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Massive Singleplayer Online RPG

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  • alakramalakram Member UncommonPosts: 2,301

    Originally posted by zohnny

      well im enjoying elder scrolls 4 oblivion on xbox 360 so much and got an idea.  why not make a AAA MSORPG for pc? something of the quality of oblivion and higher. look at all the things you cant do in a mmorpg because of hurdles for the devs. so many things that wont work and cant be done because you have so many people running around. people cry about instancing and not being able to find groups and so on. why not make a massive single player online game? im having fun being a thief for instance. stealing, picking locks, breaking into places, joining a secret guild. assasins are fun too. you really cant do that stuff in a mmorpg. i know people will say you can in ultima online but its not the same.

      imagine an entire world to explore. where anything is possible for every play style. an ever growing world. not just a few dlc patches but huge updates that add more cities, ruins, castles, regions you name it. a game where exploration goes as far as you want it to. crafting could have total depth. do things that really do change the world. a game with so much to do that in 5 years you still havent done everything.

      i know bethesda is making an elder scrolls mmorpg. but why not a single player online game? i know im using oblivion as a basis but im just trying to get the idea through. compare a massive single player online game to our current mmorpg games in terms of what can and cant be done. in a mmorpg theres tons of limits and stuff you cant do. in a massive single player online rpg the only thing you cant do is play with other players. i think hirelings could work for boss monsters (im just sayin).

      man a huge world with all the themes like asian, viking, medieval, tribal, etc.  style settings, deserts, wastelands, hills and grasslands, jungles, forests, mountains where you can actually use tools to scale cliffs, an underworld, other dimensions, continents, ships you can sail i mean the possibilities are endless.

      if done right i would pay $14.99 per month. theres nothing wrong with not being a massively multiplayer online rpg. single player could be just as fun.

    I prefer massively multiplayer, but I will probably pay for something like this with a good game like oblivion.

    Edit: As I understand what you think about is: buy the game then pay a monthly subcription to have the game monthly updated. That means the developers update the game almost everyday, or atleast once a week with new single player content. Mmmm it really sounds good if well made.



  • alakramalakram Member UncommonPosts: 2,301

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Kaneth: Hellgate London tried something similar, not as good as your suggestion but still not that far. It didn't work that well.

    As for Elder scrolls online have Bethesda hired people for a MMO department the last 2 years so they are making something. Whatever it is Fallout, ES or something else is however not known at this time even though speculations and the mess with Interplay points to a fallout game. Maybe they are working on both, maybe none.

    While I like the exploration in the ES games (particularly Daggerfall) am I not a fan of a solo MMO. I don't really see the point of that, but some elements from these games could be added in MMOs with good results.

    What about that? With the resources for 2 online games they are developing 1 mmo core engine, I mean database access, network systems, developer software, graphics software, and then spliting the resources on the 2 diferent mmos, in graphics, sound, story design and all the rest? Sounds smart.



  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by alakram

    What about that? With the resources for 2 online games they are developing 1 mmo core engine, I mean database access, network systems, developer software, graphics software, and then spliting the resources on the 2 diferent mmos, in graphics, sound, story design and all the rest? Sounds smart.

    Smart in the Cryptic sense?

    They haven't made an MMO before, and they're going to make two at the same time?

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by alakram

    I prefer massively multiplayer, but I will probably pay for something like this with a good game like oblivion.

    Edit: As I understand what you think about is: buy the game then pay a monthly subcription to have the game monthly updated. That means the developers update the game almost everyday, or atleast once a week with new single player content. Mmmm it really sounds good if well made.

    Buy into that model, and the games at release will be buggier and less complete than anything seen previously.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Member Posts: 2,096

    Funny to see this thread.....I just knocked out the rest of the  1250 gamerscore for Oblivion this past week on 360. While playing I was thinking "Man...I wish BW games had as many content spots as Oblivion.".

     

    Getting the Dark Brotherhood, Arena, Thief, Warrior, and Mage guild acheivements took forever....and was pretty good content(although I missed the BW touch with the voice actors). Other than Patrick Stewart at beginning of game, I found most voice actors bland.

     

    Got several other games I wanna knock a few points out on(RDR, Alan Wake, and a couple others), then I intend to get all 1550 pts for Fallout 3. Think I have 4 acheivements currently.

