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Man Final Fantasy 13 is so crap.

2

Comments

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035

    Mario 2 was a game called Doki Doki Panic that they slapped Mario into at the last minute. Final Fantasy has gone the route it has on purpose, can't say why, but I have to admit at least the production values are getting better in each version.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

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  • MiffyMiffy Member Posts: 244

    They need to streamline the turned based combat because you run into a crowd of enemies and have to wait ages for it to load into battle. What they need to do is seamlessly put you into battle instantly. It's like Pokemon where you have to go through the same load process and navigating through slow menus in fights. Every time they bring out a new pokemon it asks you if you want to change and the text goes slow. 

    Japanese games just seem to go in the wrong direction and instead of making the game more fun to play, they keep all the annoying stuff and get rid of the stuff that gave the game depth.

  • Frostbite05Frostbite05 Member Posts: 1,880

    Originally posted by Rednecksith

    FF8 killed the franchise for me. Crappy characters, crappy dialogue, crappy gameplay, crappy story... the whole game was just a festering pile of shit. Unfortunately, this trend has continued ever since.

    I don't know how Squeenix lost it, but they sure as hell did. They went from one of my most respected dev houses to one which I hold in absolute contempt. It's like they don't even try any more, they just crank out some garbage, slap an FF logo on it, and watch the fanboys devour it.

    strange because most say it is one of the top Final Fantasy Games.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    Originally posted by Miffy

    Japanese games just seem to go in the wrong direction and instead of making the game more fun to play, they keep all the annoying stuff and get rid of the stuff that gave the game depth.

    Hahaha

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335

    Long time FF fan here. I even touted how great FF13 was on launch day. 2 weeks later I took the game to gamestop and traded it in after having hit chapter 11 and reading some spoilers online. Basically the whole first 30+ hours is a story on rails. A pretty one at that, and not horribly acted. But I wanted more from my game. I wanted open world, sidequests all throughout, mini games galore. Basically along the lines of FF8 and FF7 my 2 top FF favorites.

    Sadly the game doesn't offer this and any side questing is actually offered to be completed AFTER the main story is over. Which I don't understand at all. I have to admit, I don't even care that I didn't finish this game. It just didn't grab me gameplay wise. Matter of fact FF10 lost me as well. It seems they are sacrificing gameplay to throw in more story and more graphics than anything else and that's not the way the series should be.

    I also think that possibly, all the great developers of the earlier FF games have been working on the online installments. Because FF11 rocks and has that same feel as the old ones and FF14 looks to be the same. Even the music composer is more known for the old games (up to 10) and the online games than any of the newer ones(10-13). I could be wrong on this though, or maybe it's just when FF10 hit, the head of the series moved on or was told to change it up?

    Anyway, here is my order of best to worst in the FF7 and up series.

    FF8, FF7, FF9, FF10, FF13, FF12

    I didn't add FF11, since it's an MMO and FF12 is last becaue it was complete and utter malarkey. I couldn't relate to the story in any way. Kind of like the prequels to Star Wars. Just a bunch of political high society BS.

    wow....this turned into a large rant. Sorry about that. Enjoy your day ;D

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

     

    FF fans are the second worst thing to inhabit earth, right after console fanboys and Teen Wolves.

    However, it's interesting to see how retarded can a fanbase get after 20+ years. I should do a research about this.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • EdliEdli Member Posts: 941

    Every ff is going the same route. The same (story on rail) could be said for FFX although I didn't mind it that much. The world would be open to explore right before the final area.

    The biggest disappointment was FFXII. All that space pirate thing and those flying ships I saw in the trailers really sparked my imagination. I thought they would bring back the world map with a ship to fly everywhere you wanted like in those classic ff but no. That space pirate was only the imagination of an adolescent guy and I never experienced it. The only moment you get the ship is right before the end too and you can't do much with it anyway.

    As for FFXIII I've never played it. Never understood the hatred SE have for pc.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    Those who care about open world are playing the wrong series.

    They should stop shitting up the games for those who prefer less freedom for better storytelling.

    FF has always been on-rails. Go from point A to B to C to D. Right from the very first FF's. Now that they enforce this fact, people who should not be playing this series in the first place are QQ'ing. Annoying as hell.

    Some people prefer it that way. Those who don't can go back to Oblivion and Fallout: New Vegas.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335

    Oblivion and Fallout suck to me. Those are open worlds with no people in them. Boring.

    Every FF up to 10 had an open world. If you disagree, your idea of open world must be different than mine.

    If I can fly my airship to any point on the overworld map, then it's open world. FF style. FF10 changed this and got rid of the overworld/open world aspect and since then FF hasn't been the same.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    Originally posted by elocke

    Oblivion and Fallout suck to me. Those are open worlds with no people in them. Boring.

    Every FF up to 10 had an open world. If you disagree, your idea of open world must be different than mine.

