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Another MMO Bites The Dust - Cash Shop Stealthed In

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  • gamerman98gamerman98 Member UncommonPosts: 804

    if you dont like a cash shop then obviously you shouldnt play MMOs at all since I guarantee over 80% of the P2P MMOs that will come out in the future will have a cash shop or item mall. You should really start blaming RMT sites and gold sellers because its their fault this is happening.

  • Gabby-airGabby-air Member UncommonPosts: 3,440

    Originally posted by tawess

    Also if the OP realy was a fan of this game would he not be happy that the developers do everything in their power to make the game sit in the green... As this would increase the games chance to survive.

     

    Also i have a distant memory of a cash shop back in beta... i could be wrong tho.

    With the outrage that is going on in the official forums im not exactly sure the item mall is helping their cause.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Gabby-air

    Originally posted by tawess

    Also if the OP realy was a fan of this game would he not be happy that the developers do everything in their power to make the game sit in the green... As this would increase the games chance to survive.

     

    Also i have a distant memory of a cash shop back in beta... i could be wrong tho.

    With the outrage that is going on in the official forums im not exactly sure the item mall is helping their cause.

    Can you link to those threads? I only saw two that are pretty large, and it's jaredstanko and a tiny handful of others making a lot of noise in them. I didn't see outrage there.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538

    I have to chime in here on this. Cash shops and RMT are never good for the quality of the product. There is no logical or rational reason to support them unless you are a publisher and want to increase revenue.  Cash Shops and RMT elements always lead to bad game design. This means that where the core design element used to be based around fun, and fun being what sells the game and keep subs... ends up turning into business. Design a game not to be fun, but to get more money through RMT, it doesnt support long term subscriptions through existing content, but finds ways to alter design and long term content to increase revenue. The effect is much like pouring gasoline on something, it just burns up faster. The product ceases to be long term, and rather focuses on a quick money grab before people leave for the next thing.

     

    It is just bad for good game design and at the end of the day both the consumers and the developers lose out on it.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484

    Originally posted by tawess

    Also if the OP realy was a fan of this game would he not be happy that the developers do everything in their power to make the game sit in the green... As this would increase the games chance to survive.

     

    Also i have a distant memory of a cash shop back in beta... i could be wrong tho.

     Doing everything they could would involve improving the game so it had a decent subscriber base. Unfortunately they're simply ignoring the real problems and adding a cash shop.

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • EmoqqboyEmoqqboy Member UncommonPosts: 194

    This is an issue with cash shop games i've  realised from the start. I dont understand why alot of peeps dont get it, and some even get happy when game goes f2p. Its pretty simple from my perspective, firstly the game is doing badly, so they convert to f2p hoping more players would play, next they start off with non-consequential items sold by the cash shopto see how sales goes. If they dont earn enough or/and feel they want higher revenue, they wait till the number of players caps off for a time period and start introducing consequential items into the cash shop, so if you're serious about the game, now you HAVE to purchase certain upgrade stuff/content etc from the cash shop. Eventually, a serious gamer starts spending more than he would have if it were p2p. ??? lol seriously i just dont get it, why peeps dont understand the marketting strategy. There's no free game concept seems to not get through to those who are oblivious to the fact that game companies need revenue somehow or another. Are there simpletons who believe there are charity game developers around who develop games and maintain a game server free of everything inclusive of advertisements just so gamers can enjoy it? lol

    <QQ moar plz. kkthxbai.>

  • alakramalakram Member UncommonPosts: 2,301

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Sub cancelled and no you can't have my stuff :)

    and just to avoid the noise

    I'm paying a subscription fee which IMHO gets me 100% percent of the content of the game - i don't care if the item in the shop is a pink tutu with purple spots it better be earnable/available in game

    if/when the game goes ftp - THEN i won't care

    I understand your opinion. When EQ2 added a cash shop I didnt like it. I even thought I was never going to play it again. Some time after that I wanted to play it and I thought life is too short to not have with something I like, even if it have a cash shop over a minthly sub. I think is wrong to have one over another, inf fact in my opinion the games with monthly sub plus a cash shop are clearly greedy bussines but, as I said, I dont care anymore, I like, I play. I respect your opinion, just I dont share it.



  • BesttheiswowBesttheiswow Member Posts: 301

    The game is biting the dust since launch so they have nothing to lose in going cash shop...they should go f2p also...maybe they could get a few subs...to last a bit more .

