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This site is filled with hate, and no one stops them

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  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by MikeB

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Dear Mr. Stradden, MMORPG team



    I am here for many years, and for a long time I had enjoyed being here. I took some absence for a time, trying to get some distance after finding my positions and argumentations confronted with personal attacks and the most low mockery ("get a job and move out of your basement") on and on, and I am just tired of it. I understand a moderator can not see and control everything. But the way people are treated here, not just me but others as well... it has just evolved in a way I don't want to face anymore. I know a popular website like yours probably won't care, but it is my necessary act to say it nontheless. This site has too much become a place of hate and attacks.



    As such, I can not tolerate to spent time in a place where I am not protected from personal attacks. I am sure those who always just wanted to silence me will rejoice in what shallow victory they can claim. May it be so. I do not make myself further the object of people's hate, so I am taking my leave. Permanently.

    As to you who only had hate and mean words for me: may you find what you gave to others. You are so full of hate and anger, I pity the life you lead. It is a sad way of dealing with other human beings, and life is too precious, too short to waste it with being bad to another just because you disagree with him. Maybe one day you think about it what you doing to others.

    Elikal

    Actually, we do care. A lot. That is why we have stepped up moderation significantly since the beginning of this year, and while the forums are still not perfect, no forums ever are. If you are being harassed, attacked, etc. by another user the best thing to do is to simply report them and not dignify them with a response. Our moderators patrol the forums constantly and review reports all the time. If you find that your report was not handled in a satisfactory manner you can feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] or [email protected] so I can look into the matter personally.

    I disagree with those of you who are posting to say we are not doing enough, it's easier to notice the things we don't do than the things we do, especially when we do our jobs right. Our moderators work very hard day in and day out, and it is often a thankless job. While errors do occur, we have no issues admitting a mistake when one is made and correcting it.

    Leaving the forums is certainly your choice, however, we encourage you to be part of the solution and help us identify posts/users that are in violation of our Rules of Conduct so we can do better at our job and provide you with forums that are conducive to constructive and intelligent discourse. That is our ultimate goal here.

    I hope you'll stick around!

    Thanks for answering. I see you have indeed deleted hate posts against me. (Still warning me for just fighting back kinda was meh, but well.) I just don't feel well with reporting people. I always feel a bit like "neener neener, I tell my parents you wait and see".

    Over the years I grew thin skinned. It just gets to me when people say mean things. I only said mean things rarely, and those times, even tho decades ago, still haunt me. So I don't understand how some seem to just feel good while being mean. What you say can haunt another person his ENTIRE LIFE. A false word at the false time can ruin a person's life! We never know who sits at the other side of the desk!

     

    Maybe I should use ignore lists. I always avoided it so far. *sigh*

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • MikeBMikeB Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,540

    Originally posted by brostyn

    Simple strategies to ignore the true trolls and flamers:

    1) If you're personally attacked report the user and block the user. You'll never again see their post unless someone quotes it. It may be deleted it may not. IMO, this helps purge of the site of people who only want to insult others. They get enough warnings and deletions they will leave, or mend their ways. Don't respond to the trolls or flamers.

    2) Grow a thick skin. Some people think that when others disagree with them they are being personally attacked. Don't be this guy/gal.

    3) Realize this is a forum where people are going to have opposing viewpoints. Probably has more to do with thick skin. People are going to like things that you don't. You can't control that. Say your piece withtout retaliating with personal attacks.

    4) There is no reason to write a 300 word response to someone else's response. I hate when people do this, and we end up with quote box the size of a 10 story building.

    5) Again, don't respond to flamers/trolls. There is nothing worthwhile in it. Realize there are people here whose response to anything they disagree with is "UR A IDIUT! UR SO MORON!". Realize you're the smarter person. Don't jump in the mud after them. Don't respond to them. What good would it do to argue they're wrong? They obviously aren't that intelligent, so don't bother.

    Absolutely excellent advice. QFT. Seriously.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • VinterkrigVinterkrig Member RarePosts: 1,892

    Its true, the rest of the internet is fluffy, pink, with rainbows and flowers, its rather magical (like an iPad) , but this is the dark evil castle on the top of the hill where the mad scientist does evil experiments.....