    If I can fly my airship to any point on the overworld map, then it's open world. FF style. FF10 changed this and got rid of the overworld/open world aspect and since then FF hasn't been the same.

    I don't like false sense of freedom. Even though FF's before 10 gave false sense of 'freedom' by giving you a huge area to roam only to make you go to the same NPC to progress in the story in any way. It was pointless.

    At least Oblivion and Fallout give the open world a purpose, and it's not just some damn illusion.

    Not to mention the game being open world hinders the storytelling, which is what Final Fantasy is all about, not the open world like Elder Scrolls series. It was a logical decision from SE to stray away from it to allow for much better pacing of the story.

    It is a hard thing to accept for those who played the games because of their illusion of 'freedom' but it emphasizes what the franchise is all about while removing aspects that it is not, so I can not in any way say the games have become worse. Better, actually. 

    The only problem is that the storytelling should be better. They should get rid of the rest of the old farts like Sakaguchi keeping the franchise from becoming great and let the new guys take over. It's already the case with XIV and it is a positive direction.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • SonikFlashSonikFlash Member UncommonPosts: 561

    your guilty of your own point there tho.  In oblivion you could side quest the hell out of the game, but you still had to run through the motions for the story to advance.  Essentially what were all saying is we like the sense of freedom regardless of how false it is.


  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    How did this become a Elderscrolls vs Final Fantasy thread?

    I thought we were discussing FFXIII and how it compared to the others in the series.

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  • ZookzZookz Member Posts: 244
    The first twenty hours were excruciating. Run down hall, watch very pretty grahpics/angsty teenagers whine, fight boss. Once you reached the open world element none of that really changed. It was mind numbing. By the time the game finally opened up and let me explore I didn't care. The side-quests and missions that have been a part of every FF were nothing more than corridors with bosses at the end. After playing FF12 and loving the openness and scope of things I could do, FF13 was a very shallow and boring experience from start to finish.


    edit: For the folks saying, 'but it gets better after about 20 hours.' That's not a point in the games favor.
  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    Originally posted by SonikFlash

    your guilty of your own point there tho.  In oblivion you could side quest the hell out of the game, but you still had to run through the motions for the story to advance.  Essentially what were all saying is we like the sense of freedom regardless of how false it is.

    There is no "right" way to advance in Oblivion. There is a loose "main" story but that's not the point of the game; the point is to roam around in an open world, doing whatever you want to do. 

    Nobody would play Oblivion just for "story", and for a good reason. It's not that good.

    Same goes for FF, and that is what SE is reinforcing. It's like Bethesda were to make Elder Scrolls 5 which tries to give both open world and good story, and the end result being lackluster story that sacrifices the open world feeling. 

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • teddy_bareteddy_bare Member UncommonPosts: 398

    So, I didn't read the entire thread...just the first and last pages, so if I'm retreading here, I apologize.

    Anyway, I am really kinda digging FFXIII. I readily admit though that the first couple hours were pretty rough, and at first I thought I had also made a mistake buying the game before renting it.

    But, all I kept thinking about was how much I have enjoyed previous FF's, so I kept going and the game got good. It's not until your characters start gaining skill in more then two classes that you really see the beauty, complexity, and strategic depth inherent in what is, imho, easily the best combat system in a jrpg ever, let along the FF series.

    I mean, yeah it is pretty lame that you have to put in so much time until the game "opens up" a bit and you aren't walking through tightly enclosed paths w/ very little possibility for exploration. But until then, the game really isn't that bad, I thought the intricacies of the combat system propped the game up pretty well. And well, once it did open up, it got really good imo. I wouldn't say that it's up there w/ FFVII and FFVII, but it certainly is no FFX-2 or FFXII either.

    I also have to comment on some posts I read in this thread about FFX...while yes, it was the first FF game to eliminate exploration in a sense, it was also one of my favorite FF's. Here is what my take on the "modern" FF games looks like, in order from best to worst:

    FFVII > FFVIII > FFX > FFXIII > FFIX > FFXII > FFX-2

    Seven only beat Eight by the tiniest sliver, and only b/c of it's amazing depth, w/o all the optional stuff off the main storyline in Seven, Eight would've been the better game, but Seven just had so much to do w/ the optional party members and summons to find (Vincent and Knights of the Round ftw), Weapons to take on, not to mention Chocobo breeding. Then there's FFX, which just had just an awesome story and deep characters that it's limited exploration was hardly noticeable. I also think that Blitzball is the best "mini-game" in the whole series (followed closely by Tetra Master in Eight), I loved finding, recruiting, and then fielding the best players for my team, it was almost a game unto itself. FFXIII I covered earlier, and don't even feel like going into the rest, b/c I didn't really enjoy them that much at all.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    The core problem here is that especially the western community seems to have the mindset that Open World is some kind of Holy Grail of gaming and that everyone should strive to be like that.

