Why would you possibly give Warhammer Online as the example of western MMOG art direction? It's quite possibly the ugliest MMOG ever made, with the most sparse, dull and unappealing designs that I've ever seen. If it weren't for the horrible PvE and mediocre PvP gameplay, then the absolutely terrible art direction would have killed it.
No, if you want to give a proper example of western art direction. One that is to western art as Aion is to eastern art, then you should mention the likes of Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings Online or The Chronicles of Spellborn. That is proper western art direction and it's right up there with the top eastern-influenced games such as Aion, Guild Wars and Lineage 2.
Both styles can be attractive and neither would be reason for me to not subscribe to a MMOG. As long as the gameplay is solid, then the visuals aren't important.
I don't quite see how TERA is a mixture of western and eastern art direction. It has some less effeminate males and western-ish buildings, but those are the only western influences I've managed to spot. In terms of animation, special effects, armor, weaponry and monster design it is fully eastern. In fact it even has a cutesy playable race and the requisite cutesy monsters to fight against. And that character design is still decidedly eastern, with the females practically ripped straight from the Ikkitousen and Witchblade anime. Not to mention the fact that Aion already featured bulky male characters with its fairly extensive character customization system...
None of that is actually bad, except maybe the cute bits, but it's still decidedly non-western and I wonder what makes some of you think otherwise. It certainly looks great and on track to be an excellent game, but that certainly doesn't make it any more western than the likes of Aion.
Dude, srsly, you have ZERO clue about anime. Naruto, Beserk and Bleach?... Thats just the commercial rubbish that actually manages to come out of Japan.
Aion is too "anime" ??? wtf?? Aion IS NOT ANIME! AT ALL. Asian art, yes! But Anime?... what ARE you smokin?
Your article is based on no factual information and is pure speculation derived from your blind ignorance.
personally, i have love/hate relation with traditional eastern game art. character's are crap. yea, sure, they are well made, but they all look the same. there are some exceptions, but, generally, it feels like clone factory. on other hand, monsters/npc are generally diverse and imaginative.
i'm not that much for total realism or total fantasy, either. each has it's place. drop cliches. embrace diversity. give me fat characters. give me skinny. give me ugly. give me choices.
Some of the articles on this site just have to make you laugh and this is one of them.
I will agree that there can be art style differences between East and West. However, I continue to find the "Aion looks too 'anime'" to be one of the most non-sensical statements I have ever heard about the game.
Given the examples in the article, it seems what you are really trying to say is "I don't like games that visually don't remind me of WoW". I find that sad.
"Eastern Style" MMO character design seems to be more realistic (although often you can find weapons too big to be so), with a real effort to ensure that armor mixes and matches well and looks good on the character. So, maybe you are just threatened by sight of fashionable clothing? Not manly enough for you?
Aion has some major flaws, but IMO character design and over all art direction are not among them.
You aren't the only one to make such a statement, but I have a sound theory about what is really going on in some people's heads. Unfotunately, there is no polite way to share it with out spawning a lot of misunderstandings.
personally, i have love/hate relation with traditional eastern game art. character's are crap. yea, sure, they are well made, but they all look the same. there are some exceptions, but, generally, it feels like clone factory. on other hand, monsters/npc are generally diverse and imaginative.
i'm not that much for total realism or total fantasy, either. each has it's place. drop cliches. embrace diversity. give me fat characters. give me skinny. give me ugly. give me choices.
That last is often a valid criticism of Eastern games, how ever I'd clarify that with Aion, in particular, you can indeed make a character fat, skinny, stout or lithe as a bean stock. You can even make an ugly character, if you want to. I think a lot of people never bothered delving into the individual sliders in Aion's Character Creation and ended up chosing only from the presets.
Playing as an Elyos, it wasn't to infrequent to come across an Asmodian character that was made to look more creature like than human. I guess NCSoft can be faulted, though, for the fact that none of the presets go down that path and they didn't put much effort into making the preset faces as distinct from each other as they should have.
Very interesting article-I can't help but think of Aion and how it is an example of what the OP is talking about. The game developers tried to westernize a successful eastern game and I don't think did a good job of it. Something got lost in the translation.
I will agree that there can be art style differences between East and West. However, I continue to find the "Aion looks too 'anime'" to be one of the most non-sensical statements I have ever heard about the game.
There is nothing anime in Aion but peoples use the anime word to describe an eastern style of design. Which is stupid.
Again, Aion is a poor example because you can make yourself look like almost anything. This leads me to believe you have a problem with how someone else looks, which again leads to the whole insecurity thing. The clothing and armor is another issue but even that can be remodeled to look any way you want. When we talk about oversized this and that, the first thing i think of is WoW and not an eastern game.
I prefer western art as I've grown up with it. I make no apologies for my preference and if anyone has an issue with it they need to take a long look at themselves (though honestly if they have such an issue I'm going to make the call that they are incapable of such self reflection and introspective thought). There have been one or three eastern art design games that I have thought looked ok but for the most part it doesn't appeal to me.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I don't see how TERA is moving to a more western style though... it still looks very distinctly eastern to me.
