate London, Aion, Star Trek, Champions On Line either. GW2 was already on this legendary list in 2007 and postponed twice
Like I said this was the situation back in January 2007.
They would ALL be epic new MMO's with at least half of them multi million subs.
At that time (Jan 2007) WOW had 8.5 mullion subs ... Clearly going to be less than 1 Million subs by 2009.
Been there , seen it, apparently Mr Cyphers is new in town.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Hmm, I think apparently Mr Bobbadude is looking at the world through Blizzard-rosy tinted glasses
I've been there too, seen it, and never bought much into the hype of any of those games, not so much as others seem to be. And that includes Blizzard and its games. Always been a HUGE fan of their games, but that doesn't mean that I close my eyes as some others do for the signs that things are changing or have changed. Blizzard seems to have changed a lot from as I knew them years ago, and not in a positive sense.
That I think that it's good to not run around with any hype as a lemming with those MMO's you mentioned doesn't also mean that I didn't enjoy these MMO games, seeing the good as well as the bad. I will also buy SC2 as well for the campaign, even if I think it'll not on the same level of brilliance that I think SC and Brood War were for its time.
But we'll see who will have it more right next year, your pro-everything-that's-Blizzard look or my so-called 'being new in town'
: CATA, GW2, SW ToR, FFXIV, TERA, TSW,and the others will come up within 1-1.5 year, we'll see which ones will make the most impact.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I should thank Blizzard.
They saved my fifty bucks in destroying/removing the only three features I was looking forward to.
Guild leveling, Titans and the new prof.
Grats.
Starting to feel like they are throwing WoW on the back burner and maybe focusing on their new MMO. But I have to say its about time the game has been around for nearly 6 years so its about time for a new contender to step in considering so many people are just waiting for something. All these MMOs get hyped like AOC,AION and WAR but none of those had the kind of money or following behind them like Warcraft/Blizzard has. The next big thing imo is gonna be TOR it has the fans/dev team/money behind it to be a hit. Not saying it will be the best thing ever but I think it will be the next big thing sub numbers wise.
They removed/changed three rather lame features from a pretty big expansion and you people are doing your best Chicken Little.
None of these changes is anywhere near as big a deal as some of you are making it our to be. guild leveling is gone? oh noes! The new profession is going from a must-have to an optional secondary profession? run for your lives, the sky is falling!! Path of the Titans was overkill, the devs probably realized this and decided to remove it, who cares?
If your purchase of the expansion was based soley on the addition of any of these three features then you need help. really, you do.
it was those features combined that made me interested in the xpac. Now it seems more like a patch rather than an entire game. Right now it seems like all we are getting is WOTLK in Azeroth. I havent put much time into the WOTLK expansion because it was boring to me but I got excited for Cata and the more and more I hear the less and less I care.
The three features they changed and remove were pretty big parts of it.
Stuff EVERYONE does. Guilds, very few people are not in guilds. New profession that everyone could get. Path of the titans sounded really cool.
They are delaying other things too.
I wonder why they would change so much? Are they trying to have it ready for when they WANT to push it out? IE right before another big game is supposed to come out, to draw people who left till the xpac back.
I can't see myself coming back. Not saying the game isn't good, but mehhh.
I see it the other way around I feel they are pushing to release it early to avoid competition from games like TOR and GW2. Then just keep pushing content that should have been at launch to keep a steady flow of things to do.While there is alot of content it doesnt last long and most people at this point have no desire to really experience the leveling again since the game has been out for almost 6 years. I remember leveling during BC and there were still tons of players around now it just feels like everyone is sitting in a city running in circles. But if they release a newly revamped old dungeon every month or two it gives people something to do instead of waiting 5 months between content patches.
A Guild would have a talent pane similar to a player class and the talents included such things as more gold dropped for kills or Mass Resurrection.
These however, werent removed either. When you guild levels it will automatically earn benefits.
So, yes, there is a LOT of Chicken Little Syndrome going on.
TOR & GW2 are not going to be launching at the end of the year or even the first few months of next year.
Everytime people see trailers or ad's they think the game will be launching within 3 months....they never do. It's just the hype machine getting a jump wayyy before the game.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Only Titans has been scraped, guild leveling and the new prof are still in.
In 2007 Anet announced that they where dropping the third campaign and replacing it with an expansion because they decided to build GW2 instead, that expansion released in August 2007. Anet have never given a release date for GW2, so when was it postponed once, let alone twice?
I think the title is pretty misleading.
I didn't really see anything truly axed. Probably a lot of PotT goodies will just be worked into new trees. Having 2 pages of clickies to cycle through would seem redundant anyway.
Plus Guild perks are there, just solid ones for everyone. CoV/H did a good job with it, and just bringing that over to WoW isn't a bad move at all. A bonus to work for as a guild is a bonus worth having I'm sure.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
You know why it's misleading? Because it's a troll post, meant to invite trolls. This forum is a haven for it. Blizzard could be a lemonade stand owner and there would be threads here complaining there isn't enough lemons.
It is a little disappointing that they are reworking CoT but then again, I'd prefer they annouce this stuff now then wait until the day the expansion launches.
As far as all the other games getting ready to come out in the next year, I think it would be beyond pathetic if they could not get a substantial amount of subs and compete with a 6 year old game.
I'll say it again, a 6 year old game
Previously Path of the titans looked like something exciting to play with in game. Saying path of the Titans will become medium glyphs sounds as exciting as a fart in an elevator. Even the current glyph system is pretty boring. Pick a few glpyhs and then their important fades into the background forever.