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,288

    Originally posted by epsilon426

    Originally posted by gatheris


    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by gatheris

    Sub cancelled and no you can't have my stuff :)

    and just to avoid the noise

    I'm paying a subscription fee which IMHO gets me 100% percent of the content of the game - i don't care if the item in the shop is a pink tutu with purple spots it better be earnable/available in game

    if/when the game goes ftp - THEN i won't care

    But... you can get a pet dog in the game. You also outgrow the benefits of the goggles by level 5 or so.

     

    Did you bother to look into this at all or did you just see exrtas available for a fee and freak out?

     apparently reading is not second nature to you

    please try again starting with "i'm paying a subscription..............."

    there is no "freak out" - i just don't pay a sub for games with cash shops - again, i don't care what is in it

    i don't expect anyone to follow me like little lemmings - though if it would put a stop to this that would be cool as i really liked this game - sigh

     

    running out of choices though - back to EVE maybe until LOTRO is availabe FTP

     

     "lornphoenix" - thanks for that response - - - happy to see someone on these forums has at least 2 brains cells to rub together :) 

     

    and another one "Khalathwyr"

    "back to EVE maybe until LOTRO is availabe FTP"

     

    I hate to tell you, EVE has a cash shop as well, it called plex.

     

    I don't see problem with cash shop as long as it does not grant an advantage in the long run. If you upset with goggles that help lowbies and pet that are cosmetic in nature, I don't know how you could play EVE online at all then. Also, what games wont let you pay extra for pets, cosmetic stuff like that or XP boost? Also how does someone speding money on things like that hurt your enjoymeny of the game? I personally feel good about it that I have something I got, while they spent money on it. Even if cash shop are not in game, you can buy power leveling servies or item from people with real money, just not legit.

    Well, you're only partly correct.  The PLEX system isn't actually a cash shop.  It involves players who purchase GTCs who turn around and sell them to players in the game with extra ISK.  CCP helps facilitate the transactions safely, but they don't actually profit directly from the tranaction.

    They do however charge us a fee to change our avatar's portrait so that is a form of cash shop I suppose, because that should actually be a free service IMO.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    So you are against the cash shops because they make profits or that you can use real money to buy items because I know people that bought GTC to get isk to buy Rorquals and carriers.

  • mklinicmklinic Member RarePosts: 1,902

    pretty sure the conversation, relevant to EvE, has taken place a few dozen times at: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/430/Jita-General.html

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,288

    Originally posted by Horusra

    So you are against the cash shops because they make profits or that you can use real money to buy items because I know people that bought GTC to get isk to buy Rorquals and carriers.

    No, I'm against cash shops that sell items that can't be obtained otherwise in the game somehow through normal gameplay.

    I'm also against paying for something like changing a characters look or name, which some (not all) games provide for free.

    Regardless why people buy GTC's (to purchase ships or not) its still not a cash shop item.  GTC's can be purchased from any number of retailers and then traded in game to other players for ISK.  One could do the same thing in WOW the only difference being there's no secure website to trade the GTC's on provided by Blizzard.

    CCP doesn't make a fee from the transaction itself (trading of ISK for GTC), only in the purchase of the GTC itself which is the same as in any other game.

    Edit: Also wanted to add, the presence of a cash shop, or even if CCP decided to expand there's would not be a major determining factor in whether I continued my 3 subs, if I'm having fun and feeling like I'm competitive (which I am and do) then I'll keep playing.

    Anyone who says they are quitting their MMO over the addition of a cash shop really wasn't enjoying the game that much anyways.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    You could trade a WoW time card for gold in game, but it would be against the rules of the game unlike Eve.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,288

    Originally posted by Horusra

    You could trade a WoW time card for gold in game, but it would be against the rules of the game unlike Eve.

    True statement, but doesn't make it a cash shop transaction regardless of the legalities

    edit: and I've gone off topic, this is about FE, not EVE, so I'll stop now.

    I've always considered trying FE, and this decision neither increases or decreases the likely hood of that happening.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    only in your opinion.  To others buying isk is a cash shop.  DDO sells gold coins to buy items.  So I guess it is not a cash shop because you are not using cash to buy items but instead gold coins to trade in for items.