TERA has many western characteristics:
- Human males are totally western style, bulky bearded with males with tanned skin, quiet similiar to WoW ones but with better graphics
- Aman monster races is clearly western, a big horned demon with huge muscles. Baraka race are western styled too
- Most of of the male plate armors have a lot of western influence
Of course there is a lot of eastern incluence cause is a korean game, but it does not look like other eastern games, I can clearly see the mix of artstyles Garrett Fuller is talking about
I don't see how Garret Fuller can call himself a unbias reviewer. Art style should always be the last on the check mark list for reviewers especially for MMOs. P2P mmos are few and FAAAARR between so you don't get much choice like you do with console games where one is released every week practically. It's just nott right to do that. Game play is always the key aspect when I look at the game. If I'm playing a game with hello kitty art style and I'm shoving a giant pink hammer down some one's throat the last thing I would be worried about is the art because as long as the game play is fun and the balance is there I wouldn't care about art.
Me being a artistic person myself I do definetly have my preferences but to say that just because a game isn't dark enough or pretty enough is the reason for me not playing it then I shouldn't be suggesting games to any one or giving any kinda insight.
Although I'm not saying he's wrong that there aren't people like that. I just believe that a person who feels that strongly about art work shouldn't be in the reviewing industry. Makes it hard to believe what the person is saying, many games with bad graphics or style that is mimiced are over looked because of this carelessness and turn out to be a great game.
I don't see how Garret Fuller can call himself a unbias reviewer. Art style should always be the last on the check mark list for reviewers especially for MMOs. P2P mmos are few and FAAAARR between so you don't get much choice like you do with console games where one is released every week practically. It's just nott right to do that. Game play is always the key aspect when I look at the game. If I'm playing a game with hello kitty art style and I'm shoving a giant pink hammer down some one's throat the last thing I would be worried about is the art because as long as the game play is fun and the balance is there I wouldn't care about art.
Me being a artistic person myself I do definetly have my preferences but to say that just because a game isn't dark enough or pretty enough is the reason for me not playing it then I shouldn't be suggesting games to any one or giving any kinda insight.
Although I'm not saying he's wrong that there aren't people like that. I just believe that a person who feels that strongly about art work shouldn't be in the reviewing industry. Makes it hard to believe what the person is saying, many games with bad graphics or style that is mimiced are over looked because of this carelessness and turn out to be a great game.
It is naive to think that any one of the persons who review games isn't biased. Everyone is biased in some manner. That's human nature. To think that someone has ever given you an unbiased review of something is, well, wishful thinking. The goal is to refine your own radar such that you can filter out the opinion statements and collect the facts. From those facts you can then forumlate your own opinions and whether you would like something or not.
Granted, most people can't do that and get caught up in those opinion phrases such as "this sucks" and "this is lame".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I don't see how Garret Fuller can call himself a unbias reviewer. Art style should always be the last on the check mark list for reviewers especially for MMOs. P2P mmos are few and FAAAARR between so you don't get much choice like you do with console games where one is released every week practically. It's just nott right to do that. Game play is always the key aspect when I look at the game. If I'm playing a game with hello kitty art style and I'm shoving a giant pink hammer down some one's throat the last thing I would be worried about is the art because as long as the game play is fun and the balance is there I wouldn't care about art.
Me being a artistic person myself I do definetly have my preferences but to say that just because a game isn't dark enough or pretty enough is the reason for me not playing it then I shouldn't be suggesting games to any one or giving any kinda insight.
Although I'm not saying he's wrong that there aren't people like that. I just believe that a person who feels that strongly about art work shouldn't be in the reviewing industry. Makes it hard to believe what the person is saying, many games with bad graphics or style that is mimiced are over looked because of this carelessness and turn out to be a great game.
It is naive to think that any one of the persons who review games isn't biased. Everyone is biased in some manner. That's human nature. To think that someone has ever given you an unbiased review of something is, well, wishful thinking. The goal is to refine your own radar such that you can filter out the opinion statements and collect the facts. From those facts you can then forumlate your own opinions and whether you would like something or not.
Granted, most people can't do that and get caught up in those opinion phrases such as "this sucks" and "this is lame".
You're preaching to the choir. I just believe that regardless of how biased a review is it is pretty weak to base your decision on how good a game is depending on the art style. I'm not trying to defend any game here, I've actually paused any type of MMO gaming for the whole year.
Art style is of great importance no matter what the subject. Be it a movie, MMO, Comic/Manga Book (Graphic Novel), and so on. So if this is so important, why do all the artists get shit pay and almost always get chopped or rushed when making these games.
I mean look at the Diablo III artist that dared to bring the game into another timeline of the world. It makes me wonder, what would happen if Michelangelo, Filippo Lippi, Titian, or Jean Clouet had the ability to debate about this.