     

    i mean look at the net all around you, filth and awful crap make up just about 80% of the internet, enjoy it for what it is, or run and hide imo ;)

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson Member UncommonPosts: 1,919

    When I think it over, I believe that a lot of the issue stems from people being so passionate about what games they enjoy.  A lot of users on this site invest significant time into a game and take pride in what they have accomplished in what they choose to play.  It becomes very hard on that person when a user who doesn't share their passion for the same game writes it off with a single line, or proclaims it to be awful with no reasons backing up such statements.

    I don't think it's a bad thing that people are so passionate.  I do think it's often not expressed in the best ways though.

    The forums are quite active which isn't bad either.  It'd be nice if it was all constructive, but that's a bit of an ideal rather than a reality.  The activiy in the forums though can be quite informative and interesting at times too.

    MMORPG.com will remain my one stop shop for news and information on massive online games.  I appreciate the articles, previews, reviews, stories, and so on that the writers share with us.  My main wish is to have even more of those articles!

    Keep up the good work.

  • MikeBMikeB Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,540

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Originally posted by MikeB


    Originally posted by Elikal

    Dear Mr. Stradden, MMORPG team



    I am here for many years, and for a long time I had enjoyed being here. I took some absence for a time, trying to get some distance after finding my positions and argumentations confronted with personal attacks and the most low mockery ("get a job and move out of your basement") on and on, and I am just tired of it. I understand a moderator can not see and control everything. But the way people are treated here, not just me but others as well... it has just evolved in a way I don't want to face anymore. I know a popular website like yours probably won't care, but it is my necessary act to say it nontheless. This site has too much become a place of hate and attacks.



    As such, I can not tolerate to spent time in a place where I am not protected from personal attacks. I am sure those who always just wanted to silence me will rejoice in what shallow victory they can claim. May it be so. I do not make myself further the object of people's hate, so I am taking my leave. Permanently.

    As to you who only had hate and mean words for me: may you find what you gave to others. You are so full of hate and anger, I pity the life you lead. It is a sad way of dealing with other human beings, and life is too precious, too short to waste it with being bad to another just because you disagree with him. Maybe one day you think about it what you doing to others.

    Elikal

    Actually, we do care. A lot. That is why we have stepped up moderation significantly since the beginning of this year, and while the forums are still not perfect, no forums ever are. If you are being harassed, attacked, etc. by another user the best thing to do is to simply report them and not dignify them with a response. Our moderators patrol the forums constantly and review reports all the time. If you find that your report was not handled in a satisfactory manner you can feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] or [email protected] so I can look into the matter personally.

    I disagree with those of you who are posting to say we are not doing enough, it's easier to notice the things we don't do than the things we do, especially when we do our jobs right. Our moderators work very hard day in and day out, and it is often a thankless job. While errors do occur, we have no issues admitting a mistake when one is made and correcting it.

    Leaving the forums is certainly your choice, however, we encourage you to be part of the solution and help us identify posts/users that are in violation of our Rules of Conduct so we can do better at our job and provide you with forums that are conducive to constructive and intelligent discourse. That is our ultimate goal here.

    I hope you'll stick around!

    Thanks for answering. I see you have indeed deleted hate posts against me. (Still warning me for just fighting back kinda was meh, but well.) I just don't feel well with reporting people. I always feel a bit like "neener neener, I tell my parents you wait and see".

    Over the years I grew thin skinned. It just gets to me when people say mean things. I only said mean things rarely, and those times, even tho decades ago, still haunt me. So I don't understand how some seem to just feel good while being mean. What you say can haunt another person his ENTIRE LIFE. A false word at the false time can ruin a person's life! We never know who sits at the other side of the desk!

     

    Maybe I should use ignore lists. I always avoided it so far. *sigh*

    Let me explain why we ask you to report instead of retaliate so you can understand where we are coming from. First of all, people who are genuinely trolling are baiting you to respond in a retaliatory manner -- that is their prime goal, they thrive on it. Why? Because if you do, you get into a fight with them, and when you get into a fight with them you can turn a perfectly great discussion into a noisy back and forth between two users causing a disruption on the forum and ruining an otherwise good thread. This is why we don't want users taking things into their own hands, and why we issue infractions against users who do. If you received such an infraction and simply did not understand why we do this, I am more than willing to work with you if you get in touch with me privately.

