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The beginning of the end for this game

13

Comments

  • BenjolaBenjola Member UncommonPosts: 843

    Originally posted by musicmann

     

     

    Boy, talk about the motherload of all assumptions.  You seem to have a gift of seeing into the future. I guess you may be kin to Anakin Skywalker. Please, just stop acting like you have this inside track on what is happening at Bioware.

    There are a few you that seem to constantly moan and groan just to insight fear. I'm not one to make personal attacks but you and some others must have failed comprehension in school. From the very beginning Bioware has stayed forthcoming and said, they would not release any information about the game unless they are 110% sure that it will be in the game and the system is polished and ready to go for launch.

    I dont have a gift of any kind, but I do have a gaming experience since the 80's and I've been very acurate about the fate of many MMOs post launch.

    I seem to be always right even when I dont want to be.

    I'm sceptic about any MMO made after WoW and rightly so, I'm yet to play a MMO that can keep me for longer then 2 months since I quit Everquest about 4 years ago.

    It is very clear what type of game SWTOR will be, you can ignore logic and common sense and cheer on, by all means do, I couldnt care less heh.

     

    "We will release info when we are 100% sure it will be in" sounded reasonable a year ago, it sounds like a lame excuse 9 months before launch.

    Are you trying to tell me that after 5+ years of development the ONLY thing Bioware is 110% sure it will be i8n are the voice overs and story?

    Thats all fluff, has nothing to do with MMO mechanics and features that they should talk about (if they had them).

    GW2 will most likely launch after ToR and yet we know much more about the MMO part of the game.

    ToR will have to enter Beta in about 3 months if they want to stay on track for next year launch... and yet they are not sure yet about crafting, PVP and grouping mechanics?

    Give me a break...

     

    The writing is on the wall like it or not, SWTOR will NOT be an MMORPG....which is fine if they just admit it and change their billing plan.

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • RelampagoRelampago Member UncommonPosts: 358

    Puff puff pass, you dont know what they know nor do you know the current state of the game.  See you in game in 2011.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by Relampago

    Puff puff pass, you dont know what they know nor do you know the current state of the game.  See you in game in 2011.

    It will be interesting to see how much we know about the game when the Collectors' Editions and Lifetime Subscriptions are put out for sale.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Benjola

    Originally posted by musicmann


     

     

    Boy, talk about the motherload of all assumptions.  You seem to have a gift of seeing into the future. I guess you may be kin to Anakin Skywalker. Please, just stop acting like you have this inside track on what is happening at Bioware.

    There are a few you that seem to constantly moan and groan just to insight fear. I'm not one to make personal attacks but you and some others must have failed comprehension in school. From the very beginning Bioware has stayed forthcoming and said, they would not release any information about the game unless they are 110% sure that it will be in the game and the system is polished and ready to go for launch.

    I dont have a gift of any kind, but I do have a gaming experience since the 80's and I've been very acurate about the fate of many MMOs post launch. A lot of posters here have game experience from the '80s/begin '90s, doesn't mean that much. You say you've been very accurate about the fate of MMO's post launch? Interesting, makes me wonder what you're thinking of all the other upcoming MMO's since your foretelling of SW ToR sounds questionable.

    I seem to be always right even when I dont want to be.

    I'm sceptic about any MMO made after WoW and rightly so, I'm yet to play a MMO that can keep me for longer then 2 months since I quit Everquest about 4 years ago. Again, so you're sceptic about all the MMO's that will be released in the upcoming 2 years? You not being able to keep longer in a MMO than 2 months is no measure, of course.

    It is very clear what type of game SWTOR will be, you can ignore logic and common sense and cheer on, by all means do, I couldnt care less heh. Some things are clear, and some things we'll just have to see and find out in the beta, since not that much information has been released yet. Funny, how the lack of information makes people feel sure what kind of game TOR will be.

     

    "We will release info when we are 100% sure it will be in" sounded reasonable a year ago, it sounds like a lame excuse 9 months before launch.

    Are you trying to tell me that after 5+ years of development the ONLY thing Bioware is 110% sure it will be i8n are the voice overs and story? So, and this makes you conclude that you have discovered all TOR will be?

    Thats all fluff, has nothing to do with MMO mechanics and features that they should talk about (if they had them).

    GW2 will most likely launch after ToR and yet we know much more about the MMO part of the game. I'm guessing myself that GW2 will launch before TOR, somewhere around late spring/summer for GW2 and fall for TOR. Just guessing though, but GW2 seems to be further in their alpha testing than TOR.