  • kobietrumankobietruman Member Posts: 105

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Sub cancelled and no you can't have my stuff :)

    and just to avoid the noise

    I'm paying a subscription fee which IMHO gets me 100% percent of the content of the game - i don't care if the item in the shop is a pink tutu with purple spots it better be earnable/available in game

    if/when the game goes ftp - THEN i won't care

    But... you can get a pet dog in the game. You also outgrow the benefits of the goggles by level 5 or so.

     

    Did you bother to look into this at all or did you just see exrtas available for a fee and freak out?

     apparently reading is not second nature to you

    please try again starting with "i'm paying a subscription..............."

    there is no "freak out" - i just don't pay a sub for games with cash shops - again, i don't care what is in it

    That is a different stance than what you previously stated and has nothing to do with my reply.  You said that they better be earnable/available to you in game. I replied that they are.

     geez, comprehension issues?

    stance seems the same to me and no those particular items are not available in-game

    image

  • vonslashavonslasha Member Posts: 31

    cash shops are for people who are pussys or people too scared to do things for themselves. way to go FE! i guess corwards are people too.

  • Hopscotch73Hopscotch73 Member UncommonPosts: 971

    I don't know, like a number of other players I'm holding out to see how the cash shop progresses.

    I know when I saw the announcement on the FE launcher, I thought it meant we'd be able to buy FE Merch (want a t-shirt soooo badly!) and clicked, then saw the goggles and the cur, went "wtf?!" and got a sinking feeling in my stomach.

    I love FE, flaws and all, it's the only MMO I want to play at the moment. I'm not quitting over what is essentially fluff, but I was planning to sub up for a full year (since I have a job again now) and now that's probably off the table, in case the cash shop gets out of control.

    Haven't been to the FE forums yet this evening, but I really hope there was a dev response to the threads going over there. Players are not happy, people are unsubbing, it can't be good for the game to have this drama on top of all the rest there's been over the past few months.

    I went from "Yay!" over the iPhone app (even limited as it is) to "Bummer...." when I saw the cash shop.

    So, I'm very wary, but I'm not quitting just yet.

  • KillHurtKillHurt Member Posts: 347

    Come join the GW2 movement, we are a happy bunch ;)

    image

  • epsilon426epsilon426 Member UncommonPosts: 14

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by epsilon426


    Originally posted by gatheris


    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by gatheris

    Sub cancelled and no you can't have my stuff :)

    and just to avoid the noise

    I'm paying a subscription fee which IMHO gets me 100% percent of the content of the game - i don't care if the item in the shop is a pink tutu with purple spots it better be earnable/available in game

    if/when the game goes ftp - THEN i won't care

    But... you can get a pet dog in the game. You also outgrow the benefits of the goggles by level 5 or so.

     

    Did you bother to look into this at all or did you just see exrtas available for a fee and freak out?

     apparently reading is not second nature to you

    please try again starting with "i'm paying a subscription..............."

    there is no "freak out" - i just don't pay a sub for games with cash shops - again, i don't care what is in it

    i don't expect anyone to follow me like little lemmings - though if it would put a stop to this that would be cool as i really liked this game - sigh

     

    running out of choices though - back to EVE maybe until LOTRO is availabe FTP

     

     "lornphoenix" - thanks for that response - - - happy to see someone on these forums has at least 2 brains cells to rub together :) 

     

    and another one "Khalathwyr"

    "back to EVE maybe until LOTRO is availabe FTP"

     

    I hate to tell you, EVE has a cash shop as well, it called plex.

     

    I don't see problem with cash shop as long as it does not grant an advantage in the long run. If you upset with goggles that help lowbies and pet that are cosmetic in nature, I don't know how you could play EVE online at all then. Also, what games wont let you pay extra for pets, cosmetic stuff like that or XP boost? Also how does someone speding money on things like that hurt your enjoymeny of the game? I personally feel good about it that I have something I got, while they spent money on it. Even if cash shop are not in game, you can buy power leveling servies or item from people with real money, just not legit.

    Well, you're only partly correct.  The PLEX system isn't actually a cash shop.  It involves players who purchase GTCs who turn around and sell them to players in the game with extra ISK.  CCP helps facilitate the transactions safely, but they don't actually profit directly from the tranaction.

    They do however charge us a fee to change our avatar's portrait so that is a form of cash shop I suppose, because that should actually be a free service IMO.

    I forgot about that avatar part.

     

    I know plex arn't exatly a cash shop, and thanks for clarifiying it for other people, but I believe you understand what I meant by it.