    If you truly feel bad about reporting another user you can simply put them on ignore as the always awesome Teala suggested in an earlier post above. However, you shouldn't feel bad about reporting a user, as it simply alerts our moderator to review something. We aren't going to give someone a warning just because you think they are trolling, our moderators will check it out and evaluate it  (as well as the rest of the thread) against our Rules of Conduct. Think of it more like calling the fire dept because you smell smoke (or see a fire) and less like you're tattling on a classmate to your teacher.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    This is the main reasion i stop comming here.

    The forums is not for dicussions, its just about one upping the previous poster. I don't even try to have a dicussion here anymore. It won't happen anyway. Its a cesspit. Seak out another site, they will be more fruitfull. The administration here Fans the flames so they can get viewships. Its like the FOX news of MMORPG sites.

     






    Originally posted by MikeB

    **SNIP**



    I will get a another warning for this. But this is BS and you know it. You guys have fostered this site, threw inaction, or because this is what you want. The site has been going downhill for YEARS now, when it was one the best place to talk with people with like interests.

    You really think you are going to change the tone YOU SET at this stage of the game? This site is where people come to troll or be retards. The is zero value in this site other than news items. The forums need an enama. And its current state is directly tied to the community you have fostered. It hasn't been decent sence 03'

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,358

    Elikal - I agree that the mods for MMORPG.com allow way too much hate and even tougher rules should be enforced but its hard to take you seriously on this matter.

    After reading your recent hate filled rant about Free to play MMOs in The Pub that is clearly looking to keep the hate going for Free to play MMOs going. You could have posted your views in one of the many other hate filled Free to pplay topics but you just had to make your own.

    If you want to end hate then I suggest you look inwards first.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770

    There may have been a huge decline since the site has opened but I can honestly say has improved somewhat since the begining of this year with more moderation. But then again, I've also gotten increasingly fed up with so much trash posts that I will block them if I'm put off with it in the slightest. So now I skim through threads with several of blocked posters, who's opinion I don't respect, then don't bother to contribute to pointless discussions.

     

    image

  • MasterWanMasterWan Member Posts: 37

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Dear Mr. Stradden, MMORPG team





    I am here for many years, and for a long time I had enjoyed being here. I took some absence for a time, trying to get some distance after finding my positions and argumentations confronted with personal attacks and the most low mockery ("get a job and move out of your basement") on and on, and I am just tired of it. I understand a moderator can not see and control everything. But the way people are treated here, not just me but others as well... it has just evolved in a way I don't want to face anymore. I know a popular website like yours probably won't care, but it is my necessary act to say it nontheless. This site has too much become a place of hate and attacks.



    As such, I can not tolerate to spent time in a place where I am not protected from personal attacks. I am sure those who always just wanted to silence me will rejoice in what shallow victory they can claim. May it be so. I do not make myself further the object of people's hate, so I am taking my leave. Permanently.

     

    As to you who only had hate and mean words for me: may you find what you gave to others. You are so full of hate and anger, I pity the life you lead. It is a sad way of dealing with other human beings, and life is too precious, too short to waste it with being bad to another just because you disagree with him. Maybe one day you think about it what you doing to others.

     

    Elikal

     I know, I agree.  /activly looking for a different MMO website.

  • MikeBMikeB Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,540

    The above back and forth illustrates what I was talking about with regards to retaliation. Of course it won't be here much longer so you guys probably won't even know what I'm talking about! :)

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    Originally posted by MikeB

    The above back and forth illustrates what I was talking about with regards to retaliation. Of course it won't be here much longer so you guys probably won't even know what I'm talking about! :)

    I will, and its mostlikly the fastist I even seen moderation, or it be justafied in its duty.

    My prase to you sir. You should stomp down on such of topic posting more oftion.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • MikeBMikeB Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,540

    Seriously guys, trolling and attacking each other in a thread I am actively paying attention to? Come on.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    You should ask them to stop.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Elikal - I agree that the mods for MMORPG.com allow way too much hate and even tougher rules should be enforced but its hard to take you seriously on this matter.

    After reading your recent hate filled rant about Free to play MMOs in The Pub that is clearly looking to keep the hate going for Free to play MMOs going. You could have posted your views in one of the many other hate filled Free to pplay topics but you just had to make your own.

    If you want to end hate then I suggest you look inwards first.

    Yes. I hate F2P. I don't hate a person. And if anyone would have told me "I disagree because of XYZ", I would even have enjoyed the conversation. Tough discussion never bother me.