    ToR will have to enter Beta in about 3 months if they want to stay on track for next year launch... and yet they are not sure yet about crafting, PVP and grouping mechanics?

    Give me a break...

     

    The writing is on the wall like it or not, SWTOR will NOT be an MMORPG....which is fine if they just admit it and change their billing plan. Now you're being ridiculous, if you try to convince others that SWTOR is not a MMORPG, you lose all credibility with that single statement.

    Just comically, the less Bioware has released in concrete information, the more certain some people are what sort of game SW TOR will be.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • musicmannmusicmann Member UncommonPosts: 1,095

    Originally posted by Benjola

    Originally posted by musicmann

     

     

    Boy, talk about the motherload of all assumptions.  You seem to have a gift of seeing into the future. I guess you may be kin to Anakin Skywalker. Please, just stop acting like you have this inside track on what is happening at Bioware.

    There are a few you that seem to constantly moan and groan just to insight fear. I'm not one to make personal attacks but you and some others must have failed comprehension in school. From the very beginning Bioware has stayed forthcoming and said, they would not release any information about the game unless they are 110% sure that it will be in the game and the system is polished and ready to go for launch.

    I dont have a gift of any kind, but I do have a gaming experience since the 80's and I've been very acurate about the fate of many MMOs post launch.

    I seem to be always right even when I dont want to be.

    I'm sceptic about any MMO made after WoW and rightly so, I'm yet to play a MMO that can keep me for longer then 2 months since I quit Everquest about 4 years ago.

    It is very clear what type of game SWTOR will be, you can ignore logic and common sense and cheer on, by all means do, I couldnt care less heh.

     

    "We will release info when we are 100% sure it will be in" sounded reasonable a year ago, it sounds like a lame excuse 9 months before launch.

    Are you trying to tell me that after 5+ years of development the ONLY thing Bioware is 110% sure it will be i8n are the voice overs and story?

    Thats all fluff, has nothing to do with MMO mechanics and features that they should talk about (if they had them).

    GW2 will most likely launch after ToR and yet we know much more about the MMO part of the game.

    ToR will have to enter Beta in about 3 months if they want to stay on track for next year launch... and yet they are not sure yet about crafting, PVP and grouping mechanics?

    Give me a break...

     

    The writing is on the wall like it or not, SWTOR will NOT be an MMORPG....which is fine if they just admit it and change their billing plan.

     

    So, what you're saying is, you believe the GW2 devs when they say this and that will be in the game and not TOR's when they have said the same thing. I surely can't recall seeing any videos of this so called mmo mechanics from GW2 and yet it seems you and alot of others blindfully gobble up what they say as 100% fact without hesitation.

  • safetysafety Member Posts: 219

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter


    Originally posted by Benjola

    I have a feeling that SWTOR will be the flop of the century, a massive failure of monumental proportions.

    I hope for Bioware's sake I'm wrong (they make decent single player RPGs that I enjoy).

    I've been following this game for a year now and its clear to me that both Bioware and LA are out of touch with the MMO comunity, kinda like Funcom was with AoC, good intentions and hard workers but unable to understand the difference between MMO and SP gamer.

    I just don't think they are aiming for MMO players.

    KOTOR fans? Hell, yes.

    BioWare fans? For sure.

    Star Wars fans? Kinda.

    MMO players? Meh. Throw in the the standard features and see how many stick around for a while.

     

    Now, they could still show us a kick-ass PvP campaign - with RvR elements and great balance and performance, and super fun space combat. If they did that (and had no cash shop), I would buy and play it.

    I might even dabble a little in the solo character storylines.

    I actually agree with you, they aren't going for mmo players. But I do think they are going for Star Wars Fans, not "kind of". For fans it's as much of a legitimate Star Wars property as any of the novels or comics.

    I don't know.

    There are two typoes of Star Wars fans:

    The ones who pretty much like all Star Wars stuff apart from the really trashy stuff - like Eps. IV, I, II and III, and The Clone Wars.

    And the ones who like it all including the trashy stuff.

    I fear this game is aimed at the second group.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by safety

    I don't know.

    There are two typoes of Star Wars fans:

    The ones who pretty much like all Star Wars stuff apart from the really trashy stuff - like Eps. IV, I, II and III, and The Clone Wars.

    And the ones who like it all including the trashy stuff.

    I fear this game is aimed at the second group.