I am sure after much debate they would conclude it depends upon the medium you're going to use, in what style, in what colour style, etc. etc. etc.
I think the problem lies with two sides of the coin: 1. the Publisher for interfering, 2. The Devs wanting everything and everyone as the audience. Go back to school and figure out "which" set of aspects to include.
I too love anime and other western styles, but they are only EVER going to be an interest to me in movies or Manga.
I also love (sum) western styles, or as you are refering, THE AMERICAN audience. Now that's all well and good when I watch a movie or read a comicbook.
Yet in the end the writer (or writers) of the story to the world must dictate what the atmosphere and setting is. Without those guidelines the resulting MMO's of late are the result. Pieces of crap that have so many elements from various pieces that it would be like having a Picasso setting with Giger storyline with characters created by Hergé all with the soundtrack from the Sound of Music playing while we are searching for items dropped by the smurfs hidden around the place.
Over the top I admit, but you get the picture, a bizarre one at that. I like what I like and when I strole past the bookshelf at my local store something will catch my eye for good reason.
MMO's need to get back to creating the world and then creating stories to enhance our characters that interact with their world. Without that what choice do we have WoW expansion part 110, or EvE online's mishmash of wallow.
Good god good luck to those wanting something to jump out at them and say, I could be "This" and do "that" within those confines of "THAT" world. Until then I think I'll keep dream of more exciting worlds that could be.....
Art style is of great importance no matter what the subject. Be it a movie, MMO, Comic/Manga Book (Graphic Novel), and so on. So if this is so important, why do all the artists get shit pay and almost always get chopped or rushed when making these games.
I mean look at the Diablo III artist that dared to bring the game into another timeline of the world. It makes me wonder, what would happen if Michelangelo, Filippo Lippi, Titian, or Jean Clouet had the ability to debate about this.
I am sure after much debate they would conclude it depends upon the medium you're going to use, in what style, in what colour style, etc. etc. etc.
I think the problem lies with two sides of the coin: 1. the Publisher for interfering, 2. The Devs wanting everything and everyone as the audience. Go back to school and figure out "which" set of aspects to include.
I too love anime and other western styles, but they are only EVER going to be an interest to me in movies or Manga.
I also love (sum) western styles, or as you are refering, THE AMERICAN audience. Now that's all well and good when I watch a movie or read a comicbook.
Yet in the end the writer (or writers) of the story to the world must dictate what the atmosphere and setting is. Without those guidelines the resulting MMO's of late are the result. Pieces of crap that have so many elements from various pieces that it would be like having a Picasso setting with Giger storyline with characters created by Hergé all with the soundtrack from the Sound of Music playing while we are searching for items dropped by the smurfs hidden around the place.
Over the top I admit, but you get the picture, a bizarre one at that. I like what I like and when I strole past the bookshelf at my local store something will catch my eye for good reason.
MMO's need to get back to creating the world and then creating stories to enhance our characters that interact with their world. Without that what choice do we have WoW expansion part 110, or EvE online's mishmash of wallow.
Good god good luck to those wanting something to jump out at them and say, I could be "This" and do "that" within those confines of "THAT" world. Until then I think I'll keep dream of more exciting worlds that could be.....
To me games aren't a form of art. They are entertainment, if they are not entertaining then they are boring. It could have the greatest artists in the world unite to make a something so amazing that it would make men cry and angels sing out; and I still wouldn't play it if it was crappy game play.
This was never a problem in the 90's people played MUDs, and NES games came from all over with different types of art styles and thousands of people played them and the last thing they mentioned was the art style. When pong was released I didn't remember people grudging about how it wasn't western enough or eastern enough. It was game with a ball and two paddles it was fun so it did its job.
I think this is one of those subjects where people constantly argue whether a game is a form of art or just a entertainment. Personally I don't see games as a form of art. It does help yes but there have been dozens of games with horrible art style ( literally stickman ) that have been hailed as a great games by many just because of the game play value and entertainment.
Also I wanted to go into the subject where you talk about writing is more important then game play and features. I believe it is the opposite, game play and features should always come first and then build around it with a story and art style. Story believe it or not holds back a game from progressing into something better or mutating into something different. That is the problem with IP and franchises is that if you have to work by rules then you can make great potential out of your product. You have to come up with excuses and flimsy work arounds to achieve what you want in order to serve the fan boys.
I don't see how Garret Fuller can call himself a unbias reviewer. Art style should always be the last on the check mark list for reviewers especially for MMOs. P2P mmos are few and FAAAARR between so you don't get much choice like you do with console games where one is released every week practically. It's just nott right to do that. Game play is always the key aspect when I look at the game. If I'm playing a game with hello kitty art style and I'm shoving a giant pink hammer down some one's throat the last thing I would be worried about is the art because as long as the game play is fun and the balance is there I wouldn't care about art.
Me being a artistic person myself I do definetly have my preferences but to say that just because a game isn't dark enough or pretty enough is the reason for me not playing it then I shouldn't be suggesting games to any one or giving any kinda insight.