Guild leveling looks to be shaping up into exactly what I feared it would be. Just another xp grind to give meaningless bonuses.
Looking at a few bulletpoints on a features list the expansion looks good, but seeing how several things are turning out leaves me with the feeling that not much will change in the game. I didn't even like the talent previews that have leaked out so far.
Anyhow I will know more next week when I get to see it myself.
Agreed. The title of this post is troll bait. Blizzard hasn't axed MOST cataclysm features at all. The expansion is more than just the alternate advancement system which Blizzard admit wasn't suitable.
The changes to the guild talents makes sense if you read the original posts by the devs. Guilds who "talent spec" their guilds a certain way may encourage members of the guilds to quit. This is not a good thing to place in the hands of select individuals. AOC had a similar issue with its PVP guild flagging system, and they quickly removed it for the same reasons.
So now, from what I can make out, the Guild progression system is going to be more in line with "leveling up" and offering "perks" at particular milestones in that progression. Which makes sense. Guilds are formed around a social group of likeminded individuals. This system gives everyone the chance to help the guild out together. If anyone doesn't want to do that, then no one is forcing them to.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Rydeson, I suggest you read the blue posts highlighted on mmo-champion.com because it seems that you are missing some information.
The Path of the Titans AA system was working in accordance with what Blizzard wanted, however they HAVE expressed the opinion that they do want to bring an AA system in, just only in the form that they would be happy with. So we may see it after the expansion.
A lot of the gameworld is changing and the quests with them. If I recall, a lot of the lower level quests have been redone to suit the changes in the landscape. Some are actually new too. Just how many of the 3000 new quests are low level content and which are in the expansion areas is unknown.
Also, there are changes coming in terms of 10 man and 25 man raiding. Essentially the items obtained will be the same in "potency" but 25 man raids will have more drops. The reason for the change is to facilitate the opportunity for raid leaders to "split" a 25 man raid locked instance into individual 10 man raids, thus allowing the 10 man raid to continue where the 25 man raid left off. I can certainly see the potential in this because these days its difficult getting 25 people online for a raid and PUG members are just a pain in the ass more often than not. Yes, I can remember the days whereby getting 40 people together for a raid was hard work, but times have changed.
There are a lot of changes coming in Cataclysm, the blue posts on mmo-champion do give justifications for them. Whether all that is coming in the expansion will suit everyone is a diffierent matter. But, make no mistake, even without the Path of the Titans AA system, the changes to the game are quite huge.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
As far as I know is the current theory that TOR will launch in April 2011. GW2 is still unknown but Spring or summer is likely. I don't think TOR really competes for the same players anyways, Wow is made for Blizzard fans while TOR is made for Bioware fans even if some people are both. GW2 is another matter, if it will take many players from Wow or not is hard to say.
But the beta of those games will probably come this autumn (the close one, mind you). I doubt that would affect Wows launch of Cataclysm in any way.
I guess Blizz cut out Path of the titans because they couldn't get it to work, sometimes an idea that seems great just doesn't work practically. Many games start on ideas that doesn't really work in the end even if it was kinda dumb to advertise it before they got it working.
The guild thing is probably either laziness or Activision being cheap.
"Path of the Titans Removal
We still think it would be cool to add some kind of post-game progression to allow for player customization, but we would have to be very careful and do it right. Nobody wanted to see a feature that felt like it delivered on half its potential. Nobody wanted to be thinking about how we were going to "fix the flawed Paths system" in 5.0. If we can come up with a design we like, then we'll try again in the future.
A big part of game design is triage -- knowing when something is good enough, knowing when something can be good with just a little more work, and knowing when something is a lost cause... at least for now. There are very few WoW features that we kill outright. Most go into a design parking lot, and we get together every few months to review those features and consider what to work on next.
[...] Fortunately, one of the benefits of being Blizzard is we don't have to ship a product until we think it's ready. Our marketing department works with us on the game, but they understand that when the game is ready is ultimately up to the team. We didn't cut it because we ran out of time. We cut it because we didn't think the design we had was fun. At the high level we still like the idea, and if we can solve some of the problems we might bring it back in the future."
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25399821080/you-can-t-back-out-on-path-of-the-titan-s-now/
"Guild Talents removal
Guilds aren't a new feature for WoW, and we are really sensitive about imposing any kind of structure on them that might make you feel like you aren't supposed to stay with your current guildies any longer. To that end, there were flaws with guild talents that we didn't like.
Guilds are, for the most part, groups of friends. We don't want features to drive wedges between them. We don't want you to guild hop looking for the talents that suit you best; we want you to play (or in many cases keep playing) with your friends. With a talent tree, guilds would naturally have different talent trees, which creates a reason to bail or guild hop that doesn't exist today. If you didn't like the direction the guild was taking (for example, you were a PvP guy with a GM focused on raid-progression) you might feel like you should leave. That can happen today of course, but you can also stay in a PvE guild just because you like the members even if you don't participate in the same content because you're not losing out on inherent guild benefits.
Furthermore, we felt like the decision-making, for many guilds, would be up to a relatively few people, possibly as few as the guild master. Talent trees work for classes because the decision is up to you. We didn't want to create the risk of drama over choosing those talents or even not being consulted in choosing them.
Another advantage of the perks system is that it's easily expandable. If we want to add new levels and / or perks in later patches or expansions, we can, without having to rejuggle a talent tree"
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25399601135/please-rethink-the-guild-tree-and-path-removl/
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's