    I PRAY you meant Ep VI, not EP IV.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    Originally posted by safety

    The ones who pretty much like all Star Wars stuff apart from the really trashy stuff - like Eps. IV

     XD

    I pity you.  Never underestimate the wrath of Star Wars fans.

    Hehe

    /popcorn

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,812

    Originally posted by jaxsundane

     

     Awesome post as usual Sovrath I especially like the final two paragraphs which is pretty much my own experience, most of the people I know are gamers first and quite a few of them play only WOW for those same reasons but again agreed with the last sentence and this post is a clear illustration of that.

    You are too kind. Wish we couuld take this group to a pub and just sit back over a pint and have this discussion.




  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    You are too kind. Wish we couuld take this group to a pub and just sit back over a pint and have this discussion.

    Not much of a discussion if everyone agrees.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,812

    Originally posted by safety

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I actually agree with you, they aren't going for mmo players. But I do think they are going for Star Wars Fans, not "kind of". For fans it's as much of a legitimate Star Wars property as any of the novels or comics.

    I don't know.

    There are two typoes of Star Wars fans:

    The ones who pretty much like all Star Wars stuff apart from the really trashy stuff - like Eps. IV, I, II and III, and The Clone Wars.

    And the ones who like it all including the trashy stuff.

    I fear this game is aimed at the second group.

    That's possible.

    Remember, Lucas, like him or hate him, does market the heck out of his IP and does take advantage of whatever he can in order to generate a healthy profit.

    I'm not sure if people remember, but i recall reading an article prior to the very first of the second series (phantom menace right?) that said that lucas had made so many marketing deals and tie in deals that even if the movie lost money (har har har) he would still make a profit.

    I reallize there are some realy die hard purists. I don't really fall into that category but I will be honest and say that liked all the movies in an entertainment sort of way but only loved the very first Star Wars movie and The Empire strikes back.

    Those are the only two that I actually own.

    So I think there are people who are going to have preferences but who won't completely mind or will be able to tolerate a more broad view of the IP.

    Then again, we dont' have this game in our hands. I'm more than willing to be patient and see what comes of it.

    As someone who has done his good and fair share of theater, you might be surprised the difference that comes on opening night.

    Then again, for a good many recently released games they probably should have not even opened according to some of their fans.




  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    You are too kind. Wish we couuld take this group to a pub and just sit back over a pint and have this discussion.

    Not much of a discussion if everyone agrees.

     Discussion yes debate no.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • safetysafety Member Posts: 219

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by safety

    I don't know.

    There are two typoes of Star Wars fans:

    The ones who pretty much like all Star Wars stuff apart from the really trashy stuff - like Eps. IV, I, II and III, and The Clone Wars.

    And the ones who like it all including the trashy stuff.

    I fear this game is aimed at the second group.

    I PRAY you meant Ep VI, not EP IV.

    Ooops! You're right! Ep IV was the good one. It was the frigging VI that had the Empire beaten by the Muppets. God I hated that battle on Endor and the blowing up of the Death Star - AGAIN! WRF was George Lucas thinking? Had his imagination really run out?

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,058

    OP makes no sense and only shows ignorance.

    1. Adeptstrain moved to SW:TOR way after the designing stage of SW:TOR has finished.

    2. Adepstrain is a coder and was never responsible for decisions about SWG. If anything, he is one of the good devs that is responsible for coding new UI windows and features (story telling system, appearance window etc).

    The fact that he worked on SWG doesnt automatically mean anything about the course that SW:TOR will go in. It just means that Bioware thinks he is good in what he does.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by safety

    Ooops! You're right! Ep IV was the good one. It was the frigging VI that had the Empire beaten by the Muppets. God I hated that battle on Endor and the blowing up of the Death Star - AGAIN! WRF was George Lucas thinking? Had his imagination really run out?

    EP VI was bad - really bad. I consider II as good (even with the 'love' scenes), and III far superior.

    According to legend - it was supposed to be Wookiees fighting the Storm Troopers, but Lucas thought walking, talking teddy bears would be more popular with children.

    I don't know, man. It's just incredible to me that someone who made Star Wars could produce garbage like ROTJ and TPM. Talk about 'losing it'. Just sad.

     

    BTW - anyone who hasn't seen it yet, check out 'how it should have ended' for Star Wars on youtube. Absolutely hilarious.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • safetysafety Member Posts: 219

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    OP makes no sense and only shows ignorance.