Although I'm not saying he's wrong that there aren't people like that. I just believe that a person who feels that strongly about art work shouldn't be in the reviewing industry. Makes it hard to believe what the person is saying, many games with bad graphics or style that is mimiced are over looked because of this carelessness and turn out to be a great game.
It is naive to think that any one of the persons who review games isn't biased. Everyone is biased in some manner. That's human nature. To think that someone has ever given you an unbiased review of something is, well, wishful thinking. The goal is to refine your own radar such that you can filter out the opinion statements and collect the facts. From those facts you can then forumlate your own opinions and whether you would like something or not.
Granted, most people can't do that and get caught up in those opinion phrases such as "this sucks" and "this is lame".
You're preaching to the choir. I just believe that regardless of how biased a review is it is pretty weak to base your decision on how good a game is depending on the art style. I'm not trying to defend any game here, I've actually paused any type of MMO gaming for the whole year.
Cool. I can agree that it's impossible to tell if gameplay is good or not based on art style. That said, if I don't like the art style I'll never know if the gameplay is good as I won't play it. Just like people date and marry people they find attractive, so goes the rest of our existence respectively. If something isn't pleasing to your eye 9 times out of 10 a person won't try it. Gaming is supposed to be entertaining and something visually displeasing creates a huge hurdle to getting that entertainment. A hurdle most people won't jump.
Ok, I need breakfast. Time to go make blueberry muffins, scrambled eggs (w/cheese) and bacon!!!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I don't see how Garret Fuller can call himself a unbias reviewer. Art style should always be the last on the check mark list for reviewers especially for MMOs. P2P mmos are few and FAAAARR between so you don't get much choice like you do with console games where one is released every week practically. It's just nott right to do that. Game play is always the key aspect when I look at the game. If I'm playing a game with hello kitty art style and I'm shoving a giant pink hammer down some one's throat the last thing I would be worried about is the art because as long as the game play is fun and the balance is there I wouldn't care about art.
Me being a artistic person myself I do definetly have my preferences but to say that just because a game isn't dark enough or pretty enough is the reason for me not playing it then I shouldn't be suggesting games to any one or giving any kinda insight.
Although I'm not saying he's wrong that there aren't people like that. I just believe that a person who feels that strongly about art work shouldn't be in the reviewing industry. Makes it hard to believe what the person is saying, many games with bad graphics or style that is mimiced are over looked because of this carelessness and turn out to be a great game.
It is naive to think that any one of the persons who review games isn't biased. Everyone is biased in some manner. That's human nature. To think that someone has ever given you an unbiased review of something is, well, wishful thinking. The goal is to refine your own radar such that you can filter out the opinion statements and collect the facts. From those facts you can then forumlate your own opinions and whether you would like something or not.
Granted, most people can't do that and get caught up in those opinion phrases such as "this sucks" and "this is lame".
You're preaching to the choir. I just believe that regardless of how biased a review is it is pretty weak to base your decision on how good a game is depending on the art style. I'm not trying to defend any game here, I've actually paused any type of MMO gaming for the whole year.
Cool. I can agree that it's impossible to tell if gameplay is good or not based on art style. That said, if I don't like the art style I'll never know if the gameplay is good as I won't play it. Just like people date and marry people they find attractive, so goes the rest of our existence respectively. If something isn't pleasing to your eye 9 times out of 10 a person won't try it. Gaming is supposed to be entertaining and something visually displeasing creates a huge hurdle to getting that entertainment. A hurdle most people won't jump.
Ok, I need breakfast. Time to go make blueberry muffins, scrambled eggs (w/cheese) and bacon!!!
Which is why I'm both upset at this article for re-inforcing it and society. If this wasn't true we wouldn't have the stupidity that is aired every day on TV. As gamers I think people should change this type of "don't judge a book by its cover" mentality because like you said it's only stopping people from realizing what could have been. I believed that gamer's were like me who doesn't disregard a game by the looks but by the game play. Which seems I was wrong since people like Garret exist and even though I try to weed it out I see it all over the net and in some of my friends. "the game is to cartoony" "it's to childish!" I got a few friends to try a game that was anime with some child aspects to it where it had happy blobs and pink bunnies attacking you. After forcing them to try and gave them a goal to reach they turned around and said that it was a great game that it's not what they expected and because of the visuals they would have never played it. This coming from a PVP group, sadly we stopped playing due to cash shop imbalances :P.
Art style is of great importance no matter what the subject. Be it a movie, MMO, Comic/Manga Book (Graphic Novel), and so on. So if this is so important, why do all the artists get shit pay and almost always get chopped or rushed when making these games.
I mean look at the Diablo III artist that dared to bring the game into another timeline of the world. It makes me wonder, what would happen if Michelangelo, Filippo Lippi, Titian, or Jean Clouet had the ability to debate about this.
I am sure after much debate they would conclude it depends upon the medium you're going to use, in what style, in what colour style, etc. etc. etc.