     

    There was a thread by a Sparty the other day talking about MMOs on console, I think the OP idea would fit well with it. As I went back to consoles due to health in 06, I would probably enjoy a SPRPG that you could keep playing.

     

    Have played thru Risen(cept end...game bugged...didnt have old enough save), DAO:Awakenings, Last Remnant,  Magnacarta 2,  and Oblivion this yr alone. Currently knocking out achievements on Sacred 2. Would be nice if your fave games could have indefinite life thanks to ongoing flow of new content.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • DaywolfDaywolf Member Posts: 749

    Originally posted by alakram

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Kaneth: Hellgate London tried something similar, not as good as your suggestion but still not that far. It didn't work that well.

    As for Elder scrolls online have Bethesda hired people for a MMO department the last 2 years so they are making something. Whatever it is Fallout, ES or something else is however not known at this time even though speculations and the mess with Interplay points to a fallout game. Maybe they are working on both, maybe none.

    While I like the exploration in the ES games (particularly Daggerfall) am I not a fan of a solo MMO. I don't really see the point of that, but some elements from these games could be added in MMOs with good results.

    What about that? With the resources for 2 online games they are developing 1 mmo core engine, I mean database access, network systems, developer software, graphics software, and then spliting the resources on the 2 diferent mmos, in graphics, sound, story design and all the rest? Sounds smart.

    They already licensed out the fallout mmo to Interplay. It was already announced that beta is in 2011. It looks like they were pushed to put out some public info after a court battle, as Bethesda didn't like them sitting on the IP and keeping silent for over two years (from the transcripts). Bethesda wanted royalties from a hot release of fallout, not an old cold devalued release. But yes, Bethesda's mmo company, in the same local, hired devs from DAoC, UO, SWG etc some time back and have been concocting some formula under their mmo company, Zenimax, for an existing Bethesda IP game, unspecified.

    M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demo’s & indie alpha's.

  • FusionFusion Member UncommonPosts: 1,398

    There is some MMO cooking behind the doors of bethesda, what, i do not know, but it's in the works, i've seen them hiring MMO specific people on their site.

    http://neocron-game.com/ - now totally F2P no cash-shops or micro transactions at all.
  • uquipuuquipu Member Posts: 1,516


    Originally posted by zohnny
    i know bethesda is making an elder scrolls mmorpg. but why not a single player online game? i know im using oblivion as a basis but im just trying to get the idea through. compare a massive single player online game to our current mmorpg games

    .
    OP, you can do this right now.
    .
    1. Find a bunch of elder scrolls players
    .
    2. Get a chat room. Maybe even an instant messenger.
    .
    Sounds like that's all you're missing.

    Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    Originally posted by uquipu

     




    Originally posted by zohnny

    i know bethesda is making an elder scrolls mmorpg. but why not a single player online game? i know im using oblivion as a basis but im just trying to get the idea through. compare a massive single player online game to our current mmorpg games






    .

    OP, you can do this right now.

    .

    1. Find a bunch of elder scrolls players

    .

    2. Get a chat room. Maybe even an instant messenger.

    .

    Sounds like that's all you're missing.

     

    This.

     

    If you want to play a single-player game and just have people to talk to about it, you don't really need a built-in chat system, just fire up a chat or voice program, game's forums and off you go - single-player game with massive amount of people playing it.  

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  • EchobeEchobe Member Posts: 262

    Calling a multi-player Oblivion an MMO would be like calling Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 an MMO. MMO's are supposed to be persistent, online, virtual worlds, not just one landmass where a group of friends wander around amidst ugly-ass NPCs.

  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Member RarePosts: 1,861

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by alakram

    I prefer massively multiplayer, but I will probably pay for something like this with a good game like oblivion.

    Edit: As I understand what you think about is: buy the game then pay a monthly subcription to have the game monthly updated. That means the developers update the game almost everyday, or atleast once a week with new single player content. Mmmm it really sounds good if well made.

    Buy into that model, and the games at release will be buggier and less complete than anything seen previously.

     I don't know about "buggier" but the "less complete" part hits right in the center of the bullseye.  Haven't we already begun to see this with downloadable content?  They release a game but withhold parts of the content which are already finished just so they can sell it later for additional money.  It's similar to what the producers of various food products do when they cut back on the amount of product in their packages but keep charging the same price.  Eventually you have to pay twice the money to get the same amount of product.

