What happened to exploration?

Morgaur

I find it sad that no games anymore are catering towards the explorers out there. I love to just run around and discover things in the world. To find out whats behind the next turn in the road, explore the cave I see up in the mountainside.

The last game that did it, is Vanguard Saga of Heroes. Unfortunately its pretty much dead.

Is it over for us explorers? Do we have anything to look forward to in the future?

Quirhid

It is "exploring" when you do it the first time. Those days are far gone.

terumon

im looking forward to Atlantica online's Troy! a new TBS

grunt187

Two words "fast travel"

SnarlingWolf

My answer to everything that starts with "What happened to....".

 

You're playing the wrong game.

 

 

The mainstream games are designed to do one thing only, bring in the most players that is possible. They do this by making the game widely acceptable to different types of gamers. That involves making it easy to level, easy to get around, easy to learn, and easy to be good.

 

If you want a game with substance you can't play the WoWs and Aions of the world, you have to play the real games that don't have 4 million players in them. That's because those other games are made to target a specific type of gamer and to be incredibly fun. They're not shooting for the #1 spot, they just want to be truly enjoyable.

 

 

So in short, stop playing games like WoW (including WAR and Aion).

MMO_Doubter

Devs love grind - repeating content. You can't grind exploration. Once your character has seen a place, it's explored.

I suppose you could wipe players' maps every month or so, but that would piss off a lot of people.

SnarlingWolf

You should probably try out Asheron's Call. There is no automatic quest journal, there are no exclamation points over people's heads. There is no map that pops up and fills in where the quest gets completed.

 

It is a game where you explore, and as you explore you find people who send you on quests. You have to actually figure out those quests, there is no hand holding (well after the newbie hub there's no hand holding).

MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

My answer to everything that starts with "What happened to....".

 

You're playing the wrong game.

Then you should come up with something worthwhile to say. That is both cliched and unhelpful.

Quirhid

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

My answer to everything that starts with "What happened to....".

 

You're playing the wrong game.

 

 

The mainstream games are designed to do one thing only, bring in the most players that is possible. They do this by making the game widely acceptable to different types of gamers. That involves making it easy to level, easy to get around, easy to learn, and easy to be good.

 

If you want a game with substance you can't play the WoWs and Aions of the world, you have to play the real games that don't have 4 million players in them. That's because those other games are made to target a specific type of gamer and to be incredibly fun. They're not shooting for the #1 spot, they just want to be truly enjoyable.

 

 

So in short, stop playing games like WoW (including WAR and Aion).

Dude, WAR actually rewarded exploration. Maybe you should start paying more attention.

DevilXaphan

There are only a few MMO's that actually reward and have exploration sites built into the game. So it's not tottaly gone you just have to look around for them.

SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

My answer to everything that starts with "What happened to....".

 

You're playing the wrong game.

 

 

The mainstream games are designed to do one thing only, bring in the most players that is possible. They do this by making the game widely acceptable to different types of gamers. That involves making it easy to level, easy to get around, easy to learn, and easy to be good.

 

If you want a game with substance you can't play the WoWs and Aions of the world, you have to play the real games that don't have 4 million players in them. That's because those other games are made to target a specific type of gamer and to be incredibly fun. They're not shooting for the #1 spot, they just want to be truly enjoyable.

 

 

So in short, stop playing games like WoW (including WAR and Aion).

Dude, WAR actually rewarded exploration. Maybe you should start paying more attention.

 Lol if you call that rewarding exploration, you haven't played a game that had real exploration.

Rockgod99

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Devs love grind - repeating content. You can't grind exploration. Once your character has seen a place, it's explored.

I suppose you could wipe players' maps every month or so, but that would piss off a lot of people.

 

Through mechanics like randomized dungeons, random mob placement through season and time of day changes you can keep a world fresh and new to the explorer.

Ryzom does this, if you explore an area in that game and comeback the next day you could get curb stomped by a rare boss that you never saw or new aggressives will spawn so you have to learn new pathing and stuff.

 

Randomizing content both non-instanced and instanced is the future of exploration imo.

MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Rockgod99

Through mechanics like randomized dungeons, random mob placement through season and time of day changes you can keep a world fresh and new to the explorer.

Ryzom does this, if you explore and area in that game and comeback the next day you could get curb stomped by a rare bos that you never saw or new aggressives will spawn so you have to learn new pathing and stuff.

 

Randomizing content both non-instanced and instanced is the future of exploration imo.