I think the problem lies with two sides of the coin: 1. the Publisher for interfering, 2. The Devs wanting everything and everyone as the audience. Go back to school and figure out "which" set of aspects to include.
I too love anime and other western styles, but they are only EVER going to be an interest to me in movies or Manga.
I also love (sum) western styles, or as you are refering, THE AMERICAN audience. Now that's all well and good when I watch a movie or read a comicbook.
Yet in the end the writer (or writers) of the story to the world must dictate what the atmosphere and setting is. Without those guidelines the resulting MMO's of late are the result. Pieces of crap that have so many elements from various pieces that it would be like having a Picasso setting with Giger storyline with characters created by Hergé all with the soundtrack from the Sound of Music playing while we are searching for items dropped by the smurfs hidden around the place.
Over the top I admit, but you get the picture, a bizarre one at that. I like what I like and when I strole past the bookshelf at my local store something will catch my eye for good reason.
MMO's need to get back to creating the world and then creating stories to enhance our characters that interact with their world. Without that what choice do we have WoW expansion part 110, or EvE online's mishmash of wallow.
Good god good luck to those wanting something to jump out at them and say, I could be "This" and do "that" within those confines of "THAT" world. Until then I think I'll keep dream of more exciting worlds that could be.....
Michelangelo was one of the most difficult commercial artist of the renaissance, he often had arguments with the popes regularly. He only got to argue because he was that good and famous. Same applies true today. Top Talent have power, it is the ones who do average work that have none. reason Mechelangelo was rich is because he was not just and artist he was a business man. He also was heavily into the real-estate market.
I don't see how Garret Fuller can call himself a unbias reviewer. Art style should always be the last on the check mark list for reviewers especially for MMOs. P2P mmos are few and FAAAARR between so you don't get much choice like you do with console games where one is released every week practically. It's just nott right to do that. Game play is always the key aspect when I look at the game. If I'm playing a game with hello kitty art style and I'm shoving a giant pink hammer down some one's throat the last thing I would be worried about is the art because as long as the game play is fun and the balance is there I wouldn't care about art.
Me being a artistic person myself I do definetly have my preferences but to say that just because a game isn't dark enough or pretty enough is the reason for me not playing it then I shouldn't be suggesting games to any one or giving any kinda insight.
Although I'm not saying he's wrong that there aren't people like that. I just believe that a person who feels that strongly about art work shouldn't be in the reviewing industry. Makes it hard to believe what the person is saying, many games with bad graphics or style that is mimiced are over looked because of this carelessness and turn out to be a great game.
It is naive to think that any one of the persons who review games isn't biased. Everyone is biased in some manner. That's human nature. To think that someone has ever given you an unbiased review of something is, well, wishful thinking. The goal is to refine your own radar such that you can filter out the opinion statements and collect the facts. From those facts you can then forumlate your own opinions and whether you would like something or not.
Granted, most people can't do that and get caught up in those opinion phrases such as "this sucks" and "this is lame".
You're preaching to the choir. I just believe that regardless of how biased a review is it is pretty weak to base your decision on how good a game is depending on the art style. I'm not trying to defend any game here, I've actually paused any type of MMO gaming for the whole year.
Cool. I can agree that it's impossible to tell if gameplay is good or not based on art style. That said, if I don't like the art style I'll never know if the gameplay is good as I won't play it. Just like people date and marry people they find attractive, so goes the rest of our existence respectively. If something isn't pleasing to your eye 9 times out of 10 a person won't try it. Gaming is supposed to be entertaining and something visually displeasing creates a huge hurdle to getting that entertainment. A hurdle most people won't jump.
Ok, I need breakfast. Time to go make blueberry muffins, scrambled eggs (w/cheese) and bacon!!!
Which is why I'm both upset at this article for re-inforcing it and society. If this wasn't true we wouldn't have the stupidity that is aired every day on TV. As gamers I think people should change this type of "don't judge a book by its cover" mentality because like you said it's only stopping people from realizing what could have been. I believed that gamer's were like me who doesn't disregard a game by the looks but by the game play. Which seems I was wrong since people like Garret exist and even though I try to weed it out I see it all over the net and in some of my friends. "the game is to cartoony" "it's to childish!" I got a few friends to try a game that was anime with some child aspects to it where it had happy blobs and pink bunnies attacking you. After forcing them to try and gave them a goal to reach they turned around and said that it was a great game that it's not what they expected and because of the visuals they would have never played it. This coming from a PVP group, sadly we stopped playing due to cash shop imbalances :P.