    Sometimes the gullibility of people amazes me.  Now we have people actually asking to be charged a monthly subscription fee to play singleplayer games.  Let's just put this into perspective a bit shall we?  This would be like buying a Monopoly board game and then paying a monthly fee to Parker Brothers for the privelage of playing the game you already bought.  Oh, but you get additional stuff for your fee.  Yeah, all that means is that they withheld half of the community chest cards and all of the hotels and now they dole them out to you in dribs and drabs over the course of months or years while they rake in your monthly fees.

    If you care about your games you better hope this idea never catches on and becomes standard because the companies would want to make you feel like you need to pay that subscription fee and that means they would give you very short and bare-bones games for you initial purchase and string you along as long as possible by dribbling out the rest of the game to you over time while sucking up your fees.

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,413

    It's funny that all the things I used to enjoy from MMOs (open playspace, skill based advancement, crafting, non-linear progression, towns, non-combat play, etc.) I can't find in MMOs anymore, but I can find in single player RPGs.

    And it's double funny that all the things that drove me away from single player RPGs back in the 90's (repetitive gameplay, shallow options, linear advancement, limited replayability), are the things that are driving me away from MMOs today.

    I'm convinced that the MMO industry has no idea how to design games anymore.  Frankly, I'm kind of afraid of what might happen if the single player RPG franchises I enjoy go the MMO route.  Chances are, they'll dumb down the gameplay, put in item shops, charge way too much money for too little game, and take away all the good elements that action/adventure RPGs have developed.

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  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Kaneth: Hellgate London tried something similar, not as good as your suggestion but still not that far. It didn't work that well.

    True, but Hellgate was a crap game, designed by someone who has proven himself to be a hack, Roper.

    I've always felt that an online verison of something along the lines of NWN would be a good too. Kind of falling into the same spirit of a single player online rpg, where you have the main game and all of the quests that were designed and created by the developer. At that point user created content would take over, much like the persistent worlds that were created using NWN.

    A monthly sub would allow you access to tools for designing your own adventures. Think if you were allowed a space the size of the barrens in WoW (a pretty large zone), you could actually do quite a bit with it.

    A couple of years back, Turbine mentioned that user generated content is part of the future for mmos. I honestly think that user generated content could be the next major evolutionary step for mmos. It's a slippery slope in terms of balacing the game though. It opens the door for all sorts of new types of exploitation, but I'm certain a collective of like minded inviduals could come up with a solution.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    Originally posted by Kaneth

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Kaneth: Hellgate London tried something similar, not as good as your suggestion but still not that far. It didn't work that well.

    True, but Hellgate was a crap game, designed by someone who has proven himself to be a hack, Roper.

    I've always felt that an online verison of something along the lines of NWN would be a good too. Kind of falling into the same spirit of a single player online rpg, where you have the main game and all of the quests that were designed and created by the developer. At that point user created content would take over, much like the persistent worlds that were created using NWN.

    A monthly sub would allow you access to tools for designing your own adventures. Think if you were allowed a space the size of the barrens in WoW (a pretty large zone), you could actually do quite a bit with it.

    A couple of years back, Turbine mentioned that user generated content is part of the future for mmos. I honestly think that user generated content could be the next major evolutionary step for mmos. It's a slippery slope in terms of balacing the game though. It opens the door for all sorts of new types of exploitation, but I'm certain a collective of like minded inviduals could come up with a solution.

     Hellgate was not a crap game. People kept on thinking that it was Diablo 3. Hellgate suffered because Flagship Studious had no money and made poor business decisions. Roper isn;t a hack, he just isn't a CEO.

    30
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,963

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by d0dulk0


    Originally posted by zohnny

    btw when i say massive single player online game the "massive" part means the size of the world the game is set in.

    and what does the "online" mean when you cant play with other people

    My thought excactly. Why on earth would it need to be online if you are playing only by yourself? It sounds like an oxymoron to me.

    If you want to pay a monthly fee for added content that is one thing but the online part I dont get.

    Besides isn't Guild Wars pretty much like that? Towns as player hubs and everything else pretty much private?

    For me the whole idea sounds like a step backwards. The future is to interact with other people through the Internet, not isolate yourself. That is the past.