    There are clear downsides to each way of doing things. You make the game Open World? You sacrifice some things. You make it Linear focused on storytelling? You sacrifice some things.

    The problem with the FF franchise and it's fanbase is that the series tried to be both for a good long while during the 90's (and because there wasn't really anything better around, those who prefer Open ended gameplay played the shit out of PS1 Fantasies and became fans of the series). Although it was always evident that the franchise was never meant to be Open Ended with it's on-rails story and mere illusion of freedom, it still appealed to the crowd that prefers to not be locked in to single path.

    Now that the industry has progressed onwards, making games is not as easy as before and more and more competition has appeared SE chose to focus on the strong points of the franchise while removing the features that didn't quite match. Open World being one of them. This, of course, led to lots of people being disappointed (mainly those who liked the open world aspect of previous games) while those who enjoyed the storytelling got a much more solid experience out of the games (even if the quality of story could use some work). 

    It really divided the fanbase into two groups, and looking at XIII it is evident that it is extremely hard to please both groups while retaining the quality of the series which is getting harder and harder with the competition. Right now they seem to be rotating the games to try to appeal to one group at time, and that might be the best way to do it for now. At least every second game will please both groups, instead of alienating one of them completely. I doubt SE wants that.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • AIMonsterAIMonster Member UncommonPosts: 2,059

    I also enjoyed FFXIII quite a bit.  The newer FF games will never live up to the old ones (VII and lower), but that doesn't mean I didn't think it was an entertaining game.  I actually stop playing FF games past 8 (I didn't have a PS2 or 3) so I'm just going off what I've heard there.  The graphics were absolutely gorgeous, the best I've seen my Xbox spit out (and supposely the graphics are much lower quality than the PS3's) and the story was compelling enough.  The combat had good pacing, but didn't require much input till late in the game (and then it became frantic, fast paced, and exciting).  The big mistake here was the games linearity, I've never seen a RPG game that was so linear before (until Chapter 11 as mentioned) which is just a real letdown.  There was also frequent loading times (didn't Square Enix learn this was a problem from Lost Odyssey?), a lack of things to do outside of combat (where's the minigames that are in almost every SE RPG?), and a really poorly designed irratating character (Vanille).

    Anyway those of you who are a fan of the series, but didn't like 13, SE made a press release that XIII's design was a mistake and they'll be making future FF games differently (I believe they may have said more like games here in the West, but I'm not sure, I'd have to read the articles again).  They seemed to have gotten the message, even though FFXIII isn't considered a bad game at all (83 on metacritic for the PS3 version) most of the points were taken off by critics due to it's extreme linearity.

    To those that hated it, would you have liked it if the entire game was like Chapter 11+  (Open world)?

  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335


    Originally posted by Magnum2103
    I also enjoyed FFXIII quite a bit.  The newer FF games will never live up to the old ones (VII and lower), but that doesn't mean I didn't think it was an entertaining game.  I actually stop playing FF games past 8 (I didn't have a PS2 or 3) so I'm just going off what I've heard there.  The graphics were absolutely gorgeous, the best I've seen my Xbox spit out (and supposely the graphics are much lower quality than the PS3's) and the story was compelling enough.  The combat had good pacing, but didn't require much input till late in the game (and then it became frantic, fast paced, and exciting).  The big mistake here was the games linearity, I've never seen a RPG game that was so linear before (until Chapter 11 as mentioned) which is just a real letdown.  There was also frequent loading times (didn't Square Enix learn this was a problem from Lost Odyssey?), a lack of things to do outside of combat (where's the minigames that are in almost every SE RPG?), and a really poorly designed irratating character (Vanille).
    Anyway those of you who are a fan of the series, but didn't like 13, SE made a press release that XIII's design was a mistake and they'll be making future FF games differently (I believe they may have said more like games here in the West, but I'm not sure, I'd have to read the articles again).  They seemed to have gotten the message, even though FFXIII isn't considered a bad game at all (83 on metacritic for the PS3 version) most of the points were taken off by critics due to it's extreme linearity.
    To those that hated it, would you have liked it if the entire game was like Chapter 11+  (Open world)?

    Yes. Immediately. I don't mind being drawn to cutscenes but give me some freedom in between. the way prior RPGs have done. It needs to be an interactive story, but an interactive world as well. If I look off into the distance and see this cool looking statue or building, I want to go explore it for pete's sake and there better be something there to make the effort worth it. To be honest, I would love to have a game like FFXI be the model for all FF games, including the single player console ones. It just offers so much in things to do while giving me not one but 3 to 4 if not more epic story arcs. On top of little side plots throughout.

    FF13 gave me ONE story and ONE path. On top of that, while I liked the combat at first, the fights at certain points could really use faster pacing and less button mashing between paradigms.