Sorry about the non-reply above. Just wanted to weigh in and say that "video" is the operative word in "video game". If the video looks silly, who cares how the game plays? I'd just as well to play PnP and use my own imagination as to the visuals than be staring at the cookie cutter artwork that is Korean MMOs
Sorry about the non-reply above. Just wanted to weigh in and say that "video" is the operative word in "video game". If the video looks silly, who cares how the game plays? I'd just as well to play PnP and use my own imagination as to the visuals than be staring at the cookie cutter artwork that is Korean MMOs
Well that is what YOU value as art. To me a video game is not art it's entertainment. I'm sorry but I don't believe a game sells on art alone. I highly doubt that you would sit there and play a game that was just the Mona Lisa staring at you for 60 bucks. There have been ton of beautifull games released over the past few years and they have failed MISERABLY. Hmmm I wonder if the game part had anything to do with it.
Plus when you start bringing PnP games, board games and another game in general outside of video games then your talking about a different subject entirely. I'm focusing on Video game MMORPGs.
Obviousely every one has their own presonal prefences so I'm not gonna try and force you to think my way. I'm just trying to point out the weak whole in the gaming community where people think that pretty = great gameplay. When it's obviousely the opposite, with tons of indie games being made successfull with barely any kind of though put into the art and 2-D.
It baffles me why people think this way, makes me feel like I'm the only one on this planet who truely enjoys a game for what it is and not what I want it to be. This is probably the main reason why I decided not to go into game developing because I would probably end up jumping out a 5 story building window trying to bring innovation; only to be shunned because my game wasn't pretty or bloody enough.
I wish people would go back to the days where games were hard ( and I don't mean grinding for 500000 hours ) and people bought strategy books and practiced every day at their favourite game to beat the high score or their friends face in. Maybe I'm delusional and this was just something that me and my friends experienced in our group. I just think it's a sad day when we're judging a game by art 1st and game play last. That's like me judging a beautifull bouqet of flowers but they smelled horrible but atleast they looked better then the moderate bouqet with the enticing allour.
Comments
Why would you possibly give Warhammer Online as the example of western MMOG art direction? It's quite possibly the ugliest MMOG ever made, with the most sparse, dull and unappealing designs that I've ever seen. If it weren't for the horrible PvE and mediocre PvP gameplay, then the absolutely terrible art direction would have killed it.
No, if you want to give a proper example of western art direction. One that is to western art as Aion is to eastern art, then you should mention the likes of Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings Online or The Chronicles of Spellborn. That is proper western art direction and it's right up there with the top eastern-influenced games such as Aion, Guild Wars and Lineage 2.
Both styles can be attractive and neither would be reason for me to not subscribe to a MMOG. As long as the gameplay is solid, then the visuals aren't important.
I don't quite see how TERA is a mixture of western and eastern art direction. It has some less effeminate males and western-ish buildings, but those are the only western influences I've managed to spot. In terms of animation, special effects, armor, weaponry and monster design it is fully eastern. In fact it even has a cutesy playable race and the requisite cutesy monsters to fight against. And that character design is still decidedly eastern, with the females practically ripped straight from the Ikkitousen and Witchblade anime. Not to mention the fact that Aion already featured bulky male characters with its fairly extensive character customization system...
None of that is actually bad, except maybe the cute bits, but it's still decidedly non-western and I wonder what makes some of you think otherwise. It certainly looks great and on track to be an excellent game, but that certainly doesn't make it any more western than the likes of Aion.
Dude, srsly, you have ZERO clue about anime. Naruto, Beserk and Bleach?... Thats just the commercial rubbish that actually manages to come out of Japan.
Aion is too "anime" ??? wtf?? Aion IS NOT ANIME! AT ALL. Asian art, yes! But Anime?... what ARE you smokin?
Your article is based on no factual information and is pure speculation derived from your blind ignorance.
personally, i have love/hate relation with traditional eastern game art. character's are crap. yea, sure, they are well made, but they all look the same. there are some exceptions, but, generally, it feels like clone factory. on other hand, monsters/npc are generally diverse and imaginative.
i'm not that much for total realism or total fantasy, either. each has it's place. drop cliches. embrace diversity. give me fat characters. give me skinny. give me ugly. give me choices.
Some of the articles on this site just have to make you laugh and this is one of them.
I will agree that there can be art style differences between East and West. However, I continue to find the "Aion looks too 'anime'" to be one of the most non-sensical statements I have ever heard about the game.
Given the examples in the article, it seems what you are really trying to say is "I don't like games that visually don't remind me of WoW". I find that sad.
"Eastern Style" MMO character design seems to be more realistic (although often you can find weapons too big to be so), with a real effort to ensure that armor mixes and matches well and looks good on the character. So, maybe you are just threatened by sight of fashionable clothing? Not manly enough for you?
Aion has some major flaws, but IMO character design and over all art direction are not among them.
You aren't the only one to make such a statement, but I have a sound theory about what is really going on in some people's heads. Unfotunately, there is no polite way to share it with out spawning a lot of misunderstandings.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
That last is often a valid criticism of Eastern games, how ever I'd clarify that with Aion, in particular, you can indeed make a character fat, skinny, stout or lithe as a bean stock. You can even make an ugly character, if you want to. I think a lot of people never bothered delving into the individual sliders in Aion's Character Creation and ended up chosing only from the presets.