    Well that's a very good point, I suppose it wouldn't be online.

    I don't see the future as necessarily having to interact with people but giving people choice how they interact. Because let's face it, we are all different and half of us would hate the other half if we all were put into a giant room together.

    Guild Wars is sort of like this but not. I mean, they have essentially stopped with major expansioins though I believe they are going to release (if they haven't already) another mini-expansion.

    Mods are great but sometimes they aren't. I realize that there are bugs in pro content as well but at least with the pro content it seems pretty congruent in desing and quality to what went before.

    I have several adventure mods in oblivion and though some of the game play and story elements are clearly pro, excellent, you fill in the blank, there are so many things that seem very rushed, amateur, sloppy, etc.

    On top of that, it seems that there are only so many mods that oblivion can take before it starts having issues.

    I literally can't shut my game down properly becuase of all the mods I have. A larger more expansive game would have many times more and so the designers would have to address this issue. I think Oblvion has something called game bloat? Seems that it affects saving and crashing on saving.

    In any case I would love a game that was like oblvion that was slated to go on years beyond its release that would add content that I could download for a reasonable price.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251

    I honestly don't see what's really different about this idea.  You have a game world like Oblivion's, but add some online multiplayer  support (which can be done through say Xbox live), allow downloadable content and expansions just like Oblivion and Dragon Age do...

    I personally wouldn't pay a sub fee for something like that when past games have done similar things while only having to buy the box (and maybe pay for online support if it's a console game - but that works for any online supported game).

  • zeowyrmzeowyrm Member Posts: 746

    So, what, like Demon's Souls on the PS3?  Single player, for the most part, but with occasional interaction and leftover remnants from other players?

  • fudi84fudi84 Member Posts: 7

    Check Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii, Singleplayer and Multiplayer walking perfectly hand in hand.

    I got 150h playtime and my friend about 400h now, thats amazing for a console game.

    For me, the best consol rpg ever

  • HeyMarceHeyMarce Member UncommonPosts: 86

    Yes, We re waiting an Oblivion Online.

  • DhaemanDhaeman Member Posts: 531

    This is a funny topic because I just wrote an article regarding the merits of heaping DLC and expansions onto single player games and it's cost vs. a typical MMO.

    Anyway, I'd like to see another company expound on what Demon's Souls did. The game is single player for the most part but there are messages people can leave for everyone to see and it's possible to join other players' games. Other players can also affect the dark/light balance on your world. I'd like to see a world where there isn't as much direction interaction but plenty of indirect interaction. For example, market prices could be dictated based on where and what players buy. Players could receive a quest to kill a player that has been terrorizing the city (but in your game he's an NPC that happens to have the name of somebody else playing). And at special points in the game you are allowed to group up with a small number of players for some of the more epic quests. Anything to add more dynamic play would be really interesting, especially in an open world. 

    I think if the company added content every month and ran storyline events that changed based on a combo of what all of the players in other did AND what you individually did then they could charge $5-10/month for this.

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by Kaneth


    Originally posted by Loke666

    Kaneth: Hellgate London tried something similar, not as good as your suggestion but still not that far. It didn't work that well.

    True, but Hellgate was a crap game, designed by someone who has proven himself to be a hack, Roper.

    I've always felt that an online verison of something along the lines of NWN would be a good too. Kind of falling into the same spirit of a single player online rpg, where you have the main game and all of the quests that were designed and created by the developer. At that point user created content would take over, much like the persistent worlds that were created using NWN.

    A monthly sub would allow you access to tools for designing your own adventures. Think if you were allowed a space the size of the barrens in WoW (a pretty large zone), you could actually do quite a bit with it.

    A couple of years back, Turbine mentioned that user generated content is part of the future for mmos. I honestly think that user generated content could be the next major evolutionary step for mmos. It's a slippery slope in terms of balacing the game though. It opens the door for all sorts of new types of exploitation, but I'm certain a collective of like minded inviduals could come up with a solution.

     Hellgate was not a crap game. People kept on thinking that it was Diablo 3. Hellgate suffered because Flagship Studious had no money and made poor business decisions. Roper isn;t a hack, he just isn't a CEO.