    But personal attacks... thats a different beast altogether.

    When someone says something mean to me... it gets under my skin. Some things people said to me 30 years ago haunt me through all my life. Some people just don't know what they DO with their words! They think it is all just funny chit chat, and some words and the wrong time can ruin the LIFE of poople! Some things are NOT funny. The worst, meanest thing I ever said, was to a fellow in a evening course, and he was slow in reading, and I said to him out of impatience "you can't get it, since you didn't study". It was a terrible thing to say, and it was 20 years ago but it haunts me ever so often; I always think, it may plague him the rest of his life! I wonder what damage I did! Maybe I caused some trauma that will last all his life! And often I wonder how few people seem to consider that!

    We say things like "xyz your mom" or whatever we think is funny. Do we EVER really think how much some words can do damage? How some saying can ruin a person and be a trauma all his life? People just say ugly things as if it were a sports! Maybe some part of humanity has hearts of rock, I don't know, but some certainly dont have. I am not a Christian, but did the "love thy neighbor as thyself" just fall on deaf ears?

    Argue tough in the matter, yes. But personal attacks and mockery can be sharp weapons, more severe then some understand. But alas, it is something our society does not really teach.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • DLangleyDLangley Member Posts: 1,407

    This thread will be locked if the personal attacks do not cease. Please discuss the matter in a way which is constructive and that adds to the overall conversation rather than putting down another user.

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

    As food for thought.

    I read this thread because I liked the premise, it too is a feeling I have had about the site.

    Then I got to the point where there had obviously been some trolling and hating, but it had been removed by the moderator watching the thread.

    The supreme irony? While my initial thought was 'good for the moderator' underneath that I have a driving curiosity about what the 'dish' was.........

    Sometimes we need authorities to regulate us due to our own shortcomings.

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,972

    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    You should ask them to stop.

    You really are having quite a little evening ;)

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776

    Originally posted by Teala

    That's because the moderation around here has been bad for a long time.   You get a warning for the stupidest things and yet some people can nerd rage and personally attack others and nothing is done.     Such are the forums of MMORPG.com.   I seriously doubt they'll change anytime soon.

     To the op I hate to see such an active community member go and I hate to say it but I tend to agree with Teala twice I've been warned on this site once was for saying I was in a beta (didn't say anything about it other than I was in it) and the other time was for making a post that was political in nature (which I did in response to someone else) and I'm not making excuses because I am aware in both cases I did actually break the rules I was accused of but I have noticed a pretty large number of posts and posters who personally attack others intelligence,circumstance, etc..  In mmorpgs defense it's possible they warn alot of those folks and we just aren't aware but as fast as I got jumped on something tells me as the op says this might not be the highest priority for them.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • kobietrumankobietruman Member Posts: 105

    oh puleaze!!!

    quit taking it so seriously

    if anything, this site has become too mamby-pamby with the overbearing babysitting of the mods here

    the fun of "hearty" discussion is being wrung right of of this place making it useless

    anyone know of equivalent sites where you can type what you think (within reason of course)?

    image

  • NevulusNevulus Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Dear Mr. Stradden, MMORPG team





    I am here for many years, and for a long time I had enjoyed being here. I took some absence for a time, trying to get some distance after finding my positions and argumentations confronted with personal attacks and the most low mockery ("get a job and move out of your basement") on and on, and I am just tired of it. I understand a moderator can not see and control everything. But the way people are treated here, not just me but others as well... it has just evolved in a way I don't want to face anymore. I know a popular website like yours probably won't care, but it is my necessary act to say it nontheless. This site has too much become a place of hate and attacks.



    As such, I can not tolerate to spent time in a place where I am not protected from personal attacks. I am sure those who always just wanted to silence me will rejoice in what shallow victory they can claim. May it be so. I do not make myself further the object of people's hate, so I am taking my leave. Permanently.

     

    As to you who only had hate and mean words for me: may you find what you gave to others. You are so full of hate and anger, I pity the life you lead. It is a sad way of dealing with other human beings, and life is too precious, too short to waste it with being bad to another just because you disagree with him. Maybe one day you think about it what you doing to others.