     

    That it is something you can spend real money on and get an advantage, in other word in game money, which is kinda important in a game like EVE. Where as the cash shop you spend real money for item either cosmetic things like pet or items that help you, in fallen earth case from what I hear it is lowbie gear and pets so far.

     

    I enjoy and don't have a problem with it in EVE, and people are gonna spend real money of things, risk getting banned and getting personal information stolen, and eve does a job to protect and curtail some of the shady part of the MMO community and I think eve has one of the best balances of it.

  • kobietrumankobietruman Member Posts: 105

    Originally posted by KillHurt

    Come join the GW2 movement, we are a happy bunch ;)

     our last true hope......................

    image

  • MahloMahlo Member UncommonPosts: 797

    it seems as though the good feeling around the community in this game is being gradually eroded. first hammock left, then 75% of the staff were sacked, then crafting was nerfed and now they introduce a cash shop. it's also interesting to see that the iphone app was released this week. when all those employees were sacked many players said it wouldn't affect development of the game because those sacked were workbig ing on other aspects, such as the mobile apps. obviously not. i worry for the future of fallen earth.

  • kirawatskirawats Member Posts: 57


    Originally posted by kobietruman

    Originally posted by KillHurt
    Come join the GW2 movement, we are a happy bunch ;)
     our last true hope......................

    Sorry to say this, but GW2 likely to have cash shop also. Based on the current cash shop on GW:

    http://www.guildwars.com/products/extras/default.php

    https://secure.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/Store.pl?dnv=3364845931&action=toggleCategory&category=4

  • ShadewalkerShadewalker Member Posts: 299

    The problem developers face is that their costs have risen dramatically over the last dozen years while standard monthly subscription levels haven't changed at all in that time. It costs me a lot less to play a computer game on an unlimited basis for a month than it does to go to the cinema for typically less than  2 hours entertainment and that is unsustainable.

    While developers could deal with that by increasing subscriptions substantially they doubtless take the view that it would put a lot more people off than simply introducing an optional extra charge for what are largely fluff items. While a few people have a principled view against that and quit, their lost subscriptions are more than made up by those who remain and spend more money. Of course, the overwhelming majority stay, don't pay any extra money, and are totally unaffected by the whole issue.

    Moreover, we all know that a good many of those who claim they're cancelling out of principle over this issue or that issue when posting on a forum in the heat of the moment after the latest storm in a teacup either don't do so or else come back again pretty quickly. I've lost track of the number of times SOE have caused me to cancel in order to make a point but I'm still playing their games!

    A lot of players are quick to criticise developers for releasing inferior products, or for laying off staff, or for introducing alternative (including additional) ways of paying for their games, but unless they are themselves willing to come up with any better ideas for funding these games they'll find there aren't any worthwhile games to play at all because without adequate funding they just won't exist. The notion that you can pay £10 per month and that's going to get you a AAA game to play because if not you're out of it simply isn't a viable position to adopt any longer.

  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    Bites the dust? A cash shop alone is no reason for that. AoC has a cash shop, WoW has a cash shop, Aion has a cash shop, and all in addition to a subscription fee. Did it kill them? Doesn't look like it to me.

     

    So on the one hand I think:

    For me, it shouldn't matter. I can just ignore the cash shop. If another person has 4 more slots to carry stuff or not: what does it have to do with me? Nothing. If it would be a pvp heavy game: maybe. But it's not, it's focused on PvE. And if I do my questing, alone or with some people, and someone else has a few bag slots more: what impact does it have on my game? None at all. I can just not buy anything from the cash shop, and the game is for me exactly the same game as before the cash shop.

     

    On the other hand I think:

    The cash shop gives people advantages. Tiny ones, but still advantages. Four more bag slots? They can sometimes be quite a difference since that basically allows you to carry another several hundred rounds of ammo around, or food, or loot, or whatever. As such, people who use the cash shop can make more money ingame (in beeing able to loot more before returning) and in general stay active a longer time before having return to the town. They get more money this way, more xp, more of everything. Not much, but there is a difference. And goggles? Compared to end-game items they suck. Early game on they are great though. They give early players who buy them an advantage, allowing them to die less often, thus level faster, make more money, craft more and do better allaround. And that by paying more. It's like a premium account. Costs more, but you are a little bit better in everything than the rest. And that bugs me.

     

    So, both of these points of view have something going for them.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

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