    I dunno, Roper's latest foray's into the mmorpg world, along side with Cryptic, has proven to me that he is a flash-in-the-pan, and still continues to make poor decisions. Roper has lost a lot of credability with many gamers with his adventures with Flagship and Cryptic. Hellgate might have proven itself to be a better game, if it was given a real chance, but it's basically a fading memory and labeled as another failure.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,963

    Originally posted by KinePs3

    Yes, We re waiting an Oblivion Online.

    hmmm.

    Well, I suppose you are right.

    Though that's a mixed bag for me. I mean, I love their world and I love the gameplay. Not sure how they would do if "if" they are working on one but it could be anything from a guilwars type setup where people meet in hubs and then go into an instanced world to your standard mmo but with a twist(s) like what SWToR is doing.

    Thing is, most of the mods that I have downloaded either take care of the easy combat, the everything scales to you issue and of course cosmetic races (hair, better faces and textures) and equipment.

    I don't use any vanilla equipment at all except for the jewelery.

    I just don't like them for the most part.

    So I imagine that I will have to ignore the art design very much like I ignore LOTRO's art design.

    "If" they are working on an Elder Scrolls Online game.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • DaywolfDaywolf Member Posts: 749

    Originally posted by KinePs3

    Yes, We re waiting an Oblivion Online.

    I really do not think it'll be an "Oblivion" online. If they are doing it, working on it this moment, it'll be Elder Scrolls: "______". However, I would hope that they do an mmo in the 4th age, and probably will since they progress each game release, as it would leave open the possibility for a large persistent player population. Maybe visit locations from the 3rd age as covered in Oblivion. Oblivion was the close of the 3rd age and has it's own story that ads historically to the next age. Maybe that is what the op is thinking, that we will just get some multiplayer version of the same thing, same content etc. It'll be different, just like Oblivion was different to Morrowind.

     

    M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demo’s & indie alpha's.

  • zohnnyzohnny Member UncommonPosts: 45

    some people just dont get it. they are so hooked on including the "multiplayer" part of an online game. i was just using oblivion as a basis for what idea i had. imagine a full blown mmo game minus the multiplayer part. someone said it would be a waste to pay for expansions and content in a single player online game. thats dumb because we do that for "multiplayer" online games. i was also saying think of the possibilities of features and content for a single player online game. imagine if there was an oblivion mmo. it would have less features than an oblivion offline game. can you imagine 1000's of players running by you or being afk right next to the door you are trying to stealth at and picklock? it couldnt happen. plus 1000's of people standing at the same door trying to pick it. lame. that all would call for instancing which would so take away from the immersion.

    so just imagine a full blown constantly developed growing mmorpg game with all the features and support of content and expansions but minus the multiplayer part. thats all i was saying. some people just cant get past the "without multiplayer" part. and btw servers for the "online" part do more than just hold people for multiplayer. the servers we all play on in mmorpg games hold lots of stuff for the game. 

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759

    Originally posted by zohnny

    some people just dont get it. they are so hooked on including the "multiplayer" part of an online game. i was just using oblivion as a basis for what idea i had. imagine a full blown mmo game minus the multiplayer part. someone said it would be a waste to pay for expansions and content in a single player online game. thats dumb because we do that for "multiplayer" online games. i was also saying think of the possibilities of features and content for a single player online game. imagine if there was an oblivion mmo. it would have less features than an oblivion offline game. can you imagine 1000's of players running by you or being afk right next to the door you are trying to stealth at and picklock? it couldnt happen. plus 1000's of people standing at the same door trying to pick it. lame. that all would call for instancing which would so take away from the immersion.

    so just imagine a full blown constantly developed growing mmorpg game with all the features and support of content and expansions but minus the multiplayer part. thats all i was saying. some people just cant get past the "without multiplayer" part. and btw servers for the "online" part do more than just hold people for multiplayer. the servers we all play on in mmorpg games hold lots of stuff for the game. 

     So basically... make Oblivion for the console... again. I played Oblivion on the 360, and it's got basically what you seem to be getting at... it's single player with achievements that can be viewed by others online, and has downloadable content.

    Unless im completely missing something here, isn't that pretty much the gist of what you're saying? Completely single-player, but with stuff like expansions/updates that are downloadable, perhaps some stuff that people can see about eachother online but without actually playing together. Not sure about the PC version of Oblivion, but console version already has that, as well as patches/bug fixes which get downloaded to the console too.

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