Playing as an Elyos, it wasn't to infrequent to come across an Asmodian character that was made to look more creature like than human. I guess NCSoft can be faulted, though, for the fact that none of the presets go down that path and they didn't put much effort into making the preset faces as distinct from each other as they should have.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Very interesting article-I can't help but think of Aion and how it is an example of what the OP is talking about. The game developers tried to westernize a successful eastern game and I don't think did a good job of it. Something got lost in the translation.
There is nothing anime in Aion but peoples use the anime word to describe an eastern style of design. Which is stupid.
This is an anime mmorpg.
I just cat stand it if my shoulder armor goes over my head, no one need shoulder pads that are a hundred pounds each.
kevin ripka
Again, Aion is a poor example because you can make yourself look like almost anything. This leads me to believe you have a problem with how someone else looks, which again leads to the whole insecurity thing. The clothing and armor is another issue but even that can be remodeled to look any way you want. When we talk about oversized this and that, the first thing i think of is WoW and not an eastern game.
I prefer western art as I've grown up with it. I make no apologies for my preference and if anyone has an issue with it they need to take a long look at themselves (though honestly if they have such an issue I'm going to make the call that they are incapable of such self reflection and introspective thought). There have been one or three eastern art design games that I have thought looked ok but for the most part it doesn't appeal to me.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
TERA has many western characteristics:
- Human males are totally western style, bulky bearded with males with tanned skin, quiet similiar to WoW ones but with better graphics
- Aman monster races is clearly western, a big horned demon with huge muscles. Baraka race are western styled too
- Most of of the male plate armors have a lot of western influence
Of course there is a lot of eastern incluence cause is a korean game, but it does not look like other eastern games, I can clearly see the mix of artstyles Garrett Fuller is talking about
I don't see how Garret Fuller can call himself a unbias reviewer. Art style should always be the last on the check mark list for reviewers especially for MMOs. P2P mmos are few and FAAAARR between so you don't get much choice like you do with console games where one is released every week practically. It's just nott right to do that. Game play is always the key aspect when I look at the game. If I'm playing a game with hello kitty art style and I'm shoving a giant pink hammer down some one's throat the last thing I would be worried about is the art because as long as the game play is fun and the balance is there I wouldn't care about art.
Me being a artistic person myself I do definetly have my preferences but to say that just because a game isn't dark enough or pretty enough is the reason for me not playing it then I shouldn't be suggesting games to any one or giving any kinda insight.
Although I'm not saying he's wrong that there aren't people like that. I just believe that a person who feels that strongly about art work shouldn't be in the reviewing industry. Makes it hard to believe what the person is saying, many games with bad graphics or style that is mimiced are over looked because of this carelessness and turn out to be a great game.
It is naive to think that any one of the persons who review games isn't biased. Everyone is biased in some manner. That's human nature. To think that someone has ever given you an unbiased review of something is, well, wishful thinking. The goal is to refine your own radar such that you can filter out the opinion statements and collect the facts. From those facts you can then forumlate your own opinions and whether you would like something or not.
Granted, most people can't do that and get caught up in those opinion phrases such as "this sucks" and "this is lame".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
You're preaching to the choir. I just believe that regardless of how biased a review is it is pretty weak to base your decision on how good a game is depending on the art style. I'm not trying to defend any game here, I've actually paused any type of MMO gaming for the whole year.
Art style is of great importance no matter what the subject. Be it a movie, MMO, Comic/Manga Book (Graphic Novel), and so on. So if this is so important, why do all the artists get shit pay and almost always get chopped or rushed when making these games.
I mean look at the Diablo III artist that dared to bring the game into another timeline of the world. It makes me wonder, what would happen if Michelangelo, Filippo Lippi, Titian, or Jean Clouet had the ability to debate about this.
I am sure after much debate they would conclude it depends upon the medium you're going to use, in what style, in what colour style, etc. etc. etc.
I think the problem lies with two sides of the coin: 1. the Publisher for interfering, 2. The Devs wanting everything and everyone as the audience. Go back to school and figure out "which" set of aspects to include.
I too love anime and other western styles, but they are only EVER going to be an interest to me in movies or Manga.
I also love (sum) western styles, or as you are refering, THE AMERICAN audience. Now that's all well and good when I watch a movie or read a comicbook.
Yet in the end the writer (or writers) of the story to the world must dictate what the atmosphere and setting is. Without those guidelines the resulting MMO's of late are the result. Pieces of crap that have so many elements from various pieces that it would be like having a Picasso setting with Giger storyline with characters created by Hergé all with the soundtrack from the Sound of Music playing while we are searching for items dropped by the smurfs hidden around the place.
Over the top I admit, but you get the picture, a bizarre one at that. I like what I like and when I strole past the bookshelf at my local store something will catch my eye for good reason.
MMO's need to get back to creating the world and then creating stories to enhance our characters that interact with their world. Without that what choice do we have WoW expansion part 110, or EvE online's mishmash of wallow.