    1. Adeptstrain moved to SW:TOR way after the designing stage of SW:TOR has finished.

    2. Adepstrain is a coder and was never responsible for decisions about SWG. If anything, he is one of the good devs that is responsible for coding new UI windows and features (story telling system, appearance window etc).

    The fact that he worked on SWG doesnt automatically mean anything about the course that SW:TOR will go in. It just means that Bioware thinks he is good in what he does.

    I show ignorance, do I? Or am I just quoting what the reporters on massively.com have said? Everything I have said is lifted almost verbatim from their report. If you don't like the news, take it up with them with my blessing.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,694

    The only time it will be the end is if they pull another NGE, which I think even ex SOE employees aren't even stupid enough to do.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,812

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by Sovrath



    You are too kind. Wish we couuld take this group to a pub and just sit back over a pint and have this discussion.

    Not much of a discussion if everyone agrees.

    Oh I think there would be room for debate in this crowd. image




  • DrakynnDrakynn Member Posts: 2,030

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter


    Originally posted by Sovrath



    You are too kind. Wish we couuld take this group to a pub and just sit back over a pint and have this discussion.

    Not much of a discussion if everyone agrees.

    Oh I think there would be room for debate in this crowd. image

    Well if you call both sides shouting  opinions based on little to no facts and refusing to hear each other debating then these forums are a hotbed of debate! hehe

  • safetysafety Member Posts: 219

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by safety

    Ooops! You're right! Ep IV was the good one. It was the frigging VI that had the Empire beaten by the Muppets. God I hated that battle on Endor and the blowing up of the Death Star - AGAIN! WRF was George Lucas thinking? Had his imagination really run out?

    EP VI was bad - really bad. I consider II as good (even with the 'love' scenes), and III far superior.

    According to legend - it was supposed to be Wookiees fighting the Storm Troopers, but Lucas thought walking, talking teddy bears would be more popular with children.

    I don't know, man. It's just incredible to me that someone who made Star Wars could produce garbage like ROTJ and TPM. Talk about 'losing it'. Just sad.

     

    BTW - anyone who hasn't seen it yet, check out 'how it should have ended' for Star Wars on youtube. Absolutely hilarious.

    It's still stunning to me that Lucas thought the perfect ending for the saga would be to regurgitate the climax of the first movie. What? The same ventilation shaft? The same torpedo? The same explosion? What was wrong with him? Did he really have that much contempt for his audience that he thought we'd swallow it again?

    And the end of the Empire. It all collapses because a Sith lord is thrown down a hole? Here is a creature of unimaginable power and malevolence who has come to control a billion star systems through dark magic - and he dies when he falls down a well? FFS, Luke, who was a whinging 70s teenager fell down a hole WITH HIS ARM CUT OFF, and he was up and about within twenty minutes.

    The best new we will hear about Lucas is that he has passed away peacefully on his ranch and that his Star Wars legacy has been passed on to people who can treat it better - Peter Jackson, maybe, or Francis Ford Coppola or Guilermo del Toro.

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776

    Originally posted by safety

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    OP makes no sense and only shows ignorance.

    1. Adeptstrain moved to SW:TOR way after the designing stage of SW:TOR has finished.

    2. Adepstrain is a coder and was never responsible for decisions about SWG. If anything, he is one of the good devs that is responsible for coding new UI windows and features (story telling system, appearance window etc).

    The fact that he worked on SWG doesnt automatically mean anything about the course that SW:TOR will go in. It just means that Bioware thinks he is good in what he does.

    I show ignorance, do I? Or am I just quoting what the reporters on massively.com have said? Everything I have said is lifted almost verbatim from their report. If you don't like the news, take it up with them with my blessing.

     Are you and souldrainer the same person?  Because I think that's who he is talking about but in any case if it happens to be you the massively article doesn't in any way imply "the beggining of the end for this game" as the thread says it only mentions that SWG is losing a dev who the community seems to be quite fond of I didn't see anything negative in the article about either TOR nor SWG.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776

    Originally posted by safety

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by safety

    Ooops! You're right! Ep IV was the good one. It was the frigging VI that had the Empire beaten by the Muppets. God I hated that battle on Endor and the blowing up of the Death Star - AGAIN! WRF was George Lucas thinking? Had his imagination really run out?

    EP VI was bad - really bad. I consider II as good (even with the 'love' scenes), and III far superior.

    According to legend - it was supposed to be Wookiees fighting the Storm Troopers, but Lucas thought walking, talking teddy bears would be more popular with children.