It's an idea, but I have played single player games with randomized content and it has been unconvincing and dull.

Randomized content - especially dungeons could be excellent, IF done well. I just haven't seen it done well.

drbaltazar

op!you are right we used to get a journey to go there and back again often met opposing faction along the way or creature 30 lvl too high for us lol made it fun.but not today today if your in org you can lvl to 80 without ever being required to have done say 10 quest in goldshire or whatever!silly yep .why you think gamer call wow a multiplayer online instead of a massive multiplayer like it used to have .this is one of them.and wow numbers of hour on xfire shows they are about 50% of what they had a little over 12 month ago!its not just content getting old its easy mode move like the exemple i  give at start and countless other too many to enumerate blizzard nkows them but their aim is the casual mo gamer without loosing their mmo gamer

as we can see they are failing miserably ,the mmo love are leaving and blizzard forgot that those mmo love are those that play all year long not the casual game who will take 2 month then leave for 5 month etc!oh well the wanted to eat the pie while making it ,they got their own self to blame since gamer always said loudly to blizzard what the various issue were!

Falfeir

What happened to exploration?

normal exploration, sightseeing, without reward of some sort still exists, there is nothing to stop you to go explore

rewarded exploration, with reward of some sort, boss, drops etc ended up in player camping in the said locations, purpose killed in action, qq's formed rivers, rivers meet in oceans, rewards moved to instances.

next question

BadSpock

It's still exploring when you go to a place for the first time. I still get that rush when you see something really cool.

Just when you go back to a place for the 28th time, I'd rather speed it up a bit...

MMO_Doubter

One thing that would encourage sight-seeing would be some method in-game to show screenshots. If every player had a gallery of five shots or so, they could have a display of the places they have been, and the sights they have seen.

Rockgod99

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Rockgod99

Through mechanics like randomized dungeons, random mob placement through season and time of day changes you can keep a world fresh and new to the explorer.

Ryzom does this, if you explore and area in that game and comeback the next day you could get curb stomped by a rare bos that you never saw or new aggressives will spawn so you have to learn new pathing and stuff.

 

Randomizing content both non-instanced and instanced is the future of exploration imo.

It's an idea, but I have played single player games with randomized content and it has been unconvincing and dull.

Randomized content - especially dungeons could be excellent, IF done well. I just haven't seen it done well.

I know Mabinogi does it. You place a item from your inventory onto a alter outside a dungeon and the dungeon randomly spawns depending on the item you use.

Other than that I remember the Original Diablo having randomised dungeons and they were fun.

Im not in the game developement field so i have no idea if it would be hard to design a random dungeon feature.

I do know Ryzom has one of the best and most interesting game worlds in the genre do to random mob placements through season changes.

Quirhid

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

My answer to everything that starts with "What happened to....".

 

You're playing the wrong game.

 

 

The mainstream games are designed to do one thing only, bring in the most players that is possible. They do this by making the game widely acceptable to different types of gamers. That involves making it easy to level, easy to get around, easy to learn, and easy to be good.

 

If you want a game with substance you can't play the WoWs and Aions of the world, you have to play the real games that don't have 4 million players in them. That's because those other games are made to target a specific type of gamer and to be incredibly fun. They're not shooting for the #1 spot, they just want to be truly enjoyable.

 

 

So in short, stop playing games like WoW (including WAR and Aion).

Dude, WAR actually rewarded exploration. Maybe you should start paying more attention.

 Lol if you call that rewarding exploration, you haven't played a game that had real exploration.

I have played plenty of games that have exploration as well as claim to have exploration. Both are equally dull after the first time.

Rockgod99

 

Why do you need to be rewarded for exploration?

When I explored in older games seeing cool stuff was the reward.

MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Rockgod99

I know Mabinogi does it. You place a item from your inventory onto a alter outside a dungeon and the dungeon randomly spawns depending on the item you use.

Interesting. Is it still random if you use the same item twice, or the same?

Other than that I remember the Original Diablo having randomised dungeons and they were fun.

Yes. In my experience, Diablo did it best.

Im not in the game developement field so i have no idea if it would be hard to design a random dungeon feature.

I think the most difficult aspect would be pathing for the mobs and pets.

I am also a board gamer, and there have been many games in the twenty years or so which have either randomly-generated content, or player-generated (prior to starting or during play). Some of them have been quite enjoyable to play.

I do know Ryzom has one of the best and most interesting game worlds in the genre do to random mob placements through season changes.

Changing content by seasons is an idea more games should use. It gives the sense of a real living world, rather than one in stasis.

SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Rockgod99

 

Why do you need to be rewarded for exploration?

When I explored in older games seeing cool stuff was the reward.

 Rewarding exploration for me is when you discover quests/items/new places through exploration. I don't want to have NPCs with exclamation marks over their heads who direct me to other NPCs with exclamation points over their heads.

 

I want to be running through the game world and see a fort off in the distance. When I run up to it I want to fight my way through and find perhaps an emprisoned person or a special chest.

 

I want to find a small town that isn't on the map.

 

I want to find a destroyed place that was clearly the scene of some previous large battle, I want to be able to figure out what happened there (the lore) and perhaps find a cool weapon that was buried beneath the carnage.

 

 

I want an interesting world that I HAVE to explore to find quests/items/xp and fun. Not one that starts me in a town and then leads me by the hand through visibly marked NPCs all the way to max level.

 

I'm also not saying every game should be this way, which is why I told the OP who seemed to enjoy the same style of things to stay away from the mainstream games. The majority want it as easy as can be and for it to require no thinking in any form, so that is what the mainstream games are made for.

astrob0y

They are there. 

Vanguard, Wurm online, Eve online and Fallen earth are games that I did enjoy to explore. But I guess that these games maybe wont rub you right- so contiune to search for a game that will tickle your exploration sense

BadSpock

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Changing content by seasons is an idea more games should use. It gives the sense of a real living world, rather than one in stasis.

Of course it sounds amazing on paper.

"Let's change content by seasons, it'll give a sense of a real living world rather then one in stasis!"

You know what your producer says?

Ok, well if we do that we have to add 6 months to the development time because we now have to go back and retouch every single area and item and enemy in the game, making four different versions of each. This is going to add 10 million dollars to the budget.

Then the investors/publishers catch wind and say "No f-ing way. We've already spent 50 million dollars and have zero return on our investment. We need this game out before Q2 2010 no ifs, ands, or buts. We do not approve of this measure, we don't feel it's worth the investment in time and money."

Then the producer tells you, "This is the kind of things we can possibly add to the game once it has been released."

So once again, as with many many many things in MMOs, with unlimited time, money, and talent you could make some really awesome stuff...

But practically, the developers are 100x more likely to just make a "winter zone" and a "fall zone" to give that sense of change and save 10 million dollars and 6 months.

Doesn't mean it's right, but it's a fact.

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Rockgod99

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Rockgod99

Through mechanics like randomized dungeons, random mob placement through season and time of day changes you can keep a world fresh and new to the explorer.

Ryzom does this, if you explore and area in that game and comeback the next day you could get curb stomped by a rare bos that you never saw or new aggressives will spawn so you have to learn new pathing and stuff.

 

Randomizing content both non-instanced and instanced is the future of exploration imo.

It's an idea, but I have played single player games with randomized content and it has been unconvincing and dull.

Randomized content - especially dungeons could be excellent, IF done well. I just haven't seen it done well.

I know Mabinogi does it. You place a item from your inventory onto a alter outside a dungeon and the dungeon randomly spawns depending on the item you use.

Other than that I remember the Original Diablo having randomised dungeons and they were fun.

Im not in the game developement field so i have no idea if it would be hard to design a random dungeon feature.

I do know Ryzom has one of the best and most interesting game worlds in the genre do to random mob placements through season changes.

 That's a brilliant idea that more MMO's should use. Include weather patterns like rain or snow and day/night patterns influencing the mobs that come out, and it would be perfect. Combine it with players affecting the environment by how they finish up public quests and you would gaming bliss.

Please ArenaNet , heed our call and pick this up along with the already to-be implemented public quests, I'll be a good boy.

 

Regarding OP, yeah, it'll come back, don't you worry. Sometime, in future, in some MMO's...

Cerion

I think one of the better games out right now for exploration is Fallen Earth. Exploring can be rewarding in that game.

Also I have found EVE to be pretty decent in this regard as well, but there's a whole lot of nothin' before one is rewarded.  I remember early in my EVE career taking a small shuttle to New Eden, thinking if there would be anything truly interesting to see in EVE, this system would have it.  Nada.  Coincidentally, another player had entered the system for the very same reason. We both commented on how underwhelming the experience was before jumping away.  I guess I was relying on EVE for my Star Trek 'fix' of seeking out new life, new civilizations, and new worlds.  Instead it felt like the same system over and over and over again.

But having said that, EVE is still better for explorers than most games out there.