Good god good luck to those wanting something to jump out at them and say, I could be "This" and do "that" within those confines of "THAT" world. Until then I think I'll keep dream of more exciting worlds that could be.....
To me games aren't a form of art. They are entertainment, if they are not entertaining then they are boring. It could have the greatest artists in the world unite to make a something so amazing that it would make men cry and angels sing out; and I still wouldn't play it if it was crappy game play.
This was never a problem in the 90's people played MUDs, and NES games came from all over with different types of art styles and thousands of people played them and the last thing they mentioned was the art style. When pong was released I didn't remember people grudging about how it wasn't western enough or eastern enough. It was game with a ball and two paddles it was fun so it did its job.
I think this is one of those subjects where people constantly argue whether a game is a form of art or just a entertainment. Personally I don't see games as a form of art. It does help yes but there have been dozens of games with horrible art style ( literally stickman ) that have been hailed as a great games by many just because of the game play value and entertainment.
Also I wanted to go into the subject where you talk about writing is more important then game play and features. I believe it is the opposite, game play and features should always come first and then build around it with a story and art style. Story believe it or not holds back a game from progressing into something better or mutating into something different. That is the problem with IP and franchises is that if you have to work by rules then you can make great potential out of your product. You have to come up with excuses and flimsy work arounds to achieve what you want in order to serve the fan boys.
Cool. I can agree that it's impossible to tell if gameplay is good or not based on art style. That said, if I don't like the art style I'll never know if the gameplay is good as I won't play it. Just like people date and marry people they find attractive, so goes the rest of our existence respectively. If something isn't pleasing to your eye 9 times out of 10 a person won't try it. Gaming is supposed to be entertaining and something visually displeasing creates a huge hurdle to getting that entertainment. A hurdle most people won't jump.
Ok, I need breakfast. Time to go make blueberry muffins, scrambled eggs (w/cheese) and bacon!!!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Which is why I'm both upset at this article for re-inforcing it and society. If this wasn't true we wouldn't have the stupidity that is aired every day on TV. As gamers I think people should change this type of "don't judge a book by its cover" mentality because like you said it's only stopping people from realizing what could have been. I believed that gamer's were like me who doesn't disregard a game by the looks but by the game play. Which seems I was wrong since people like Garret exist and even though I try to weed it out I see it all over the net and in some of my friends. "the game is to cartoony" "it's to childish!" I got a few friends to try a game that was anime with some child aspects to it where it had happy blobs and pink bunnies attacking you. After forcing them to try and gave them a goal to reach they turned around and said that it was a great game that it's not what they expected and because of the visuals they would have never played it. This coming from a PVP group, sadly we stopped playing due to cash shop imbalances :P.
Michelangelo was one of the most difficult commercial artist of the renaissance, he often had arguments with the popes regularly. He only got to argue because he was that good and famous. Same applies true today. Top Talent have power, it is the ones who do average work that have none. reason Mechelangelo was rich is because he was not just and artist he was a business man. He also was heavily into the real-estate market.
Poor Garrett, lol.
Hope it didnt hurt to much when rollen01 nailed you to that cross for having a preference and a opinion.
Next time just go hang out with Justin at the arcade.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Sorry about the non-reply above. Just wanted to weigh in and say that "video" is the operative word in "video game". If the video looks silly, who cares how the game plays? I'd just as well to play PnP and use my own imagination as to the visuals than be staring at the cookie cutter artwork that is Korean MMOs
Well that is what YOU value as art. To me a video game is not art it's entertainment. I'm sorry but I don't believe a game sells on art alone. I highly doubt that you would sit there and play a game that was just the Mona Lisa staring at you for 60 bucks. There have been ton of beautifull games released over the past few years and they have failed MISERABLY. Hmmm I wonder if the game part had anything to do with it.
Plus when you start bringing PnP games, board games and another game in general outside of video games then your talking about a different subject entirely. I'm focusing on Video game MMORPGs.
Obviousely every one has their own presonal prefences so I'm not gonna try and force you to think my way. I'm just trying to point out the weak whole in the gaming community where people think that pretty = great gameplay. When it's obviousely the opposite, with tons of indie games being made successfull with barely any kind of though put into the art and 2-D.
It baffles me why people think this way, makes me feel like I'm the only one on this planet who truely enjoys a game for what it is and not what I want it to be. This is probably the main reason why I decided not to go into game developing because I would probably end up jumping out a 5 story building window trying to bring innovation; only to be shunned because my game wasn't pretty or bloody enough.
I wish people would go back to the days where games were hard ( and I don't mean grinding for 500000 hours ) and people bought strategy books and practiced every day at their favourite game to beat the high score or their friends face in. Maybe I'm delusional and this was just something that me and my friends experienced in our group. I just think it's a sad day when we're judging a game by art 1st and game play last. That's like me judging a beautifull bouqet of flowers but they smelled horrible but atleast they looked better then the moderate bouqet with the enticing allour.