     

    Elikal

     

    /applaud

     

    Well put, well said, well stated. A bunch of us feel the same way, especially since it wasn't like this a while ago. I was a forum lurker for a long time prior to me joining, and I have noticed such a drastic change for the worse that I sometimes wonder if anything is being done, and while I would like to believe things have been done for the better, I have only noticed the worse in people. Especially and specifically in subforums such as Darkfall (during launch) and Mortal Online, just to name a few. It is always the SAME forum members deliberately trying to stir up hate and controversary. I guess in the world of forums even bad publicity is good publicity? I am not sure, while I would love to remain faithful and loyal to MMORPG.com, I guess it is time to find an alternative. Message me if anyone finds another place.

     

    P.S. If moderators are needed, I would much rather be part of the solution, than the problem and would be more than willing to lend a helping unbiased hand.

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662

    Personally speaking, I'm all for moderation.  Simply because there are ways and means of discussing a subject in a civilised and mature manner without having to use foul language, personal attacks or anything else derogatory.

    Yes, people are passionate about subjects.  But that doesn't give them the right to abuse others for their own perverted pleasure.  People blame the internet for its anonimity.  Sorry but that's complete rubbish.  The internet is a tool, and just like any other tool it can be (and often is) abused by people of a particular mindset.  And THOSE people should definately be chastised when they don't adhere to the rules, otherwise it all descends into chaos and the tool becomes useless.

    After all, this site is privately owned.  The users of the site agree to terms (whether implied or otherwise) and therefore we should expect to be repremanded when we don't abide by them.

     

    Freedom of speech may be a right, but using common sense is a duty. 

    Its just a shame that people forget the latter part of that sentence.

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,972

    Originally posted by jaxsundane

    Originally posted by Teala

    That's because the moderation around here has been bad for a long time.   You get a warning for the stupidest things and yet some people can nerd rage and personally attack others and nothing is done.     Such are the forums of MMORPG.com.   I seriously doubt they'll change anytime soon.

     To the op I hate to see such an active community member go and I hate to say it but I tend to agree with Teala twice I've been warned on this site once was for saying I was in a beta (didn't say anything about it other than I was in it) and the other time was for making a post that was political in nature (which I did in response to someone else) and I'm not making excuses because I am aware in both cases I did actually break the rules I was accused of but I have noticed a pretty large number of posts and posters who personally attack others intelligence,circumstance, etc..  In mmorpgs defense it's possible they warn alot of those folks and we just aren't aware but as fast as I got jumped on something tells me as the op says this might not be the highest priority for them.

    Whoa! You've had two warnings. You must enjoy living on the edge :)

    Just report the little buggers man, you have to realize that the mods are simply not going to catch every little insult and slap that occurs on these forums. Be realistic, really.

    I've acted up on this site and felt the power of the ban hammer. Several times :)  I've also been wrongly banned and things were rightly reversed. I can't even say enough about how professional and reasonable this site's Community Manager really is. 

    If you require something a little more quiet and peaceful, Massively is that way. This site is so much more than anything out there though. After all the BS, that's why we're all really here.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • negentropynegentropy Member Posts: 241

    Originally posted by Elikal

     (Still warning me for just fighting back kinda was meh, but well.) 

    This statement could very well be the "facepalm" moment of 2010.

    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -Winston Churchill
  • negentropynegentropy Member Posts: 241

    Originally posted by Cecropia

    Whoa! You've had two warnings. You must enjoy living on the edge :)

    Really. I have so many warnings I wallpapered my kitchen with the printouts. image

    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -Winston Churchill
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,003

    Sigh, this drama again.  These forums are for PVP folks, and you'd better be tough enough to stand the heat, especially if you decide to create a new thread.  Expect many folks to disagree completely with your opinion, call you an idiot, directly or indirectly and if you don't want this, don't post your opinion.

    I think the moderation is a bit heavy handed myself, I'm a big boy and can handle what anyone here dishes out.  On those rare occasions that someone really annoys me they get reported or blocked. (kind of silly that some folks will continually  read posts from people they cannot stand, yet never take advantage of the tools available to them to relieve their 'misery'.

    And if you think you've been unfairly moderated, appeal the decision, I've found MikeB to be very fair in this regard and have had several overturned in my favor. (and lost a few as well, I'm not always right)

    I enjoy these forums.  Like games, everyone has their preferences and this forum might not the right one for them, though I'm sure the owners would prefer to make it appealing to as many people as possible.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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