    Now that I think about it, what made FF7 great was each character had his own story for the most part and you could go off and find out more about it. where has that aspect gone? It's been missing for awhile now.

  • HYPERI0NHYPERI0N Member Posts: 3,515

    Let me start by saying the golden rule of games for me is that it shouldnt take hours to get to the fun bit.

    And so goes  my review of FF13

     

    My first FF was no.7 so perhaps i am biassed, but after 7 the standard for me started to go down after 9. In 7 there was a pretty good illusion of freedom with its big map and content to find such as the variouse wepons you had to find and kill and the very rare materia. Also the way easch charecter was given a indervidual story with the chance to find out more about them is something lacking nowadays.

    Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981

  • pureckjpureckj Member Posts: 28

    Agree. Terrible game. Why cant they just build off FF7? That was the best US release !

    Bring back Vanilla WoW pvp

  • spankybusspankybus Member UncommonPosts: 1,367

    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Those who care about open world are playing the wrong series.

    They should stop shitting up the games for those who prefer less freedom for better storytelling.

    FF has always been on-rails. Go from point A to B to C to D. Right from the very first FF's. Now that they enforce this fact, people who should not be playing this series in the first place are QQ'ing. Annoying as hell.

    Some people prefer it that way. Those who don't can go back to Oblivion and Fallout: New Vegas.

    OMG man, FF13 is a smoking hole in the ground, pure crap.

     

    Yes, I am a fan of the series. Wife and I got engaged at the 'Dear Friends' concert in Atlanta. I actually liked 12, even though it was a major deviation from the series. It felt like a serious sequel to 'Vagrant Story'. Hell X-2 wasn't this bad in that it didn't seem to try to take itself too seriously....and it was only loosely on rails by comparison.

     

    However, FFXIII isn't on rails...it's frickin autopilot. While the stories are always linear (even withthe open worlds, you still had to go to point A before B, etc) I least I needed to tell the characters what to do in Combat. Now I simply hold down a single button. I mean, I have a video of my 3 year old son playing this game....successfully. 

     

    The characters are far more retarded that i thought was possible, even for the series that brought you Selphie, Quinna, and Seymor....Hope and Vanille should really be shot...i mean, 'Operation NoRA"!!! FFS and her rolling tra la la through combat while everyone else is getting killed....Snow declaring himself a hero in the most painfully melodramatic way possible!! Characters and Dialog fail....for a game that seems it sole purpose is for me to sit there and hold down one button and watch the story, that's pretty bad.

     

    The last Final Fantasy that required me to press one button to play it was Final Fantasy 7, Advent Children...and it was teh 'Play' button....and while again some of the behavior and characters were absurd, at least it LOOKED awesome enough that I can forgive them.

     

    I am a fan of the series, but not so blinded that I cannot honestly call FFXIII a confused pile of crap. It feels like it was a game that they decided either we rush-finish this and get it out the door or we kill the project.

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  • SynjynSynjyn Member Posts: 25

    10 hours in, terrible game. Storyline sucks, characters suck, dialog is awful, no freedom at all. Just feels like I'm watching a crappy cartoon its so linear. Nothing in the combat system makes me think - wow, thats cool at least.

    Taking it back.

  • GajariGajari Member Posts: 984

    I played about 15 hours maybe and then sold it. Just couldn't bring myself to play it anymore. Too bad, really. 

    But then, I find it really hard to get into turn-based games anymore. The only console games I've been able to get thoroughly engrossed in and have fun playing have been Call of Duty, God of War 3, Dante's Inferno, etc. 

    So I guess maybe I don't have the patience to play long RPG's anymore... unless they're MMO's. 

    My friend bought it and really enjoyed it, and surprisingly the game is a good 50+ hours long, and much longer if you're actually going around looking for everything. I always expect games to be really short lately, because of the amount of resources needed to create them. 

    One thing I don't like about JRPG's anymore is how everything is so overdramatic. The storyline just didn't do anything for me. 

    However I absolutely loved Sazh. He's the only guy I thought was written well, and somewhat realistic, and the only character I could really get into. 

  • ChaosIncChaosInc Member Posts: 112

    I love watching all you guys with the "it's too linear" comments.  Tell me, what do you think 90% of games were before MMOs?  The game was about telling a story, nothing more.

    But not that you crybabies need to worry any more as it sounds like this will be the last console FF game.   After this, you guys can stop worrying about another "crap" game taking away from your WoW time.

    NEWS FLASH! PAYING THE SUB IN F2P = NO DIFFERENCE THAN P2P GAMES!

    Why the hell can't the whiners comprehend this?

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,403

    FFVI was the best in the Final Fantasy series.  Final Fantasy Tactics is up there, but the story line turned out to be very uninspired.  My favorite Square Franchise is SaGa, love the combat system and open ended gameplay.  Pretty much you walk around until something happens.

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