    I don't know, man. It's just incredible to me that someone who made Star Wars could produce garbage like ROTJ and TPM. Talk about 'losing it'. Just sad.

     

    BTW - anyone who hasn't seen it yet, check out 'how it should have ended' for Star Wars on youtube. Absolutely hilarious.

    It's still stunning to me that Lucas thought the perfect ending for the saga would be to regurgitate the climax of the first movie. What? The same ventilation shaft? The same torpedo? The same explosion? What was wrong with him? Did he really have that much contempt for his audience that he thought we'd swallow it again?

    And the end of the Empire. It all collapses because a Sith lord is thrown down a hole? Here is a creature of unimaginable power and malevolence who has come to control a billion star systems through dark magic - and he dies when he falls down a well? FFS, Luke, who was a whinging 70s teenager fell down a hole WITH HIS ARM CUT OFF, and he was up and about within twenty minutes.

    The best new we will hear about Lucas is that he has passed away peacefully on his ranch and that his Star Wars legacy has been passed on to people who can treat it better - Peter Jackson, maybe, or Francis Ford Coppola or Guilermo del Toro.

     For a minute I tried to ignore all the movie talk but some people seem to want to keep it going I think you are looking for movieinfo.com or something like that this board is about mmo's not your opinion of movies.....

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • safetysafety Member Posts: 219

    Originally posted by jaxsundane

    Originally posted by safety


    Originally posted by someforumguy

    OP makes no sense and only shows ignorance.

    1. Adeptstrain moved to SW:TOR way after the designing stage of SW:TOR has finished.

    2. Adepstrain is a coder and was never responsible for decisions about SWG. If anything, he is one of the good devs that is responsible for coding new UI windows and features (story telling system, appearance window etc).

    The fact that he worked on SWG doesnt automatically mean anything about the course that SW:TOR will go in. It just means that Bioware thinks he is good in what he does.

    I show ignorance, do I? Or am I just quoting what the reporters on massively.com have said? Everything I have said is lifted almost verbatim from their report. If you don't like the news, take it up with them with my blessing.

     Are you and souldrainer the same person?  Because I think that's who he is talking about but in any case if it happens to be you the massively article doesn't in any way imply "the beggining of the end for this game" as the thread says it only mentions that SWG is losing a dev who the community seems to be quite fond of I didn't see anything negative in the article about either TOR nor SWG.

    Oh, did I make a mistake?

    No. The massively article said specifically that this developer was responsible for 'new jedi', 'melee attacks' and 'death troppers' - all of which were part of the general degradation of the game and all of which were strongly criticised by past and present players of the game.

    Hope that clarifies things for you. OK?

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by safety

    It's still stunning to me that Lucas thought the perfect ending for the saga would be to regurgitate the climax of the first movie. What? The same ventilation shaft? The same torpedo? The same explosion? What was wrong with him? Did he really have that much contempt for his audience that he thought we'd swallow it again?

    And arrogant Luke, and the 'We just won the big game' party at the end. Oh, and the finger lightning.

    And the end of the Empire. It all collapses because a Sith lord is thrown down a hole? Here is a creature of unimaginable power and malevolence who has come to control a billion star systems through dark magic - and he dies when he falls down a well? FFS, Luke, who was a whinging 70s teenager fell down a hole WITH HIS ARM CUT OFF, and he was up and about within twenty minutes.

    Yeah. I kind of wonder about Mace Windu too. Yeah he got his arm cut off, but he couldn't do anything about the fall from the chancellor's quarters? After seeing how Obi Wan and Anakin could sky dive without parachutes?

    The best new we will hear about Lucas is that he has passed away peacefully on his ranch and that his Star Wars legacy has been passed on to people who can treat it better - Peter Jackson, maybe, or Francis Ford Coppola or Guilermo del Toro.

    Hmm. We better not talk about Peter Jackson. I suspect we might disagree rather vigorously.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • safetysafety Member Posts: 219

    Originally posted by jaxsundane

    Orig

     

     For a minute I tried to ignore all the movie talk but some people seem to want to keep it going I think you are looking for movieinfo.com or something like that this board is about mmo's not your opinion of movies.....

    My post was about the debasement of the franchise - as represented by the shitty Eps VI, I, II and III. I was expressing the hope that their finger-sniffing badness would not also infect SWTOR. As such, discussion of the films are strikingly relevant to SWTOR.

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